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View Full Version : Hornets/Raptors 5-player trade close to happening



ChristianDudley
11-20-2010, 10:27 AM
Just saw this in the RSS Feeds. Here's the details:

The New Orleans Hornets and Toronto Raptors are in serious discussions on a five-player trade that would send Peja Stojakovic and Jarryd Bayless to the Raptors for Jarrett Jack, David Andersen and Marcus Banks, a source told ESPN.com Saturday.
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I can't believe the Raptors would do that deal unless they think Bayless can really be something big for them, although they do get rid of Marcus Banks finally. I guess it works out for both teams as they both get rid of a bad contract. I would say that the Hornets win this deal, though.

Smoothdave1
11-20-2010, 10:36 AM
A good deal for both teams as Hornets get something (Jack) for Peja's expiring contract and the Raptors get to free up room at the point for Bayless to come in while getting some salary cap flexibility as they dump Jack's contract and Banks' expiring deal too.

This marks Bayless' 4th team (if you count the Pacers) in just a few seasons. FWIW, Josh "The throw-in" in the Jack/Rush/Josh for Bayless & Diogu trade is averaging better numbers than Bayless and Diogu is out of the league.

vnzla81
11-20-2010, 10:43 AM
This deal sucks, the Hornets couldn't get anything better for Peja's expiring? And Bayless? It seems to me like he has attitude issues, nobody wants the guy.( :) happy face for the Bayless/Rush trade again)

idioteque
11-20-2010, 10:58 AM
Yeah, this really isn't a sexy deal at all. Andersen and Banks are scrubs, this is basically trading Jarrett Jack for a young prospect in Bayless who seems to be mysteriously traded around from team to team and a huge expiring contract in Peja.

Weird deal, though. Why would New Orleans mess with a good thing?

Trophy
11-20-2010, 11:02 AM
The Hornets are gonna be buried with wing players.

imawhat
11-20-2010, 11:07 AM
Bayless getting traded for Jack again? Crazy.

cdash
11-20-2010, 11:08 AM
This is the second time that Bayless and Jack have been traded for one another. Interesting. Hornets knew they needed to upgrade their backup PG position, and did just that with one of the best backup PGs in the league. Andersen gives them a little depth in the frontcourt. Watched him some in Houston last year, he's not horrible. Can give you 10-12 decent minutes per night.

Who knows with the Raptors. They love them some international players and Peja is expiring, so no big deal there. I see this as basically shedding some salary and downgrading their already terrible point guard position.

Brad8888
11-20-2010, 11:10 AM
New Orleans is looking ahead to the time that CP3 is no longer available and getting a veteran backup and filler in the process, while the Raptors are getting a rental / salary dump with filler.

Good for Jack, hopefully it works out for him. Otherwise, Raptors win for the future considerations.

vnzla81
11-20-2010, 11:17 AM
This deal is also proving that expiring contracts are not that valuable this year, almost everybody has one big expiring, if the Hornets only got JJ for a 14mil expiring I wonder what can the Pacers get for Dunleavy and Ford.

Shade
11-20-2010, 11:27 AM
I'm kind of surprised to see Nawlins making any major trades right now after the start they've had to this season.

idioteque
11-20-2010, 11:30 AM
Jack, CP3, Ariza are all really intelligent players that make a team a lot better than stats suggest.

pacers74
11-20-2010, 11:35 AM
Peja isn't playing much now and neither is Bayless for that matter, and I still don't see this as a good deal for the Hornets. Jack is the only player they get. I bet New Orleans is the reason this trade hasn't happened yet. They want more, like a draft pick or something. Jack would be a good backup, but they are doing okay with what they have right now.

cdash
11-20-2010, 11:42 AM
Peja isn't playing much now and neither is Bayless for that matter, and I still don't see this as a good deal for the Hornets. Jack is the only player they get. I bet New Orleans is the reason this trade hasn't happened yet. They want more, like a draft pick or something. Jack would be a good backup, but they are doing okay with what they have right now.

