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View Full Version : Tonight, I blame the youth...not Jim



Shade
01-07-2011, 09:41 PM
Although the TJ/DC experiment was made of fail (as we all instantly knew it would be), Jim coached a pretty good game tonight. The Spurs beat us primarily due to experience vs. youth in the clutch.

Sookie
01-07-2011, 09:44 PM
Yea, we lost because they have Manu and we don't.

TJ/DC was made of fail, but I thought we'd lose the entire game.

pwee31
01-07-2011, 09:44 PM
Yeah, Jim went with Tyler, went with Roy for the most part. Team just didn't execute or make plays down the stretch.

Only O'Brien fault was the Collison, Ford and Rush combo that gave the Spurs their last late push, but he quickly went back to Granger.... who I really don't want to talk about right now.

hoops_guy
01-07-2011, 09:45 PM
Tonight, I blame Danny Granger...not Jim or the youth.

Who in the hell, besides John Starks, goes 0-2 from the line like that in the closing minutes?!

Kamiyohk
01-07-2011, 09:46 PM
Although the TJ/DC experiment was made of fail (as we all instantly knew it would be), Jim coached a pretty good game tonight. The Spurs beat us primarily due to experience vs. youth in the clutch.

DISAGREE ....sorry

pwee31
01-07-2011, 09:47 PM
I would have like Tyler to see the ball a little more down the stretch in the 4th.

Aw Heck
01-07-2011, 09:47 PM
I can't blame Jim either. He finally pulled his head out of his *** (or someone removed it for him) by actually playing Tyler and benching Posey. And surprise, it worked out well, despite the loss.

It wasn't enough to beat the Spurs tonight, but the Spurs are one of the best teams in the league. Most teams don't have enough to beat them. At the very least, it was enough to keep the Pacers ahead for most of the game.

I can only hope that Obie doesn't use this loss as an excuse to bench Tyler again and go to small ball.

Unclebuck
01-07-2011, 09:50 PM
Blame the youth? No way.

Blame Danny primarily, go back and re-watch the fourth quarter, he was horrible, bad playafter bad play, turnovers, bad shots, missed free throws. he was beyond bad. A team is only as good as its best player. I honestly was hoping he fouled out

Next Roy our second best player, took some horible shots and missed badly.

If your two best players cannot score in the 4th quarter you are going to lose

Strummer
01-07-2011, 09:50 PM
I still blame the coach. Tyler went from not playing at all to playing the longest stretches of anyone. He needed breaks.

Why bench Josh, Posey, and Solo? It's almost seems like O'Brien was told he had to play Tyler so he decided to throw a fit and not play anyone else.

I would have liked to have seen McBob get a few minutes at least when Tyler was fading.

Sandman21
01-07-2011, 09:51 PM
I would have like Tyler to see the ball a little more down the stretch in the 4th.

Did you see how much time Tyler played tonight? I don't think he's quite ready to be playing 36MPG... especially with Josh getting a DNP-CD tonight.

Tyler was absolutely GASSED at the end of the third quarter (I'm pretty sure he played the entire time).

Dr. Awesome
01-07-2011, 09:51 PM
Jim lost us the game. When did the TJ/DC experiement start? When did the Spurs start the come back?

How many offensive rebounds did the Spurs get during that stretch?

Shade
01-07-2011, 09:53 PM
Blame the youth? No way.

Blame Danny primarily, go back and re-watch the fourth quarter, he was horrible, bad playafter bad play, turnovers, bad shots, missed free throws. he was beyond bac

I count Danny as part of "the youth."

Yes, he's been in a slump lately, but that happens pretty much every season around this time. He did choke tonight though, no doubt about it.

pwee31
01-07-2011, 09:54 PM
Did you see how much time Tyler played tonight? I don't think he's quite ready to be playing 36MPG... especially with Josh getting a DNP-CD tonight.

Tyler was absolutely GASSED at the end of the third quarter (I'm pretty sure he played the entire time).

He was gassed at the end of the 3rd for sure, doesn't mean he shouldn't have gotten any touches late in the 4th :hmm:

purdue101
01-07-2011, 09:54 PM
JOB coached a good game tonight, finally. Our offense went stagnant in the 4th, primarily b/c of the spurs D, which was superb.

Regardless, good to see Tyler break out. There is now no excuse not to play him more often. It may not be pretty, but he's a game changer with his energy.

Danny was awful tonight. As I said in the game thread, he has regressed quite a bit since the 08/09 season. I hope the ESPN report is true and we are shopping him.

Merz
01-07-2011, 09:55 PM
I don't blame the youth. I blame our two main "veteran leaders". Granger was awful in the fourth and Dunleavy shot the most idiotic shot of the game.

The refusal to call Duncan for any over the backs and the two lame offensive fouls on Danny didn't help.

Shade
01-07-2011, 09:57 PM
Jim lost us the game. When did the TJ/DC experiement start? When did the Spurs start the come back?

How many offensive rebounds did the Spurs get during that stretch?

Very true, but no coach is perfect. Tonight (for a change), the good far outweighed the bad.

Unclebuck
01-07-2011, 09:59 PM
Jim lost us the game. When did the TJ/DC experiement start? When did the Spurs start the come back?

How many offensive rebounds did the Spurs get during that stretch?

Lets see the DC and TJ were in for about 2 minutes and a 7 point lead went down to 2 or 3.

But what about when the 15 point lead quickly went down to 6 - DC and TJ were not in the game then

Trophy
01-07-2011, 10:00 PM
I blame Danny. He needs to play better than this. This has been terrible and he can play better than this.

As the leader, he needs to close out games, take advantage especially at the free throw line.

I miss the 08-09 and 09-10 Danny. That was the leader.

I said in the game thread, the 2009, 26 PPG Danny Granger playing with the players we have now and his improved defense would be amazing and huge for us.

It was very sloppy at the end.

Unclebuck
01-07-2011, 10:03 PM
Anyone going to credit Jim for not playing Posey. I'll credit jim for not playing Josh

odeez
01-07-2011, 10:03 PM
I don't blame DG and Roy totally for the lose. But with the way they played in the second half, who else can you blame outside of the usual suspect?

HC
01-07-2011, 10:04 PM
Danny all the way. I seen where you included Danny in the youth, but I don't put him in that category. Regardless of the shortcomings that may have been due to our youth tonight, they put us in a position to win a ballgame against the best team in the league. Danny Granger choked it up big time.

speakout4
01-07-2011, 10:05 PM
Blame the youth? No way.

