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PacerHound
01-15-2011, 11:40 AM
Mike Well's cannot figure out what is a matter with the fans in Indy.
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2011/01/15/the-bulls-played-a-home-game-at-conseco/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2011/01/15/the-bulls-played-a-home-game-at-conseco/)
Has he considered anger? If you feel you can give him an answer go to it.

hoops_guy
01-15-2011, 11:47 AM
Who is Anthony Holds?

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 11:51 AM
Who is Anthony Holds?

Probably just a fan who tweeted Wells. Mike frequently replies to and retweets fans during and after games.

Major Cold
01-15-2011, 11:53 AM
I could not agree more. Same with IU fans as well.

hoops_guy
01-15-2011, 11:54 AM
I understand Mike Wells' point, but the fans buy the tickets. They don't have to be all rowdy if they don't want to. The fan base's mood has been so deflated for so long I wouldn't really expect the crowd to be all cheerful until we actually get something done that is worth notice.

Trophy
01-15-2011, 11:54 AM
Again, I wouldn't take this personally. Those bandwagon Lakers and Celtics fans take over every team's arena.

The Bulls are very good and probably have Jordan fans and Chicago is not far away from Indy.

I'm very much like the Bulls fans that came into the Fieldhouse last night on the road to see the Pacers. I boo at the home team and I cheer my head off for the Pacers.

The Pacers can get respect and actually have a home court advantage if they started winning more.

I mean it's still basketball and I'm sure no one in Indy wants to go watch bad basketball or any of their teams suck and in nearly every city, people want to see their teams win.

If the Pacers were still playing like they were earlier this season, more of our own fans would be at the games and the attendance would be higher.

I don't live in Indy, but if a basketball team, especially their NBA Pacers team is doing well, they'd go out to more games and more often. Especially since we play in one of the nicest arenas out there.

Kegboy
01-15-2011, 11:55 AM
A number of fans are unhappy with coach Jim O’Brien, but why should that stop you from supporting a team that’s cleaned up its image and stayed away from trouble for the most part.


Well, considering watching Jimmy's system makes my eyes bleed, I'd just as soon not pay money for that. That's just me, though.

Seriously, sooner or later all sports journalists get so accustomed to the free access and the free food they forget that everybody else has to pay a great deal of money just to show up.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 11:57 AM
The Bulls have always had good turnouts from their fans here at Conseco, but last night was absolutely ridiculous. The ratio had to be 3:1, Bulls fans to Pacers fans. My girl and I were sitting in section 15, row 9 and literally EVERYONE around us was wearing Chicago apparel.

BobbyMac
01-15-2011, 11:58 AM
A large part of the blame is the adversarial nature of the coverage from the Star. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

vnzla81
01-15-2011, 12:11 PM
A large part of the blame is the adversarial nature of the coverage from the Star. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Yeah the Indy Star is the problem, shame on you Mike Wells and Indy Star if it wasn't for you we could be in 1st place.....

Hicks
01-15-2011, 12:15 PM
A large part of the blame is the adversarial nature of the coverage from the Star. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

You can't seriously be blaming the attendance on the Indianapolis Star.

You'll get no argument from me that Wells does little to nothing when it comes to trying to stir up positive feelings towards the team, but he's not 'out to get them', either, and frankly they haven't deserved a whole hell of a lot in the praise department in years when the topic of discussion is product on the floor.

Hicks
01-15-2011, 12:21 PM
Anyway, the attendance thing is a problem, but it's not that shocking.

Indiana has always been more into its school sports (college and high school) than it's pro teams, and this past decade the Pacers got hit especially hard because first they're the center of a hyper-publicized brawl in Detroit, then their modern legend, Reggie Miller, retired, then the winning stopped, the team got bad, the players (generically) developed a ****ty reputation (one that still hasn't been washed away, even though it ought to be by now), the winning STILL hasn't come back 5 years later, and right now not many people care for what they're looking at ON THE FLOOR when they pay to show up.

Or it's just that mean old Mike Wells...

