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MillerTime
11-12-2010, 05:36 PM
The Kings have shopped young big man Jason Thompson, according to ESPN.com's Marc Stein.

Thompson has averaged just 15.4 minutes per game this season with Carl Landry and Darnell Jackson ahead of him on Sacramento's depth chart.

The Suns, Heat and Raptors are all looking for help in their frontcourt and could be fits.



ESPN Insider
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70063/20101112/kings_have_shopped_thompson/#

MillerTime
11-12-2010, 05:37 PM
How are we NOT invovled in this

Sparhawk
11-12-2010, 05:43 PM
How are we NOT invovled in this

My thoughts exactly. Jason could probably play some backup C too.

vnzla81
11-12-2010, 05:44 PM
It would be nice if they could get a deal done

Psyren
11-12-2010, 05:46 PM
I'm not sure the report is saying the Heat, Raps, and Suns have contacted the Kings about Thompson, or are the front runners. They may or may not be.

I think he's just saying those teams are the ones who very obviously need front court help.

pacers74
11-12-2010, 05:52 PM
I would offer a first for him. The Heat can't have much to offer.

esabyrn333
11-12-2010, 06:03 PM
Dante Jones & 1st lottery protected would be fair in my eyes. Though I don't know if I'm wearing my rose colored glasses or not.

Top 10 protected if they whinned.

pacers74
11-12-2010, 06:04 PM
I don't think they would want the lottery protected part.

MyFavMartin
11-12-2010, 06:19 PM
It'd be funny if we got Thompson from them via trade and then signed Landry away from them in FA next summer.

I really like Tyler and McRoberts and having Thompson with Roy, we might not need to go after Landry.

CableKC
11-12-2010, 06:23 PM
Dante Jones & 1st lottery protected would be fair in my eyes. Though I don't know if I'm wearing my rose colored glasses or not.

Top 10 protected if they whinned.
The Kings would want no part of Inferno and his contract. To keep it simple...it would be Jason Thompson for Top 3 Protected 1st round pick. If TPTB want to send out a contract...then it would be Solo+Top 3 Protected 1st Round Pick for Jason Thompson. It would work since the Kings are under the Salary Cap.

If Bird is willing to part with a 1st for Anthony Randolph....then I'd hope that he'd do it for Jason Thompson.

90'sNBARocked
11-12-2010, 06:26 PM
The Kings would want no part of Inferno and his contract. To keep it simple...it would be Jason Thompson for Top 3 Protected 1st round pick. If TPTB want to send out a contract...then it would be Solo+Top 3 Protected 1st Round Pick for Jason Thompson.

If Bird is willing to part with a 1st for Anthony Randolph....then I'd hope that he'd do it for Jason Thompson.

Here is the only problem I see

If Thompson is good, why does Laundry get the majority of the minutes? Is he that good? or is JT in the "doghouse"

Thompson seems a bit undersized to me, and although Laundry is probably smaller , he plays bigger than he is

MyFavMartin
11-12-2010, 06:30 PM
Would you give up Paul George for him? I'd be very tempted as Thompson could be the starting PF for years to come and also get spot minutes at Center.

Lance George
11-12-2010, 06:34 PM
Thompson had a better-than-expected rookie season and has been overrated ever since. I'd say a mid-1st rounder is fair value for him.

PR07
11-12-2010, 06:34 PM
No, I would not give up Paul George for Thompson. We're one year away from free agency where we can get a PF, and thus have our cake and eat it too.

pacers74
11-12-2010, 06:41 PM
I would not want to give up PG. I would give a first and an expiring. That would mean we would have to take on a contract that they would want to get rid of. I don't know who that would be, though.

cdash
11-12-2010, 06:44 PM
I wouldn't give up a first round pick in any capacity for Jason Thompson. I just don't think he's good.

Young
11-12-2010, 06:45 PM
Ignore where Thompson was picked and the fact that he did better his rookie season than many thought he would. Has he shown anything that makes him better than Josh or Tyler?

I would probably pass on Thompson even if it only cost the Pacers a protected 1rst round pick. I think there will probably be a decent group of players to pick from where the Pacers are likely to pick (that includes big men).

HeliumFear
11-12-2010, 06:58 PM
He can actually rebound. Do it now.

wintermute
11-12-2010, 06:59 PM
I always felt that Jason Thompson is overrated around here. Certainly not worth Paul George. On the other hand, a mid first rounder sounds about the right value for him. He's still a young, tall, fairly athletic player, and we could certainly use more big guys who could play rotation minutes.

IndyPacer
11-12-2010, 07:08 PM
Would you give up Paul George for him? I'd be very tempted as Thompson could be the starting PF for years to come and also get spot minutes at Center.

NO! I think we'll be OK this year with Josh and Tyler. If a great deal comes along, go for it, but we're not as desperate at this point for a PF as we once were.

I'd like a PF/C, but I don't want to give up George. He could end up being a terrific player.

Doddage
11-12-2010, 07:20 PM
Thompson would be a really nice fit here. He's a better rebounding version of LaMarcus Aldridge in my eyes, which is a good complement to Hibbert. While he might be overrated, he's still a good basketball player and one that we should take a flyer on if the price is right.

MLB007
11-12-2010, 07:20 PM
Would you give up Paul George for him? I'd be very tempted as Thompson could be the starting PF for years to come and also get spot minutes at Center.

No flipping way in hell :eek:
The guys isn't even a starter and you would consider giving up a future all star for him???

granger
11-12-2010, 07:55 PM
I'm watching him very close and I wouldnt even trade 2nd round pick for him if I were Pacers.

BringJackBack
11-12-2010, 07:57 PM
I'm watching him very close and I wouldnt even trade 2nd rounder for him if I were Pacers.

Why not a 2nd rounder? How bad has he been? Is it work ethic, basketball IQ, or what?

IndyPacer
11-12-2010, 09:12 PM
I'm watching him very close and I wouldnt even trade 2nd round pick for him if I were Pacers.

Well, I would probably give up a second rounder unless he's committed some horrendous crime I don't know about or has undisclosed medical issues.

vnzla81
11-12-2010, 09:16 PM
I'm watching him very close and I wouldnt even trade 2nd round pick for him if I were Pacers.

