PDA

View Full Version : Ron Artest best SF in NBA?



Zesty
09-01-2004, 10:23 PM
Mike Kahn at CBS SportsLine thinks so. Link (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/7636615)

He is the conundrum of the NBA, an incredibly tough defender of up to four positions, a solid ball-handler and passer, with shooting range out to 3-point range. And he's also unpredictable every moment he steps onto the floor.

He is Ron Artest of the Indiana Pacers, the top small forward in the SportsLine.com Preseason Player Rankings.

"There are only about four or five guys in this league that are great two-way players, and Ron is one of them," Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said. "Not only is it hard to score on him when he's defending, but he wears you down with his strong body while you're trying to guard him. No question he's one of the top players in the league."

That's not to say he's alone, head and shoulders above the rest. Paul Pierce of the Boston Celtics, presuming you consider him a small forward and not a shooting guard, is the toughest inside/outside scorer at this position.

And then there is Sacramento Kings forward Peja Stojakovic, who coincidentally has often been mentioned in a swap for Artest while begging for a trade because of the constant barrage of negative commentary from teammate Chris Webber. Although not the defender or ball-handler, most believe Stojakovic to be the pre-eminent shooter in the NBA today -- something that cannot be underrated in a league where shooters are at a premium.

"Peja has gotten better every year," said Kings president Geoff Petrie, who chuckled at the notion of Stojakovic trade rumors. "It's not just his shooting, everything has improved. You can use any kind of productivity system you want on him, and he's in the top three."

Last year's top small forward, Jamal Mashburn, fell back into the mire of injuries that has too often dominated his career, and it's tough to know where to put him with such a balky knee. Young All-Stars like Shawn Marion and Richard Jefferson are right on the heels of the top two.

Perhaps the best all-around player of them all might be Lamar Odom, who was forced to play power forward last season with the Miami Heat but could flourish at small forward should his new team -- the Los Angeles Lakers -- move him back to his natural position.

But when you really contemplate the future, even if it's a "point forward" who not only is a primary scorer but ball-handler in offensive sets, it's tough to get past the league's two young stars -- LeBron James of the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Denver Nuggets' Carmelo Anthony.

James is much more the spectacular playmaker, capable of playing point guard and running the fast break or coming down the wing for a tomahawk slam. The 2004 Rookie of the Year, like Anthony, he played sparingly on the controversial Olympic team but still showed flashes of why people have compared him to Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan in varying degrees.

"Based on all of his abilities, it's hard to actually place a position on LeBron," Cavs president Jim Paxson said. "The Olympic experience can only be a positive for him being around all those All-Star caliber players and a coach who stresses fundamentals like Larry Brown does. But if you look at LeBron's skill set and put him at three, he can score inside, outside, handle the ball, pass and rebound. And we know he'll get better defensively."

Anthony doesn't have the ball-handling or passing skills but is a much more refined scorer. He can explode to the basket or bury 3-pointers, and despite what appeared to be growing disenchantment with his Olympic experience, Nuggets president Kiki Vandeweghe believes it will only help him grow. One of the great scoring forwards of his era for 13 seasons beginning in 1980, Vandeweghe sees how Anthony has the potential to change the perception of the position.

"Definitely," Vandeweghe said. "He is working very, very hard to get better. He's committed to being a great player in this league and helping his team be successful. He's completely wrapped up in our success -- he calls me during the draft and during free agency just to be up to speed on what we're doing. You've got to love a player that cares so much."

Not to mention the fact that he can actually play the game.

Ranking the small forwards:

1. Ron Artest, Indiana Pacers: He is incredibly strong and versatile on both ends of the floor, with the only question being if he can keep his head.

2. Paul Pierce, Boston Celtics: His strength and ability to score inside or outside are unparalleled, and it will be interesting to see how he copes with the ever-changing roster of the Celtics.

3. Peja Stojakvoic, Sacramento Kings: The best pure shooter in the game and a much stronger rebounder/defender than people think, but he has struggled in the postseason.

4. Shawn Marion, Phoenix Suns: His unorthodox shooting style and relaxed demeanor often belie his impact on the game, although his name continues to float in trade rumors.

5. Lamar Odom, Los Angeles Lakers: He is a blossoming superstar, with more size and natural tools than any of these players, but how will he adjust to his third team in three years?

6. Richard Jefferson, New Jersey Nets: There are people who love him because he defends consistently, but his shooting and ball-handling are very erratic.