I think it's a great deal for the Hornets. I don't think they are the reason it hasn't been made official yet, it seems it is just a little haggling over money. Jack is a huge upgrade at backup PG over Bayless (Bayless sucks), and he has proven he can start if Chris Paul's knee becomes troublesome again. They needed a little frontcourt depth, and Andersen isn't bad. As an end of the bench big, you could do worse (like Solomon Jones). And in the interest of keeping Chris Paul happy, him and Jarrett Jack are said to be great pals.

Hibbert
11-20-2010, 11:44 AM
This is a great deal for N.O. Getting Jack to backup Paul is crucial, Jack is now the top backup point guard in the league. David Anderson isn't a well known name but he adds very solid frontcourt depth, he can play both PF and C and makes the most out of his minutes. Getting these two for Peja and Bayless is a steal, Peja cant play anymore and Bayless obviously isn't that good, always viewed him as a selfish player with a bad attitude. Great trade for the Hornets, very bad one for the Raptors, they immediately just made their team worse, at least for now.

Hibbert
11-20-2010, 11:50 AM
This deal is also proving that expiring contracts are not that valuable this year, almost everybody has one big expiring, if the Hornets only got JJ for a 14mil expiring I wonder what can the Pacers get for Dunleavy and Ford.

What year are you living in? Peja is 33 and playing in his 13th season now and has absolutely nothing to offer anymore, he is done. He hasn't played a full season since 03-04 and there is very good reason why he has only appeared in 6 games this year averaging only 14 min. This is way more value for Peja than I expected, the Hornets, if this goes through, just pulled off a hell of a deal. They get two players in Jack and Anderson who are servicable and can come in and log minutes and actually make an impact, they werent getting that with Peja or Bayless. They just got something for basically nothing.

vnzla81
11-20-2010, 11:51 AM
I'm kind of surprised to see Nawlins making any major trades right now after the start they've had to this season.

They are trying to keep Paul happy, like the Cavs they are filling the team with average players hoping he can stay.

BringJackBack
11-20-2010, 11:55 AM
This is a great deal for N.O. Getting Jack to backup Paul is crucial, Jack is now the top backup point guard in the league. David Anderson isn't a well known name but he adds very solid frontcourt depth, he can play both PF and C and makes the most out of his minutes. Getting these two for Peja and Bayless is a steal, Peja cant play anymore and Bayless obviously isn't that good, always viewed him as a selfish player with a bad attitude. Great trade for the Hornets, very bad one for the Raptors, they immediately just made their team worse, at least for now.

Nate Robinson is better than Jarrett Jack in my opinion.

I don't really buy this deal for the Hornets. Their large expiring for Jarrett Jack?? I love Jarrett's game but their fairly large expiring contract PLUS Bayless for Jack and Anderson?

And Vnzla, I disagree. They are just not being patient. There is a better market than this. Iggy, Rip, ZBo, and Josh Smith all need new homes. But not yet.

Ah well, that just kills the competition at the deadline more in favor of us. :cool:

Young
11-20-2010, 11:56 AM
This is a good deal for both teams.

I'm sure it was very difficult for the Hornets to find a decent player, like Jack, and not have to take back players with awful contracts. Peja does make around $15 million.

They really don't have a quality backup to Chris Paul. While you think to hate about him getting injured again and being out for any length of time if that does happen Jack can come in and do a really good job for them.

Other good things for the Hornets are David Anderson. Nothing special but he can be productive. Plus the only salary they take back in this trade, past this season, is Jack's.

For the Raptors they are going nowhere with that current group. They free up cap space by getting rid of Jack's contract. Bayless might not be anything worth having, if he was would he have been traded by the Blazers and Hornets now, but he will truly get a chance to show what he can do. He has always been behind veteran guards.

vnzla81
11-20-2010, 11:58 AM
What year are you living in? Peja is 33 and playing in his 13th season now and has absolutely nothing to offer anymore, he is done. He hasn't played a full season since 03-04 and there is very good reason why he has only appeared in 6 games this year averaging only 14 min. This is way more value for Peja than I expected, the Hornets, if this goes through, just pulled off a hell of a deal. They get two players in Jack and Anderson who are servicable and can come in and log minutes and actually make an impact, they werent getting that with Peja or Bayless. They just got something for basically nothing.

