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pwee31
01-15-2011, 06:50 PM
http://realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/1019/20110114/problems_mount_for_hibbert/


Roy Hibbert has seen his production take a steep decline as the season has progressed.

He was a leading candidate for the Most Improved Player award after he averaged 15.6 points, 9.4 rebounds and 1.9 blocks and shot 49.1% from the field in November, but the fall has been precipitous.

In five games during the month of January, Hibbert is shooting just 37% and averaging only nine points and eight rebounds for Indiana.

Over the weekend he admitted to Mike Wells of The Indianapolis Star that he planned to seek out a sports psychologist to help with his on-court struggles. Hibbert, incredibly polite and unassuming in a profession that breeds overconfidence, has been in a funk for almost seven weeks.

“It is mental,” Hibbert told Wells. “I need to keep working to get through this.”

It’s no coincidence that the Pacers have struggled along with Hibbert.

Since Dec. 1st, Indiana is 7-13 after beginning the season 9-7.

Over that 20-game stretch, Hibbert has averaged 10.5 points, 7.1 rebounds and 1.6 blocks on 41.2% shooting. His minutes have declined slightly, but his field goal attempts have not.

He had seven double-doubles in his first 16 games, but has recorded just four in the 20 games since. Lost in his shooting woes have been his difficulty handling the basketball. Known as a deft passer for a player his size, Hibbert has turned the ball over 2.19 times a game this season, including a forgettable performance against the Wizards on Dec. 31 when he had seven turnovers.

His field goal percentage (44.6%) is even lower than it was during his rookie season (47.1%) and is lower than his career-high last season as well (49.5%).

More positively, Hibbert has maintained a PER of 16.2 (slightly above average) and his total rebounding percentage has jumped to 15.9% this season. However, his numbers are still several points lower than the league’s best rebounders and Hibbert had a 16.1 PER as a rookie.

The center’s struggles are especially disconcerting given all the work he put in this past offseason.

While his workouts with Hall of Famer Bill Walton may have been slightly overexposed, he entered the season as a completely different athlete. I use that term specifically because the once-lumbering big man now embodies the word.

In addition to an outwardly physical transformation, Hibbert put himself in a better chance to succeed by getting his exercise-induced asthma over control.

“I take an Advair twice a day, once in the morning and once again at night. In emergency situations, I have an inhaler in case I need some extra relief or anything like that -- I don’t have asthma attacks,” he told RealGM.

“I also make sure my conditioning is right. If I play fewer minutes than usual, I’ll do extra conditioning work.”

Remember those times when four Pacers would on one side of the court setting up the offense while Hibbert slowly arrive from the defensive end?

They have been all but nonexistent this season.

Unfortunately, his success in November may have induced his recent mental anguish. He was one of the league’s success stories two months ago, but he’s almost been written off at this point.

We must remember he has already overcome critics of not only his physicality but also his ability to transfer his success in college to the professional game.

Earlier in his career, Hibbert would be able to gauge his playing time based on who the Pacers were playing, but this season O’Brien has often demanded that players continue feeding the center in the post despite his struggles.

“In years past I would think that I’d be used more and less based on matchups, but this year my minutes have been more consistent,” he said.

“If I’m having a good game, I’m usually on the court a little more. It used to be that if I was playing against a smaller, quicker guy I wouldn’t be out there as much, but this year it’s simply a matter of me getting the job done.”

Hibbert hasn’t had very many good games over the last seven weeks, but the Pacers are sticking with him as they keep an eye on the future.

hoops_guy
01-15-2011, 07:19 PM
At this point I've heard enough excuses. He's just not that good. He had TWO points on 1-8 shooting last night. Pathetic.

It's been seven weeks. He either needs some serious time off, he's in a big time slump, or we need to start thinking about re-evaluating our needs.. Starting with a new center.

Peck
01-15-2011, 08:00 PM
At this point I've heard enough excuses. He's just not that good. He had TWO points on 1-8 shooting last night. Pathetic.