Speed
01-15-2011, 12:23 PM
Get a better product. Build it and they will come.

I mean, do you still go to a restaurant if the food is crappy for 4 years in a row....

Not being callous, but its a dumb question.

vnzla81
01-15-2011, 12:35 PM
I also think is an stupid question, how you expect people to go to the fieldhouse to watch Posey,TJ,Foster and Dunleavy? How you expect people to pay for tickets when you have a clown as a coach?

If I knew I was going to see the young guys play I might pay for tickets but with Jim you never know who is going to play, if I get a ticket to go see Hansbrough and I get to see Posey instead I wouldn't go back.

d_c
01-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Anyway, the attendance thing is a problem, but it's not that shocking.

Indiana has always been more into its school sports (college and high school) than it's pro teams

That is true. Some areas are college/HS sports towns and some places are pro sports towns.

Charlotte is another franchise in a big basketball state that has had problems building a fanbase as a pro team in a place that is all about ACC basketball.

On the flipside, the Stanford football team was ranked in the Top 10 this year and made the Orange Bowl. They had a guy 2nd in the Heisman Trophy race and, barring injury, will be the #1 pick in the draft next year. They're located in a metropolitan area of about 7 million people. All that yet they consistently fell 10,000 people short of filling a 50,000 seat stadium on Saturdays. That would be absolutely unfathomable at a Big 10 or SEC school. It's just that the Bay Area is more about it's pro sports teams and always has been.

BringJackBack
01-15-2011, 01:08 PM
Blame shouldn't go to the fans that have been going to the games for the past couple years (if anything they should be getting applauded for being loyal through a crappy time)... Blame should go to the product on the floor for not being good enough to pay money for.

D-BONE
01-15-2011, 01:25 PM
I've gone consistently for 20 + years. When we were good and the place(s) was/were alive, I got loud. Now, it's significant effort for me to shell out the $ and just go the last 5 years or so. Let Wells get up and yell if he's so inclined.

Give us something worth shouting about and we'll do it. And attendance will follow suit. Coaching is questionable at best and the effort versus Chicago did not make me feel like cheering them on one iota.

Chitown fans are here giving the standing O b/c they have a contender. Where was the standing O in Indy in the post-Jordan rebuilding suck area?

EDIT: And when/if we're a contender again, I'll gladly go up and give our guys a standing O in the United Center. Just like I've done for the Colts in the recent past in Chicago and Cincy.

Mackey_Rose
01-15-2011, 02:07 PM
A large part of the blame is the adversarial nature of the coverage from the Star. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

You are constantly complaining about Mike Wells, Bob Kravitz, and the Star in general. It isn't their fault the team has sucked for several years. The Star deserves absolutely none of the blame for the Pacers' situation.

Wells is a very good beat writer. It isn't his job to be a fan. It is his job to be a reporter. Kravitz is one of the better columnists in the country. Again, it isn't his job to be a fan. It is his job to voice his opinions. We are lucky, in a market like Indianapolis, to have them both.

The fact that you get all butt-hurt every time something negative gets written about your favorite team, says a lot more about you, than it does about Wells, Kravitz, or the Star.

BlueNGold
01-15-2011, 02:13 PM
Wells and others still don't get it.

Wells needs to blame Pacer management for acquiring problem players like Tinsley, Jackson, Artest, Shawne Williams, David Harrison, etc.

They are why the team crashed and burned and turned off the fan base in the process.

Business interests and a nice chunk of the general public are still embarrassed to be associated with the Pacers. I know business people who will not take their clients to games simply because of the reputation.

Sorry, but it will take winning to shake it.

Dr. Awesome
01-15-2011, 02:21 PM
I'm not mad and certainly don't think others still care about that era. It ended bad, but at least we were winning. I'd give anything to be back to the point where we were a threat to make the finals every year, even if it meant taking on bad eggs.

I think most people have forgotten about that, now its about this coach. I feel like Jim O'Brien has screwed our team far more than O'Neal, Tinsley, or Jackson ever did - maybe not Artest, but O'Brien has instilled bad habits in our players that could potentially continue throughout their careers(DG being a chucker, ect.).

