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Trader Joe
11-14-2010, 07:10 PM
Potential trap game tonight against Wright State. They're probably the second best program in the Horizon and feature several upperclassmen. IU is much more talented, but we must take every opportunity we have to put this team away. We can't let them hang around.

Slick Pinkham
11-14-2010, 08:55 PM
Defensive intensity looks much improved so far. The offense looks anything but smooth. Some questionable charge calls...

at halftime 30-19 IU

Trader Joe
11-14-2010, 09:00 PM
They mentioned they don't like Hulls playing point guard because he is too hard on himself and is more relaxed off the ball so they have Verdell run the point...Um, what?

Trader Joe
11-14-2010, 10:32 PM
Hoosiers win 67-44. Pretty encouraging game all things considered. D was great. Offense needs some work. Still though, just laid a pretty good beat down on a team that has won 20 or more games something like 5 years in a row.

pwee31
11-14-2010, 11:41 PM
Nice win against Wright St. I believe they had a key player injured, but I'll take it!

cdash
11-14-2010, 11:47 PM
They mentioned they don't like Hulls playing point guard because he is too hard on himself and is more relaxed off the ball so they have Verdell run the point...Um, what?

That's a good thing. Not so much that Hulls is too hard on himself, but that kid is not a point guard. He picks up his dribble too much and doesn't really make anything happen. He is better suited as a spot shooter. Verdell handles the ball better and can actually create offense for himself. I like the move.

Trader Joe
11-14-2010, 11:50 PM
Huls is absolutely a point guard. He's the best passer on the team by a mile.

cdash
11-15-2010, 12:39 AM
Huls is absolutely a point guard. He's the best passer on the team by a mile.

So what? Roy might be the best passer on the Pacers, but that doesn't make him a point guard. Hulls has lackluster handles, relatively poor decision making, and as I mentioned earlier, the inexplicable need to pick up his dribble way too early. He can't create his own shots, he's too small and too unathletic to make things happen. He is at his best when he is camped out at the three point line waiting to cath and shoot. Technically, he is a point guard. In practice, he is better off playing as the shooting guard on offense.

I'm not criticizing Hulls--he is what he is. I like him when he is utilized correctly. His dead-eye three point shooting is going to be incredibly important to us once we get out of the creampuff portion of our schedule.

Trader Joe
11-15-2010, 01:14 PM
I don't know...I think Hulls will end up being a Travis Diener type role for us. He does pick up his dribble too early, I disagree on his decision making though, he's absolutely at his best when we're in the open court running the break. I want the ball in his hands. Now in the half court, he does have some struggles, but I'd rather work that out than play him as an undersized 2. Just my 2 cents.

cdash
11-15-2010, 03:57 PM
I don't know...I think Hulls will end up being a Travis Diener type role for us. He does pick up his dribble too early, I disagree on his decision making though, he's absolutely at his best when we're in the open court running the break. I want the ball in his hands. Now in the half court, he does have some struggles, but I'd rather work that out than play him as an undersized 2. Just my 2 cents.

He doesn't play as an undersized 2. The role in the offense he plays in more shooting guard than point guard. He still guards the opposing team's point guard and he is still guarded by the opposing team's point guard. The only thing that changes is his role in the half court offense.

Trader Joe
11-15-2010, 03:59 PM
I'm thinking more down the road than this season. It works OK now because you have Verdell, but Verdell will be gone after next season, so admittedly Hulls can fix all the things that hurt him in the half court offense.

I definitely want to see him having the ball in his hands though in the fast break. He is our best decision maker at that point IMO. Certainly better than Jones who at one point yesterday had 0 assists and 3 turnovers.

cdash
11-15-2010, 04:32 PM
I'm thinking more down the road than this season. It works OK now because you have Verdell, but Verdell will be gone after next season, so admittedly Hulls can fix all the things that hurt him in the half court offense.

I definitely want to see him having the ball in his hands though in the fast break. He is our best decision maker at that point IMO. Certainly better than Jones who at one point yesterday had 0 assists and 3 turnovers.

I'm fine with him handling the ball on the break. It's the half court offense that I am talking about.

I think this is why Crean has been recruiting point guards, and why I think Yogi is so critical for our team. I think Hulls can learn to be a good game manager, but he isn't much of a playmaker in our half court offense. In college, you need guys who handle the ball a lot to be able to make plays.

Trader Joe
11-15-2010, 05:52 PM
Well Yogi certainly is a very skilled player. The fact he is ranked so high at only 5'11" reflects that.

cdash
11-15-2010, 06:03 PM
Well Yogi certainly is a very skilled player. The fact he is ranked so high at only 5'11" reflects that.

Actually, from people who have seen him play, they say that Darren Collison isn't a bad comparison.

Trader Joe
11-15-2010, 06:19 PM
Actually, from people who have seen him play, they say that Darren Collison isn't a bad comparison.

I'd be fine with that.

I've seen some video of him, but not live yet.

My point in general though is that high school recruiting tends to give a big bump to size over skill. Thus why Oden was always ranked higher than Conley, but anyone that ever saw Lawrence North play could see that Conley was the reason they were so unbeatable. Reflected in the fact that LN had a losing record when Conley missed games in high school.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 09:27 PM
Hulls has certainly looked like a PG tonight adding to his arsenal of sick passes. ;)

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 09:53 PM
Some of these passes from Hulls have been absurd.

cdash
11-16-2010, 10:31 PM
Hulls has certainly looked like a PG tonight adding to his arsenal of sick passes. ;)

Yeah, he really has. Looks a lot more comfortable out there. I was really impressed with his handles tonight. I love the progress I've seen out of our sophomores this season, minus Creek, who looks about 70%. And the freshmen look great. Oladipo was +30 (!!!) tonight.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 10:46 PM
Sheehey looked fantastic tonight.

I'm a little worried about Mo. I don't think he'll ever be the player he could have been which is a damn shame. Really saddens me. He could have been great. Now I think his ceiling is more Rod Wilmont than AJ Guyton.

Verdell has to cut back on his turnovers. 7 is a ridiculous number.

Watford has legitimately become a beast.

First time 3-0 in the Crean era. And this Miss Valley State team played Georgia to a two point game on the road last week, so their press is definitely a pesky test. Glad to see we passed.

cdash
11-16-2010, 11:49 PM
Sheehey looked fantastic tonight.

I'm a little worried about Mo. I don't think he'll ever be the player he could have been which is a damn shame. Really saddens me. He could have been great. Now I think his ceiling is more Rod Wilmont than AJ Guyton.

Verdell has to cut back on his turnovers. 7 is a ridiculous number.

Watford has legitimately become a beast.

First time 3-0 in the Crean era. And this Miss Valley State team played Georgia to a two point game on the road last week, so their press is definitely a pesky test. Glad to see we passed.

Dang didn't realize Verdell had 7 TOs. Yeah he needs to cut down on those.

I think Creek will be fine eventually. I think we will see him find his stride (health permitting, of course) when we are four or five games into the Big Ten schedule.

Watford has become a beast. He is still going to get his shot blocked a lot when we face bigger teams, but he has made a leap.

If we don't have GMM back by the time we play Ohio State, they are going to absolutely murder us inside. Bigger teams are still going to tear us apart. GMM might not be a world breaker, but he is vital to this teams' success in the B10.

And I think that team we played tonight blew. They looked really awful to me. Next game is Sunday versus...the mighty PURPLE ACES!!! Woohoo! I will be in attendance for that one. Being from Evansville, that raping of the Aces will be a great treat for me.

Trader Joe
11-16-2010, 11:59 PM
They weren't talented, but they were scrappy and had great motors. Didn't have anything even resembling an offensive game plan though. Georgia has a very good team also. Athletic, pressing teams like that can be a pain.

Trader Joe
11-17-2010, 12:16 AM
Oh and who knows about Guy. The NCAA is really yanking us around with that, he played 5 games in Europe with some guys that might have been pros and during those 5 games he played a total of 2 minutes on the court. It seems pretty cut and dry to me, but who knows.

I just wish they would hurry up and make their decision as it isn't fair to Guy or us to drag it out like this.

jeffg-body
11-18-2010, 12:22 AM
I haven't gotten the chance to see any games yet, but I feel positive about the way things are going and they way coach Crean runs the team. He will have us back to where we should be as a power in the big ten soon. He'll do it the right way as well.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 11:55 AM
Sad news today, Former Hoosier AJ Moye, who is best remembered for being the fire off of IU's bench during the run to the 2002 National Championship game, suffered a stroke while playing in Germany this week. He collided heads with another player and symptoms worsened as the day went on before he finally suffered a stroke.

He is in the hospital now and there is no news on his condition or prognosis.

:(

He is probably most famous for blocking the ***** out of Carlos Boozer in 2002 to help IU move on to the Elite Eight. He also hit the game clinching free throws with 11 seconds left to make sure that Jason Williams three would prove to be irrelevant. Perhaps the most exciting basketball game I've ever watched.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2010-07/54812648.jpg


"That block, it kind of amazed me," Moye said. "I thought he
was going to dunk it. I was up so high, I felt I might as well
block it."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2010-07/54812648.jpg

Pray for him Hoosier Nation! The man left everything on the floor for us.

cdash
11-18-2010, 01:18 PM
Terrible news about AJ Moye. One of my all-time favorite Hoosiers. I hope he pulls through this alright.

Seeing these pictures of Moye reminds me of just how awesome our uniforms used to be. I loved those uniforms. The new ones this year (and every year that we have been with bush league Adidas) suck. This year's are especially awful. They look like some ****ty replica uniform you buy at TIS or something. Please Indiana, go back to Nike. Adidas ****ing sucks.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 02:22 PM
I don't mind them, there is only so much you can do with our vanilla uniforms anyway. Although I certainly wouldn't mind going back to being a Nike school, but I think our switch to adidas was largely because of the soccer program.

Shade
11-18-2010, 03:57 PM
That really sucks about AJ. He's one of my all-time favorite Hoosiers.

Get better, dude.

Trader Joe
11-18-2010, 04:01 PM
JMV tweeted that he is now doing well and is expected to make a full recovery.

Shade
11-18-2010, 04:07 PM
:yay:

Trader Joe
11-19-2010, 03:36 PM
Yogi will commit to the Hoosiers next Wednesday...Book it.

cdash
11-19-2010, 07:51 PM
TJ do you go on those recruiting sites like Peegs? Or does anyone else here for that matter?

I really hate the NCAA allowing the Adidas logo and the Nike swoosh logo on jerseys now. Uniforms look so cluttered with those logos on there, on top of that there is a new mandatory NCAA patch on the other side which clutters it up even more. Those teams with a memorial patch or an American flag patch look even worse. Someone needs to put me in charge of stuff like this. I would not stand for it.

Trader Joe
11-19-2010, 10:44 PM
I go to lots of different places, pretty much any recruiting site I can get my hands on, but honestly the best recruiting news source is...Twitter.

cdash
11-19-2010, 10:57 PM
Always. Twitter is the best place for news and information about anything.

Pig Nash
11-21-2010, 05:02 AM
I honestly don't see the difference between the newer jerseys and the older ones, other than the patches, but that's inevitable. I'm glad we're not a Nike team cuz then we'd get some sublimated crap on the back or something. I really like our vanilla uniforms and I hope we never **** them up like the football team did this year after finally having nice uniforms for the past 5 years.

cdash
11-21-2010, 09:47 PM
Oh man. What a great day. I witness in person the Hoosiers defeat the mighty Purple Aces from my hometown of Evansville, and then two more guys commit to Indiana. Welcome Devin Davis and Collin Hartman, two 2013 kids who are very highly regarded. Yogi announces for IU on Wednesday, and word has it that Gary Harris might pop for Indiana soon. Holy lord this is amazing. Borders are locked and we kicked West Lafayette out of the state.