Blame Danny primarily, go back and re-watch the fourth quarter, he was horrible, bad playafter bad play, turnovers, bad shots, missed free throws. he was beyond bad. A team is only as good as its best player. I honestly was hoping he fouled out

Next Roy our second best player, took some horible shots and missed badly.

If your two best players cannot score in the 4th quarter you are going to lose
I sure hope they don't test Brandon tonight.

beast23
01-07-2011, 10:07 PM
Lets see the DC and TJ were in for about 2 minutes and a 7 point lead went down to 2 or 3.

But what about when the 15 point lead quickly went down to 6 - DC and TJ were not in the game thenGood point. Besides that, one problem we were having was taking care of the ball. Seems reasonable to have at least tried 2 PGs when your team is coughing up the ball on many possessions... while missing shots of most of the others.

jcouts
01-07-2011, 10:08 PM
Yeah, Jim went with Tyler, went with Roy for the most part. Team just didn't execute or make plays down the stretch.

Only O'Brien fault was the Collison, Ford and Rush combo that gave the Spurs their last late push, but he quickly went back to Granger.... who I really don't want to talk about right now.

not one part of that push (primarily the 2 turnovers and the bad shot) can be blamed on Collison, Ford or Jim.

Roaming Gnome
01-07-2011, 10:08 PM
I tip my cap to Jim for coaching a pretty good game tonight that probably beats 25 teams in this league. Yeah, Danny played a pretty poor game down the strech, but we were still right there.

They are the 24-6 Spurs afterall, so I say good game and get ready for the road trip that wil test this new rotation!

PacersAllDay
01-07-2011, 10:11 PM
I blame the Spurs. They just decided they weren't going to lose. Too good.

beast23
01-07-2011, 10:11 PM
I don't blame DG and Roy totally for the lose. But with the way they played in the second half, who else can you blame outside of the usual suspect?I think Granger was forcing opportunities with the ball rather than simply remaining patient and pushing the ball back to the PG. And, second to the last possession we had was a prime example of this. He did not immediately have the shot after receiving the ball, and did not have a drive opportunity, yet forced the ball inside.

Hibbert ended up with the ball within 5 feet of the basket, but was covered extremely well.

I personally believe that since Granger did not have a great opportunity to drive the ball in the first place, he should have known to push the ball back to his PG.

Day-V
01-07-2011, 10:12 PM
Everything Reggie Miller was in the final minutes of games, Danny Granger is not. Danny Granger might as well change his name to Bizarro Reggie Miller.

tmhall11
01-07-2011, 10:14 PM
I still blame Jim!!! I don't give excuses for him not having his team prepared.

speakout4
01-07-2011, 10:16 PM
I tip my cap to Jim for coaching a pretty good game tonight that probably beats 25 teams in this league. Yeah, Danny played a pretty poor game down the strech, but we were still right there.

They are the 24-6 Spurs afterall, so I say good game and get ready for the road trip that wil test this new rotation!
Sorry, we shouldn't be losing a 15 point lead that late in the game. No way to rationalize that.

Trophy
01-07-2011, 10:17 PM
We did lose to a good team, but we could've played with more care and close out the game.

We've had problems with closing out games for years now.

Guys need to defend without fouling and play even harder than they were the entire game because especially the really good team, they won't go down without a fight and they'll play even harder which means we need to step up.

Trophy
01-07-2011, 10:19 PM
Everything Reggie Miller was in the final minutes of games, Danny Granger is not. Danny Granger might as well change his name to Bizarro Reggie Miller.

I really miss this Danny Granger...:(

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...and that wasn't luck. He was just that trustworthy with the ball in his hands.

Unclebuck
01-07-2011, 10:21 PM
I'll say during the third quarter and generally watching tyler tonight was one of the highlights of the season - after the lakers and heat games

speakout4
01-07-2011, 10:24 PM
I'm tired of seeing TJ let the inbounds pass bounce a bunch of times before he picks up his dribble. The other team is well in position to defend and if he is waiting for his guys to position themselves that means our guys don't know what they're doing. He is motioning guys into position way too much.

Roaming Gnome
01-07-2011, 10:25 PM
Sorry, we shouldn't be losing a 15 point lead that late in the game. No way to rationalize that.
Young teams lose leads like that to experienced teams like the Spurs. I guess I have a hard time overlooking that in my desire to poo poo all things Jim O'Brien.

speakout4
01-07-2011, 10:27 PM
Young teams lose leads like that to experienced teams like the Spurs. I guess I have a hard time overlooking that in my desire to poo poo all things Jim O'Brien.
i thought we already established that it wasn't youth that lost this game.

Unclebuck
01-07-2011, 10:28 PM
Another big reson why the pacers lost the lead is that Tyler got tired. he ws so good in the third he had to stay n, but I think he was spent in the fourth quarter. And also the Spurs put McDyess on him in the fourth and that was huge

How good was Tyler tonight

spazzxb
01-07-2011, 10:29 PM
DISAGREE ....sorry

Kinda backed yourself into a corner with your F word thread, huh. Imagine if you did agree.

Unclebuck
01-07-2011, 10:30 PM
i thought we already established that it wasn't youth that lost this game.

I said it wasn't the youth as in the young players such as George, Tyler. I don't think Granger is young and Roy isn' that young. So I don't blam the young players, but i'll say the Spurs experience won them the game

OrganizedConfusion
01-07-2011, 10:30 PM
I really miss this Danny Granger...:(

...and that wasn't luck. He was just that trustworthy with the ball in his hands.

I do too, I'm so disappointed he passed off to Hibbert with the game on the line. He was wide open when he caught the ball.

Major Cold
01-07-2011, 10:46 PM
McDyess played Tyler really well.


Granger played horribly. Roy was horrible from the field and so was Darren.

I would have liked to have seen some sets ran for PG. But all in all this is what I expect in rotations minus some minutes from Tyler.

pacer4ever
01-07-2011, 10:47 PM
Everything Reggie Miller was in the final minutes of games, Danny Granger is not. Danny Granger might as well change his name to Bizarro Reggie Miller.

DG is not an iso player JOB called an iso for DG on our 2 to last possesion. Why not run him off screens thats his game,

Psyren
01-07-2011, 10:48 PM
Now I just hope Jim is smart enough to start Tyler next game, and not bench him.

Still, to be honest, I've seen enough of Granger. I like the guy. He's a talented player. But I'm not opposed to trading him at this point.

Oh, and there's no way to defend blowing a 15 point lead. No excuse for that.

