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Hibbert
11-17-2010, 10:33 PM
http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=6823

Greg Oden out for season, will have microfracture surgery
Posted by Inside Hoops
Nov
17
Portland Trail Blazers center Greg Oden will undergo microfracture surgery on his left knee Friday and will miss the remainder of the 2010-11 season, the Trail Blazers announced this evening.

Dr. Richard Steadman will perform the surgery with assistance from Trail Blazers orthopedic surgeon Dr. Don Roberts at the Steadman Hawkins Clinic in Vail, Colo.

Oden, 22, has been sidelined since fracturing his left patella in a Dec. 5, 2009, game vs. Houston. A recent MRI showed damaged cartilage to the surface of his femur, and his current injury is unrelated to the fractured left patella.

Oden previously underwent microfracture surgery on his right knee Sept. 13, 2007.

He holds career NBA averages of 9.4 points, 7.3 rebounds, 0.6 assists and 1.43 blocked shots in 82 games over parts of two seasons from 2008-09.

QuickRelease
11-17-2010, 10:35 PM
Again??? Poor Greg!

Trophy
11-17-2010, 10:36 PM
:-o

That's really unfortunate.

Midcoasted
11-17-2010, 10:36 PM
Bust

vnzla81
11-17-2010, 10:37 PM
They just announced this on ESPN

spazzxb
11-17-2010, 10:38 PM
3 years now? At least he's rich.

QuickRelease
11-17-2010, 10:41 PM
No way I see Portland resigning him. I wonder if he'd be a good, low risk signing. I could also see him wanting to go to Memphis to play with Mike Conley again.

BlueNGold
11-17-2010, 10:42 PM
Very unfortunate. Poor kid.

judicata
11-17-2010, 10:43 PM
No way I see Portland resigning him. I wonder if he'd be a good, low risk signing. I could also see him wanting to go to Memphis to play with Mike Conley again.

I think a lot of teams would be willing to risk a small contract on him.

Sookie
11-17-2010, 10:43 PM
aww..poor guy. Just really unfortunate..it's not fair.

Trader Joe
11-17-2010, 10:51 PM
It's probably time to think about going back to college and finishing my college degree if I'm Greg. I don't consider him a bust, as much as he has been incredibly unlucky and not blessed with a body physically capable of being a professional athlete.

Yes, I understand he has great size, but there is more to it than that.

Why keep putting your body through this? Go back to Ohio State, get your degree and move on with life. Don't try to prove anything to anyone but yourself, and get out while you can still walk.

Midcoasted
11-17-2010, 10:56 PM
Everyone considered Bender a bust just because of his knees. Sucks for the guy but I'm not going to throw a pity party for anyone. He made millions of dollars to go after his dream. He is still very lucky.

wintermute
11-17-2010, 10:57 PM
Another operation for Oden, the state of Brandon Roy's knees... the bad news just doesn't seem to stop for the Blazers.

Hicks
11-17-2010, 11:02 PM
Again?

Hicks
11-17-2010, 11:04 PM
With that said, we might have a chance at getting him cheaply this summer in free agency. I'd be fine with that. Who cares if he doesn't pan out as a backup. Imagine if he DOES work out.

xBulletproof
11-17-2010, 11:05 PM
Yeah! Lets offer them Hibbert for him! Heck yeah!

pacer4ever
11-17-2010, 11:05 PM
micro frature knee surgery

PacersPride
11-17-2010, 11:09 PM
its a real shame to see oden go down once again. i really hope the best for him, stand up guy from what ive seen reported on him in local news stories back in the day.

much like johnathon bender, we may nvr know how good he might have been.

Bball
11-17-2010, 11:10 PM
Wow....

Bad news for Oden and for Portland. About the only brightside for Oden is he didn't breakdown in college.

ColeTheMole
11-17-2010, 11:13 PM
The only reason Oden has been in the news since he has been in the NBA is injury related or genitalia related. What a shame...

pacer4ever
11-17-2010, 11:17 PM
its a real shame to see oden go down once again. i really hope the best for him, stand up guy from what ive seen reported on him in local news stories back in the day.

much like johnathon bender, we may nvr know how good he might have been.

u didnt hear about the story about his junk???

cdash
11-17-2010, 11:20 PM
With that said, we might have a chance at getting him cheaply this summer in free agency. I'd be fine with that. Who cares if he doesn't pan out as a backup. Imagine if he DOES work out.

Man, any amount of guaranteed money is probably too much for him. He just cannot stay on the court. I'll pass.

PaceBalls
11-17-2010, 11:26 PM
With that said, we might have a chance at getting him cheaply this summer in free agency. I'd be fine with that. Who cares if he doesn't pan out as a backup. Imagine if he DOES work out.

He would be perfect and is exactly what this team needs. What better back up C could we possibly get?

pacer4ever
11-17-2010, 11:28 PM
He would be perfect and is exactly what this team needs. What better back up C could we possibly get?

me at least i could give u 6 fouls. Oden gives u nothing sitting in a suit

cdash
11-17-2010, 11:28 PM
He would be perfect and is exactly what this team needs. What better back up C could we possibly get?

One that can play?

vnzla81
11-17-2010, 11:29 PM
Man, any amount of guaranteed money is probably too much for him. He just cannot stay on the court. I'll pass.

The insurance would pay if he miss too much time, not a bad deal if you get him cheap.


edit: I rather get Tyson Chandler but who knows how much he wants.

xBulletproof
11-17-2010, 11:29 PM
He would be perfect and is exactly what this team needs. What better back up C could we possibly get?

I dunno ... one who plays more than 82 games every 4 years?

Just a hunch.


The insurance would pay if he miss too much time, not a bad deal if you get him cheap.

It still counts against the cap. Yay.