Trader Joe
11-22-2010, 10:04 AM
Somewhere in West Lafayette, IN and in East Lansing, MI and in Columbus, OH and in Madison, WI, Matt Painter, Tom Izzo, Thad Matta, and Bo Ryan are looking at their assistant coaches, and saying "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant."

When Bruce Weber he was asked for a comment, he mad unintelligible baby noises that sounded roughly like Eric Gordon. He had no further comment.

Mackey_Rose
11-22-2010, 01:06 PM
Somewhere in West Lafayette, IN and in East Lansing, MI and in Columbus, OH and in Madison, WI, Matt Painter, Tom Izzo, Thad Matta, and Bo Ryan are looking at their assistant coaches, and saying "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant."

When Bruce Weber he was asked for a comment, he mad unintelligible baby noises that sounded roughly like Eric Gordon. He had no further comment.

Love the historical reference, but I'm not sure it really applies here. I don't think any of those coaches had any serious misconceptions about IU's program. Everyone knew they were a sleeping giant, and it was only a matter of time before Crean (or somebody else) got them back on track.

We are all Pacers fans here, and I'm a Boiler fan so it pains me to admit it, but anybody who is from this state knows that IU is Indiana Basketball. The lean years of Davis and Sampson will be nothing but a short, unfortunate anomaly in the history of the program.

I'm still hopeful we can get Gary Harris up to West Lafayette, but if not, I hope he lands in B-Town. You guys need him more than we do.

Trader Joe
11-22-2010, 01:11 PM
Love the historical reference, but I'm not sure it really applies here. I don't think any of those coaches had any serious misconceptions about IU's program. Everyone knew they were a sleeping giant, and it was only a matter of time before Crean (or somebody else) got them back on track.

We are all Pacers fans here, and I'm a Boiler fan so it pains me to admit it, but anybody who is from this state knows that IU is Indiana Basketball. The lean years of Davis and Sampson will be nothing but a short, unfortunate anomaly in the history of the program.

I'm still hopeful we can get Gary Harris up to West Lafayette, but if not, I hope he lands in B-Town. You guys need him more than we do.

Is that going to be so true after this season? I don't see Purdue being significantly better than IU next season, if at all really. Our recruiting classes have actually been superior over the past couple years.

And yes I was embellishing a bit with the historical reference. :D

Harris intrigues me. I've heard since middle of last week that there will be two big pops for Indiana by December. One being Yogi of course, and he is committing on Wednesday before the Park Tudor game. The other one has been kept quiet. Harris though was at the IU game yesterday and there were Gary Harris chants going on. We're making a hard push, if we add him and Yogi to 2012, it's over. Turn off the lights. That's the number 1 class by a large margin. And that's not even counting 2013 which will be strong or 2014.

Plus if we add the other Park Tudor kid Blueitt who is in the '14 class I believe, that could be 3 top 25 players locked up for that class.

cdash
11-22-2010, 02:25 PM
Love the historical reference, but I'm not sure it really applies here. I don't think any of those coaches had any serious misconceptions about IU's program. Everyone knew they were a sleeping giant, and it was only a matter of time before Crean (or somebody else) got them back on track.

We are all Pacers fans here, and I'm a Boiler fan so it pains me to admit it, but anybody who is from this state knows that IU is Indiana Basketball. The lean years of Davis and Sampson will be nothing but a short, unfortunate anomaly in the history of the program.

I'm still hopeful we can get Gary Harris up to West Lafayette, but if not, I hope he lands in B-Town. You guys need him more than we do.

Level headed post by a rival fan. Nice to see.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Gary Harris though. I think it is either going to be Indiana or Michigan State for him. Reading some of the comments he has made recently, I think IU is the leader for his services.

I agree with Trader Joe too...I think that Purdue's dominance over IU ends with this season. Even if Hummel comes back healthy next year (big if with that kid, unfortunately), I think we will have at least pulled even with the Boilers. Another year of growth out of our current sophomores, plus the much needed frontcourt boost provided by Cody Zeller and I think we surpass Purdue.

What is the feeling within your fanbase about all this? I've read a few of the boards and it seems to be split between people saying Crean is an idiot and won't do anything with the talent and people being genuinely concerned with the stranglehold on in-state talent that IU currently possesses. From the outside, it looks like Painter missed a golden opportunity to lock some of this talent up when Indiana was down. It will always be easier to recruit kids to Indiana over Purdue (no offense), but it just seems like Painter has missed an opportunity.

cdash
11-22-2010, 02:29 PM
Is that going to be so true after this season? I don't see Purdue being significantly better than IU next season, if at all really. Our recruiting classes have actually been superior over the past couple years.

And yes I was embellishing a bit with the historical reference. :D

Harris intrigues me. I've heard since middle of last week that there will be two big pops for Indiana by December. One being Yogi of course, and he is committing on Wednesday before the Park Tudor game. The other one has been kept quiet. Harris though was at the IU game yesterday and there were Gary Harris chants going on. We're making a hard push, if we add him and Yogi to 2012, it's over. Turn off the lights. That's the number 1 class by a large margin. And that's not even counting 2013 which will be strong or 2014.

Plus if we add the other Park Tudor kid Blueitt who is in the '14 class I believe, that could be 3 top 25 players locked up for that class.

Yeah, that 2012 class is shaping up to be the foundation for a top 5 team, all kidding aside. It's pretty obvious we are going to land Yogi Wednesday, and I really think Gary Harris will join him at some point. A Yogi, Harris, Perea, Jurkin, Patterson class is easily a top 5 class, and probably higher. I won't call it the best class because we know Calipari will lure 3 or 4 blue chippers to UK.

It's really hard to not get excited about the future of IU basketball right now. We have been waiting for so long to finally be nationally relevant again. I think we win 16 or so games this year, I think we make the NCAA tournament next year, and I think we have a top 15 team at the very least when that 2012 class enters as freshmen.

Trader Joe
11-22-2010, 03:29 PM
Cdash, you're talking about landing the number 1 PF recruit, the number 1 SG recruit, and the number 2 PG recruit along with two legit 4 stars. Kentucky would have to unload an absolutely insane class to beat that. And you're assuming that Cheatin' Cal will still be coach there in 2012. Don't bet on that one. He's NBA bound IMO at some point, it's in his blood, and he'll probably leave UK in a recruiting mess/controversy whenever he makes the leap. That's his style, and if you don't believe me just ask UMass and Memphis.

cdash
11-22-2010, 06:57 PM
Cdash, you're talking about landing the number 1 PF recruit, the number 1 SG recruit, and the number 2 PG recruit along with two legit 4 stars. Kentucky would have to unload an absolutely insane class to beat that. And you're assuming that Cheatin' Cal will still be coach there in 2012. Don't bet on that one. He's NBA bound IMO at some point, it's in his blood, and he'll probably leave UK in a recruiting mess/controversy whenever he makes the leap. That's his style, and if you don't believe me just ask UMass and Memphis.

I don't doubt that at all. I am waiting patiently for Calipari to get caught for the myriad of NCAA rules he breaks. Sadly, to this point, he hasn't been caught, just the schools he's coached at. He's a cheater, but he's a pretty good cheater, I'll give him that. And have you seen their recent classes? Three of the top 10 players from the 2011 class signed, and their fourth commit was ranked in the top 20. He gets the top guys year in and year out. I would rather have our guys because they aren't all one and dones, but the recruiting rankings will likely have the Wildcats right up there at #1 after signing day.

travmil
11-22-2010, 09:11 PM
If any local folks haven't been out to Warren Central to see Davis play, make the trip. I'm not going to say the kids a sure fire star...yet. I saw him play 7 times last year. What I liked most about him was that he played well, making smart decisions in all types of situations. What I like more is that he raised his game against his toughest opponents, often dominating in games against what was supposed to be a challenge. Not super strong but VERY athletic so he gets a lot of rebounds. He might have to change up his tactics in college where pretty much every team can box out. Very smooth with the ball, has shooting guard handles even though for WC he mostly plays forward and they will even run the offense through him in the post. Lots of spin moves, including a lethal spin where he will drive in to the basket from either baseline, spin left or right depending and get a short jumper or layup. I found this vid of him on Youtube from summer ball where he showcases the spin I'm talking about at the very end of the video.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6d9kHQLUDI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6d9kHQLUDI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

cdash
11-23-2010, 10:51 PM
5-0 :dance:

Mackey_Rose
11-30-2010, 06:30 AM
Level headed post by a rival fan. Nice to see.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Gary Harris though. I think it is either going to be Indiana or Michigan State for him. Reading some of the comments he has made recently, I think IU is the leader for his services.

I agree with Trader Joe too...I think that Purdue's dominance over IU ends with this season. Even if Hummel comes back healthy next year (big if with that kid, unfortunately), I think we will have at least pulled even with the Boilers. Another year of growth out of our current sophomores, plus the much needed frontcourt boost provided by Cody Zeller and I think we surpass Purdue.

What is the feeling within your fanbase about all this? I've read a few of the boards and it seems to be split between people saying Crean is an idiot and won't do anything with the talent and people being genuinely concerned with the stranglehold on in-state talent that IU currently possesses. From the outside, it looks like Painter missed a golden opportunity to lock some of this talent up when Indiana was down. It will always be easier to recruit kids to Indiana over Purdue (no offense), but it just seems like Painter has missed an opportunity.

It's easy for me to have a level headed about our biggest rival, because even though it is sacrilege, I'm also a casual IU fan. I still remember learning the game as a child from my grandfather, who absolutely worshiped everything Bobby Knight and Hoosier basketball. Growing up, I definitely watched far more IU games than I did Purdue games, although to be fair, the local coverage has never been close to equal. I have friends that have played down in Bloomington in the good years and recently as well.

I also am probably one of the few Boiler fans who thinks it is a good thing for Purdue Basketball if IU is a premier national program again. As far as my opinion on Crean? I think that's a wait and see for me. I don't think he is a great in-game coach, but I like the way he has used discipline to turn that program around so quickly. The best thing he has done in his time at IU was not to get Cody Zeller, or a bunch of highly ranked recruits, it was to step in and put his stamp on the program by getting rid of all the bad apples that the previous coaches had been collecting.

Personally, I just miss the rivalry when both games had a Big Ten title on the line. Purdue will never be able to compete for the same national level recruits that IU can, but I don't think they have to. There is more than enough talent within the borders of Indiana, and in the region (Purdue always does well in the Chicago area) for multiple teams to be competitive nationally.

I probably shouldn't have thrown that line about you guys needing it more in, because frankly I just don't follow recruiting enough to really know. Please don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not intending it to be personal at all, but I can't stand the way grown men get so worked up (Peegs, I'm looking at you) over the decisions of high school kids.

The way I look at it is, I'm completely happy with the program Purdue has in place. I believe we have the best coach in the state, at any level. He will get the players he wants, that he believes will buy-in to the concept he thinks is going to win at Purdue. I couldn't care any less if the various recruiting services don't think they are deserving of high ranks. As long as Painter is around, I'm confident Purdue will be competitive in the Big Ten, and have a shot to make a run in the tournament.

Trader Joe
11-30-2010, 10:23 AM
And at the very least, Purdue will always have the coach that most resembles their mascot while Painter is around ;)

jameswakefield
12-02-2010, 05:15 AM
Pretty intense but a tough match. Not much offensive teams but worth watching.

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Can't even begin to express how pissed I am that I'm having to watch the end of this stupid Tennessee/Pittsburgh game instead of the start of the IU/UK game.

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 06:36 PM
And of course Pittsburgh is fouling even though they are down by 10+...

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 06:44 PM
Well I finally get to join the IU/UK game 8 minutes in after watching the final minute and a half of this boring *** Tennessee/PITT game. Hoosiers lead by 4!

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 07:07 PM
Rebounding killing us yet again. We have plenty of perimeter talent and a very solid game plan especially defensively, but we just can't rebound. That's the bottom line.

kester99
12-11-2010, 07:12 PM
Good close-out to the half.