D-BONE
01-07-2011, 10:54 PM
DG is not an iso player JOB called an iso for DG on our 2 to last possesion. Why not run him off screens thats his game,

Couldn't agree more. Coaching staff needs to just realize the obvious. DG will never be that good creating off the dribble in one-on-one situations. It's the proverbial forcing the square peg in the round hole.

EDIT: Except the problem in my observation with your suggestion is we are not a strong team at the fundamentals of setting screens and using them to get open. The Spurs put on a clinic on that very fundamental as well as ball movement in the fourth quarter. I hope our players and coaches observed. Maybe they can learn something.

graphic-er
01-07-2011, 10:56 PM
Just got back from the game. Tyler was amazing. The fans really want to see him play. They were pumped and cheering just cause he got fouled taking a terrible shot!

Danny has been in a slump, and he definitely wilted down the stretch. He is going to have to change his mojo and go at it a bit harder, anticapte that you are going to get double teamed when you touch the ball. In now way do I give JOB any credit for his coaching tonight. He put us in a position to lose that game with the 2 PG rotation late in the 4th. That gave the Spurs a huge run, and while you may say that the 2 PGs didn't have anything to do with our woes there... I say you are wrong. That unit has rarely played together. To think that they could churn out a win in crunch time is just irrational. IN CRUNCH TIME YOU NEED CHEMISTRY. No wonder we didn't get off any good shots in that span of 2-3 minutes. That is just a dumb move by our coach, he out coached himself. I bet POPS was just giggling when he seen 2 short PGs on the floor for us. He probably whispered to his assistants we got this **** in the bag.... You can't win against the best team in the league with 2 pgs on the floor. We are the only team in the NBA who would even dare to play 2 pgs at the same time at crunch time.

Also what in the world was JOB thinking taking Roy out with 22 seconds left for Foster on defense? That was terrible. Roy is our best shot blocker. Jeff Foster can barely jump off the floor. Of course he was going to get called for a foul there. Give me a guy with long arms who can force a tougher shot for Ginobli. Then JOB puts him in for offense during foul shots. What's Roy to do? His coach as no confidence in him down the stretch.

and finally for the last desperate shot of the game. We put in Posey who has not played the entire game and of course he gets the ball. That is just stupid. Posey should have been trying to set a screen or a pick to get one of the 4 other players open, Posey is a decoy. Rather does it work to have all 5 players on the court 3 pt shooters in that situation. You need someone who is going to focus on getting guys open on the in-bounds pass. Hell run the picket fence! Just don't put the guy who hasn't played the whole game in a position to try and tie it up.

WE HAVE THE WORST COACH IN THE NBA.

And Larry Bird was sitting there watching all this transpire. What is he thinking.....

Unclebuck
01-07-2011, 11:01 PM
Also what in the world was JOB thinking taking Roy out with 22 seconds left for Foster on defense? That was terrible. Roy is our best shot blocker. Jeff Foster can barely jump off the floor. Of course he was going to get called for a foul there. Give me a guy with long arms who can force a tougher shot for Ginobli. Then JOB puts him in for offense during foul shots. What's Roy to do? His coach as no confidence in him down the stretch.


....


Jeff is much better than Roy at guarding Tim

speakout4
01-07-2011, 11:03 PM
Just got back from the game. Tyler was amazing. The fans really want to see him play. They were pumped and cheering just cause he got fouled taking a terrible shot!

Danny has been in a slump, and he definitely wilted down the stretch. He is going to have to change his mojo and go at it a bit harder, anticapte that you are going to get double teamed when you touch the ball. In now way do I give JOB any credit for his coaching tonight. He put us in a position to lose that game with the 2 PG rotation late in the 4th. That gave the Spurs a huge run, and while you may say that the 2 PGs didn't have anything to do with our woes there... I say you are wrong. That unit has rarely played together. To think that they could churn out a win in crunch time is just irrational. IN CRUNCH TIME YOU NEED CHEMISTRY. No wonder we didn't get off any good shots in that span of 2-3 minutes. That is just a dumb move by our coach, he out coached himself. I bet POPS was just giggling when he seen 2 short PGs on the floor for us. He probably whispered to his assistants we got this **** in the bag.... You can't win against the best team in the league with 2 pgs on the floor. We are the only team in the NBA who would even dare to play 2 pgs at the same time at crunch time.

Also what in the world was JOB thinking taking Roy out with 22 seconds left for Foster on defense? That was terrible. Roy is our best shot blocker. Jeff Foster can barely jump off the floor. Of course he was going to get called for a foul there. Give me a guy with long arms who can force a tougher shot for Ginobli. Then JOB puts him in for offense during foul shots. What's Roy to do? His coach as no confidence in him down the stretch.

and finally for the last desperate shot of the game. We put in Posey who has not played the entire game and of course he gets the ball. That is just stupid. Posey should have been trying to set a screen or a pick to get one of the 4 other players open, Posey is a decoy. Rather does it work to have all 5 players on the court 3 pt shooters in that situation. You need someone who is going to focus on getting guys open on the in-bounds pass. Hell run the picket fence! Just don't put the guy who hasn't played the whole game in a position to try and tie it up.

WE HAVE THE WORST COACH IN THE NBA.

And Larry Bird was sitting there watching all this transpire. What is he thinking.....
Larry was thinking-- thank god --Danny wasn't taking one of his crap shots.

D-BONE
01-07-2011, 11:04 PM
I'm tired of JO'B and his inept offense.

However, he was not the primary factor in tonight's loss. The players choked, in particular our alleged big three of DG, RH, DC. These are the guys who were supposed to lead our offense and they essentially had no significant impact on that end of the floor.

I will credit Roy for his board work and shot blocking. The other two didn't add much in other areas either.

Also, I thought we played well overall on defense. And you have to admit JOB must get some credit for our improvement in that area this year.

All that said...please show him and Granger (unless he recovers from this megaslump soon) the door.

BlueNGold
01-07-2011, 11:09 PM
Jim will probably bench Tyler for having a rough 4th quarter.

Seriously, why would you have the slow and aging James Posey come off the bench cold and shoot the last shot when you have much better options?

Collison, Granger, Dunleavy and Rush were all warm and are all shooting the 3 at a much better clip. Even McRoberts is shooting it much better.

El Pacero
01-07-2011, 11:12 PM
I'm not a JOB basher by any means, but man did those two point guards make us mad. I could have sworn we were up by 9 and then by only like 3 in around two minutes with the two PGs in. All of us in Area 55 were thinking what the heck?...and the players had to be, too. The two missed free throws and Roy's shot at the end didn't help things, but everything was going good and it seemed to us like the two point guards just killed us.