Very close and you are in Turkey?

Kamiyohk
11-12-2010, 09:32 PM
ok thompson
tj+posey+md+soloman+d.jones = thompson

a grade trade

Justin Tyme
11-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Would you give up Paul George for him? I'd be very tempted as Thompson could be the starting PF for years to come and also get spot minutes at Center.

As much as I would like to get Thompson, here is NO WAY I want PG traded for him.

Justin Tyme
11-12-2010, 10:02 PM
No, I would not give up Paul George for Thompson. We're one year away from free agency where we can get a PF, and thus have our cake and eat it too.


What FA PF? You sound like there is a tree full just for the picking.

Lance George
11-12-2010, 10:02 PM
I'd offer them Brandon Rush and a 2nd.

Justin Tyme
11-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Ignore where Thompson was picked and the fact that he did better his rookie season than many thought he would. Has he shown anything that makes him better than Josh or Tyler?

I would probably pass on Thompson even if it only cost the Pacers a protected 1rst round pick. I think there will probably be a decent group of players to pick from where the Pacers are likely to pick (that includes big men).


The Pacers already currently have 2 young PF. When do you think this drafted PF is going to get PT and how many years to develop? The Pacers need someone NOW not 3-4 years from now!

pwee31
11-12-2010, 10:51 PM
I know Josh McRoberts is not a starting PF, no matter what the fan boys say, and if having him and Hansbrough are the reasons we're not after Thompson, than someone should be ashamed of themselves

ChristianDudley
11-12-2010, 10:51 PM
He'd be a HUGE upgrade over McRoberts. I'd love to have a Thompson/Hansbrough PF rotation.

CableKC
11-12-2010, 11:53 PM
I'd offer them Brandon Rush and a 2nd.
Given their SG/SF rotation....I doubt that they would have any interest in BRush. My guess is that we'd probably need to involve some 3-team trade where BRush goes to the 3rd Team.

That...or I'd offer the 1st round pick for Jason Thompson.

imawhat
11-13-2010, 05:35 AM
Being behind Darnell Jackson is like being behind Solo in the rotation.

There is a reason he's being shopped.

cdash
11-13-2010, 05:40 AM
Man this is like the Kirk Hinrich thing for me--I just don't see it. I never understood why people wanted Hinrich and I don't understand this infatuation with Jason Thompson. I've watched him plenty, and I just don't think he's any good. I don't see him as a real upgrade over Josh or Tyler. I wouldn't give up a first rounder for him, and I certainly wouldn't give up Paul George for him. If it were a Dahntay Jones+2nd rounder for Jason Thompson type of deal, then I'd probably pull the trigger, but I woulnd't give up anything of value for the guy.

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 06:55 AM
Man this is like the Kirk Hinrich thing for me--I just don't see it. I never understood why people wanted Hinrich and I don't understand this infatuation with Jason Thompson. I've watched him plenty, and I just don't think he's any good. I don't see him as a real upgrade over Josh or Tyler. I wouldn't give up a first rounder for him, and I certainly wouldn't give up Paul George for him. If it were a Dahntay Jones+2nd rounder for Jason Thompson type of deal, then I'd probably pull the trigger, but I woulnd't give up anything of value for the guy.


The same is said about every player someone wants on this board. The negativism about players never ends. A few years ago it was Carl Landry wasn't any good, couldn't play, not big enough, etc. I wanted Bird to get him when he was a RFA. The same about about Jack, he was a 3rd string PG who couldn't play. I wanted Jarrett Jack for years, and the one year he was here he was good for the Pacers. I want Thompson, and he'll be fine for the Pacers. I'm not looking for an Allstar, but a good reliable 4/5 to help out.

You got a better prospect for the Pacers who can play the 4/5 that is CHEAP with some experience under his belt? He's better than the 6mil dollar man sitting on the bench the last 2 years that is constantly injured and can't contribute!! Personally, I'm not excited at the thought of Solo being Hibby's b/u, or an elder statesman with a record of health problems who is constantly injured.

Speaking of players who have been chastized on this board for not being much of a player, Love had a 31/31 game last night. Not shabby for a slow, not big enough, can't jump guy as he's been described by many.

If Jason Thompson is available, Bird should do what's reasonable to get him. If some people would take the time and go thru the other 29 team rosters, it would be obvious that young cheap bigs with size who can play the 4/5 with talent AREN'T a dime a dozen. If they were, other teams wouldn't be short on them.

MLB007
11-13-2010, 09:45 AM
The same is said about every player someone wants on this board. The negativism about players never ends. A few years ago it was Carl Landry wasn't any good, couldn't play, not big enough, etc. I wanted Bird to get him when he was a RFA. The same about about Jack, he was a 3rd string PG who couldn't play. I wanted Jarrett Jack for years, and the one year he was here he was good for the Pacers. I want Thompson, and he'll be fine for the Pacers. I'm not looking for an Allstar, but a good reliable 4/5 to help out.

You got a better prospect for the Pacers who can play the 4/5 that is CHEAP with some experience under his belt? He's better than the 6mil dollar man sitting on the bench the last 2 years that is constantly injured and can't contribute!! Personally, I'm not excited at the thought of Solo being Hibby's b/u, or an elder statesman with a record of health problems who is constantly injured.

Speaking of players who have been chastized on this board for not being much of a player, Love had a 31/31 game last night. Not shabby for a slow, not big enough, can't jump guy as he's been described by many.

If Jason Thompson is available, Bird should do what's reasonable to get him. If some people would take the time and go thru the other 29 team rosters, it would be obvious that young cheap bigs with size who can play the 4/5 with talent AREN'T a dime a dozen. If they were, other teams wouldn't be short on them.

Sounds like Magnum Rolle

MyFavMartin
11-13-2010, 10:50 AM
I'm thinking they'd want someone to take Beno and his awful contract. I'd pass big time in that case. Next year's draft is pretty good for bigs.

PG isn't an All Star or a starter either.

Eleazar
11-13-2010, 11:23 AM
PG isn't an All Star or a starter either.

At this point in his career yes, but he very well could be in a couple seasons.