What are you talking about? Did I say anything about Peja the player? I'm talking about the expiring contract, last year if a team had a huge expiring like that they could have got at least draft picks plus a good player, not a decent player like Jack.


By the way I'm waiting for somebody to post and ask why Larry is not getting in this trade to get one of the most overrated ex-Pacerd in the past years.

cdash
11-20-2010, 12:03 PM
Nate Robinson is better than Jarrett Jack in my opinion.

And Vnzla, I disagree. They are just not being patient. There is a better market than this. Iggy, Rip, ZBo, and Josh Smith all need new homes. But not yet.


I like Jack better than Nate, but to each his own.

I'm not sure all those guys you mentioned are going to be available. Iggy probably will be (and should be), Rip is but no one wants his ornery contract, I doubt the Grizz are going to move Randolph unless their season goes in the crapper quickly, and I am not buying Josh Smith being shopped yet.

pacers74
11-20-2010, 12:08 PM
I am with the thinking that an expiring should be worth more. New Orleans is throwing in Bayless too. Some people think Bayless sucks, but he is a serviceable PG. I hope we get more out of our expirings, because if we wait until free agency, then we are going to have a lot of cap space and no one worth signing.

BringJackBack
11-20-2010, 12:10 PM
I like Jack better than Nate, but to each his own.

I'm not sure all those guys you mentioned are going to be available. Iggy probably will be (and should be), Rip is but no one wants his ornery contract, I doubt the Grizz are going to move Randolph unless their season goes in the crapper quickly, and I am not buying Josh Smith being shopped yet.

I am probably off and maybe wrong with specifics, but I'd say that most would agree that there will be a very significantly larger market at the AS break than now.

I think Iggy will be shopped, but I don't want him. His contract is huge and he has no outside shot. He would get murdered in the Playoffs as he lacks fundamentals and such.

I agree about Rip's contract. I would like to see him play here as a personal preference, but his contract is pretty bad.

I just thought I heard some little rumor about ZBo being shopped or something.. idk lol

Yeah, not yet about Smith. But I think he will be shopped for sure. Al is ready to step over at the power forward spot, and Smith just hasn't improved enough season over season as the Hawks probably expected him to have improved.

But I do think that we can agree that there will be at least fairly valuable players down the road to trade for Mike and TJ. And if there aren't, we'll still be fine.

Young
11-20-2010, 12:10 PM
I think the 76ers turned down an offer of Peja for Iggy. I think I read that on RealGM somewhere.

PR07
11-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Not much of a blockbuster, essentially it's Bayless for Jack. Hornets probably want more of a solid, consistent force behind Paul; whereas Toronto is going nowhere and would likely rather gamble on some upside.

My initial reaction was that I thought the Hornets could get a little more with that package, but maybe Bayless isn't regarded that highly among league circles.

cdash
11-20-2010, 12:20 PM
I am probably off and maybe wrong with specifics, but I'd say that most would agree that there will be a very significantly larger market at the AS break than now.

I think Iggy will be shopped, but I don't want him. His contract is huge and he has no outside shot. He would get murdered in the Playoffs as he lacks fundamentals and such.

I agree about Rip's contract. I would like to see him play here as a personal preference, but his contract is pretty bad.

I just thought I heard some little rumor about ZBo being shopped or something.. idk lol

Yeah, not yet about Smith. But I think he will be shopped for sure. Al is ready to step over at the power forward spot, and Smith just hasn't improved enough season over season as the Hawks probably expected him to have improved.

But I do think that we can agree that there will be at least fairly valuable players down the road to trade for Mike and TJ. And if there aren't, we'll still be fine.