It's been seven weeks. He either needs some serious time off, he's in a big time slump, or we need to start thinking about re-evaluating our needs.. Starting with a new center.

You know at first when I read this I thought it might be a little harsh, but then I had a flashback to Taj Gibson pushing him off the block like he weighed 34 pounds.

After having that flashback I no longer have my first impression.

I like Roy & I really want him to get it together but right now he is just bad, really really really bad.

Worst starting center in the NBA bad maybe.

Tom White
01-15-2011, 08:34 PM
At this point I've heard enough excuses. He's just not that good. He had TWO points on 1-8 shooting last night. Pathetic.

Gee, Collison was 4-16 and Granger was 8-23, Do you think we should send them packing as well?


It's been seven weeks. He either needs some serious time off, he's in a big time slump, or we need to start thinking about re-evaluating our needs.. Starting with a new center.

Bingo with the slump comment. Sometimes things can snowball on a young player. Heck, it even happens to veteran players. Time is generally the best cure. You see it all the time in baseball. A good hitter will start a string of games where he is going 0-3, 0-4, 1-4, then he breaks back out of it. Many times there is not a good reason why, it just happens.

Kemo
01-15-2011, 08:38 PM
http://realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/1019/20110114/problems_mount_for_hibbert/

I put this and mentioned this story in another thread, but what I stated bears repeating, as I feel it is important..



I got to thinking a bit ago while watching the game..

. I was watching a commercial for Advair while flipping through the channels , and it hit me ..

I am serious..

I think there is a very good possibility that the asthma medicine that Roy takes (Advair) may be a part of his problem..at least maybe the mental aspect that we know about that he has confirmed that he believes may be the problem .. ...



He may very well be experiencing some of the side effects of taking that medication ..
I know from personal experience, that sometimes it takes a few months of being on the medication for the side effects to begin showing up...



Here are just a few of the possible side effects ..



# Breathing problems that are becoming worse
# An irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia)
# A very fast heart rate (tachycardia)
# High blood pressure (hypertension)
# High blood sugar
# Agitation, aggression, anxiety, or restlessness
# Depression
# Osteoporosis
# Eye problems, including glaucoma or cataracts
# A frequent or severe infection of any type
# Signs of an allergic reaction, including an unexplained rash, hives, itching, unexplained swelling, wheezing, or difficulty breathing or swallowing.



and that is just to name a few ..

heck, even google "advair + depression" and look for yourselves... Seems there are alot of people experiencing and writing about their bad experiences with taking it..

http://www.drugalert.org/advair/advair-side-effects.htm



I think in all seriousness , that the possibility should be explored.. Hopefully Roy reads this or someone can maybe float the possibility and concern to him..





Here is a quote from Big Roy regarding him taking the medication Advair ..

“I take an Advair twice a day, once in the morning and once again at night. In emergency situations, I have an inhaler in case I need some extra relief or anything like that -- I don’t have asthma attacks,” he told RealGM.

Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/1019/20110114/problems_mount_for_hibbert/#ixzz1B4HigPBv




What I stated as my "personal experience" , I was referring to a family member who took advair, and they had all sorts of problems on that medication.. Fell into a severe depression, was always real moody , seemed like a totally different person...

After reflecting on my memory further, I would almost bet the farm that it most certainely is contributing to his mental problems that have arisen lately..


.






.

hoops_guy
01-15-2011, 09:03 PM
Gee, Collison was 4-16 and Granger was 8-23, Do you think we should send them packing as well?



Bingo with the slump comment. Sometimes things can snowball on a young player. Heck, it even happens to veteran players. Time is generally the best cure. You see it all the time in baseball. A good hitter will start a string of games where he is going 0-3, 0-4, 1-4, then he breaks back out of it. Many times there is not a good reason why, it just happens.

With the Collison-Granger comment, the difference is that Roy has been terrible for about two months. I don't just mean horrible, I mean a disgrace.