If we would have won, I would have given all of the credit to Tyler.

Shabazz
01-07-2011, 11:14 PM
I would have like Tyler to see the ball a little more down the stretch in the 4th.


He has a knack for scoring and/or drawing fouls in those situations.

Based on O'Brien's track record, you'll have to wait until midway through Hansbrough's 2nd contract before he actually calls a play for Tyler in crunch time.

Shabazz
01-07-2011, 11:19 PM
It's almost seems like O'Brien was told he had to play Tyler so he decided to throw a fit and not play anyone else.




I've been wondering if O'Brien was ordered to play Tyler.

Unclebuck
01-07-2011, 11:21 PM
Just for the record: Ford and collison played together for 1 minute 26 seconds.

graphic-er
01-07-2011, 11:25 PM
Just for the record: Ford and collison played together for 1 minute 26 seconds.

i hope that's the last time those 2 play at the same time. Dumb coaching....

Naptown_Seth
01-07-2011, 11:25 PM
I blame the guy who called a timeout play that involved getting Danny the ball going to the rim with 8 seconds left, so that Danny then decided to hold up and kill more clock which ruined his brief advantage and resulted in him forcing it to Roy and Roy forcing a bad shot.

If it's 2 seconds left Danny goes ahead with the shot attempt. He clearly didn't want to leave so much time on the clock IMO.


Pop calls a late timeout and it results in that George Hill shot and 1. It's not like he only had to roll the ball out and let Tim and Manu save the day, though he also called that nice PnR for them late as well.



And if you are going to blame the youth, I assume that means INEXPERIENCE and not youthful vitality and stamina. Oddly there is a solution for lack of experience, one that could have been implemented 24 months ago or more.




Collison, Granger, Dunleavy and Rush were all warm and are all shooting the 3 at a much better clip. Even McRoberts is shooting it much better.
What, you don't think a 32% shooter should be the option when he's ice cold with .8 of a second left?

Some of this stuff really is comically suspicious. You'd think with all the recent free time he might have read up on his own team's stats. I mean of all the times to NOT go super small and have Danny as the PF shooting the 3...




Also, how can you have game time to play TJ and Collison together and yet have no time for Price? Is this the return of TJ and Jack combining for 75 total minutes in some games?

Sookie
01-07-2011, 11:29 PM
Just for the record: Ford and collison played together for 1 minute 26 seconds.

And the lead managed to shrink considerably. Just like it did the last two times they played together.

Not only is playing the two together an offensive nightmare, but it takes the whole team out of rhythm. So even after one of them is subbed out, there's no momentum offensively.

It's just plain stupid to play them both together. If you're going to play a two point guards together, Price has got to be one of them. And I'm not even that okay with that (but if the other team is playing a zone its not awful. Watson and Price weren't god awful together last season). But AJ at least brings different skills and is actually taller than 6 feet.

kester99
01-07-2011, 11:36 PM
Not only is playing the two together an offensive nightmare, but it takes the whole team out of rhythm. So even after one of them is subbed out, there's no momentum offensively.

That's what I saw.

El Pacero
01-07-2011, 11:40 PM
Not home yet to watch it again, but I think I remember now that TJ got killed with DC there at the end and we lost our lead. And he played way too long of a stretch in the 1st half. Other than that, it was great to see Tyler and PG get minutes, but as others have said McRoberts should have still gotten some. This was a really fun game to watch, but I knew we were going to blow it somehow late in the fourth. Would have loved to beat Lakers, Heat and Spurs just to have something to talk about.

spazzxb
01-07-2011, 11:46 PM
Anyone going to credit Jim for not playing Posey. I'll credit jim for not playing Josh

I mentioned his lack of minutes in a different thread, but he did get .8 seconds of playing time.

spazzxb
01-07-2011, 11:48 PM
That's what I saw.

You also saw a lineup without Granger or Dunleavy, this rarely happens and also can cause chaos.

Naptown_Seth
01-07-2011, 11:55 PM
They are the 24-6 Spurs afterall, so I say good game and get ready for the road trip that wil test this new rotation!
Spurs are on road game 3 of 3, having lost in NY on TUE and Boston on WED.

Pacers last played in NYC on Sunday night, giving them a highly unusual 4 non-game days in a row at home.

Parker and Manu both showed tired legs tonight IMO which was a big factor in their 3-11 and 6-15 outing.

And this rested Pacers team only used 6 guys in heavy minutes and made no use at all of regular starter McRoberts when Tyler was clearly gassed from going from DNP to main guy instantly.

The road tired team scored 26 points in the 4th, the home team with more rest than teams typically ever get in a season scored 12 points in the 4th.


This game played out like the Pacers were the ones on the road trip and the Spurs were the ones with all the rest. So what's it going to look like when the Pacers actually are the guys on the road trip?

By the time they hit Denver they might be losing by 30 points.

graphic-er
01-07-2011, 11:57 PM
Roy had a double double tonight and that's encouraging. We out rebounded the Spurs. But Roys main problem is that he only has 2 gears on offense down low. 1st gear where he holds the ball too damn long and slowly works his way into the paint. And then Panic gear when the shot clock is low or crunch time, were he literally just throws it up on the glass. He needs a bit more nuance in his game, needs to add in a pump fake, or should shimmy, or an up and under type move. Something to mix up his shots.

joeyd
01-08-2011, 12:07 AM
...Tyler was amazing. The fans really want to see him play.....

...In now way do I give JOB any credit for his coaching tonight. He put us in a position to lose that game with the 2 PG rotation late in the 4th.

...Also what in the world was JOB thinking taking Roy out with 22 seconds left for Foster on defense? That was terrible. Roy is our best shot blocker. Jeff Foster can barely jump off the floor. Of course he was going to get called for a foul there.

and finally for the last desperate shot of the game. We put in Posey who has not played the entire game and of course he gets the ball. That is just stupid. Posey should have been trying to set a screen or a pick to get one of the 4 other players open, Posey is a decoy. ...Just don't put the guy who hasn't played the whole game in a position to try and tie it up.

First comment: Agreed. The rest: Disagree.
As for your first point that I disagree with, coaching helped to put us up by 15; I didn't agree with everything JOB did, but poor execution and good defense led to the collapse. Second point: I knew it wouldn't be long before someone took a shot at Jeff. Granted, it wasn't his best game, but to suggest that Roy might have defended that particular play better, and without fouling...well, maybe you might have noticed that Roy still isn't the best person at avoiding stupid fouls. Last point: Posey was put in the game because the 3-pointer is his special niche with the team. The argument that he should not have entered the game or taken the shot b/c he did not play at all until this point is not valid, as everyone would miss their first shots of the game and the game would be scoreless for 10 minutes if you had to first wait for players to warm up. A player is expected to hit their shots no matter when they enter the game, and I dare say that if you look at every player's first shots from all games, it would match their total %FG.