Agreed with most of this.

I actually like Iguodala, and I see him as a dramatic upgrade at our SG position and would love to get him. He isn't a great outside shooter, but he is a superb defender and I strongly, strongly disagree with your assertion that he has no fundamentals. He is a very good passer and a good rebounder for a two guard. I would have no problem with us dealing for him, assuming the core of Granger/Hibbert/Collison isn't involved.

As for Josh Smith...not seeing eye to eye there either. Al might be ready to step over to PF, but no one is ready to step in for him at C, and Smith has played extremely well this year. If they want to continue to make the playoffs and win 50+ games, they need Smoove. His attitude is dicey and they may not be able to pay all these guys, but I don't see how they can move him without giving a big "FU" to their fanbase.

Part Timer
11-20-2010, 12:21 PM
What are you talking about? Did I say anything about Peja the player? I'm talking about the expiring contract, last year if a team had a huge expiring like that they could have got at least draft picks plus a good player, not a decent player like Jack.


I don't think expiring contracts have any more or less value from year to year, unless we're talking about a player of significance, which is rarely the case when an expiring contract is referenced as an asset.

The value is conditional on how desperate a team is to acquire the contract/player, whether that be scrapping a disappointing season for some flexibility the following year or filling a need due to injury. These scenarios don't usually play out until closer to the deadline.

In the end this trade will have little to no impact on any other deal involving an expiring contract.

Ozwalt72
11-20-2010, 12:32 PM
This gives them a good backup PG that can step in at two guard a bit. Not bad. They aren't giving anything up that I think they actually want.

BringJackBack
11-20-2010, 12:34 PM
Agreed with most of this.

I actually like Iguodala, and I see him as a dramatic upgrade at our SG position and would love to get him. He isn't a great outside shooter, but he is a superb defender and I strongly, strongly disagree with your assertion that he has no fundamentals. He is a very good passer and a good rebounder for a two guard. I would have no problem with us dealing for him, assuming the core of Granger/Hibbert/Collison isn't involved.

As for Josh Smith...not seeing eye to eye there either. Al might be ready to step over to PF, but no one is ready to step in for him at C, and Smith has played extremely well this year. If they want to continue to make the playoffs and win 50+ games, they need Smoove. His attitude is dicey and they may not be able to pay all these guys, but I don't see how they can move him without giving a big "FU" to their fanbase.

I think that I worded myself wrong about Iggy. He doesn't have bad fundamentals, but he is at times a ball-stopper and he's fairly inconsistent. He also thinks that he is better than he really is. I know that he is still a HUGE upgrade, and if we got offered Iggy for Mike and a young player (obviously not Collison, DG, Roy, or George) I'd do it in a heartbeat. We'd instantly force many more turnovers than we do now.

Hmm... I think I'm going to have to say that I am wrong about Smith. Your argument is much stronger than mine.

pacers74
11-20-2010, 12:36 PM
I don't think expiring contracts have any more or less value from year to year, unless we're talking about a player of significance, which is rarely the case when an expiring contract is referenced as an asset.

The value is conditional on how desperate a team is to acquire the contract/player, whether that be scrapping a disappointing season for some flexibility the following year or filling a need due to injury. These scenarios don't usually play out until closer to the deadline.

In the end this trade will have little to no impact on any other deal involving an expiring contract.


Expirings were way more valuable last season. The knicks gave up draft picks, Jordan Hill, Nate Robinson, and rights to swap their first round pick. The Bulls gave up Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons to free up cap space. It's not a lot, and last years free agency class was the best class ever.

cdash
11-20-2010, 12:40 PM
I think that I worded myself wrong about Iggy. He doesn't have bad fundamentals, but he is at times a ball-stopper and he's fairly inconsistent. He also thinks that he is better than he really is. I know that he is still a HUGE upgrade, and if we got offered Iggy for Mike and a young player (obviously not Collison, DG, Roy, or George) I'd do it in a heartbeat. We'd instantly force many more turnovers than we do now.