ZepZach
01-15-2011, 02:21 PM
It was annoying seeing all of the Bulls fans there, but not all that surprising. I just have to remember the ovation the team got at the end of the Mavs game. People still care. I feel like, and I know the front office agrees, a playoff berth would make a HUGE difference. I get the sense fans are waiting for something to happen before they decide to jump back on the wagon. I would bet the city would get behind the team heavily in the playoffs.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 02:32 PM
Wells and others still don't get it.

Wells needs to blame Pacer management for acquiring problem players like Tinsley, Jackson, Artest, Shawne Williams, David Harrison, etc.

They are why the team crashed and burned and turned off the fan base in the process.

Business interests and a nice chunk of the general public are still embarrassed to be associated with the Pacers. I know business people who will not take their clients to games simply because of the reputation.

Sorry, but it will take winning to shake it.

Those players are also why we were winning ball games during those years after our beloved core from the 90's all split.

dlewyus
01-15-2011, 02:50 PM
Fans in Indiana know bad basketball when they see it and they have no interest in watching the game played so poorly. Most of the fans that are left for the Pacers are looking for a glimmer of hope. I, for one, do see some hope. I don't know if others do or not. It's that hope that makes us clammer to see the young players play. Mediocrity is just so boring, especially from veteran journeymen players.

will567
01-15-2011, 02:52 PM
The Pacers are just not a fun team to watch. Watching the Pacers is like watching a shoot around. They shoot a lot of jump shots. With Josh out of the line up and now out of the rotation I find it even harder to watch them. I went to the home opener and when Josh threw the ball down the crowd went crazy. People go to games to see amazing athletes do amazing things and that includes dunks. It makes me sick to see them turning Paul into a jump shooting wing. He will never reach his potential if he always looks for the 3 first. The pacers are a boring team playing old guys and putting the clamps on the young players. This is the same thing we have seen before and who likes watching reruns over and over again.

Justin Tyme
01-15-2011, 02:53 PM
I mean, do you still go to a restaurant if the food is crappy for 4 years in a row....


We have all gone to a restaurant and said for whatever reason we'd not go back. Then one day you see a sign out front saying "under new management." There is a reason it's under new management. You give it another try, and if you don't see any difference you don't go back. Later you see a sign building for rent.

If another restaurant goes in business in the building, it is twice as hard to draw people b/c of the bad reputation/stigmatism of the former restaurant.

joeyd
01-15-2011, 03:15 PM
The Pacers are just not a fun team to watch. Watching the Pacers is like watching a shoot around. They shoot a lot of jump shots. With Josh out of the line up and now out of the rotation I find it even harder to watch them. I went to the home opener and when Josh threw the ball down the crowd went crazy. People go to games to see amazing athletes do amazing things and that includes dunks. It makes me sick to see them turning Paul into a jump shooting wing. He will never reach his potential if he always looks for the 3 first. The pacers are a boring team playing old guys and putting the clamps on the young players. This is the same thing we have seen before and who likes watching reruns over and over again.

Disagree. There is more to playing b-ball than dunks. I would also get bored watching the young guys get blown out by 20 points every night. It's different if you have a team full of Rose-like players. Some of our young guys may never be starting material anywhere, including possibly Hibbert if he doesn't find his game soon. The one thing I find as a positive about JOB is he is starting to play George and Collison more. No one can argue that Foster is not deserving of his 20-25 min per game. Sorry but that old guy can still play. Posey on the other hand, I could do without. But would not make a blanket statement about playing the veterans when they are sometimes the only players keeping us from being blown out.

joeyd
01-15-2011, 03:18 PM
Get a better product. Build it and they will come.
I mean, do you still go to a restaurant if the food is crappy for 4 years in a row....

I hear what you are saying, but perhaps the analogy isn't quite the best here. It's different if you are talking about the only restaurant in town. If the food is palatable, there are reasons that people might continue going. Plus, the whole experience may not be crappy, maybe just the main course.

