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vnzla81
11-22-2010, 11:03 AM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17970

I'm in my IPhone so I can't post the whole thing, somebody could do that.

Kegboy
11-22-2010, 11:08 AM
Pure gamemanship as far as I'm concerned.




Pacers Can't Afford to Trade Ford



By: Joel Brigham (jbrigham@hoopsworld.com) Last Updated: 11/22/10 12:43 AM ET | 1200 times read <!-- | Comments () (http://www.pacersdigest.com/#)-->


From almost the moment he was traded to the Indiana Pacers, T.J. Ford hopped right back into trade rumors. Now that Indiana has acquired a new franchise point guard in Darren Collison and Ford is in the final year of his contract, those trade rumors seem to be running more rampant than ever.


But with Collison battling nagging injuries and Ford playing so well in his absence, it's not as easy for the Pacers to consider moving him as one would think. Besides, as Coach Jim O'Brien explained, Ford's experience as a veteran point guard is more valuable than many realize.


"Darren (Collison) is a second-year player, A.J. (Price) is a second-year player, and Lance (Stephenson) is a first-year player," said O'Brien. "That would be a scary proposition where all your point guards are that young. T.J. gives us that veteran leadership, and he knows exactly what we want."


"It's just part of my role," Ford said about his stepping up despite being in the final year of his contract. "When the starting point guard goes down, it's my job to come in that second role. It's something I've been familiar with my whole career, and I just want to go out there and play hard, to do whatever it takes to get the victory."


As for the trade rumors, they're nothing new for Ford.


"I think it affects everybody to hear good or bad things said about you, but you have to understand the mentality you have to have as a professional athlete. When things are going great, they're going great, but when things are going bad you don't always have that same support. It's just part of the sport, but you've got to continue to do the things that got you to this level. You've got to keep on playing the way you know you can."


O'Brien knows how hard things have been for Ford in Indiana, and despite everything the Pacers' head coach gives his point guard a whole heck of a lot of credit.


"T.J. has a very mature and wise outlook what the situation is. He's in his last year, and things have not always worked out for him here. But he's always been a guy who has given his all and stayed ready for his opportunity. He understands how valuable he is to this year's team."


And that's what it boils down to for Ford and whether or not he ends getting moved before this year's trade deadline—either as an expiring deal, a reputable point guard, or both; he's valuable to this team right now. As long as that's the case, Indiana will have to think long and hard about moving him.


"I'm here, so I'm just worrying about where I'm at right now. If something happens, I'll worry about that when the time comes," Ford said.


"It's all about winning. It's always been about winning," he added. "It's not about scoring, it's not about stats. We're doing a good job here, and I think we've got the opportunity to improve even more. But if something were to happen, I just hope it would still be a good enough situation for the team to head to the playoffs."


That's where Ford's maturity has really shown through. He cares about his team enough right now to hope that they'd still be successful even if he were to be traded. Plenty of teams would love to have a guy like that, and by the end of the year, someone will.



Whether or not that team is the Pacers, however, is anyone's guess.

Lance George
11-22-2010, 11:08 AM
Pacers Can't Afford to Trade Ford - Basketball News & NBA Rumors - (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17970)
http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/spacer.gif


By: Joel Brigham (jbrigham@hoopsworld.com) Last Updated: 11/22/10 12:43 AM ET | 1220 times read


From almost the moment he was traded to the Indiana Pacers, T.J. Ford hopped right back into trade rumors. Now that Indiana has acquired a new franchise point guard in Darren Collison and Ford is in the final year of his contract, those trade rumors seem to be running more rampant than ever.

But with Collison battling nagging injuries and Ford playing so well in his absence, it's not as easy for the Pacers to consider moving him as one would think. Besides, as Coach Jim O'Brien explained, Ford's experience as a veteran point guard is more valuable than many realize.

"Darren (Collison) is a second-year player, A.J. (Price) is a second-year player, and Lance (Stephenson) is a first-year player," said O'Brien. "That would be a scary proposition where all your point guards are that young. T.J. gives us that veteran leadership, and he knows exactly what we want."

"It's just part of my role," Ford said about his stepping up despite being in the final year of his contract. "When the starting point guard goes down, it's my job to come in that second role. It's something I've been familiar with my whole career, and I just want to go out there and play hard, to do whatever it takes to get the victory."

As for the trade rumors, they're nothing new for Ford.