Hmm... I think I'm going to have to say that I am wrong about Smith. Your argument is much stronger than mine.

Yeah, I agree about Iguodala, all the way.

Hibbert
11-20-2010, 12:44 PM
I am probably off and maybe wrong with specifics, but I'd say that most would agree that there will be a very significantly larger market at the AS break than now.

I think Iggy will be shopped, but I don't want him. His contract is huge and he has no outside shot. He would get murdered in the Playoffs as he lacks fundamentals and such.

I agree about Rip's contract. I would like to see him play here as a personal preference, but his contract is pretty bad.

I just thought I heard some little rumor about ZBo being shopped or something.. idk lol

Yeah, not yet about Smith. But I think he will be shopped for sure. Al is ready to step over at the power forward spot, and Smith just hasn't improved enough season over season as the Hawks probably expected him to have improved.

But I do think that we can agree that there will be at least fairly valuable players down the road to trade for Mike and TJ. And if there aren't, we'll still be fine.

With all the injuries and the uncertainty about Brandon Roy I could see Portland blowing up their team. If they do a trade for LeMarcus Aldridge would be something we should try to get done. He would be the perfect player to add into our starting 5 alongside Roy, I think they would compliment eachother very well. What it would take for us to get him, I don't know, Im sure quite a bit, but still something we could probably make happen if they ever make him available. Just dreaming........

pacers74
11-20-2010, 12:49 PM
With all the injuries and the uncertainty about Brandon Roy I could see Portland blowing up their team. If they do a trade for LeMarcus Aldridge would be something we should try to get done. He would be the perfect player to add into our starting 5 alongside Roy, I think they would compliment eachother very well. What it would take for us to get him, I don't know, Im sure quite a bit, but still something we could probably make happen if they ever make him available. Just dreaming........


Nothing like dreaming big. They would probably want Granger or Hibbert. If we could make a deal without giving up Granger, Hibbert, or Collison I think we would be a top 4 team in the east, easily.

Part Timer
11-20-2010, 12:50 PM
Expirings were way more valuable last season. The knicks gave up draft picks, Jordan Hill, Nate Robinson, and rights to swap their first round pick. The Bulls gave up Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons to free up cap space. It's not a lot, and last years free agency class was the best class ever.

I understand that last year was an exceptional year due to the free agents that were to be available, but the desperation by the Knicks (for example) to dump salary increased the value of the expiring contracts they received in return.

I'm simply saying that this trade between the Hornets and Raptors is not going to determine how valuable other expiring contracts might be as the season approaches the trade deadline.

vnzla81
11-20-2010, 01:01 PM
I understand that last year was an exceptional year due to the free agents that were to be available, but the desperation by the Knicks (for example) to dump salary increased the value of the expiring contracts they received in return.

I'm simply saying that this trade between the Hornets and Raptors is not going to determine how valuable other expiring contracts might be as the season approaches the trade deadline.

Like I said before the market right now is full of expirings, Peja 15mil, Dun 10mil, Murphy12mil, AK47 17mil, Ford 8mil,etc,etc,etc.

Also take into account that some teams are also are under the cap or have huge trade exceptions like the one Cleveland and Toronto got for Lebron and Bosh(17mil a piece).

BornReady
11-20-2010, 01:26 PM
so many former Pacers involved...

Bayless Peja Jack!

Part Timer
11-20-2010, 01:33 PM
Like I said before the market right now is full of expirings, Peja 15mil, Dun 10mil, Murphy12mil, AK47 17mil, Ford 8mil,etc,etc,etc.

Also take into account that some teams are also are under the cap or have huge trade exceptions like the one Cleveland and Toronto got for Lebron and Bosh(17mil a piece).

I'm not trying to inflate the value of expiring contracts, in fact my perspective is basically the opposite of that. I think expiring contracts tend to be overvalued by fans. It's true they sometimes produce something of value in return, but just as often (if not more) they simply expire, or worse, they turn into bad decisions in an attempt to 'get something for them'.