32-31 KU

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 07:16 PM
I don't care how bad you think Crean is on the X's and O's (which I don't think he's nearly as bad as some of you make him out to be) how can you not love the passion this guy has on the sidelines? That's what you need especially right now. He totally understands what Indiana basketball means and he's coaching IU/UK like it should be coached.

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 07:31 PM
Cristian Watford>Terrence Jones

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 07:45 PM
****ing second chance points man...damn.

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 07:51 PM
I don't think Kentucky actually has an offense.

Blink
12-11-2010, 07:52 PM
This is a great game.

Ransom
12-11-2010, 07:55 PM
Only seen a few minutes, but this IU team does not look intimidated at all on the road against these wildcats.

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 08:05 PM
****, that was a killer stretch right there. So many chances to push the lead to a two possession game then we give up the three and follow with a foul...Ugh!

Trader Joe
12-11-2010, 08:20 PM
LOL the reffing down the stretch has been so unbalanced it's not even funny.

cdash
12-12-2010, 04:35 AM
I don't think Kentucky actually has an offense.

I don't think Indiana actually has an offense...

cdash
12-12-2010, 04:37 AM
I don't care how bad you think Crean is on the X's and O's (which I don't think he's nearly as bad as some of you make him out to be) how can you not love the passion this guy has on the sidelines? That's what you need especially right now. He totally understands what Indiana basketball means and he's coaching IU/UK like it should be coached.

Meh...his X's and O's aren't great. Really makes me wonder sometimes. Taking the recruiting aspect out of it...I trust Obie more with actual coaching than I do Crean.

cdash
12-23-2010, 06:27 AM
Terrible loss tonight against an opponent that we absolutely should have beaten. There should only be one loss for this team right now (@Kentucky). This game was a big blow, and I still think we should have won the game at BC. Crean...I am not sold on this guy's coaching ability. I maintain what I said in the previous post: his X's and O's are subpar.

pacer4ever
12-23-2010, 02:05 PM
If any local folks haven't been out to Warren Central to see Davis play, make the trip. I'm not going to say the kids a sure fire star...yet. I saw him play 7 times last year. What I liked most about him was that he played well, making smart decisions in all types of situations. What I like more is that he raised his game against his toughest opponents, often dominating in games against what was supposed to be a challenge. Not super strong but VERY athletic so he gets a lot of rebounds. He might have to change up his tactics in college where pretty much every team can box out. Very smooth with the ball, has shooting guard handles even though for WC he mostly plays forward and they will even run the offense through him in the post. Lots of spin moves, including a lethal spin where he will drive in to the basket from either baseline, spin left or right depending and get a short jumper or layup. I found this vid of him on Youtube from summer ball where he showcases the spin I'm talking about at the very end of the video.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6d9kHQLUDI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6d9kHQLUDI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Ive seen Devin Play servral times we go to the same school. He is playing pretty well I just wish we had a better team he could play with. But we have good coaches who will have him ready to make the next step to collge ball.

pacer4ever
12-23-2010, 02:08 PM
Did anyone catch Trey Lyles last night. Tech was the game of the week on tv 40. He is insane for a freshman. He dribbles like a SG guard and even plays the SG some times and is 6"9 insane.

cdash
12-23-2010, 06:25 PM
Ive seen Devin Play servral times we go to the same school. He is playing pretty well I just wish we had a better team he could play with. But we have good coaches who will have him ready to make the next step to collge ball.

I went to the Cathedral/Warren Central game earlier this season. Hartman definitely looked better than Davis in that game, but you can tell the talent is there with DD.

cdash
12-23-2010, 10:45 PM
This team is too ****ing frustrating to watch. I'm telling you right now, I don't care how good of talent he brings in, Crean will never be the guy to get this program over the top. We should not have lost to either of these ****ing teams in Vegas. Pisses me the **** off.

D-BONE
12-28-2010, 09:46 AM
Penn State loss reaction?

I thought they looked like a better team, primarily due to superior length, athleticism, experience. Add to that IU's inability to defend, especially early on, and rebound.

I just don't see how IU can expect more than a few B10 wins (if that) with such a non-existent inside rotation. Indy Star reports Watford was playing with back spasms. Personally, I don't see enough improvement and desire out of him or Elston when compared against quality competition. A lot of that is on Crean's developmental work.

Also completely disagree with the amount of dribbling Jones is charged with for a guy with very iffy handles. I get that in part its a function of the offense, but it's just indefensible to me. Rivers, despite his limited offense, is the best ballhandler and smartest player on the team. Hulls is next. I'd have Rivers as a starter and the team leader along with Hulls.

cdash
12-28-2010, 07:15 PM
If Crean didn't have these super classes coming in, I think he would be feeling the heat right about now. There is only one acceptable loss on our schedule--at Kentucky. The offense is much, much worse than O'Brien's, the players have different agendas, the defensive effort is abysmal, and we are making the same mistakes we have the past two years with Crean at the helm. I don't like him.

cdash
01-09-2011, 09:43 PM
Fire him. I don't give a **** about his recruiting classes. The guy can't coach them. ****ing embarrassing. This guy is awful. I would much, MUCH rather watch a Jim O'Brien coached team than a Tom Crean coached team.

pacer4ever
01-09-2011, 10:07 PM
Fire him. I don't give a **** about his recruiting classes. The guy can't coach them. ****ing embarrassing. This guy is awful. I would much, MUCH rather watch a Jim O'Brien coached team than a Tom Crean coached team.

U really want to fire him and lose lyles,Davis,and all the other top recruits?? I doubt that will happen but it could. Wait till they get Zeller then judge.

Bball
01-09-2011, 10:11 PM
I gotta admit... I'm starting to get concerned.

Shade
01-09-2011, 10:43 PM
Wow, talk about regression. That was ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

cdash
01-09-2011, 11:14 PM
U really want to fire him and lose lyles,Davis,and all the other top recruits?? I doubt that will happen but it could. Wait till they get Zeller then judge.

It won't happen. I know this. I accept this. But IU is an extremely poorly coached team. The offense is a trainwreck, and the defense is even worse. I have seen no improvement from year to year with his teams. I'll judge by Crean's career. He went to one Final Four, with Wade. He was consistently a top 25 team, with Wade. The rest of the time, he never made it to the Sweet 16 and he never consistently fielded a top 25 team. I will go on record right now as saying this program will never make a Final Four and never win a Big Ten title with Crean at the helm. Make excuses for him all you please, but we make the same mistakes as we have his entire tenure, and there has been a general lack of progress from year to year. We get blown out a LOT, and we lose in horrible ways. Northwestern scored 93 ****ing points tonight. 93. That is not a high octane offense, it's not an overly talented offense, and he kept playing zone the entire game. Even while they were bombing threes away.

DaveP63
01-10-2011, 09:25 AM
That was a complete dumpster fire. Good God. As much as I love IU, it won't take much more of this unwatchable crap before I start rooting for the team from West Lafayette.

Bball
01-10-2011, 10:01 AM
When I first met Crean I thought 'now this is a guy who can turn this around quick'. This was not long after his hiring and before he'd ever coached a game at IU.

He sold me... But now I'm still waiting to see some substance.

Sollozzo
01-10-2011, 10:14 AM
Virtually no improvement from two years ago.

cdash
01-10-2011, 03:19 PM
When I first met Crean I thought 'now this is a guy who can turn this around quick'. This was not long after his hiring and before he'd ever coached a game at IU.

He sold me... But now I'm still waiting to see some substance.

See, that's what he does so well--he sells the program. He talks a good game, and he has certainly come on strong with recruiting after a (understandably) slow start. I was on him at the end of last year, and then during the offseason with all the recruiting success and momentum the program had, I started to forget just how agonizing his teams are to watch.

I can't see this team winning more than 3 games the rest of the season. I'm not even sure they get 3 more, but if they do, that's 12 wins. I don't expect miracles, I expect improvement. 12 wins with that creampuff non-conference schedule is not an improvement. 3 wins in conference play would actually be a step back. There's no reason for it either. Like I said, I don't expect to see the guy fired, but I want people to realize that this is not progress. This is a holding pattern.

mb221
01-10-2011, 04:49 PM
I'm just not sure who Coach Crean thinks he is fooling. Surely he must be aware that the fanbase of Indiana Basketball is easily one of the most knowledgeable in the country. I just cant get a grasp of what his offensive gameplan is. Found it funny in the Star today there was a reporter that asked Crean if he had any thoughts of running a different offense. Crean responded by saying "... you draw something up and get it over to me and I'll take a look." Thing is, the guy could probably do that and it would look better than the offense Coach Crean has IU running currently.

avoidingtheclowns
01-10-2011, 04:53 PM
I've never understood why many IU fans insist upon discussing Final Fours or championships right now. Can Tom Crean coach us to the Final Four? Sure he can, he did at Marquette so it's within the realm of possibility. Mike Davis even made a championship game so sure Crean could get IU to the Final Four. But talking about that is a lot like a theatre major saying "What if I can only win an Independent Spirit Award but never an Oscar?" before he or she scores a paid acting gig.

It's a holding pattern right now, sure, but not by design. Maurice Creek certainly isn't close to the player pre-injury yet so that's a major setback and the NCAA ruling against Guy-Marc Michel made IU's rebounding and defensive issues even easier to exploit. When Crean was hired and the program post-Sampson was gutted, I assumed nothing would really matter until after the fourth year. Right now we're halfway through his third. He has done a fantastic job recruiting - much earlier than I would have anticipated (I thought he'd have to start being competitive in the Big Ten first before top talent really considered IU an option). So I think things are looking up. Complain about his Xs and Os all you want, I'm not even going to bother judging that until years five and six.

Will Crean be the guy that pushes IU back to the Final Four? Maybe not, but it's not like anyone was consistently coaching Indiana beyond the first weekend of March Madness since the dude in cdash's avatar was drafted by the Bullets. Is Crean worse than Mike Davis? Would you rather have Crean or Sampson? A number of people wanted Mike Montgomery before Crean became IU's coach; how would IU feel about his phone plan? Many hoped Tony Bennett would be the next guy to lead the program but Bennett wasn't interested (probably because a daunting rebuilding project that likely wouldn't yield results for at least five years isn't very attractive to a coach at the infancy of his career).

Before IU could worry about Final Fours or Big Ten championships, the program had to be gutted and rebuilt. The best way to do that is with a person that excels at recruiting. It would seem at the moment Crean is doing everything that could be hoped for to create the foundation that will make IU a basketball destination school again. Once we get into years five and six, then we can talk about whether Crean's Xs and Os will get in the way of Final Fours and championships (Big Ten or otherwise) and maybe the same problems will still exist. But short of some oil-slicked Callipari magic or a mega coach like the Zen Master deciding challenge himself by heading to Bloomington, I'm not sure anyone could have made more progress during this time.

cdash
01-10-2011, 05:11 PM
By atc's logic, we shouldn't judge Jim O'Brien's Xs and Os until the fifth year either. He entered a daunting rebuilding task with the Pacers. A job that was also turned down by our top targets. The team was horrible, the talent is still subpar. Yet we are allowed to critique his Xs and Os, baffling rotations, questionable decisions, but not Crean's? The guy has been a head coach for 13 years. He's in his third year at Indiana. The guys he is playing (and losing) with are his players. Obviously, I'm not expecting to win anything or even make the postseason this year, but I think a record hovering around .500 was very, very attainable with our laugher of a non-conference schedule.

Your last sentence is beyond baffling to me. You aren't sure anyone could have made more progress during this time? What progress has there been? He's cleaned up the program, sure, but players haven't developed under him. The mistakes are the same year in and year out with these teams. This was a year I expected to start seeing results. The heralded recruiting class that are currently sophomores (Hulls, Creek, Watford, Elston) were all expected to make a big leap from year one to year two. Hulls certainly looks a lot better. Watford's numbers are better, but his defense is awful and he goes for his stats to the detriment of the team quite often. Creek has regressed in an amazing way, but I'll issue a pass there due to his injury. Elston is who he was last year. More important, the results are the same. As a team, I have seen absolutely zero progress from last year to this year. That is alarming.

