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vnzla81
01-14-2011, 09:23 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6023466&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines


Sources: N.Y. dealing Anthony Randolph

The New York Knicks will trade Anthony Randolph for a first-round draft pick within the next two weeks, according to league sources.


Minnesota, Indiana and Portland are among the likeliest destinations.




A. Randolph


The Knicks' ideal scenario is to use the first-round pick they acquire for Randolph in a package for Denver's Carmelo Anthony. But the Randolph trade is not completely related to New York's pursuit of Anthony.


While the Nuggets and New Jersey Nets continue to discuss a possible three-team trade with the Detroit Pistons that would make Anthony a Net, the Knicks are seeking teams that might help them sweeten a potential offer to Denver.


The Knicks reached out to Memphis recently to discuss sending O.J. Mayo to Denver, but the Nuggets have made it known that they have no interest in Mayo.


Sources with knowledge of the Nuggets and Nets discussions said the two clubs have yet to reach an agreement in principle, and that talks are likely to drag out over the next week or so.


Anthony's willingness to go to New Jersey is a key holdup of the potential trade, as the All-Star forward has not agreed to sign the three-year, $65 million extension that is a prerequisite for the deal.


Even as the tension surrounding the Nuggets grows, sources maintain that Anthony is in no hurry and that he has not ruled out playing the entire season in Denver and signing with the Knicks as a free agent.


The problem with that scenario -- and one of the main reasons Anthony has not shut the door on New Jersey completely -- is that the upcoming collective bargaining agreement could force Anthony to settle for millions of dollars less. Also, the Knicks may not have enough room to offer Anthony a max deal (whatever that may look like under the new rules) unless they renounce Wilson Chandler.

BringJackBack
01-14-2011, 09:29 PM
I hope so. Our first round pick isn't going to get us anyone. Maybe Kyle Singler or someone like Marcus Morris. I'd rather have Anthony Randolph. He's only 21.

BornReady#6
01-14-2011, 09:30 PM
Yup, lets do it, were just gonna pick around 20 anyway and get nothing,.

Psyren
01-14-2011, 09:32 PM
I'm guessing it is us.

hoops_guy
01-14-2011, 09:32 PM
I bet he's going to Minnesota.

vnzla81
01-14-2011, 09:33 PM
Yup, lets do it, were just gonna pick around 20 anyway and get nothing,.

20? :wtf2:

Dr. Awesome
01-14-2011, 09:34 PM
I'd go for it - this draft looks completely hit or miss across the board. Plus, news of Irving and Barnes maybe going back for another year, plus we won't be in range of any of the top talent anyway.

Sookie
01-14-2011, 09:35 PM
can we give them TJ too?

hoops_guy
01-14-2011, 09:38 PM
can we give them TJ too?

TJ Ford and Travis Best make me question why I like little point guards. They make me want to die.

Trophy
01-14-2011, 09:38 PM
Hopefully he can become a decent guy off the bench and help this team's post defense if we do acquire him.

Please TJ Ford.

We definitely need him more than Minnesota and Portland. We need any kind of big man we can get.

hoops_guy
01-14-2011, 09:38 PM
Hopefully he can become a decent guy off the bench and help this team's post defense.

Anthony Randolph would start for us. That isn't a bash on Hansbrough or Josh, but Randolph is just a better player.

vnzla81
01-14-2011, 09:40 PM
I don't think he will play if they get him, he is not the type of player JOB likes(can't shoot the three, too young and is too fast for his liking)

xBulletproof
01-14-2011, 09:40 PM
The only players that work in a trade for Randolph are Dahntay and Solo.

Trophy
01-14-2011, 09:42 PM
Anthony Randolph would start for us. That isn't a bash on Hansbrough or Josh, but Randolph is just a better player.

For the first few games, we'd probably let him come off the bench and let him adjust to playing rotation minutes again and the other players on this team.

The PF rotation of Randolph and Tyler would be pretty good.

rock747
01-14-2011, 09:44 PM
We may as well...

beast23
01-14-2011, 09:46 PM
If it is going to cost us a 1st rounder, I really don't care where Randolph goes, as long as it's not here.

First off, Randolph adds nothing to our team... he is not playing any better than our current PFs. So why in the world would we want to spend a first rounder on a marginal player that is also redundant?

Secondly, I would hope that a 1st round pick would be much better used in a trade that would net us a lot better player than Randolph... so hold out for a later opportunity.

Our pick certainly will NOT be as low as 20 as stated by an earlier poster. If we are lucky enough to make the playoffs, we will have one of the two worst records of teams in the playoffs. So, our pick will be no worse than 16th. On the upper end, unless we totally tank, it will be no better than 13th.

Trophy
01-14-2011, 09:48 PM
If he continues to add more weight and strength, his post defense can become a lot better.

He reminds me of JaVale McGee on the defensive end so far.

He's a good shot blocker around the post.

vnzla81
01-14-2011, 09:48 PM
It would also suck if Larry helps Donnie get Melo, making it harder for the Pacers to do anything.

pwee31
01-14-2011, 09:53 PM
It's Minnesota, we're only mentioned b/c of the rumor we were offering a 1st over the summer.

Though I wouldn't mind it being us, as I don't like Granger at the 4, and I would prefer Randolph backing up Hansbrough over anyone else on the team.

Thing is, if it is us, we have to free a roster spot or throw in a player as well

hoops_guy
01-14-2011, 09:56 PM
Thing is, if it is us, we have to free a roster spot or throw in a player as well

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh61/doclegend33/AUTOS/sc0014fef1.jpg

Please. Please dear Lord.

I Love P
01-14-2011, 10:09 PM
Why all the love for Anthony Randolph? I'm confused...when was the last time you saw this guy play? If he comes here he'll be injured in a month. Let's give up a first round pick where we will be drafting anywhere from 10 to 16 more than likely for a guy that can't get off then bench in New York. I'll take my chances in the lottery or with an early playoff pick. Pass...

Shade
01-14-2011, 10:35 PM
Not a fan, personally. Would rather package our first-rounder for something else (starting-caliber PF?).

Aw Heck
01-14-2011, 11:10 PM
There's no need to waste a 1st round pick on a player that won't get off the inactive list.

Scot Pollard
01-14-2011, 11:12 PM
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we need a tough big man but how is he now

is he a tougher guy and actually have muscle and weight

LA_Confidential
01-15-2011, 12:13 AM
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we need a tough big man but how is he now

is he a tougher guy and actually have muscle and weight

That's the NBA for you. NO BOYS ALLOWED. Granted the kid was extremely young and extremely embarrassed. He got a little emotional. that doesnt minimize his toughness. Sometimes people get so angered that they get misty eyed. I'd be all for picking up AR. Some say he's redundant but the only player we have that is Comparable is Josh. He's miles ahead of Josh offensively and with the added bulk I'd say he'd be an asset defensively.

AR, Josh, Roy and Tyler would be a good collection of young bigs as all would compliment each others game.

Hicks
01-15-2011, 12:17 AM
Our first is overpaying for this guy right now.

Naptown_Seth
01-15-2011, 12:22 AM
I understand the athletic appeal of Randolph, but sincerely his game is based more on being a shooter away from the rim.

There is a reason the Warriors moved him and the Knicks aren't playing him, and it ain't cause Turiaf is awesome.


You don't move an unknown pick for something you don't really need anyway. This is not a starting PF/C more than Hibbert/Josh/Tyler are, this is just another one of them with a different type of game.


And who in the **** thinks we are picking 20th? Did I miss the part where the Pacers became a top 10 caliber team? Good gravy, time to check expectations here.

I don't know how this draft will look since I'm just starting to scout, but I don't think Randolph is an obvious choice over a 12-14th pick at this point, especially given the flexibility of choosing whatever position or type of player you want with that pick. And that still leaves them with a shot to trade the pick AND a player on draft night for a more significant upgrade.

Going for AR now feels more like a deal for deal's sake. I mean they could stand to acquire a back center for Roy, but I don't see Randolph as that. Plus I'd rather see a vet addition now since they have plenty of kids and can't develop them all as it is (at least with JOB).

oxxo
01-15-2011, 02:55 AM
I really really hope not. He is not worth a 1st. Anyone who's watched him play before (go check Warriors boards, I know they've talked about him before) knows that he is an offensive black hole with extremely low 'bball IQ'. There's a reason he's parked on the bench right now.