I don't really expect much to result from the Pacers' expiring contracts. However, if they do get some positive value out of one of them, I think it will be determined by the circumstances of the other team and not because of this particular Hornets/Raptors deal setting a bar for the value of 2010-11 expiring contracts.

Hibbert
11-20-2010, 01:43 PM
Nothing like dreaming big. They would probably want Granger or Hibbert. If we could make a deal without giving up Granger, Hibbert, or Collison I think we would be a top 4 team in the east, easily.

No doubt

vnzla81
11-20-2010, 01:44 PM
I'm not trying to inflate the value of expiring contracts, in fact my perspective is basically the opposite of that. I think expiring contracts tend to be overvalued by fans. It's true they sometimes produce something of value in return, but just as often (if not more) they simply expire, or worse, they turn into bad decisions in an attempt to 'get something for them'.

I don't really expect much to result from the Pacers' expiring contracts. However, if they do get some positive value out of one of them, I think it will be determined by the circumstances of the other team and not because of this particular Hornets/Raptors deal setting a bar for the value of 2010-11 expiring contracts.

I agree, I don't think this trade affects anything, don't get me wrong an expiring is going to have some value I just think that by the trade deadline the team with the most trading pieces is going to be the one that is able to make some trades( expiring+young player+pick) not just the ones with the expiring contracts.

Smoothdave1
11-20-2010, 01:50 PM
I still think that expirings are valuable, especially given the CBA and what may occur. I could see the Pacers trading one or several of their expiring players. With that said, you have to look at a team that is either:

A. Looking to rebuild
B. Has an owner looking to shed costs

With that said, a team like Phoenix could be willing to deal a guy like Nash or maybe Richardson (expiring) if the right deal came along. I could see other guys like Kaman, Baron Davis, Brand, Iggy possibly, Rip Hamilton, Arenas, Hinrich, Okafor, Jamison, Mo Williams, etc. all being available for expiring contracts. There are also a ton of players in the last year of their deal and I could see an expiring for expiring trade go down. Guys like Prince, Dunleavy, Ford, Dalembert, Redd, Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph, Peja again, etc.

Tom White
11-20-2010, 02:12 PM
This deal is also proving that expiring contracts are not that valuable this year, almost everybody has one big expiring, if the Hornets only got JJ for a 14mil expiring I wonder what can the Pacers get for Dunleavy and Ford.

I think you have to take a look at whose name is on that expiring contract. To me, it just says Peja is not that valuable anymore.

xBulletproof
11-20-2010, 02:15 PM
I think you have to take a look at whose name is on that expiring contract. To me, it just says Peja is not that valuable anymore.

I think this goes against the very concept of an expiring contract. The idea of acquiring an expiring contract is to let the player go at the end of the year. Why would the name matter when it's someone you're not keeping anyway?

PaceBalls
11-20-2010, 02:17 PM
By the way I'm waiting for somebody to post and ask why Larry is not getting in this trade to get one of the most overrated ex-Pacerd in the past years.

Larry needs to get involved in this so we can end up with Peja...or are you referring to Bayless? :devil:

P.S. I wish we could get Jack back :p

Sookie
11-20-2010, 02:23 PM
So uh..do the raptors need a backup...

BringJackBack
11-20-2010, 02:24 PM
Well, with how terrible Jose has been, it seems as if they need a backup AND a starter.

BornReady
11-20-2010, 02:34 PM
nudge nudge Ford :D

SoupIsGood
11-20-2010, 02:45 PM
Iguodala would look pretty nice playing next to Collison and Granger. . .

Trader Joe
11-20-2010, 02:52 PM
I'm kind of surprised to see Nawlins making any major trades right now after the start they've had to this season.

Bayless has been irrelevant to that start, and Peja is old and washed up.

Sandman21
11-20-2010, 03:09 PM
Remember when we drafted Bayless and everyone had a cow when he got traded?