The game itself is only part of the reason I go to games. If it was, I'd watch more games at home

cdash
01-15-2011, 03:19 PM
I could not agree more. Same with IU fans as well.

Wait...what?

Pacers13Colts12
01-15-2011, 03:39 PM
I find it disheartening to see Bulls, Laker, Celtic fans at our games. I don't know what management is thinking honestly. Has anyone looked at the face value of ticket prices? I know you can get them cheap off stubhub, but for them to honestly think someone is going to spend $99 dollars for mid level tickets is beyond crazy. Our talent level is honestly so poor right now, along with our coaching. Danny Granger couldn't even take Kyle Korver off the dribble. I don't know if 1 player on our team would start for the Bulls. I don't know that Danny is much better than Deng. They were without there 2nd best player (Noah) and they still crushed us.

We have had the same coach for 4 years now, and we haven't had 1 season with a winning record. Yet we ran Carlisle out of town when he won with Reggie Miller and YMCA players. I find our decision making so bad. I go to probably 7-8 games a year, yet last night was the first time I was seriously questioning why I go to games. It's depressing to see our team this way. I feel maybe fans would come to the games more if it wasn't the Dunleavy and Ford show. Play the young guys and maybe fans will get behind this team a little bit more. I wouldn't be as depressed if we were playing Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison, Paul George, Tyler, AJ Price, Danny Granger, Josh McRoberts, and Brandon Rush heavy heavy minutes and letting the vets sit on the bench. It's obvious we aren't going to win with Dunleavy, nobody has since he has been in the league.

xIndyFan
01-15-2011, 03:43 PM
I understand Mike Wells' point, but the fans buy the tickets. They don't have to be all rowdy if they don't want to. The fan base's mood has been so deflated for so long I wouldn't really expect the crowd to be all cheerful until we actually get something done that is worth notice.


I've gone consistently for 20 + years. When we were good and the place(s) was/were alive, .

basically this. i too have been a season ticket holder since the mid-80's. and still get a thrill from watching the ric smits shot under tree rollins. but i do not have an emotional investment in this team unless they are playing well.

not sure i can explain but i will try. the pacers have lost 5 of 8 games since the ron artest fiasco. when i go to the games and wear your heart on your sleeve, you go home mad and the rest of your day is ruined. when your team sucks, you learn to go to the go and watch the game, enjoy the play, cheer for the good play, but only on a surface level. you care, but you don't care really. when the game is over and the pacers play the way they did against chicago, you just kinda shrug your shoulders and say well that sucks, what's for dinner? when you have a good team like the late '90's teams or the early 2000's teams, you make more of an emotional investment in the team, you tend to live and die with the team. you are less rational and more emotional about them. that level of emotion will come again, but after the team starts winning.

will567
01-15-2011, 03:58 PM
Disagree. There is more to playing b-ball than dunks. I would also get bored watching the young guys get blown out by 20 points every night. It's different if you have a team full of Rose-like players. Some of our young guys may never be starting material anywhere, including possibly Hibbert if he doesn't find his game soon. The one thing I find as a positive about JOB is he is starting to play George and Collison more. No one can argue that Foster is not deserving of his 20-25 min per game. Sorry but that old guy can still play. Posey on the other hand, I could do without. But would not make a blanket statement about playing the veterans when they are sometimes the only players keeping us from being blown out.

The article is about attendance and what I was saying is that the Pacers are a boring jump shooting team and that a monster dunk can make things more exciting and that people respond to that. Not that dunking was the only thing. Also if you look at the last 10 games we have lost by 14,12,14,6,3,15,13 with only 3 wins. We are loosing by wide margins already. I say if that is what we get playing the vets lets take the reigns off the young guys let them play and see what we got.