D-BONE
01-11-2011, 04:51 PM
I can't see this team winning more than 3 games the rest of the season. I'm not even sure they get 3 more, but if they do, that's 12 wins. I don't expect miracles, I expect improvement. 12 wins with that creampuff non-conference schedule is not an improvement. 3 wins in conference play would actually be a step back. There's no reason for it either. Like I said, I don't expect to see the guy fired, but I want people to realize that this is not progress. This is a holding pattern.

Strangely familiar to how the IU football program tries to manufacture bowl eligibility. We know what that means.

D-BONE
01-11-2011, 04:58 PM
Agree that there's little to no observable player development. The offense is hideous to watch...not that unlike the Pacers actually.

There's also no real development from a team standpoint. I mean...these guys are in year two or three of his system. Shouldn't they at least show some sort of purpose or organization out there. All I see is a bunch of guys overdribbling around the perimeter.

Personally, I'm not even demanding B10 wins at this point. You can lose and still show signs of improvement/development individually and as a team.

Finally, Crean, please sit Watford's sad *** on the bench until he commits to working on the defensive end of the floor (including rebounding)! He's playing like a 6-9 wimp.

Bball
01-12-2011, 12:06 AM
I think the team looked better at the end of the season in Crean's first year than they have since that time. Obviously, there's more talent now but I thought by the end of that season he had them playing about as well as could be expected and they looked to be playing with a sense of purpose and discipline.

I've been surprised they didn't build on that as the talent and experience both increased.

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 01:08 AM
I think a lot of you are jumping the gun. The team was G-U-T-T-E-D. Then most of the freshman that came in Crean's first year left. Effectively this is year 1 of the rebuild. Last year was year 0. The first year was just...well it was unprecedented.

What the hell are we doing to say we expected better right now? This is a team full of sophomore without one upper classmen worth a damn or any sort of front court talent at all.

This is not a very good basketball team yet. That is the long and the short of it, but the foundation is there. You have to let it build though.

Let's not turn into Michigan football.

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 01:10 AM
I'm just not sure who Coach Crean thinks he is fooling. Surely he must be aware that the fanbase of Indiana Basketball is easily one of the most knowledgeable in the country. .

As well as the most pretentious apparently.

Everyone thinks they're the most knowledgeable fan base.

You want to ruin this program fast? You fire Crean now. Let him get that 2012 class in here and if he bombs then you go big game hunting for a big time coach with all that talent. Just like UNC did when they bagged Roy Williams.

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 10:31 AM
I think the team looked better at the end of the season in Crean's first year than they have since that time. Obviously, there's more talent now but I thought by the end of that season he had them playing about as well as could be expected and they looked to be playing with a sense of purpose and discipline.

I've been surprised they didn't build on that as the talent and experience both increased.

You mean his very first year?

Everyone freakin' left except for Pritchard and Jones when he brought in the Watford, Creek, Elston class.

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 10:48 AM
By atc's logic, we shouldn't judge Jim O'Brien's Xs and Os until the fifth year either. He entered a daunting rebuilding task with the Pacers. A job that was also turned down by our top targets. The team was horrible, the talent is still subpar. Yet we are allowed to critique his Xs and Os, baffling rotations, questionable decisions, but not Crean's? The guy has been a head coach for 13 years. He's in his third year at Indiana. The guys he is playing (and losing) with are his players. Obviously, I'm not expecting to win anything or even make the postseason this year, but I think a record hovering around .500 was very, very attainable with our laugher of a non-conference schedule.

Comparing IU's situation to anything we've ever seen before in college basketball is a complete and total stretch. To compare it to an NBA team who can't have a roster gutted like that does not even make sense.



Your last sentence is beyond baffling to me. You aren't sure anyone could have made more progress during this time? What progress has there been? He's cleaned up the program, sure, but players haven't developed under him. The mistakes are the same year in and year out with these teams. This was a year I expected to start seeing results. The heralded recruiting class that are currently sophomores (Hulls, Creek, Watford, Elston) were all expected to make a big leap from year one to year two. Hulls certainly looks a lot better. Watford's numbers are better, but his defense is awful and he goes for his stats to the detriment of the team quite often. Creek has regressed in an amazing way, but I'll issue a pass there due to his injury. Elston is who he was last year. More important, the results are the same. As a team, I have seen absolutely zero progress from last year to this year. That is alarming.

I think we've seen decided improvement in Hulls.

Elston as well is making much quicker decisions than he did last year and is playing with more aggression.

Watford has improved and regressed at the same time. His offense is superior particularly in the post, his defensive failures are largely due in part to the lack of a true big body next to him IMO.

Creek will never be the same player again after his injury or at least he won't be this year, I have accepted that.

We just need a bit more patience, we're not even three full years through this process.

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Also, this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8hdKnr7rpE

cdash
01-12-2011, 04:21 PM
I think a lot of you are jumping the gun. The team was G-U-T-T-E-D. Then most of the freshman that came in Crean's first year left. Effectively this is year 1 of the rebuild. Last year was year 0. The first year was just...well it was unprecedented.

What the hell are we doing to say we expected better right now? This is a team full of sophomore without one upper classmen worth a damn or any sort of front court talent at all.

This is not a very good basketball team yet. That is the long and the short of it, but the foundation is there. You have to let it build though.

Let's not turn into Michigan football.

All the apologists say the same thing about the team being gutted. Trust me, I'm well aware of the situation he walked into. Tabor and Finkelmeier were the only returning players, and neither of them was worth their weight in salt. I get that, I really do. I don't buy that "this is really year 1" crap. Year 1 was year 1. His situation sucked, but he is playing with his own players. He recruited all these guys in one form or another. The fact that they don't fit his system is odd, because he knew his system and he knew the players when he recruited them.

You are right: it isn't a very good basketball team. We all realize there are serious holes in our virtually non-existent frontcourt and we don't have a point guard who has the ability to create for himself, which is a huge problem in the dribble drive offense.

I want to know, what is the foundation? These guys who you yourself said aren't very good? Is Crean himself the foundation? The recruiting classes coming in?

Obviously, when I said fire Crean above, I didn't mean now, today. It was a post I made when I was pissed off during the game, when we all know hyperbole rules. I posted in another thread that I think it would be incredibly short sighted and it would do the program no favors if it fired him now, and I fully anticipate on seeing him make it to Year 5 regardless of the outcome of this year and next.

cdash
01-12-2011, 04:23 PM
You want to ruin this program fast? You fire Crean now. Let him get that 2012 class in here and if he bombs then you go big game hunting for a big time coach with all that talent. Just like UNC did when they bagged Roy Williams.

Which is exactly how I expect this to play out.

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Which is exactly how I expect this to play out.

So then what are you so depressed about? We have to ride this out til at least 2012 and get Parea, Yogi and hopefully Gary Harris in here.

THAT'S when you decide if Crean's your guy and if you not go out to try and bring someone in who is big time somewhere else and wants to coach IU with all that talent.

cdash
01-12-2011, 04:29 PM
Comparing IU's situation to anything we've ever seen before in college basketball is a complete and total stretch. To compare it to an NBA team who can't have a roster gutted like that does not even make sense.



I think we've seen decided improvement in Hulls.

Elston as well is making much quicker decisions than he did last year and is playing with more aggression.

Watford has improved and regressed at the same time. His offense is superior particularly in the post, his defensive failures are largely due in part to the lack of a true big body next to him IMO.

Creek will never be the same player again after his injury or at least he won't be this year, I have accepted that.

We just need a bit more patience, we're not even three full years through this process.

It was a general comparison. I didn't get that deep into the situations. I just think it's incredibly idiotic that we supposedly can't judge Crean's coaching, you know, since he hasn't been a head coach for 13 years with "meh" results, even when his rosters weren't gutted.

I understand patience, I really do. I also want to be rewarded for my patience by seeing growth and progress. While I agree mainly with what you were saying about the individual improvements (however incremental they may be), the results are the same. We will end up with barely more wins than we did last year, quite possibly with fewer Big Ten wins than we had last year. Everyone and their brother (including you, I suspect) picked the Hoosiers to win somewhere between 14-18 games this season. Why aren't they there? Why are we still seeing the same mistakes that we saw in his first and second seasons? Why are we still routinely getting the crap beaten out of us by opponents with similar talent?

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 04:29 PM
All the apologists say the same thing about the team being gutted. Trust me, I'm well aware of the situation he walked into. Tabor and Finkelmeier were the only returning players, and neither of them was worth their weight in salt. I get that, I really do. I don't buy that "this is really year 1" crap. Year 1 was year 1. His situation sucked, but he is playing with his own players. He recruited all these guys in one form or another. The fact that they don't fit his system is odd, because he knew his system and he knew the players when he recruited them.

You are right: it isn't a very good basketball team. We all realize there are serious holes in our virtually non-existent frontcourt and we don't have a point guard who has the ability to create for himself, which is a huge problem in the dribble drive offense.

I want to know, what is the foundation? These guys who you yourself said aren't very good? Is Crean himself the foundation? The recruiting classes coming in?

Obviously, when I said fire Crean above, I didn't mean now, today. It was a post I made when I was pissed off during the game, when we all know hyperbole rules. I posted in another thread that I think it would be incredibly short sighted and it would do the program no favors if it fired him now, and I fully anticipate on seeing him make it to Year 5 regardless of the outcome of this year and next.

Hulls can be a solid hold the line PG.

Watford can be a very good player.

Elston can be a great dirty work player.

Creek, if he ever heals, can be a good shooter, but like all major knee injuries it's probably going to take til at least next fall.

Finally, there is Oladipo and Sheehey, when I see Oladipo, I see a classic Tom Izzo/Mich St. type player and with Sheehey I see a great 4 year swing man.

I think that's a decent foundation all things considered. Just because they aren't very good right now, doesn't mean they won't get better. JMO tho

cdash
01-12-2011, 04:34 PM
So then what are you so depressed about? We have to ride this out til at least 2012 and get Parea, Yogi and hopefully Gary Harris in here.

THAT'S when you decide if Crean's your guy and if you not go out to try and bring someone in who is big time somewhere else and wants to coach IU with all that talent.

I'm depressed because I thought when those guys got here, and by their second season on campus, that we would be ready to compete for Big Ten titles and make deep tournament runs. In Year 6 of a rebuild, with that kind of talent, I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.

Now? I think that class will get us back to the tournament, and flame out in the second round like most Crean-coached teams. I just don't think he is a very good coach. I see a lot of limitations in him. The offense, regardless of personnel, is horrid. His defense is horrid, and he is slow to make adjustments to his schemes. But lord knows that he will yank around his players with hockey-like substitutions. I don't really blame him for this that much, but he has a different starting lineup every game. Again, I understand the need for that, but he needs to adjust his system to the personnel. They can't run the dribble drive. Verdell is a turnover machine and Hulls simply doesn't have the physical tools to create for himself.

cdash
01-12-2011, 04:37 PM
Hulls can be a solid hold the line PG.

Watford can be a very good player.

Elston can be a great dirty work player.

Creek, if he ever heals, can be a good shooter, but like all major knee injuries it's probably going to take til at least next fall.

Finally, there is Oladipo and Sheehey, when I see Oladipo, I see a classic Tom Izzo/Mich St. type player and with Sheehey I see a great 4 year swing man.

I think that's a decent foundation all things considered. Just because they aren't very good right now, doesn't mean they won't get better. JMO tho

I'll exclude Oladipo and Sheehey from this, since they are freshmen.

In college basketball, aren't you supposed to make your biggest jump between your freshman and sophomore seasons? I thought all these guys would have progressed, and the team would benefit from it. They maybe have in small ways, but the team is certainly no better off. Looking at the micro, you can see improvements in most of those guys. Looking at the macro, the results are the same. Why?