In the end, we lost to a superior team, but also because DC is the closest thing we had to a go-to guy.

Naptown_Seth
01-08-2011, 12:13 AM
Just for the record: Ford and collison played together for 1 minute 26 seconds.
For the record, the question is why was this number > 0, period?


Oh, they've got 2 PGs in with Parker and Hill, definitely a good idea to get a smaller PG out there to guard Hill, what with him officially being called a PG and not a bigger guard able to shoot at will over smaller PGs.

In 86 seconds of this 2 PG play there were 3 possessions by the Spurs and 2 by the Pacers. The Pacers lost both on steals and the Spurs scored 7 points.

7 points in 86 seconds is a scoring rate of 234 points in a full game.

From the time JOB made that Collison for Granger sub at 6:16 left the Pacers scored 6 points, NONE from the field and TWO ON TECHNICAL FTs.




Sidenote - remember when JOB used Foster as the great defensive center ace only to have the in-bounds alley oop go right at him for the loss? Well in comes Foster as the defensive ace and the Spurs run PnR right at him and Manu blows past him to draw the foul for the game winning FTs.

Josh is quicker than Jeff at this point, jumps higher and is far more capable as a defender when put into isos or PnRs at this point. Using him as the defensive sub late there makes a lot more sense than using Posey to 3pt bomb for the late win.

Sandman21
01-08-2011, 12:38 AM
He was gassed at the end of the 3rd for sure, doesn't mean he shouldn't have gotten any touches late in the 4th :hmm:

I actually agree, I wanted to see him keep getting touches in the 4th (somewhere in the game thread, I have a post calling for JOB to pull him so he'd be fresh in the final minutes), I just think that going from lucky to get 5 minutes a game to 36 minutes is a little extreme. (Approximately reason number 456432 that Jim O'Brien needs to be tarred and feathered before he gets run out of town on a railcar- the crazed rotations!)

I wouldn't be shocked if Tyler didn't play too well tomorrow night.

graphic-er
01-08-2011, 12:49 AM
First comment: Agreed. The rest: Disagree.
As for your first point that I disagree with, coaching helped to put us up by 15; I didn't agree with everything JOB did, but poor execution and good defense led to the collapse. Second point: I knew it wouldn't be long before someone took a shot at Jeff. Granted, it wasn't his best game, but to suggest that Roy might have defended that particular play better, and without fouling...well, maybe you might have noticed that Roy still isn't the best person at avoiding stupid fouls. Last point: Posey was put in the game because the 3-pointer is his special niche with the team. The argument that he should not have entered the game or taken the shot b/c he did not play at all until this point is not valid, as everyone would miss their first shots of the game and the game would be scoreless for 10 minutes if you had to first wait for players to warm up. A player is expected to hit their shots no matter when they enter the game, and I dare say that if you look at every player's first shots from all games, it would match their total %FG.

In the end, we lost to a superior team, but also because DC is the closest thing we had to a go-to guy.

So essentially what you are saying is the substitutions and line ups have no effect on the game and that all the players are at fault because the failed to execute in the situations the coach put them in. So Posey is at fault because he could not hit his first shot attempt in over an hour of real time since the warm ups after the half. The 3 pt specialist who has one of the worst 3pt% on the team? 32%, that some Niche! More like a terrible coaching decision. If the game is on the line you need a better shooter than Posey taking the final shot.

SMosley21
01-08-2011, 12:52 AM
Did you see how much time Tyler played tonight? I don't think he's quite ready to be playing 36MPG... especially with Josh getting a DNP-CD tonight.

Tyler was absolutely GASSED at the end of the third quarter (I'm pretty sure he played the entire time).

Late in the 3rd, after Tyler dove for the loose ball, he actually looked over to the bench and signaled that he needed to come out for a breather. He didn't quite look the same from that point on.

SMosley21
01-08-2011, 12:55 AM
For the record, the question is why was this number > 0, period?


Oh, they've got 2 PGs in with Parker and Hill, definitely a good idea to get a smaller PG out there to guard Hill, what with him officially being called a PG and not a bigger guard able to shoot at will over smaller PGs.

In 86 seconds of this 2 PG play there were 3 possessions by the Spurs and 2 by the Pacers. The Pacers lost both on steals and the Spurs scored 7 points.

7 points in 86 seconds is a scoring rate of 234 points in a full game.

From the time JOB made that Collison for Granger sub at 6:16 left the Pacers scored 6 points, NONE from the field and TWO ON TECHNICAL FTs.




Sidenote - remember when JOB used Foster as the great defensive center ace only to have the in-bounds alley oop go right at him for the loss? Well in comes Foster as the defensive ace and the Spurs run PnR right at him and Manu blows past him to draw the foul for the game winning FTs.

Josh is quicker than Jeff at this point, jumps higher and is far more capable as a defender when put into isos or PnRs at this point. Using him as the defensive sub late there makes a lot more sense than using Posey to 3pt bomb for the late win.

1,000,000% FACT!!

Psyren
01-08-2011, 12:55 AM
I do agree with the thread title.

While I didn't agree with everything Jim did, he basically gave fans what we have more or less, as a majority, asked for.

1. Tyler got to start, and get extended minutes.
2. Paul George got to play, even though he didn't play well.
3. I don't blame Jim for taking him out. Sure it was not the best time to do so, but Tyler needed that break.

Really, the only thing I would've liked to have seen was AJ dress and TJ be in a suit. Heck, even Lance got to dress.

It was just simply the lack of execution on our part and the Spurs being the better team.

graphic-er
01-08-2011, 01:02 AM
Again I really wonder what Larry Bird is thinking while he is sitting there watching his coach display no confidence in his starting center to close out the game, or when he puts in 2 undersized Pgs in crunch time who rarely play together. Or the final play of the game results in a terrible turn around 3pter by the one guy who hasn't played the entire game, who shoots less than 33%. What does this guy think is happening here? What does he know that we don't? What does this guy see that re-assures him JOB is his guy.