Smoothdave1
01-15-2011, 08:50 AM
ESPN is reporting he will be dealt within the next 2 weeks and lists Indy as a possible destination: http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6023466&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

Pacerized
01-15-2011, 09:03 AM
I really really hope not. He is not worth a 1st. Anyone who's watched him play before (go check Warriors boards, I know they've talked about him before) knows that he is an offensive black hole with extremely low 'bball IQ'. There's a reason he's parked on the bench right now.

I agree that I wouldn't want us to give up a 1st. for Randolf. If we're going to trade a pick I hope it's packaged with an expiring contract to bring in a big man that can have an immediate impact such as Nene or West.

BornReady#6
01-15-2011, 09:14 AM
The twolves are a mess, and adding Randolph to the mix of

Beasley, Brewer, Hayward, Johnson, Love, Tolliver and Webster is just gonna create more chaos.

Tom White
01-15-2011, 09:29 AM
The twolves are a mess, and adding Randolph to the mix of

Beasley, Brewer, Hayward, Johnson, Love, Tolliver and Webster is just gonna create more chaos.

But that is exactly why they would do it. They ARE the Timberwolves after all, and if a move doesn't make any sense, they will likely do it.

xIndyFan
01-15-2011, 09:42 AM
But that is exactly why they would do it. They ARE the Timberwolves after all, and if a move doesn't make any sense, they will likely do it.

esoecially if kahn [the GM] thought he was screwing someone over. he seems to be one of those guys who see the GM experience as a zero sum game. if i can hurt someone else, that has to help me indirectly. instead of just trying to make his team better.

Justin Tyme
01-15-2011, 12:23 PM
I would have to believe whichever team has better pick to trade for Randolph that would go to Denver would be in the drivers seat in acquiring Randolph.

Then there is the issue of having to match Randolph's salary with another player that Walsh would be willing to take back. With Minnie below the cap they can just absorb the 2 mil for Randolph and Walsh doesn't have to take back salary/player. He got his pick he can trade and a 2 mil TE.

The Pacers could give a pick and have a 3.6 mil TE from Murphy deal they could use to take Randolph if it is allowed. They'd then have to cut someone to make a roster spot.

I'd have to lean towards Minnie being the team that Walsh trades Randolph to, and that's fine with me as I'm not excited about seeing Randolph in a Pacers uni.

CableKC
01-15-2011, 12:58 PM
I've soured on Randolph as I don't think that he's really the answer for our PF needs. I'd rather hold on to the pick and try to package it with an Expiring for a Starting SG or PF.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 01:09 PM
Like Justin pointed out, the T'Wolves are in the position to absorb Randolph's salary so the Knicks wouldn't have to take any salary back. If the trade is going to happen, the T'Wolves are in the driver's seat 100%.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 01:28 PM
Like Justin pointed out, the T'Wolves are in the position to absorb Randolph's salary so the Knicks wouldn't have to take any salary back. If the trade is going to happen, the T'Wolves are in the driver's seat 100%.

Noooooooo cap space is only useful if you're signing signing big time free agents right!?!? ;)

I still think it could be us. Solo is expiring and works salary wise. It saves them 3 million next year and saves them cap space to make sure they're under the cap far enough to max Carmelo. I'm 50/50 on whether I'd approve or not.

TheDon
01-15-2011, 01:49 PM
This has the feel of a change for the sake of change move, I don't like those. I agree with others saying they'd rather hold onto the pick and package it with an expiring contract to get back some substance. I think the biggest change we need is a coaching one.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 02:07 PM
Noooooooo cap space is only useful if you're signing signing big time free agents right!?!? ;)

I still think it could be us. Solo is expiring and works salary wise. It saves them 3 million next year and saves them cap space to make sure they're under the cap far enough to max Carmelo. I'm 50/50 on whether I'd approve or not.

Solo would work perfectly salary-wise. I just don't see NY taking his contract if they could avoid it all together by going with Minnesota. I'm not opposed to the deal personally. Given Bird's inability to pull off trades (save for the Collison deal), I don't see us turning our 1st + an expiring contract into some starting caliber PF. Randolph has the potential to be just that. He also has the potential to be a complete failure but that's no different than the draft pick.


The big thing with Randolph that's concerning to me is that he and his agent have now requested that he be traded from 2 different teams in less than a year. At what point do you start earning your playing time and stop just blaming the team/coaching decisions. He has does some out of this world physical abilities that are very intriguing though and that is something that this team is greatly lacking.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 02:14 PM
I just don't see NY caring about a 1.5 million dollar contract for half of a season. We're talking about a team that had what? 100 million in salary a few years ago? They might even like Solo, seeing as how he could run the floor well in their offense.

I'm sure it comes down to what kind of protection is wanted on the picks, and the quality of those picks being offered.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 02:19 PM
I just don't see NY caring about a 1.5 million dollar contract for half of a season. We're talking about a team that had what? 100 million in salary a few years ago? They might even like Solo, seeing as how he could run the floor well in their offense.

I'm sure it comes down to what kind of protection is wanted on the picks, and the quality of those picks being offered.

Good point. I wonder which picks Minnesota currently owns other than their own. I doubt they're going to give up their own picks but are probably offering some other teams pick that they acquired. With the Pacers, Donnie Walsh pretty much knows what range the pick is going to be in (10-14).

CableKC
01-15-2011, 02:24 PM
Like Justin pointed out, the T'Wolves are in the position to absorb Randolph's salary so the Knicks wouldn't have to take any salary back. If the trade is going to happen, the T'Wolves are in the driver's seat 100%.
IMHO....if Kahn is smart, which is debatable at best.....I'd hope that they can get as much as they can from the Knicks and gut them for as much assets as they can get.

But Kahn....being Kahn...he'll probably do something stupid like packaging Ridnour ( something that the Knicks need ), THEIR 1st round pick for Randolph and somewhere inbetween all of that....Kahn will offer to wash Walsh's car as part of the deal.

:khan:

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 02:32 PM
Good point. I wonder which picks Minnesota currently owns other than their own. I doubt they're going to give up their own picks but are probably offering some other teams pick that they acquired. With the Pacers, Donnie Walsh pretty much knows what range the pick is going to be in (10-14).

I wondered that as well. So I looked it up.


2011 first round draft pick from Utah
Utah’s own 2011 first round pick to Minnesota (top 16 protected in the 2011 draft, top 14 protected in 2012 and top 12 protected in the 2013 draft). If Utah has not conveyed a first round pick to Minnesota by 2014 and also if Utah’s own 2014 first round is not within the top 9 picks, then Minnesota will have the option to swap their own 2014 first round pick with Utah’s own 2014 first round pick. If Minnesota does not receive a first round pick by the 2013 draft and also does not swap 2014 first round picks with Utah, then Minnesota will receive Utah’s own 2014 second round pick. [Minnesota - Utah, 7/13/2010]

2011 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' own 2011 1st round pick to Minnesota via Utah (top 14 protected in 2011, top 12 protected in 2012, top 10 protected in 2013, top 9 protected in 2014, top 9 protected in the 2015 Draft). If Minnesota does not receive a 1st round pick from Memphis by the 2015 Draft, then Minnesota will receive cash considerations from Memphis. [Memphis - Utah, 2/18/2010 and then Minnesota - Utah, 7/13/2010

The Memphis pick is top 14 protected, so they may, or may not get to use that pick this year. They do have Utah's pick however. It's interesting to go and read all of the stipulations on these draft pick trades. Like Memphis's' pick, if they suck through 2015, they only owe Minnesota cash. No pick.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 02:34 PM
I wondered that as well. So I looked it up.



The Memphis pick is top 14 protected, so they may, or may not get to use that pick this year. They do have Utah's pick however.

So in actuality, we would have the more attractive draft pick to offer.

Thanks for looking it up. I'm too lazy.:laugh:

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 02:37 PM
The team I keep forgetting about in these rumors is Portland. They may be going into rebuild mode soon, with Brandon Roy's career in jeopardy. They're still playing pretty solid ball without him though. I don't see Randolph doing anything for them though, since they have a much better version of him in Lamarcus Aldridge and they still have their trailer hitched to Oden.

The more I think about it, the less surprised I would be to find out that it's the Pacers who land Randolph.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 02:39 PM
So in actuality, we would have the more attractive draft pick to offer.

Thanks for looking it up. I'm too lazy.:laugh:

I just googled "nba draft picks owed" ... sure enough.

http://realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php

I just saw that Cleveland got two 1st round picks in the Lebron sign and trade. There's some interesting stipulations on these picks too. Kind of interesting to read.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 02:44 PM
I just googled "nba draft picks owed" ... sure enough.

http://realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php

I just saw that Cleveland got two 1st round picks in the Lebron sign and trade. There's some interesting stipulations on these picks too. Kind of interesting to read.