I've never seen anything like this with a player.

Sookie
01-15-2011, 09:24 PM
*sigh*

Roy Hibbert has never had to be the "guy" and..despite Granger being our "all star" the opposing teams are chosing to stop Hibbert.

Hibbert doesn't know how to deal with it. JOB doesn't know how to adjust to it. And no one on the team has given opposing teams a reason change their game plan.

Essentially, you stop Hibbert, the Pacers then live and die on the three point shot..which means the opposing team wins.

Hibbert's improved. He has. But right now, teams are defending him so well that he can't get himself in good position (he needs to get some lower body strength) and quite frankly, he doesn't know how to be "the guy" yet.

And this isn't even touching the mental aspect of what's going on.

McKeyFan
01-15-2011, 09:26 PM
Take two aspirin, fire one coach, and call me in October.

hoops_guy
01-15-2011, 09:28 PM
*sigh*

Roy Hibbert has never had to be the "guy" and..despite Granger being our "all star" the opposing teams are chosing to stop Hibbert.

Hibbert doesn't know how to deal with it. JOB doesn't know how to adjust to it. And no one on the team has given opposing teams a reason change their game plan.

Essentially, you stop Hibbert, the Pacers then live and die on the three point shot..which means the opposing team wins.

Hibbert's improved. He has. But right now, teams are defending him so well that he can't get himself in good position (he needs to get some lower body strength) and quite frankly, he doesn't know how to be "the guy" yet.

And this isn't even touching the mental aspect of what's going on.

Not saying that I disagree with you, but does anyone have any examples of this happening in the past with other players? Just for reference.

rexnom
01-15-2011, 09:50 PM
Take two aspirin, fire one coach, and call me in October.
How can you watch Hibbert struggle and think it's Obie's fault? I just don't get it. He gets outmuscled, he takes bad shots, he misses good shots, he struggles to get good position, and on and on. I don't know what coach can fix that. I think Jim deserves kudos for putting Roy in a position to excel. Roy just hasn't been up to it. If you want to criticize Jim for anything, it's relying too much on Roy to make the offense run smoothly.

spazzxb
01-15-2011, 10:51 PM
Take two aspirin, fire one coach, and call me in October.

Its pretty easy to just blame everything on a scapegoat. It won't get you anywhere, but at least you don't need to think.

BillS
01-15-2011, 10:58 PM
...this season O’Brien has often demanded that players continue feeding the center in the post despite his struggles.

Weren't there posters on this board demanding exactly this, saying Roy would play through his mistakes?

BringJackBack
01-15-2011, 11:02 PM
Weren't there posters on this board demanding exactly this, saying Roy would play through his mistakes?

Roy Hibbert used to not suck. And not one person on this planet expected him to fall off a cliff like he has. He's pitiful now.

spazzxb
01-15-2011, 11:11 PM
Weren't there posters on this board demanding exactly this, saying Roy would play through his mistakes? alot of them

BringJackBack
01-15-2011, 11:12 PM
alot of them

Again, bringing this up is preposterous. No one expected Roy Hibbert to be this bad. Anyone after watching this team last season would say that Roy needs a lot more touches, but now he is crap.

Trophy
01-15-2011, 11:18 PM
He better see that MMA intructor again because his training has worn away.

I really hope Roy becomes a consistent top center in the league. He's a really hard worker.

spazzxb
01-15-2011, 11:22 PM
Again, bringing this up is preposterous. No one expected Roy Hibbert to be this bad. Anyone after watching this team last season would say that Roy needs a lot more touches, but now he is crap.

I am still glad we have Roy. People were complaining, and condemning Jim for him not getting enough minutes weeks ago. Highlighting this fact is not 'preposterous'. Sure it makes people look flakey but thats their fault . I still think Roy will figure it out eventually, but its kinda funny seeing people complain about Jim giving a young player get to much time to develop.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 11:31 PM
He is kinda tall.

