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View Full Version : Who is the worse coach, JOB or Crean?



Pacergeek
01-10-2011, 03:34 PM
they both have had success in previous jobs, but have done nothing but lose tons of games since they have been in coaching in Indiana.

My vote goes to Crean.

hoops_guy
01-10-2011, 03:36 PM
Jim O'Brien.

Unclebuck
01-10-2011, 03:52 PM
It isn't the coaches, maybe it is Indiana

cdash
01-10-2011, 03:54 PM
Crean. Make it a poll.

Since86
01-10-2011, 04:12 PM
Or how about take this to the Lockerroom portion of the site?

Tom Crean has nothing to do with the Pacers, nor the NBA.

cdash
01-10-2011, 04:16 PM
Or how about take this to the Lockerroom portion of the site?

Tom Crean has nothing to do with the Pacers, nor the NBA.

Jim O'Brien does. Ignore the thread.

Since86
01-10-2011, 04:28 PM
Jim O'Brien does. Ignore the thread.


Well in that case....

Who has better hair, Jim or Frankenstein?
Who has worse ideas, Jim or (insert the politician you disagree with most)?

There are other subforums dedicated to those subjects. They should stay there.

judicata
01-10-2011, 04:36 PM
Well in that case....

Who has better hair, Jim or Frankenstein?
Who has worse ideas, Jim or (insert the politician you disagree with most)?

There are other subforums dedicated to those subjects. They should stay there.

By that logic we have mods to police the forums. Let them handle it.

Jon Theodore
01-10-2011, 04:37 PM
This thread being here is offensive, an absolute outrage.

Kegboy
01-10-2011, 04:41 PM
I was wondering how bad things might be in the IU thread, but couldn't bring myself to look. Now I know.

You know, if Tom's that bad, you guys could always hire Jimmy. Larry would let him out of his contract, wouldn't he? :blush:

[edit] And then the Pacers should hire Crean. Grace would probaby get season tickets again, if only for the rare chance to see his brothers-in-law at the game.

Shade
01-10-2011, 04:42 PM
By that logic we have mods to police the forums. Let them handle it.

This. There's a "report post" button for a reason.

Shade
01-10-2011, 04:45 PM
For now, I'm willing to cut Crean a little slack until he has all "his guys" on the roster. But the patience is starting to wear thin after losses like last night.

ChristianDudley
01-10-2011, 04:49 PM
O'Brien because at least Crean is trying and he actually compliments his players and tries to bring out the best in them even when they're losing--he coaches with a lot of encouragement and passion. JOB on the other hand is the complete opposite + sucks at anything to do with coaching.

Since86
01-10-2011, 04:51 PM
This. There's a "report post" button for a reason.

I will never use that function. Just like the ignore feature.

grace
01-10-2011, 04:56 PM
[edit] And then the Pacers should hire Crean. Grace would probaby get season tickets again, if only for the rare chance to see his brothers-in-law at the game.

Only if he hired TR Dunn as an assistant.

cdash
01-10-2011, 05:13 PM
Well in that case....

Who has better hair, Jim or Frankenstein?
Who has worse ideas, Jim or (insert the politician you disagree with most)?

There are other subforums dedicated to those subjects. They should stay there.

Thanks, mod.

Oh, and Jim's hair is better than Frankenstein's flat top.
I don't give a rat's left tit about politics, so I can't answer the second question. But for argument's sake, probably Jim.

cdash
01-10-2011, 05:15 PM
For now, I'm willing to cut Crean a little slack until he has all "his guys" on the roster. But the patience is starting to wear thin after losses like last night.

If this spirals out of control, by all means move it to the other forum, but who on this team isn't his guy? He recruited all these guys. The only senior is Rivers, but Crean was at the helm when Jeremiah decided to transfer here.

D-BONE
01-10-2011, 05:17 PM
The offenses they run look similar. Heavy on dribbling the ball around the perimeter with frequent dribble hand offs/high post screens. Neither displays sufficient ball or off-ball player movement with fundamental scrrening. The ball primarily swings via the dribble, if it even moves beyond one area on a give possession.

cdash
01-10-2011, 05:18 PM
I was wondering how bad things might be in the IU thread, but couldn't bring myself to look. Now I know.

You know, if Tom's that bad, you guys could always hire Jimmy. Larry would let him out of his contract, wouldn't he? :blush:

[edit] And then the Pacers should hire Crean. Grace would probaby get season tickets again, if only for the rare chance to see his brothers-in-law at the game.