PacersPride
11-13-2010, 11:46 AM
im gonna be straight up honest, i have not watched much of jason thompson play, but i know that he was a lottery pick and had a good rook year by the numbers. i assumed there were too many big man in sactown for him to get minutes and thats why they are considering a trade.

i like thompsons upside over randolph and we offerred a first for him. its true i have not seen much from randolph either, im simply going off of what has been said about the two players on this board.

if bird were willing to offer a first for randolph, i would think he would do the same for JT. bottom line here is, we should at least pickup the phone and see what sactown is wanting for him because we need a b/u center desparately for hibbs.

if sactown would take solo and two 2nd rounders, i presume Bird would make that move without delay.

* edit

no way i would include PG24 for Thompson.

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 12:25 PM
Sounds like Magnum Rolle


Rolle is built like Solo, and neither has the size that Thompson has to play Center.

Young
11-13-2010, 12:37 PM
The Pacers already currently have 2 young PF. When do you think this drafted PF is going to get PT and how many years to develop? The Pacers need someone NOW not 3-4 years from now!

My whole point was Thompson probably isn't anything special. Might as well roll the dice in the draft. I didn't have anyone in particular in mind.

Maybe i'm missing something here. I just haven't seen much of anything from Thompson that makes me think he is worth going after.

My other point is that had the guy not been a lottery pick and picked where he was projected (mid - late first) then a lot of people on here would not be that interested in him. However since he was picked in the lottery he has "potential" attached to him.

Maybe the guy is being held back in Sacramento. Bad coach? Stuck behind better players? Until he shows otherwise I see no reason to go after him. Just how much better would he make this team?

vnzla81
11-13-2010, 01:28 PM
The same is said about every player someone wants on this board. The negativism about players never ends. A few years ago it was Carl Landry wasn't any good, couldn't play, not big enough, etc. I wanted Bird to get him when he was a RFA. The same about about Jack, he was a 3rd string PG who couldn't play. I wanted Jarrett Jack for years, and the one year he was here he was good for the Pacers. I want Thompson, and he'll be fine for the Pacers. I'm not looking for an Allstar, but a good reliable 4/5 to help out.

You got a better prospect for the Pacers who can play the 4/5 that is CHEAP with some experience under his belt? He's better than the 6mil dollar man sitting on the bench the last 2 years that is constantly injured and can't contribute!! Personally, I'm not excited at the thought of Solo being Hibby's b/u, or an elder statesman with a record of health problems who is constantly injured.

Speaking of players who have been chastized on this board for not being much of a player, Love had a 31/31 game last night. Not shabby for a slow, not big enough, can't jump guy as he's been described by many.

If Jason Thompson is available, Bird should do what's reasonable to get him. If some people would take the time and go thru the other 29 team rosters, it would be obvious that young cheap bigs with size who can play the 4/5 with talent AREN'T a dime a dozen. If they were, other teams wouldn't be short on them.

I feel your pain here, I remember some people saying that Millsap was too small and that he was not the answer, the same thing with Landry and even Bass. If there is a chance to get Thompson for a draft pick and expiring I would make the deal today the guy is young and has potential, Sacramento is looking to trade him because they are packed on bigs(Dalember,Cousins, Greene,Landry and Whiteside)

imawhat
11-13-2010, 01:37 PM
He isn't that good. He's got a better jumper from 12 feet than Tyler and Josh, but that's about it. He has a sour attitude, he doesn't rebound well for his size, has defensive problems, etc.

I'd rather see small ball than see him as our backup. And I don't like small ball.

vnzla81
11-13-2010, 01:49 PM
He isn't that good. He's got a better jumper from 12 feet than Tyler and Josh, but that's about it. He has a sour attitude, he doesn't rebound well for his size, has defensive problems, etc.

I'd rather see small ball than see him as our backup. And I don't like small ball.

Here are his numbers 2008-09 7.4reb and 11.1 (first year in the NBA)

2009-10 8.5reb and 12.5 points per game(second year in the NBA)

2010-11 4.7reb and 5.1 points per game(not playing as many minutes)

At worst he is the back up center Justin Tyme is been annoying everybody about :D

vnzla81
11-13-2010, 01:55 PM
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croz24
11-13-2010, 02:06 PM
i say we offer up rush, jones, and 2011 unprotected 1st for thompson and greene

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 04:32 PM
My whole point was Thompson probably isn't anything special. Might as well roll the dice in the draft. I didn't have anyone in particular in mind.

Maybe i'm missing something here. I just haven't seen much of anything from Thompson that makes me think he is worth going after.

My other point is that had the guy not been a lottery pick and picked where he was projected (mid - late first) then a lot of people on here would not be that interested in him. However since he was picked in the lottery he has "potential" attached to him.

Maybe the guy is being held back in Sacramento. Bad coach? Stuck behind better players? Until he shows otherwise I see no reason to go after him. Just how much better would he make this team?


I'm not concerned as to where he or other players are drafted. It's no big deal with me like it is with some others. I won't disagree there might be a problem with something going on with Thompson, but I'd sure like to give him an opportunity as a Pacer.

Thompson's teammate Cousins it seems has been fined $5,000 by the Kings for his actions with one of the coaches. Like we knew that wasn't going to happen. It maybe the Kings aren't in that big of a hurry to let Thompson go if Cousins is having attitude issues.

I heard Foster will be able to play next week, and my guess Bird has been treading water at b/u Center until Foster returned. It will be interesting to see just how much Foster can contribute to earn his 6.6 mil salary.

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 04:36 PM
i say we offer up rush, jones, and 2011 unprotected 1st for thompson and greene


Only in your dreams..... and mine! I'd personally nominate Bird for Executive of the Year if that happened. AND we all know I'm not a fan of Bird the GM.

ballism
11-13-2010, 04:50 PM
I wouldnt give a lottery pick for Thompson. Much less an unprotected pick...

Eleazar
11-13-2010, 05:04 PM
Only in your dreams..... and mine! I'd personally nominate Bird for Executive of the Year if that happened. AND we all know I'm not a fan of Bird the GM.