Hicks
11-17-2010, 11:32 PM
Some players start out like this then get healthier. Remember when we all "knew" Grant Hill was "done" in Orlando?

I say take a chance if the price is right. Low risk, high reward.

xBulletproof
11-17-2010, 11:37 PM
Grant Hill was at least healthy for a while before that happened. Oden wasn't healthy in college (wrist) nor any of his 4 years in the NBA. That's 5 years.

Yes, if the price is right. The only right price to me is if he's willing to come home for league minimum.

beast23
11-17-2010, 11:38 PM
Everyone knows by now that Portland did not extend Oden. However they still retain the rights to match any offer made to him when he turns FA next summer.

The problem I see in acquiring Oden is to pay him enough that Portland will not bother matching the offer, but not paying him "too much"... however much that happens to be.

I just don't think it would be wise to pay much more than $2M/year for maybe a 2 year contract. If that is enough to get him and he pans out, you've hit the jackpot. If he doesn't pan out, you've wasted $4M and a roster spot. Is that something the Pacers can afford to do?

croz24
11-17-2010, 11:40 PM
gives us a better shot at signing him, and for the cheap.

pacer4ever
11-17-2010, 11:40 PM
Grant Hill was at least healthy for a while before that happened. Oden wasn't healthy in college (wrist) nor any of his 4 years in the NBA. That's 5 years.

Yes, if the price is right. The only right price to me is if he's willing to come home for league minimum.

he wasnt healthy in HS ethier missed quite a few games

kester99
11-17-2010, 11:45 PM
I wish him well, but we might as well fill one of our 15 roster spots with a cardboard cutout of Wilt Chamberlain, as much use as we'd get out of him.

Let's find some people who can play.

vnzla81
11-17-2010, 11:48 PM
Some players start out like this then get healthier. Remember when we all "knew" Grant Hill was "done" in Orlando?

I say take a chance if the price is right. Low risk, high reward.

Grant Hill, Mcdye, Nene, kenyon Martin, Camby.

Psyren
11-17-2010, 11:51 PM
Very unfortunate.

I just don't see a career for him. This is 3 years in a row. His body just can't handle it.

Best wishes to him.

xBulletproof
11-18-2010, 12:15 AM
Grant Hill, Mcdye, Nene, kenyon Martin, Camby.

I could make a list too, but nobody really has time to make a list that long.

If you'd like to reach for miracles ..... good luck I suppose. Especially when McDyess has never been the same player he was. He was an explosive young player who looked like he could be a multiple time All-Star, All-NBA repeat offender. He averaged 20 and 12 the year before his injury I believe, and hasn't averaged over 10 ppg since.

Grant Hill is the same story, still has never been the player he once was. Kenyon was never much of anything but a product of playing with good PG's to begin with.

Either way, all of these guys showed an ability to be healthy before their injuries. Something Oden has never been capable of displaying. And some of these guys were never the same, and we don't even know what Oden would have been to begin with. So you're taking 2 chances, 1 that he ever would have been worth anything, and that half of it would still be worth a spot. Secondly that he'll be healthy. 3rd even that he won't foul out in 10 minutes. He plays less minutes than Hibbert, and averages more fouls that Hibbert last year. And we all know how we perceived Hibberts foul problems. What does that say for Oden?

Of all the places, you'd figure this fan base would have learned their lesson about major injuries and nagging problems.

Guess not.

PaceBalls
11-18-2010, 12:23 AM
Some players start out like this then get healthier. Remember when we all "knew" Grant Hill was "done" in Orlando?

I say take a chance if the price is right. Low risk, high reward.

Antonio Mcdyess comes to mind as well. He would be nice to have off the Pacer's bench this year, 36 years old and all.

I don't want the Pacers to sign Greg if they are going to pay him 10mpy...

I guess the question is, what would he be worth and what would it take to outbid the rest of the NBA? We have a ton of cap space in the offseason. Is 3yr/12m too much? Would someone else offer a more lucrative deal? I think he will get that at least from someone.

vnzla81
11-18-2010, 12:29 AM
Trail blazers press conference is on NBA tv right now

They are explaining what is going on with Greg's knee

Lance George
11-18-2010, 12:29 AM
Count me in as one who would be willing to give Oden a chance if the price is right. Just what the "right" price would be, I'm not sure.

vnzla81
11-18-2010, 12:36 AM
By the way he is only 22 years old and would be in rehab for about a year in a half(with the lockout)


Edit: Amare is one of those players that got microfracture surgery before becoming the beast he is.

ksuttonjr76
11-18-2010, 12:42 AM
Antonio Mcdyess comes to mind as well. He would be nice to have off the Pacer's bench this year, 36 years old and all.

I don't want the Pacers to sign Greg if they are going to pay him 10mpy...

I guess the question is, what would he be worth and what would it take to outbid the rest of the NBA? We have a ton of cap space in the offseason. Is 3yr/12m too much? Would someone else offer a more lucrative deal? I think he will get that at least from someone.

Definitely too much. I would want him for the $2MIL or less, and with a doctor's note.

Heisenberg
11-18-2010, 12:44 AM
Just really sad stuff, and I could give a crap about the Blazers. I've never seen a bad thing written or said about Oden, not that if there were that would make this any more...I don't know, less sad. My loyalties are first and foremost with the Pacers and then not far behind are players that this state produces, I think a good number of people here are like that and that's why we'd like to see McRoberts succeed. If there's any condolence I suppose it's that he's already made a boatload of life changing cash that could become even more with sound management. I mean this kid is only 22 and it's the point where you just hope he can life out his life walking upright. Again, just sad.

xBulletproof
11-18-2010, 12:46 AM
Edit: Amare is one of those players that got microfracture surgery before becoming the beast he is.

Another guy who had been a "beast" and shown he could be healthy BEFORE the major injury(s). This guys entire career has been a major injury.

I give up. People are blind.