I actually think Jim would be a pretty decent college coach. He basically runs Pitino's system, which has been proven successful in college. He could probably recruit pretty well due to his having been an NBA coach for so long. Obviously, if Crean gets a pass for his hockey-esque line changes with his rotation, then the fanbase would be willing to forgive Obie's baffling decisions on that front.

Shade
01-10-2011, 07:15 PM
If this spirals out of control, by all means move it to the other forum, but who on this team isn't his guy? He recruited all these guys. The only senior is Rivers, but Crean was at the helm when Jeremiah decided to transfer here.

The first couple years of recruits for a new coach aren't typically high-caliber (unless you're a cheater, like Ralph Sampson).

pwee31
01-10-2011, 08:04 PM
O'Brien hands down!

I don't get all the flack Crean gets. He came to IU and there was nobody... NOBODY left over.

You can try to dog his recruiting, but seriously who wants to come to a gutted program? I don't care if it's IU and there tradition, no one wants to come and waste a year or 2 trying to rebuild the program.

The only hope is what us IU fans have to look forward to in the next 2-3 years, which is that a group of top high school players decide to come as a group to IU. Once Zeller and the gang get together, than I'll judge Crean b/c IU is not a talented team right now. The fact that they even compete the way they do is a positive to me.

O'Brien has talent. Other teams and coaches believe so, and they've actually beat really good teams to prove so.

Swingman
01-10-2011, 08:05 PM
The first couple years of recruits for a new coach aren't typically high-caliber (unless you're a cheater, like Ralph Sampson).

especially when a team is completely blown up and you can't sell good recruits on anything but playing time and playing for a program with a rich history.

I'd lose count keeping track of all the high level recruits that chose to go elsewhere over IU the past couple years because we didn't have enough talent to compete in their eyes.

BlueNGold
01-10-2011, 08:09 PM
Hopefully Crean.

Go Purdue!

hoops_guy
01-10-2011, 08:10 PM
Crean's x's and o's suck but the clown's x's and o's suck to go along with a ****ty attitude, a pathetic philosophy and system of belief when it comes to basketball, he's biased, and he doesn't accept rebuilding.

Crean would back up his players when their backs are against the wall. With Jim, unless if it is Mike Dunleavy, James Posey, Jeff Foster, or Danny Granger, he could criticize you until you feel smaller than an ant. That takes pathetic to a whole new level.

Sandman21
01-10-2011, 10:18 PM
I'd argue that Crean took over more of a trainwreck than O'Brien did, as hard as that may be to believe.

1984
01-10-2011, 10:31 PM
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg149/autumn59/MartianHeadExplodes.gif

Mackey_Rose
01-10-2011, 10:54 PM
IU Basketball: Challenging Notre Dame Football for most delusional fan base since 1940.

ECKrueger
01-11-2011, 12:26 AM
Crean is worse.

cdash
01-11-2011, 02:25 AM
IU Basketball: Challenging Notre Dame Football for most delusional fan base since 1940.

Yeah, but at least we've won something. :shrug:

Psyren
01-11-2011, 02:54 AM
IU Basketball: Challenging Notre Dame Football for most delusional fan base since 1940.

Absolutely loved that post.

Some fans (not all) are hilarious with the way they live in the past :rolleyes:

Heck, I'm a Colts fan and it bothers me to this day when people refer to the 2006 championship.

croz24
01-11-2011, 03:08 AM
IU Basketball: Challenging Notre Dame Football for most delusional fan base since 1940.

not sure i understand considering iu has 5 ncaa championships in basketball and notre dame has 8 ncaa championships in football since 1940 while purdue as 0 in both categories. and yet purdue fans act like their team matters.

and crean is the worse x's and o's coach of the two by a landslide. hate the youth, no talent argument as well considering elston, creek, and watford were all 4* players on rivals, hulls was indiana mr. basketball, and everyone else was 3*. meanwhile, the butler bulldogs were two last second shots away from winning a ncaa title last year starting 3 sophomores, a junior and a senior while matt howard was the only 4* on their roster and the only 4* they've ever recruited. iu fans need to get the F out of here with their excuses to losing to teams like penn state and northwestern like they have. iu basketball is disgusting to watch nowadays. at least with job we have stretches of very good team play and passing.