Man we all look stupid now lol.

DocHolliday
11-20-2010, 04:36 PM
Bayless is gonna be so good, you just wait.


And wait.


:rolleyes:

Naptown_Seth
11-20-2010, 05:07 PM
If you go back to the run up to that draft, Bayless was a top 5 guy and then the tryouts began and he started to slip. Rumors were attitude issues. I saw a few interviews (plus the Gunnin' film) which did portray him as a snobby, privileged type that came off as though he was owed success. We are so used to ghetto kids with thier hard knocks background that it's easy to forget the other ways a talented prospect can be problematic.

Now that was in no way certain or clear, just the smoke without signs of fire. But he did fall out of the top 10, then couldn't buy any PT with Portland even when injuries seemed to be setting him up for success.

When Portland gave up on him in favor of not just Patty Mills from the previous draft but new first round acquisition Armon Johnson (one of my pet picks actually) it was hard not to see the writing on the wall with him. Why in the world would a team keep going out of their way to not use a guy to the point that they were bringing in other young PGs instead, PGs drafted well below the Bayless level.

He has NBA scoring ability, so that's not the issue. Something is up with him. As I alluded to my suspicion is that he might be a snotty unpleasant brat, and that might also be leading to a lack of effort on the defensive end.

I wonder if Bird had that read on him too as of draft night?

By my standards it proves that there are FAR worse things than being a hard working defensive player that keeps taking risks with smoking pot. I'd rather have Rush even with the 5 game suspension because he clearly does show a passion when he hits the court. Maybe not a ball hogging scorers passion (ahem, Bayless) but a defend, rebound, pass, block passion that helps 10x more.

If only they'd kept Jack that trade would be a laughingstock. Actually it probably already is.


To think, Shade almost jumped to his death over this bad penny. :)

Naptown_Seth
11-20-2010, 05:11 PM
Speaking of giving up on a guy just in the nick of time - Peja.

Thanks for phoning in that playoff effort, it sure paid off for your career in terms of success and accomplishments after that point.


Al screwed us on his return, but to the credit of TPTB they got him right back outta here at least. Larry has made some poor choices but he's been decent about cutting bait when needed.

vnzla81
11-20-2010, 11:52 PM
This looks like it was 2 different deals in one

The 1st deal is Peja for Toronto's 15mil trade exception, according to NBA.tv they feel that he can help them this year :laugh:

The second deal is Jack and Bank for Bayless :laugh:

way to go Toronto :laugh:

xBulletproof
11-20-2010, 11:59 PM
This looks like it was 2 different deals in one

The 1st deal is Peja for Toronto's 15mil trade exception, according to NBA.tv they feel that he can help them this year :laugh:

The second deal is Jack and Bank for Bayless :laugh:

way to go Toronto :laugh:

That's because Bayless can't be traded in a deal with anyone else. Any deal involving him he had to be traded alone. So it had to be broken up into two parts.

King Phoenix
11-21-2010, 01:37 AM
Is it me or is the hornets front office in a trade like every week?

I mean they're busier than the new England patriots for crying out loud! They seriously need a break....if I didn't know any better I would think they were playing 2k.

PacersPride
11-21-2010, 02:08 AM
Larry has made some poor choices but he's been decent about cutting bait when needed.

poor choices?? would like for the poster to elaborate on this. was JO to toronto a poor choice?

wintermute
11-21-2010, 03:43 AM
This looks like it was 2 different deals in one

The 1st deal is Peja for Toronto's 15mil trade exception, according to NBA.tv they feel that he can help them this year :laugh:

The second deal is Jack and Bank for Bayless :laugh:

way to go Toronto :laugh:

It's actually Jack and Banks for Peja, then Bayless separately for a part of Toronto's exception. The reason for doing this, as xBulletproof points out, is simply because Bayless was recently traded. Strangely enough, Bayless' trade restriction expires in a month's time. If Toronto waited until then, they wouldn't have to use up part of their trade exception. (edit: This last statement is wrong. Salaries don't match sufficiently. Toronto would have to use their trade exception in any case.)