CooperManning
01-08-2011, 01:16 AM
Again I really wonder what Larry Bird is thinking while he is sitting there watching his coach display no confidence in his starting center to close out the game, or when he puts in 2 undersized Pgs in crunch time who rarely play together. Or the final play of the game results in a terrible turn around 3pter by the one guy who hasn't played the entire game, who shoots less than 33%. What does this guy think is happening here? What does he know that we don't? What does this guy see that re-assures him JOB is his guy.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kNv79wk33oI/S6FO_lvHwnI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/KS56hKSU8tE/s400/celtics-logo.jpg

Hicks
01-08-2011, 01:45 AM
Jim coached a better game than usual, but to me that's not saying a whole hell of a lot. I was still less than inspired by his decisions.

With that said, my strong dislike of our coaching doesn't mean I give Roy, Darren, and especially Danny a pass.

brewpopps
01-08-2011, 01:47 AM
the crazed rotations!)

I wouldn't be shocked if Tyler didn't play too well tomorrow night.Or did not play at all.

Hoop
01-08-2011, 01:49 AM
I can't blame much on JOB tonight. One thing I can, is when we were up 1pt late. We run a set play, or at least it looked like a set play, to get Dunleavy a 3pter. We didn't need a 3 at that time and it was early in the shot clock. Bad play, bad shot. Of course that was just one play, Danny had several bad ones. Of course the TJ, DC combo was bad, even in a very short stretch.

I really thought Roy got hacked on his last shot attempt. I liked the ideal of going to Roy late, just didn't work out either time.

I'd like to have seen a play run for Tyler late, but I kinda think he was spent from playing so many minutes after setting on the bench for over a month.

CableKC
01-08-2011, 01:51 AM
Anyone going to credit Jim for not playing Posey. I'll credit jim for not playing Josh
I didn't watch the game but saw the box score and saw that Posey played <1 and went 0-1 and was amazed. I'll give credit where credit is due......good job JO'B. :buddies:

EDIT - Nevermind....I just found out that Posey was put in with less then a minute left to take the 3pt shot after not playing for the entire game. I'll give JO'B a +1 for not playing Posey for the vast majority of the game....but after finding out why he was put in for less then a minute and that he took the final shot....I'm taking -100 for putting him in at the end of the game. If we needed a 3pt shot to tie the game, I'd rather have gone with a DC/BRush/Dunleavy/Granger lineup.

CableKC
01-08-2011, 01:54 AM
Could someone explain why McRoberts had a DNP-CD, Solo played ZERO minutes and Foster played only 12 minutes?

Hicks
01-08-2011, 01:58 AM
Could someone explain why McRoberts had a DNP-CD, Solo played ZERO minutes and Foster played only 12 minutes?

Tyler played great, Danny backed up Tyler, and Jeff backed up Roy.

CableKC
01-08-2011, 02:02 AM
Just for the record: Ford and collison played together for 1 minute 26 seconds.
I have no idea how to check...but what was the score before they both were on the floor at the same time and what was the score after that 1 minute and 26 seconds was over?

brewpopps
01-08-2011, 02:02 AM
Another big reson why the pacers lost the lead is that Tyler got tired. he ws so good in the third he had to stay n, but I think he was spent in the fourth quarter. And also the Spurs put McDyess on him in the fourth and that was huge

How good was Tyler tonightSo you are blaming the coach for giving a guy 36 minutes of PT when he barely saw any the last few weeks.
Credit where credit is due. Even my wife asked "So now the plan is no time at all for McRoberts???"

CableKC
01-08-2011, 02:08 AM
Also, how can you have game time to play TJ and Collison together and yet have no time for Price? Is this the return of TJ and Jack combining for 75 total minutes in some games?
Yes....it is.

Sookie
01-08-2011, 02:10 AM
I have no idea how to check...but what was the score before they both were on the floor at the same time and what was the score after that 1 minute and 26 seconds was over?

They were up 9 before, and up 2 after.

It's not the first time that's happened either. In fact, it's happened every time they are played together.

CableKC
01-08-2011, 02:18 AM
Tyler played great, Danny backed up Tyler, and Jeff backed up Roy.
Yeah...but why did McBob get a DNP-CD?

Did he do something or is there some rule that says that if Hansbrough starts that McBob can't play any minutes?


I'm finally glad that Hibbert and Hansbrough was given the chance to taste some solid Starter minutes, I just find it odd that McBob went from 15-20 mpg to a DNP-CD while having a Frontcourt rotation of Hibbert/Hansbrough with Foster ( playing only 12 minutes with 3 fouls ) and Granger backing up the both of them.

CableKC
01-08-2011, 02:21 AM
They were up 9 before, and up 2 after.

It's not the first time that's happened either. In fact, it's happened every time they are played together.
So the TJ + some other PG combo continues to work well huh? :confused:.

It worked real well when TJ played alongside Jarret and Earl...I guess it should work well with TJ playing next to DC. :suicide4:.

Geez Louise....if we MUST go with a 2 PG rotation....why can't we go with a DC+AJ combo? It's not as much that I want AJ to get minutes....it's more that I know that if we did that, we'd have at least PG out there that is a good Pass-first PG. :banghead:

beast23
01-08-2011, 02:29 AM
Sidenote - remember when JOB used Foster as the great defensive center ace only to have the in-bounds alley oop go right at him for the loss? Well in comes Foster as the defensive ace and the Spurs run PnR right at him and Manu blows past him to draw the foul for the game winning FTs.

Josh is quicker than Jeff at this point, jumps higher and is far more capable as a defender when put into isos or PnRs at this point. Using him as the defensive sub late there makes a lot more sense than using Posey to 3pt bomb for the late win.Wait a minute. I may be wrong, but I do not believe it was Jeff guarding the pick man. Jeff was playing low in the paint and was forced to pick up Ginobli when he got through the pick without our guard or our defender behind the screen stopping the drive.

Again, I could be wrong, but Ginobli did not "blow by Foster", but instead Foster was merely the unlucky S.O.B. who got stuck attempting to prevent a very good finisher from hitting a good shot at point blank range. The defensive mistakes were made at the top of the key, not by Foster.

joeyd
01-08-2011, 03:23 AM
So essentially what you are saying is the substitutions and line ups have no effect on the game and that all the players are at fault because the failed to execute in the situations the coach put them in. So Posey is at fault because he could not hit his first shot attempt in over an hour of real time since the warm ups after the half. The 3 pt specialist who has one of the worst 3pt% on the team? 32%, that some Niche! More like a terrible coaching decision. If the game is on the line you need a better shooter than Posey taking the final shot.

Nope, not necessarily saying that substitutions and lineups have no effect on a game. However, I do not fault JOB for most of what he did in this game. Why blame Posey and the decision to put him in there? True, Posey is not our best 3 point shooter percentage wise, but I understand why he was in the game. JOB should have had all of his top 3 point shooters in on that last play. Posey was open and he took the shot b/c he is a 3 point shooter, and it is his niche, whether he is good at it or not. The way Granger was shooting, I would have cringed if he would have been the one to take the last shot. Someone had to take it!