Pacergeek
01-11-2011, 12:21 PM
and crean is the worse x's and o's coach of the two by a landslide. hate the youth, no talent argument as well considering elston, creek, and watford were all 4* players on rivals, hulls was indiana mr. basketball, and everyone else was 3*. meanwhile, the butler bulldogs were two last second shots away from winning a ncaa title last year starting 3 sophomores, a junior and a senior while matt howard was the only 4* on their roster and the only 4* they've ever recruited. iu fans need to get the F out of here with their excuses to losing to teams like penn state and northwestern like they have. iu basketball is disgusting to watch nowadays. at least with job we have stretches of very good team play and passing.

my thoughts exactly. How long are the excuses going to last? Northwestern and Penn state have traditionally been the two worst teams in the Big 10. And yet in year 3 with Crean, we have lost to both of them.

xIndyFan
01-11-2011, 12:46 PM
most [if not all] NBA coaches are better coaches than most [if not all] college coaches. college is about recruiting. get the top 5 guys every year like kentucky, and i could coach them. at least until the tourney. look at the number of college coaches, real good college coaches, that have failed as NBA coaches.

i like crean and think he will be successful at IU, but he is not a better coach than JOB. a better recruiter, probably. but not a better coach.

Scot Pollard
01-11-2011, 01:45 PM
hmm lets see both guys cant coach young players but id say jim

dgranger33
01-11-2011, 02:55 PM
Penn State just recently knocked off top 25 Michigan State. Penn State is not that bad and neither is Northwestern. I'd rather lose to them than to barely beat Indiana State.

ECKrueger
01-11-2011, 03:40 PM
Penn State just recently knocked off top 25 Michigan State. Penn State is not that bad and neither is Northwestern. I'd rather lose to them than to barely beat Indiana State.

Good point, it is better to lose than win by 13.

cdash
01-11-2011, 04:19 PM
my thoughts exactly. How long are the excuses going to last? Northwestern and Penn state have traditionally been the two worst teams in the Big 10. And yet in year 3 with Crean, we have lost to both of them.

They are going to last awhile, rest assured. People are going to give him a full pass this season, even if they don't win another game. His recruiting classes are going to buy him at least 5 years here. Year 3 is already a waste. Year 4 we will improve, if only because Zeller is a real life post player. Year 5 is the make or break year for Crean. The Hulls/Creek/Watford/Elston class will be seniors, Zeller will have a year of college under his belt, and the super talented 2012 class will hit campus. If he can't at the very least make the NCAAs then, I think the heat will be on big time.

The Michigan game later this week is a big one. At home against one of the bottom 4 teams in the conference, that's pretty close to a must win right there. We already lost to Penn State at home, can't lose to two bottom feeders on our home court.

Kegboy
01-11-2011, 05:34 PM
I think CD's right, I can't imagine you guys getting rid of him before that recruiting class gets in. Whose to say those guys wouldn't run off if you did?

As to the original question, I just remembered something. Of course Crean is a better coach, he actually got production out of the ball boy Travis Diener.

croz24
01-11-2011, 05:40 PM
I think CD's right, I can't imagine you guys getting rid of him before that recruiting class gets in. Whose to say those guys wouldn't run off if you did?

but who's to say yogi, hanner, patterson, or jurkin stay committed to iu given their losing ways? fortunately, zeller and etherington are signed, but the others, including hartman, davis, lyles, and blackmon are not and may very well decommit if crean doesn't start winning and iu continues to lose to the big 10's worst.

Mackey_Rose
01-11-2011, 06:10 PM
My post was a joke, but on a serious note IU fans, your expectations are completely unrealistic if you think Crean should be fired already.

cdash
01-11-2011, 06:30 PM
My post was a joke, but on a serious note IU fans, your expectations are completely unrealistic if you think Crean should be fired already.

My expectation is progress. I haven't seen it. Obviously, firing him now would be incredibly short sighted and it would do much more harm than good to the program. I understand that. I just don't think he's a good coach, at all.

croz24
01-11-2011, 06:58 PM
personally, i wanted lavin instead of sampson. i wanted lavin instead of crean. hated his system at marquette, hate it even more now that he's at iu. i also, however, never thought lavin was a bad coach while at ucla as his teams were always competitive come tourney time and he was one of the best recruiters in the business. now that he's at st. john's and i've seen the staff he has assembled there as well as the #2 ranked class in the country coming in next year, lavin has turned st. john's into a sleeping giant in just half of a year.