Peck
01-15-2011, 04:06 PM
The article is about attendance and what I was saying is that the Pacers are a boring jump shooting team and that a monster dunk can make things more exciting and that people respond to that. Not that dunking was the only thing. Also if you look at the last 10 games we have lost by 14,12,14,6,3,15,13 with only 3 wins. We are loosing by wide margins already. I say if that is what we get playing the vets lets take the reigns off the young guys let them play and see what we got.

That is a damning statistic right there.

I just don't feel up to it right now but if I did I could go into the old argument that most of us have with BillS about playing to win right now vs playing to build something, but frankly I just don't feel up to it.

Sadly my level of excitement for this season is waning and to be honest with you if we go past the trade deadline and just let our expirings walk I can say that I will be really down about the immediate future as well.

brewpopps
01-15-2011, 04:26 PM
To me, it's simple and has been hinted around here.
Uneven and inconsistent coaching leads to uneven and inconsistent leadership which is reflected in the play of the team.
Wells knows the local fans are simply exhausted with what we have witnessed this season after the previous three. He's only stirring it up a bit.

Lord Helmet
01-15-2011, 04:37 PM
If the Pacers didn't blow ***, we'd have better attendance.

It comes down to winning. This team has been horrible for 5+ years now.

Win and you'll see more Pacers fans.

Example A: Indianapolis Colts

BlueNGold
01-15-2011, 05:08 PM
Those players are also why we were winning ball games during those years after our beloved core from the 90's all split.

True, but it clearly came at way too high of a price.

Those players are why Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy became Pacers...and Britton Johnson even wore a Pacer uniform.

The only bigger disgrace is that Pacer management acquired them.

grace
01-15-2011, 06:24 PM
I find it disheartening to see Bulls, Laker, Celtic fans at our games.

That's been going on since the Pacers joined the NBA. Considering that I hear the organization has screwed around with introductions to decrease the chance of JOB getting booed I'd say they're just glad to have the money that comes with an occupied seat.

As for making the playoffs making a difference in attendance I don't see it making that big a change. Back when the team was making the playoffs the first round was rarely sold out...people were waiting for the second round before they'd show up (and not cheer...but that's a whole other issue).

Unclebuck
01-15-2011, 11:41 PM
I mean, do you still go to a restaurant if the food is crappy for 4 years in a row....




That IMO is a bad analogy. How many different restaurants are there. How many different restaurants of a certain type of food are there. But if you want to see NBA basketball in person in the Indy area you have no other choice but to go to a pacers game. Plus how do you judge bad basketball. Take the surs game, that was very good ball that game even though the pacers lost.


Sorry, don't have time to finish my thought

graphic-er
01-16-2011, 01:45 AM
As I said in my comments, its comes down to the fact that people in Indiana know good basketball and JOB and his system just doesn't even pass the eye test. This is not like LA where the Lakers games and Clipper games are a social gathering of who's who. People come to see good basketball, and any casual fan can see that OBrien's system is severely flawed, and worse yet they've had 3 years to see it.

Its going to take Bird doing the one thing he has no desire to do and thats coach this team for the rest of the season. Herb Simon doesn't have the balls to tell him to suit up or ship out.

aaronb
01-16-2011, 12:21 PM
Get a better product. Build it and they will come.

I mean, do you still go to a restaurant if the food is crappy for 4 years in a row....

Not being callous, but its a dumb question.

Or 6 years for that matter?

Scot Pollard
01-16-2011, 12:29 PM
i mean indy is still the basketball capital and the attendance is low because people dont want to see bad basketball

people do love the pacers and here in indy but dont want to spend money to see bad basketball

the 2007-2008 season was just disgusting and i only went to like 10 games that season

the pacers were dead last in attendance and averaged like 12000

ill admit that we've seen an increase because people are aware that we are a young and improved team and 12000 is typically what we see during the week

if the pacers were still playing like they were in november the attendance would probably average at least 15000 because that team is hands down going to the playoffs

lets put it this way its almost guaranteed that if the pacers win more games the attendance will be higher

a good team playing in conseco fieldhouse in the basketball capital...cant ask for much more

so it comes down to the pacers themselves they need to earn their large home crowds