PaceBalls
11-18-2010, 12:51 AM
So... some of you are talking like he will be in a wheelchair the rest of his life. He is 22 years old. It's 2010 and it is pretty amazing what surgeons can do now days.

vnzla81
11-18-2010, 12:52 AM
Another guy who had been a "beast" and shown he could be healthy BEFORE the major injury(s). This guys entire career has been a major injury.

I give up. People are blind.

I almost forgot Blake Griffing

Hicks
11-18-2010, 01:04 AM
Another guy who had been a "beast" and shown he could be healthy BEFORE the major injury(s). This guys entire career has been a major injury.

I give up. People are blind.

I don't appreciate being described as blind simply because I don't automatically assume that there is 0% chance Greg Oden has a future in this league. I just want him to back up Roy Hibbert. I don't want or expect him to star for us.

My expectations are as follows: It's more likely than not he's done. I'm not even trying to argue otherwise. I just don't believe it's wise to completely dismiss him. If he can be had for cheap, and he may not be available at a low (enough) price, it's worth the risk. I'm not saying it's even that likely it works out. But at such a low price, it's worth rolling the dice. I don't care (other than feeling bad for him) if it doesn't work, and I don't really expect it to. But you never know for sure until it plays out.

righteouscool
11-18-2010, 01:10 AM
Everyone considered Bender a bust just because of his knees. Sucks for the guy but I'm not going to throw a pity party for anyone. He made millions of dollars to go after his dream. He is still very lucky.

That's true, but there's more to money. Anytime someone is physically unable to do what they love I feel for them. Especially Greg, he seems like genuinely nice person.


Another operation for Oden, the state of Brandon Roy's knees... the bad news just doesn't seem to stop for the Blazers.

No kidding, and I thought the colts were injury cursed lately. .

xBulletproof
11-18-2010, 01:42 AM
I don't appreciate being described as blind

Well, I don't know another description for it when a guy has finished 3 of his 4 NBA seasons with major knee surgery. 2 of them before he even played 1 minute.

You guys keep throwing names out there, but how many guys have had microfracture surgery on BOTH knee's, plus that kneecap surgery he had. Plus surgery on his right wrist. On top of the major injuries, he's missed 2 weeks with foot injury in his FIRST NBA game after a whopping 13 minutes. Then later that year, he had a chipped kneecap that kept him out 3 weeks too.

He's more Samuel Jackson from the movie Unbreakable, than he is worthy of an NBA roster spot. In fact, if they make a sequel/ prequel I'd nominate him for the part. At least he won't mess his knee up rolling around in a wheelchair for the movie.

Hicks
11-18-2010, 01:45 AM
I guess you won't acknowledge the rest of my post where I explain my stance, then?

xBulletproof
11-18-2010, 01:54 AM
What was there to reply to? It was exceedingly vague. Low "enough", and all. You never say anything definitive, how can one respond to that? Low enough to you might be 8 million a year. I dunno.

Even at league minimum I'd be questioning it honestly. Herb might as well throw that million+ dollars at the Powerball jackpot when it hits 300 million sometime. He's just as likely to get something out of that investment as he is signing Oden. Ok, maybe that's a bit much, but you'd seriously throw cap money, and a roster spot at this guy?

Will he even be ready for the start of the season if there is one?

Everyone on the Colts board is ready to cut bait and throw Bob Sanders to the wolves and release him. Yet, one wrong click away they're ready to give the NBA version of Bob Sanders a roster spot and cash. Confusing.

PR07
11-18-2010, 02:04 AM
:(

I feel terrible for the kid. It can't be easy.

If I were the Pacers, I'd definitely take a flyer on him if it was reasonably cheap. What do you have to lose?

Hicks
11-18-2010, 02:04 AM
The money wasn't my main point. My main point is it's not an absolute certainty that he's done. Likely perhaps, but not guaranteed. That's all.

So if the Pacers sign him to something most would consider cheap (I don't know what that is, and right now I don't care), I say it's worth the risk.

cinotimz
11-18-2010, 02:12 AM
Portland has had some rather tough breaks when it comes to the draft.

They drafted Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan.

They drafted Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant.

Looks like Oden is Sam Bowie all over again.

ballism
11-18-2010, 06:51 AM
I almost forgot Blake Griffing

Blake had a small fracture on his kneecap.
Oden has his kneecaps breaking in half every year. It's very different with them.

If I'd look for real success stories - Zydrunas Ilgauskas. He was chronic feet issues, instead of knees, but it also seemed like his case is hopeless for 3 or 4 years in a row. Then he came back and became two time All Star.
Of course, you can't reconstruct knees with metal screws yet.

ballism
11-18-2010, 06:59 AM
Portland has had some rather tough breaks when it comes to the draft.

They drafted Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan.

They drafted Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant.

Looks like Oden is Sam Bowie all over again.

Also Sabonis. He was forced to play through injuries in USSR in his low 20s, and by the time he came to Portland, he wasn't nearly the same and had chronic knee and ankle problems.

And don't forget Bill Walton. I mean, the man was supposed to be the most dominant C of the 80s. Instead, he's injured for the first few seasons for the Blazers. Then he's healthy for 1.5 seasons - during which he gets MVP, a title, a Finals MVP and 2 x All Stars. And then he goes down again for 6 years.
That right there sums up the Blazers.

Unclebuck
11-18-2010, 08:14 AM
I feel bad for him as a person.

But I think with Yao and Oden's injuries teams will think long and hard about drafting really big centers. They are injury prone

Slick Pinkham
11-18-2010, 08:37 AM
I expect his career is over. But overall I'd agree with Hicks...