Mackey_Rose
01-11-2011, 07:14 PM
personally, i wanted lavin instead of sampson. i wanted lavin instead of crean. hated his system at marquette, hate it even more now that he's at iu. i also, however, never thought lavin was a bad coach while at ucla as his teams were always competitive come tourney time and he was one of the best recruiters in the business. now that he's at st. john's and i've seen the staff he has assembled there as well as the #2 ranked class in the country coming in next year, lavin has turned st. john's into a sleeping giant in just half of a year.

Isn't wanting Lavin as a coach at IU, at least, partly sacrilege considering is past as a Boiler?

croz24
01-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Isn't wanting Lavin as a coach at IU, at least, partly sacrilege considering is past as a Boiler?

am i a "diehard" iu fan? yes. but i have always cheered and rooted for all indiana colleges to succeed. it's more about state pride than college pride with me. i hate for purdue that hummel went down again given that they would have been a top 3 team this year and probable title contenders. would have loved to see purdue win a championship. so when it comes to lavin, the fact that he was an assistant at purdue under keady only gives him that much more credibility as a coach in my eyes. he has midwest ties and learned from one of the greats and supposedly wanted the iu job. sure, crean has a similar background but the difference is crean coaches NOTHING like izzo coaches.

Mackey_Rose
01-11-2011, 08:01 PM
am i a "diehard" iu fan? yes. but i have always cheered and rooted for all indiana colleges to succeed. it's more about state pride than college pride with me. i hate for purdue that hummel went down again given that they would have been a top 3 team this year and probable title contenders. would have loved to see purdue win a championship. so when it comes to lavin, the fact that he was an assistant at purdue under keady only gives him that much more credibility as a coach in my eyes. he has midwest ties and learned from one of the greats and supposedly wanted the iu job. sure, crean has a similar background but the difference is crean coaches NOTHING like izzo coaches.

We are in the same boat then. I root for IU except when they play Purdue.

ECKrueger
01-11-2011, 08:02 PM
You guys make me sick.

IUfan4life
01-11-2011, 08:15 PM
Pudue is all that is wrong in this world.

Tom Crean took this job when there was one, ONE player on the roster, and made a team out of a bunch of leftovers no one wanted. Mo Creek got hurt, Watford is too small, Hulls isn't a point guard, and we are just waiting for Verdell to graduate. Elston isn't a center. We don't have the personnel to run his offense. Zeller didn't have to come here. He could have easily gone to Butler. Every recruit Crean has targeted he has gotten. stop with the Crean hate, everyone because you don't really know what you are talking about

Kegboy
01-11-2011, 10:54 PM
A couple things:

One, I wanted Lavin instead of Painter. Of course, supposedly Keady did too, but Burke wouldn't go for it.

Two, if Crean had taken the Illinois job like he was supposed to, Bruce Webber would be the Purdue coach right now.

Oh, and here's a super extra bonus for you Hoosiers. Back in the 90's I very much wanted Kelvin Sampson for when Keady retired. :whew:

Pacergeek
01-11-2011, 10:58 PM
Pudue is all that is wrong in this world.

Tom Crean took this job when there was one, ONE player on the roster, and made a team out of a bunch of leftovers no one wanted. Mo Creek got hurt, Watford is too small, Hulls isn't a point guard, and we are just waiting for Verdell to graduate. Elston isn't a center. We don't have the personnel to run his offense. Zeller didn't have to come here. He could have easily gone to Butler. Every recruit Crean has targeted he has gotten. stop with the Crean hate, everyone because you don't really know what you are talking about

sounds a lot like the Mike Davis optimism IU fans had to go through. "Wait till Bracey Wright comes to IU", or "wait for the DJ white, James Hardy, and AJ Ratliff class." Those guys got here, and IU still was not very good.

grace
01-12-2011, 05:19 PM
Oh, and here's a super extra bonus for you Hoosiers. Back in the 90's I very much wanted Kelvin Sampson for when Keady retired. :whew:

:jawdrop:

IUfan4life
01-12-2011, 05:39 PM
sounds a lot like the Mike Davis optimism IU fans had to go through. "Wait till Bracey Wright comes to IU", or "wait for the DJ white, James Hardy, and AJ Ratliff class." Those guys got here, and IU still was not very good.