"I think it affects everybody to hear good or bad things said about you, but you have to understand the mentality you have to have as a professional athlete. When things are going great, they're going great, but when things are going bad you don't always have that same support. It's just part of the sport, but you've got to continue to do the things that got you to this level. You've got to keep on playing the way you know you can."

O'Brien knows how hard things have been for Ford in Indiana, and despite everything the Pacers' head coach gives his point guard a whole heck of a lot of credit.

"T.J. has a very mature and wise outlook what the situation is. He's in his last year, and things have not always worked out for him here. But he's always been a guy who has given his all and stayed ready for his opportunity. He understands how valuable he is to this year's team."

And that's what it boils down to for Ford and whether or not he ends getting moved before this year's trade deadline—either as an expiring deal, a reputable point guard, or both; he's valuable to this team right now. As long as that's the case, Indiana will have to think long and hard about moving him.

"I'm here, so I'm just worrying about where I'm at right now. If something happens, I'll worry about that when the time comes," Ford said.

"It's all about winning. It's always been about winning," he added. "It's not about scoring, it's not about stats. We're doing a good job here, and I think we've got the opportunity to improve even more. But if something were to happen, I just hope it would still be a good enough situation for the team to head to the playoffs."

That's where Ford's maturity has really shown through. He cares about his team enough right now to hope that they'd still be successful even if he were to be traded. Plenty of teams would love to have a guy like that, and by the end of the year, someone will.

Whether or not that team is the Pacers, however, is anyone's guess.

Aw Heck
11-22-2010, 11:18 AM
Pure gamemanship as far as I'm concerned.
Agreed. It's just the Pacers trying to up T.J.'s trade value.

And while T.J. has stepped up, I think A.J. has proved that he's more than capable of manning the backup PG spot. Besides, who says that if we trade T.J. that we won't get a veteran PG in return? And if we don't, we might as well see what Lance can bring to the table as the emergency backup PG.

Brad8888
11-22-2010, 11:24 AM
"Darren (Collison) is a second-year player, A.J. (Price) is a second-year player, and Lance (Stephenson) is a first-year player," said O'Brien. "That would be a scary proposition where all your point guards are that young. T.J. gives us that veteran leadership, and he knows exactly what we want."

O'Brien saying Stephenson is a point guard still amazes me.

cdash
11-22-2010, 11:24 AM
"Darren (Collison) is a second-year player, A.J. (Price) is a second-year player, and Lance (Stephenson) is a first-year player," said O'Brien. "That would be a scary proposition where all your point guards are that young.

It really irks me that he considers Lance a point guard. Newsflash: His defense is so atrocious because he isn't a point guard and can't guard opposing point guards. Put him at SG and his defense goes from "trainwreck" to just "bad."

Will Galen
11-22-2010, 11:28 AM
I think it's a pretty accurate article. All it says is we are not looking to trade Ford right now. Why would we want to trade Ford right now with Collison injured?

Unclebuck
11-22-2010, 11:31 AM
I feel like we have read all those quotes in prior articles, and I think this writer took old quote (from this year) and made it seem as though he is reporting something new

Trader Joe
11-22-2010, 11:43 AM
TJ Ford=untouchable? Not a Redickulous thought.

Sookie
11-22-2010, 12:17 PM
I wonder if GMs will buy this constant valuing of Ford. We did try and buy him out over the summer..so at some point, we were comfortable with the idea of Collison, Lance, and Price..and at that point, it was really just Collison and Lance because we didn't know when Price would return.

Everyone knows Ford won't be back after this season, so it only makes sense that the Pacers will try and trade him for something to benifit our team.

But this reminds me of when New Orleans said they weren't going to trade Darren Collison..

Mackey_Rose
11-22-2010, 12:29 PM
Everyone who thinks the Pacers can't afford to trade Ford is either named O'Brien or Flox.

90'sNBARocked
11-22-2010, 12:32 PM
I wonder if GMs will buy this constant valuing of Ford. We did try and buy him out over the summer..so at some point, we were comfortable with the idea of Collison, Lance, and Price..and at that point, it was really just Collison and Lance because we didn't know when Price would return.

Everyone knows Ford won't be back after this season, so it only makes sense that the Pacers will try and trade him for something to benifit our team.

But this reminds me of when New Orleans said they weren't going to trade Darren Collison..