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 04:49 PM
Maybe, I'm just saying I think we have to wait til the end of next year to really know anything that's 4 years. And if by then it looks like Crean doesn't have it together, then the 2012 class spends one year with him and then we go looking for a guy like Roy Williams when he was at Kansas.

cdash
01-12-2011, 04:53 PM
Maybe, I'm just saying I think we have to wait til the end of next year to really know anything that's 4 years. And if by then it looks like Crean doesn't have it together, then the 2012 class spends one year with him and then we go looking for a guy like Roy Williams when he was at Kansas.

I don't think we could get a guy like Roy Williams, but I think that is how it is going to play out. He underwhelms this season and next season, but we give him Year 5 and the 2012 kids and see what he can do. With that mix of talent and veteran leadership, that team should be a top 15 team, assuming we get the guys we are supposed to get and no one defects early from the Hulls/Watford/Creek/Elston quartet.

Trader Joe
01-12-2011, 05:06 PM
I agree with the assessment of what that team should be.

I don't know why we couldn't get a guy like Williams. UNC was in a mire just like we were until they got him. What brought him in was the Felton/May/McCants class.

Why can't 2012 be that sort of class for us if we add Harris? PG/Big man/Wing

cdash
01-12-2011, 05:20 PM
I agree with the assessment of what that team should be.

I don't know why we couldn't get a guy like Williams. UNC was in a mire just like we were until they got him. What brought him in was the Felton/May/McCants class.

Why can't 2012 be that sort of class for us if we add Harris? PG/Big man/Wing

Well, he was a UNC alum, I think that's what did it. Dean Smith, his mentor, called and personally implored him to take the job. We don't have anything like that here. Otherwise, I agree with your assessment. With Harris, that 2012 class would be the framework of a national title contender. I really believe that.

hoops_guy
01-14-2011, 05:18 PM
..Perhaps this can help a little bit in our time of despair.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H8hdKnr7rpE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H8hdKnr7rpE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Shade
01-15-2011, 07:21 PM
Very important game tonight. Need to get the dub.

Shade
01-15-2011, 09:57 PM
IU up 30-15 at the half! :eek:

Shade
01-15-2011, 11:20 PM
Finally! A win! :yay:

Heisenberg
01-16-2011, 01:05 AM
I don't know how current they are, but there's some coaching clinics with Crean notes (and a bunch of other cool stuff) here (http://www.svalley.k12.in.us/ActivitySites/boysVarsityBasketball/coachescorner/index.htm). Thought some of you may find it interesting.

Trader Joe
01-16-2011, 03:39 AM
It's good to know, that no matter what, we will always own Michigan.

D-BONE
01-16-2011, 08:48 AM
Guess I'll just enjoy it b/c I don't think there will be many more to come.

cdash
01-16-2011, 01:03 PM
We needed that one, big time. Great to finally get another win.

DaveP63
01-16-2011, 02:18 PM
That was the best game they've played for months.

Trader Joe
01-16-2011, 02:52 PM
A little unfortunate that we have to go straight into Wisconsin and play in front of the Grateful Red, but we need to keep the effort up and hopefully play a good game against Wisconsin and keep up the confidence because we have a game that we have no excuses for losing right after that against Iowa.

cdash
01-16-2011, 05:47 PM
I'll be happy with a tough effort at Wisconsin. I don't expect to win there, but I don't expect to get clobbered either.

Trader Joe
01-16-2011, 06:13 PM
I honestly can't remember the last time we won at Wisconsin...Bracey Wright's freshman year? I dunno, it's been a long time.

D-BONE
01-16-2011, 09:01 PM
Well, if we can manage to play well even if a loss at UW, it would be the first time in the B10 we'd have put together two consecutive good performances. And, as mentioned, perhaps the first time in some time. Hope that's what happens.

cdash
01-17-2011, 10:33 PM
Mo Creek out indefinitely. Great. Now Crean has an excuse.

Trader Joe
01-17-2011, 11:47 PM
Please, Creek with another stress fracture in his opposite knee.

There are more important things to do here besides ***** about Crean.

Mackey_Rose
01-18-2011, 07:34 AM
Sorry to hear about Maurice Creek. These kind of injuries really aren't fair.

I hope the best for his eventual recovery. He looked like he was really going to be a good player last season before the first injury.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 09:57 AM
Sad part is, no one saw this coming. He went down grabbing the knee against Mich. then walked off and was walking along the bench. It honestly just looked like he had gotten scared.

I thought he could be as good as E. Moore when I first saw him last year, but now, well I just hope that maybe he can become a decent scoring threat off the bench.

Such a damn shame.

Kegboy
01-18-2011, 11:13 AM
Sorry guys. Between the Colts and Purdue, I've seen enough injuries this year to last a lifetime.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 12:37 PM
Not going to lie that this news has pretty much depressed my morning.

Not a huge deal this season, but I actually think it's a bigger deal next year and then what would have been Creek's senior year (the year the 2012 class comes in), adding Gary Harris to that class now becomes even more important.

Bball
01-18-2011, 01:15 PM
Well, now it really looks like this year should've been a red-shirt for Creek. I guess the injury was to the other knee but when you consider he never really looked like he was 100% this year and now is out again anyway, hindsight says redshirting would've been a fine idea.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 01:49 PM
Maybe, but would Creek have gone for that?

cdash
01-18-2011, 03:40 PM
Please, Creek with another stress fracture in his opposite knee.

There are more important things to do here besides ***** about Crean.

Oh get off your high horse. I'd love to hear all these important things that I could have accomplished in the 2 seconds it took me to take that potshot at Crean.

cdash
01-18-2011, 03:43 PM
Sad part is, no one saw this coming. He went down grabbing the knee against Mich. then walked off and was walking along the bench. It honestly just looked like he had gotten scared.

I thought he could be as good as E. Moore when I first saw him last year, but now, well I just hope that maybe he can become a decent scoring threat off the bench.

Such a damn shame.

No one saw this coming? What? Everyone I talk to saw this coming from a mile away. Any time a guy moves that gingerly on his legs, you expect the worse. Everytime he went up, you knew it was a possiblity that something like this could happen. Even after he got up and walked off, I still figured he was going to miss a chunk of games at the very least, if only for precautionary purposes.

It's terrible news, I feel awful for him. He seems to be a great kid, much like Hummel, with rotten luck. His legs are awfully skinny, it makes you wonder if when he does come back, he should try to add more strength to his base.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 04:19 PM
You're right we should just fire Tom Crean now before he has a chance to blame this season Maurice Creek's knee.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 04:21 PM
And clearly everyone expected a stress fracture in his knee cap after he walked off the court, walked around the bench, and kept letting him try and walk it off for the rest of time that was left on the clock.

That's why they let him walk around like that, they said hey we can tell you already have a stress fracture might as well put more weight on it!

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 05:02 PM
In other news, Armon Bassett was arrested today...shocker.

Bball
01-18-2011, 05:33 PM
Maybe, but would Creek have gone for that?

With hindsight I'm sure he would've! ;)

cdash
01-18-2011, 05:51 PM
You're right we should just fire Tom Crean now before he has a chance to blame this season Maurice Creek's knee.

That is exactly what I said. Well done. You know how many important things you could have done in the 8 seconds it took you to manipulate what I said and type that retort? :D

cdash
01-18-2011, 05:55 PM
And clearly everyone expected a stress fracture in his knee cap after he walked off the court, walked around the bench, and kept letting him try and walk it off for the rest of time that was left on the clock.

That's why they let him walk around like that, they said hey we can tell you already have a stress fracture might as well put more weight on it!

It's not like he was hopping around and jumping on it. He was gingerly walking around. Obviously, if he had blown out an ACL, he wouldn't have been able to walk around at all, so that was the good sign with his walking. But I've strolled around for days with a stress fracture in my foot before going to the doctor about it. I'm no medical professional, but I knew just because he was walking around didn't mean he was fine. Had he come back in the game, then I probably would have assumed he was fine.

Trader Joe
01-18-2011, 10:36 PM
Oh well, just a depressing day all around. Sorry if I came off short earlier.

cdash
01-18-2011, 10:41 PM
Oh well, just a depressing day all around. Sorry if I came off short earlier.

:laugh:

It's cool. I am pretty frisky today as well.

cdash
01-21-2011, 12:47 AM
I'm happy with that effort. Close throughout, we just need to learn how to finish games. We start panicking and take crappy shots when we are down by 6 or 7 with a few minutes left. Offense looked much more fluid, Hulls is getting more and more confident, the defense wasn't bad (Wisconsin made a lot of BS shots), all in all, a good effort.

Trader Joe
01-21-2011, 09:31 AM
I'll take that sort of game against Wisconsin on the road from a bunch of sophomores.

We were really just missing a guy that can always get a bucket.

Zeller will hopefully help to rectify that as well.

Have to, and I mean have to go beat Iowa now. No excuses. For Mo!

Trader Joe
01-21-2011, 10:06 AM
Also, a stat I saw that had me mildly encouraged, is that we are second in the Big Ten in FG% at like 49% before last nights game and we shot at 51% last night. We just need to increase our efficiency on defense and cut back on some turnovers and I think we could surprise a couple teams in the 2nd half of the season, but have to start with that Iowa game. I can't stress it enough. No excuses for losing that one.

Bball
01-23-2011, 06:07 PM
Wow... I got caught up in the NFL and finally decided I better switch over to the Big Ten Network to see how IU was doing. With under 5 mins remaining it was a 20 point lead for Iowa! :eek:

I certainly thought losing was a possibility but I expected it to be close.

Jones was in street clothes/sweats... what was up there?

cdash
01-23-2011, 06:13 PM
Jones has inflammation in his knee. Bad news.

Still, even without Jones, this was a poor performance. Jones is really key for our team, he's the only wing who can create offense for himself. Without him, we are in trouble.

Shade
01-23-2011, 07:02 PM
:giveup:

Trader Joe
01-23-2011, 07:09 PM
No Jones, no Creek. What can you even expect?

Might as well put this season in the dump and start asking Cody which number he would like next year.

Shade
01-23-2011, 09:19 PM
We may very well not win another game this season.

DaveP63
01-24-2011, 09:23 AM
I watched. I can't believe there's such a talent gap. It's painful.

cdash
01-24-2011, 10:25 AM
Yeah, IU basketball is no longer appointment TV for me. Too painful and frustrating to go out of my way to watch. Hopefully next year everyone is healthy and Zeller can help us improve big time.

BRushWithDeath
01-24-2011, 11:06 AM
The injuries are tough but giving up 90+ to Iowa? Iowa?!?!? Disgraceful.

Trader Joe
01-24-2011, 12:51 PM
I just think this team is really mentally beat down. They are young and still have not learned to be mentally tough and seeing Creek go down twice in two years has to be taxing. Then you lose Verdell within the next week, tough to see them handling that well. Now we're asking Matt Roth to defend shooting guards and he hasn't seen extended playing time in almost 18 months.

cdash
01-24-2011, 02:58 PM
Verdell is a bigger loss than Creek IMO. He is the only guy with a developed midrange game who can create offense on his own. How much time is he expected to miss?

Trader Joe
01-24-2011, 03:02 PM
Agreed, it finally looked against Wisco like Verdell was getting into a groove to. I've heard it could be a month or more for Verdell, but not a good time table. A month is basically our season though at this point.

cdash
01-24-2011, 03:14 PM
Agreed, it finally looked against Wisco like Verdell was getting into a groove to. I've heard it could be a month or more for Verdell, but not a good time table. A month is basically our season though at this point.

Gosh I don't know what Indiana basketball did to deserve all this bad karma we have, but it is getting old. We just cannot catch a break.

Mackey_Rose
01-24-2011, 08:55 PM
Gosh I don't know what Indiana basketball did to deserve all this bad karma we have, but it is getting old. We just cannot catch a break.