Just how risky would it be to take a chance, with a minimum salary offer, that he becomes a decent backup in a couple of years? The downside is cutting a 15th man of the ability level roughly equal to Solomon Jones. That's all. To me, if you get him for next to nothing you can roll the dice on the 20% chance that he can come back. You don't rush his recovery and you don't expect him to ever be "the man". If it doesn't happen that he can ever play well at all? Well, you tried a low risk, mediim reward gamble and lost very litttle.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 08:42 AM
Some players start out like this then get healthier. Remember when we all "knew" Grant Hill was "done" in Orlando?

I say take a chance if the price is right. Low risk, high reward.

Grant Hill was at least healthy at one point in his career before he hit that skid. Oden hasn't been healthy since his junior year of high school.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 08:43 AM
Grant Hill, Mcdye, Nene, kenyon Martin, Camby.

These situations aren't even comparable to Oden.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 08:44 AM
By the way he is only 22 years old and would be in rehab for about a year in a half(with the lockout)


Edit: Amare is one of those players that got microfracture surgery before becoming the beast he is.

Amare had one major surgery on his knee. This is Oden's third. Plus he had the wrist problem his senior year of high school through his year of college. His joints cannot handle the strain he puts on them period.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 08:45 AM
So... some of you are talking like he will be in a wheelchair the rest of his life. He is 22 years old. It's 2010 and it is pretty amazing what surgeons can do now days.

Some of you are acting like this is his first major surgery...

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 08:49 AM
Blake had a small fracture on his kneecap.
Oden has his kneecaps breaking in half every year. It's very different with them.

If I'd look for real success stories - Zydrunas Ilgauskas. He was chronic feet issues, instead of knees, but it also seemed like his case is hopeless for 3 or 4 years in a row. Then he came back and became two time All Star.
Of course, you can't reconstruct knees with metal screws yet.

EXACTLY. Oden himself even explained the catastrophic differences between his injury and Blake's during a nationally televised Blazers game earlier this year. Oden's knee cap literally fractured into two pieces (maybe more? I can't remember). Griffin's knee cap was just cracked, but still connected together, still a painful dangerous injury, but no where near the catastrophic event Oden's was.

wintermute
11-18-2010, 09:36 AM
Everyone knows by now that Portland did not extend Oden. However they still retain the rights to match any offer made to him when he turns FA next summer.


Not quite correct. Portland will retain restricted FA rights to Oden if they extend him a qualifying offer. Since Oden was the #1 pick of his batch, his qualifying number is quite large ($8m+) and it's no longer certain that the Blazers will offer that. So I think it quite possible that Oden will enter the summer as a fully unrestricted free agent.

He won't be available for the minimum though I don't think. Heck, even Shaun Livingston got a 3 year contract, even if it's not for a large yearly amount. I think Oden could well get a 3 year $10m offer, which is about right for a backup center.


I feel bad for him as a person.

But I think with Yao and Oden's injuries teams will think long and hard about drafting really big centers. They are injury prone

Scary considering how much we're relying on Hibbert. Good thing we're not playing him 40 min a night eh?

ballism
11-18-2010, 09:44 AM
Scary considering how much we're relying on Hibbert. Good thing we're not playing him 40 min a night eh?

Also, good thing that he's not from a country that would pretty much blackmail him into spending all summers carrying a national team, instead of taking some needed rest. :)

Some really talented centers had a really tough break being born at the wrong place or wrong time.

owl
11-18-2010, 09:50 AM
Everyone knows by now that Portland did not extend Oden. However they still retain the rights to match any offer made to him when he turns FA next summer.

The problem I see in acquiring Oden is to pay him enough that Portland will not bother matching the offer, but not paying him "too much"... however much that happens to be.

I just don't think it would be wise to pay much more than $2M/year for maybe a 2 year contract. If that is enough to get him and he pans out, you've hit the jackpot. If he doesn't pan out, you've wasted $4M and a roster spot. Is that something the Pacers can afford to do?

They seem to find players every year that never earn a penny of their salaries.
Sit on the bench or buyout their contracts. Or draft players in the second round and sign to a two year guaranteed contract. Better yet then cut them. So, if Oden heals up I would at least look at signing him to a low dollar contract. If he gets healthy then pay a bigger contract. I suspect however any season next year will be much shorter than normal.

cordobes
11-18-2010, 10:27 AM
Not quite correct. Portland will retain restricted FA rights to Oden if they extend him a qualifying offer. Since Oden was the #1 pick of his batch, his qualifying number is quite large ($8m+) and it's no longer certain that the Blazers will offer that. So I think it quite possible that Oden will enter the summer as a fully unrestricted free agent.

I'm curious about that too. His GM said he was going to be restricted:



Rich Cho

"Greg is still a part of the team. He is going to be a restricted free agent this summer. I expect him to be a part of the team. He will be restricted, he will be able to look at other teams

From BlazersEdge (http://www.blazersedge.com/).

On the other hand:


The overall feel from this year's press conference compared to last year's press conference after Oden went down against the Rockets could not have been more different. Last year, Kevin Pritchard was very focused on Greg Oden bouncing back as a Blazer. This year, it felt a lot like a true beginning of the end.

DaveP63
11-18-2010, 10:28 AM
What a sad deal. Hope that it gets worked out for him so he can at least play a few years. I'd say his career ended light is on in Portland, though...

Eindar
11-18-2010, 10:59 AM
This case has a lot more in common with Bender than anyone else mentioned. Young, chronic knee problems. We've seen this story play out before. According to Reggie on a TNT telecast a while back, Bender had microfracture on both knees. You see how well that's turned out. Now, Bender's game was dependent upon being a freak athlete, whereas a big man can get away with a little less in that department, but he's also carrying around a lot more weight.