Yea Sookie

Pacers aren't fooling anyone

vnzla81
11-22-2010, 12:35 PM
I'm pretty sure they can, they are just trying to get his value higher doing some PR work, I don't really think that GM's are stupid enough not to know how much he sucks.

Sookie
11-22-2010, 12:37 PM
I'm pretty sure they can, they are just trying to get his value higher doing some PR work, I don't really think that GM's are stupid enough not to know how much he sucks.

well, he sucks less than Miami's PGs..he just doesn't fit there..

pacer4ever
11-22-2010, 12:40 PM
well, he sucks less than Miami's PGs..he just doesn't fit there..

false chamlers should be healthy in a month they are not in a hurry to play him now. They will make the playoffs so why play him a lot right now when he isnt healthy. coach spo said he would start when he is ready.

Sookie
11-22-2010, 12:47 PM
false chamlers should be healthy in a month they are not in a hurry to play him now. They will make the playoffs so why play him a lot right now when he isnt healthy. coach spo said he would start when he is ready.

They were talking about trading him a few weeks ago..someone doesn't like Chalmers.

90'sNBARocked
11-22-2010, 12:54 PM
Fact

LeBron James is the PG for the Miami Heat

pacer4ever
11-22-2010, 12:55 PM
They were talking about trading him a few weeks ago..someone doesn't like Chalmers.

he is injured still ( ikow he is suited up)


but thier coach was quote saying that chalmlers would get a chance.

Hibbert
11-22-2010, 12:58 PM
false chamlers should be healthy in a month they are not in a hurry to play him now. They will make the playoffs so why play him a lot right now when he isnt healthy. coach spo said he would start when he is ready.

If your saying Chalmers is better than Ford, he is not. Chalmers is one of the worst PG's in the NBA. Last year he ranked 65th out of 71 guards in turnover ratio and he doesn't take his job seriously. I would take TJ over Mario any day of the week.

LoneGranger33
11-22-2010, 01:49 PM
TJ Ford=untouchable? Not a Redickulous thought.

Always happy to see a "Not a Redickulous" thought reference. And yes, we can't afford to trade him at present. Certainly not.

IndyPacer
11-22-2010, 01:54 PM
This is obviously theater. I'm hoping Ford is going to attract some pretty decent trade offers. He actually could be pretty solid in the right system. I'm interested in another backup point guard or a combo guard or in a backup PF/C.

pacer4ever
11-22-2010, 01:57 PM
If your saying Chalmers is better than Ford, he is not. Chalmers is one of the worst PG's in the NBA. Last year he ranked 65th out of 71 guards in turnover ratio and he doesn't take his job seriously. I would take TJ over Mario any day of the week.

Not for the heat Chamlers is really good from 3 thats what the heat need

Will Galen
11-22-2010, 02:09 PM
Fact

LeBron James is the PG for the Miami Heat

Yes, I read where he brings the ball up the court a great majority of the time. So why don't teams pressure him full court? Seems like a tactic that would wear him down a bit.

Trader Joe
11-22-2010, 02:14 PM
Fact

LeBron James is the PG for the Miami Heat

Well considering in the fantasy league my Lebron position switch from F to FG was denied I guess most people disagree with you...I don't though.

90'sNBARocked
11-22-2010, 02:53 PM
Yes, I read where he brings the ball up the court a great majority of the time. So why don't teams pressure him full court? Seems like a tactic that would wear him down a bit.

Because he can literally drive through the doubble team or he is tal enough to throw over his head to other players

I think the Heats lack of a quality inside presence is their greatest weakness

MyFavMartin
11-22-2010, 03:06 PM
The title of the article should be:
The Pacers Can't Afford to Trade Ford For a Longer Contract

MillerTime
11-22-2010, 03:12 PM
O'Brien saying Stephenson is a point guard still amazes me.

nothing JOB does anymore amazes me

Trophy
11-22-2010, 03:21 PM
For once we actually have too much talent at PG.

I think it's good to have a veteran backing up DC, but AJ is very valuable for the future.

DC knows what he's doing and AJ will be DC's future backup.

90'sNBARocked
11-22-2010, 03:42 PM
Well considering in the fantasy league my Lebron position switch from F to FG was denied I guess most people disagree with you...I don't though.

yeah, for fantasy purposes maybe not

But in my league you can play him as a guard

But he does really kind of run the point , ala Scotty Pipper back in the day

pathil275
11-22-2010, 04:06 PM
I agree, too. It think it is easier to move him now when he is playing decently. One good proposal and he is shipped out of here.