1) You fired one of the greatest coaches of all-time.

2) You hired a guy who had no business being a Big Ten coach to replace him.

3) You fired that guy and hired a known cheater.

4) Surprise! He cheated and the whole program had to be blown up.

5) Injuries happen to everybody. You deal with it.

Trader Joe
01-24-2011, 10:17 PM
The program was already in trouble a bit before firing Knight, while I definitely don't agree with the way it was handled, I don't think that decision doomed us or anything like that.

Trader Joe
01-24-2011, 10:19 PM
To expand, the big problem was the way it was handled. It neutered our ability to go get a superstar coach because
1.) it took place right before the season started
and 2.) it completely killed all big time coach's confidence that they would have full support of the program.

That being said Davis was an OK coach, but definitely was in over his head the first few years when it came to recruiting. By the time he almost hit a home run (DJ White, Josh Smith class) Smith bailed to the NBA and White was left with some really questionable upper classmen talent.

Sampson was a bit of a head scratcher and obviously a major dice roll.

You can argue that Crean is almost the exact opposite of that. A guy who will get you back to being competitive, re-establish IU and remind young recruits about the tradition, then after 6-7 years of that, you go looking for a ringer.

cdash
01-24-2011, 11:05 PM
1) You fired one of the greatest coaches of all-time.

2) You hired a guy who had no business being a Big Ten coach to replace him.

3) You fired that guy and hired a known cheater.

4) Surprise! He cheated and the whole program had to be blown up.

5) Injuries happen to everybody. You deal with it.

Oh. So that's what happened?

Since86
01-25-2011, 04:52 PM
To say Davis was in over his head was an understatement.

The guy sent a recruiting packet for another player to Mike Conley, all while he wasn't recruiting Conley! Oden told him they were a package deal, and he still didn't warm up to the idea of Mike Jr.......

(I heard some of the story straight out of Greg's mouth btw)

You can disagree with way Knight went out, but the next 6 years were a trainwreck caused directly by the ineptness of the Athletic Department.

Who in their right mind thought Sampson was going to work out? He left Oklahoma with recruiting violations......

That doesn't even stratch the surface of all the high "character" players Sampson brought in.

Trader Joe
01-25-2011, 04:55 PM
I've heard that story too, Since. The Conley/Oden mis-handling is inexcusable. As was his lack of commitment towards EJ.

And that was sort of the point I was trying to make, the Knight firing might have been mishandled, but the next 6 years just snow balled into a disaster.

pwee31
01-28-2011, 12:09 AM
Hoosiers over the Illini! Woohoo!

Trader Joe
01-28-2011, 12:36 AM
THE REAL ASSEMBLY HALL

Trader Joe
01-28-2011, 12:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoH54tXSSnk&feature=youtu.be

Watch the video, Tom Crean in the lobby of Assembly Hall immediately after the IU game tonight.

cdash
01-28-2011, 02:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoH54tXSSnk&feature=youtu.be

Watch the video, Tom Crean in the lobby of Assembly Hall immediately after the IU game tonight.

I swear to God...I cried. It's been way too long. It just makes me so happy. I know, I know. Act like you've been there before, but my god it's been so long and so frustrating. It's nice to get a win like that and it's so refreshing to see that it meant just as much to Crean as it did for us.

DaveP63
01-28-2011, 11:24 AM
That doesn't even stratch the surface of all the high "character" players Sampson brought in.

One of which was just recently arrested in Terre Haute for posession of a bunch of pot...But I dirgress, great win! I don't think you can question whether or not Crean "gets it".

Trader Joe
01-28-2011, 03:57 PM
That video of Crean will be on PTI today apparently.

Foul on Smits
01-29-2011, 02:55 AM
Cant wait for this program to win there 1st National Title.

Wait what? They've won 5?

:rolleyes:

cdash
01-29-2011, 04:22 PM
Cant wait for this program to win there 1st National Title.

Wait what? They've won 5?

:rolleyes:

Uhhh....good one?

Sandman21
01-30-2011, 12:50 AM
This is pretty good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8hdKnr7rpE&feature=player_embedded#

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 01:42 AM
I'm pretty sure that's the 3rd time that video has made it into this thread.

Sandman21
01-30-2011, 01:46 AM
Doh!

hoosierguy
01-30-2011, 04:15 PM
1) You fired one of the greatest coaches of all-time.

2) You hired a guy who had no business being a Big Ten coach to replace him.

3) You fired that guy and hired a known cheater.

4) Surprise! He cheated and the whole program had to be blown up.

5) Injuries happen to everybody. You deal with it.


1. Knight deserved to be fired.

2. Davis went 9-2 against Purdue- what does that say about how absolutely AWFUL Purdue was in the first half of the decade?

3. Excessive phone calls. Big deal. Jim Calhoun did the same thing at UConn and got a slap on the wrist.

4. See above.

Oh and after this season Purdue will go back to being the red-headed step child. Your program has plateaued while IU is a shooting star. Get used to it.

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 07:23 PM
HOW 'BOUT THEM HOOSIERS

kester99
01-30-2011, 07:39 PM
HOW 'BOUT THEM HOOSIERS

Can't see the game. How they doing?

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 07:56 PM
Up 3 at half. Lead by as much as 12. 43-40.

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 08:19 PM
Oh come on did we just lose Watford to a knee injury too? This is getting to be ****ing ridiculous.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 09:24 PM
HA! iu sucks! ...and so does MSU!

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 09:31 PM
HA! iu sucks! ...and so does MSU!

Yeah I can't hear you through our 5 national championship banners and I'm pretty sure MSU's 2 do a pretty good job cancelling out your noise.

Please win even one and then you can talk to the big boys.

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 09:31 PM
OT Score IU 4 Refs 3 MSU 2

Shade
01-30-2011, 09:36 PM
Well...that sucked.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 09:37 PM
Yeah I can't hear you through our 5 national championship banners and I'm pretty sure MSU's 2 do a pretty good job cancelling out your noise.

Please win even one and then you can talk to the big boys.

Ha I'm just teasing, but I'm pretty happy with my Boilermakers. Of course I would love some banners, but if I could have one or the other, I would rather be winning in the present. If we had 5 banners and were not winning, I would not be happy. I am happy winning now though.

cdash
01-30-2011, 09:52 PM
Ha I'm just teasing, but I'm pretty happy with my Boilermakers. Of course I would love some banners, but if I could have one or the other, I would rather be winning in the present. If we had 5 banners and were not winning, I would not be happy. I am happy winning now though.

Enjoy it while you can. We are rising, and your recruiting isn't up to par. In two years, order will be restored.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 10:00 PM
Our recruiting hasn't been as good as yours. Difference is we have a coach that gets more out of less, and yours gets less out of more. I am enjoying though.

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 10:18 PM
Our recruiting hasn't been as good as yours. Difference is we have a coach that gets more out of less, and yours gets less out of more. I am enjoying though.

Yeah ok. Anyone who honestly thinks Painter has been getting more out of less the past 4 years is full of bologna.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 10:30 PM
What I meant was Painter makes his guys better. Don't see that down sounth. Point is Painter is a much better coach, and we are a much better team right now. You guys might have been better in the past, we're better now.

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 10:39 PM
Why is Painter a better coach than Crean? What has he accomplished that Crean hasn't?

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 10:51 PM
There really is no point in arguing anything PU/iu so I'm done after this. Crean has the FF run with Wade, but I don't see how you can argue Crean is better than Painter. I'm just going to keep enjoying winning THIS season.

Trader Joe
01-30-2011, 11:03 PM
Ok, that's great. Thanks for the convincing argument.

ECKrueger
01-30-2011, 11:05 PM
Well I am pretty sure we can at least agree that there is no way I will change your mind.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 12:33 AM
Well unlike you I think they are both solid coaches.

ECKrueger
01-31-2011, 01:09 AM
Most likely we both over-rate our team's coach and under-rate the rival's at least to a small degree. Which coach would you rather have?

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 09:46 AM
Right now I'd have to say Crean. He has completely dominated in state recruiting since he got here.

Painter is a fine coach though and Purdue is lucky to have him.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 11:13 AM
Also, I'd love to know how Crean has under achieved with more talent since getting to IU.

cdash
01-31-2011, 02:55 PM
Most likely we both over-rate our team's coach and under-rate the rival's at least to a small degree. Which coach would you rather have?

Crean for recruiting and program building, Painter for the in-game X's and O's.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 03:07 PM
I'd like to see Painter win something before I even say he is clearly a better in game coach than Crean.

I like the guy, but he hasn't really proven anything yet.

He got a class in Hummel, Moore, and Johnson. Those three guys were all border line 5 stars and probably would have been in today's Indiana high school recruiting scene now that everyone has accepted how deep our talent pool is.

Crean (Dwyane Wade or not) took a team to the Final Four. And let's give Crean some credit for finding Wade and sticking with him (academically ineligible his first year on campus and only a 3 or low 4 star recruit to begin with)

cdash
01-31-2011, 03:13 PM
I'd like to see Painter win something before I even say he is clearly a better in game coach than Crean.

I like the guy, but he hasn't really proven anything yet.

He got a class in Hummel, Moore, and Johnson. Those three guys were all border line 5 stars and probably would have been in today's Indiana high school recruiting scene now that everyone has accepted how deep our talent pool is.

Crean (Dwyane Wade or not) took a team to the Final Four. And let's give Crean some credit for finding Wade and sticking with him (academically ineligible his first year on campus and only a 3 or low 4 star recruit to begin with)

They were not borderline 5 stars. If I remember correctly, they were all in middle of the pack 4 star guys. Nationally ranked in the 50-100 range.

I think you should take a step back. The Indiana high school recruiting scene has always been a big deal and highly respected. Nothing has changed at all from 4 years ago when those guys were recruited.

I give Painter credit because when I watch Purdue I see a well functioning team who plays hard and makes good adjustments. I see improvement out of their players from year to year (Johnson especially has made huge strides in his 4 years in West Lafayette).

Up until the past few games, I haven't seen that out of Crean. I think they are both good coaches, but just based off what I have seen, I think Painter is probably the better in game coach. Who knows, Purdue could be a Final Four team this year. I doubt it, but besides that curb stomping in Columbus, they have played pretty well.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 03:45 PM
If you remember that class had 4 guys, ironically, the highest ranked one (Scott Martin I think was his name), is the one that transferred to Valpo.

Those guys got dogged on the national recruiting scene for different reasons.

1.) Hummel and Matin- Played in the boon docks on the same team and never got the individual credit they deserved.
2.) Johnson- Was seen as a raw project, which he was, but for some reason didn't get the potential bump so many other projects get. IMO this was because of **** poor guard play on his Franklin Central team.
3.) Moore- IMO he was clearly a 5 star talent, but I do think the talent evaluators had a tough time giving two shooting guards from Indiana 5 star talent ratings.

Scout and Rivals and other sites definitely think about how many 5 star ratings they give to a certain state, and Indiana was still viewed as a "very good" but not great recruiting state. They only give out about 20-25 five star ranking a year, so IMO if you're a top 50 recruit you're a border line 5 star player, and I think the only guy who wasn't top 50 was Hummel, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I'd need to go check.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 03:47 PM
And I'm not taking away credit from Painter, I just think you've been overly harsh on Crean so far this year. There's only so much you can do on the floor when you have Tom "I should be playing for Butler's bench" Pritchard starting at center. I don't think Cody Zeller's arrival and subsequent replacement of Pritchard can be overstated at this point.

cdash
01-31-2011, 03:52 PM
If you remember that class had 4 guys, ironically, the highest ranked one (Scott Martin I think was his name), is the one that transferred to Valpo.

Those guys got dogged on the national recruiting scene for different reasons.

1.) Hummel- Played in the boon docks and never got the credit he deserved.
2.) Johnson- Was seen as a raw project, which he was, but for some reason didn't get the potential bump so many other projects get. IMO this was because of **** poor guard play on his Franklin Central team.
3.) Moore- IMO he was clearly a 5 star talent, but I do think the talent evaluators had a tough time giving two shooting guards from Indiana 5 star talent ratings.