Wow! good find.

Pretty interesting to see that the Pacers and the Wizards are the only 2 teams in the league who don't have rights to any other team's future picks, and who also don't owe out any future picks.

Gamble1
01-15-2011, 02:50 PM
Our first is overpaying for this guy right now.
That depends on who are first will be this year. ITs a tough for me to decide but I am leaning on saying yes to a deal like this.

No one can realistically say he isn't a future starting pf in the league. If they can then I would like to point out he is 21 year olds with limited experience. Thats the same type of player we are going to draft this year. The difference is that he has been in the NBA for 2 years and he has shown that he can produce. I mean last year he did did score 28 points against Orlando and pulled down 16 rebounds against the Spurs.

YOu just can't judge guys like this and when you do you lean on measurements and potential all of which he has. Personally I don't think we draft anyone better than Randolph this year.

speakout4
01-15-2011, 02:52 PM
Randolph for Dahntay would be a good move. The knicks are going to lose a bunch of players and could use a vet guard to fill out their roster.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 02:54 PM
If Randolph added 15-20 pounds of mass, I'd be absolutely enamored with his potential enough to trade our 1st for him, without hesitation. As is, I'm iffy on the idea but leaning towards yes.

He did show the ability to play when he was in Golden State last season.

22 minutes per game
11.6 points per
6.5 rebounds per
1.6 blocks per
80% FT (got to the line 136 times in only 33 games)
44% FG

Tom White
01-15-2011, 02:57 PM
...Randolph has the potential to be just that. He also has the potential to be a complete failure but that's no different than the draft pick.




I have to disagree, in a way. The difference is that we have had a chance to see what Randolph can do in college AND the NBA. With a draft pick, we have only had the chance to see what he can do in college, and must speculate on how that translates to the NBA.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 03:02 PM
Anyone remember this?

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Indiana+Pacers+v+Golden+State+Warriors+Zh-cKWfFzLQl.jpg

Randolph played 11 minutes that game and scored 12 points on 5/6 shooting. Pacers lost by 19.

The only time Golden State came to Indy last season Randolph played 31 minutes and put up 17 points on 8/20 shooting, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals. Pacers won by 14.

speakout4
01-15-2011, 03:04 PM
If it's between us and Minnesota it has to be Minnesota since they will have a better slot in the draft. Walsh couldn't turn down that trade.

I'm missing how we could compete with Minny.

CableKC
01-15-2011, 03:05 PM
So in actuality, we would have the more attractive draft pick to offer.

Thanks for looking it up. I'm too lazy.:laugh:
Unfortunately, with the growing likelihood that JO'B will be here....even with Randolph ( who I do not think will improve our PF rotation )....I don't think that we will make the Playoffs.

If he can't crack the Knicks rotation....even after DW doing his best to finally acquire him....how is he going to crack the Pacers Frontcourt rotation?

From what I have read about Randolph....he lacks the basketball IQ to figure out the offense/defense....so I don't get the sense that he has the smarts to figure out JO'Bs offense and defense without looking as lost as Hansbrough has.

If Randolph somehow ended up here....I can totally see many of you complain about JO'B not playing him in front of Posey or Foster.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 03:08 PM
If it's between us and Minnesota it has to be Minnesota since they will have a better slot in the draft. Walsh couldn't turn down that trade.

I'm missing how we could compete with Minny.

Because as dumb as Kahn is, he's not dumb enough to give up THEIR pick. He would almost assuredly be giving up one of the additional picks that they acquired through trades, which are all lottery protected. No way in hell Minnesota gives up a top 5 pick for Randolph.

Gamble1
01-15-2011, 03:12 PM
I don't know how this draft will look since I'm just starting to scout, but I don't think Randolph is an obvious choice over a 12-14th pick at this point, especially given the flexibility of choosing whatever position or type of player you want with that pick.
Comparing apples to apples Anthony Randolph with 2 more years of college ball trumps anyone we would pick around 14.

Edit: I know you know this but AR was a 14th pick in a pf heavy draft.

Psyren
01-15-2011, 03:14 PM
Because as dumb as Kahn is, he's not dumb enough to give up THEIR pick. He would almost assuredly be giving up one of the additional picks that they acquired through trades, which are all lottery protected. No way in hell Minnesota gives up a top 5 pick for Randolph.

Spot on.

Kahn is as dumb as they come, but he's not trading a top 5 pick for Anthony Randolph. Anybody with a brain would know not to do that.

Our pick is (in all likelyhood) a mid round pick like it always is. That's much more reasonable for Randolph.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 03:18 PM
If it's between us and Minnesota it has to be Minnesota since they will have a better slot in the draft. Walsh couldn't turn down that trade.

I'm missing how we could compete with Minny.

You should read the previous posts, and there's a league rule that you can't trade your own 1st round pick any 2 years in a row. Minnesota's 1st rounder already belongs to the Clippers next year and it's unprotected.

So they simply CAN'T trade their own pick this year even if they wanted to.

CableKC
01-15-2011, 03:34 PM
Comparing apples to apples Anthony Randolph with 2 more years of college ball trumps anyone we would pick around 14.
Her has the catch.....Randolph has shown SOME flashes of brilliance......but he has also shown an inability to play consistent minutes under 2 Coaches that run high-scoring offenses that favors athletic players. IMHO.....Randolph is likely more polished then any Player that we can draft ( unless Bird drafts another Senior ) but there is something "missing" in Randolph's game that can only explain why he was jettisoned from GSW and about to be booted from the Knicks. IMHO opinion, from what i have read, it's the lack of IQ and a false sense of entitlement that is worrisome for me. For the Pacers and the growing liklihood that we will miss the Playoffs again, I'd rather use our assets to try and acquire a Starting SG or PF rather then take on Randolph.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 03:36 PM
This is off the topic, but wow. The Clippers are owed Minnesota's pick from the Marko Jaric trade from several years ago.

If Minnesota is equally as bad next year then the Clippers could have a top pick this year, plus a year of growth for Griffin, Gordon and the kids ... then even if they improve they could still have another top 5 pick via Minnesota. That's nuts.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 03:38 PM
Unfortunately, with the growing likelihood that JO'B will be here....even with Randolph ( who I do not think will improve our PF rotation )....I don't think that we will make the Playoffs.

If he can't crack the Knicks rotation....even after DW doing his best to finally acquire him....how is he going to crack the Pacers Frontcourt rotation?

From what I have read about Randolph....he lacks the basketball IQ to figure out the offense/defense....so I don't get the sense that he has the smarts to figure out JO'Bs offense and defense without looking as lost as Hansbrough has.

If Randolph somehow ended up here....I can totally see many of you complain about JO'B not playing him in front of Posey or Foster.

I'd like to believe that Larry Bird is no longer making personnel decisions based on a players ability to play under Jim O'Brien. As far as him not cracking NY's rotation, D'Antoni plays an 8 man rotation and he's got Amare Stoudemire logging about 40 minutes a game in front of him, with Gallinari (until recently) also playing major minutes in their frontcourt.

pacer4ever
01-15-2011, 03:49 PM
Minnesota has two 1st rd picks they can trade:

Utah Jazz's 2011 1st rd pick top 16 protected
Memphis Grizzlies' 2011 1st rd pick top 14 protected

i think it will be Utah's pick for AR stright up.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 03:52 PM
Minnesota has two 1st rd picks they can trade:

Utah Jazz's 2011 1st rd pick top 16 protected
Memphis Grizzlies' 2011 1st rd pick top 14 protected

:hmm:

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 03:52 PM
Minnesota has two 1st rd picks they can trade:

Utah Jazz's 2011 1st rd pick top 16 protected
Memphis Grizzlies' 2011 1st rd pick top 14 protected

he's already pointed that out. What we're saying is they can't trade THEIR pick, as in the one they will receive in the draft lottery, based on their own record at the end of the season. They can only trade picks that they own from other teams, none of which will be better than the Pacers' pick.

So why would New York take Utah's pick (top 16 protected) or Memphis' pick (top 14 protected) if they can get the Pacers' pick, which will be somewhere in the late lottery?

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 03:59 PM
At this point I'm not sure what's happening. Are you arguing out point for us, against yourself?

:hmm:

pacer4ever
01-15-2011, 04:00 PM
he's already pointed that out. What we're saying is they can't trade THEIR pick, as in the one they will receive in the draft lottery, based on their own record at the end of the season. They can only trade picks that they own from other teams, none of which will be better than the Pacers' pick.