Hibbert
11-22-2010, 07:41 PM
Not for the heat Chamlers is really good from 3 thats what the heat need

He shot just 31.8% on 3's last season dropping way off from his decent rookie season.

Hibbert
11-23-2010, 12:18 AM
I feel like we have read all those quotes in prior articles, and I think this writer took old quote (from this year) and made it seem as though he is reporting something new

This was an exclusive interview with GM David Morway done last Thursday, so this is new material. I didn't get that feeling when reading it at all.

Jon Theodore
11-23-2010, 01:04 AM
I hope the Pacers resign TJ Ford next year. I know that is a very unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe he is a good backup PG, especially for this team currently.

Kamiyohk
11-23-2010, 01:08 AM
I hope the Pacers resign TJ Ford next year. I know that is a very unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe he is a good backup PG, especially for this team currently.

We shouldn't
And Aj price will replace the back up role on pg position

Jon Theodore
11-23-2010, 01:11 AM
I will be fine with Price as the backup and I am well aware that will probably happen. My hope is that Bird/Morway will realize Ford is a productive back-up point guard and at least make a decent offer to keep him, I almost feel like Ford likes playing for this team, because he always seems to be having a good time on the bench...wether he is playing or not.

Hicks
11-23-2010, 01:42 AM
I hope the Pacers resign TJ Ford next year. I know that is a very unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe he is a good backup PG, especially for this team currently.

I'd rather let AJ assume the role. I think at least he'll be better for us offensively. Probably not as good of a defender as TJ, but not bad, either. And he'll be a lot cheaper.

And aside from that, wouldn't you agree it's likely that TJ will want to move on to either a better team or one where he can be the starter?

Sookie
11-23-2010, 01:48 AM
Ford had a good game guys..but lets not go crazy. It was one game..and it's a contract year.

We're a better team with Collison/Price at the point, more often than not.

Hoop
11-23-2010, 01:56 AM
Pure gamesmanship as far as I'm concerned.
I sure hope so.

Indra
11-23-2010, 06:49 AM
We may be a better team with someone else at point, but I have nothing but respect for the way TJ has handled himself as a representative of the Pacers organization and the city of Indianapolis. TJ is a good backup point guard, but I think his true value is in his personality, and there's nothing wrong with that. I wish him nothing but the best, whether it's with the Pacers or another team.

Justin Tyme
11-23-2010, 12:54 PM
I hope the Pacers resign TJ Ford next year. I know that is a very unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe he is a good backup PG, especially for this team currently.


He's making 8.5 mil now, I'm not willing to see the Pacers pay major $$ to re-sign him when Price can do the same for less than a mil. Just remember his play could be the result of him being in a contract year. PASS!

pacer4ever
11-23-2010, 02:08 PM
:picard:
I hope the Pacers resign TJ Ford next year. I know that is a very unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe he is a good backup PG, especially for this team currently.

Jon Theodore
11-23-2010, 03:19 PM
Ford had a good game guys..but lets not go crazy. It was one game..and it's a contract year.

We're a better team with Collison/Price at the point, more often than not.

I am not high on Ford over one game, he has been great all season (not worth his contract, but he is a solid back-up). I think part of it may be the contract year thing, I also think he is finally comfortable with O'briens offense.

At this point I think Ford has to realize he is a back-up player in this league. He is getting the minutes he deserves right now on this team and has been productive, I don't see many teams clamoring for his services but I guess we will see in free agency.

I am fine with Price as the back-up, but if the PRICE for Ford is right I think you sign him.

Jon Theodore
11-23-2010, 03:20 PM
:picard:


I am interested in hearing your arguement as to why you do not feel Ford is a good back-up PG for this team as I stated...also his contract this year is not part of the concern, I am suggest resigning him at a lower rate. The picture is cute, but I'm more interested in a well thought out rebuttal.

Jon Theodore
11-23-2010, 03:23 PM
I'd rather let AJ assume the role. I think at least he'll be better for us offensively. Probably not as good of a defender as TJ, but not bad, either. And he'll be a lot cheaper.

And aside from that, wouldn't you agree it's likely that TJ will want to move on to either a better team or one where he can be the starter?


What teams do you think would want TJ Ford as a starter? Next year Pacers have the potential to be a top 4 team in the East if they play their cards right.