Seriously are Thompson and Greene really worth that much? What does Greene do that makes him so much better than Rush? Is Thompson worth a top 10 pick?

croz24
11-13-2010, 05:23 PM
Seriously are Thompson and Greene really worth that much? What does Greene do that makes him so much better than Rush? Is Thompson worth a top 10 pick?

don't want to get into draft philosophy and how to build a team, so my simple answer is yes, i believe they are.

cdash
11-13-2010, 06:23 PM
Doesn't it say something about Thompson that the Kings keep going after players that play his position? They trade for Dalembert, they draft Cousins, they trade for Landry...all while they had Thompson. That tells me that they don't think he is the answer. Some of you guys just want anyone who is available and fits a need for us. I'd rather be patient and go after an impact guy later in the season, through the draft, or with our cap flexibility this summer.

croz24
11-13-2010, 06:28 PM
Doesn't it say something about Thompson that the Kings keep going after players that play his position? They trade for Dalembert, they draft Cousins, they trade for Landry...all while they had Thompson. That tells me that they don't think he is the answer. Some of you guys just want anyone who is available and fits a need for us. I'd rather be patient and go after an impact guy later in the season, through the draft, or with our cap flexibility this summer.

that doesn't mean sacramento is correct in their evaluations

Eleazar
11-13-2010, 06:30 PM
don't want to get into draft philosophy and how to build a team, so my simple answer is yes, i believe they are.

I wasn't expecting a long answer about Thompson being worth a top 10 or not, but that doesn't really answer my question about Greene though?

I'm not real familiar with Greene, but his stats aren't any better than Rush and they have both been in the league for 3 seasons?

croz24
11-13-2010, 06:47 PM
I wasn't expecting a long answer about Thompson being worth a top 10 or not, but that doesn't really answer my question about Greene though?

I'm not real familiar with Greene, but his stats aren't any better than Rush and they have both been in the league for 3 seasons?

greene had absolutely no business falling to where he did in the draft. he's 3 years younger than rush with all the potential in the world to become a star. offensively i'd say rush is very slightly better at this point. defensively, rush is better but greene is an incredibly athletic, willing defender. he just hasn't seen much time. greene is one of those guys just waiting to go to a team where he can break out imo. i guess he compares to bender, but without the injury concerns.

Pacersalltheway10
11-13-2010, 07:59 PM
Wow just because the Kings have been tading for or drafting players at Thompson's positions doesn't mean cannot be a starter or a good player. They got Dalembart , an EXPIRING, for some of their long term contracts. They drafted Cousins because he was the best player available at 5. and they traded for Landry when Thompson was still new to the NBA and he's a PF. JT is more of a center. Some of you really wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder for him? Really???????? Hibbert/ Mcroberts starting and Tyler and Thompson coming off the bench would be awesome!!! If we are doing this good with just Hibbert , tyler, and josh then with Thompson, we could have one of the best back up frontcourts.

We need Thompson. We need a backup center. Maybe the reason thompson is not playing good this season is because he keeps getting pushed back in the depth charts. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of playing good. Really if I were the Kings why not start cousins at center. Let's see if he can play first. Remember it's only like 7-10 games into the season.

I would give up DJones Solo and a 2nd rounder for sure. or even look to get into a multi team trade.

cdash
11-13-2010, 08:02 PM
Wow just because the Kings have been tading for or drafting players at Thompson's positions doesn't mean cannot be a starter or a good player. They got Dalembart , an EXPIRING, for some of their long term contracts. They drafted Cousins because he was the best player available at 5. and they traded for Landry when Thompson was still new to the NBA and he's a PF. JT is more of a center. Some of you really wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder for him? Really???????? Hibbert/ Mcroberts starting and Tyler and Thompson coming off the bench would be awesome!!! If we are doing this good with just Hibbert , tyler, and josh then with Thompson, we could have one of the best back up frontcourts.

We need Thompson. We need a backup center. Maybe the reason thompson is not playing good this season is because he keeps getting pushed back in the depth charts. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of playing good. Really if I were the Kings why not start cousins at center. Let's see if he can play first. Remember it's only like 7-10 games into the season.

I would give up DJones Solo and a 2nd rounder for sure. or even look to get into a multi team trade.

If you go back and read some of my posts on this, I said that I would give up a package such as that to get Thompson. I just wouldn't give up anything of value. If Sacramento would accept that poo poo platter offer for Thompson, then I would gladly roll the dice with him. I just wouldn't give up any actual assets for him.

ballism
11-13-2010, 08:13 PM
Pointless argument, Kings aren't giving him away for a 2nd rounder + some marginal backups.

PacersPride
11-13-2010, 08:14 PM
If you go back and read some of my posts on this, I said that I would give up a package such as that to get Thompson. I just wouldn't give up anything of value. If Sacramento would accept that poo poo platter offer for Thompson, then I would gladly roll the dice with him. I just wouldn't give up any actual assets for him.

i have changed my stance on this, originally i believed JT to be a missing piece to the puzzle. either way, we need someone other than solo to b/u hibbs. not sure JT is worth a first, if Oden is available next offseason which it sounds like he is... then maybe we just hold onto the first and sign Oden.

i know he has been injured but i think Oden can still handle b/u center minutes.

BringJackBack
11-13-2010, 08:16 PM
Pointless argument, Kings aren't giving him away for a 2nd rounder + some marginal backups.

Yeah. Especially since Jason Thompson isn't a marginal backup.

Rush and a 2nd is more than enough for Jason Thompson.

cdash
11-13-2010, 08:23 PM
i have changed my stance on this, originally i believed JT to be a missing piece to the puzzle. either way, we need someone other than solo to b/u hibbs. not sure JT is worth a first, if Oden is available next offseason which it sounds like he is... then maybe we just hold onto the first and sign Oden.

i know he has been injured but i think Oden can still handle b/u center minutes.

Yeah, I'd love to see that. Sadly, I just don't think Oden can stay healthy. If he didn't have all those injury concerns, I think he would have close to a Dwight Howard-like impact on games. Guess we'll never know.

xBulletproof
11-13-2010, 08:26 PM
Yeah, I'd love to see that. Sadly, I just don't think Oden can stay healthy. If he didn't have all those injury concerns, I think he would have close to a Dwight Howard-like impact on games. Guess we'll never know.