Scout and Rivals and other sites definitely think about how many 5 star ratings they give to a certain state, and Indiana was still viewed as a "very good" but not great recruiting state. They only give out about 20-25 five star ranking a year, so IMO if you're a top 50 recruit you're a border line 5 star player, and I think the only guy who wasn't top 50 was Hummel, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I'd need to go check.

Hummel and Martin went to the same high school. They both went to Valparaiso. Not really the boondocks.

I'll just go ahead and say that I disagree with your last paragraph.

Rankings for those guys:
#35 E'Twaun Moore
#42 JaJuan Johnson
#75 Robbie Hummel
#76 Scott Martin

So they were a lot higher than I thought. The last 5 star guy was #28, so it's fair to say that Moore was a borderline 5 star guy, and Johnson not too far behind. I got these rankings from Rivals.

cdash
01-31-2011, 03:56 PM
And I'm not taking away credit from Painter, I just think you've been overly harsh on Crean so far this year. There's only so much you can do on the floor when you have Tom "I should be playing for Butler's bench" Pritchard starting at center. I don't think Cody Zeller's arrival and subsequent replacement of Pritchard can be overstated at this point.

I'm not criticizing Crean at all here, it's more of me giving praise to Painter. I think he's a really good coach.

I won't say a word bad about Crean because the past few games he has done a great job, especially considering the injuries we have sustained. The offense is moving and looks better, the defense is still a work in progress, but it's been better. The guys aren't making dumb fouls so much and are learning how to play at the end of games. That's all I want. This is progress, finally. I don't know what has changed or why it has changed, but I have no problem at all with the team that is on the floor now. For the record, I agree that Zeller's inside presence and rebounding ability alone will be a huge boon to this team. Not to mention, the Big Ten will be much weaker next year. All we lose is Jeremiah Rivers (who I love, by the way). We should be middle of the pack in the Big Ten at the very least next season.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 03:56 PM
I usually use Scout.

They had Martin as the 4th best small forward in that class. Moore as the 8th best 2 guard. Hummel as the 12th best SF, and Johnson as the 11th best PF.

And IMO in terms of competition, Valpo is the boondocks and it certainly hurt their ranks. A guy like Eric Gordon is very, very good, but he got a huge boost from playing in Indianapolis.

cdash
01-31-2011, 03:57 PM
I usually use Scout.

They had Martin as the 4th best small forward in that class. Moore as the 8th best 2 guard. Hummel as the 12th best SF, and Johnson as the 11th best PF.

And IMO in terms of competition, Valpo is the boondocks and it certainly hurt their ranks. A guy like Eric Gordon is very, very good, but he got a huge boost from playing in Indianapolis.

Ehhh...maybe. Valpo is really close to Chicago, and from my understanding is considered part of "the region". It might be slightly off the grid, but I don't think it's the boondocks.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 03:58 PM
I'm not criticizing Crean at all here, it's more of me giving praise to Painter. I think he's a really good coach.

I won't say a word bad about Crean because the past few games he has done a great job, especially considering the injuries we have sustained. The offense is moving and looks better, the defense is still a work in progress, but it's been better. The guys aren't making dumb fouls so much and are learning how to play at the end of games. That's all I want. This is progress, finally. I don't know what has changed or why it has changed, but I have no problem at all with the team that is on the floor now. For the record, I agree that Zeller's inside presence and rebounding ability alone will be a huge boon to this team. Not to mention, the Big Ten will be much weaker next year. All we lose is Jeremiah Rivers (who I love, by the way). We should be middle of the pack in the Big Ten at the very least next season.


Rivers is a lot more palatable to me this season than last. Those his free throws last night were absolutely killer to our chances. And I could tell he knew it and I felt bad for him when I saw Crean embracing him after the game as Rivers had his head on Crean's shoulder. This team wants it, and they need to respond Minnesota and Iowa at home are winnable games.

Verdell may be back as well supposedly, but we can't let his arrival hurt the movement of the offense. He has tendency to stall it with the ball in his hands. I feel like Hulls needs to have the ball in his hands as much as possible because he has made such an incredible leap that even I am shocked, and I think you know how much I like Hulls.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 03:59 PM
Ehhh...maybe. Valpo is really close to Chicago, and from my understanding is considered part of "the region". It might be slightly off the grid, but I don't think it's the boondocks.

I just think Indiana high school basketball up north is not as highly respected as central/southern Indiana.

cdash
01-31-2011, 04:15 PM
Rivers is a lot more palatable to me this season than last. Those his free throws last night were absolutely killer to our chances. And I could tell he knew it and I felt bad for him when I saw Crean embracing him after the game as Rivers had his head on Crean's shoulder. This team wants it, and they need to respond Minnesota and Iowa at home are winnable games.

Verdell may be back as well supposedly, but we can't let his arrival hurt the movement of the offense. He has tendency to stall it with the ball in his hands. I feel like Hulls needs to have the ball in his hands as much as possible because he has made such an incredible leap that even I am shocked, and I think you know how much I like Hulls.

Yeah those missed FTs were killer. I felt bad for him. I'm a little perplexed as to why he wasn't assigned to Kalin Lucas the entire game. Lucas was eating Hulls alive, why wasn't Rivers on him the whole time?

I hope Verdell is back, but I do fear he hurts the movement on offense. I actually really like Hulls and Rivers doing the lion's share of the ball handling. Rivers has the ability to penetrate the defense and get into the lane, but he is such a lousy finisher that it makes the skill moot.

I'm right there with you on Hulls. I love that kid. He's such a smart player. You can tell he's kind of turning into the leader that we always thought he was going to be too. I am salivating at the thought of him being a senior with Watford, Zeller, the entire 2012 class, and Creek if he can ever get healthy. That is going to be a scary team for opponents.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 04:21 PM
The move and finish Hulls had over Lucas with the shot clock expiring was one of the more impressive plays we've seen from a Hoosier in some time.

He's just so slick with the ball. Ball handling and passing, it looks like an extension of his body.

Hulls is going to struggle defensively against a team like MSU, athletes and size at every position. I don't think there was much of a choice on where to hide him. Hindsight being 20/20, you absolutely throw Rivers on Lucas for the whole game, but I think they just knew they had to hope Hulls wouldn't get beat up on too badly.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 04:23 PM
Plus he's developed a buttery mid range J off pick and rolls that is Steve Alford-esque we need to get him that look more often if we can. It should be one of our back up plays we go into with <15 seconds on the shot clock when we reset our offense.

cdash
01-31-2011, 04:38 PM
Did you see that bounce pass he made in the first half to a rolling Tom Pritchard? Holy crap the degree of difficulty on that one was off the charts. That kid is the king of the bounce pass.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 04:40 PM
Did you see that bounce pass he made in the first half to a rolling Tom Pritchard? Holy crap the degree of difficulty on that one was off the charts. That kid is the king of the bounce pass.

Yeah, I also saw Prichard fumble it like a doofus even though it couldn't have been any more perfect if Steve Nash had thrown it

cdash
01-31-2011, 04:47 PM
Yeah, I also saw Prichard fumble it like a doofus even though it couldn't have been any more perfect if Steve Nash had thrown it

Yep, then he went up like a sissy and got the shot blocked.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 04:49 PM
There was so much epic fail by Pritchard on that play that it was almost comical.

cdash
01-31-2011, 04:51 PM
There was so much epic fail by Pritchard on that play that it was almost comical.

Yeah, but I'll give him credit: he's played pretty well lately. Cutting down on the absurd fouls, rebounding nicely, boxing out, defending well. I will be ecstatic when we don't have to rely on him as a starter anymore, but he hasn't been bad lately.

Trader Joe
01-31-2011, 05:13 PM
He's played better. Unfortunately, since his freshman year there's been nowhere to go but up. Still I'll give him credit for sticking it out.

Trader Joe
02-02-2011, 07:49 PM
Up 10 early against Minnesota

Shade
02-02-2011, 09:19 PM
It's slipping away again...

Shade
02-02-2011, 09:37 PM
So, in the last three games, all against ranked teams, we're 2-1, with the one loss being by a single point.

Are we starting to turn the corner...?

Trader Joe
02-02-2011, 09:42 PM
I can't hear you over the huge man crush I have on Tom Crean and Jordan Hulls' passing.

pwee31
02-02-2011, 11:03 PM
So, in the last three games, all against ranked teams, we're 2-1, with the one loss being by a single point.

Are we starting to turn the corner...?

Michigan St. wasn't ranked anymore, but yes, yes we are!

Toss in Zeller next year, with this group getting experience and starting to win games :happydanc

cdash
02-02-2011, 11:17 PM
So, in the last three games, all against ranked teams, we're 2-1, with the one loss being by a single point.

Are we starting to turn the corner...?

I hope so. It certainly looks like it. Plus, we have an identity now. This is Jordan Hulls' team. He is the leader.

I just don't understand what or why it finally clicked for this team. If they had been playing like this all season, we would really be in business. I mean the ball movement and player movement on offense has just totally reversed course. What the hell happened?

pwee31
02-02-2011, 11:28 PM
I hope so. It certainly looks like it. Plus, we have an identity now. This is Jordan Hulls' team. He is the leader.

I just don't understand what or why it finally clicked for this team. If they had been playing like this all season, we would really be in business. I mean the ball movement and player movement on offense has just totally reversed course. What the hell happened?

I keep hearing something took play after the Northwestern game. That doesn't explain the Iowa embarrassment, but I heard Crean got into the team after the Northwestern game, and other than the Iowa game, they've responded well, even on the road and Wisconsin and Michigan St., though those were losses

hoosierguy
02-03-2011, 12:01 AM
A program is rising before our very eyes.

The future is so bright, I've got to wear :cool:.

hoosierguy
02-03-2011, 12:03 AM
If we had 5 banners and were not winning, I would not be happy. I am happy winning now though.

IU is winning AND has five banners. We've beaten more ranked teams than you have this season. Suck on that for awhile.

hoosierguy
02-03-2011, 12:09 AM
What Crean has done at IU is simply amazing, he is kicking Purdue and every other in-state school's *** in recruiting despite the lack of wins.

Purdue, Notre Dame, and Butler are at the height of their powers and none of the top instate players want to go there. Think about that for a moment.

As IU continues to improve Bloomington will become a black hole pulling in the top instate players for eternity.

Trader Joe
02-03-2011, 12:54 AM
I hope so. It certainly looks like it. Plus, we have an identity now. This is Jordan Hulls' team. He is the leader.

I just don't understand what or why it finally clicked for this team. If they had been playing like this all season, we would really be in business. I mean the ball movement and player movement on offense has just totally reversed course. What the hell happened?

Ok hear me out, Verdell and Hulls can't be on the court at the same time.

Why? Because Verdell needs the ball in his hands, and while Hulls is good as a spot up shooter, the TEAM is 100% better when he is running the offense. Everyone else moves looking for the ball. Verdell bogs us down.

They need to never be on the court together and if that means Verdell has to go to the bench permanently, then so be it.

Our run came with Verdell hurt, and then today our best stretches were when Hulls or Verdell was out there and the other was on the bench. We need to keep it like that.

We lost our lead and momentum when they would try to share the ball. A minor problem, but hopefully one Crean recognizes.

That's just my diagnosis though.

cdash
02-03-2011, 02:03 AM
Ok hear me out, Verdell and Hulls can't be on the court at the same time.

Why? Because Verdell needs the ball in his hands, and while Hulls is good as a spot up shooter, the TEAM is 100% better when he is running the offense. Everyone else moves looking for the ball. Verdell bogs us down.

They need to never be on the court together and if that means Verdell has to go to the bench permanently, then so be it.

Our run came with Verdell hurt, and then today our best stretches were when Hulls or Verdell was out there and the other was on the bench. We need to keep it like that.