NuffSaid
01-08-2011, 08:17 AM
Blame the youth? No way.

Blame Danny primarily, go back and re-watch the fourth quarter, he was horrible, bad playafter bad play, turnovers, bad shots, missed free throws. he was beyond bad. A team is only as good as its best player. I honestly was hoping he fouled out

Next Roy our second best player, took some horible shots and missed badly.

If your two best players cannot score in the 4th quarter you are going to lose
I agree 1,000% here! Granger was horrible in the 4Q. Like you, I was also hoping he had fouled out, but when the refs changed the foul to Hans and I was pissed!!! :mad: I knew that as long as JOB had access to Granger, he'd play him, and the way he was performing out there, he didn't deserve to be on the floor.

I also thought that the one mistake JOB made with the rotations was having Collison, Ford and Granger out there. Manu and Parker started to come alive by then and we couldn't guard them.

But nobody screwed up more than Granger last night. He was just aweful.

On a positive note: It was great to see Psych-T perform exceedingly well last night. Too bad his outstanding play was wasted by the team captain no less.

NuffSaid
01-08-2011, 08:24 AM
I still blame the coach. Tyler went from not playing at all to playing the longest stretches of anyone. He needed breaks.

Why bench Josh, Posey, and Solo? It's almost seems like O'Brien was told he had to play Tyler so he decided to throw a fit and not play anyone else.

I would have liked to have seen McBob get a few minutes at least when Tyler was fading.
I could see sitting Solo and Jmac although I would have used him to spare Hans some, but Hans was on a roll and he didn't seem to get winded until about the midway point of the 4Q. So, I can see why JOB let him stay out there. But yeah, I'd have sparred Hans alittle sooner and gone w/Jmac for a while...at least let him know you still need him out there.

I can also see benching Posey and using him exactly as he was used last night - as a 3-pt specialist off the bench. Some might argue that JOB went to Posey too late, but I think if you're going to use him as a 3-pt specialist in certain situations off the bench then that's what you do. Nice gamble...it just didn't pay off. Of course, had Granger made his freakin' free throws...:mad:

D-BONE
01-08-2011, 08:54 AM
Wait a minute. I may be wrong, but I do not believe it was Jeff guarding the pick man. Jeff was playing low in the paint and was forced to pick up Ginobli when he got through the pick without our guard or our defender behind the screen stopping the drive.

Again, I could be wrong, but Ginobli did not "blow by Foster", but instead Foster was merely the unlucky S.O.B. who got stuck attempting to prevent a very good finisher from hitting a good shot at point blank range. The defensive mistakes were made at the top of the key, not by Foster.

I had a great sight line for that play and I actually thought Jeff blocked him cleanly.

D-BONE
01-08-2011, 08:55 AM
Nope, not necessarily saying that substitutions and lineups have no effect on a game. However, I do not fault JOB for most of what he did in this game. Why blame Posey and the decision to put him in there? True, Posey is not our best 3 point shooter percentage wise, but I understand why he was in the game. JOB should have had all of his top 3 point shooters in on that last play. Posey was open and he took the shot b/c he is a 3 point shooter, and it is his niche, whether he is good at it or not. The way Granger was shooting, I would have cringed if he would have been the one to take the last shot. Someone had to take it!

That Posey was coming in ice cold is a valid criticism. On the other hand, the guy's probably hit more clutch shots in his career than anyone on our team.

Unclebuck
01-08-2011, 09:05 AM
And the lead managed to shrink considerably. Just like it did the last two times they played together.

Not only is playing the two together an offensive nightmare, but it takes the whole team out of rhythm. So even after one of them is subbed out, there's no momentum offensively.

It's just plain stupid to play them both together. If you're going to play a two point guards together, Price has got to be one of them. And I'm not even that okay with that (but if the other team is playing a zone its not awful. Watson and Price weren't god awful together last season). But AJ at least brings different skills and is actually taller than 6 feet.

OK, while it is fair to make that argument, I think you need to take it a step further. Just saying that they were in and we lost the lead in two straight games is not enough. You hav to analyze why those two being in the game caused the Pacers to lose 6 points off their lead. Did having those two in the game cause two straight turnover? I don't know, maybe - I need to go back and look at the plays.

You say it got them out of rhythm, OK, how so

I thik the bigger problem is that danny and Mike were both out of the game during that 1 minute and 26 seconds

NuffSaid
01-08-2011, 09:07 AM
Could someone explain why McRoberts had a DNP-CD, Solo played ZERO minutes and Foster played only 12 minutes?
Because up to the midway point in the 4Q, the front-court quartet of Hibbert, Foster, Hans and Granger was working. That last possession by the Pacers was executed wrong. IMO, it was the wrong play altogether.

I would have put Posey in but he and Granger would have been decoys. IMO, the right play to run would have been for Collison to just drive the lanes and get to the rim. Either he draws the foul, gets the And1, or he misses. But the odds were greater going with a play at the rim WITHOUT feeding the low-post than they were at jacking up a prayer 3pter or trying to get the ball down low to Hibbert who everyone knew would be tightly guarded by Duncan.

Pop's no fool. He game planned for a post-fed to Hibbert and a perimeter shot by either Granger or Posey - and Posey's shot almost made it. But I really don't think he planned for Collison to create space for himself. That's the play I would have gone with - same as the Spurs used against us w/Parker and/or Manu down the stretch. And seeing that the Spurs did NOT want to foul on that last possession, it only made sense to force them to defend against traffic getting inside the driving lanes.

But I can honestly say I wasn't too disappointed in JOB's play calling most of the game. He didn't do too bad this time.

Unclebuck
01-08-2011, 09:09 AM
I have no idea how to check...but what was the score before they both were on the floor at the same time and what was the score after that 1 minute and 26 seconds was over?

Pacers lost 6 points of their lead during that 1 minute and 26 seconds. But a 6 point swing happens several times a quarter back and forth, so I don't think 1 minutes and 26 seconds is enough time to know if that was the reason. Ad the reason why those two were in thr game is because danny just picked up his 5th foul and Mike had just come out of the game for a rest.

Is no one going to give JOB credit for playing Rush I think the last 7 or 8 minutes to guard Manu

Unclebuck
01-08-2011, 09:21 AM
Wait a minute. I may be wrong, but I do not believe it was Jeff guarding the pick man. Jeff was playing low in the paint and was forced to pick up Ginobli when he got through the pick without our guard or our defender behind the screen stopping the drive.