Not only that, but I have a feeling he's going to command too much money for the risk as well. There's a price I'd be willing to pay for him, over the MLE wouldn't be it either. I'm sure he'll clear that.

ballism
11-13-2010, 08:39 PM
Yeah. Especially since Jason Thompson isn't a marginal backup.

Rush and a 2nd is more than enough for Jason Thompson.

You need to do some reading before doing some replying i believe :p
the argument was about Dahntay+Solo+2nd rounder.
Either way, i don't think a 2nd rounder + scrubs is 'enough' to get him from Kings. Is he a marginal backup who isn't 'worth' more than a 2nd rounder+scrubs? If yes, then why do we want him?

BringJackBack
11-13-2010, 08:44 PM
You need to do some reading before doing some replying i believe :p
the argument was about Dahntay+Solo+2nd rounder.
Either way, i don't think a 2nd rounder + scrubs is 'enough' to get him from Kings. Is he a marginal backup who isn't 'worth' more than a 2nd rounder+scrubs? If yes, then why do we want him?

Oh, well I saw where someone said that Brandon Rush and a second would work. My bad.

I don't know why we want him. I don't think he's all that. :laugh:

Pacersalltheway10
11-13-2010, 09:56 PM
How about TJ ford + optional 2nd rounder for Jason Thompson? The Kings are really in need of a good backup point guard. They got Udrih as the starter pg and Eavens at SG. All they have as a backup pg is Pooh Jeter who is not doing so could with the 2nd unit. This allows AJ Price to come back. and we get a good back up center or maybe our starting PF. I think the Kings would really think aout this. You cannot win games unless you have a good 2nd unit PG. that is what TJ is. and that is Thompson would be for us at center.

Whether you think he's overrated or not he is still a good player who can help this team win.

DC2/AJ Price/ Lance?
Dun/ Rush/ Jones
Granger/Geroge/Posey
McRoberts/Tyler
Hibbert/ Thompson/.......solo

pretty good young player to add to the core.

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 10:02 PM
Doesn't it say something about Thompson that the Kings keep going after players that play his position? They trade for Dalembert, they draft Cousins, they trade for Landry...all while they had Thompson. That tells me that they don't think he is the answer. Some of you guys just want anyone who is available and fits a need for us. I'd rather be patient and go after an impact guy later in the season, through the draft, or with our cap flexibility this summer.


It really gets tiresome that just b/c a player isn't preforming to some's specs there must be something wrong with the player. Last year it was NO NO we don't want JJ Hickson, he's a nothing. I said then the kid could play and that he'd be a good pick up in a Murphy to Cavs trade. He's got 10 pts at half time and is the leading Cavs scorer this season at 16 pts all while starting.

AGAIN, the Pacers NEED a good quality starting PF NOW, and they aren't going to get it thru the draft. Neither can they wait for someone from the draft to take 3-4 years to develop. FA isn't going to bring one either, so it's got to be thru a trade.

Dalembert is a Center where as Thompson is a PF that can play Center. Cousins is a Center who can play PF. Thompson would make the Pacers a good acquistion for the Pacers.

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 10:11 PM
I wasn't expecting a long answer about Thompson being worth a top 10 or not, but that doesn't really answer my question about Greene though?

I'm not real familiar with Greene, but his stats aren't any better than Rush and they have both been in the league for 3 seasons?


Greene was a player I wanted last year. He's versatile in that he can play 3 positions. With the Pacers getting PG, he's a real need now, but is a nice young player.

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 10:34 PM
Seriously are Thompson and Greene really worth that much? What does Greene do that makes him so much better than Rush? Is Thompson worth a top 10 pick?


Are you expecting the Pacers to have a top 10 pick this coming draft? I would hope they have a better record this year than last. With so many underclassmen declaring last draft the 011 draft isn't going to be loaded with talent, especially with a out looming.

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 10:43 PM
I wouldnt give a lottery pick for Thompson.


WHY?

ballism
11-13-2010, 11:06 PM
WHY?

Mostly because I don't think he's worth it I suppose?... Have you guys been watching Kings? That guy and Hawes were supposed to be their cornerstones a year and a half ago. Then they got Evans and realised what a real young cornerstone looks like. He's been given as much rope as any young guy, and was exactly the same player for 2 years. It's not like he has a ton of potential.

If you get him for a 2nd rounder, go ahead, you have a cheap backup for 1.5 years. If you get him for a lottery pick hoping him to improve a lot, that's not based on watching the games, thus delusional. And if you give a lottery pick expecting a cheap backup for 1.5 years - that's just bad business.

Not to mention the way we are playing noone knows where we end up in the draft. Noone makes trades on a pure hope you'll be out of the lotto - that's just naive. We may as well be top 5 lotto pick or 8th seed in the playoffs for all i know - nothing Pacers have shown so far exclude these possibilities.

Justin Tyme
11-13-2010, 11:19 PM
Mostly because I don't think he's worth it I suppose?... Have you guys been watching Kings? That guy and Hawes were supposed to be their cornerstones a year and a half ago. Then they got Evans and realised what a real young cornerstone looks like. He's been given as much rope as any young guy, and was exactly the same player for 2 years. It's not like he has a ton of potential.

If you get him for a 2nd rounder, go ahead, you have a cheap backup for 1.5 years. If you get him for a lottery pick hoping him to improve a lot, that's not based on watching the games, thus delusional. And if you give a lottery pick expecting a cheap backup for 1.5 years - that's just bad business.

Not to mention the way we are playing noone knows where we end up in the draft. Noone makes trades on a pure hope you'll be out of the lotto - that's just naive. We may as well be top 5 lotto pick or 8th seed in the playoffs for all i know - nothing Pacers have shown so far exclude these possibilities.



Seldom do you get something of value for nothing. A 2nd pick isn't going to get Thompson w/o some "real" sweetner to go along with it.

beast23
11-14-2010, 01:57 AM
Wow just because the Kings have been tading for or drafting players at Thompson's positions doesn't mean cannot be a starter or a good player. They got Dalembart , an EXPIRING, for some of their long term contracts. They drafted Cousins because he was the best player available at 5. and they traded for Landry when Thompson was still new to the NBA and he's a PF. JT is more of a center. Some of you really wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder for him? Really???????? Hibbert/ Mcroberts starting and Tyler and Thompson coming off the bench would be awesome!!! If we are doing this good with just Hibbert , tyler, and josh then with Thompson, we could have one of the best back up frontcourts.