So why would New York take Utah's pick (top 16 protected) or Memphis' pick (top 14 protected) if they can get the Pacers' pick, which will be somewhere in the late lottery?

There is no way in hell AR is worth MINN's own pick. That would be way over paying.(if they were allowed to trade it) AR value is about at Utah's pick so thats what will probly happen.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 04:02 PM
There is no way in hell AR is worth MINN's own pick. That would be way over paying.(if they were allowed to trade it)
As I've already stated this exact same thing.


AR value is about at Utah's pick so thats what will probly happen.

Why would NYK take Utah's pick instead of ours, which will be a better pick than Utah's?


Seriously, what about this is so confusing? You guys should go back and read the posts that led to this page because all of this stuff has already been pointed out.

pacer4ever
01-15-2011, 04:04 PM
As I've already stated this exact same thing.



Why would NYK take Utah's pick instead of ours, which will be a better pick than Utah's?

I don't think our's is on the table any more. But they would take ours's if it was on the table. But we would probly protect it if we trade ours probly lottery protected.

SMosley21
01-15-2011, 04:04 PM
Neither really. Just throwing out some info out there for you guys. I don't have stake in this hence the reason I didn't post earlier. I'm firm in believing we wont acquire AR nor do I want to. But like I said just trying to be helpful with some info.

Ok, that makes more sense. xBulletproof already posted that info though so I was confused as to why you did as well.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 04:05 PM
The confusing part is though, that the information you're providing comes from a link I posted earlier in the thread.

I'm confused like this guy.

http://518fever.com/wp-content/uploads/asdimoro/confused.jpg

speakout4
01-15-2011, 04:07 PM
he's already pointed that out. What we're saying is they can't trade THEIR pick, as in the one they will receive in the draft lottery, based on their own record at the end of the season. They can only trade picks that they own from other teams, none of which will be better than the Pacers' pick.

So why would New York take Utah's pick (top 16 protected) or Memphis' pick (top 14 protected) if they can get the Pacers' pick, which will be somewhere in the late lottery?


I don't think our's is on the table any more. But they wouldnt they would take ours's if it was on the table. Plus we would probly protect it if we trade ours probly lottery protected.
Huh? How much conjecture is this?

pacer4ever
01-15-2011, 04:08 PM
Huh? How much conjecture is this?

I meant would instead of wouldnt

Justin Tyme
01-15-2011, 04:24 PM
You should read the previous posts, and there's a league rule that you can't trade your own 1st round pick any 2 years in a row. Minnesota's 1st rounder already belongs to the Clippers next year and it's unprotected.

So they simply CAN'T trade their own pick this year even if they wanted to.


I was under the impression you couldn't be out of the 1st round of draft 2 years in a row. As along as you had a 1st pick it didn't matter who's pick it was. I guess I'll have to update my info on this.

xBulletproof
01-15-2011, 04:36 PM
I was under the impression you couldn't be out of the 1st round of draft 2 years in a row. As along as you had a 1st pick it didn't matter who's pick it was. I guess I'll have to update my info on this.

I helped make an NBA video game a few years ago in the past. Part of my job was finding and keeping track of obscure cap/trade related rules. This one was caused by some GM in Cleveland in the early 80's who traded away a ton of picks if I recall correctly and ruined the team. Including a pick that became James Worthy.

King Phoenix
01-15-2011, 05:33 PM
Don't want him and if were keeping Bob and psycho t he's unnecessary.

BigAndy
01-15-2011, 05:40 PM
It would be nice if we could package our 1st with another player to get us a real starting PF.

O'Bird
01-16-2011, 02:11 AM
For the first few games, we'd probably let him come off the bench and let him adjust to playing rotation minutes again and the other players on this team.

The PF rotation of Randolph and Tyler would be pretty good.

He hasn't played more than ten minutes in a game since November 14th. He hasn't been playing at all recently (ankle injury), but even before getting hurt he was only getting token minutes. I take it you are aware of that and you are referring to the rotation minutes he got last season in GS - but he only played in 33 games. Now if I were Larry I'd want to make damn sure before pulling this particular trigger, because Randolph was practically always in Nellie's doghouse and D'Antoni won't play him. What gives?

Not a good shooter yet in his young career, but he can put it on the deck and get to the line - and he's a grade-A FT shooter. Can rebound - unusual combination of skills and size.


:

Will Galen
01-16-2011, 02:47 AM
I was under the impression you couldn't be out of the 1st round of draft 2 years in a row. As along as you had a 1st pick it didn't matter who's pick it was. I guess I'll have to update my info on this.

You are correct.

Teams are required to have only a first round pick, and not necessarily their first round pick. So teams may trade away their own future picks in consecutive years if they have another team's first round pick in one of those years.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q74

Gamble1
01-16-2011, 09:30 AM
Her has the catch.....Randolph has shown SOME flashes of brilliance......but he has also shown an inability to play consistent minutes under 2 Coaches that run high-scoring offenses that favors athletic players. IMHO.....Randolph is likely more polished then any Player that we can draft ( unless Bird drafts another Senior ) but there is something "missing" in Randolph's game that can only explain why he was jettisoned from GSW and about to be booted from the Knicks. IMHO opinion, from what i have read, it's the lack of IQ and a false sense of entitlement that is worrisome for me. For the Pacers and the growing liklihood that we will miss the Playoffs again, I'd rather use our assets to try and acquire a Starting SG or PF rather then take on Randolph.
ITs not a either or situation to me like you are making it out to be. Whats our first worth this year? What was our first worth last year? We couldn't package a deal last year to land us a starting player so why am I to think we can do it this year? Our players aren't better and we had expirings last year.

If a team was stupid enough to give us a high quality starter which is what I think you want for a expirings and our first then sign me up. I just don't think there is a deal like that out there.

Again a low basketball IQ and a sense of entitlement at age 21 isn't surprising to me. Its almost expected given his age.

BornReady#6
01-16-2011, 09:42 AM
Not at all, he is still just a kid who hasnt harnessed his own abilities, people say he lives like a superstar and hasnt even done anything, and has attitude problems, not to mention he will quit on you. We dont need Eddy Curry light, but you never know if these are just rumors.

xBulletproof
01-16-2011, 12:59 PM
You are correct.

Teams are required to have only a first round pick, and not necessarily their first round pick. So teams may trade away their own future picks in consecutive years if they have another team's first round pick in one of those years.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q74



I wonder when it was changed, or if I'm just misremembering. Granted the game was a decade ago, but I was pretty certain I was remembering it correctly. Hmph.

1984
01-16-2011, 01:51 PM
http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/04/03/knicks_donnie_walsh_is_paul_beare_2.png

Mwa-ha-ha-ha!

1984
01-16-2011, 01:59 PM
We need a, "mean hombre" in the paint as stated by Jim O'Brien, and Anthony Randolph is neither "mean" nor "hombre". That is to say, at this point in his career, it has not been established whether Randolph belongs in the NBA or WNBA. On a more serious note, playing Randolph next to Hibbert seems like a disaster...

http://www.idealaunch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/WheresThebeef.jpg

Hicks
01-16-2011, 02:19 PM
Beef in the paint would be nice. I'd settle for a big man who can do an effortless standing dunk underneath the rim, though.

Justin Tyme
01-16-2011, 02:20 PM
I wonder when it was changed, or if I'm just misremembering. Granted the game was a decade ago, but I was pretty certain I was remembering it correctly. Hmph.



The rule came into effect when, I believe it was Ted Stipen(sp?), traded that teams 1sts away for years.

1984
01-16-2011, 06:19 PM
Not to Indiana... at least it doesn't seem so.

Read more from the New York Post http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/randolph_agent_asks_for_trade_GiYGJK2ikUc6SQP0uOEW vI


Walsh received a trade request last night from the agent for Anthony

Randolph, who has been out of the rotation since mid-November.

Walsh met with Randolph's representative, Bill Duffy, one hour before tip-off of the Knicks' 93-83 loss to the Kings. Duffy asked Walsh about the possibility of dealing Randolph, who was taken out of the rotation in mid-November, resulting in the Knicks going on a 13-1 spree.

The Post reported Thursday that Walsh was waffling on whether to trade Randolph to Minnesota for a first-round pick that could be used in an Anthony deal, but the Nets are the ones closest to landing him.

Walsh still could use an extra first-rounder in another deal before the Feb. 24 trade deadline.

"I won't comment on a private conversation," Walsh said.