What better teams would play TJ more minutes than we are currently?

Also, what is market value for TJ Ford? I was thinking a contract like 2-4 million a year. He is certainly not worth 8 million a year, no one is questioning that.

Trophy
11-23-2010, 03:25 PM
I think JOB only uses TJ because he's a veteran. That's the only reason why anyone might use him.

He should play 15-20 minutes in favor of DC.

docpaul
11-23-2010, 03:48 PM
I sure hope the rest of the NBA begins to buy into this excitement around Ford, because it's largely nonsense of course. :)

The only people that the Pacers can't afford to trade are bedrocks of the team: people like Granger and Hibbert. We are nowhere near a great team at the 1, yet... a lot of inexperience and a proven non-starter in Ford. Collison and Price are pluripotent but not formed players at this point, so expecting their success as bedrock starters on the team at this point is way, way premature.

We can and likely will improve at the PG position, so here's to the hype and increasing trade value of pieces like Ford. I wait eagerly to see what management does with the emerging opportunities.

It's going to be a fun ride. :D

Hicks
11-23-2010, 03:55 PM
What teams do you think would want TJ Ford as a starter? Next year Pacers have the potential to be a top 4 team in the East if they play their cards right.

What better teams would play TJ more minutes than we are currently?

Also, what is market value for TJ Ford? I was thinking a contract like 2-4 million a year. He is certainly not worth 8 million a year, no one is questioning that.

I don't have any specific teams in mind, but it seems like every summer everyone finds a home eventually (or players of TJ's caliber do). And usually there's always at least one team who doesn't have a starter-quality player at the 1. Used to be us.

If it looks like we're primed to be a top team in the east next year, then you're right, TJ may just want to stick around to get in on that. I guess I haven't begun to think of us like that yet.

Market value is tricky with the new CBA coming, but by current-CBA standards, I could see him getting around $4m per.

Personally, I still don't care very much for his game (though he's playing pretty well this year), and I'd rather go with AJ because I'm assuming (of course I could be wrong) that he'll be of similar quality before too long, and I like his game better.

pacer4ever
11-23-2010, 04:00 PM
I am interested in hearing your arguement as to why you do not feel Ford is a good back-up PG for this team as I stated...also his contract this year is not part of the concern, I am suggest resigning him at a lower rate. The picture is cute, but I'm more interested in a well thought out rebuttal.

No good pg jumps in the paint and hopes to kick it out for offense. Number 1 rule in basketball is dont leave ur feet unless u know what ur gonna do with it. TJ doesnt follow that rule. He is one of the worse decsion makers ive seen. AJ is better for the job and makes less than 1 million dollars. Not that tuff of a decsion in my book. Pretty much common sense. AJ at leasts runs the offense not the TJ Isolation that tj runs which :censored: sucks

90'sNBARocked
11-23-2010, 04:04 PM
TJ is very underrated but not perfect

he wants, and deserves, to be a starter

He has been a great person both on and off the court

I would say less than 5% chance we resign him

It is time to wish him the best and make room for AJ , who has looked very solid in limited time this year

jeffg-body
11-23-2010, 11:10 PM
I beleive that Ford has done an outstanding job in the back up role this year. He has been a solid contributor and a positive influence on and off of the court. If we are going to trade him, which I think we should do, I think at the deadline to a team contending would be the perfect situation for TJ. He has been a professional no matter what has been thrown at him and always remained positive. By the time the deadline nears someone will lose a PG to injury or need that production from their bench and come calling for TJ.

Hibbert
11-26-2010, 12:02 AM
Ford had a good game guys..but lets not go crazy. It was one game..and it's a contract year.

We're a better team with Collison/Price at the point, more often than not.

How so? We have never had Collison/Price game this year. The three games Darren sat out are the only 3 games AJ played in so how can you make this assumption? TJ has had more than one good game, he's had 8, and was a big factor in all of our wins this year. He has had a very good year, nobody should deny that, not even you.

BringJackBack
11-26-2010, 12:08 AM
Heres what I think of Ford. He can create for himself, he is a solid defender when motivated, has ability to get a shot up anytime, has good midrange game, ahd for the most part he has done a good job.

However.

He still can't create for others, there is no use in trying to involve anyone when he is on the court because he milks the clock, he is turnover prone, and I cringe anytime he is in the paint. AJ Price can do all of that.