We need Thompson. We need a backup center. Maybe the reason thompson is not playing good this season is because he keeps getting pushed back in the depth charts. That doesn't mean he isn't capable of playing good. Really if I were the Kings why not start cousins at center. Let's see if he can play first. Remember it's only like 7-10 games into the season.

I would give up DJones Solo and a 2nd rounder for sure. or even look to get into a multi team trade.Agree with most of what you state. However, Thompson is a better PF than center, not the other way around. He is decent in the paint, but also has a midrange shot out to about 18 feet. His defensive skills would enable him to play either position.

Dalembert and Landry are both on their final contract years. Why the Kings would trade Thompson at this point is beyond me. Although he is their fourth big, he along with Cousins would become their only bigs if the choose not to re-sign Dalembert and Landry bolts through FA.

Last season, he played over 30 minutes a game and averaged 12 and 8. I think that is pretty decent numbers for a rookie and shows good durability.

I've been a very vocal advocate of attempting acquire Thompson. Just a few weeks ago, I would have thought that it would take quite a bit to get him and that our similiarly sized contracts just didn't provide a player of similar talents to get the trade done.

But this season, I believe the Kings have devalued him by relegating him to the the level of 4th big. Prior to the season, I would have said that Thompson is better than either of McRoberts and Hansbrough. I'm not so sure of that right now, but I still believe he and Hansbrough would fit into long-term plans for the Pacers, whereas McRoberts, even though he is the current starter, probably does not.

I also suggested using Rush to acquire Thompson, but would not do so at this time. If the Kings were willing to pull the trigger, considering that Thompson is now their 4th big, I would try to get him by offering McRoberts, SJones and a 2nd round pick.

I wouldn't be willing to give up a first round pick this early in the seaon to get Thompson. That pick might be very valuable to help get a starting quality player around the trade deadline or in a trade next summer.

One thing to keep in mind is that Thompson would be an excellent backup center for Hibbert while also more than capable of either coming off the bench or even starting at PF, depending on our success at acquiring a free agent PF next summer.

At the present time, our front court will be Hibbert, McRoberts and Hansbrough with fill in by Posey in 2011/2012. I doubt that Foster and SJones will be here after this season. Whether we get Thompson or not, we will likely be looking for a very good veteran PF next summer. It just seems to me as though acquiring a PF/C in Thompson along with that additional veteran PF would give 4 very strong players in our frontcourt, with both positions adequately covered.

Justin Tyme
11-14-2010, 08:42 AM
Agree with most of what you state. However, Thompson is a better PF than center, not the other way around. He is decent in the paint, but also has a midrange shot out to about 18 feet. His defensive skills would enable him to play either position.

Dalembert and Landry are both on their final contract years. Why the Kings would trade Thompson at this point is beyond me. Although he is their fourth big, he along with Cousins would become their only bigs if the choose not to re-sign Dalembert and Landry bolts through FA.

Last season, he played over 30 minutes a game and averaged 12 and 8. I think that is pretty decent numbers for a rookie and shows good durability.

I've been a very vocal advocate of attempting acquire Thompson. Just a few weeks ago, I would have thought that it would take quite a bit to get him and that our similiarly sized contracts just didn't provide a player of similar talents to get the trade done.

But this season, I believe the Kings have devalued him by relegating him to the the level of 4th big. Prior to the season, I would have said that Thompson is better than either of McRoberts and Hansbrough. I'm not so sure of that right now, but I still believe he and Hansbrough would fit into long-term plans for the Pacers, whereas McRoberts, even though he is the current starter, probably does not.

I also suggested using Rush to acquire Thompson, but would not do so at this time. If the Kings were willing to pull the trigger, considering that Thompson is now their 4th big, I would try to get him by offering McRoberts, SJones and a 2nd round pick.

I wouldn't be willing to give up a first round pick this early in the seaon to get Thompson. That pick might be very valuable to help get a starting quality player around the trade deadline or in a trade next summer.

One thing to keep in mind is that Thompson would be an excellent backup center for Hibbert while also more than capable of either coming off the bench or even starting at PF, depending on our success at acquiring a free agent PF next summer.

At the present time, our front court will be Hibbert, McRoberts and Hansbrough with fill in by Posey in 2011/2012. I doubt that Foster and SJones will be here after this season. Whether we get Thompson or not, we will likely be looking for a very good veteran PF next summer. It just seems to me as though acquiring a PF/C in Thompson along with that additional veteran PF would give 4 very strong players in our frontcourt, with both positions adequately covered.

Great post! If those that can't see acquiring Thompson don't understand your post, they never will understand his value to the Pacers. Some just don't see the forest for the trees. Great point about Dalembert and Landry being FA after this year. I don't see the Kings trading him for a bag of stale chips like many feel Thompson is worth. As the old saying goes "you gotta give to get" and poo poo platters deluxe that some want to offer isn't going to get the the job done.

pacers74
11-14-2010, 09:00 AM
Thompson is the best big man that is potentially available right now. I don't know if anyone else will come available, but I think we have to try and get him. Landry has over achieved his whole career. That and Cousins is the guy they want at center is why Thompson is not playing. I owuld love to try and get Landry this summer, but he is only a PF. Thompson can come in and play PF and C. He would get at least 25 minutes here and would produce. He can shoot a jumper and rebound and defend.

I just don't see why we shouldn't try and get him. Rush and a 1st sounds about right.

ballism
11-14-2010, 11:03 AM
I'd give McRoberts + Solo + 2nd rounder for him, sure. Not that Kings would accept it. Why trade a backup big with 1.5 cheap years left (Thompson) for a less versatile backup big with 0.5 cheap year left (McRoberts) + 2nd rounder?
And no, adding Solomon Jones won't make the deal sweeter. Solo gets paid 100k per rebound, that's not what Kings would consider a 'sweetener'.