Sookie
01-15-2011, 11:33 PM
also, Roy hasn't been bad every single game this month. His shooting percentage hasn't been good, but he's had some pretty good games, as well as some really poor games.


as I said, I'm going to hold off on my judgement on any of the young guys until I see them with a decent coach.

Brad8888
01-15-2011, 11:43 PM
He is kinda tall.

He is also kinda skinny and really easy to push around and knock off balance, and everybody knows it. Hence, he not only has problems with playing in the high post due to lack of confidence in his shot, he also is ineffective in the low post as well.

I also think that the Advair might be having the effects mentioned by earlier posters. It likely is a stimulant, as most asthma medications I have ever heard of are, and that can definitely impact a person mentally to an extent without them even realizing it.

Hopefully the trainers, psychologist, and Roy himself will work through this problem in short order.

pwee31
01-15-2011, 11:59 PM
Wow, how quickly things change

1984
01-16-2011, 08:54 AM
"It's mental"

No. It's physical. You have been getting bullied out of the post.

johndozark
01-16-2011, 09:50 AM
If depression, Advair-induced or not, is one key component of the problem, then O'Brien's critical motivational techniques are the worst possible attempted solution. Those methods work with some people, not with others. Roy is one of the others. It is time to get some medical expertise on what is causing the depression, not just a sports psychologist.

As for the physical defense that is keeping his offense off-balance and out of position, that needs some special coaching and another summer of hard work.

Roy's potential has not gone away. It has just hit a couple of barriers that must be addressed before he can move ahead to fulfill his potential.

BobbyMac
01-16-2011, 10:32 AM
It took a long (and I mean a long time) for Smits to become a quality center in the NBA. I hope Roy will do so as well, Im willing to wait another 2 years to see what happens.

BlueNGold
01-16-2011, 10:44 AM
It took a long (and I mean a long time) for Smits to become a quality center in the NBA. I hope Roy will do so as well, Im willing to wait another 2 years to see what happens.

It did take awhile. However, I don't recall Rik getting pushed around this badly. Part of this may not be strength as much as it's technique and balance. Also, Rik's game was mid range big time...and he was a much, much better shooter.

Also, I don't see Roy getting pushed around trying to defend the paint. I think he does that just fine.

righteouscool
01-16-2011, 01:46 PM
Hibberts problem is his balance. When he gets pushed while shooting it throws off his finesse shots. He needs to build lower body strength.

It would also help him a lot to dunk whenever the chance comes. He needs to be a little more nasty then he is. I think he will get it together. Some of the shots he is missing are just bad luck.

Hicks
01-16-2011, 02:09 PM
"It's mental"

No. It's physical. You have been getting bullied out of the post.

It's not that simple. He's now missing shots he used to be able to hit.

xIndyFan
01-16-2011, 02:22 PM
It's not that simple. He's now missing shots he used to be able to hit.

except he is being defended much more physically when taking those shots now than at the beginning of the season.

the NBA is a grown man's league, a physical league, and roy needs to get used to it and learn to deal with it. do a better job of getting position and holding it, expecting the physical play and getting the shot off anyway.

anytime you get manhandled by taj gibson, it is time to grow a pair and fight back.

McKeyFan
01-16-2011, 02:32 PM
It's not that simple. He's now missing shots he used to be able to hit.
Agreed. It's largely mental. And JOB is largely responsible.

Hicks
01-16-2011, 03:15 PM
except he is being defended much more physically when taking those shots now than at the beginning of the season.

the NBA is a grown man's league, a physical league, and roy needs to get used to it and learn to deal with it. do a better job of getting position and holding it, expecting the physical play and getting the shot off anyway.

anytime you get manhandled by taj gibson, it is time to grow a pair and fight back.

Sometimes it's that, but sometimes it's not. The latter is mental.

flox
01-16-2011, 04:05 PM
I am very very confused as to why O'Brien is sticking with this. I wouldn't.

I still don't see what O'Brien sees in Hibbert. But I guess we really don't have any other options other than turning the keys over to Collison, which I guess we are doing right now.