"The truth is we had a very constructive meeting with Donnie regarding Anthony," Duffy wrote in a text message. "Donnie said he would have an open mind and would only do what would be mutually beneficial. I agreed that was fair, but emphasized the sooner the better. He would not get specific but said we should circle back very soon."

"I know nothing about that," Randolph said.

A league source said Walsh has not acted in the past 24 hours as if he has any shot at Anthony, even though he met with Anthony's agent, Leon Rose, at halftime last night. In an interview with ESPN, Anthony said his "ultimate dream" was to play in New York, but did not specify the Knicks and for the first time mentioned the possibility of opening the new Brooklyn arena for the Nets.

Rose also is the agent of disgruntled Knicks center Eddy Curry, who hasn't dressed this season. Rose and Curry met after the game.

An ESPN.com report last night said Randolph would be dealt in the next two weeks for a first-round pick, with the Wolves, Pacers and Blazers mentioned as possibilities. The 21-year-old Randolph, obtained in the David Lee sign-and-trade from the Warriors, played in 14 game, but only has appeared in garbage time since mid-November.

Rose, who lives in Camden, N.J., said he popped in to see some of his clients, including the Kings' Jason Thompson and Omri Casspi, as well as Curry, who told The Post last week he wanted to speak with his agent to find out more about his status.

Rose said, "I'm here to watch the game. With all due respect, if there's something to say, I'll say it."

Anthony finally acknowledged the Nets as a potential destination, which does not bode well for the Knicks' longshot bid. The Knicks' best chance at Anthony would be if he spurns an extension with the Nets.

"I see what the future holds, they'll move to Brooklyn," Anthony said of the Nets. "Me going back home to Brooklyn, opening that arena, I think about all that stuff."

CableKC
01-16-2011, 08:23 PM
ITs not a either or situation to me like you are making it out to be. Whats our first worth this year? What was our first worth last year? We couldn't package a deal last year to land us a starting player so why am I to think we can do it this year? Our players aren't better and we had expirings last year.

If a team was stupid enough to give us a high quality starter which is what I think you want for a expirings and our first then sign me up. I just don't think there is a deal like that out there.

Again a low basketball IQ and a sense of entitlement at age 21 isn't surprising to me. Its almost expected given his age.
I forgot what Expiring Contracts that we had last season. Which Players were Expiring and how much did we have in Expiring Contracts?

Did we really have any Expiring Contracts that could have realistically gotten anything of value?

Also...I can understand a sense of entitlement at the age of 21 IF they just entered the NBA....but a sense of entitlement after entering their 3rd year to me isn't a good thing....it's a sign of immaturity. But ignoring that part...even if it's just a matter of growing out of it given time and experience....a low basketball IQ is something that I'd be concerned about and something that I think that Bird values.

Gamble1
01-16-2011, 09:40 PM
I forgot what Expiring Contracts that we had last season. Which Players were Expiring and how much did we have in Expiring Contracts?

Did we really have any Expiring Contracts that could have realistically gotten anything of value?

Also...I can understand a sense of entitlement at the age of 21 IF they just entered the NBA....but a sense of entitlement after entering their 3rd year to me isn't a good thing....it's a sign of immaturity. But ignoring that part...even if it's just a matter of growing out of it given time and experience....a low basketball IQ is something that I'd be concerned about and something that I think that Bird values.
What I am referring to is when Bird tried to package players along with our first to get a deal done for a quality starter. This would have been after last years expirings were gone and around draft day.

We couldn't get a deal done then even with a higher pick so I am not so sure we could package a 14th-17th pick this year with an expiring to land us a quality starting pf or sg. If we can i would gladly forge Birds signature to a deal like that.

Anthony Randolph is one year older than Paul George and I don't consider him to have a good basketball IQ yet. Sure Bird values a high basketball IQ but thats not the only thing he values and one thing is for sure Bird has been taking more players with above average athleticism with below average basketball IQ. Players like PG, Lance, even McRoberts and Solo were considered to have low basketball IQ's. To me there are players that will grow to have a higher basketball IQ's and then there are players that will never have a high basketball IQ even with a unlimited amount of minutes. Its hard for me to think that anyone could judge Randolphs potential to have a high basketball IQ at 21 but thats just me.

pwee31
01-17-2011, 12:27 AM
What I am referring to is when Bird tried to package players along with our first to get a deal done for a quality starter. This would have been after last years expirings were gone and around draft day.

We couldn't get a deal done then even with a higher pick so I am not so sure we could package a 14th-17th pick this year with an expiring to land us a quality starting pf or sg. If we can i would gladly forge Birds signature to a deal like that.


In all fairness though, those expiring contracts over the summer weren't really worth anything due to so many question marks. Ford had been stuck to the end of the bench all last season and it was clear the Pacers wanted to move him. Foster was coming off of back surgery and missing the majority of the season, and Dunleavy had a lack luster season returning from injury.

The only productive and healthy expiring contract was Troy Murphy, and well... he netted us Collison w/o having to trade our draft pick, so it's all about want and need when it comes to other teams around the league.

I'm sure Jeff Foster will have a lot of value to teams and it will come down to what the Pacers are offered, and if they even want to move Foster.

Dunleavy is healthier. He hasn't returned to the form we all had hope, but he could help a team as a shooter, a team that can hide his defensive liabilities.

Ford has played decent at times, and he's actually been getting minutes all year as backup, so he may have some interest as well from a team that would like security at PG.

I wouldn't add or trade a pick unless it's someone you really feel will make this team better in the long run.

NapTonius Monk
01-17-2011, 04:24 AM
I HATE trading away draft picks. HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE IT!
That said, is this draft shaping up to have a player better than Anthony Randolph at where we would be picking? This doesn't seem to be all that deep of a draft. I'd like to take a chance on Randolph, on the off chance that all these players start to 'get it' about the same time!

1984
01-17-2011, 09:06 AM
I HATE trading away draft picks. HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE IT!
That said, is this draft shaping up to have a player better than Anthony Randolph at where we would be picking? This doesn't seem to be all that deep of a draft. I'd like to take a chance on Randolph, on the off chance that all these players start to 'get it' about the same time!


The Post reported Thursday that Walsh was waffling on whether to trade Randolph to Minnesota for a first-round pick that could be used in an Anthony deal, but the Nets are the ones closest to landing him.


We're not trading anyone or anything.

Justin Tyme
01-17-2011, 10:45 AM
Anthony Randolph is one year older than Paul George and I don't consider him to have a good basketball IQ yet. Sure Bird values a high basketball IQ but thats not the only thing he values and one thing is for sure Bird has been taking more players with above average athleticism with below average basketball IQ. Players like PG, Lance, even McRoberts and Solo were considered to have low basketball IQ's. To me there are players that will grow to have a higher basketball IQ's and then there are players that will never have a high basketball IQ even with a unlimited amount of minutes. Its hard for me to think that anyone could judge Randolphs potential to have a high basketball IQ at 21 but thats just me.


When Ike Diogu was a Pacer he was labeled as having a low BB IQ. Ike wouldn't or couldn't pass out of double teams. He was a blackhole with the basketball. I've been keeping tabs on Ike since his return to the NBA with the Clippers, and he averages ZERO ZILCH NADA assists per game. Not even a fraction of a assist per game! He is averaging 6 pts and 4 rebs. Maybe he still can't pass out of a double team. If Jimmy is smart, he'll have the Pacers doubling Ike everytime he gets the ball trying to create a turnover. Ike scorching the Pacers tommorow night should never be something that happens. If it does, I will change my stance about not advocating Jimmy to be fired.

Personally, I'm one who is glad to see Ike back in the NBA playing, and hope he succeeds for years to come.

Has anyone else noticed that the Clippers have 3 undersized players who have played PF in in their careers? Ike, Craig Smith, and Ryan Gomes. When Ike was a Pacer, he was at times compared to Smith and Leon Powe as all were about the same size.

Gamble1
01-17-2011, 12:04 PM
When Ike Diogu was a Pacer he was labeled as having a low BB IQ. Ike wouldn't or couldn't pass out of double teams. He was a blackhole with the basketball. I've been keeping tabs on Ike since his return to the NBA with the Clippers, and he averages ZERO ZILCH NADA assists per game. Not even a fraction of a assist per game! He is averaging 6 pts and 4 rebs. Maybe he still can't pass out of a double team. If Jimmy is smart, he'll have the Pacers doubling Ike everytime he gets the ball trying to create a turnover. Ike scorching the Pacers tommorow night should never be something that happens. If it does, I will change my stance about not advocating Jimmy to be fired.