Nothing's impossible, but I think it's unlikely he ever gives you more than 60 games per year and limited minutes.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 11:02 AM
Make no bones about it, Greg Oden's game was all about being a freak athlete too. He has no post moves to speak of other than overpowering people and throwing it down. He also always benefited from great guard play.

vnzla81
11-18-2010, 11:10 AM
I don't think he is going to have any issues in coming back, his previous microfacture surgery was done in his right knee and according to the Trail Blazers yesterday his knee is stronger that what it was before the surgery, they also said that the surgery in his left knee was successful and that the pain and discomfort he was having was related to something else, reason why they went to get a second opinion and found that he needs a microfacture surgery on his left knee.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 11:17 AM
Is everyone ignoring that last season his kneecap snapped in half like a stale potato chip? You put that with two microfracture surgeries, and Oden has an injury history that is more catastrophic than just about anyone else in the league.

How can you not expect him to not have any issues coming back? That just makes no sense. He didn't even COME BACK this time before he got hurt again.

Not to mention this will be the second straight injury that will severely limit his conditioning. He's not going to have played competitive basketball for like TWO YEARS. If he doesn't come back packing some serious extra poundage and way out of shape I will be shocked, and I'm not sure that's even his fault. This string of injuries is pretty much the most severe I can think of in recent memory in the NBA.

He should retire, and go back to Ohio State and finish his degree.

Smoothdave1
11-18-2010, 01:51 PM
Why all the negativity towards Oden?

Yes, his has been injury prone, but he's also only 22 years old. Yes, he's caught several bad breaks over the past few years, but I don't think that he's finished yet.

Oden will get to spend a good part of the next year doing rehab and working out. I doubt Portland will offer him his qualifying offer of roughly 8.8 million, which makes his an unrestricted free agent. As a Pacers fan, I am intrigued in what he brings to the table. I think being back in Indy and playing close to family and friends may help Oden. Look what it's done for McRoberts!

Oden is about 13 months younger than Roy and I'm not ready to write him off yet. If he is willing to come to Indy for maybe 2-3 million a year, I would take the chance. As has been mentioned, he has a low risk/high reward player. Do I expect him to come in and be the next Shaq, Hakeem or Ewing? Absolutely not. But I do think he could come back fairly healthy and give the Pacers quality minutes off the bench behind Roy. Besides, would you rather pay a guy like Oden 2-3 million or a guy like Solo 1.5 million? I think this will be Foster's last season and I doubt Solo will be retained. Why not try for a guy like Oden. We'll have plenty of cash, he was loved when he went to Lawrence North, his Mom still lives on the NE side of Indy, Greg is good friends with McRoberts and there's a need for a backup 5.

Maybe he could be added to the core of Granger, Roy, Tyler, Paul, AJ, Lance, Josh, DC, etc.?

pacer4ever
11-18-2010, 01:55 PM
Why all the negativity towards Oden?

Yes, his has been injury prone, but he's also only 22 years old. Yes, he's caught several bad breaks over the past few years, but I don't think that he's finished yet.

Oden will get to spend a good part of the next year doing rehab and working out. I doubt Portland will offer him his qualifying offer of roughly 8.8 million, which makes his an unrestricted free agent. As a Pacers fan, I am intrigued in what he brings to the table. I think being back in Indy and playing close to family and friends may help Oden. Look what it's done for McRoberts!

Oden is about 13 months younger than Roy and I'm not ready to write him off yet. If he is willing to come to Indy for maybe 2-3 million a year, I would take the chance. As has been mentioned, he has a low risk/high reward player. Do I expect him to come in and be the next Shaq, Hakeem or Ewing? Absolutely not. But I do think he could come back fairly healthy and give the Pacers quality minutes off the bench behind Roy. Besides, would you rather pay a guy like Oden 2-3 million or a guy like Solo 1.5 million? I think this will be Foster's last season and I doubt Solo will be retained. Why not try for a guy like Oden. We'll have plenty of cash, he was loved when he went to Lawrence North, his Mom still lives on the NE side of Indy, Greg is good friends with McRoberts and there's a need for a backup 5.

Maybe he could be added to the core of Granger, Roy, Tyler, Paul, AJ, Lance, Josh, DC, etc.?

not gonna happen he would get more because some gms and owners are dumb.

Smoothdave1
11-18-2010, 01:57 PM
not gonna happen he would get more because some gms and owners are dumb.

We'll see what happens with the new CBA.

Besides, what if Oden is able to come back and become a starter? We'll all kick ourselves and moan about how Bird could have gotten Oden at a hometown discount and failed to do so.

pacer4ever
11-18-2010, 02:01 PM
We'll see what happens with the new CBA.

Besides, what if Oden is able to come back and become a starter? We'll all kick ourselves and moan about how Bird could have gotten Oden at a hometown discount and failed to do so.

:50cent:

Mackey_Rose
11-18-2010, 02:05 PM
I don't think it is crazy to suggest that the Pacers give this guy a chance to get healthy. Obviously it would have to be a for a very low cost deal, but the potential reward is huge, and really outweighs the risk, in my opinion.

Smoothdave1
11-18-2010, 02:24 PM
I didn't know that PD had so many Orthopedic Surgeons posting?

pacer4ever
11-18-2010, 02:32 PM
I didn't know that PD had so many Orthopedic Surgeons posting?

WTF the guy has been getting hurt sense 7 grade. Doesnt take a brain or knee surgeon to say the guy is done. He has been hurt and hurt badly way to much

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 02:47 PM
I didn't know that PD had so many Orthopedic Surgeons posting?

It doesn't take a surgeon to see a pattern this big...sometimes a spade is just a spade, and Oden has been bitten with injuries, severe injuries at that, since his junior year of high school at least. This isn't a guy like Grant Hill who had one thing bothering him, or a guy like Amare who had one major surgery. This is a guy who has had both knees fail on him in different ways.

It's sad to even talk about come backs when it comes to Greg. He was on a come back from his last major injury and never played a game before he's going back with another one. His body is just flat out breaking down on him.