Doddage
01-16-2011, 04:12 PM
Weren't there posters on this board demanding exactly this, saying Roy would play through his mistakes?
Yep, they're still here. As long as this is happening, it's fine, but I don't want Roy to be shooting low-percentage jumpers. Or any plays drawn up that result in that, for that matter. It sucks that Roy's slumping offensively everywhere on the floor, but we can't give up on him. Not when we've seen him play at a better level before.

spazzxb
01-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Agreed. It's largely mental. And JOB is largely responsible.

Would you mind explaining how?

SMosley21
01-16-2011, 04:40 PM
I think people put too high of expectations on Hibbert and now they're extremely let down. The guy was the 17th pick in the draft and before this season didn't show that he was much more than a decent big man who had nice hook shot and a semi-reliable jump shot out to 15 feet, who wasn't a great rebounder and could block shots reasonably well. Considering we have no other real option at the 5, people just assumed Hibbert was going to be THE man. I still think he's going to come out of his funk, but I don't think that he's an All-Star caliber big man like a lot of people want to believe.

McKeyFan
01-16-2011, 05:41 PM
Would you mind explaining how?
Briefly, sure. It's been expounded on ad infinitum.

JOB puts veterans on a long leash and youngsters on a short leash.

When Danny misses five in a row, or even Dun or Posey, they are not looking over their shoulder. They have the security and confidence to work through their slump.

Roy doesn't get that. Instead, he starts to worry that the next miss means he only gets 20 minutes in that particular game or he doesn't see the floor the last five minutes of the game. It causes him to panic a bit, rush his shots, focus on not making a mistake rather than achieving a success. Success breeds success and failure breeds failure.

Danny gets to have ups and downs in his shooting. Roy doesn't. This short leash has got into his head and won't end until JOB can actually let him play bad for three or four games in a row (like Danny gets to do) or until JOB gets fired.

rexnom
01-16-2011, 05:51 PM
Briefly, sure. It's been expounded on ad infinitum.

JOB puts veterans on a long leash and youngsters on a short leash.

When Danny misses five in a row, or even Dun or Posey, they are not looking over their shoulder. They have the security and confidence to work through their slump.

Roy doesn't get that. Instead, he starts to worry that the next miss means he only gets 20 minutes in that particular game or he doesn't see the floor the last five minutes of the game. It causes him to panic a bit, rush his shots, focus on not making a mistake rather than achieving a success. Success breeds success and failure breeds failure.

Danny gets to have ups and downs in his shooting. Roy doesn't. This short leash has got into his head and won't end until JOB can actually let him play bad for three or four games in a row (like Danny gets to do) or until JOB gets fired.
Come on now. Roy has been getting too long of a leash this season. Sometimes to the detriment of the team. Most recently, Roy (with Danny's help) shot us out of the Spurs game.

Pacersalltheway10
01-16-2011, 05:58 PM
everytime a player goes into a slump people on here are calling to trade him or replace him . it's just stupid to trade Hibbert right now. Give him some time to bulk up more and develop his lower body this offseason. I dont know of a harder worker than hibbert. Does this season even matter much anyway? If we make the playoffs we are most likely going to get ousted in the first round. This young core needs time to develop both as a team and individually.

Pacersalltheway10
01-16-2011, 06:18 PM
Any chance Bill Walton would be interested in a position on the pacers such as big man coach? I'm sure Larry would approve considering the Celtic relation. I think he would be great with Hibbert season long.

McKeyFan
01-16-2011, 06:20 PM
Come on now. Roy has been getting too long of a leash this season. Sometimes to the detriment of the team. Most recently, Roy (with Danny's help) shot us out of the Spurs game.
That's one game.

Did he get to do it three or four games? Danny does. No, Roy gets benched early.

flox
01-16-2011, 06:22 PM
That's one game.

Did he get to do it three or four games? Danny does. No, Roy gets benched early.