Again, I could be wrong, but Ginobli did not "blow by Foster", but instead Foster was merely the unlucky S.O.B. who got stuck attempting to prevent a very good finisher from hitting a good shot at point blank range. The defensive mistakes were made at the top of the key, not by Foster.

OK, I just re-watched that play: Seth was correct in fact Duncan came out and set the pick almost at the midcourt line, Foster did a decent job staying with Manu, mnau is jsut too good in that situation. Josh would have done no better.

The two missed free throws by Danny wouldhave given the pacers a 6 point led and I think the pacers win the game.

Someone mentiond that the pacers ran an iso for danny on the last play. Incorrect, they were running a pick and roll with danny and Roy, but danny broke the playand tried to get in good position, but then threw the ball into Roy

HOOPFANATIC
01-08-2011, 09:29 AM
I don't blame anyone for the loss but Jim. Losing record, Losing record, Losing record
You can't get any type of chemistry or consistency on the floor if the coach is playing musical chairs with the lineup, up until last night, when he rode Tyler to ineffectiveness. I've never coached anything but even I would know that a guy who hasn't played much needs to have his minutes managed. What I saw was a sink or swim situation. The coach has deemed Tyler not worthy of seeing the floor most of the season, and in this game we can't play without him? Where was precious Posey. Oh that's right he was who Coach counted on to win it all for us.
Sorry folks Danny is not Lebron. Who IMO is one of the few night in and out consistent players I've ever seen play.
If you think Reggie was consistent every night then you only saw the highlights.

However, you can't tell me Danny is not trying to bring it every night and up until a month ago was playing fairly well.

D-BONE
01-08-2011, 09:45 AM
I don't blame anyone for the loss but Jim. Losing record, Losing record, Losing record
You can't get any type of chemistry or consistency on the floor if the coach is playing musical chairs with the lineup, up until last night, when he rode Tyler to ineffectiveness. I've never coached anything but even I would know that a guy who hasn't played much needs to have his minutes managed. What I saw was a sink or swim situation. The coach has deemed Tyler not worthy of seeing the floor most of the season, and in this game we can't play without him? Where was precious Posey. Oh that's right he was who Coach counted on to win it all for us.
Sorry folks Danny is not Lebron. Who IMO is one of the few night in and out consistent players I've ever seen play.
If you think Reggie was consistent every night then you only saw the highlights.

However, you can't tell me Danny is not trying to bring it every night and up until a month ago was playing fairly well.

You're right about Reggie to a degree. But factor in the go-to-guy in the clutch factor and DG pales in comparison. RM miss both FTs at that juncture in the game...let alone one?

Ballerzfan
01-08-2011, 09:50 AM
Great points by all on substitutions, fatigue factor, CD DNP, 2PG play etc etc. But this was still one of the best Pacer games of the year imo. Will JOB take any of the positives and apply them to his rotation schemes, player minutes etc? Probably not, but overall I really enjoyed this game.

A small sidenote: Anyone else besides me notice the board shift recently on Dun? He's playing within his skill sets and has been possibly the most consistent player we have.

D-BONE
01-08-2011, 09:53 AM
Great points by all on substitutions, fatigue factor, CD DNP, 2PG play etc etc. But this was still one of the best Pacer games of the year imo. Will JOB take any of the positives and apply them to his rotation schemes, player minutes etc? Probably not, but overall I really enjoyed this game.

A small sidenote: Anyone else besides me notice the board shift recently on Dun? He's playing within his skill sets and has been possibly the most consistent player we have.

I like Dun as a high quality sixth or seventh man. I don't like him as starter at SG period. If Rush can't overtake him that doesn't speak highly of him at SG in the long term either.

I'd say we have two candidates to be effective sixth men, but not to be an impact player at the two based on our current needs there. Actually, Dun is a SF.

As to your point, MDJ has played solidly and consistently.

Major Cold
01-08-2011, 09:59 AM
Usually Foster plays Duncan the best. But it was obvious that was not working. Foster was not horrible, but what he gave on defense did not overcompensate for the lack of offense the Pacers have on the court.

I am one of a few who actually like Foster still. But he was ineffective against Duncan.

I think the best option against Duncan is a rested Tyler. McRoberts would have over committed leaving the lane open (were there is usually help, so it is better than what Foster did).

Tyler does well at switching and hedging. The switching on the perimeter is what caused POP to set a PnR lower. The adjustments were in the favor of Pop.

JOB stayed Pat, he does not waver from his intial game plan that much. Which has proven to be detrimental in games. And causes us to lose big leads, like we have having him as coach.

Sookie
01-08-2011, 10:24 AM
OK, I just re-watched that play: Seth was correct in fact Duncan came out and set the pick almost at the midcourt line, Foster did a decent job staying with Manu, mnau is jsut too good in that situation. Josh would have done no better.

The two missed free throws by Danny wouldhave given the pacers a 6 point led and I think the pacers win the game.

Someone mentiond that the pacers ran an iso for danny on the last play. Incorrect, they were running a pick and roll with danny and Roy, but danny broke the playand tried to get in good position, but then threw the ball into Roy

I think someone who is faster and athletic would have done a better job at staying with Manu. Doesn't mean it would have worked, just it would have been a better option. Isn't that common sense. Jeff got beat because he wasn't quick or athletic enough to keep up with Manu. Josh is the quickest and most athletic big guy on the team...

Which is people's biggest gripes about JOB. He rarely uses his best option. That's why he's a really poor coach.

xIndyFan
01-08-2011, 10:34 AM
if josh was guarding duncan at the end, duncan would have shoved him under the rim and just laid the ball in. roy and jeff are the only guys on the team that are big and strong enough to defend duncan. the spurs are a veteran team that just takes what the defense has to give. :shrug:

Bball
01-09-2011, 07:27 AM
I don't know what McRoberts would've given at the end compared to Foster... but if I'd been coaching I would've known because I would've had McRoberts in the game at the end over Foster. I saw enough of Foster's end of game defense a few games back. Factor in Foster's decline and the fact he can't be in the Pacers' long term planning... or really even short term planning at this point... and McRoberts is the better option.

spreedom
01-09-2011, 02:20 PM
I count Danny as part of "the youth."


He's 27 (almost 28) with six seasons of experience (including playing 30+ MPG over the past 5)... at what point do you say "he is what he is" instead of considering him a young player with potential?

To me, I think Danny has either already played his best ball, or is at least to the point where he's been playing at 95% of his ability.