Has he done any physical activity that should have caused this new injury? I mean what if next December he's healing, oh he's gonna be coming back, then bam his other knee cap cracks in half, are we going to have to hear about comebacks again?

This comeback WAS a comeback and it failed miserably, why is the next one gonna work? I like Greg, and that's why my sincerest advice to him would be to retire now, stop chasing a dream that is causing you physical and likely mental pain, leave while your body isn't totally broken down yet, and go get your college degree. He's a smart guy so he would be able to, don't end up 32 years old with 5 or 6 knee surgeries on both knees and barely able to walk, with 5 failed comebacks to show for it all.

Shade
11-18-2010, 02:49 PM
At first, I thought this had been bumped from last season.

Damn shame. He could have been one of the all-time greats.

odeez
11-18-2010, 04:02 PM
just sad, period. the Blazers aren't having much luck with knees...

SoupIsGood
11-18-2010, 04:10 PM
Man. I've always been a big Oden fan.

He shouldn't rush into signing with another team. Use the $ he's earned so far to let the current rehab take absolutely as long as is needed, no rushing at all, while exploring other options like TJ suggested. He's still a very young man, and in five years I don't think it's impossible that he could be carving out a Brian Grant-type career in the league.

Of course, that's if he still really enjoys basketball much at all. I don't know that I would. He's a pretty smart guy; he can be successful in a lot of things.

vnzla81
11-18-2010, 05:24 PM
Here is an article about Greg Oden injuries and issues before the draft:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=jy-odeninjured102908


Maybe this, like the ankle sprain, doesn’t turn out to be serious, either. But some league executives who have seen Oden’s pre-draft medical report are skeptical of his ability to stay healthy for the long-term. Asked late Tuesday what in the report raised concerns, one Eastern Conference player personnel director was succinct with his answer: “Everything.”

Oden’s right leg is slightly longer than his left, which can create hip alignment problems, a condition that bothered former San Antonio Spurs center David Robinson late in his career. The physical also showed Oden had a bulging disc in his back. His knees were another potential area of worry.

vnzla81
11-18-2010, 05:37 PM
Here is also another article talking about the Trail Blazers medical staff

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Oden-101118



And it's possible he needs to be surrounded by a different medical and training staff. Oden's knee troubles are the latest in a Portland line that includes Zach Randolph, Darius Miles, Joel Przybilla and Brandon Roy, the franchise player who limped through the playoffs and currently is on the shelf for at least a week. I've had NBA people from inside and outside the organization cast wary eyes on the Trail Blazers' medical ways.

At a news conference Wednesday, the Blazers went out of their way to praise the medical staff, with team president Larry Miller saying, "We have without a doubt one of the most respected medical and training staffs in all of sports," and general manager Rich Cho's opening statement consisting of "These guys are top notch. These guys are very knowledgeable, thorough, extremely hard-working, and I support them 100 percent."

Dece
11-18-2010, 05:55 PM
Never like to see injuries, I sympathize (but only a little, kid still is a multimillionaire), but wow, "coulda been one of the all time greats" ??

Let's save the crazy semi plausible possibility statements for people who've at least shown they can be something in the NBA. He's never been healthy enough to even give us an indication he'd be an allstar if healthy.

Anyway, best of luck in his rehab.

BlueNGold
11-18-2010, 06:08 PM
Never like to see injuries, I sympathize (but only a little, kid still is a multimillionaire), but wow, "coulda been one of the all time greats" ??

Let's save the crazy semi plausible possibility statements for people who've at least shown they can be something in the NBA. He's never been healthy enough to even give us an indication he'd be an allstar if healthy.

Anyway, best of luck in his rehab.

One of the all-time greats? Nobody knows. But there are some things that are pretty obvious.

He would have been an absolute force in the paint on defense. He's like a bigger, longer version of Ben Wallace. In the NCAA's, he made Horford and Noah look like children.

Let's just say, Oden against Dwight Howard would have been a fun thing to watch.

BlueNGold
11-18-2010, 06:14 PM
He's never been healthy enough to even give us an indication he'd be an allstar if healthy.


:bs:

Hey, I'm not even an Oden fan...certainly not his alma mater or Portland...but this is clearly a false statement. We all saw enough of him at OSU going up against (now) good NBA players to know he would have eaten them alive. In fact, he was far better than Noah and Horford in college and they may both be all-stars. Far better. It wasn't even close.

d_c
11-18-2010, 06:24 PM
:bs:

Hey, I'm not even an Oden fan...certainly not his alma mater or Portland...but this is clearly a false statement. We all saw enough of him at OSU going up against (now) good NBA players to know he would have eaten them alive. In fact, he was far better than Noah and Horford in college and they may both be all-stars. Far better. It wasn't even close.

Yep. In that NCAA finals vs. Florida, Oden was the best player on the floor even though his team lost. He was better than both those guys, easily.

I feel bad for Oden. He seems like a good guy. I really thought that he was going to be the closest thing to Bill Russell when he came out of college. He looked like a guy who was going to score about 15-18 a game and totally dominate defensively and on the boards.

It's just too bad his body gave out on him at such a young age. Guy's pro career was basically over before it even began. Too bad this happened to one of the good guys. Just really unfortunate.

MaHa3000
11-18-2010, 06:28 PM
He would look good in a Pacers uniform even if he was our 15th man. PR and marketing would benifit for sure. League min. $ would be a no-brainer.

vnzla81
11-18-2010, 06:39 PM
I was looking at this video and it seems to me like he doesn't bend his knees when landing :-o

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YZ0QwxWgA9E?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YZ0QwxWgA9E?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Lance George
11-18-2010, 07:17 PM
Oden played enough to show that he could be a dominant defender and rebounder, with enough raw physical gifts to also be an effective scorer. He could've easily have been a bigger version of Dwight Howard in time.