7. Antawn Jamison, Washington Wizards: He is a great scorer who has extended his shooting range and is a much better offensive rebounder than people recognize.

8. LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers: The pressure for him to rise above as the next superstar in the league is immense, but he has the demeanor and skill to meet the challenge.

9. Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets: He is a natural scorer inside and outside, with an improving floor game. He, too, has great expectations.

10. Jamal Mashburn, New Orleans Hornets: This is a long shot, because nobody is sure if and when he will play again. But if he does, he is the total package.

Also receiving consideration: Tim Thomas, New York Knicks; Wally Szczerbiak, Minnesota Timberwolves; Rashard Lewis, Seattle SuperSonics; James Posey, Memphis Grizzlies; Mike Dunleavy, Golden State Warriors; Tayshaun Prince, Detroit Pistons.

MSA2CF
09-01-2004, 10:25 PM
I think Jamal Mashburn should be much higher on the list if he's healthy.

SoupIsGood
09-01-2004, 10:28 PM
Go Ron-Ron, he beat out Bron-Bron.

I feel odd now. I'll stop that.

I've always thought he was last season if you factor in defense.

Kstat
09-01-2004, 10:29 PM
I think Jamal Mashburn should be much higher on the list if he's healthy.

I think when your own teamates want you banned from attending playoff games, thats a pretty good sign you're not a good player to be around.

Kstat
09-01-2004, 10:30 PM
By the end of the season LeBron will be undisputed #1 on that list.

SoupIsGood
09-01-2004, 10:31 PM
:laugh:^^^:laugh:

thats funny

NewType
09-01-2004, 10:43 PM
Does anyone else have a problem with Richard Jefferson being #6?

Burt_Reincarnated
09-01-2004, 10:47 PM
I completely agree with the first 3 mixmatched around, Lamar should be in the top 4 too if they are going to call him a SF. Ron is the best of the bunch IMO

Lord Helmet
09-01-2004, 10:51 PM
That is why you don't trade Ronnie.

RA231
09-01-2004, 10:53 PM
That is why you don't trade Ronnie.

exactly

unstandable
09-01-2004, 10:59 PM
Um, where the hell is Kirilenko? He's my number one SF. Kahn doesn't even give him an honorable mention. And he's not considering him a PF, since he's not listed in the top ten or honorable mentions there either.

My top SFs in order are Kirilenko, Artest, Jefferson, and Peja.

Shade
09-01-2004, 11:01 PM
I agree that Ron is the best SF in the NBA. I think Odom could move up that list REALLY fast, though.

SoupIsGood
09-01-2004, 11:02 PM
But the reason why you do trade Ronnie is his behavior.... which wasn't bad last year.... so why are we trading him? :confused:

He's a keeper. Until Pierce is available.

King Mob
09-01-2004, 11:43 PM
The closest person to challenging Ron for top SF is AK47. There are better scorers than both at the position, but there aren't better two way players, and neither is a slouch on O. I love Odom, but unless he suddenly takes maniacal pride in his D, he'll be a step below Ron.

Question: What is the consensus as to whether Ron can repeat as DPOY next season?

Lord Helmet
09-01-2004, 11:46 PM
But the reason why you do trade Ronnie is his behavior.... which wasn't bad last year.... so why are we trading him? :confused:

He's a keeper. Until Pierce is available.
His behavior was decent last year.It will only improve.By looking back at Rons "Temper year" in 02-03 you can't even say Ron was bad last year.Just please don't trade him.

ROCislandWarrior
09-02-2004, 01:07 AM
Question: What is the consensus as to whether Ron can repeat as DPOY next season?

IMO it will be very hard unless the Pacers have the best record in the NBA again.

Kstat
09-02-2004, 01:15 AM
Ron doesn't ahve the "underrated" tag in his favor this year. In 2005 everyone and their brother will be falling all over themselves to vote for AK47 because Ben and Ron have already won theirs.

SoupIsGood
09-02-2004, 01:26 AM
I agree, Ron or Ben would have to be absolutly spectacular to win the DPOY again, or else I think the media will give it to AK47 for the reason posted above. Of course, if the Jazz struggle I don't see him winning it. I'd put ron's chances at about 40-50% next year at repeating.

Anthem
09-02-2004, 02:07 AM
Agree w/ AK47 having the easiest row to hoe this year.

Also agree that right now I'd take Ron Artest over any other SF in the NBA. Unless it's an All-Star game and we're able to call KG a small forward.

Arcadian
09-02-2004, 03:35 AM
If I were picking a SF I would pick either Odom or AK. Artest worries me but definately showed more last year than either one.