Depending on whether you want a scorer off the bench or if you want a three point shooter/facilitator is going to end up being your preference in backup point guard. I prefer AJ Price, but I am not overly upset about it because TJ Ford does a decent job scoring off the bench. As long as he doesn't play over 20 minutes there is no complaints from me.

Jon Theodore
11-26-2010, 12:09 AM
How so? We have never had Collison/Price game this year. The three games Darren sat out are the only 3 games AJ played in so how can you make this assumption? TJ has had more than one good game, he's had 8, and was a big factor in all of our wins this year. He has had a very good year, nobody should deny that, not even you.


When you do not like a certain player, you don't have to make sense when talking negatively about them. You don't like them, they aren't good for the team and anyone who thinks otherwise is dead wrong.

You didn't get that memo?

Hibbert
11-26-2010, 12:11 AM
Number 1 rule in basketball is dont leave ur feet unless u know what ur gonna do with it.

Can you show me where i can find this basketball rule book you speak of? Never heard of any such thing, they really list that as the number one rule?

Jon Theodore
11-26-2010, 12:16 AM
Can you show me where i can find this basketball rule book you speak of? Never heard of any such thing, they really list that as the number one rule?

Well technically it is the rule book for back up point guards, but yes it exists and TJ Ford breaks all the rules.

Sookie
11-26-2010, 01:01 AM
How so? We have never had Collison/Price game this year. The three games Darren sat out are the only 3 games AJ played in so how can you make this assumption? TJ has had more than one good game, he's had 8, and was a big factor in all of our wins this year. He has had a very good year, nobody should deny that, not even you.

Because Price and Collison are better point guards. It's that simple.
You get that from watching them. Price outplayed TJ in every single one of those three games. (Actually, just from those three games, Price has the highest PER and APER on the team...but sure, lets sit him..*not suggesting it would stay that way..just that, currently, anytime Price is in, he produces..)

And no, TJ has not had 8 good games. He's had 8 games better than 99% of his games last season, but that's not 8 good games. Some have been solid, some have been bad, and one was quite good.

I think he's being highly overrated because he's not being totally awful and he's had some good PR. He's been making his shots, which helps..but he's still the same TJ. And sooner or later, the almost turnovers will turn into turnovers. His defense has been better, but even that's been overrated quite a bit..because yes, he applies very good ball pressure and one on one defense, but if his player doesn't have the ball or if a screen/PnR is used, he struggles. (funny how his defense is the same as his offense)

Hibbert
11-26-2010, 08:42 AM
Because Price and Collison are better point guards. It's that simple.
You get that from watching them. Price outplayed TJ in every single one of those three games. (Actually, just from those three games, Price has the highest PER and APER on the team...but sure, lets sit him..*not suggesting it would stay that way..just that, currently, anytime Price is in, he produces..)

And no, TJ has not had 8 good games. He's had 8 games better than 99% of his games last season, but that's not 8 good games. Some have been solid, some have been bad, and one was quite good.

I think he's being highly overrated because he's not being totally awful and he's had some good PR. He's been making his shots, which helps..but he's still the same TJ. And sooner or later, the almost turnovers will turn into turnovers. His defense has been better, but even that's been overrated quite a bit..because yes, he applies very good ball pressure and one on one defense, but if his player doesn't have the ball or if a screen/PnR is used, he struggles. (funny how his defense is the same as his offense)

No, you said the Darren/AJ has been better for us this year than Darren/Ford. When in fact that's an ignorant statement to make due to the fact we have never seen a Darren/AJ this year. Unless of course you were talking about preseason which would not count. AJ Price is not a better PG let alone better player than TJ Ford. Unless you can prove this idea of yours your just blowing smoke. The only over rating going on is with you over rating AJ. You love Price, you cant stand TJ so of course you think your right. AJ Price has played a total of 45 minutes this year and your bringing up his 21.8 PER? You cant use it like that, that proves nothing. Roy has played 383 minutes this year and has a 21.1 PER. I cant wait til AJ reaches that level of minutes and you can see his PER below 15 which is just the base level of an average type player.

If AJ was so good and better than Ford, he would be playing over Ford, but fact is.......he isn't. Why is it, do you think, that out of 16 shot attempts this year, has AJ Price shot 9 3's out of those 16? What kind of point guard shoots 56% of their FG attempts from 3 point land? Not even Gilbert Arenas does. Could it be that AJ is not a PG like you say he is? AJ, this amazing floor general you say is he is a combo guard at best and will never be a starting PG in this league simply because he is not a PG and he is not a "floor general" as he does not see the court well at all. You can argue all you want to but next time state some facts rather than opinions.