DGPR
11-18-2010, 07:29 PM
I feel bad for Greg because you know he wants to play in his heart but his knees just aren't stable enough.

xBulletproof
11-18-2010, 07:51 PM
Hey, I'm not even an Oden fan...certainly not his alma mater or Portland...but this is clearly a false statement. We all saw enough of him at OSU going up against (now) good NBA players to know he would have eaten them alive. In fact, he was far better than Noah and Horford in college and they may both be all-stars. Far better. It wasn't even close.

If this logic held true then there wouldn't be busts in NBA drafts. We clearly know that's not true.

Lance George
11-18-2010, 08:24 PM
Question: How do medical examinations work during free agency? Say we have interest in Oden next summer. How much physical evaluating could we do before we make him an offer?

KennerLeaguer
11-18-2010, 09:39 PM
I feel bad for him as a person.

But I think with Yao and Oden's injuries teams will think long and hard about drafting really big centers. They are injury prone


Oden is only 6'11 without shoes. He's not what you would call really big for that position, not even in today's NBA.

KennerLeaguer
11-18-2010, 09:44 PM
:bs:

Hey, I'm not even an Oden fan...certainly not his alma mater or Portland...but this is clearly a false statement. We all saw enough of him at OSU going up against (now) good NBA players to know he would have eaten them alive. In fact, he was far better than Noah and Horford in college and they may both be all-stars. Far better. It wasn't even close.

In college Roy outplayed Oden and held his own against both Noah and Horford and yet BARELY ANYONE thought he had any chance of being an NBA All Star. Therefore what one does in college doesn't always tell the whole story.

BlueNGold
11-18-2010, 10:06 PM
In college Roy outplayed Oden and held his own against both Noah and Horford and yet BARELY ANYONE thought he had any chance of being an NBA All Star. Therefore what one does in college doesn't always tell the whole story.

That's true. Roy was about the only guy who could get his shot up over Oden. At the same time, Oden had far more potential. Roy is sniffing around the all-star room. Oden would be in it if his career had not been derailed from...even before he got into the NBA.

The reality is, very few NCAA players are locks in the NBA. Especially now that players leave early. There are some though. Blake Griffin has about a 0% chance of being a bust. Again, very few. Greg Oden is another barring injury of course.

The fact there is a reasonable chance most players are a bust...does not mean that is always the case.

Kaufman
11-18-2010, 10:09 PM
Question: How do medical examinations work during free agency? Say we have interest in Oden next summer. How much physical evaluating could we do before we make him an offer?

Typically this isn't a complicated process. He would be examined by a prospective team's medical staff including sports physician or orthopod. This would entail a physical exam at which time most often joints are tested, reflexes, hernias, and muscle strength. Its a quick 10 minute exam.

Weight bearing bones and joints are typically the money spots - neck/back/hips/knees/ankles. Less importance to shoulders and elbows, wrists.

Limited blood work including blood counts and chemistries along with liver and kidney function.

Thereafter depending on concerns for various joints, further imaging is done. This can include plain x-rays or more sophisticated testing, including MRIs and such. These are typically compared to old images made available by previous team. This is from the physician's standpoint. From a trainer's standpoint, endurance and such is also tested.

Kaufman
11-18-2010, 10:10 PM
I didn't know that PD had so many Orthopedic Surgeons posting?

just a few.

KennerLeaguer
11-18-2010, 11:04 PM
That's true. Roy was about the only guy who could get his shot up over Oden. At the same time, Oden had far more potential. Roy is sniffing around the all-star room. Oden would be in it if his career had not been derailed from...even before he got into the NBA.



I like Oden but his rep of not having a great work ethic prevents me from agreeing.

Kaufman
11-18-2010, 11:25 PM
I'm not sure if anyone would find this interesting but I'll give my take on injury and disease from a physician's perspective.

Amongst medical professionals, we often joke that so-and-so is bad "protoplasm". They just continue to have various ailments and diseases. A lot of the time, cancer patients keep coming back with different cancer types. Eventually one of those cancers claims them. Its a strange part of medicine.

So are we predisposed or is it the environment that causes such things? Probably both. Genetics are important and cannot be overlooked. What we are born with is what we have to work with. If John Stewart has a dilated and hypertrophic heart, he needs to find a way to survive with it or he succumbs to it. And unfortunately we never got to see him play at the University of Kentucky.

So what is wrong with Greg Oden? Is there some genetic predisposition? I don't know. One might imagine there is some role for this here. I personally think with guys with these huge frames, there is a role with the patient's weight. The more weight he puts on weight bearing joints - hips, knees, and ankles, the more injury and re-injury. Every time any of us walks from point A to point B, we are "injuring" ourselves. Imagine carrying around 280+ pounds around on those joints? Otherwise heavy people have plenty of joint issues, imagine these guys who put a tremendous amount of strain on their joints with athletics.

On top of that, if you think about it logically - the knees are extremely vulnerable. Ankles and hips have huge and wide ranges of motion, but knees really only go forwards or backwards. If they end up going side to side, you have injuries.

Another thing I want to throw out is steroids and supplements. I'm not suggesting that Greg Oden does anything of this nature, but often when looking at chronically injury proned athletes, I do consider these types of things. I'll throw one name out there from the past - Steve Emtman. I do think there is also a huge role for a balanced diet. Elite athletes need to be getting proper nutrition - proteins, calcium and such.

So Greg Oden. What is the problem? I would imagine a combination of both size/weight and protoplasm. My one thought for him and the sake of his longevity would be to slim up. Leaner is better in most instances.

xBulletproof
11-18-2010, 11:31 PM
If John Long has a dilated and hypertrophic heart, he needs to find a way to survive with it or he succumbs to it. And unfortunately we never got to see him play at the University of Kentucky.

So Greg Oden. What is the problem? I would imagine a combination of both size/weight and protoplasm. My one thought for him and the sake of his longevity would be to slim up. Leaner is better in most instances.

For the bolded part, did you mean John Stewart? He had a heart problem and never made it to Kentucky. I knew him, played ball with him. It's sad.

For the 2nd part, how can you slim up when you can't do any cardio? I imagine with your knee's that messed up, it's pretty difficult. I suppose you could do work in a pool.

Kaufman
11-18-2010, 11:33 PM
Fixed. Thanks. i'm an idiot. fixed again. its late. i'm going to bed.

Swimming. Stationary bike, rowing. Diet modification.

MLB007
11-19-2010, 12:28 AM
Fixed. Thanks. John Long former Pacer center prior to Rik.

Swimming. Stationary bike, rowing. Diet modification.

???
John Long was a 2 guard for the Pacers.
Around the time Reggie came I think.
Freaking looney Kaufman ;)

Kaufman
11-19-2010, 12:53 AM
damn.

call me kauffie.

BlueNGold
11-19-2010, 11:32 PM
I like Oden but his rep of not having a great work ethic prevents me from agreeing.

I don't think we'll ever know.

With all due respect to Greg Oden, who seems to be a very nice guy...his body is not going to handle the rigors of the NBA. Very sad situation. He has "old man" type issues IMO. Bulging disk. Bad, bad knees. I still hope for the best...and I think "best" might be to retire now.

Sollozzo
11-19-2010, 11:47 PM
Some players start out like this then get healthier. Remember when we all "knew" Grant Hill was "done" in Orlando?

I say take a chance if the price is right. Low risk, high reward.



True, but keep in mind that Grant Hill's body had shown that it could handle NBA basketball. Through 4 years, Oden's still hasn't done that.

croz24
11-20-2010, 12:10 AM
if portland does make the qualifying offer to oden, i think that's a good sign they expect him to at least be a rotational player for them in the future.

pacers74
11-20-2010, 08:45 AM
I can't bleive Portland is thinking about giving him an 8.8 mil extension. It reminds me so much of the Bender fiasco that we were in. Couldn't Portland find a better use for 8.8 mil. They could go after Jeff Green or someone like that.

Oh well, if they give him the extension then they wouldn't have the 8.8 mil to go after someone we can sign.

cordobes
11-20-2010, 09:58 PM
I can't bleive Portland is thinking about giving him an 8.8 mil extension. It reminds me so much of the Bender fiasco that we were in. Couldn't Portland find a better use for 8.8 mil. They could go after Jeff Green or someone like that.

Oh well, if they give him the extension then they wouldn't have the 8.8 mil to go after someone we can sign.

They'd never be under the cap one way or the other. The $8.8 million is the QO of his rookie contract; in any case, teams can retain their own free-agents without being under the cap. So, they couldn't really use that money in any other way, except by saving it.

I think that as long as his recovery is going well, he's worth that investment. They've already invested so much on him and reaped so little... no reason to cut losses at this point when everything they could save it's $9 millions.

Lance George
11-20-2010, 10:35 PM
A healthy Oden is so much better than everything else that will be available that we'd be foolish not to check into him come next summer. If a competent doctor says his career is shot, then obviously we should pass on him. If, however, a reliable doctor says his injuries aren't career-threatening, and he's back, or nearly back, to being able to partake in high-level physical activities, we should strongly consider offering him a fair─but safe─contract. What that would be depends entirely on what his long-term diagnosis is.

Kaufman
11-20-2010, 10:55 PM
A healthy Oden is so much better than everything else that will be available that we'd be foolish not to check into him come next summer. If a competent doctor says his career is shot, then obviously we should pass on him. If, however, a reliable doctor says his injuries aren't career-threatening, and he's back, or nearly back, to being able to partake in high-level physical activities, we should strongly consider offering him a fair─but safe─contract. What that would be depends entirely on what his long-term diagnosis is.

I just want to clarify for you - that it doesn't work the way you might think it does.

Doctors don't have crystal balls. We will only tell you if someone is currently healthy or not and occasionally we will estimate recovery time.

No physician in their right mind would say that Greg Oden's "career is shot".

BlueNGold
11-20-2010, 11:07 PM
I go back and forth on this. He just might be drawn to working in his hometown. I think it's something to investigate.

If Oden ever did have stable health, he is athletic enough to pair with Roy. No doubt about it.

Lance George
11-20-2010, 11:27 PM
I just want to clarify for you - that it doesn't work the way you might think it does.

Doctors don't have crystal balls. We will only tell you if someone is currently healthy or not and occasionally we will estimate recovery time.

No physician in their right mind would say that Greg Oden's "career is shot".

I'm not talking about statements of 100% certainty, but a well-educated estimation based on a thorough evaluation. If a doctor can't give me that then it's time to look elsewhere.

Kaufman
11-20-2010, 11:40 PM
You had indicated that you were looking for a doctor to tell you that his "career was shot". I was just saying that no doctor would ever say that with any degree of certainty. Nobody would even say it with any degree of uncertainty.

Lance George
11-21-2010, 12:10 AM
You had indicated that you were looking for a doctor to tell you that his "career was shot". I was just saying that no doctor would ever say that with any degree of certainty. Nobody would even say it with any degree of uncertainty.

I would think a competent doctor could give an educated guess as to whether or not Oden was─or will be, given sufficient time to fully heal─physically capable of returning to professional basketball. This is assuming no further injuries, of course. If not, well then I've greatly overestimated the ability of doctors.

For the record, I've heard of many instances where doctors have (allegedly) made statements of certainty regarding whether or not a person could return to a given physical activity. Perhaps these were all made-up or the doctors were all quacks. Or perhaps you're just wrong. :p

Kaufman
11-21-2010, 12:23 AM
You're right. I have no idea how the profession works.