Love this deal for the Hornets, btw. But then, I've always been a Jack fan. Funny isn't it that one reason Toronto signed Jack was because he was pals with Bosh, and now New Orleans wants him because he's friends with Paul. Is he the chummiest guy in the league or what.

Dr. Awesome
11-21-2010, 04:13 AM
Is it me or is the hornets front office in a trade like every week?

I mean they're busier than the new England patriots for crying out loud! They seriously need a break....if I didn't know any better I would think they were playing 2k.

:confused:

spreedom
11-22-2010, 11:33 AM
I think this trade is a huge win for New Orleans. Jack was being misused (i.e. starting) in Toronto but will be a tremendous fit as Paul's backup and sometimes-backcourt-mate. He is good-not-great at most PG attributes and will give the second unit some needed scoring punch and stability. Banks probably won't play much (nor should he) and Andersen is a 10MPG player at best that I doubt will have a significant positive or negative impact on the game.

Toronto making this deal is confusing to me unless they really believe that Bayless can be the starting PG on a winning team. I don't think he ever will be, but I won't completely bash this deal until we have an idea what Bayless can contribute. The Raptors.com blogger seems to think that Peja is going to get big minutes as the team's primary deep threat, which wouldn't make much sense to me unless they know something about his health and game that I don't.

pwee31
11-22-2010, 05:56 PM
Has this officially gone through? If not what's the hold up?

cdash
11-22-2010, 06:01 PM
Has this officially gone through? If not what's the hold up?

Yes, it's gone through.

pacer4ever
11-22-2010, 06:01 PM
Has this officially gone through? If not what's the hold up?

yess it has raptors gm has spoke about it

cordobes
11-22-2010, 06:08 PM
Remember when we drafted Bayless and everyone had a cow when he got traded?

Man we all look stupid now lol.

Kevin Pritchard reputation has been dealt several big hits in the past few weeks.

He gives Roy that big extension and his knees start giving him serious problems, partially vindicating the teams that passed him on the draft. Oden will be averaging 20 games per season after his 4th year in the league. Bayless can't find a home in the league. Their great young role-players were either dealt or aren't really that great.

cordobes
11-22-2010, 06:13 PM
If you go back to the run up to that draft, Bayless was a top 5 guy and then the tryouts began and he started to slip. Rumors were attitude issues. I saw a few interviews (plus the Gunnin' film) which did portray him as a snobby, privileged type that came off as though he was owed success. We are so used to ghetto kids with thier hard knocks background that it's easy to forget the other ways a talented prospect can be problematic.

Now that was in no way certain or clear, just the smoke without signs of fire. But he did fall out of the top 10, then couldn't buy any PT with Portland even when injuries seemed to be setting him up for success.

When Portland gave up on him in favor of not just Patty Mills from the previous draft but new first round acquisition Armon Johnson (one of my pet picks actually) it was hard not to see the writing on the wall with him. Why in the world would a team keep going out of their way to not use a guy to the point that they were bringing in other young PGs instead, PGs drafted well below the Bayless level.

He has NBA scoring ability, so that's not the issue. Something is up with him. As I alluded to my suspicion is that he might be a snotty unpleasant brat, and that might also be leading to a lack of effort on the defensive end.

I wonder if Bird had that read on him too as of draft night?

Hmm... I've never read anything about Bayless having attitude problems since he's in the NBA. He was somewhat pouty when he wasn't getting playing time but McMillan has always praised his professionalism and work ethic. He has the reputation of being a gym rat.

His problems defensively have nothing to do with lack of effort, he gives plenty of it, but lack of arm range. He has really small arms.

The biggest issue is that he's more of a shooting guard who can't shoot in a PG body. An one trick pony that NBA teams can easily shut down. Let's see if he now blossoms in Toronto, he should have plenty of playing time available.