Because Danny is the offense. Without him we'd be the worst team in the NBA.

pacer4ever
01-16-2011, 06:23 PM
Any chance Bill Walton would be interested in a position on the pacers such as big man coach? I'm sure Larry would approve considering the Celtic relation. I think he would be great with Hibbert season long.

No, he has a good gig doing broadcasting.

Pacersalltheway10
01-16-2011, 06:38 PM
]Wouldn't hurt to reach out to him though. But yeah he probably wouldn't give up broadcasting.

BlueNGold
01-16-2011, 07:07 PM
I am very very confused as to why O'Brien is sticking with this. I wouldn't.

I still don't see what O'Brien sees in Hibbert. But I guess we really don't have any other options other than turning the keys over to Collison, which I guess we are doing right now.

Jim is not sticking with Roy. He's cut Roy's minutes down from around 29 to 20. ...and increased Jeff's from about 16 to 23mpg. Jeff is basically eating into Roy's minutes because Jeff can execute the offense. The only alternative to Roy is Solo who doesn't play any better.

...and I have no argument with that decision. As long as Jim is the coach, which I hope is not long, Roy is not a good fit for Jim's system. Not saying Roy is going to be an all-star when Jim leaves either...but the jury is in. Jeff Foster is the better option at C in Jim's system.

russkiy
01-16-2011, 07:33 PM
I agree. Roy is not playing well since November, but anyone remember him last year. He was slow and played only 15-20 minutes a game because foul problems. Look at him now. I think Pacers is trying too hard to run their offence through Roy. He need to shoot from outside and then his post up play will open up. In the begging of the year he shot the ball from outside pretty well. This way the lanes opened up for other players to drive and shot blockers had to step away to respect his 10 feet jump shot.

Trophy
01-16-2011, 07:39 PM
I think he's gonna get better than he is now as the season continues.

pacer4ever
01-16-2011, 07:48 PM
I think he's gonna get better than he is now as the season continues.

I would hope so how much worse good he get??

spazzxb
01-16-2011, 07:51 PM
Thanks for giving some insight into your point of view. I don't think Roy playing poorly for 35 minutes would be any good for Roy. When roy plays poorly he gets down on himself and it would seem to have a snowball effect. I do not believe minutes are what gets to him . Roy feels bad for playing poorly and gets anxious. He forces shots and takes off balance shots he shouldn't. Getting muscled around in the post has been an issue all season even when we were winning. Teams know how important he was to our offense and he gets a lot of attention. this is all new for Roy and is just part of the growing process. I think he will figure it out eventually but I am 100% certain roy is more worried about playing well than how many minutes he sees on a given night.

Briefly, sure. It's been expounded on ad infinitum.

JOB puts veterans on a long leash and youngsters on a short leash.

When Danny misses five in a row, or even Dun or Posey, they are not looking over their shoulder. They have the security and confidence to work through their slump.

Roy doesn't get that. Instead, he starts to worry that the next miss means he only gets 20 minutes in that particular game or he doesn't see the floor the last five minutes of the game. It causes him to panic a bit, rush his shots, focus on not making a mistake rather than achieving a success. Success breeds success and failure breeds failure.

Danny gets to have ups and downs in his shooting. Roy doesn't. This short leash has got into his head and won't end until JOB can actually let him play bad for three or four games in a row (like Danny gets to do) or until JOB gets fired.

McKeyFan
01-16-2011, 08:24 PM
Because Danny is the offense. Without him we'd be the worst team in the NBA.
Our offense currently sucks. Back in November we had an offense people were talking about —when Danny AND Roy were the offense.

flox
01-16-2011, 10:27 PM
Our offense currently sucks. Back in November we had an offense people were talking about —when Danny AND Roy were the offense.