Odom might be the most underrated star in the league. He might have been the most solid player on the Olympic squad. I don't think he gets credit for how well he makes his teammates look.

Suaveness
09-02-2004, 12:41 PM
I still don't see how Artest worries people, but whatever. Artest without a doubt is number one. I do believe Kirilenko is a very very close 2, and he will be one by the year's end. He is VERY good.

indygeezer
09-02-2004, 12:53 PM
Best in the league at small forward AND best player NOT invited to the Olympics.

SkipperZ
09-02-2004, 12:57 PM
I do agree with KStat. By the end of the year, Lebron will be undisputed top SF in the league. I think with his playmaking abilities you could make a case for him now.

And while I do agree taht Ron is possibly the best SF in the league, AK's ommission kind of undermines the credibility of the list. How is he not at the LEAST better than Jamison or Mashburn.

Ultimate Frisbee
09-02-2004, 01:08 PM
Um, where the hell is Kirilenko? He's my number one SF. Kahn doesn't even give him an honorable mention. And he's not considering him a PF, since he's not listed in the top ten or honorable mentions there either.

My top SFs in order are Kirilenko, Artest, Jefferson, and Peja.


I was thinkin' the same thing...

Kirilenko HAS to be near the top!!!

DisplacedKnick
09-02-2004, 01:12 PM
AK was out of position at PF last year - it's the only thing I can think of.

That and that Tim Thomas even got consideration ...

kerosene
09-03-2004, 08:21 AM
Kahn is a hack. I raised an eyebrow at the Tim Thomas honorable mention too.

SoupIsGood
09-03-2004, 08:24 AM
Kevin Garnett is the best PG, SG, SF, PF, and C in the NBA, so making these lists is pointless.

Until Bender breaks out.

:pokemyselfintheeyewitharubberfoot:

ChicagoJ
09-04-2004, 12:33 AM
I thought Kahn was off his rocker last summer, when he listed Ron at #5.

Based on Ron's play, he's clearly better than #5.

Based on Ron's brain... well we've had that debate over and over and over ... :blush:

Slick Pinkham
09-04-2004, 11:11 AM
leaving out AK-47 this year, and picking Mashburn last year

make this list lose any credibility that any sane person might have otherwise given it.

Fool
09-13-2004, 01:20 PM
You might be asking, "Why would Fool post to a thread that everyone lost interest in so long ago?"

Zesty c&p'ed the article on Sept. 2nd. I have c&p'ed the list from that article as it reads today. Scan it for a second.

Ranking the small forwards:

1. Ron Artest, Indiana Pacers: He is incredibly strong and versatile on both ends of the floor, with the only question being if he can keep his head.

2. Paul Pierce, Boston Celtics: His strength and ability to score inside or outside are unparalleled, and it will be interesting to see how he copes with the ever-changing roster of the Celtics.

3. Peja Stojakvoic, Sacramento Kings: The best pure shooter in the game and a much stronger rebounder/defender than people think, but he has struggled in the postseason.

4. Shawn Marion, Phoenix Suns: His unorthodox shooting style and relaxed demeanor often belie his impact on the game, although his name continues to float in trade rumors.

5. Lamar Odom, Los Angeles Lakers: He is a blossoming superstar, with more size and natural tools than any of these players, but how will he adjust to his third team in three years?

6. Richard Jefferson, New Jersey Nets: There are people who love him because he defends consistently, but his shooting and ball-handling are very erratic.

7. Andrei Kirilenko, Utah Jazz: Clearly, the best defensive player in the group, he's improving rapidly on the offensive end as well.

8. Antawn Jamison, Washington Wizards: He is a great scorer who has extended his shooting range and is a much better offensive rebounder than people recognize.

9. LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers: The pressure for him to rise above as the next superstar in the league is immense, but he has the demeanor and skill to meet the challenge.

10. Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets: He is a natural scorer inside and outside, with an improving floor game. He, too, has great expectations.

He seems to have slid AK47 into the list after not even putting him on the list of those "also considered" but doesn't even acknowledge the oversight.

NewType
09-13-2004, 02:07 PM
I still don't think RJ deserves to be #6. I would definitely rank AK-47 over him.

Anthem
09-13-2004, 09:25 PM
I'd disagree that AK-47's the best defensive player in the group... I'd put him at #2 behind Artest. Of course, it's difficult, because they're not similar players. AK is more of a 3/4, while Ron is a 2/3.