Personally, I'm one who is glad to see Ike back in the NBA playing, and hope he succeeds for years to come.

Has anyone else noticed that the Clippers have 3 undersized players who have played PF in in their careers? Ike, Craig Smith, and Ryan Gomes. When Ike was a Pacer, he was at times compared to Smith and Leon Powe as all were about the same size.
Its funny to me that you mention Ike because I was very close to using him as an example of a guy who IMO will never achieve a high basketball IQ. He is a classic example of a guy who could put up impressive college stats but he doesn't translate well to the NBA. Being short and strong but not very athletic or smart is problematic. At 27 I think Ike has shown us what he is.

Contrast that with Randolph and he is the complete opposite of the type of pf we have now. Only Josh comes close but even he doesn't have the athleticism that Randolph has. I am not so high on Randolph that I would deny a good trade for a better player but right now I don't see one magically appearing. Maybe when we get closer to the trade deadline we will get more offers but I doubt it.

CableKC
01-17-2011, 12:30 PM
Its funny to me that you mention Ike because I was very close to using him as an example of a guy who IMO will never achieve a high basketball IQ. He is a classic example of a guy who could put up impressive college stats but he doesn't translate well to the NBA. Being short and strong but not very athletic or smart is problematic. At 27 I think Ike has shown us what he is.

Contrast that with Randolph and he is the complete opposite of the type of pf we have now. Only Josh comes close but even he doesn't have the athleticism that Randolph has. I am not so high on Randolph that I would deny a good trade for a better player but right now I don't see one magically appearing. Maybe when we get closer to the trade deadline we will get more offers but I doubt it.
I know that I am in the minority....but my hope is that we'd see what happens with this Melo-Drama ( I should coin that phrase ) cuz I think that it is holding up the rest of the league on deciding to make any other major trades.

Keep in mind that although the PF spot is a cause for major concern for improvement....another Starting spot that I think COULD have some room for improvement would be the Starting SG spot. I'm thinking that Starting Quality SGs like Kevin Martin and Iggy ( yes, it's a longshot ) could be had ( depending on what direction their Teams are headed towards ). Also.....you never know what the Nuggets are going to do with Nene.

We can agree to disagree that Randolph would be worth the pick......but we can agree that the 1st round pick could be used to improve the Team with a more experienced Player....it's just a matter of how we use it.

beast23
01-17-2011, 01:07 PM
I guess when considering Randolph, I ask myself one question. Even without getting rid of a player, will inserting Randolph onto our roster make us a better team?

There is no doubt that he has some rebounding ability. Last year he averaged one rebound for each 3 or 4 minutes played. He is not bad offensively near the basket and can shoot a little. He did block a few shots, although I don't think he has a reputation for being a great defensive player.

Does he add anything over and above what we presently have? My conclusion is that if he does, it is marginal. I don't think that he adds more; I think that he adds something a little different.

He would probably be stronger near the basket than Hansbrough, for example. But Hansbrough is much, much better 15 feet from the basket. He might get an extra rebound or two than Hansbrough in 25 minutes of action, but due to Hansbrough's aggressiveness and ability to keep balls alive on the boards, I'm not certain that the team as a whole would gain more rebounds.

If we were considering parting with a first round draft choice (that probably has a 50-50 or greater chance of being a lottery pick) for Randolph, I just think we are setting our sights a little low for the value of the pick.

I think that if we are willing to part with a first round pick, we should be attempting to get a much better player in return. We certainly have young players and some expiring contracts to combine with the pick to attempt a better trade.

Acquiring Randolph provides a marginal improvement at best and in no way moves us closer to being a contender. Due to the loss of a first round pick, it could be argued that it actually delays us further from the goal of becoming a contender.

Justin Tyme
01-17-2011, 01:41 PM
My conclusion is that if he does, it is marginal. I don't think that he adds more; I think that he adds something a little different.


If we were considering parting with a first round draft choice (that probably has a 50-50 or greater chance of being a lottery pick) for Randolph, I just think we are setting our sights a little low for the value of the pick.

I think that if we are willing to part with a first round pick, we should be attempting to get a much better player in return. We certainly have young players and some expiring contracts to combine with the pick to attempt a better trade.


Nice conclusion. He'd bring more length and athleticism, but not the power in POWER FORWARD.

The Pacers right now have the 13th worse record which already puts them in the lottery with 3 teams breathing down their backs in the East alone.

I don't want Randolph, but I have no problem trading the 011 1st pick in a trade to up grade the team. Right now that upgrade could be at a # of positions.

Gamble1
01-17-2011, 03:20 PM
I think that if we are willing to part with a first round pick, we should be attempting to get a much better player in return. We certainly have young players and some expiring contracts to combine with the pick to attempt a better trade.

Acquiring Randolph provides a marginal improvement at best and in no way moves us closer to being a contender. Due to the loss of a first round pick, it could be argued that it actually delays us further from the goal of becoming a contender.
Hey if we can combine our first round pick with a expiring or a player we are willing to cut ties on then I say we do it. I just think Bird has been trying to do what you have suggested for awhile now and getting no where. I honestly believe if he could have traded Rush and our first for an upgrade at sg he would have done it. The same for the pf postion.

The problem that we have is that our assets that we are willing to give up are not going to make any GM look like he came out on top in a trade. No fans are going to be like, "Yeah for expirings and a draft pick.... I want to watch more games now".

If Randolf could be had for a 14th-17th pick then its a good trade. He does bring something different but its not redundant like Ford and Collsion. His strengths are our weaknesses as a team. Maybe that changes next year but right now we have no one who can block shots like him or get to the paint like him.

IMO the only reason Walsh would trade him is because of Melo and the only reason he was traded from GS is because Walsh is smart and wouldn't allow Lee to go for nothing. That sign and trade was brillant.

I thought this video shows his ability to protect the paint. By no means is he a finished product but he is better prosepect to me than anyone we could draft this year. The 1:12 mark is a good place to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CDefTdwIx0&feature=related

beast23
01-17-2011, 03:52 PM
Hey if we can combine our first round pick with a expiring or a player we are willing to cut ties on then I say we do it. I just think Bird has been trying to do what you have suggested for awhile now and getting no where. I honestly believe if he could have traded Rush and our first for an upgrade at sg he would have done it. The same for the pf postion.I would agree with that... it's pretty obvious Bird has made attempts. I suppose I would rather wait until summer if necessary and trade either the pick, the player drafted or one of our youngsters if necessary to acquire a better player.

In the video, I was impressed with the shot-blocking that was shown. I was a little disappointed at several of the decisions in his passing that led to turnovers, whether they resulted in blocked shots or not. I suppose the talent that I was most impressed with was Randolph's ability to put the ball on the floor, whether in the open court or in drives to the basket.

But personally, I want a better, more experienced player.

Gamble1
01-17-2011, 04:45 PM
I would agree with that... it's pretty obvious Bird has made attempts. I suppose I would rather wait until summer if necessary and trade either the pick, the player drafted or one of our youngsters if necessary to acquire a better player.

In the video, I was impressed with the shot-blocking that was shown. I was a little disappointed at several of the decisions in his passing that led to turnovers, whether they resulted in blocked shots or not. I suppose the talent that I was most impressed with was Randolph's ability to put the ball on the floor, whether in the open court or in drives to the basket.

But personally, I want a better, more experienced player.
So out of that 8 minute video you were disappointed in the 2 plays where he turned it over and then blocked the fast break shot. Either you are a coach are the most hard core fan I have ever seen on a forum. ;)

I think everyone wants a better player than a 21 year old with limited experience. The same could have been said of JO when he was with Portland.

CableKC
01-17-2011, 05:48 PM
So out of that 8 minute video you were disappointed in the 2 plays where he turned it over and then blocked the fast break shot. Either you are a coach are the most hard core fan I have ever seen on a forum. ;)

I think everyone wants a better player than a 21 year old with limited experience. The same could have been said of JO when he was with Portland.
Let's be clear about Randolph's situation in the last 3 years. It wasn't like Randolph was stuck behind some Frontcourt Player that was JUSTIFIABLY better then him and therefore it made sense that Randolph didn't get any minutes. IMHO...this isn't like the situation that we have with PG where here is stuck behind Granger/BRush/Dunleavy and Posey :banghead: in the SG/SF rotation.....Randolph did have the opportunity and minutes to prove himself in NY and ( to a certain degree ) with GSW....he just hasn't been able to capitalize on it for one reason or another.