I'd be very surprised if Kings take any of our trash + 2nd rounder for him. Seems we all agree here.
What I don't get is why some ppl suddenly go 'u can't get value for nothing' and start talking about lottery picks. He's not worth it. Best deals sometimes are the deals that don't get made. Are you always willing to overpay when you want something? No, you go to another shop and spend your assets wisely.

Larry should make a call, hear the price, and hang up as soon as he hears 'lottery pick'.
We have picks, we have young talent and lots of cap space. The last thing I want is us giving those assets away for backups and then having another decade of mediocrity.

Edit - I was replying to this beast23 post:



I also suggested using Rush to acquire Thompson, but would not do so at this time. If the Kings were willing to pull the trigger, considering that Thompson is now their 4th big, I would try to get him by offering McRoberts, SJones and a 2nd round pick.

I wouldn't be willing to give up a first round pick this early in the seaon to get Thompson. That pick might be very valuable to help get a starting quality player around the trade deadline or in a trade next summer.

Mackey_Rose
11-14-2010, 11:07 AM
Thompson is the best big man that is potentially available right now. I don't know if anyone else will come available, but I think we have to try and get him. Landry has over achieved his whole career. That and Cousins is the guy they want at center is why Thompson is not playing. I owuld love to try and get Landry this summer, but he is only a PF. Thompson can come in and play PF and C. He would get at least 25 minutes here and would produce. He can shoot a jumper and rebound and defend.

I just don't see why we shouldn't try and get him. Rush and a 1st sounds about right.

If we trade Rush and a 1st round pick for Jason Thompson my head will explode. He isn't worth Rush or a 1st round pick, let alone both.

Peck
11-14-2010, 01:42 PM
I don't know if the salaries match up or not but if they would take Rush straight up for Thompson I would do it.

If Roy Hibbert gets sick or injured right now we are screwed.

While I have no hate for Rush we have several wings and even though he is not as good we can use D. Jones.

Backup center on the other hand is S. Jones & while I think he is fine in spot min. the thought of him having to play for an extended period or God forbid start :shudder: makes me somewhat ill.

Justin Tyme
11-14-2010, 03:05 PM
If we trade Rush and a 1st round pick for Jason Thompson my head will explode. He isn't worth Rush or a 1st round pick, let alone both.


Rush type players are far easier to get than Thompson type players. There are reasons why teams are short on good quality bigs, and SG players, like Rush, are sitting on benches looking for minutes. If quality bigs were easy to get, the Pacers wouldn't be starting McBob. Sorry, but the truth is the truth.

MLB007
11-14-2010, 03:07 PM
Thompson is the best big man that is potentially available right now. I don't know if anyone else will come available, but I think we have to try and get him. Landry has over achieved his whole career. That and Cousins is the guy they want at center is why Thompson is not playing. I owuld love to try and get Landry this summer, but he is only a PF. Thompson can come in and play PF and C. He would get at least 25 minutes here and would produce. He can shoot a jumper and rebound and defend.

I just don't see why we shouldn't try and get him. Rush and a 1st sounds about right.

A starter (with huge potential he is showing) and a 1st for a guy that isn't a starter.
WOW, am I glad you aren't our GM> :dance::buddies:

MLB007
11-14-2010, 03:08 PM
I don't know if the salaries match up or not but if they would take Rush straight up for Thompson I would do it.

If Roy Hibbert gets sick or injured right now we are screwed.

While I have no hate for Rush we have several wings and even though he is not as good we can use D. Jones.

Backup center on the other hand is S. Jones & while I think he is fine in spot min. the thought of him having to play for an extended period or God forbid start :shudder: makes me somewhat ill.

Jeff is due back next game and you know that. ???????

MLB007
11-14-2010, 03:10 PM
Rush type players are far easier to get than Thompson type players. There are reasons why teams are short on good quality bigs, and SG players, like Rush, are sitting on benches looking for minutes. If quality bigs were easy to get, the Pacers wouldn't be starting McBob. Sorry, but the truth is the truth.

The truth is that SG that play 1ST TEAM ALL DEFENSE (it's coming) are NOT far easier to find NOR are they sitting on benches.
You are right about one thing.
The truth IS the truth.

xBulletproof
11-14-2010, 03:10 PM
SG players, like Rush, are sitting on benches looking for minutes.

Isn't that the same thing Thompson is doing?

BringJackBack
11-14-2010, 03:12 PM
The people on the Jason Thompson side are waay underrating the value of a first round pick and the people on the no Thompson side are really overrating the value of Rush.. just my opinion of course..

Fun fact: Red Auerbach never ever ever wanted to trade a first round pick.

BringJackBack
11-14-2010, 03:14 PM
The truth is that SG that play 1ST TEAM ALL DEFENSE (it's coming) are NOT far easier to find NOR are they sitting on benches.
You are right about one thing.
The truth IS the truth.

Rushes offense probably won't ever come around enough to be a starter when he is defensively in his prime.. he'll probably be a 7th/8th man like Mikael Pietrus or Tony Allen last year.

ballism
11-14-2010, 03:55 PM
Personally, i wouldn't hate Rush for Thompson, but wouldn't love it either. Seems like a slightly better player for bigger need type of trade. Which is ok-ish. I suppose that leaves us with no long term 2 guard. But with Paul George, pick and cap space, that's not a huge problem.

I'm not sure if Kings would do it. They are fine using Evans as a combo 2 right now along with Udrih, and Garcia is giving good minutes off the bench. But really, that's 2 players at Rush level. I guess you would love to get a proven starter in this situation. But trading away your 4th big for a 4th guard doesn't make much sense.

Peck
11-14-2010, 05:40 PM
Jeff is due back next game and you know that. ???????

My point still stands, if Roy Hibbert goes down we are screwed.

Jeff is not what he once was, in fact he even had a game of not being dressed and this was before the ankle injury.

There was a tweet last week sometime by Michael Grady where someone asked him directly if he thought Jeff would be a contributer this year and his reply was pretty much that Jeff's only role now with the team is going to be big brother on the bench & spot min. here & there.

MLB007
11-14-2010, 08:01 PM
Rushes offense probably won't ever come around enough to be a starter when he is defensively in his prime.. he'll probably be a 7th/8th man like Mikael Pietrus or Tony Allen last year.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.
His upside is WAY more than Pietrus. :)

MLB007
11-14-2010, 08:04 PM
Oh, well, what All star caliber starter would that NOT be the case for??

