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View Full Version : Good article about Iverson and Team USA



Indyfan
08-30-2004, 10:03 AM
Thanks for posting and I agree it was a very good article that tells it like it is. I'm glad Larry Brown is being held accountable for his way of dealing with the whole thing. He was dissapointment when the things were going badly. Will be interesting to see what happens in 2008, I think we'll bounce back and dominate again.

Roy Munson
08-30-2004, 11:09 AM
Clearly, as noted in this good article, the biggest problem with this Olympic team was Larry Brown. He did a terrible job.

I'd bet a Gajillion dollars that about 25 NBA coaches and about 2.5 million members of the general public would have brought home gold with this collection of players. All it would have taken would be to let the best players play.

Brown and his giant ego would not let this happen. He had to "teach them some lessons". He had to play mind games with the young players. He wanted to win the gold in a way that would make everyone bow at his feet and say "WOW, that Larry Brown is a genius. Just look at the masterful way he maninpulated those players."

My guess is that, regardless of the improvement of the international game, the next Olympics will see the USA blow everyone out by 20+ points (the way they are supposed to). It will be a motivated group. As long as Larry Brown isn't coaching it.

DisplacedKnick
08-30-2004, 11:32 AM
Clearly, as noted in this good article, the biggest problem with this Olympic team was Larry Brown. He did a terrible job.

I'd bet a Gajillion dollars that about 25 NBA coaches and about 2.5 million members of the general public would have brought home gold with this collection of players. All it would have taken would be to let the best players play.

Brown and his giant ego would not let this happen. He had to "teach them some lessons". He had to play mind games with the young players. He wanted to win the gold in a way that would make everyone bow at his feet and say "WOW, that Larry Brown is a genius. Just look at the masterful way he maninpulated those players."

My guess is that, regardless of the improvement of the international game, the next Olympics will see the USA blow everyone out by 20+ points (the way they are supposed to). It will be a motivated group. As long as Larry Brown isn't coaching it.


I agree completely. Brown is a great coach, but this team did not need someone to try to teach them to play basketball in a few weeks. They needed someone to look at their talents and figure out how to best utilize our strengths.

Yup - I thought all along that Brown's use of Carmelo was indicative of his problems coaching in this setting. He coached like it was an 82-game season - not an 8-game elimination format.

Carmelo was the closest thing to a pure shooter we had - he's not Ray Allen but he's the guy with the most consistant 20-ft jump shot. Brown sat him because he "didn't buy in." That's fine over an 82-game season. It doesn't work here.

We all know LB doesn't care for rookies and this team was loaded with them. He needed to figure out how to make Carmelo "get it." Sitting him to make a point's fine over 6 months, not over 2 weeks. Anthony needed to be on the floor - not sure why LeBron didn't get more PT either.

ChicagoJ
08-30-2004, 01:03 PM
Brown's an excellent teacher - one of the best the game has ever seen.

And he's a pretty good strategist.

But let's face it, he generally burns bridges, on a personal level, everywhere he goes. This lack of people skills prevents him from being a "great coach".

His ability to inspire/ motivate his players is limited to fear - fear of being called out, publicly, often times in back-handed or undermining ways, such as his trademark, "I wish we had some players that played the right way" :rolleyes:

Usually, he quits just a few hours, days, or weeks before an owner/ GM has had enough and fires him. Sounds like Stern wishes he could've fired him.

McKeyFan
08-30-2004, 01:32 PM
I'm going to have to disagree with most the comments here.

I think Iverson epitomizes the problem with the NBA and the reason why the US lost the gold--individual glory versus fundamentals, discipline and team concept.

For instance, with about 3 minutes to go and down by 8 -- the game still in reach -- Iverson goes for a steal which leaves a Venezualan wide open and he hits the three. Down by 11. Game basically over.

I really don't like the concept of Iverson recruiting for 2008. I don't want him there in 2008. There are better players for International ball than Iverson that we can choose. Instead of this behavior being commendable, maybe AI is covering his behind so that in four years he isn't embarrassed by not being asked back.

It's difficult for me to understand how anyone with a decent sense of the game would not believe that we lost due to the type of players we enlisted. I refuse to believe that we would have done better if Larry Brown had only been a cheerleader instead of taking the fundamental approach. Sorry.

une
08-30-2004, 01:47 PM
For instance, with about 3 minutes to go and down by 8 -- the game still in reach -- Iverson goes for a steal which leaves a Venezualan wide open and he hits the three. Down by 11. Game basically over.