Sookie
11-26-2010, 04:47 PM
No, you said the Darren/AJ has been better for us this year than Darren/Ford. When in fact that's an ignorant statement to make due to the fact we have never seen a Darren/AJ this year. Unless of course you were talking about preseason which would not count. AJ Price is not a better PG let alone better player than TJ Ford. Unless you can prove this idea of yours your just blowing smoke. The only over rating going on is with you over rating AJ. You love Price, you cant stand TJ so of course you think your right. AJ Price has played a total of 45 minutes this year and your bringing up his 21.8 PER? You cant use it like that, that proves nothing. Roy has played 383 minutes this year and has a 21.1 PER. I cant wait til AJ reaches that level of minutes and you can see his PER below 15 which is just the base level of an average type player.

If AJ was so good and better than Ford, he would be playing over Ford, but fact is.......he isn't. Why is it, do you think, that out of 16 shot attempts this year, has AJ Price shot 9 3's out of those 16? What kind of point guard shoots 56% of their FG attempts from 3 point land? Not even Gilbert Arenas does. Could it be that AJ is not a PG like you say he is? AJ, this amazing floor general you say is he is a combo guard at best and will never be a starting PG in this league simply because he is not a PG and he is not a "floor general" as he does not see the court well at all. You can argue all you want to but next time state some facts rather than opinions.

I said Price and Collison would help the team win because they are better. I don't have to see them playing in a regular season to know that. (Although, they were a fun little two headed monster in preseason) Do I think that there will be games when both act like the sophomores that they are..yea..but they're better, and personally, I trust them both with the ball more, and trust their decision making more.

I did,
after playing those three games, Price has the best PER on the team (Hibbert in second) ..and he didn't even shoot well.

Sounds like he did some things right..You say you want proof, when I can't give you any, even though for a year and a half now Price has not only been outplaying Ford, but producing well..and not being rewarded with minutes because of it.

Regardless of whether THIS stat stays the same is irrelevant, the point was he is currently producing, and produced during the preseason, and should have earned that spot. TJ got it for one of two reasons: they are showcasing, or he's a vet.

How about last season, +/- stats, Price +34, TJ -300 something. (Price led all rookies in adjusted +/-, mind you)

Or heck, you wanna look at winning percentage with Price on the floor vs. TJ last season?

What can TJ do better than Price? Turn it over? Ball pressure when he feels like it? Ford's got a better midrange shot, but Price has a nice one..and Price doesn't have to dribble the ball around for twenty seconds in order to get that shot, either..he'll take it in the flow of the offense. Because point guards should run offenses not stall them.

And the argument that he taking half of his shots from beyond the perimeter = not point guard is just silly. They aren't related. But if we're talking about shot selection, he was top 3 on the Pacesr last season in +1s, and he only played half the games..

I think with JOB the better player sometimes sits in favor of the vet. Notice Dun is still getting a majority of the minutes, even though it's pretty clear that Rush should be getting most of them.. and remember Troy starting over Hibbert last season..or Dun and Dahntay getting minutes at the PF spot over Josh (oops)

I'm not overrating Price. Price has played well enough in the few opportunities he's seen to show that he's a good player, and deserves to be playing. And I say that from actually watching him play, and the statistics back me up, particularly advanced stats. He's not "dynamic" or flashy or superathletic, but he produces and he's mature and intelligent. But personally, I've seen enough of the former and the latter to know I prefer the latter.

kester99
11-26-2010, 05:42 PM
TJ got it for one of two reasons: they are showcasing, or he's a vet.


I'm not getting into this. I think they're both serviceable PGs at this point. But I did just want to comment on the quote above. I've seen this statement in various threads, in regards to various players...and it leaves out another logical possibility, which is that the player in question is showing better in practice than the alternative player.

I know JOB said AJ was the best player on the club, based on performance in practice, at one point in the preseason. That can change though. (Paul George, for example, was doing better at one point, but somehow slipped in JOB's assessment of how well he should be doing at this point in his development.)

It may not even have much to do with AJ's assessed performance in practice. It may be more of an improvement in TJ's showing. Can anyone argue that TJ hasn't improved on-court compared to previous seasons?