We lost our lead and momentum when they would try to share the ball. A minor problem, but hopefully one Crean recognizes.

That's just my diagnosis though.

There's something to that. Me and my roommate had that talk the other day. I don't think they can't play together. I just don't think Verdell needs to handle the ball near as much as he has been in the past. He needs to spot up more and handle it only in a pinch. He turns it over too much. I thought the way he was utilized tonight is how he should be utilized the rest of the season. We wouldn't have won that game without his stones at the end of the game. Those 5 points won us the game.

The ball handlers for this team should be (in this order): Hulls, Rivers, Moore. Jones only in a pinch.

cdash
02-03-2011, 02:06 AM
IU is winning AND has five banners. We've beaten more ranked teams than you have this season. Suck on that for awhile.

Dude, don't talk **** to them. They are still a better team than us. We haven't won anything yet. We are playing better and winning the recruiting battle, and we should definitely be happy about that. It's way too early for the "we're back" and all that stuff. Long way to go still. But progress is being made and we are all more than thrilled about it.

ECKrueger
02-03-2011, 02:32 AM
Dude, don't talk **** to them. They are still a better team than us. We haven't won anything yet. We are playing better and winning the recruiting battle, and we should definitely be happy about that. It's way too early for the "we're back" and all that stuff. Long way to go still. But progress is being made and we are all more than thrilled about it.

I hate to say thank you to an iu fan, but thank you. In all honesty, you guys have looked sharper than we have recently in my opinion. Wisconsin wasn't good and neither was Minnesota. As long as we win the 8th I'll be happy ;)

cdash
02-03-2011, 02:43 AM
I hate to say thank you to an iu fan, but thank you. In all honesty, you guys have looked sharper than we have recently in my opinion. Wisconsin wasn't good and neither was Minnesota. As long as we win the 8th I'll be happy ;)

Wisconsin is next to impossible to beat at the Kohl Center. I wouldn't be too upset about that loss. But on the 8th, it's war! :devil:

Trader Joe
02-03-2011, 03:35 AM
Just so everyone knows, IU has beaten 2 top 25 teams this season, Purdue has beaten 2 top 25 teams this season....I'm just sayin'

Trader Joe
02-03-2011, 03:37 AM
There's something to that. Me and my roommate had that talk the other day. I don't think they can't play together. I just don't think Verdell needs to handle the ball near as much as he has been in the past. He needs to spot up more and handle it only in a pinch. He turns it over too much. I thought the way he was utilized tonight is how he should be utilized the rest of the season. We wouldn't have won that game without his stones at the end of the game. Those 5 points won us the game.

The ball handlers for this team should be (in this order): Hulls, Rivers, Moore. Jones only in a pinch.

Jones should get an iso maybe 1 out of every 10 times he is on the court. He's too predictable after a while with his moves. He's a decent ball handler, but he dribbles himself into double teams way too often.

Hulls on the other hand is pretty much a virtuoso when it comes to handling the basketball. He turns it over occasionally, but it's usually because he's out thought everyone else on the court and is a step ahead of the guy he's trying to throw the ball to.

Also, Victor Oladipo mushroom stamped Mbakwe tonight. He's going to be trying to get the Spalding logo out of his head for a couple weeks.

cdash
02-03-2011, 04:06 AM
Jones should get an iso maybe 1 out of every 10 times he is on the court. He's too predictable after a while with his moves. He's a decent ball handler, but he dribbles himself into double teams way too often.

Hulls on the other hand is pretty much a virtuoso when it comes to handling the basketball. He turns it over occasionally, but it's usually because he's out thought everyone else on the court and is a step ahead of the guy he's trying to throw the ball to.

Also, Victor Oladipo mushroom stamped Mbakwe tonight. He's going to be trying to get the Spalding logo out of his head for a couple weeks.

I hate to sound like a homer here, but Jordan Hulls may be the best bounce passer I have ever seen. That dude is incredible at bounce passes. He fits them into some seriously tight windows too. Yeah, he's my favorite Hoosier right now.

ECKrueger
02-03-2011, 04:11 AM
Wisconsin is next to impossible to beat at the Kohl Center. I wouldn't be too upset about that loss. But on the 8th, it's war! :devil:

I'm pretty sure during the broadcast they said Ohio and Michigan state had never won there. Something about us having the most wins there against Bo Ryan is something too. I will be there Feb 8 to witness the victory in person.

cdash
02-03-2011, 11:30 AM
I'm pretty sure during the broadcast they said Ohio and Michigan state had never won there. Something about us having the most wins there against Bo Ryan is something too. I will be there Feb 8 to witness the victory in person.

You will win at Mackey, but I think you are going to lose when you come to Bloomington. The fans have been absolutely bonkers lately and the rivalry is always close.

ECKrueger
02-03-2011, 12:35 PM
Ya either game could go either way in a rivalry.

Dab
02-05-2011, 07:34 PM
You will win at Mackey, but I think you are going to lose when you come to Bloomington. The fans have been absolutely bonkers lately and the rivalry is always close.

If IU plays good defense, which they have lately, then they have a very good chance of beating Purdue in Bloomington.

What's up with Iowa? They really seem to have IU's number. Both IU and Purdue will be coming off a loss going into the first clash.

cdash
02-05-2011, 07:39 PM
I'm so ****ing pissed about that game. ****ing refs were horrible, for both teams. They completely bogged the game down with ****tard dick**** calls the entire second half, killing any flow. Rivers, I love him, but he played like ****ing donkey **** dipped in bacon grease topped with the blood of 17 beavers. Turnovers ****ing murdered us. We should not have blown that ****ing lead against that ****ing team at home. ****ing bull ****. I want to break something. I need to find something to break. **** you Iowa. **** you Indiana for making me care again and then punching me in the ****ing balls. Crean was equally as pissed near the end after they ran that one drawn up play like ****ing crap. Stupid *****es I swear.

Mackey_Rose
02-05-2011, 07:48 PM
I have defended Crean on the basis of his recruiting, but my God, it looked like that was the first time he's ever seen a zone.

Psyren
02-05-2011, 09:51 PM
When IU threw the ball in at 00:10, what the hell was that supposed to be? I know Crean was pissed hence the next timeout, but seriously, what the hell was that supposed to be?

Trader Joe
02-06-2011, 03:25 AM
I've seen enough of Verdell Jones.

pacer4ever
02-06-2011, 03:29 AM
I'm so ****ing pissed about that game. ****ing refs were horrible, for both teams. They completely bogged the game down with ****tard dick**** calls the entire second half, killing any flow. Rivers, I love him, but he played like ****ing donkey **** dipped in bacon grease topped with the blood of 17 beavers. Turnovers ****ing murdered us. We should not have blown that ****ing lead against that ****ing team at home. ****ing bull ****. I want to break something. I need to find something to break. **** you Iowa. **** you Indiana for making me care again and then punching me in the ****ing balls. Crean was equally as pissed near the end after they ran that one drawn up play like ****ing crap. Stupid *****es I swear.

Now tell me how you really feel...

Trader Joe
02-06-2011, 03:36 AM
Seriously, I hate to pin this all on Verdell, but...how can you not? He goes out and the team takes off, he comes back shoots 1/9, bogs down the offense with his dick **** drives to the hoop and then chucks up a terrible shot at the end where he doesn't even look for anyone else....

I mean it can't be purely a coincidence.

Mackey_Rose
02-06-2011, 04:44 AM
When IU threw the ball in at 00:10, what the hell was that supposed to be? I know Crean was pissed hence the next timeout, but seriously, what the hell was that supposed to be?

Iowa was killing them with their zone. I mean killing them. IU never did anything to try to beat it. They should have been laying the ball in every possession against that thing, but they were just content to throw the ball around the perimeter.

Crean called timeout and I'm guessing he expected Iowa to stay in that zone and defend the last play. He probably drew up something to try to beat it for once, but McCaffrey was a step ahead and switched to man-to-man. My guess is Crean told them what to run in case of a man-to-man but his players just froze and didn't do what he told them.

I expected Iowa to switch back to zone after the second timeout, but they stayed in their man-to-man. Jones actually got a pretty good look at it, and Oladipo's tip was damn near in as well.

Tough loss Hoosiers, I hope you are ready for an *** kicking this week as a nice follow up.

Shade
02-06-2011, 08:48 AM
Just when you think we may have turned the corner, we lose to Iowa. Again. At home.

:censored:

Shade
02-06-2011, 09:13 AM
Seriously, I hate to pin this all on Verdell, but...how can you not? He goes out and the team takes off, he comes back shoots 1/9, bogs down the offense with his dick **** drives to the hoop and then chucks up a terrible shot at the end where he doesn't even look for anyone else....

I mean it can't be purely a coincidence.

If there's one thing we've learned with Murphy/O'Brien/Posey, it's "where there's smoke..."

cdash
02-06-2011, 02:41 PM
Seriously, I hate to pin this all on Verdell, but...how can you not? He goes out and the team takes off, he comes back shoots 1/9, bogs down the offense with his dick **** drives to the hoop and then chucks up a terrible shot at the end where he doesn't even look for anyone else....

I mean it can't be purely a coincidence.

I'm not that upset with him. We just don't have the horses at the end of the game when we need a bucket. They were not going to let Hulls get a shot off, and sadly he's too small and unathletic to create a quality shot in an iso. With no Watford, Verdell is the one who has to create for himself. Unfortunately, he's hobbled and playing rather terribly. However, I can't blame everything on him. He won us the Minnesota game.

hoosierguy
02-06-2011, 06:12 PM
Tough loss Hoosiers, I hope you are ready for an *** kicking this week as a nice follow up.

Beating Indiana- the highlight of Purdue's season since 1900.

IU may receive an *** kicking on Tuesday (although I highly doubt it), but those are only temporary, whereas you will be an *** hole FOREVER.

hoosierguy
02-06-2011, 06:19 PM
Who is Fatty Painter going to have score the ball when the last vestiges of his ONLY good recruiting class graduate?

Robbie Hummel for a season on his old man knees?

Purdue is already an offensively challenged team.

The talent IU has coming in over the next four years may be unsurpassed by any other program in the country.

Happy Days are here again and will stay here for the foreseeable future!

None of the top instate players want to play for Purdue!!

Mackey_Rose
02-06-2011, 06:25 PM
Beating Indiana- the highlight of Purdue's season since 1900.

IU may receive an *** kicking on Tuesday (although I highly doubt it), but those are only temporary, whereas you will be an *** hole FOREVER.

Haha I'm the *******?

Dab
02-06-2011, 06:40 PM
Haha I'm the *******?

I think you touched a sore spot

BPump33
02-07-2011, 01:57 PM
So, I'm still not happy about the outcome, but how awesome is this dunk?

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EsHLYT48yhU?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EsHLYT48yhU?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

cdash
02-08-2011, 07:00 PM
It's war, mother****ers. Die.

Trader Joe
02-08-2011, 07:59 PM
LET ME HEAR YOUR BATTLE CRY

AAAAAAAHH

BringJackBack
02-08-2011, 08:15 PM
There we go.

Trader Joe
02-08-2011, 10:23 PM
Just didn't have the ponies, but while Purdue was leaning on two seniors, we were leaning on Oladipo, Sheehey, Hulls, and Elston (defensively). We'll be fine.

cdash
02-08-2011, 11:21 PM
I never got into that game. Weird. I feel nothing over that loss. One way or the other.

Dab
02-08-2011, 11:42 PM
Yeah, I thought it was kind of a lackluster game too.

hoosierguy
02-09-2011, 10:44 PM
That was some *** kicking Purdue put on IU last night.:rolleyes:

Single digit game until the final minute or two.

hoosierguy
02-09-2011, 10:45 PM
Yeah, I thought it was kind of a lackluster game too.

Pritchard getting his shot blocked is as common as snow in North Pole. The guy has no vertical lift.

It's not an avatar worthy event.