So players should never go for steals?

clownskull
08-30-2004, 02:19 PM
i would have to say that with most anyone at the helm of this team, we would still lose. the numbers don't always tell everything but, sometimes they don't lie either. only 1 guy on the team who was in the top 50 in the nba in 3point percentage. that was a huge number that no rotation (with this team roster) can remedy.
most of these guys on the team were selected because they were the most marketable guys the league could scrounge up who were willing to play.
it happend so many times in the olympics- duncan gets the ball and before he can even start to do anything at all, he is surrounded by 2 or 3 guys and has to struggle just to get the ball back out to someone. it was really a very easy strategy. just pack it in around duncan and make the usa team shoot from outside- they couldn't.
i haven't yet looked at the final results for team usa but i know they stunk to high hell in the outside shooting dept. their free throw percentage was far from acceptable too. ahh the forgotten art of shooting a free throw. the quick one on one slashing type player has a place on the usa roster. he just doesn't need 9 or 10 places. we need some guys who can hit from outside as well as hit foul shots too.

i will give brown some credit about the unpredictability of the officiating. it was not so good, in fact it was the worst i have seen in the olympics or any previous international play with the u.s.
however it was not the reason we lost. we were topheavy with too many of the same type of player.

NumberSeven
08-30-2004, 07:06 PM
For instance, with about 3 minutes to go and down by 8 -- the game still in reach -- Iverson goes for a steal which leaves a Venezualan wide open and he hits the three. Down by 11. Game basically over.

So players should never go for steals?

I see the point, but I don't think that is the best play to criticize. Iverson almost made the steal, which would have led to an easy lay-up...US within 6.

I usually do not defend Iverson on too many occasions, but I don't have a problem with that play. Heck, in other threads we have criticized the USA team for lack of effort (especially on defense). Now it's a knock on AI for attempting a steal? :confused:

I have to go with recap on this one...

NumberSeven
08-30-2004, 07:11 PM
Also, who was supposed to guard the guy who hit the three? I didn't see very much defense on the perimeter during the OLYs. If I remember that play correctly, everyone else was near the paint and the wingman hit the jump shot. AI cannot cover everybody.

I am not sure we can criticize lack of defense in previous threads and then scoff at it when it is actively attempted. I wouldn't put the onus on AI (in this case), I would hold the wing defender responsible for not holding up his end.

SoupIsGood
08-30-2004, 08:03 PM
I agree, Brown screwed this up. he may be a great teacher of the game, but his attitude and the way he blames everyone but him just didn't fly with this young group of players.

McKeyFan
08-30-2004, 08:38 PM
For instance, with about 3 minutes to go and down by 8 -- the game still in reach -- Iverson goes for a steal which leaves a Venezualan wide open and he hits the three. Down by 11. Game basically over.


So players should never go for steals?

I see the point, but I don't think that is the best play to criticize. Iverson almost made the steal, which would have led to an easy lay-up...US within 6.

I usually do not defend Iverson on too many occasions, but I don't have a problem with that play. Heck, in other threads we have criticized the USA team for lack of effort (especially on defense). Now it's a knock on AI for attempting a steal? :confused:

I have to go with recap on this one...

Iverson's man had to be picked up by the guy in the corner. The guy in the corner gets an open three. Iverson caused the open shot.

Sorry, but going for a steal is not tough defense, it's avoiding tough defense and going for instant gratification that often does not pan out. If the US had played tough a few more seconds, we would have had the ball back.

I can't believe how few of you get this.

SpADeD
08-30-2004, 10:47 PM
For all you know he could have still hit the 3 with Iverson guarding him, we will never know. So if Iverson didn't go for the steal and stayed with his man, and his man still hit the 3, would you still be criticizing him?

McKeyFan
08-30-2004, 11:13 PM
For all you know he could have still hit the 3 with Iverson guarding him, we will never know. So if Iverson didn't go for the steal and stayed with his man, and his man still hit the 3, would you still be criticizing him?

No.

skyfire
08-30-2004, 11:34 PM
Apart from Duncan, how many players on that team came from NBA teams with good team defense? Not many, if any...

That is the area that Argentina cut them up in the semifinals. I guess since most of the teams with decent team defence went deep into the playoffs that those players are gonna be more beat up and less likely to be able/willing to play in the Olympics.

Hoop
08-31-2004, 12:57 AM
I thought Iverson showed great maturity through the entire Olympics. In every interview he seemed to say all the right things, big improvement over the past bone head things he has said. I gained a lot more respect for Iverson.

SoupIsGood
08-31-2004, 01:15 AM
Iverson's still a punk. :p