And it may be none of the above, or a combination of all the factors being talked about...but there are other possibilities than the either/or vet/showcasing theory.

Sookie
11-26-2010, 07:35 PM
I'm not getting into this. I think they're both serviceable PGs at this point. But I did just want to comment on the quote above. I've seen this statement in various threads, in regards to various players...and it leaves out another logical possibility, which is that the player in question is showing better in practice than the alternative player.

I know JOB said AJ was the best player on the club, based on performance in practice, at one point in the preseason. That can change though. (Paul George, for example, was doing better at one point, but somehow slipped in JOB's assessment of how well he should be doing at this point in his development.)

It may not even have much to do with AJ's assessed performance in practice. It may be more of an improvement in TJ's showing. Can anyone argue that TJ hasn't improved on-court compared to previous seasons?

And it may be none of the above, or a combination of all the factors being talked about...but there are other possibilities than the either/or vet/showcasing theory.

According to JOB "Price never has a poor practice"

So perhaps Ford has been extrordinary in practice, However, there was never a comparison when Ford originally got the backup spot. Ford was not practicing during preseason, and even the begining of the regular season, and still was given the backup spot. And, IMO, he was probably given the backup spot when him and JOB had a talk over the summer.

Hibbert
11-26-2010, 09:23 PM
I said Price and Collison would help the team win because they are better. I don't have to see them playing in a regular season to know that. (Although, they were a fun little two headed monster in preseason) Do I think that there will be games when both act like the sophomores that they are..yea..but they're better, and personally, I trust them both with the ball more, and trust their decision making more.

I did,
after playing those three games, Price has the best PER on the team (Hibbert in second) ..and he didn't even shoot well.

Sounds like he did some things right..You say you want proof, when I can't give you any, even though for a year and a half now Price has not only been outplaying Ford, but producing well..and not being rewarded with minutes because of it.

Regardless of whether THIS stat stays the same is irrelevant, the point was he is currently producing, and produced during the preseason, and should have earned that spot. TJ got it for one of two reasons: they are showcasing, or he's a vet.

How about last season, +/- stats, Price +34, TJ -300 something. (Price led all rookies in adjusted +/-, mind you)

Or heck, you wanna look at winning percentage with Price on the floor vs. TJ last season?

What can TJ do better than Price? Turn it over? Ball pressure when he feels like it? Ford's got a better midrange shot, but Price has a nice one..and Price doesn't have to dribble the ball around for twenty seconds in order to get that shot, either..he'll take it in the flow of the offense. Because point guards should run offenses not stall them.

And the argument that he taking half of his shots from beyond the perimeter = not point guard is just silly. They aren't related. But if we're talking about shot selection, he was top 3 on the Pacesr last season in +1s, and he only played half the games..

I think with JOB the better player sometimes sits in favor of the vet. Notice Dun is still getting a majority of the minutes, even though it's pretty clear that Rush should be getting most of them.. and remember Troy starting over Hibbert last season..or Dun and Dahntay getting minutes at the PF spot over Josh (oops)

I'm not overrating Price. Price has played well enough in the few opportunities he's seen to show that he's a good player, and deserves to be playing. And I say that from actually watching him play, and the statistics back me up, particularly advanced stats. He's not "dynamic" or flashy or superathletic, but he produces and he's mature and intelligent. But personally, I've seen enough of the former and the latter to know I prefer the latter.

Collison is not apart of the discussion, he is better than both. Its Ford vs. Price. What proof do you have that supports your idea of AJ being better than TJ? Your the one bringing up the stats, the +/- too of all. Funny. People like you don't understand the +/- and it is useful but not until a period of 4-5 years. You say AJ has a PER of 21.8, so does Steve Nash, are you trying to say the are equal too? Sure AJ has a good PER and +/-, cause he hardly ever plays! I asked for proof and got none. TJ is backing up Darren, not AJ so you should support TJ as much as you would AJ if you are really a Pacer fan. I don't care for TJ but fact is he is our backup and he is better than AJ Price. If your thoughts were true AJ would be starting with his god given gifts, he's not even the backup and wont even be the backup unless there is an injury. Get used to that. At the end of the year maybe your mind will open up a little more. Since your spot on with your stats go ahead and give me that winning % of AJ vs. TJ last year, Im interested to see what you pull out your @$$ this time.

BringJackBack
11-29-2010, 06:35 AM
:mjpopcorn: