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View Full Version : Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat



Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 12:53 AM
Just for funsies...

Yay or nay.

BRushWithDeath
11-16-2010, 12:54 AM
I saw him airball a shot once.

Nay.

BRushWithDeath
11-16-2010, 12:57 AM
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/092009/1251884400_david_after_the_dentist.gif

Is this real life?

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 01:04 AM
im gonna pull one of those lines i see from time to time on here and say pls define consistent 3 pt shooter?

if by consistent meaning on a nightly basis he is a threat to knock down open 3's.. then the answer is NO.

i can tell right now this is not a subject thats going to go away.. so im glad we have a thread on it so all those who are so confident in rush's consistent 3 pt shooting can now at the very least take a much closer look, as opposed to only basing it upon %'s.

look forward to responses were gonna see as the season goes on. unless rush improved his shooting over the summer, unfortunately i feel i will end up being correct.

Anthem
11-16-2010, 01:09 AM
You know, if you want to get all technical and semantic about it, you could argue that the question "Is Rush a consistent threat from behind the line" is a different question than "Does Rush shoot consistently from behind the line."

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 01:09 AM
im gonna pull one of those lines i see from time to time on here and say pls define consistent 3 pt shooter?
Ok, I'll let you do it.




if by consistent meaning on a nightly basis he is a threat to knock down open 3's..
I would say this is a good definition.



then the answer is NO.

You are wrong.



i can tell right now this is not a subject thats going to go away..
I can't believe it's a subject that ever even had to come up.



so im glad we have a thread on it so all those who are so confident in rush's consistent 3 pt shooting can now at the very least take a much closer look, as opposed to only basing it upon %'s.

I'm not sure what else you base shooting consistency on other than the %'s, but I'm sure you'll try to find something.



look forward to responses were gonna see as the season goes on. unless rush improved his shooting over the summer, unfortunately i feel i will end up being correct.

If you had asked me during the offseason to list possible thread titles I might create this season from 1 to 1000 this would be number 998...right behind no. 997 "Danny Granger moves to Iraq to fight for the Jihad" and right in front of no. 999 "Jeff Foster: Great point guard or greatEST point guard" and no. 1000 "100 Reasons We Should Trade for Stephen Jackson and re-sign Jamaal Tinsley and then allow guns in the locker room, also Fingers should be our new head coach"

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 01:10 AM
Why didn't you vote no, then?

Also, as Kegboy would say, :booprivatepoll:

It's not a private poll.

MillerTime
11-16-2010, 01:11 AM
This shouldnt even be a question

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 01:15 AM
You know, if you want to get all technical and semantic about it, you could argue that the question "Is Rush a consistent threat from behind the line" is a different question than "Does Rush shoot consistently from behind the line."

Well this begs the question, which line are we talking about here?!?!?!
:devil:

Gamble1
11-16-2010, 01:18 AM
Just for funsies...

Yay or nay.
I voted no because he doesn't shoot enough to be a threat. If you told a team before a game that our sg would only take 6 shots in 20 some minutes I don't think they would consider that a threat either.:D

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 01:18 AM
Rush shot the third most 3s on the team last season...Behind only Granger who shot an absurd 438, and Murphy (shudder).

In fact Rush shot almost as many 3s as 2s, this thread isn't about his aggressiveness though.

cdash
11-16-2010, 10:34 AM
I think he is. That's about all he does well on offense though, sadly.

Brad8888
11-16-2010, 10:46 AM
When Brandon goes on a "hot streak" look out, he might be willing to take four shots in a quarter.

Oh, is he consistent? Yes, he consistently shoots 3 point shots as opposed to driving to the rim, regardless of whether he is a consistent threat with respect to actually making them or not as Anthem pointed out.

Gamble1
11-16-2010, 10:58 AM
Rush shot the third most 3s on the team last season...Behind only Granger who shot an absurd 438, and Murphy (shudder).

In fact Rush shot almost as many 3s as 2s, this thread isn't about his aggressiveness though.
Well to me a threat is not 8 to 9 points in 30 minutes. When thats your season average its hard to argue that he is a threat offensively anywhere.

You think teams really worry about Rush's 3 point shooting?

BRushWithDeath
11-16-2010, 11:28 AM
Does he shoot enough? No. Is he aggressive enough? Hell no. Is he frustrating in that he'll show flashes of brilliance mixed in with extended periods of offensive disappearances? Of course. Is he a consistent 3 point threat? Obviously. This argument is all sorts of retarded.

There are plenty of things to ***** about with Brandon. But not this.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 11:55 AM
I am willing to go a step further with this and state Rush is a very average shooter at best, based on expectations of him out of college some could even consider him terrible.

Anyone who is not biased and makes a fair observation of Rush's talents should see this, so in many ways yes this argument is "foolish" and should not require a thread in order to be concluded that Rush is not a [B]consistent[B] 3 point shooter.

In fact, I have yet to be convinced Rush is a good shooter at all. Rush shoots 67% from the free throw line and yet those on here who were willing to vote yes on this poll believe he is a consistent threat?? Maybe some are still viewing Rush from his KU days and need to take better look at how bad of a shooter Brandon Rush is. I clarify by saying Brandon because his brother Kareem was the one who could shoot the rock, Brandon is no where even close to having that type of ability.

First, as many have already eluded too, Rush only shoots when he is wide open, the majority of his attempts he has his feet set, and has a good look at the rim, most prolific shooters in this league rarely get that opportunity.

How often does Rush come off of a screen and shoot the ball, how often does Rush come down on a fast break attempt and shoot with a hand in his face like Granger does, how often does Rush take 1 or 2 dribbles to get open and then shoot the ball.. the answer is very rarely to all the above. The reason, because he is not CONSISTENT at shooting the ball.

For a guy who shoots 41% you would think he would be more of a focus on the offensive end, but he is not and with good reason. The only attempts Rush usually takes is when he is wide open and the D has dropped down to double team the post or something to that effect.

There are 4 guys I would much prefer shooting the 3 ball over Rush: Granger, Dunleavy, Posey, and even George.

Rush is a stationary shooter, rarely does he have the confidence to pull up when his defender is gaurding him tight. As I have already mentioned previously in the other thread where this discussion began, %'s are at times very misleading. Rush may shoot 41% from 3 last season, but the majority of his shots are wide open and he is set. Thankfully, Rush does not come off of screens and try shooting the ball because he %'s would go way down.

Rush is an average shooter at best, and a terrible free throw shooter, which is a very good indicator that Rush is not a good shooter overall.

Pacer fans, do not misinterpret my comments here, I support Rush as long as he wears Blue & Gold, and I hope that he improves his jump shooting capabilities this season and changes my opinion of his ability. I also believe Rush is a very good player defensively, and can rebound from the sg position. He has value, but for those who suggest Rush is a good shooter, and consistent from three I will politely disagree with 100%.

As I stated once before, Rush on occcasion will have a good shooting night, normally 1 game out of 10, and then he goes back into passive mode and offers very little on the offensive end of the court.

I am not implying that Rush does not have the ability to be a good shooter, but at this time and from what I have seen based on performance, Rush is average when it comes to shooting overall.

The good shooters in this league do not get left wide open, Granger rarely gets an attempt without a hand in his face, and even with a hand up Granger will still knock it down.

For those of you who only want to base his shooting ability on stats, go right ahead, there are many shooters in this league who shoot 36% I would prefer taking a wide open 3 than Rush.

I honestly hope that Rush proves me wrong this season and becomes a consistent shooter, but from what I have witness thus far, the answer is clearly NO, he is not consistent at all.

To reiterate what began this conversation to begin with, Rush has poor follow through on his jumper, he needs to hire a shooting coach to help him with his form imho; obviously it would not hurt any when it comes to his free throw % either.

Go Pacers!

imawhat
11-16-2010, 11:59 AM
I think the nos in this thread prove how easy it is to dislike Brandon and ignore his strengths.

Next poll: is LeBron James athletic?

BRushWithDeath
11-16-2010, 12:04 PM
I think the nos in this thread prove how easy it is to dislike Brandon and ignore his strengths.

Next poll: is LeBron James athletic?

No. I saw him trip on his own once.

vnzla81
11-16-2010, 12:05 PM
I think the nos in this thread prove how easy it is to dislike Brandon and ignore his strengths.

Next poll: is LeBron James athletic?

I votes no because this thread sucks :D

skip2mylou
11-16-2010, 12:19 PM
Let's hope so. Because if not, it would be useless for him to cross halfcourt.(except for once a week, when he wakes up)

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 12:24 PM
2005-06 47.2%
2006-07 43.1%
2007-08 41.9%
2008-09 37.3%
2009-10 41.1%
2010-11 30%

Ten shots, when you consider the bulk of his career, is a terrible sample size.

Now, numbers don't tell the whole story. However, the numbers are telling me that if you think Rush is a poor shooter then you are taking outliers and using only those instances to pass judgment. Then saying something like "I don't think he's a good shooter" only makes it sound like you know better than data samples built up over the last 6 seasons. This is a pretty ignorant situation to get yourself into.

For the record, I voted "Is this real life?"

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 12:31 PM
2005-06 47.2%
2006-07 43.1%
2007-08 41.9%
2008-09 37.3%
2009-10 41.1%
2010-11 30%

Ten shots, when you consider the bulk of his career, is a terrible sample size.

Now, numbers don't tell the whole story. However, the numbers are telling me that if you think Rush is a poor shooter then you are taking outliers and using only those instances to pass judgment. Then saying something like "I don't think he's a good shooter" only makes it sound like you know better than data samples built up over the last 6 seasons. This is a pretty ignorant situation to get yourself into.

For the record, I voted "Is this real life?"

Im sorry, I didnt realize this question was based on college statistics, in that case.. the question should be the following..

is Adam Morrison or Brandon Rush the better 3 pt shooter. pretty "ignorant" situation you just got yourself into.

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 12:40 PM
In fact, I have yet to be convinced Rush is a good shooter at all.

This is easy to do when you ignore the other side of the debate.


How often does Rush come off of a screen and shoot the ball, how often does Rush come down on a fast break attempt and shoot with a hand in his face like Granger does, how often does Rush take 1 or 2 dribbles to get open and then shoot the ball.. the answer is very rarely to all the above. The reason, because he is not CONSISTENT at shooting the ball.

So he's a bad shooter because he doesn't take contested shots?


Rush is a stationary shooter, rarely does he have the confidence to pull up when his defender is gaurding him tight. As I have already mentioned previously in the other thread where this discussion began, %'s are at times very misleading. Rush may shoot 41% from 3 last season, but the majority of his shots are wide open and he is set. Thankfully, Rush does not come off of screens and try shooting the ball because he %'s would go way down.

So good shot selection makes someone a bad shooter?


For those of you who only want to base his shooting ability on stats, go right ahead, there are many shooters in this league who shoot 36% I would prefer taking a wide open 3 than Rush.

Stats don't lie. They keep track of the things your brain forgets with time. The brain typically remembers only the glaring good and glaring bad.

One last thing:

All clutch shooters are good, not all good shooters are clutch.

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 12:43 PM
Im sorry, I didnt realize this question was based on college statistics, in that case.. the question should be the following..

is Adam Morrison or Brandon Rush the better 3 pt shooter. pretty "ignorant" situation you just got yourself into.

Fine. You want to dismiss what you consider "irrelevant".

2008-09 37.3%
2009-10 41.1%
2010-11 30%

One these things is not like the other. Maybe it's the one that only measures ten shots.

And to the bold:

http://www.gilacourier.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/strawman-motivational1.jpg

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 01:26 PM
I can only hope that 8 out of those 9 "No" votes are jokes.

My next poll will be: Roy Hibbert: Is he tall or is it just an optical illusion?

I guess some of you would also say that Robert Horry was not a consistent three point threat due to the fact that he rarely shot the ball?

Mackey_Rose
11-16-2010, 01:29 PM
I can only hope that 8 out of those 9 "No" votes are jokes.

My next poll will be: Roy Hibbert: Is he tall or is it just an optical illusion?

I guess some of you would also say that Robert Horry was not a consistent three point threat due to the fact that he rarely shot the ball?

He isn't that tall. Maybe in some games, but more often than not he isn't. The question should be, who's taller Hibbert or Muresan?

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 01:30 PM
Im sorry, I didnt realize this question was based on college statistics, in that case.. the question should be the following..

is Adam Morrison or Brandon Rush the better 3 pt shooter. pretty "ignorant" situation you just got yourself into.

Morrison never shot better than 33.7% from 3 in the NBA and that was during his rookie year. I'd say it's pretty clear who was the better shooter between him and Rush even if we toss out their college statistics. So, I'm not sure your point stood up as well as you would hope it would.

Oh also, Morrison's college stats from behind the 3 point line...

30%
31%
42.8%


Brandon Rush's college stats from behind the 3 point line...
47.4%
43.1%
41.9%


Adam Morrison was without doubt one of the most overrated shooters of all time. He never came close to Brandon's 3 point %'s against much weaker competition. Generally you will find that if a guy was a good shooter in college, he will be a good shooter in the pros, and if he was a bad or overrated scorer in college, he will also be that in the pros. Morrison proves both of those points wonderfully. Thanks for bringing him up.

Also, thanks for bringing him up without actually double checking his %'s in college.

And here just for fun, were Kareem Rush's stats in college since we've already proven he wasn't as reliable as his brother in the pros...

42.6%
44.8%
40.5%

Kareem only out did his brother in one year.

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 01:32 PM
Morrison never shot better than 33.7% from 3 in the NBA and that was during his rookie year. I'd say it's pretty clear who was the better shooter between him and Rush even if we toss out their college statistics. So, I'm not sure your point stood up as well as you would hope it would.

In College Morrison averaged ~36% from 3Pt. Rush was still somewhere around 43%. I don't know what point he was trying to make with that, but it didn't address my argument anyway.

Mackey_Rose
11-16-2010, 01:32 PM
In College Morrison averaged ~36% from 3Pt. Rush was still somewhere around 42%. I don't know that point he was trying to make with that, but it didn't address my argument anyway.

I'd just stop arguing with this guy. He is completely out of touch with reality.

ballism
11-16-2010, 02:05 PM
He shoots well enough to strech defenses consistently. Can't really expect more consistency at 3pt line. Ray Allen, Danny or Kevin Martin have fairly many off nights too. But compared to those guys, Rush simply has many more 1/1, 1/2, 0/2 nights - which in huge part comes with limited rotation status.
If he played big consistent minutes for a season, many of those nights would probably look differently. But we haven't seen those consistent big minutes yet. And I'm not quite sure I want to see them - as opposed to bringing a high quality guard with the cap space, and developing Paul with some of those wing minutes.
So I vote 'maybe'.

Trophy
11-16-2010, 02:21 PM
He's a better 3 point shooter in the corner, but he can shoot better in the middle when he's at the top of the key.

He's just an inconsistent scorer.

With his 3 point shooting, he can attempt 1 or 2 3 pointers, but then the next night he's attempting over 5. He should shoot more because he's a decent shooter.

He looks a lot more comfortable this season so far.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 02:59 PM
alright, ive heard enough BS comments directed towards me. you losers need to realize i was making a point that Adam Morrison (who i believe won college POY) and his collegiate statistics do not mean damn thing in the nba. the guy posted rush's stats from college.. well here is something else some of you tools may not be aware of.. the 3 pt line is a helluva lot closer to the rim than in the nba.. so why the hell even bother posting his college stats.. its irrelevant. just like what adam morrison who was picked 3rd overall based on college accodalades is now ultimately irrelevant as well cause he has not done much in the nba now has he.

some of you who claim your so damn smart and all knowing yet cannot even read b/t the lines on this simple analogy makes me realize how blindly foolish you are to the fact rush is not a consistently accurate 3 pt shooter.

that was the point i was trying to make.. i didnt think i would need to spell out to some of you like 5 yr olds but apparently just b/c your raised in Indiana doesnt necessarily mean you have a lick of sense when it comes to this game.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 03:02 PM
I'd just stop arguing with this guy. He is completely out of touch with reality.

yea.. i stopped discussing your asinine comments a long time ago as well.. purdue sucks and your understanding of the game isnt much better.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:05 PM
I just don't think you've made one coherent point this entire time, sorry.


Is his % low? No, this is obvious.

Does Brandon Rush not shoot enough threes so it is too small of a sample size to say his % is accurate to his true skill? Clearly not the case IMO, he averaged close to 4 threes attempted per game last year. He attempted the 40th most 3s in the NBA last season. Of that top 40, only 5 guys had higher %'s than him... (Jason Kidd 42.5%, Channing Frye 43.9%, Stephen Curry 43.7%, Mo Williams 42.9%, Anthony Morrow 45.6%).

What does that mean? It means that not only was Rush shooting a good amount of 3s, but that his rate of making them compares very favorably to the rest of the top 40 in the NBA in terms of 3 pointers attempted. Only 5 other guys IN THE ENTIRE NBA, took MORE 3s than Rush AND shot the 3 point shot at a higher percentage. That says more about consistency than anything else could IMO.

So I guess my question is, what exactly are you complaining about from his shooting?

He airballed an open 3 once and you saw it? Give me a break. Every NBA player has at one point or another.

You don't like his follow through or form on his shot? Reggie's shot wasn't exactly a thing of beauty, lots of great shooters have different releases. If it works, it works.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:10 PM
Also, would anyone who answered no to this question, answer "Yes" if we replaced Brandon Rush with Shane Battier?

ballism
11-16-2010, 03:29 PM
Does it really matter enough to get down to 'loser' and 'tool' level? :confused:

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:35 PM
Does it really matter enough to get down to 'loser' and 'tool' level? :confused:

The internet is serious business.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 03:36 PM
I just don't think you've made one coherent point this entire time, sorry.


Is his % low? No, this is obvious.

Does Brandon Rush not shoot enough threes so it is too small of a sample size to say his % is accurate to his true skill? Clearly not the case IMO, he averaged close to 4 threes attempted per game last year. He attempted the 40th most 3s in the NBA last season. Of that top 40, only 5 guys had higher %'s than him... (Jason Kidd 42.5%, Channing Frye 43.9%, Stephen Curry 43.7%, Mo Williams 42.9%, Anthony Morrow 45.6%).

What does that mean? It means that not only was Rush shooting a good amount of 3s, but that his rate of making them compares very favorably to the rest of the top 40 in the NBA in terms of 3 pointers attempted. Only 5 other guys IN THE ENTIRE NBA, took MORE 3s than Rush AND shot the 3 point shot at a higher percentage. That says more about consistency than anything else could IMO.

So I guess my question is, what exactly are you complaining about from his shooting?

He airballed an open 3 once and you saw it? Give me a break. Every NBA player has at one point or another.

You don't like his follow through or form on his shot? Reggie's shot wasn't exactly a thing of beauty, lots of great shooters have different releases. If it works, it works.

oh dear.. jason kidd is on this list, i do not know if your aware but its been known in the league for a long time that kidd was not a good shooter, and perhaps the only weakness of his game, the fact his shooting % is 42 just makes my point more valid, that stats can be at times misleading. kidd may have improved, but the majority of his career he was not known as a 3 pt assassain. this clearly illustrates my point that %'s can be misleading. moreoever, i would guess the majority of kidds shots are taken when he is open off of a double team, which helps greatly his %. if he were the primary focus of the defense like Dirk is, Kidd's % would probably drop to 34 %.

kidd has never been a great shooter and yet he managed a 42 % number.. that should at least give you some clue that the numbers may be misleading.

for all the expectations coming out of college that rush was a great 3 pt shooter, i guess i have not been impressed with his shooting abilities.

PaceBalls
11-16-2010, 03:38 PM
Just to commpare him to some of the great 3pt shooters in the league..

Paul Pierce 09-10 .414 3pt%
Brandon Rush 09-10 .411
Troy Murphy 09-10 .384
Ray Allen 09-10 .363

Brandon was 14th in the league in 3pt FG% with a minimum 50 attempts.

Gamble1
11-16-2010, 03:38 PM
Also, would anyone who answered no to this question, answer "Yes" if we replaced Brandon Rush with Shane Battier?
Sorry still no. His defense is a threat like Rush but when you score less than double digits consistently I just can't bring myself to call that person a threat in any way offensively. The only exception I make to that is guys who win games with a final shot or stop an opposing team 4th quarter run like Robert Horry did.

Rush and Battier are great defensive players but sorry if I don't respect thier 3 point shot that they hit 2 times in a game.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:41 PM
RE: PacersPride

All you are saying is that numbers can be misleading, but you have not made one coherent point as to what it is exactly that make's Brandon's stats misleading!

So far you started off referencing one airball that Rush had, even maintaining at one point that Reggie Miller had NEVER in his entire career airballed an open 3.

Then you also said, you don't like his follow through. Which again I will say, lots of great shooters have had unorthodox releases, even Reggie Miller.

And Kidd has been a very good 3 point shooter since he arrived in Dallas, suggesting perhaps that his problem was never his shot, but rather his shot selection. He does get more open looks in Dallas and hits them at a very reliable rate. Which is the entire point of taking an open 3 pointer no?

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 03:43 PM
alright, ive heard enough BS comments directed towards me. you losers need to realize i was making a point that Adam Morrison (who i believe won college POY) and his collegiate statistics do not mean damn thing in the nba. the guy posted rush's stats from college.. well here is something else some of you tools may not be aware of.. the 3 pt line is a helluva lot closer to the rim than in the nba.. so why the hell even bother posting his college stats.. its irrelevant. just like what adam morrison who was picked 3rd overall based on college accodalades is now ultimately irrelevant as well cause he has not done much in the nba now has he.

some of you who claim your so damn smart and all knowing yet cannot even read b/t the lines on this simple analogy makes me realize how blindly foolish you are to the fact rush is not a consistently accurate 3 pt shooter.

that was the point i was trying to make.. i didnt think i would need to spell out to some of you like 5 yr olds but apparently just b/c your raised in Indiana doesnt necessarily mean you have a lick of sense when it comes to this game.

Brandon Rush is not Adam Morrison. How he has transitioned into the league does not exactly mirror the circumstances of Brandon.

If you don't wanna go that way, then how about this.

Brandon Rush's first two NBA seasons 3pt%:

37.3% rookie
41.1% Sophomore

Reggie Miller's first two NBA seasons 3pt%:

35.5% rookie
40.2% Sophomore


I never claimed to be smart, I just think it's a bad idea to blindly argue against numbers.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:43 PM
Just to commpare him to some of the great 3pt shooters in the league..

Paul Pierce 09-10 .414 3pt%
Brandon Rush 09-10 .411
Troy Murphy 09-10 .384
Ray Allen 09-10 .363

Brandon was 14th in the league in 3pt FG% with a minimum 50 attempts.

Like I said only 5 guys in the entire league shot MORE 3s than Rush AND had a higher 3 point percentage.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 03:44 PM
Rush shoots 62 % from the free throw line.. 42 % from the field. your telling me this guy is an accurate shooter, but can only manage 62% from the free throw line, when no one is gaurding him and the shot is significantly closer?

and i am suppose to believe that Rush is a consistent shooter, yet he can barely make 6 of 10 free throws.

okay.. apparently good shooters in the nba knock down 42 percent from three but make only 60 percent of their free throws.

its evident to me, if rush attempted anywhere near the 3's that granger or dunleavy averages his shooting percentage would drop significantly. if rush were actually more aggressive with his shot instead of simply shooting when he is wide open and stationary then his percentage would drop..

give Granger the open looks that rush gets and Grangers 3 pt percentage would skyrocket to over 50 percent easily.

ive said it before, and im gonna say it again, rush is not a consistently accurate 3 pt shooter regardless of how many yes votes there are on this thread; at least not at this point in his career anyways.

Gamble1
11-16-2010, 03:44 PM
Just to commpare him to some of the great 3pt shooters in the league..

Paul Pierce 09-10 .414 3pt%
Brandon Rush 09-10 .411
Troy Murphy 09-10 .384
Ray Allen 09-10 .363

Brandon was 14th in the league in 3pt FG% with a minimum 50 attempts.
I think Rush is more of a Kapono than a Pierce or Allen.

Hicks
11-16-2010, 03:44 PM
Everyone needs to back off with the personal commentary.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:45 PM
And for all those who said "Teams probably never game planned for Rush's shooting", I have to ask what were they game planning against us then? After Danny and Troy, Brandon's 3 point threat was about the only thing we had on offense last year, especially with the way JOB would usually cripple Roy for the opposing team so they rarely had to worry about him.

Gamble1
11-16-2010, 03:47 PM
And for all those who said "Teams probably never game planned for Rush's shooting", I have to ask what were they game planning against us then? After Danny and Troy, Brandon's 3 point threat was about the only thing we had on offense last year, especially with the way JOB would usually cripple Roy for the opposing team so they rarely had to worry about him.
Maybe thats why we lost so many games... :hmm:

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 03:48 PM
Does it really matter enough to get down to 'loser' and 'tool' level? :confused:

no it doesnt matter, but i believe i am entitled to stating such and such a person is a tool when they infer i have no sense of reality based on my POV regarding Rush.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:50 PM
Rush shoots 62 % from the free throw line.. 42 % from the field. your telling me this guy is an accurate shooter, but can only manage 62% from the free throw line, when no one is gaurding him and the shot is significantly closer?

and i am suppose to believe that Rush is a consistent shooter, yet he can barely make 6 of 10 free throws.

okay.. apparently good shooters in the nba knock down 42 percent from three but make only 60 percent of their free throws.

its evident to me, if rush attempted anywhere near the 3's that granger or dunleavy averages his shooting percentage would drop significantly. if rush were actually more aggressive with his shot instead of simply shooting when he is wide open and stationary then his percentage would drop..

give Granger the open looks that rush gets and Grangers 3 pt percentage would skyrocket to over 50 percent easily.

ive said it before, and im gonna say it again, rush is not a consistently accurate 3 pt shooter regardless of how many yes votes there are on this thread; at least not at this point in his career anyways.

Rush attempts over 3 threes a game on his career, how many would you like to see him attempt to get a reliable sample size?

When answering this, please remember that you were willing to use his 3/10 performance thus far this season as a reliable indicator of his skill.

Also, Dunleavy has only shot more 3s than Rush did last year once in his entire career, granted it was at a blistering 42% rate, but that year is a huge statistical outlier when you look at the rest of Dun's time in the NBA.

Also, while free throws and 3's are both shooting the basketball and usually correlated to each other, it should be noted that they are still in fact two completely different scenarios. Also, I would wager that Rush shot one of the worst %'s in the NBA last season when he came to his mid-range jumper and his time spent around the basket, which are again totally different than what his 3 point shooting ability is and not what this thread is about.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:51 PM
Maybe thats why we lost so many games... :hmm:

I'm just saying to act like teams were probably 100% ok with leaving Rush wide open from 3 might be more of an indictment of the offensive futility that this team showed last year.

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 03:51 PM
Rush shoots 62 % from the free throw line.. 42 % from the field. your telling me this guy is an accurate shooter, but can only manage 62% from the free throw line, when no one is gaurding him and the shot is significantly closer?

and i am suppose to believe that Rush is a consistent shooter, yet he can barely make 6 of 10 free throws.

okay.. apparently good shooters in the nba knock down 42 percent from three but make only 60 percent of their free throws.

Objection. Relevance.


its evident to me, if rush attempted anywhere near the 3's that granger or dunleavy averages his shooting percentage would drop significantly. if rush were actually more aggressive with his shot instead of simply shooting when he is wide open and stationary then his percentage would drop.

Isn't part of being a good shooter knowing not to take poor, contested shots? How or why is this an indictment of his shooting ability?


give Granger the open looks that rush gets and Grangers 3 pt percentage would skyrocket to over 50 percent easily.

I doubt it. With improved shot selection, Danny would probably get to the mid 40%s however. Which is about 6% better than Rush's avg.

Since86
11-16-2010, 03:52 PM
And for all those who said "Teams probably never game planned for Rush's shooting", I have to ask what were they game planning against us then? After Danny and Troy, Brandon's 3 point threat was about the only thing we had on offense last year, especially with the way JOB would usually cripple Roy for the opposing team so they rarely had to worry about him.

Teams game plan for every player, even Josh McRoberts, so even the claim that teams don't game plan for Rush is bunk.

I can give you Rush's offensive scouting report pretty easily. "Don't lose him. Force him to put the ball on the floor, because he will quickly give it up." Done. And while I'm sure they have multiple pages dedicated to him, a lot of it will be charts/graphs of where he likes to shoot, and most of it will be redundant.

Rush is definately a consistent 3pt shooter. But he is no way a consistent shooter overall. He would be if he shot the ball more, but he doesn't so....

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 03:53 PM
Just to commpare him to some of the great 3pt shooters in the league..

Paul Pierce 09-10 .414 3pt%
Brandon Rush 09-10 .411
Troy Murphy 09-10 .384
Ray Allen 09-10 .363

Brandon was 14th in the league in 3pt FG% with a minimum 50 attempts.

and as i stated earlier in this thread.. those of you in love with stats and %'s can have Brush all day long... give me Ray Allen and he is gonna knock down wide open 3's 60% of the time.

if its not clear now.. i dont know how else to illustrate it.. there is a difference b/t shooting the ball on the move, coming off a screen, and with a defender only trailing you for a second, which is what happens to ray allen, and then there is rush, who only shoots when he is open and feet are set.

but i guess that type of logic doesnt apply and clearly rush is a much better shooter than ray allen b/c the %'s are always 100% accurate.

:bs:

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 03:54 PM
Have I once IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD, compared Brandon Rush to Ray Allen and said that I would like to have Rush play shooting guard over Allen?

You are the one that keeps making those ridiculous comparisons. The poll does not say "is Brandon Rush the best shooter in the NBA" or "is Brandon Rush better than Ray Allen"?

How hard is that to comprehend?

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 03:57 PM
and as i stated earlier in this thread.. those of you in love with stats and %'s can have Brush all day long... give me Ray Allen and he is gonna knock down wide open 3's 60% of the time.

if its not clear now.. i dont know how else to illustrate it.. there is a difference b/t shooting the ball on the move, coming off a screen, and with a defender only trailing you for a second, which is what happens to ray allen, and then there is rush, who only shoots when he is open and feet are set.

but i guess that type of logic doesnt apply and clearly rush is a much better shooter than ray allen b/c the %'s are always 100% accurate.

:bs:

Ray Allen camps corners way more than you would like to admit. He's the king of receiving the drive and dish.



Again, I said this much, much earlier in the thread:

All clutch shooters are good shooters, not all good shooters are clutch.

Gamble1
11-16-2010, 04:00 PM
Have I (or anyone else) once IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD, compared Brandon Rush to Ray Allen
Calling him a top 3 point shooter in the league is sort of misleading much like comparing his percentages to Ray Allen. Sure it looks nice but there is no meat and potatoes to that argument. One has a big stick that he whips out a lot and the other just keeps it in his pants..;)

Thats why I compared him to lowly Kapono

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:04 PM
He is one of the top 3 point shooters in the league on a % basis as well as %+attempts. That doesn't compare him directly to Ray Allen at all.

I mean Rush shot nearly 4 3s/game last year. That's not shooting it very often? How many times do you guys want him shooting the 3 to prove he's consistent? Should he be taking 6/game? 7? 8?

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 04:08 PM
RE: PacersPride

All you are saying is that numbers can be misleading, but you have not made one coherent point as to what it is exactly that make's Brandon's stats misleading!

So far you started off referencing one airball that Rush had, even maintaining at one point that Reggie Miller had NEVER in his entire career airballed an open 3.

Then you also said, you don't like his follow through. Which again I will say, lots of great shooters have had unorthodox releases, even Reggie Miller.

And Kidd has been a very good 3 point shooter since he arrived in Dallas, suggesting perhaps that his problem was never his shot, but rather his shot selection. He does get more open looks in Dallas and hits them at a very reliable rate. Which is the entire point of taking an open 3 pointer no?

your correct, i have nvr seen REG jack up an airball from behind the arc when he was WIDE OPEN!! i have stated this more than once. I remember the play vividly last season, someone shot, pacers got the offensive board, they kicked it out to rush who was WIDE OPEN, and im thinking man if this guy cannot hit this shot than im not sure about his shooting.. what happened next, rush jacked up an airball.. a freaking airball when no one was around him. maybe if rush were playing outside with a strong gust of wind that might be understandable, but this is supposedley a great 3 pt shooter and he airballs it from deep when no one is within 5 feet of him..

c'mon man!!

form doesnt matter, i suggested rush improve his follow through in an effort to see him improve; but if a guy can shoot it with unorthodox form like REG.. so be it.

lastly, i have made several points on this and why Rush's stats are misleading. i dont know how to make it any clearer than i have already. rush likely shot a high % due to the fact he is WIDE OPEN when he does shoot it. if Allen or Granger were able to shoot wide open 3's, they would likely be in the 60's when it comes to percentages from behind the arc.

or.... if Rush ever shot the ball on a fast break transition attempt as opposed to a set shot, his %'s would not be as high.

maybe there is a misunderstanding b/t how i view an accurate 3pt shooter and your definition. rush was drafted on his ability to shoot. but good shooters in this league are not going to get wide open looks, they have to be able to move w/o the ball, get around screens, and still hit the shot with a hand in their face.. rush cannot do that and that is the REASON he attempts so few shots!!!

if Rush were a good shooter, he would be bold enough to shoot when his feet are not set, coming off a screen or in transition as Granger does.. but rush is not that good of a shooter and that is the reason his attempts are low. sure.. he can shoot 41 % when he is wide open.. but most players in this league that are SG's when left open should be able to hit the shot. what separates the good/great shooters from the average ones is the the ability to hit contested shots on the move.. something rush will not even attempt.

again, maybe he worked on his shooting over the summer and i will be proven wrong, but based on what i have seen, his brother was a much better shooter. does rush have the ability to become a good shooter, i believe yes, but i have yet to see any reason that i would trust him with a game winner.

Granger, Dunleavy, Posey, and even George appear to all be better shooters at this point in there career, and i might add aj price to the list if i have seen him play more than he has.

ive always been told and firmly believe that good shooting starts at the free throw line. if you are a good shooter than you should average 80%. rush is in the freaking 60's so pls spare me this "is this real life" stuff until rush gets around 75% from the stripe, and actually has the courage to take and make contested 3's.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:08 PM
Also, I have a feeling that if Rush was averaging 20 ppg and this thread was up, even if he was still only shooting 3.7 3s/game, we'd have an entirely different result up there. Which is a shame. Being a good scorer, and being a good shooter are not the same thing in every case. I feel Rush is being punished by some for not being a good scorer or not being aggressive enough.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:09 PM
I can think of 100 different good shooters that don't have to come flying off screens to get their shot off. That is something good SCORERS have to deal with.

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 04:12 PM
I hate the self-quote, but I feel like this needs repeated:


All clutch shooters are good shooters, not all good shooters are clutch.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:12 PM
rush cannot do that and that is the REASON he attempts so few shots!!!



First of all, I find the assertion that Granger would hit 60% of his threes if given the same shots Rush gets to be hilarious. Do you remember how poorly Danny performed in the 3 point contest? He was awful. Why? Danny is a better shooter on the move than he is when he has time to think about it. He is a pull up shooter, Rush is a set shooter. Two different things. And yes, I wouldn't trust Rush with a game winner either, but that has nothing to do with his shooting ability and a great deal to do with his mental fortitude.

Second of all, do you really believe Rush attempts few shots? That's what I want to focus on. He's well above the league average on 3 pointers attempted both over the course of a season and per game.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 04:12 PM
Brandon Rush is not Adam Morrison. How he has transitioned into the league does not exactly mirror the circumstances of Brandon.

If you don't wanna go that way, then how about this.

Brandon Rush's first two NBA seasons 3pt%:

37.3% rookie
41.1% Sophomore

Reggie Miller's first two NBA seasons 3pt%:

35.5% rookie
40.2% Sophomore


I never claimed to be smart, I just think it's a bad idea to blindly argue against numbers.

therefore your assuming rush is going to become the 3 pt assassain that Reggie Miller was? i think your reaching, and again i rely on the eyeball test more so than stats alone.

the %'s may be comparable, but were the number of attempts? also, were defenders slacking off REG and letting him shoot open jumpers so they could double elsewhere. all these things must be taken into consideration.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:19 PM
the %'s may be comparable, but were the number of attempts? also, were defenders slacking off REG and letting him shoot open jumpers so they could double elsewhere. all these things must be taken into consideration.

Reggie was actually in a pretty similar situation to Rush his first two years. Reggie was just ballsier, and more of a scorer. And no, I'm not saying Rush will be Reggie.

Reggie his rookie year shot 172 3s. Rush shot 209.
Reggie his second year shot 224 3s. Rush shot 302.

Now who's shots were more open? I wasn't able to watch, so I can't say for sure, but based off what I know of those two years in Pacers history, I'm going to say they were probably in pretty similar situations. Why? Because the Pacers of the late 80's weren't a whole lot different than the Pacers of today. They had this guy named Chuck Person who much like Danny Granger drew the focus of the defense. So I'm imagining Reggie got a lot of his looks in his first two years in a similar fashion to how Brandon did these past two.

They were wired differently though, and thus why Reggie became a great SCORER, while Brandon will probably only remain a great SHOOTER.

I would need someone who wasn't 1 year old then to confirm my thoughts for me, but I'm really doubting Reggie was the primary focus of the opposing defense his first two years.

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 04:19 PM
therefore your assuming rush is going to become the 3 pt assassain that Reggie Miller was? i think your reaching, and again i rely on the eyeball test more so than stats alone.

the %'s may be comparable, but were the number of attempts? also, were defenders slacking off REG and letting him shoot open jumpers so they could double elsewhere. all these things must be taken into consideration.

You made a comparison to Adam Morrison, I figured I could return the ridiculous comparison favor.

Here are the attempts numbers:

Reggie:
61-172
98-244

Brandon:
78-209
124-302

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 04:24 PM
I hate the self-quote, but I feel like this needs repeated:

of which Rush is neither.. heaven forbid he get fouled in game 7 of the nba finals and have to make two clutch free throws..

maybe he can move back to the three point line and shoot em.. might have a much better chance.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 04:32 PM
First of all, I find the assertion that Granger would hit 60% of his threes if given the same shots Rush gets to be hilarious. Do you remember how poorly Danny performed in the 3 point contest? He was awful. Why? Danny is a better shooter on the move than he is when he has time to think about it. He is a pull up shooter, Rush is a set shooter. Two different things. And yes, I wouldn't trust Rush with a game winner either, but that has nothing to do with his shooting ability and a great deal to do with his mental fortitude.

Second of all, do you really believe Rush attempts few shots? That's what I want to focus on. He's well above the league average on 3 pointers attempted both over the course of a season and per game.

your going into an unrelated subject to this discussion. im stating that the majority of rush's threes are uncontested; good shooters in this league are not given the opportunity to shoot 3 uncontested 3's on average per game.

for example, rush may shoot 70% of his 3's over the course of a season with time to set, and get a good look at the rim; leaving the other 30% to be contested.

if rush were known as a consistent threat from deep like a Danny Granger, Ray Allen, or Reggie Miller.. the number of contested shots would be more like 70% and the open shots with time to set would be 30%.

it does not suprise me at all rush averages 3 threes a game.. because thats really all he does is camp out at the 3 pt line waiting for an open look.

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 04:33 PM
of which Rush is neither.. heaven forbid he get fouled in game 7 of the nba finals and have to make two clutch free throws..

maybe he can move back to the three point line and shoot em.. might have a much better chance.

You're making stuff up now. He shoots 67% from the free throw, and 39% from three. He'd still have a better chance of making free throws at the normal line.

And again, numbers don't lie. If Brandon Rush's 3pt% hovers around 40% for his career, he's a good shooter. That doesn't make him a clutch shooter.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:35 PM
1.) One of your main complaints this whole time has been that he doesn't shoot it enough to know one way or the other.

2.) Rush's man is a lot more willing to leave him because frankly, Rush doesn't have a single other part of his offensive game that at this point in time commands attention. I guarantee you though, that every single scouting report in the NBA on Rush says that he is a 3 point threat. I mean I would be absolutely shocked if this wasn't the case.

And you still haven't addressed the fact that are different kinds of shooters, Danny and Brandon are two entirely different shooters. They don't even attempt the same kinds of shots. Danny looks for 3s in transition, while Brandon looks for 3s in a half court setting. We saw Danny in the 3pt contest in a more half court, feet set environment and he did miserably.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 04:36 PM
Reggie was actually in a pretty similar situation to Rush his first two years. Reggie was just ballsier, and more of a scorer. And no, I'm not saying Rush will be Reggie.

Reggie his rookie year shot 172 3s. Rush shot 209.
Reggie his second year shot 224 3s. Rush shot 302.

Now who's shots were more open? I wasn't able to watch, so I can't say for sure, but based off what I know of those two years in Pacers history, I'm going to say they were probably in pretty similar situations. Why? Because the Pacers of the late 80's weren't a whole lot different than the Pacers of today. They had this guy named Chuck Person who much like Danny Granger drew the focus of the defense. So I'm imagining Reggie got a lot of his looks in his first two years in a similar fashion to how Brandon did these past two.

They were wired differently though, and thus why Reggie became a great SCORER, while Brandon will probably only remain a great SHOOTER.

I would need someone who wasn't 1 year old then to confirm my thoughts for me, but I'm really doubting Reggie was the primary focus of the opposing defense his first two years.

it was also a completely different era in basketball as well at that time.. the 3 pt line was first adopted i believe about the same year REG entered the league.. so what may not seem like alot of 3's at the time by today's standards.. was actually more attempts than you would realize.

either way.. calling rush a great shooter at this point in his career is kinda hard to accept. he may eventually become a good shooter, but he has alot of work ahead if we wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as Reggie.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:41 PM
1.) I've never said he's as a good a shooter as Reggie, as clutch a shooter as Reggie, or that he will ever be Reggie Miller. You brought up Reggie first when you said Reggie had never, in his entire career, airballed an open 3. Count already proved that wrong. All I said, was that Reggie and Rush joined the Pacers in comparable situations, but they are wired 100% differently.

2.) You claim to be such a basketball expert, yet you think the NBA 3 point line was introduced the same year Reggie entered the league? Um, no. The NBA adopted the 3 point line for the 1979-1980 season. So basically 8 years before Reggie ever stepped onto an NBA court.


so what may not seem like alot of 3's at the time by today's standards.. was actually more attempts than you would realize.

I'm not sure what this means...numbers are numbers. Unless NBA 3 point shooting suffered some sort of inflationary event, is a 3 pointer today worth more than a 3 pointer tomorrow. What's the exchange rate on an NBA 3 pointer when traded for a Euro League 3 pointer?

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 04:44 PM
1.) I've never said he's as a good a shooter as Reggie, as clutch a shooter as Reggie, or that he will ever be Reggie Miller. You brought up Reggie first when you said Reggie had never, in his entire career, airballed an open 3. Count already proved that wrong. All I said, was that Reggie and Rush joined the Pacers in comparable situations, but they are wired 100% differently.

2.) You claim to be such a basketball expert, yet you think the NBA 3 point line was introduced the same year Reggie entered the league? Um, no. The NBA adopted the 3 point line for the 1979-1980 season. So basically 8 years before Reggie ever stepped onto an NBA court.



I'm not sure what this means...numbers are numbers. Unless NBA 3 point shooting suffered some sort of inflationary event, is a 3 pointer today worth more than a 3 pointer tomorrow. What's the exchange rate on an NBA 3 pointer when traded for a Euro League 3 pointer?

your correct, i got Bird mixed up with Reggie. the 3 was introduced around when Bird came into the league.

TinManJoshua
11-16-2010, 04:45 PM
I'm not sure what this means...numbers are numbers. Unless NBA 3 point shooting suffered some sort of inflationary event, is a 3 pointer today worth more than a 3 pointer tomorrow.

The Great MidRange Jumper Famine of 2004 saw a dearth of jumpers in front of the three point line. Due to this, three-pointers became a much more profitable commodity.:D

imawhat
11-16-2010, 04:49 PM
Was Reggie a consistent 3 point threat? He matched Rush's percentage 5 times in his 18 season career and didn't match Rush's 3 PT made 7 times.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 04:54 PM
the bottom line here is this. whether a shooter is a stand still or fade away.. or whatever other type of terminology you want to label it.. 90% of the time they can put the ball in the net under any type of circumstances. whether it be from the free throw line.. a 17 foot jump shot, or from behind the arc. Brandon can do only one thing well, and thats shoot stationary from behind the arc.

coming out of college he was touted as a sharpshooter, but i do not see it at this point in his career. if rushs nba livelihood were dependent upon his shooting abilities.. he would last about as long as kareem did. but rush is a solid defender and rebounder which gives him value.

if he ever becomes a sharpshooter, then he could be an nba all-star in this league. your telling me he is a great 3 pt shooter, but yet he backs up a natural SF in dunleavy who is not a very good defender at all.

Rush is not a good shooter imho at this point in his career, and if he starts shooting with more consistency this season i will be the first to say how wrong i was.

Since86
11-16-2010, 04:56 PM
the bottom line here is this. whether a shooter is a stand still or fade away.. or whatever other type of terminology you want to label it.. 90% of the time they can put the ball in the net under any type of circumstances. whether it be from the free throw line.. a 17 foot jump shot, or from behind the arc. Brandon can do only one thing well, and thats shoot stationary from behind the arc.


You need to reread the question, because that's what the question is!!!!!

Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat?

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:57 PM
Dunleavy is infinitely more aggressive than Rush on offense. Thus why he starts. Rush doesn't need to improve his shooting to become a big time player, he needs to be more aggressive and work on finishing around the basket.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 04:58 PM
You need to reread the question, because that's what the question is!!!!!

Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat?

:buddies:

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 05:00 PM
Brandon can do only one thing well, and thats shoot stationary from behind the arc.

:suicide:




Rush is not a good shooter imho at this point in his career

First comment read...then I read this comment...brain hurts...

Ok, seriously, am I being Punked? Ashton is that you?

Or am I Bieber's first victim. God help me if you are Justin Bieber and you have punked me.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 05:02 PM
I'm not sure what this means...numbers are numbers. Unless NBA 3 point shooting suffered some sort of inflationary event, is a 3 pointer today worth more than a 3 pointer tomorrow. What's the exchange rate on an NBA 3 pointer when traded for a Euro League 3 pointer?

all im saying is i do not know if the two are comparable. for one, we have a coach who is obsessed with the 3 pt shot.. if REG were playing on this team his rook year he might have cast up twice as many 3's and hailed O'brien the greatest coach ever.

the offense is predacated on 3 pt shots.. so rush finds some open looks. i doubt Millers attempts were wide open.. he probably took them with a man contesting him the majority of the time.

also, the game is not nearly the half court work the ball inside and if a shot is not available take the three.. today its fast tempo and transition opportunities.. and we have a coach who preaches 3 pt attempts.. for petes sake.. O'brien wanted McBob shooting 500 3's a day over the summer.

this is an example again where numbers are not always the best variable to use as a comparison.

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 05:04 PM
:lol:
the bottom line here is this. whether a shooter is a stand still or fade away.. or whatever other type of terminology you want to label it.. 90% of the time they can put the ball in the net under any type of circumstances. whether it be from the free throw line.. a 17 foot jump shot, or from behind the arc. Brandon can do only one thing well, and thats shoot stationary from behind the arc.

coming out of college he was touted as a sharpshooter, but i do not see it at this point in his career. if rushs nba livelihood were dependent upon his shooting abilities.. he would last about as long as kareem did. but rush is a solid defender and rebounder which gives him value.

if he ever becomes a sharpshooter, then he could be an nba all-star in this league. your telling me he is a great 3 pt shooter, but yet he backs up a natural SF in dunleavy who is not a very good defender at all.

Rush is not a good shooter imho at this point in his career, and if he starts shooting with more consistency this season i will be the first to say how wrong i was.

ur post make me think :wtf2: is he thinking and they make me :lol:

Trophy
11-16-2010, 05:05 PM
Brandon's 3 point shooting has always been a question mark.

He can be wide open and still miss, but he can make them in the corner with a hand in his face.

He's more consistent when he shoots off the dribble at the top of the key. That's something he worked on.

He's a fun player to watch when he's having a good game.

We'll see what he does tonight.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 05:07 PM
i doubt Millers attempts were wide open.. he probably took them with a man contesting him the majority of the time.



Why is every 3 Brandon Rush has taken wide open, and every 3 when Reggie Miller was a rookie and his second year contested? I already pointed out they were in similar situations. And I don't think the PAcers were known for slowing down the pace in the late 80's under Ramsay and Versace (yuck), but someone else would have to confirm this.

And again, can we please stop discussing Reggie Miller? You brought him up first, I'm begging you to take him out of the conversation now, he really has nothing to do with this.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 05:07 PM
:suicide:




First comment read...then I read this comment...brain hurts...

Ok, seriously, am I being Punked? Ashton is that you?

Or am I Bieber's first victim. God help me if you are Justin Bieber and you have punked me.

have you ever played this game trader joe? i know guys who can shoot, and no matter what you do not leave them, cause they can shoot on the run, off of a screen and so on.. then there are guys who can do only one thing well, and thats stand at the 3 pt line and knock down a couple 3's from time to time.

BIG DIFFERENCE. i know your trying to save face or win an argument.. but i think if you played this game you might actually understand the difference b/t the two here.

if you do say you played i kinda have a hard time believing it..

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 05:10 PM
Brandon's 3 point shooting has always been a question mark.



THANK YOU TROPHY!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

:dance::dance::dance:

hence the definition of inconsistent shooter.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 05:11 PM
Brandon's 3 point shooting has always been a question mark.



I honestly don't know how you can say that with a straight face.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 05:11 PM
have you ever played this game trader joe?

Yes, I've played basketball before, are you freaking kidding me?

However, I'm also not self absorbed enough to think that just because I've played the game my entire life, I know everything about it, even if evidence suggests that I am completely wrong.


i know guys who can shoot, and no matter what you do not leave them, cause they can shoot on the run, off of a screen and so on.. then there are guys who can do only one thing well, and thats stand at the 3 pt line and knock down a couple 3's from time to time.

Good for you.


BIG DIFFERENCE. i know your trying to save face or win an argument..
It's my opinion that I've already won. I'm not sure why I would have to save face, I have backed up every single thing I've said, all you say is that you've played the game. Awesome, I'm glad for you.


if you do say you played i kinda have a hard time believing it..

Awesome, good for you. You've caught me. As we all know there is only one school of thought when it comes to basketball, PacersPride's, and if you don't subscribe to it, you clearly have never played the game before! How did you catch on to my devious plot?

What is this game of bass-kett-bawl? Are you trying to score many victories so that you can win the prize? Please explain the finer points to me, can you eat the ball after the game as it is orange like the fruit? Does everyone share in the "Free Throws"? Or are they charged for each trip to the line? Does a "Point Guard" literally point to everyone? And is the "Small Forward" in fact small?

EDIT: Also, are you the same guy that thought the NBA 3 point line was introduced in the late 80's and got Reggie Miller confused with Larry Bird? And the same guy that referenced JR Rider of the Denver Nuggets? How could someone who has played the game their entire lives (since this is the way we decide who is right and wrong now) make such simple mistakes?

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 05:19 PM
Brandon's 3 point shooting has always been a question mark.

He can be wide open and still miss, but he can make them in the corner with a hand in his face.

He's more consistent when he shoots off the dribble at the top of the key. That's something he worked on.

He's a fun player to watch when he's having a good game.

We'll see what he does tonight.

everyone misses some when they are open or they should be shooting 100%.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 05:21 PM
Yes, I've played basketball before, are you freaking kidding me?

However, I'm also not self absorbed enough to think that just because I've played the game my entire life, I know everything about it, even if evidence suggests that I am completely wrong.

"self-absorbed" because im trying to illustrate the difference between the two statements you mocked?? thats rich trader joe... keep telling yourself whatever it is that helps you sleep at night.

all of a sudden im now self absorbed b/c i want to illustrate the meaning b/t the contrasting statments made using a basketball analogy.?

Brandon can do only one thing well, and thats shoot stationary from behind the arc.

again, i know guys who stand behind the 3 pt line, and on occassion if you leave them open yes they will knock it down, but truth be told they are not good shooters and very inconsistent.

Rush is not a good shooter imho at this point in his career

but then there are players who can shoot whether they are open, curling off of a screen, on the dribble, fading, with a hand in their face, pulling up in transition, and from anywhere on the floor 25 ft in.

rush has one aspect of that down.. now bump this thread when he learns how to shoot consistently in the areas above that i just mentioned.

are you able to distinguish now between the two statements or is this going to turn into another hahaha response.

:eek:

Trophy
11-16-2010, 05:23 PM
everyone misses some when they are open or they should be shooting 100%.

Yeah, but he typically misses them if he's in front of the basket (from behind the arc).

He looks better from the corner either if he open or being guarded.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 05:25 PM
"self-absorbed" because im trying to illustrate the difference between the two statements you mocked?? thats rich trader joe... keep telling yourself whatever it is that helps you sleep at night.

(Redacted for brevity by Trader Joe)

are you able to distinguish now between the two statements or is this going to turn into another hahaha response.

:eek:

"Hey, have you played basketball before? And if you say you have I'm not going to believe you."

Wasn't that your last argument?

You expect me to give that sort of a question a serious answer? What would you like me to do scan in all the proof I have that I have played basketball competitively?

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 05:29 PM
:picardriker:
"self-absorbed" because im trying to illustrate the difference between the two statements you mocked?? thats rich trader joe... keep telling yourself whatever it is that helps you sleep at night.

all of a sudden im now self absorbed b/c i want to illustrate the meaning b/t the contrasting statments made using a basketball analogy.?

Brandon can do only one thing well, and thats shoot stationary from behind the arc.

again, i know guys who stand behind the 3 pt line, and on occassion if you leave them open yes they will knock it down, but truth be told they are not good shooters and very inconsistent.

Rush is not a good shooter imho at this point in his career

but then there are players who can shoot whether they are open, curling off of a screen, on the dribble, fading, with a hand in their face, pulling up in transition, and from anywhere on the floor 25 ft in.

rush has one aspect of that down.. now bump this thread when he learns how to shoot consistently in the areas above that i just mentioned.

are you able to distinguish now between the two statements or is this going to turn into another hahaha response.

:eek:

BillS
11-16-2010, 05:30 PM
:lurk:

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 05:32 PM
And with that, I really am done. I've tried to entertain your opinion with well thought out and backed up responses, by referencing multiple statistical data from multiple periods in NBA history, and all I keep getting thrown back in my face is "Have you ever played basketball before? Even if you say you have played it I don't believe you."

I'm through with this conversation, I think anyone who reads this thread would see which side provided more evidence and backing to their opinion, and who was just pulling things out of thin air.

Please continue to hold whatever opinion makes you happy, I honestly don't care anymore. I've wasted too much of my time formulating a well thought out argument to someone who is clearly not interested in having a well thought out debate.

To answer your question, I have played and coached basketball since the age of 5. I have coached at both the junior high and high school levels, and I am done with this conversation. Feel free to call me a "tool" or a "loser" or anything else that pops into your mind.

Enjoy your day.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 05:33 PM
It's my opinion that I've already won.

Awesome, good for you. You've caught me. As we all know there is only one school of thought when it comes to basketball, PacersPride's


yes i forgot, %'s are the end all be all of any sports related discussion. apparently i should subscribe to that theory.. where if a guy is a 42 % shooter from the 3 pt line then he is obviously a consistent 3 ball threat night in and night out.

however, since Granger and Dunleavy are not 40% shooters, defenses should adjust their gameplan to focus on Rush, and not those two because the %'s are the only thing that ever matters when determining who the good shooters are right??

completely rediculous.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 05:35 PM
however, since Granger and Dunleavy are not 40% shooters, defenses should adjust their gameplan to focus on Rush, and not those two because the %'s are the only thing that ever matters when determining who the good shooters are right??



Again, I've never said this or anything remotely like this anywhere in this thread, but you can continue to put words in my mouth. I am completely out of energy to deal with this any longer.

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 05:35 PM
yes i forgot, %'s are the end all be all of any sports related discussion. apparently i should subscribe to that theory.. where if a guy is a 42 % shooter from the 3 pt line then he is obviously a consistent 3 ball threat night in and night out.

however, since Granger and Dunleavy are not 40% shooters, defenses should adjust their gameplan to focus on Rush, and not those two because the %'s are the only thing that ever matters when determining who the good shooters are right??

completely rediculous.

when Djones is in the game they sag off because he isnt a 3pt theat. You cant do that with B Rush. im sry u are wrong you should go to basketball 101 class to learn what a 3pt theat is.

Brohan Cruyff
11-16-2010, 05:40 PM
I honestly can't believe that people still exist who, even in the face of overwhelming statistical and anecdotal evidence, are completely unwilling to entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, their eyes and biases have misled them into believing something that just isn't true.

I'm changing my vote to "Is this real life?"

Trophy
11-16-2010, 05:40 PM
when Djones is in the game they sag off because he isnta 3pt theat. You cant do that with B Rush. im sry u are wrong you should go to basketball 101 class to learn what a 3pt theat is.

Yeah and you can't leave Brandon open because he can make you pay.

He does typically make it when he's open no matter what spot it's in behind the arc.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 05:41 PM
Feel free to call me a "tool" or a "loser" or anything else that pops into your mind.

Enjoy your day.

what good will it do, apparently i have "no sense of reality" b/c i believe rush to be an inconsistent shooter.

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 05:43 PM
what good will it do, apparently i have "no sense of reality" b/c i believe rush to be an inconsistent shooter.

6 yrs of near 40% from 3 pt range makes u pretty consistent from 3pt range in most peoples book just ask some b ball scouts.

Brohan Cruyff
11-16-2010, 05:43 PM
yes i forgot, %'s are the end all be all of any sports related discussion.

For real? He cited several other things to back that up, including shots attempted and made. The large sample size available lends a lot of credence to his rate statistics. I mean...that's how statistics work.

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 05:45 PM
For real? He cited several other things to back that up, including shots attempted and made. The large sample size available lends a lot of credence to his rate statistics. I mean...that's how statistics work.

also Brandon is one of the most efficent players we have. Which can be backed up with stat i dont get pacerprides agrument.

Brohan Cruyff
11-16-2010, 05:48 PM
what good will it do, apparently i have "no sense of reality" b/c i believe rush to be an inconsistent shooter.

No, I think that was said because you refuse to acknowledge a pretty large body of evidence that's been presented to refute your case, and instead repeated the same claims over and over again.

Trophy
11-16-2010, 05:50 PM
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

This is a good tool to use to see Brandon's hotspots from previous seasons.

Gamble1
11-16-2010, 05:51 PM
I mean Rush shot nearly 4 3s/game last year. That's not shooting it very often?

Let me think about this.....HE IS TAKING 8.5 SHOTS A GAME AND HE WAS A STARTER....

IF he isn't going to shoot two's in the game then I want my sg shooting 3's. IF he is our long term sg then I think he has to take more shots and of those shots he should take the ones that he feels most comfortable taking.

You want a good example then look at Raja Bell when he was in Phoenix. He took 400 some 3's a year and made a good percentage of them. IF that is what Rush has to offer then I gladly take it. I honestly wish he was more versatile but we have had success with one dimensional players before.

On a side note I just looked this up. Quis in his last year here took almost as many shots in 54 games as did Brandon in 82. :cry:

Hey if your a one dimensional NBA player than you had better be exploiting that part of your game a whole lot more than Brandon is...JMO

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 05:53 PM
also Brandon is one of the most efficent players we have. Which can be backed up with stat i dont get pacerprides agrument.

I do not have an argument, my original statement was Rush needs to work on his follow through, it was just a harmless comment, nothing more. When pressed about it, i stated i do not believe rush is a consistent 3 pt shooter, others have went on and on about it, and i have stated that i do not believe the stats/%'s are the only factor that should be considered.

maybe i should have simply said that Brandon Rush overall is an average shooter in general.. then maybe this discussion would not have gone so far. i could then point to his 62 % free throw and 42 fg % as to why i think Rush is not a very good shooter, and that I tend to believe his brother Kareem was and is the better shooter b/t the two.

at this point, i dont care, and im sure that over the course of the season those who watch rush play will see the point that i originally tried to make. hopefully i am proved wrong and rush worked on his shooting over the summer.

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 05:56 PM
No, I think that was said because you refuse to acknowledge a pretty large body of evidence that's been presented to refute your case, and instead repeated the same claims over and over again.

wtf?? pls summarize his large body of evidence which is based purely on stats and %'s which again i have stated is only one sample of data that can be looked at. the other is actual play and that is what im basing my opinion on.

im done with this for now.

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 05:59 PM
I do not have an argument, my original statement was Rush needs to work on his follow through, it was just a harmless comment, nothing more. When pressed about it, i stated i do not believe rush is a consistent 3 pt shooter, others have went on and on about it, and i have stated that i do not believe the stats/%'s are the only factor that should be considered.

maybe i should have simply said that Brandon Rush overall is an average shooter in general.. then maybe this discussion would not have gone so far. i could then point to his 62 % free throw and 42 fg % as to why i think Rush is not a very good shooter, and that I tend to believe his brother Kareem was and is the better shooter b/t the two.

at this point, i dont care, and im sure that over the course of the season those who watch rush play will see the point that i originally tried to make. hopefully i am proved wrong and rush worked on his shooting over the summer.

LOL his follow thur lol many great shooters dont follow thur this is just LOL. Reggie Miller didnt even have great form but that didnt matter it went in. i cant belive that u would say he is a bad shooter because he doesnt follow thur. LOL

PacersPride
11-16-2010, 06:02 PM
LOL his follow thur lol many great shooters dont follow thur this is just LOL. Reggie Miller didnt even have great form but that didnt matter it went in. i cant belive that u would say he is a bad shooter because he doesnt follow thur. LOL

:confused:

i didnt say that, go back and reread the original comment, i said he needs better follow through so he can improve his jump shooting. it was a suggestion.

i dont give a damn if the guy shoots like joakim noah if the ball goes through the hoop.

stop twisting my words into what you want them to be and read the actual comments i made to begin with.

peace

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 06:09 PM
:confused:

i didnt say that, go back and reread the original comment, i said he needs better follow through so he can improve his jump shooting. it was a suggestion.

i dont give a damn if the guy shoots like joakim noah if the ball goes through the hoop.

stop twisting my words into what you want them to be and read the actual comments i made to begin with.

peace

how did i twist ur words u said he is bad because his follow thur. I didnt make that up. it is the bold section i highlighted last post.

gummy
11-16-2010, 06:47 PM
Please read my "kill me. kill me now," vote as an endorsement of "is this real life?" as well.

:hmm:

pacer4ever
11-21-2010, 02:21 AM
pacer pride Brandon Rush is shooting 44% from three.

Dunleavy 36%


so ya Brandon isnt a good 3 pt shooter

PacersPride
11-21-2010, 02:53 AM
pacer pride Brandon Rush is shooting 44% from three.

Dunleavy 36%


so ya Brandon isnt a good 3 pt shooter

im pretty much over this. i want to see rush do well and not root against him. last season and his career here he has been a very inconsistent offensive player. he does shoot the 3 well for someone who only shoots 60 some percent from the free throw line.

he has had a couple good offensive games, hopefully he continues cause the pacers can really use his offense at the sg position.

* the poll is not completely lopsided. maybe i misspoke, but i just hope to see rush bring it offensively every night.

gummy
11-21-2010, 03:28 AM
he does shoot the 3 well for someone who only shoots 60 some percent from the free throw line.



Much improved this season so far - 87.5%.

Anthem
11-21-2010, 04:12 AM
* the poll is not completely lopsided.
Not as lopsided as I expected.

croz24, DaveP63, diamonddave00, Gamble1, I Love P, Major Cold, nerveghost, odeez, pacers74, Psyren, RayRay, speakout4, tora tora, vnzla81... you guys wanna getin on this?

xBulletproof
11-21-2010, 04:25 AM
I think it's not as lopsided because the wording doesn't represent what started the debate in the first place. PacersPride didn't say he wasn't consistent at first, he just said he wasn't a good shooter from 3, at all. Even saying that his 3 point shooting percentage was misleading, no idea how that's possible, but hey.

pacer4ever
11-21-2010, 04:28 AM
I think it's not as lopsided because the wording doesn't represent what started the debate in the first place. PacersPride didn't say he wasn't consistent at first, he just said he wasn't a good shooter from 3, at all. Even saying that his 3 point shooting percentage was misleading, no idea how that's possible, but hey.

we should do a new poll is shooting %'s misleading

Trader Joe
11-21-2010, 04:28 AM
I had a tough time thinking how to word the question, because frankly, I find the question to be ridiculous to even have to answer.

pacer4ever
11-21-2010, 04:29 AM
I had a tough time thinking how to word the question, because frankly, I find the question to be ridiculous to even have to answer.

i wuld have put "is Brandon a good 3 pt shooter "

Trader Joe
11-21-2010, 04:31 AM
I should have replaced "threat" with "shooter" I think that would have changed the results pretty significantly.

pacer4ever
11-21-2010, 04:41 AM
I should have replaced "threat" with "shooter" I think that would have changed the results pretty significantly.

it wouldnt have changed pacer pride because Rush doesnt follow thur lol. The free throw he missed 2nite he followed thur on lol. I think he does follow thur but his shot is unque u can barley tell on 3s.

Infinite MAN_force
11-21-2010, 03:25 PM
This is a useful thread. It has been very useful in helping me update my ignore list.

PacersPride
11-22-2010, 12:28 PM
I should have replaced "threat" with "shooter" I think that would have changed the results pretty significantly.

lets do a new poll and make it "is rush a consistent shooter" how do you feel the results would be then?

its a long season, rush has good games and then goes back to his normal inconsistent ways.

as ive said, this argument/debate caught me off gaurd, maybe i did not clarify as well as i should have and i can accept that.

is rush a consistent shooter? is he a consistent offensive player? regardless of what was originally said, the above two questions are still very valid to any pacers fan.

TinManJoshua
11-22-2010, 12:34 PM
its a long season, rush has bad games and then goes back to his normal consistent three-point shooting.

is rush a consistent shooter? is he a consistent offensive player? regardless of what was originally said, the above two questions are still very valid to any pacers fan.

FYP

Trader Joe
11-22-2010, 12:42 PM
Is Rush a consistent offensive player? Nope.

Is Rush a consistent 3 point shooter? Yes.

PacersPride
11-22-2010, 12:50 PM
Is Rush a consistent offensive player? Nope.

Is Rush a consistent 3 point shooter? Yes.

still cant figure it out can you. want to continue to harp on the same item to "win your argument." good for you, would you like a cookie, how bout a trophy... or post of the year or something on PD!!

as ive now humbled myself on my position, and said i misspoke and should have just stated rush is not a consistent shooter, i dont think i would have been crucified.

perhaps the reason i only referred to rush as a 3 pt shooter is b/c primarily thats all rush has done the past two seasons. rarely has he shown aggressiveness and taken it to the rim, and rarely does he shoot inside the arc. so in essense, i misspoke and only criticized his 3 pt shooting... b/c overall that has been the only position on the court he has any type of success.

hopefully my point is now clear. rush is an above average 3 pt shooter, is he a consistent shooter as in fg accuracy overall, up to this point the answer is NO.

do i want to see rush become a better shooter overall, and become more agressive. YES, thats why we drafted him overall at 12.

PacersPride
07-27-2012, 09:52 PM
thanks for bringing this up p4e. brandon rush is not a consistent 3 pt threat. sorry, still not buying it. give me kyle korver over rush anyday.

i have a hard time taking you seriously if you still beleiver rush is anywhere near a consistent 3pt threat such as korver or even a mike miller type of player. rush is not a hired gun and i doubt he ever will be.

xBulletproof
07-27-2012, 10:14 PM
Aw crap. This thread again?

You know a thread was silly when 2 years later you see just the title and immediately do a face palm.

vnzla81
07-27-2012, 10:19 PM
I guess we ran out of "Legend" thank you threads....

Steagles
07-27-2012, 10:22 PM
No. Never was. Never will be. All you can count on him being is a stoner.


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

pacer4ever
07-27-2012, 10:31 PM
thanks for bringing this up p4e. brandon rush is not a consistent 3 pt threat. sorry, still not buying it. give me kyle korver over rush anyday.

i have a hard time taking you seriously if you still beleiver rush is anywhere near a consistent 3pt threat such as korver or even a mike miller type of player. rush is not a hired gun and i doubt he ever will be.


still cant figure it out can you. want to continue to harp on the same item to "win your argument." good for you, would you like a cookie, how bout a trophy... or post of the year or something on PD!!

as ive now humbled myself on my position, and said i misspoke and should have just stated rush is not a consistent shooter, i dont think i would have been crucified.

perhaps the reason i only referred to rush as a 3 pt shooter is b/c primarily thats all rush has done the past two seasons. rarely has he shown aggressiveness and taken it to the rim, and rarely does he shoot inside the arc. so in essense, i misspoke and only criticized his 3 pt shooting... b/c overall that has been the only position on the court he has any type of success.

hopefully my point is now clear. rush is an above average 3 pt shooter, is he a consistent shooter as in fg accuracy overall, up to this point the answer is NO.

do i want to see rush become a better shooter overall, and become more agressive. YES, thats why we drafted him overall at 12.

Contradict yourself much??

ilive4sports
07-27-2012, 10:45 PM
Guess who was number 6 in 3P% last season? Brandon rush at 45.2% That was .1% behind Mike Miller and Ray Allen. It was also 1.7% better than Kyle Korver.

You just look silly now.

Ozwalt72
07-27-2012, 10:57 PM
This was and still is the most ridiculous (Edit: Or is it Not So Redickulous?) basketball related thread I've ever seen.

Of course he's not consistent. He followed up two 41% shooting years with a 45% year. That's a 4% change!!!!1!

Ozwalt72
07-27-2012, 11:16 PM
If you had asked me during the offseason to list possible thread titles I might create this season from 1 to 1000 this would be number 998...right behind no. 997 "Danny Granger moves to Iraq to fight for the Jihad" and right in front of no. 999 "Jeff Foster: Great point guard or greatEST point guard" and no. 1000 "100 Reasons We Should Trade for Stephen Jackson and re-sign Jamaal Tinsley and then allow guns in the locker room, also Fingers should be our new head coach"

I'm glad this thread came back up though because this post was and remains hilarious. Jeff Foster: Greatest Point Guard

Eleazar
07-27-2012, 11:50 PM
Is there a reason this thread came back?

PacersPride
07-28-2012, 12:17 AM
Guess who was number 6 in 3P% last season? Brandon rush at 45.2% That was .1% behind Mike Miller and Ray Allen. It was also 1.7% better than Kyle Korver.

You just look silly now.

unbelievable. i figured rush woulda demonstrated that he s*cked b****. regardless, rush never has or will duplicate what korver did in that bulls/pacers playoff series last season.

every fn time pacers made any sort of run korver would kill all momentum with a 3.. got to the point where i was shocked if the guy even missed. i would almost bet my left &#$ korver jacked up50 more 3's than rush did last season.

i dont give 2 ***** .. in no way shape or form is rush even in the same stratosphere as kyle korver at knocking down 3's. korver is cold blooded.

rush sucks thats just all there is to it.

vnzla81
07-28-2012, 12:22 AM
This was and still is the most ridiculous (Edit: Or is it Not So Redickulous?) basketball related thread I've ever seen.

This one and the "DC is better than Westbrook" thread are pretty close I request a poll.

PacersPride
07-28-2012, 12:25 AM
Is there a reason this thread came back?

its the offseason and i wanted to prove my point. brandon rush swallows monkey *****.

steve kerr, now there was a consistent 3 pt threat. a true marksman from deep.

vnzla81
07-28-2012, 12:27 AM
unbelievable. i figured rush woulda demonstrated that he s*cked b****. regardless, rush never has or will duplicate what korver did in that bulls/pacers playoff series last season.

every fn time pacers made any sort of run korver would kill all momentum with a 3.. got to the point where i was shocked if the guy even missed. i would almost bet my left &#$ korver jacked up50 more 3's than rush did last season.

i dont give 2 ***** .. in no way shape or form is rush even in the same stratosphere as kyle korver at knocking down 3's. korver is cold blooded.

rush sucks thats just all there is to it.

http://cdn.windows8update.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CocaineRickJames.jpg

PacersPride
07-28-2012, 12:28 AM
This one and the "DC is better than Westbrook" thread are pretty close I request a poll.

can ryan anderson is an equal player to david west poll option be added.

**** *.

PacersPride
07-28-2012, 12:31 AM
http://cdn.windows8update.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CocaineRickJames.jpg

from the ******* dipshit who stated ryan anderson is an equal player to west. how about that LEGEND will win EOY thread ... guess you can take your fool lost his mind option and stick right where the sun dont shine douchebag.

ilive4sports
07-28-2012, 12:47 AM
kyle korver hitting threes in the playoffs has nothing to do with Brandon Rush being a consistent 3 point threat or not. Fact is, the past three seasons, Brandon Rush has been in the top 15 in the entire league in 3P%. If that isn't a consistent 3 point threat, then I don't ****ing know what the definition of consistent 3 point threat is.

vnzla81
07-28-2012, 12:51 AM
from the ******* dipshit who stated ryan anderson is an equal player to west. how about that LEGEND will win EOY thread ... guess you can take your fool lost his mind option and stick right where the sun dont shine douchebag.

Wow :spitout:

gummy
07-28-2012, 01:35 AM
Wow. This is even more ridiculous than it was 2 yrs ago. And you bumped it because you believe you've been vindicated by events in the intervening years!? I say again - wow.

Eleazar
07-28-2012, 02:19 AM
its the offseason and i wanted to prove my point. brandon rush swallows monkey *****.

steve kerr, now there was a consistent 3 pt threat. a true marksman from deep.

How has your point been proven?

Statistically Rush and Korver are virtually identical, hell over the course of their careers their three point percentage is identical. Just because Korver had one great series against us doesn't mean he is suddenly a better option than Rush. Croshere had a great series once, and he never matched it again. I would be all for bring in Korver to be our 3pt specialist, but honestly I would rather have Rush back because not only would he be a 3pt specialist, he is also a better defender than PG.



P.S. If you are wondering what Korver's shooting statistics where at the end of the playoffs the season we played them: Korver FG% .388 3PT% .423 and Rush FG% .462 3PT% .750. Yeah Korver took 3 times as many shots per game, but that is the failure of the coach there.

Cactus Jax
07-28-2012, 03:31 AM
:mjpopcorn:

Heisenberg
07-28-2012, 05:47 AM
Brandon Rush is a pretty good basketball player that is the exact kind of off the bench wing this team could use.

And now I've made the most obvious statement in the history of basketball.

PacerDude
07-28-2012, 07:41 AM
If I could sort of quote a fairly consistent 3PT guy from our past: "It's not how many you make, it's when you make them."

Making a few 3's in garbage time is a lot different than making 1 at the end of a close game when defense is actually being played. When Rush makes one that matters, it'll be his 1st.

Heisenberg
07-28-2012, 08:23 AM
The myopia here is pretty sad

BlueNGold
07-28-2012, 08:33 AM
He can't be because everyone knows he will just disappear and never really hurt you by being aggressive. Just let him float out there and shut down the other 4 guys and you will win.

BobbyMac
07-28-2012, 09:31 AM
Rush was never consistent at anything!

beast23
07-28-2012, 09:59 AM
Brandon Rush is a pretty good basketball player that is the exact kind of off the bench wing this team could use.

And now I've made the most obvious statement in the history of basketball.

I'm not so sure that Rush is someone that I would want as a regular backup off my bench. He could be if he has learned to "engage". But has he?

I would say that he could be used in the role of an extra 3-point specialist when one is needed. But is that a need? Or is that role already covered by one or more primary backups? For that matter, does Pietrus not provide more than Rush without the detriment of the historical baggage already created with the team?

spazzxb
07-28-2012, 11:34 AM
I didn't think people cared this much about Rush when he was here. Blows my mind that this has been the top subject of conversation for a day now. At least we have the olympics because people must be really bored around here. Please , for the love of god,noone start a BR vs LS thread.

BRushWithDeath
07-28-2012, 12:57 PM
Mind. Blown.

Jrod Jones
07-28-2012, 01:04 PM
We really are desperate for things to talk about aren't we?

OlBlu
07-28-2012, 01:28 PM
Brandon Rush is a pretty good basketball player that is the exact kind of off the bench wing this team could use.

And now I've made the most obvious statement in the history of basketball.

I was sorry when he left the team. They could have used his defense and outside shooting on that second team. It would have opened things up a bit. I always thought the fans were a little rough on him in Indy.......:cool:

idioteque
07-28-2012, 01:28 PM
People on both sides of the argument need to get over something.

For those who hate Rush, they need to get over the fact that Rush is a very good three point shooter and a good defender. I know this is kind of a trite statement, but he's one of those guys who would really shine if he was on a team like Miami, LA, or OKC that has legitimate superstars. If he gets traded to the right team, his career trajectory will be something like Robert Horry. Otherwise, he will bounce around the league and be see as Kyle Korver with defense. But he's one of those guys that can really help a superstar team, he has exactly the right skillset for that. He's a great shooter (and so many NBA players suck at shooting now) and he can guard the other team's number one back court option.

For those who love Rush, they need to get over the fact that while it would be great to have him back in Indiana, he will never come back for PR reasons, fair or not. And Indy is far from the best place for him to be playing right now anyway.

OlBlu
07-28-2012, 01:32 PM
People on both sides of the argument need to get over something.

For those who hate Rush, they need to get over the fact that Rush is a very good three point shooter and a good defender. I know this is kind of a trite statement, but he's one of those guys who would really shine if he was on a team like Miami, LA, or OKC that has legitimate superstars. If he gets traded to the right team, his career trajectory will be something like Robert Horry. Otherwise, he will bounce around the league and be see as Kyle Korver with defense. But he's one of those guys that can really help a superstar team, he has exactly the right skillset for that. He's a great shooter (and so many NBA players suck at shooting now) and he can guard the other team's number one back court option.

For those who love Rush, they need to get over the fact that while it would be great to have him back in Indiana, he will never come back for PR reasons, fair or not. And Indy is far from the best place for him to be playing right now anyway.

Good post and right on the mark....:cool:

Pacer Fan
07-28-2012, 01:38 PM
Rush is a very good player on both sides of the ball and a excellent 3 pt. shooter without question.

The problem with Rush as we all know (well, we should know anyways) is his fantastic ability to be a Magician. He has the best disappearing acts of all magicians in the world. He just needs to leave his disappearing acts off the basketball court.

Doddage
07-28-2012, 02:12 PM
http://ryanknapper.campknapper.net/images/Cliche/Aw%20Jeez.jpg

PacersPride
07-28-2012, 02:22 PM
Rush is a very good player on both sides of the ball and a excellent 3 pt. shooter without question.

The problem with Rush as we all know (well, we should know anyways) is his fantastic ability to be a Magician. He has the best disappearing acts of all magicians in the world. He just needs to leave his disappearing acts off the basketball court.

I take issue with this post, not in a disrespectful manner, but the fact that you say he is a very good player and 3 pt shooter, then continue by saying he dissappears.. would that not be the very definition of CONSISTENT.

The question asks if Rush is a consistent three pt shooter, not what his 3pt% is. I bumped the thread hoping with Rush no longer a member of the Pacers many of you would access Rush with more accurate vision but it appears I am mistaken.

I have not seen Rush play for awhile, but he never struck me as a cold blooded knock down shooter. in fact, every time he shot i expected him to miss not make. which is the poiint i was trying to make regarding kyle korver, when that guy shoots i expect him to make it. in fact i got to the point where i would just cringe when Brandon would shoot, very rarely did i have any sort of confidence in him shooting, even if it were from 3 pt territory.

the guy has talent, but it does not transcend to the court for whatever reason. bottom line is i think there is more than simply looking at a players fg or 3pt % in determining if they are consistent or not. im sorry to all the Rush supporters in this thread but Rush never inspired any confidence in his ability to shoot and i believe he feels the same which is likely the reason he does not shoot it as often as his % would dictate.

btw, rush is a FA right now i believe and im sure he will land somewhere, but that should measure just how valuable this guy is at his craft, whereas Korver was immediately signed... so i ask why is that if korver the inferior defensive player has the same 3pt% to rush then why is Korver already under contract and Rush is not. its because he sucks point blank.. there is a reasons why Bird was unable to trade this guy for a happy meal and was thrilled to land LOU for the guy.

finally, i think the guy who said "knocking down clutch shots when it matters most" (paraphrasing) is a good measuring stick of consistency was right on the mark. how often when it matterd would Rush consistently knock down a 3, it seemed very rare if ever.

on paper rush looks like a 3 pt threat, but its simply not true. how many of you would feel confident with brandon rush taking a 3 at the end of the game.. alas a byron scott 3 to win a plyoff series. i bet many of you would change your yes to a no if that were the poll question. if so, then how in the heck can this guy be considered consistent.

there is the exception that horry is, where he rises when it matters most.. but that is not even the point. the point is, rush inspires zero confidence when a three pt shot would be needed most, and that my pacers digest friends is the truest definistion of consistent three point threat.

I am not convinced Rush is a consistent 3 pt shooter, in fact i would prefer Dunleavy taking a game winnng 3 before i would hope a play would be drawn up for rush. %'s are only one small factor in the equation, i think what matters most is can Rush be counted upon to consistently hit 3's in crunch time or the playoffs, and the answer is NO.

Pacer Fan
07-28-2012, 02:29 PM
I take issue with this post, not in a disrespectful manner, but the fact that you say he is a very good player and 3 pt shooter, then continue by saying he dissappears.. would that not be the very definition of CONSISTENT.

No disrespect back to ya, but what I typed is the very definition of inconsistent not consistent, so I am not even going to bother reading the rest of your post! ;)

pacers74
07-28-2012, 02:54 PM
We tried the B.Rush experiment once. The problem with him isn't that he isn't talented. It is that he use that talent. He is lazy, dosen't play 100% when he is in the game, and his attitude wasn't great. He had those great stretches of games at the end of the season a couple of years back. That offseason alot of people on here thought he was our answer at SG. We thought he would average between 15-20 ppg. He never did. He just went back to the same old timid B.Rush.

He might be done. I think he can still give a team 10-15 minutes per game, but he has to find that team.

idioteque
07-28-2012, 05:34 PM
Regarding Rush's passive attitude, I think some of that would be ameliorated if he had Kobe or Lebron shouting at him every time he made a mistake to light a fire under him a bit. He is yet to play on a team with a really good vet.

OlBlu
07-28-2012, 06:05 PM
We tried the B.Rush experiment once. The problem with him isn't that he isn't talented. It is that he use that talent. He is lazy, dosen't play 100% when he is in the game, and his attitude wasn't great. He had those great stretches of games at the end of the season a couple of years back. That offseason alot of people on here thought he was our answer at SG. We thought he would average between 15-20 ppg. He never did. He just went back to the same old timid B.Rush.

He might be done. I think he can still give a team 10-15 minutes per game, but he has to find that team.

I would rather have Brandon Rush (good defender and shooter) than Jimmer Ferdette......:cool:

boombaby1987
07-28-2012, 10:14 PM
I would rather have Brandon Rush (good defender and shooter) than Jimmer Ferdette......:cool:

Can anyone honestly say they think Jimmer is better than Brandon is/was?

Jimmer will be out of the league when his rookie contract is up. He can't do anything but shoot and he is even struggling with that now. He was SO bad in summer league.

xBulletproof
07-29-2012, 12:50 AM
im sorry to all the Rush supporters in this thread but Rush never inspired any confidence in his ability to shoot and i believe he feels the same which is likely the reason he does not shoot it as often as his % would dictate.

You keep talking about Korver in the playoffs against us, but you realize he was shooting over a guy 8 inches shorter than him, yes? Pretty easy to be comfortable doing that all day.

You make it sound like shot volume is the giant difference here, and it's not. In Rush's 4 years in the league, he's shot 394 of 953. Korver in the last 4 years has shot 400-937. Pretty close to identical in shots made, and volume of them taken.


btw, rush is a FA right now i believe and im sure he will land somewhere, but that should measure just how valuable this guy is at his craft, whereas Korver was immediately signed... so i ask why is that if korver the inferior defensive player has the same 3pt% to rush then why is Korver already under contract and Rush is not. its because he sucks point blank.

Just so you know, Korver wasn't a free agent, and he was traded to the Hawks for nothing but "cash considerations". As we know, guys who are cold hard killers on the court get traded for packages that involve no picks, and no players all the time.

You have some strange personal vendetta here, because you're skewing facts, making things up and calling other people names the whole way down that road. There was a lot of misinformation in there, but I only picked these two things because I didn't feel like spending several minutes on it. Rush doesn't and didn't suck.

Ramitt
07-29-2012, 03:54 AM
Rush was never consistent at anything!

Never consistent, but he was chronic!
http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2010/05/rimshot.png

OlBlu
07-29-2012, 09:00 AM
Can anyone honestly say they think Jimmer is better than Brandon is/was?

Jimmer will be out of the league when his rookie contract is up. He can't do anything but shoot and he is even struggling with that now. He was SO bad in summer league.

I will admit that when people started talking about drafting Jimmer for the Pacers, I said he had bust written all over him. They all said there is always a place for a good shooter but not for one that cannot get his own shot once in a while. Add being a defensive liability to that and Jimmer will be playing in Europe if there.....:cool:

Eleazar
07-29-2012, 01:34 PM
Rush's biggest problem with Pacers fans is that he never lived up to expectations, and for some reason most fans are unable to change their expectations to see the good in a player instead of just seeing the disappointment.

BlueNGold
07-29-2012, 02:37 PM
Rush has a ton of God given talents, but the way he uses them makes him a dime-a-dozen NBA player. So...quite frankly his position on the team isn't going to make much of a difference. George Hill could get backup minutes at the 2 and would play a much better game. Lance might blow up this year. OJ might start playing well. Paul George should be on the floor 35-40 minutes every night anyway. Seriously, let's quit with the "what ifs" around Brandon Rush. He had years to make good on his talent and he never did make a difference in Indy.

OlBlu
07-29-2012, 03:06 PM
Rush has a ton of God given talents, but the way he uses them makes him a dime-a-dozen NBA player. So...quite frankly his position on the team isn't going to make much of a difference. George Hill could get backup minutes at the 2 and would play a much better game. Lance might blow up this year. OJ might start playing well. Paul George should be on the floor 35-40 minutes every night anyway. Seriously, let's quit with the "what ifs" around Brandon Rush. He had years to make good on his talent and he never did make a difference in Indy.

I don't see why OJ would even make this team. I expect him to be one and done..... or even less.....:cool:

CableKC
07-29-2012, 03:49 PM
I would say that he could be used in the role of an extra 3-point specialist when one is needed. But is that a need? Or is that role already covered by one or more primary backups? For that matter, does Pietrus not provide more than Rush without the detriment of the historical baggage already created with the team?
from what I recall, Pietrus is skilled as a perimeter defender....but doesn't have a high basketball IQ and has questionable shot selection. Its possible that this has changed since his days with Golden State....but if I had a choice between Pietrus and BRush and needed a specific perimeter defender that can hit the 3pt shot....Id choose BRush over Pietrus. I know what I get from BRush if I set my expectations low.

CableKC
07-29-2012, 03:55 PM
We tried the B.Rush experiment once. The problem with him isn't that he isn't talented. It is that he use that talent. He is lazy, dosen't play 100% when he is in the game, and his attitude wasn't great. He had those great stretches of games at the end of the season a couple of years back. That offseason alot of people on here thought he was our answer at SG. We thought he would average between 15-20 ppg. He never did. He just went back to the same old timid B.Rush.

He might be done. I think he can still give a team 10-15 minutes per game, but he has to find that team.
BRush received a qualifying offer from the Warriors. Given the number of Players on their rookie contracts that did not receive a qualifying offer....what does that tell you?

BringJackBack
07-29-2012, 04:21 PM
You keep talking about Korver in the playoffs against us, but you realize he was shooting over a guy 8 inches shorter than him, yes? Pretty easy to be comfortable doing that all day.

You make it sound like shot volume is the giant difference here, and it's not. In Rush's 4 years in the league, he's shot 394 of 953. Korver in the last 4 years has shot 400-937. Pretty close to identical in shots made, and volume of them taken.



Just so you know, Korver wasn't a free agent, and he was traded to the Hawks for nothing but "cash considerations". As we know, guys who are cold hard killers on the court get traded for packages that involve no picks, and no players all the time.

You have some strange personal vendetta here, because you're skewing facts, making things up and calling other people names the whole way down that road. There was a lot of misinformation in there, but I only picked these two things because I didn't feel like spending several minutes on it. Rush doesn't and didn't suck.

And the winner here by the way of knockout, xBulletproof. lololololulz

Trader Joe
07-29-2012, 04:25 PM
I was not expecting to get on PD and see this thread again.

It seems PacersPride is still sticking to his old arguments. Hilarious

gummy
07-29-2012, 05:57 PM
I was not expecting to get on PD and see this thread again.

It seems PacersPride is still sticking to his old arguments. Hilarious

Yes, indeed. And arguments plural is exactly it. Let's see here, off the top of my head...

Rush is not a good 3 point shooter.
Rush is not a consistent 3 point shooter.
Rush is not a consistent 3 point threat.
Rush doesn't hit any big 3 point shoots.
Too many of Rush's 3's are wide open.
Rush air balled a 3 once, which shows he isn't a good shooter.
Rush isn't a good shooter.
Rush isn't a consistent shooter.
Rush doesn't score enough.

The best part? Whenever you poke holes in some of these (some make more sense than others, but he seems to like the silliest ones best), he just shifts to the next one and carries on as if they are the same argument! HI-LARIOUS, in a face meets brick wall kind of way. :| Does he care that Rush just came off a season shooting 50% overall and 45% from behind the line (and improved his much maligned free throw shooting average to just below 80%?) Nooooope, somehow it should be even more obvious to us that Rush totally sucks. :laugh: Come on man, even those of us who were disappointed with Rush's time here aren't buying it.

I'll stop contributing to the perpetuation of this ridiculous thread now. Training camp can't come soon enough!! :cool:

Naptown_Seth
07-30-2012, 06:17 PM
For those who love Rush, they need to get over the fact that while it would be great to have him back in Indiana, he will never come back for PR reasons, fair or not. And Indy is far from the best place for him to be playing right now anyway.
And this is why I get frustrated with TPTB/Bird because I feel like he somewhat perpetuated that view as some defense of his pick or something, like it was a good pick BUT he's lazy so it's not my fault.

If Larry/fanbase just accepted that he was a great 3pt bench SG defender (what DJones kinda was last year) and gave you more scoring+defense than Barbosa, then he could have just stood his ground, let fans accept that you build a team with high picks that become average and average picks that become great (and all other variations), and enjoy him filling a much needed role on the team.

BTW, ditto with Josh.

The whole Josh/Rush shuffle last year that ended up as Lou and Barbosa was just wasted energy. They easily could have just stood pat on both guys and spent basically exactly what they spent anyway for 2 known bench players with reliable specialty skills that the team needed.




Or in other words, Rush sux at 3 ball.




BTW, I don't get "lazy". The guy was a pretty strong shot blocker from the SG spot and a good SG rebounder...because those are things lazy players do, right? His only "lazy" area was not trying to take a shot 11 times in 10 minutes (ahem, Barbosa) and on this squad I wouldn't consider that a negative.

Sheesh, who wants a 30% 3pt guy taking 10 shots instead of passing to Roy, West, Paul, Danny, or George. I'll take the 40% 3pt guy shooting 5 times in 15 minutes and defending his position. He goes 2-5, that's 6 points on 5 shots and I'm happy. It's your bench 3pt specialist for chrissake, not Vinnie Johnson.

Hoop
07-30-2012, 07:55 PM
I watched a lot of Golden State games last season. Rush performed very well for them and was most definitely a consistent 3 point threat and as a defender. He was almost always in at crunch time, that right there says a lot about how well he played.

BlueNGold
07-30-2012, 08:55 PM
I watched a lot of Golden State games last season. Rush performed very well for them and was most definitely a consistent 3 point threat and as a defender. He was almost always in at crunch time, that right there says a lot about how well he played.

Crunch time? Golden State didn't have any meaningful crunch time. They were 13th out of 15 teams in their conference. OTOH, the Pacers were 3rd in their conference and had several bench players as good as Rush.

Seriously, I don't get this hand-wringing over Brandon Smokin' Rush. Collison was a better bench player and he's gone too. Dahntay Jones is basically Rush's equal bringing different things to the court. Both are good backups and both are gone. I suppose he's better than Barbosa, but that's not saying much. We probably should have kept DJ who I think is a better player overall. Certainly DJ doesn't fall asleep out there.

vnzla81
07-30-2012, 09:12 PM
Crunch time? Golden State didn't have any meaningful crunch time. They were 13th out of 15 teams in their conference. OTOH, the Pacers were 3rd in their conference and had several bench players as good as Rush.

Seriously, I don't get this hand-wringing over Brandon Smokin' Rush. Collison was a better bench player and he's gone too. Dahntay Jones is basically Rush's equal bringing different things to the court. Both are good backups and both are gone. I suppose he's better than Barbosa, but that's not saying much. We probably should have kept DJ who I think is a better player overall. Certainly DJ doesn't fall asleep out there.

Yes they did, GS lost so many last second games that I'm not sure if it was some kind of record, by the way Rush was huge for GS last year, he is their main defensive guy, he usually guards the Lebron's and Wade's of the NBA, call me crazy but the Pacers need a guy like him at this moment.

OlBlu
07-30-2012, 09:18 PM
Yes they did, GS lost so many last second games that I'm not sure if it was some kind of record, by the way Rush was huge for GS last year, he is their main defensive guy, he usually guards the Lebron's and Wade's of the NBA, call me crazy but the Pacers need a guy like him at this moment.

Amen!! :cool:

Hoop
07-30-2012, 10:48 PM
Crunch time? Golden State didn't have any meaningful crunch time. They were 13th out of 15 teams in their conference. OTOH, the Pacers were 3rd in their conference and had several bench players as good as Rush.

Seriously, I don't get this hand-wringing over Brandon Smokin' Rush. Collison was a better bench player and he's gone too. Dahntay Jones is basically Rush's equal bringing different things to the court. Both are good backups and both are gone. I suppose he's better than Barbosa, but that's not saying much. We probably should have kept DJ who I think is a better player overall. Certainly DJ doesn't fall asleep out there.
If you haven't noticed just about every NBA game comes down to the 4th quarter, so yes even bad teams like Golden State have plenty of games with crunch time. The bad teams just seem to lose most of them.

No hand ringing here, just saying Rush is a consistent 3 pt shooter and solid player. He blew his chance here and won't ever be invited back. I have no problem with that. Doesn't mean I don't like him as a player.

PacersPride
07-30-2012, 10:59 PM
I have nothing personal against Brandon Rush, and he may be doing well in GS, a change of scenery was probably good for the guy.. and CALI is probably a good location for Brandon in the grand scheme of things. My expectations of Rush lowered considerably after the first 5 games of the season he was suspended and came back to basically go back to his normal ways after a few good games. OBrien problem had a considerable amount to do with Rush's overall lack of development (JOB is a good scapegoat for any scenario). Rush would have been a find backup sg/sf, however ... Bird wanted him gone and he was very difficult to trade at least to the point where Memphis nixed a deal b/c he was included.

In his time w/ GS he may have improved, a 4% increase suggests so, nevertheless his time here in Indiana he was not a consistent 3 pt shooter. The best way to resolve this is with a game log of his career here with the Pacers.

I am not going to go to the detail this evening but i will try to check it out soon. sorry, ive seen that guy play 90% of his games as a Pacer, and I am not going to let his 3pt % mislead me.

it will be interesting to see the games where rush actually hit some 3's that meant much to the outcome of the game. his third year here is the season he came off the bench, so his #s should have improved against the other teams second unit.

if someone who can embed rush game log of at least his third season i would greatly appreciate it.. i can only provide the link. if possible pls include the opponent and final score, along with minutes played .. and free throws missed.

my hunch is rush had his best games against weak opponents (2nd units of nonplayoff temas) and blowouts.

sorry fellas, if brandon rush is consistent 3 pt threat than the league has some really bad shooters. rush was never consistent with antthing he did, not even defense.

BlueNGold
07-30-2012, 11:14 PM
Yes they did, GS lost so many last second games that I'm not sure if it was some kind of record, by the way Rush was huge for GS last year, he is their main defensive guy, he usually guards the Lebron's and Wade's of the NBA, call me crazy but the Pacers need a guy like him at this moment.

Rush was huge for a bad team. He was a bench player no better than Dahntay Jones for the Indiana Pacers and he wasn't as good as Collison. I don't get the love. Brandon had his head up his arse half the time all spaced out. When he wasn't spaced out, yes, he was a great defender. But that was half the time. He's not a crunch time player by any stretch and I cannot remember any games of relevance for him in Indiana. Lance Stephenson is younger than Rush was his rookie year and will probably far surpass him. Then you have George Hill who will get backup minutes at the 2. The Pacers simply don't need Brandon Rush. What you all value in Brandon isn't real. He doesn't play good defense for more than stretches and from one game to the next he vanished completely and was the definition of inconsistent. I could not be more happy the team moved on...

xBulletproof
07-30-2012, 11:28 PM
sorry, ive seen that guy play 90% of his games as a Pacer, and I am not going to let his 3pt % mislead me.

Here lies the problem. You think your perception is more accurate than what happened.

When a guy shoots 40%+ from 3 point range, 3 out of 4 seasons, and the only one he didn't was his rookie year .... he looks pretty consistent to anyone not letting their own personal perceptions get in the way. I don't care what the stats say in the game logs. Unless you can tell me who he was guarding and who was/wasn't on the floor at his position, it's meaningless.

It really is just that simple. On any given season only 20-30 NBA players shoot 40% from 3 point range with enough shots to qualify for the leader board. Rush has done it 3 seasons in a row.

PacersPride
07-31-2012, 12:36 AM
Here lies the problem. You think your perception is more accurate than what happened.

When a guy shoots 40%+ from 3 point range, 3 out of 4 seasons, and the only one he didn't was his rookie year .... he looks pretty consistent to anyone not letting their own personal perceptions get in the way. I don't care what the stats say in the game logs. Unless you can tell me who he was guarding and who was/wasn't on the floor at his position, it's meaningless.

It really is just that simple. On any given season only 20-30 NBA players shoot 40% from 3 point range with enough shots to qualify for the leader board. Rush has done it 3 seasons in a row.

no, my perception is accurate, the problem is some disagree with it.

let me ask, was robert horry a 3pt threat, many would say yes. now was horry consistent.. maybe. i dont remember him being an excellent 3 pt shooter, but whne the game was on the line there are very few i would choose to shoot the game winner than him. either way he still was not consistent.. and by consistent i mean excellent.

because here is the thing.. consistency means more than just a good shooter. i can go out in my driveway and knock down 30 3's in a row.. does that make me a consistent shooter??? well it depends, can i hit shots when the D is in my face, can i hit 3's vs weak and strong opponents, can i hit when it matters most or just when the game is a blowout.

to be truly a good 3 pt shooter, a player has to be consistent. hitting wide open 3's does not make me a consistently good shooter, its when someone is gaurding me and it matters most its what makes somone consistent. its the reason ray allen at 36% is a better shooter than rush at 45%.

and just think about this.. the difference between 45 and 36% is 9 threes per every 100. if an nba player shoots 300 threes in a season and makes 21 3's more than a 33% shooter, it puts him in the 40% group. just 21 's threes difference correct??

so if those 21 3's are against a second unit or come in a blowout victory or because an elite player draws the defense and kicks it to the player for a wide open corner three.. than just 21 of those gets you to 40%.

point is.. rush's % does not make him a consistent 3% threat.. not like a ray allen player who the defense constantly focuses on. if allen got rush's looks, he would shoot over 50%.. whereas if rush had ray allen type focus of defenses than were looking at a 30% shooter at best for rush.

ray allen is a consistent 3% threat.. rush is no where near his level. is rush a good stand still 3pt shooter.. sure maybe.. but in no way is "consistent and threat" words i would use to describe rush's ability as a shooter.

again.. %'s are very decieving sometimes, and those extra 21-28 3's a season are not going to mislead me into believeing rush was ever a consistent 3 pt shooter.

theres a chance im wrong on this one.. but having watched rush play.. there were times when he would be on.. maybe 1 in 5 games.. but over the duration of an entire season.. no rush was not a consistent 3 pt shooter for the blue and gold.

if someone who knows how to embed a game log on here could supply one that would be fantastic.

TheDavisBrothers
07-31-2012, 02:12 AM
:brokenrecord::jumpout:

Psyren
07-31-2012, 02:54 AM
Who cares?

Hes gone.

At what point do we finally move on from Josh/BRush threads?

xBulletproof
07-31-2012, 09:24 AM
:laugh:

So we've created a new criteria for judging shooters. We'll judge them based on the shots they never took, and assume we know the outcome to create our own personally bias filled end result!!

One of the silliest things I've ever heard in my life.

BRushWithDeath
07-31-2012, 09:26 AM
One of the silliest things I've ever heard in my life.

Without a hint of exaggeration, this is literally one of the 5 most illogical and asinine arguments I've ever seen.

docpaul
07-31-2012, 11:22 AM
To even further layer on top, there is literally 0% chance that Rush willingly comes back to Indy. He wanted a change of scenery. He said it to me directly. His future here in Indy was as a part of the bench mob, and that destiny was cast for him via a combination of his behavior and JOB's. He wanted a fresh opportunity to create a new outcome for his career.

I wish him the best of luck in his future exploits, but for all concerned, it's best that he moved on. He clearly is a comparably great outside shooter, and good defender... there's a shot that he'll find the right match for his skills on some team during his time in the NBA.

Not all team transactions are purely basketball related. Players are humans, not bags of statistics.

Ace E.Anderson
07-31-2012, 11:38 AM
to be truly a good 3 pt shooter, a player has to be consistent. hitting wide open 3's does not make me a consistently good shooter

I want NO part of this argument..but if you read this part out loud, it truly does not make any sense. You don't think having the ability to hit wide open 3's makes a player a consistent 3pt shooter?

This may just be my opinion but not all great 3pt shooters have the ability to make a move, and pull up to hit a 3, nor do they need to have the ability to roam off various screens before they launch a J from 3.

Some players just drift into the corner and/or wing to provide spacing for other players to operate, and then are counted on to knock down open 3's due to the opportunities created by their teammates. They aren't less efficient fust because they are shooting 3's within a spot up situation.

In fact, one could argue that they are MORE efficient simply because they don't know how many opportunities they are going to get to shoot. When you're working off screens, you know if you're open, you're getting the ball. When you're working in an iso or pick and roll situation, you know when you're open, you can shoot the 3.

But when you're spotting up, you don't know whether or not you're man is going to leave you open nor do you know whether or not someone will pass you the ball. It takes a lot of concentration to stand in one place catch and shoot. If everyone could do it, everyone would be 40% 3-pt shooters. But the league average is closer to 33-35% for a reason.

gummy
07-31-2012, 02:02 PM
Rush just re-signed with the Warriors for 2 years, $8 million total with the second year being a player option.

Not bad at all for a player that...oh, never mind. ;)

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8218540/brandon-rush-re-sign-golden-state-warriors-agent-says

BlueNGold
07-31-2012, 06:04 PM
...oh, and let's not forget Gerald Green who is at least as good and is also younger. So...we have Paul George, Danny Granger, George Hill, Lance Stephenson and Gerald Green playing on the wing...with Barbosa mopping up the garbage time. I think we'll be fine.

Honestly, I don't think Brush would get in the game if Lance Stephenson plays well on the second unit. There just wouldn't be any minutes.

MyFavMartin
08-01-2012, 02:22 PM
His defense and 3PT shooting has me thinking SA will sign him as for a Bruce Bowen-like role in a year or two.

joew8302
08-01-2012, 04:32 PM
Wow, who would have thought a Brandon Rush shooting thread would be the hottest of the summer?

cdash
08-01-2012, 04:55 PM
Wow, who would have thought a Brandon Rush shooting thread would be the hottest of the summer?

More important, who could possibly want a Brandon Rush shooting thread to be the hottest thread of summer?

AesopRockOn
08-01-2012, 05:03 PM
More important, who could possibly want a Brandon Rush shooting thread to be the hottest thread of summer?

The thread may be hot, but that doesn't make it consistent.

Sandman21
08-01-2012, 05:20 PM
Why won't this thread just die already?

BlueNGold
08-01-2012, 06:43 PM
His defense and 3PT shooting has me thinking SA will sign him as for a Bruce Bowen-like role in a year or two.

...so we just threw away Bruce Bowen? Wow.

PacersPride
08-01-2012, 08:13 PM
Rush's stats his last season with the Pacers. last year with the Warriors, Rush was a consistent 3 pt shooter. but this thread pertains to his last season here with indiana. the stats do not lie. i think my point has been proven.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3457/year/2011/brandon-rush

i cannot embed these stats into the post here, but look it up.

Rush had two good games in november out of 12-15. his best game was in a blowout win.. shocker right??

he improved in december but half the good games again were blowouts.

january he was awful. one good game shooting from 3 and guess what ... it was in a blowout win.

feb - INCONSISTENT

march- INCONSISTENT except for one or two blowout wins

april - he sucked. one good game in a blowout.

if someone can embed these stats i would appreciate it.

so far all i have heard about is his 3% but taking a closer look it becomes clear; rush was very inconsistent with his 3 the final season he played for the pacers. of his 20 some good games, 75% of them were in blowout victories.. when the defensive effort from the opposing team was at its worst.

review the stats. his previous season with GS.. he played much better and in fact was consistent. however his last year here with the pacers he was not consistent.

i believe this thread can now be closed. the final verdict is Rush was not a 3 pt shooter his final season with the Indiana Pacers.

end of discussion.

beast23
08-01-2012, 10:20 PM
More important, who could possibly want a Brandon Rush shooting thread to be the hottest thread of summer?

No ****. I thought we dumped him in a trade. He's gone... So who really cares whether he's consistent or not.

Or should we really get this thread hopping by bringing in Dunleavy to the conversation?

ECKrueger
08-02-2012, 12:16 AM
Rush > Dunleavy

BRushWithDeath
08-02-2012, 09:08 AM
review the stats. his previous season with GS.. he played much better and in fact was consistent. however his last year here with the pacers he was not consistent.

i believe this thread can now be closed. the final verdict is Rush was not a 3 pt shooter his final season with the Indiana Pacers.

end of discussion.

Brandon Rush final year with the Indiana Pacers: 93-223 (.417)

Brandon Rush first year with Golden State Warriors: 99-219 (.452)

I refuse to believe you are serious about this.

MyFavMartin
08-02-2012, 12:37 PM
Rush > Dunleavy

Not in over-all basketball. Dunleavy really helped the offense flow. Rush was a much better defender.

DemonHunter1105
08-02-2012, 01:25 PM
You know a thread deserves to be closed when the discussion of Rush vs Dunleavy rises from the dead again.

xBulletproof
08-02-2012, 05:46 PM
Silly. What NBA player isn't inconsistent from 3 point range, game to game? :laugh: You're just flat out asking for the impossible. Do you only shoot layups when you play basketball? Nobody is consistent from 23 feet from the rim.

The year of Brandon Rush you're singling out these are his 3 point percentages in each month.

32%, 47%, 39%, 43%, 38%, 52%

One single month under 38% from 3 point range. How horribly inconsistent.

Just for fun, I looked at Kevin Durants season last year, since it was a normal 82 game year. Here were his %'s per month.

23%, 41%, 35%, 31%, 45%, 24%

Steve Nash in the last 82 game season?

31%, 40%, 46%, 30%, 47%, 25%

It's too bad those guys were inconsistent bums. I might want them on my team otherwise. I guarantee if you look at their game logs you'll see the same "inconsistency" you see from Rush. When you're talking about a sample size of 2-6 shots, it's going to be inconsistent from that distance. Go outside and measure your consistency in 6 shot increments, and see how consistent you are with nobody even guarding you.

This thread can be closed now, it's obvious how silly this is.

End of discussion.

Eleazar
08-02-2012, 06:34 PM
Rush had two good games in november out of 12-15. his best game was in a blowout win.. shocker right??

he improved in december but half the good games again were blowouts.

january he was awful. one good game shooting from 3 and guess what ... it was in a blowout win.

feb - INCONSISTENT

march- INCONSISTENT except for one or two blowout wins

april - he sucked. one good game in a blowout.



Brandon Rush
Oct: Overall .324
Above 50% 2 games
above 40% 3 games
Above 30% 4 games
Below 30% 6 games
games played 11
10.7 ppg
28.2 mpg
FG% .469

Nov: Overall .478
Above 50% 6 games
Above 40% 10 games
Above 30% 12 games
Below 30% 3 games
Games Played 15
13.1 ppg
31.7 mpg
FG% .445

Dec: Overall .387
Above 50% 5 games
Above 40% 6 games
Above 30% 8 games
Below 30% 3 games
Game Played 11
8.1 ppg
26.4 mpg
FG% .386

Jan: Overall .429
Above 50% 3 games
Above 40% 4 games
Above 30% 5 games
Below 30% 1 game
Games Played 6
6.0 ppg
21.0 mpg
FG% .414

Feb: Overall .379
Above 50% 5 games
Above 40% 5 games
Above 30% 10 games
Below 30% 6 games
Games played 18
6.7 ppg
24.5 mpg
FG% .372

Mar: Overall .526
Above 50% 3 games
Above 40% 3 games
Above 30% 5 games
Below 30% 1 game
Games played 6
8.0 ppg
18.5 mpg
FG% .436

Post: Overall .750
Above 50% 2 games
Above 40% 2 games
Above 30% 2 games
Below 30% 1 games
Games played 5
3.2ppg
11.0 mpg
FG% .462

max variance FG% .097 3pt% .426

average variance FG% .041(.043 without playoffs) 3pt% .193(.097 without playoffs)

max variance in mpg 20.7
average variance in mpg 5.2

and a comparison Kyle Korver

Oct: Overall .438
Above 50% 8 games
above 40% 10 games
Above 30% 10 games
Below 30% 3 games
games played 13
10.3 ppg
24.7 mpg
FG% .470

Nov: Overall .358
Above 50% 7 games
Above 40% 8 games
Above 30% 8 games
Below 30% 8 games
Games Played 16
8.2 ppg
20.8 mpg
FG% .402

Dec: Overall .387
Above 50% 7 games
Above 40% 8 games
Above 30% 10 games
Below 30% 4 games
Game Played 16
7.3 ppg
18.6 mpg
FG% .418

Jan: Overall .477
Above 50% 5 games
Above 40% 6 games
Above 30% 10 games
Below 30% 1 game
Games Played 11
8.5 ppg
19.5 mpg
FG% .478

Feb: Overall .379
Above 50% 6 games
Above 40% 7 games
Above 30% 11 games
Below 30% 5 games
Games played 16
8.6 ppg
18.1 mpg
FG% .455

Mar: Overall .321
Above 50% 4 games
Above 40% 4 games
Above 30% 4 games
Below 30% 4 game
Games played 8
7.6 ppg
19.6 mpg
FG% .396

Post: Overall .423
Above 50% 8 games
Above 40% 8 games
Above 30% 10 games
Below 30% 5 games
Games played 16
6.6ppg
17.3 mpg
FG% .318


max variance FG% .16 3pt% .156

average variance FG% .051 (.045 without playoffs) 3-t% .076 (.071 without playoffs)

max variance in mpg 19.8
average variance in mpg 2.03

I suggest you copy and paste these into two separate Notepad notes.

Eleazar
08-02-2012, 06:46 PM
When comparing these two you will see that Korver is more consistent from month to month on average. This can be explained for two reasons. At the end of the season BRush exploded into a .526 3pt% which is high for anyone's standard, and a .750 for the playoffs (small sample size). This causes Rush's average variance from month to month to be high at .193. If you disregard the playoffs, that drops down to a .097 which is greater than Korver's .071, but not by it is a lot closer. There are also some other factors you need to look at such as, Rush suffered an injury in the middle of the season which kept him out for about a month (give or take), which can have an effect on a players consistency. Also Rush's average variance in minutes from month to month was almost 2.5 times higher than Korver's. Korver pretty much stayed relatively equal in minutes per game over the course of the season while Rush varied much more. Anyone who knows anything about sports understands that consistency in minutes means consistency in production, and inconsistent minutes means inconsistent production. Finally the last fact that needs to be considered is that we are comparing Rush's 3rd season to Korver's 9th season. It is typical for a younger player to be more inconsistent than a veteran. I would imagine if you went back and looked at Korver's third season he would be about as consistent as Rush.

BlueNGold
08-02-2012, 07:00 PM
The Great Brandon Rush...

-smh

xBulletproof
08-02-2012, 07:08 PM
Who said Brandon Rush is great? What are you reading?

I guess you can exaggerate what is being said if it makes you feel better. :shrug:

PacersPride
08-02-2012, 08:39 PM
nobody even reads much of anything else someone has to say. i have made so many valid points throughout this thread and im done repeating them. everyones minds are already made up and its like talking to a wall in alot of ways.

lets make this simple shall we. my original comment was during a game thread way back. i stated rush is not a good shooter or 3 pt shooter, something like that. p4e took offense to the comment and so here we are.

i probably should have clarified but heck with it.. i think i was aneibrieated of some kind watcching the game somewhere and prob misspoke to some degree. the premise was simply that for all the talk about rush's shooting abilities, he is inconsistent. if rush is as consistent as many of you have voted than i do not understand why this guy is not an allstar or getting offerred more than 4M a season which is almost equivalent to a guy who played over in europe for several season and had half a good season and is paid appoximately the same as rush.

if rush is a knock down 3 pt shooter than why is he not starting. he is better defensively and more athletic than many of the other above average shooters in this league. i mean even rashard lewis got paid a max and the only thing i know that guy can do is jack up 3's. if rush per the votes is a consistent shooter from deep, than he neeeds to start firing em up at will so he can get paid.

anyways. as i was eluding to earlier. i prob shoulda just said rush is not a consistent shot. i mean the guy flippin airballed a wide open 3. i remember like it was last season. i have nothing against rush but the guy was a total dissapointment here. i like many held Obrien accountable.. and even hoped rush would return as primary backup off the bench at both sg/sf - his size is an advantage.

the title of this thread is irrelevant because its next to impossible to define consistent in this context.

lets just ask the question, is rush a consistent shooter overall. i without hesitation say no. in fact, rush always seemed uncomfortable unless he was shooting from deep wide open. even his 12 foot jumpshots just felt like they were not going in most of the time.. i can understand this because there are some spots on the court a player is not as skilled, heck even rush was bad at ft's.

is rush a consistent shooter overall.. NO. is he a good 3 pt shooter, i guess, but the majority of his good shooting games were with large leads. i def believe rush is more talented than he has demonstrated at least w the Pacers, but his play was always lackluster 75% of the time, but he would play good defense most nights.

bottom line:

rush is good shooter when he can set and get his shot off. dont expect him to come off a screen and score, or even create his own. is rush a good shooter ... at times, but he can dissappear from one game or 5 game stretch at a time. maybe it was Obriens style.. tho it would tend to benefit rush one would think?? never knew what to expect from rush..

granted players have off nights, but too often rush would contribute little off the bench vs weaker opponents.

for the sake of argument; i will say rush is a above average to good 3 pt shooter when the right circumstances is presented. i just do not see rush ever in a role of even a korver, where he can come off the bench and light you up.. throw jj reddick in that group as well. korver/reddick those guys will take more aggressive shots and its probably the reason they have lower %s than rush.. but i would take them over rush anyday as that shooting specialist off the bench.

who would you all have chosen to have during the heat pacers semi conference finals.. they all play pretty much the same position. rush's defense is the only reason he is even included in that conversation, but strictly shooting, its not even close.

sure rush's % is solid, its because he only takes good shots within the flow of the offense, which is fine, but for whatever reason it is that i cannot put my finger on.. i still trust a guy like korver or reddick over rush even tho the %s indicate otherwise.

i still do not see him as consistent but thats okay.. and its okay you all believe he is consistent.. just have different POV's and defined meanings of consistent that vary.

in unison im sure many of us see rush the same way. as primarily a wing off then bench that can come in and give you solid d, and every 1 game out of 4 will score. nothing special, and not a guy i see making a significant impact in the postseason.

lastly, i also do not understand with all the skill rush possesses why this guy was so difficult to trade. any of the many yes voters feel welcome to shed some insight on any of the above mentioned statements.

vnzla81
08-02-2012, 09:06 PM
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/attachments/screenshots/212322d1342268364-so-i-quit-my-job-last-week-thread20kill7pk.jpg

ECKrueger
08-02-2012, 10:00 PM
I won't quote or address the entire post before, but how many players are all stars because they're consistent from 3 and play good D? Not to mention play in a small market.

Goodness, I know people didn't like Rush, but I figured most agreed he could knock down a deep shot and D up.

PacersPride
08-02-2012, 10:49 PM
easy solution. do not read the thread.

this from a guy who is on record as saying ryan anderson is equal to or better than david west. vnzla i bet gets a real kick out of not being considered the village idiot for a change.



you ever find your ball**** to post again on the "Legend will win EOY" thread.

vnzla81
08-02-2012, 11:12 PM
easy solution. do not read the thread.

this from a guy who is on record as saying ryan anderson is equal to or better than david west. vnzla i bet gets a real kick out of not being considered the village idiot for a change.



you ever find your ball**** to post again on the "Legend will win EOY" thread.


http://i.minus.com/i4ZaTqRe8NsEQ.gif

ilive4sports
08-02-2012, 11:57 PM
can i change my vote to "Kill me. Kill me now"?

WhoLovesYaBaby?
08-03-2012, 11:18 AM
Just for funsies...

Yay or nay.

The only thing that will ever be "consistent" about Rush is that he will always have a decent year when his contract is expiring.

Kind of like the sainted McRoberts and a few dozen other players in the league.

pacergod2
08-03-2012, 12:22 PM
Sorry, I didn't read this whole thread, because I haven't had much time to even be on here lately, but I will say this as someone who really likes Brandon's game.

The idea that anybody is a consistent three point shooter is contradictory. You are asking for consistency from the least inconsistent shot in basketball? Nonsense.

But I digress... Brandon is a fantastic three point shooter, because he typically takes smart shots within the offense. He continues ball movement when the shot isn't there and knocks down a hell of a lot of threes when he is open. I am looking forward to seeing Brandon in GS this year playing next to Curry. I think Curry is easily the best PG that Brandon will play with. He didn't get a huge sample size of games to get comfortable with Curry. I think we will see a better Brandon Rush this year, because this offense is going to suit him much better than anything we had or a team with Monta Ellis holding the ball until there are two seconds on the shot clock. I think Brandon's career would be looked at much differently if he had found a team that fit his skill set better. Hopefully this GS offense is better than what they were doing last year.

Brandon is a championship caliber first wing off the bench, who is a very capable starter on half the teams in the league. His three point shooting is very good, IMO. Much of this has to do with his form and his excellent balance. Now if he would be a bit more aggressive playing to a more diverified offensive game, then he would give you more like 15 ppg and great defense. He has a good mid range shot that he doesn't utilize nearly enough, especially considering his balance and leg strength are his greatest asset as a player. I just hope he continues to grow as a player. I know I will be rooting for him to do well against everyone but the Pacers.

I'm still going to look into getting Green across my Pacers #25 jersey, though.

Sandman21
08-03-2012, 05:18 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwd8r84hbz1qa8o7a.gif

For Pete's sake,

LET IT DIE.

Peck
08-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Yea I hate to lock threads but this is just starting to spiral out of control.

I am certain I've spoken to a couple of you before but again could we please stop with the insulting of one another. It does no good for anyone and does not advance your point of view forward at all and in fact distracts from it generally.