At least Danny isn't as easy to shut down as Hibbert is. That's more of a testament to how far away Danny is from Hibbert offensively rather than anything else

Pacersalltheway10
01-16-2011, 10:47 PM
I agree. Roy is not playing well since November, but anyone remember him last year. He was slow and played only 15-20 minutes a game because foul problems. Look at him now. I think Pacers is trying too hard to run their offence through Roy. He need to shoot from outside and then his post up play will open up. In the begging of the year he shot the ball from outside pretty well. This way the lanes opened up for other players to drive and shot blockers had to step away to respect his 10 feet jump shot.

I agree, We should run the offence through Collison more and not Hibbert right now. It almost seems like JOB is setting roy up for failure by trying to hard to run the offence through him.

BlueNGold
01-16-2011, 10:47 PM
Our offense currently sucks. Back in November we had an offense people were talking about —when Danny AND Roy were the offense.

Yes it does. When you have no viable post presence...as Jim might appreciate...it hurts your spacing. It puts a lot more pressure on your perimeter shooters and clogs the lanes making it more difficult to pass and impossible to rotate the defense.

We were good in November because Roy was effective. Teams saw this and made adjustments...specifically by putting a body on Roy. Now it's time for Jim and Roy to make the needed adjustments.

The problem is, Jim does not make adjustments to his system. He instead attempts to find the right mix of players for the system...plugging in anybody including Solo and Posey. Finally he found a decent match with Foster who can both defend and run his offense better. That's why Jeff is seeing his minutes increase and don't expect that to change as long as he's healthy.

So as long as we run this motion offense, Roy will not perform very well. He needs to play in an offense similar to Smits where crisp passes and skill at running plays is the priority. This type of offense fit Tony Battie fine, but not less athletic centers. Not saying Roy is that good...but I suspect Smits would struggle in a motion offense like this too. He'd have a very difficult time getting back on defense as well. But setting up his shots (and Reggie's) involved crisp passes that are always going to be more accurate and efficient than when everyone is moving.

That's why the Pacers back in the day were good. They were less athletic than nearly everyone...but they were good because the strategy fit the personnel.

rexnom
01-16-2011, 10:51 PM
The reason our offense dragged isn't because Jim stopped playing or using Roy. It's because Roy stopped being as effective as he was and because teams adjusted to Roy. This happens every time a new player breaks out or is used in a new way.

Pacer in Your Face
01-16-2011, 10:52 PM
HIbbit gets shut down ans stopped to frequently.
He needs to get more physical.

flox
01-16-2011, 11:19 PM
Yes it does. When you have no viable post presence...as Jim might appreciate...it hurts your spacing. It puts a lot more pressure on your perimeter shooters and clogs the lanes making it more difficult to pass and impossible to rotate the defense.

We were good in November because Roy was effective. Teams saw this and made adjustments...specifically by putting a body on Roy. Now it's time for Jim and Roy to make the needed adjustments.

The problem is, Jim does not make adjustments to his system. He instead attempts to find the right mix of players for the system...plugging in anybody including Solo and Posey. Finally he found a decent match with Foster who can both defend and run his offense better. That's why Jeff is seeing his minutes increase and don't expect that to change as long as he's healthy.

So as long as we run this motion offense, Roy will not perform very well. He needs to play in an offense similar to Smits where crisp passes and skill at running plays is the priority. This type of offense fit Tony Battie fine, but not less athletic centers. Not saying Roy is that good...but I suspect Smits would struggle in a motion offense like this too. He'd have a very difficult time getting back on defense as well. But setting up his shots (and Reggie's) involved crisp passes that are always going to be more accurate and efficient than when everyone is moving.

That's why the Pacers back in the day were good. They were less athletic than nearly everyone...but they were good because the strategy fit the personnel.

I read a piece earlier by the year made by count that basically disagrees with this assessment, and I found myself agreeing more with count.

I think we designed the offense for Roy and Danny, and then the defense around protecting our weaknesses of certain players (Roy's speed).

On offense we've been pushing Roy out of the space where he operates the best. If we consider that there is probably a mandate to develop Roy and to continue to give him touches- we can't scrap the current offense midseason and try to rebuild an offense for Granger, Roy and Collison.

Instead what we've done is to take the pressure off of Granger and Roy by letting Collison freelance- and putting in better players that fits Collison's style (Foster, Hans, George, Granger to the four- reducing Posey, McRoberts, and Jones).

I think this is about as best as we can do right now.

MagicRat
01-16-2011, 11:39 PM
Straight downhill since he almost airballed the potential game winner in Milwaukee. Hopefully he gets his mind right.

spazzxb
01-16-2011, 11:42 PM
HIbbit gets shut down ans stopped to frequently.
He needs to get more physical.
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LA_Confidential
01-17-2011, 12:58 AM
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:spit: Thank You! :rotflmao:

rexnom
01-17-2011, 01:58 AM
"There's nothing left to talk about unless it's horizontally."

PacersPride
01-17-2011, 04:19 AM
HIBBS is young, let the man mature. he will be good in this league.

BlueNGold
01-17-2011, 01:30 PM
I read a piece earlier by the year made by count that basically disagrees with this assessment, and I found myself agreeing more with count.

I think we designed the offense for Roy and Danny, and then the defense around protecting our weaknesses of certain players (Roy's speed).

On offense we've been pushing Roy out of the space where he operates the best. If we consider that there is probably a mandate to develop Roy and to continue to give him touches- we can't scrap the current offense midseason and try to rebuild an offense for Granger, Roy and Collison.

Instead what we've done is to take the pressure off of Granger and Roy by letting Collison freelance- and putting in better players that fits Collison's style (Foster, Hans, George, Granger to the four- reducing Posey, McRoberts, and Jones).

I think this is about as best as we can do right now.

If this offense is designed for Roy Hibbert, we are really in a world of hurt.

I don't believe he's that bad. He's just inexperienced and has not been able to regain his confidence after attempting to operate in Jim's read and react, motion offense in December. No, I don't think this system is a good fit for him. I have very little doubt that 100% set plays are best for the unathletic, but skilled player.

Pacergeek
01-17-2011, 02:03 PM
what was up with his air ball during the Bucks game? that was pretty sad. perhaps that was the beginning of the end for Roy's season. I'm sorry, but a "slump" can only be considered a slump for so long until poor play becomes a "trend." 1-8 aginst Chicago suggests that the poor play will be around the rest of the season. Maybe next season Roy will "figure it out."

By the way, i find it humorous that Roy is allowed to play terrible, yet if Troy Murphy had a 1-8 game, posters would be calling for his head. I just wish that posters would be more consistent with their criticisms.

naptownmenace
01-17-2011, 02:07 PM
except he is being defended much more physically when taking those shots now than at the beginning of the season.

the NBA is a grown man's league, a physical league, and roy needs to get used to it and learn to deal with it. do a better job of getting position and holding it, expecting the physical play and getting the shot off anyway.

anytime you get manhandled by taj gibson, it is time to grow a pair and fight back.

Teams have adjusted for him but I think he will adjust. Also, the inconsistency around him certainly doesn't help. Granger, Collison, Rush, and Dunleavy have been up and down with their play as well. Teams can double him and force others to shoot and when those others don't hit open shots, it makes it that much harder for Hibbert.

Still, he needs to focus on rebounding and blocking shots. If he starts hitting the offensive boards hard like he was earlier this season, good things will begin to happen on the offensive end.

Sookie
01-17-2011, 02:13 PM
what was up with his air ball during the Bucks game? that was pretty sad. perhaps that was the beginning of the end for Roy's season. I'm sorry, but a "slump" can only be considered a slump for so long until poor play becomes a "trend." 1-8 aginst Chicago suggests that the poor play will be around the rest of the season. Maybe next season Roy will "figure it out."

By the way, i find it humorous that Roy is allowed to play terrible, yet if Troy Murphy had a 1-8 game, posters would be calling for his head. I just wish that posters would be more consistent with their criticisms.

It's because one is about 23 and part of our future, and the other is not..