Let's just say that IF we make a move for him and all it costs us is a 1st round pick....then I will fret about it a little then pray and hope that he's able to get to that next level.....I'm just saying that if he hasn't gotten there after his 3rd year...you really have to wonder what's up with him. BRush was like that where you could see steady but marked improvement in all facets of his game going into the 3rd year of his career.....but after his 3rd year in the NBA....Randolph still has the big "P" attached to his name where he could easily go no where or become something in the right situation.

As mentioned before...if he could not excel in 2 systems ( Nellie's and D'Antoni's offense ) that would appear to benefit an athletic and long Forward that was likely very quick and mobile....then what is missing here? That "one reason or another" is what concerns me and why I have weary.

Gamble1
01-17-2011, 06:41 PM
Let's just say that IF we make a move for him and all it costs us is a 1st round pick....then I will fret about it a little then pray and hope that he's able to get to that next level.....I'm just saying that if he hasn't gotten there after his 3rd year...you really have to wonder what's up with him. BRush was like that where you could see steady but marked improvement in all facets of his game going into the 3rd year of his career.....but after his 3rd year in the NBA....Randolph still has the big "P" attached to his name where he could easily go no where or become something in the right situation.

As mentioned before...if he could not excel in 2 systems ( Nellie's and D'Antoni's offense ) that would appear to benefit an athletic and long Forward that was likely very quick and mobile....then what is missing here? That "one reason or another" is what concerns me and why I have weary.
I am not sure what improvement you see in Rush but he has had more time to improve than Randolph. Your talking about a 4 year swing. Randolph is not a 3 point shooter and could be why d'Antoni doesn't play him. If I could take a 20 year old and have 11/6.5 player I would be happy. What are you missing? Most coaches don't rely on young pf's to retain their job.

PacerPride33
01-18-2011, 09:20 PM
LB must be high on Randolph if he was willing to trade the first round pick during the summer for him. I hope a deal gets done here shortly, I still think Randolph would really add a lot to the team.

cdash
01-18-2011, 09:47 PM
LB must be high on Randolph if he was willing to trade the first round pick during the summer for him. I hope a deal gets done here shortly, I still think Randolph would really add a lot to the team.

Yep. When you have the chance to give up a lottery pick for a guy who couldn't get off the bench on two teams desperate for frontcourt depth, you gotta do it.

beast23
01-18-2011, 10:41 PM
Yep. When you have the chance to give up a lottery pick for a guy who couldn't get off the bench on two teams desperate for frontcourt depth, you gotta do it.What the hell? Please, by all means, don't introduce reason to this thread!!! After all, it's only been missing through most of the 104 previous posts.

vnzla81
01-18-2011, 10:56 PM
Yep. When you have the chance to give up a lottery pick for a guy who couldn't get off the bench on two teams desperate for frontcourt depth, you gotta do it.

I wonder if we could be lucky enough to get a 1st pick for Josh(no that I want to trade him just saying that at least he can play in the NBA)

CableKC
01-19-2011, 03:19 AM
I am not sure what improvement you see in Rush but he has had more time to improve than Randolph. Your talking about a 4 year swing. Randolph is not a 3 point shooter and could be why d'Antoni doesn't play him. If I could take a 20 year old and have 11/6.5 player I would be happy. What are you missing? Most coaches don't rely on young pf's to retain their job.
I'm confused here......both BRush and Randolph entered the league at the same time 3 seasons ago. What improvement do I see in BRush from over the last 3 seasons? BRush steadily improved to become a Starter/6th Man despite playing with a very short leash for JO'B in his 1st two seasons.

What has Randolph done in his 1st 3 seasons? He's shown flashes of brilliance in his 1st 2 seasons, but he had ONLY averaged 11/6 in 33 games LAST SEASON while playing for Nellie, he got injured, then got moved to the Knicks where he couldn't even get any minutes on a Team that had an Amare, Turiaf and some European Rookie ( forgot his name ) Frontcourt rotation in an Offensive System that would seem to suit his athleticsm and length. But if DW ( who was heavily rumored to have wanted Randolph when he entered the draft years ago and I believe is a guy that reaches for potential but holds onto them longer then they should ) has truly decided to move Randolph and has deemed him "expendable", then something is wrong here.

I do not doubt that he still has some potential and could still become a better Player....I'm just saying that I don't think that he's worth a 1st round Lottery pick anymore.

PacerGuy
01-19-2011, 09:31 AM
I do not doubt that he still has some potential and could still become a better Player....I'm just saying that I don't think that he's worth a 1st round Lottery pick anymore.

What if the deal was D.Jones/1st for A.Randolph/2nd?
Is that worth it?

Pacergeek
01-19-2011, 09:36 AM
Danny Granger will not let this trade happen. Randolph and Granger have beef, and Granger backed down last season during an altercation. These two do not get along.

DGPR
01-19-2011, 09:52 AM
Danny Granger will not let this trade happen. Randolph and Granger have beef, and Granger backed down last season during an altercation. These two do not get along.


You're right man, this "beef" might turn into an all out war if they let it go on too long!

But seriously, players have altercations on the court all the time and even in practice with their own teammates. They are grown men and they possess the ability to make amends.

beast23
01-19-2011, 09:53 AM
What if the deal was D.Jones/1st for A.Randolph/2nd?
Is that worth it?No. The Pacers forfeiting their 1st round choice should NEVER happen if the best player returned is Randolph. It doesn't matter if the Knicks gave us three 2nd round picks.... we should never give up a pick that may prove to be a lottery pick.

Now, if the Pacers were somehow picking at #30 or low in the first round, then maybe it's not so bad. But certainly not at #13 to #17.

graphic-er
01-19-2011, 10:05 AM
Danny Granger will not let this trade happen. Randolph and Granger have beef, and Granger backed down last season during an altercation. These two do not get along.

Say what? Granger backs down from no one. I don't remember these 2 getting into it last season at all.

Pacergeek
01-19-2011, 11:26 AM
Say what? Granger backs down from no one. I don't remember these 2 getting into it last season at all.

You must not have watched Warriors @ Pacers last season then. Randolph said "all you do is talk" and made a talking gesture with his hand. Randolph may have even blown him a kiss. Danny did nothing about it, and looked like a b***ch. Sorry, but I don't think that these guys have any desire to play with each other.

Frostwolf
01-19-2011, 11:31 AM
You must not have watched Warriors @ Pacers last season then. Randolph said "all you do is talk" and made a talking gesture with his hand. Randolph may have even blown him a kiss. Danny did nothing about it, and looked like a b***ch. Sorry, but I don't think that these guys have any desire to play with each other.

that's almost as hilarious as demarcus cousins making the choke sign when his team was losing. :p

Pacergeek
01-19-2011, 11:33 AM
that's almost as hilarious as demarcus cousins making the choke sign when his team was losing. :p

Did you watch the game and the altercation? If not, then you have no room to come after me. The confrontation was somewhat heated.

Gamble1
01-19-2011, 11:57 AM
I'm confused here......both BRush and Randolph entered the league at the same time 3 seasons ago. What improvement do I see in BRush from over the last 3 seasons? BRush steadily improved to become a Starter/6th Man despite playing with a very short leash for JO'B in his 1st two seasons.

What has Randolph done in his 1st 3 seasons? He's shown flashes of brilliance in his 1st 2 seasons, but he had ONLY averaged 11/6 in 33 games LAST SEASON while playing for Nellie, he got injured, then got moved to the Knicks where he couldn't even get any minutes on a Team that had an Amare, Turiaf and some European Rookie ( forgot his name ) Frontcourt rotation in an Offensive System that would seem to suit his athleticsm and length. But if DW ( who was heavily rumored to have wanted Randolph when he entered the draft years ago and I believe is a guy that reaches for potential but holds onto them longer then they should ) has truly decided to move Randolph and has deemed him "expendable", then something is wrong here.

I do not doubt that he still has some potential and could still become a better Player....I'm just saying that I don't think that he's worth a 1st round Lottery pick anymore.
I don't know if you are just ignoring my previous post or if you just didn't have the time to read it. I stated the reasons why I think he was traded. One you have a incredibly bad franchise getting rid of many good players in the past in Golden State. You want me to defend a bad franchise's moves for David Lee? I am sorry I am not going to do it.

Likewise DW wants Melo but has nothing to sweeten the deal to top NJ or any other team. The only thing he can do is flip players for picks and the most likely player is Randolph.