Tom Crean is not Mike Davis.

hoosierguy
01-12-2011, 10:44 PM
IU Basketball: Challenging Notre Dame Football for most delusional fan base since 1940.

Yes, why would fans of a team that has won FIVE NCAA titles have high expectations?

If they just enjoyed conference titles and early flameouts in the postseason, they would root for Purdue.

hoosierguy
01-12-2011, 10:47 PM
but who's to say yogi, hanner, patterson, or jurkin stay committed to iu given their losing ways? fortunately, zeller and etherington are signed, but the others, including hartman, davis, lyles, and blackmon are not and may very well decommit if crean doesn't start winning and iu continues to lose to the big 10's worst.

Well, you keep hoping for that because it isn't going to happen. All of those players committed to IU after a 10 win season- obviously they weren't concerned with the quality of the team years before they would even don the cream and crimson.

Once Zeller signed, Ferrell was a lock. He isn't going anywhere. Hartman, Davis, and Blackmon grew up IU fans and know what the potential is for IU basketball and that they will go a long way to adding to that storied legacy.

hoosierguy
01-12-2011, 10:51 PM
sounds a lot like the Mike Davis optimism IU fans had to go through. "Wait till Bracey Wright comes to IU", or "wait for the DJ white, James Hardy, and AJ Ratliff class." Those guys got here, and IU still was not very good.

IU did get a lot better when DJ White got to campus. They made the NCAA tournament in thee of his four seasons and had a record of 43-23 in the Big 10.

IU will add THREE, perhaps more, five star players to their roster in the next two seasons. Then we will get to see what type of coach Crean is. His Marquette teams played nothing like his teams at IU, so we know his system works with the right personnel.

cdash
01-13-2011, 12:46 AM
IU did get a lot better when DJ White got to campus. They made the NCAA tournament in thee of his four seasons and had a record of 43-23 in the Big 10.

IU will add THREE, perhaps more, five star players to their roster in the next two seasons. Then we will get to see what type of coach Crean is. His Marquette teams played nothing like his teams at IU, so we know his system works with the right personnel.

Listen, I'm fine with this point of view. But stop with the complete and utter BS that is the bolded statement. We know what kind of coach he is. The man has been a head coach for 13 freaking years. How many do they have to coach before we know who they are? When they finally get 5 star talent? So really, we don't know what kind of coach Bo Ryan is. Or most of the other coaches in D1.

ECKrueger
01-13-2011, 01:40 AM
At least Purdue fans can all agree Painter is a good coach, and he does it without all the 5 star recruits.

pacer4ever
01-13-2011, 01:43 AM
At least Purdue fans can all agree Painter is a good coach, and he does it without all the 5 star recruits.

I love Painter. My uncle's the sheriff of Tipp. co. So i get free tickets to all they game. Can only make it to a couple a yr but I love watching the Boliers. They play the game te righ way well coached.

cdash
01-13-2011, 04:42 AM
At least Purdue fans can all agree Painter is a good coach, and he does it without all the 5 star recruits.

Yes, Painter is a very good coach.

Mackey_Rose
01-13-2011, 07:10 AM
Yes, why would fans of a team that has won FIVE NCAA titles have high expectations?

If they just enjoyed conference titles and early flameouts in the postseason, they would root for Purdue.

The last one came almost a quarter century ago. A lot has changed since then. IU fans act like they are entitled to winning the national title every year.

After what happened with Sampson, I don't think it is fair to judge Crean based on wins and losses. Yet. He is bringing in the players. If he can't get it done with them, then you step back and take a look at things, but right now his recruiting is more important than what he is doing on game nights.

cdash
01-13-2011, 03:47 PM
The last one came almost a quarter century ago. A lot has changed since then. IU fans act like they are entitled to winning the national title every year.

After what happened with Sampson, I don't think it is fair to judge Crean based on wins and losses. Yet. He is bringing in the players. If he can't get it done with them, then you step back and take a look at things, but right now his recruiting is more important than what he is doing on game nights.

If you watched them night in and night out, you would be pretty concerned by what you saw, I assure you. Even the Crean-lovers would admit that there are some concerning signs.

For the record, IU fans don't feel entitled to winning a title every year, but we do expect to be a tournament team every year (obviously not now, but when this excruciating rebuild is done), and we expect to compete for Big Ten titles most years, with deep tournament runs the norm. For a program with the tradition that ours has, that isn't too much to ask for.