Are you saying you wouldn't trade randolph for picks if that meant you increased your chances for the only available superstar player in the league? A player who wants play on your team. Of course you would. Lets not act like DW isn't in a pressure situation here and is so stupid not to increase his chances at trading for Melo.

Am I to assume Jordan Hill is going to bust too because DW did the same thing with him. JO was also young, slim and unproductive at Portland but he did have the potential that DW saw. I don't think he will be like JO but lets not act like a 23 year old sg develops at the same rate as a young 19 year old pf with one year of college ball.

Hey if many of you want a Kyle Singler as a lottery pick thats your right. I just think Randolph trumps most of players we could draft around 14-17 range.

ColeTheMole
01-19-2011, 12:07 PM
I don't know if this is the altercation, but I found it online.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/WnKyOJ-5Paa/Indiana+Pacers+v+Golden+State+Warriors/GESBFtZVtH9/Anthony+Randolph

Gamble1
01-19-2011, 12:09 PM
Did you watch the game and the altercation? If not, then you have no room to come after me. The confrontation was somewhat heated.
If what your saying is true then artest and many other players wouldn't be in the league.

CableKC
01-19-2011, 12:14 PM
What if the deal was D.Jones/1st for A.Randolph/2nd?
Is that worth it?
I'd certainly consider it....but there's no way that the Knicks take on Inferno's long-term contract. They want every single ounce of SalaryCap space next season to add next to Felton+Amare+Melo. Although $3 mil in 2011-2012 Capspace doesn't seem like much....given the discount that FAs will give to play in NY next to the "Not so Big 3"....that could mean the difference between a mediocre Player and a solid FA.

PR07
01-19-2011, 12:55 PM
I'm confused here......both BRush and Randolph entered the league at the same time 3 seasons ago. What improvement do I see in BRush from over the last 3 seasons? BRush steadily improved to become a Starter/6th Man despite playing with a very short leash for JO'B in his 1st two seasons.


To be fair, Anthony Randolph would still be in college right now at 21. Rush is 25 years old. If Rush hadn't shown any polish in his game right now, something would seriously be wrong.

Trophy
01-19-2011, 01:11 PM
The odds of him coming here seem to be less likely.

I read that Portland is likely going to be the ones that get him.

CableKC
01-19-2011, 01:12 PM
I don't know if you are just ignoring my previous post or if you just didn't have the time to read it. I stated the reasons why I think he was traded. One you have a incredibly bad franchise getting rid of many good players in the past in Golden State. You want me to defend a bad franchise's moves for David Lee? I am sorry I am not going to do it.
I don't expect you to defend the Warriors when it comes to the moves that they have made ( and not made ) in the past. I'm very familiar with what the Warriors have done over the last couple of seasons and IMHO.....sending Randolph off for a S&T of David Lee wasn't a mistake. Yes...you are right...getting David Lee was a smart move while jettisoning Randolph ( a perceived asset by DW )....but IMHO...I don't think that losing Randolph...specifically a Player that the FO has hoped would pan out after 2 seasons of play.... would be classified as a bad move.


Likewise DW wants Melo but has nothing to sweeten the deal to top NJ or any other team. The only thing he can do is flip players for picks and the most likely player is Randolph.

Are you saying you wouldn't trade randolph for picks if that meant you increased your chances for the only available superstar player in the league? A player who wants play on your team. Of course you would. Lets not act like DW isn't in a pressure here and is so stupid not to increase his chances at trading for Melo.
I don't disagree with what you're saying about what the Knicks are doing. I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't pull out all the stops to try to get Melo. The Knicks have the option to send Landry Fields or Wilson Chandler for a 1st round pick...but they are only rumored to be sending out Randolph for a 1st round pick. I admit that it's possible that they may be doing the same with the Fields ( the Knicks have said that they are committed to keeping Chandler )....it's just that Randolph is the only one that has consistently been rumored to be going elsewhere. Add in that the Knicks have the obvious choice to send Randolph himself to the Nuggets...the problem is that the Nuggets don't want him. Of course, the Nuggets already have Nene, the Birdman and Kenyon Martin in the frontcourt this season....but they'll still need to replace Kenyon Martin next season....yet, they do not want Randolph. I know that I am merely speculating and that they he may end up on the Nuggets in the end...I'm just saying that ( based off of what we know ) the Nuggets simply do not appear to want him for one reason or another.


Am I to assume Jordan Hill is going to bust too because DW did the same thing with him. JO was also young, slim and unproductive at Portland but he did have the potential that DW saw. I don't think he will be like JO but lets not act like a 23 year old sg develops at the same rate as a young 19 year old pf with one year of college ball.
He may or may not be a bust....I know that we are at a cross-roads with him as a Player in his development....I just find it odd ( if not concerning ) that he was used more as a rotational 11/6 Frontcourt Player playing 96 games averaging 18 to 22 mpg over the course of 1.5 seasons ( where he was injured in the 2nd season ) to a guy that couldn't get minutes in a system that would suit his skills.


Hey if many of you want a Kyle Singler as a lottery pick thats your right. I just think Randolph trumps most of players we could draft around 14-17 range.
As mentioned before....I'm holding out to see if we can package the pick to get a Starter. I know that you don't think that we can get anything last season or in the offseason.....but just because you couldn't get something then doesn't mean that you can't get something now. Things have changed for Teams as we get closer to the impending NBA lockout and Teams are re-adjusting their long-term plans. I'm not going to dismiss the possibility that we may not be able to get something for our 1st round pick.....we'll just agree to disagree on this....but I'd rather hold onto the pick in hopes of using it before the trade deadline rather then send off the pick for Randolph. I hope that Randolph can still become the Player that we all hope that he can be....I'm just not going to hold my breath.

But I will say that IF we do decide to send our pick for Randolph.....if we could somehow send out Inferno at the same time ( I know...wishful thinking )...it would be great....but we better get back ( at least ) a 2nd round pick from the Nuggets and/or the Knicks. The Knicks are desperate to get the pick....so we better be getting more then just Randolph.

Pacergeek
01-19-2011, 01:29 PM
I don't know if this is the altercation, but I found it online.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/WnKyOJ-5Paa/Indiana+Pacers+v+Golden+State+Warriors/GESBFtZVtH9/Anthony+Randolph

The game I remember was from last season and it was a home game. Unless that they had the wrong date, Randolph and Danny must have a history of confrontations. Doesn't Danny look terrified? No way Granger wants to play with Randolph.

pwee31
01-19-2011, 07:55 PM
Saw this at the bottom of the Nets ending the pursuit of Melo. Nothing new, but still states Minnesota and Indiana

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Amj2M1N0zHOOlwJpJr5Ah_M5nYcB?slug=aw-netsanthony011911


The Knicks continue to talk with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Indiana Pacers about trading Anthony Randolph for a first-round pick to send to Denver as part of a package for Anthony. The Knicks have assurances they can get a pick for Randolph and have been canvassing the league to find another first-rounder that could be used in a deal for Anthony. There are teams willing to sell their picks for $3 million, especially in what’s considered to be an unspectacular draft class this year.

CableKC
01-20-2011, 03:44 AM
IMHO...if the Pacers are that serious about trading for Randolph....the starting price better be Randolph + some 2nd round pick....cuz the Knicks REALLY need this 1st round pick. Any team sending a 1st rounder to the Knicks would be in the drivers seat IMHO....we should get the most that we can get for it. If the Knicks walk away, I'd be okay with that....the Knicks need the 1st round pick more then we need Randolph ( yes, we're desperate for a PF...but I don't think he's worth it IMHO ).

NapTonius Monk
01-20-2011, 08:54 AM
I wonder if we could be lucky enough to get a 1st pick for Josh(no that I want to trade him just saying that at least he can play in the NBA)
I like Josh, but Randolph would destroy him. The mental part may be holding AR back, but the talent is undeniable.

PacerGuy
01-20-2011, 10:14 AM
IMHO...if the Pacers are that serious about trading for Randolph....the starting price better be Randolph + some 2nd round pick....cuz the Knicks REALLY need this 1st round pick. Any team sending a 1st rounder to the Knicks would be in the drivers seat IMHO....we should get the most that we can get for it. If the Knicks walk away, I'd be okay with that....the Knicks need the 1st round pick more then we need Randolph ( yes, we're desperate for a PF...but I don't think he's worth it IMHO ).

I'd also make them take D.Jones.
This keeps it player for player & if they trade w/ DEN, they will likely give more players then they receive. IMO I think we'd take cash over a pick, so let make the trade look like this:
Pacers 1st (w/ some protection)/D.Jones - A.Randolph/1-3mill cash.