My understanding has been that he was still working his way back and just to the point of working hard (and going to play) when he sprained his ankle.

Who is Michael Grady?
As for his comment, I think Solo's play will have more to do with that then anything.
And so far it looks like we need Jeff.

BringJackBack
11-14-2010, 08:05 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree then.
His upside is WAY more than Pietrus. :)

It can be way more than Pietrus if he wants it to be. If he puts it together and actually figures out how talented is than I agree. But based on the past it doesn't seem too likely that he will figure it out. If he never figures out how many shots he should be taking then he won't get the opportunities that he is capable of getting.

How good do you think a career year will be for him?

BringJackBack
11-14-2010, 08:07 PM
Jeff is not what he once was, in fact he even had a game of not being dressed and this was before the ankle injury.

.

Jeff may not be as good as he once was,
but he's as good once,
as he ever was.

:D

Peck
11-14-2010, 08:10 PM
Oh, well, what All star caliber starter would that NOT be the case for??

My understanding has been that he was still working his way back and just to the point of working hard (and going to play) when he sprained his ankle.

Who is Michael Grady?
As for his comment, I think Solo's play will have more to do with that then anything.
And so far it looks like we need Jeff.

PA announcer for the Indiana Pacers and also producer @1070 the fan as well as frequent contributer to local news broadcast.

Here he is visiting Pacers crate

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/crate.html

imawhat
11-14-2010, 08:19 PM
Rush type players are far easier to get than Thompson type players. There are reasons why teams are short on good quality bigs, and SG players, like Rush, are sitting on benches looking for minutes. If quality bigs were easy to get, the Pacers wouldn't be starting McBob. Sorry, but the truth is the truth.

Average big men are a lot easier to find than near elite defenders that are also near elite three point shooters.

beast23
11-14-2010, 10:42 PM
The truth is that SG that play 1ST TEAM ALL DEFENSE (it's coming) are NOT far easier to find NOR are they sitting on benches.
You are right about one thing.
The truth IS the truth.Gee wiz. Let's not get carried away here. Rush is a very decent man-on-man defender. He is by no means an elite defender. However, I would agree with you that is not easy to find a player that has both decent offensive AND defensive skills at SG.

I am curious about the "new Rush". We've only seen a couple of games so far, but he has shown a more aggressive game on the offensive end than last season... at least so far. If possible, I would like to retain Rush to see just how far he has come. But - I also would not want to miss an opportunity to get Thompson. But - at the very least, I would want to buy some time to evaluate Rush. So, it's easy to see where this goes... it just bounces back and forth whether we would want to quickly jump and and trade Rush for Thompson.

I do think that the suggestion of Rush for Thompson that has been made by Peck and a couple others is the most reasonable straight up trade that the Pacers could make.

And, Peck is right about something else. If Hibbert goes down, we have no adequate backup that can fill in for him. SJones certainly can't cut it. Foster might have a decent game or two in fill in, but certainly is no longer capable of holding down the fort night in and night out.

So, from my perspective, the only rotational players that could be used for obtaining Thompson are Rush and McRoberts. It has been mentioned that next year's draft will be lean on talent and that even a late lottery pick might not provide a rotational player. If that is truly the belief by Bird as well, then the only redeeming value for a first round choice is its use in making a trade.

At this time, Rush is our 4th SG/SF. We do have other players that can be used in a pinch to fill in for him.... for example DJones. It is no secret that we have very little quality depth in our frontcourt... we have Hibbert, McRoberts and Hansbrough... with the promise that Foster will return soon. But our biggest concern with this personnel is center.

Last season, Thompson started 58 of his 71 games played. He averaged 32 minutes, 12.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and even 1.7 assists. He would significantly strengthen our frontcourt and would eliminate our risk in the event that Hibbert becomes injured. Thompson has dropped to 4th big basically because Dalembert is healthy and the best player available to them in last year's draft at pick #4 was Cousins... a PF/C.

We have some combination of Rush, McRoberts and draft picks available. If the Kings were interested, we would also have SJones and DJones available. Surely we would be able to come up with some combination to compel the Kings to at least discuss a possible trade.

Justin Tyme
11-14-2010, 10:58 PM
Average big men are a lot easier to find than near elite defenders that are also near elite three point shooters.


It would be nice if Mr. Inconsistant had some consistancy. That's why he's a b/u SG. That's why Bird was going to trade him last year to Charlotte until MJ changed his mind. That's why if he doesn't get it together this season, I don't expect to see him in a Pacers uni next season. They drafted his replacement last year in PG.

Tell that to those teams that don't have average big men. There is a reason "average" big men get overpaid... due to the short supply of big men.
GM's are constantly looking for Bigs to draft b/c they are needing Bigs. SG's are a dime a dozen. If the Kings decide to trade Thompson, they will have plenty of teams wanting him no matter what you think of him.

I'm done discussing this with you. You don't see my view, and I don't agree with yours. Good evening.

Mackey_Rose
11-14-2010, 11:39 PM
It would be nice if Mr. Inconsistant had some consistancy. That's why he's a b/u SG. That's why Bird was going to trade him last year to Charlotte until MJ changed his mind. That's why if he doesn't get it together this season, I don't expect to see him in a Pacers uni next season. They drafted his replacement last year in PG.

Tell that to those teams that don't have average big men. There is a reason "average" big men get overpaid... due to the short supply of big men.
GM's are constantly looking for Bigs to draft b/c they are needing Bigs. SG's are a dime a dozen. If the Kings decide to trade Thompson, they will have plenty of teams wanting him no matter what you think of him.

I'm done discussing this with you. You don't see my view, and I don't agree with yours. Good evening.

I see your view.

You just view Thompson to be a hell of a lot better than he really is.

vnzla81
11-14-2010, 11:50 PM
I see your view.

You just view Thompson to be a hell of a lot better than he really is.

He almost average a double double last year(his second year) why people keep saying that he is not good? Wouldn't you say the same thing about Tyler and Josh?

xBulletproof
11-15-2010, 12:03 AM
He almost average a double double last year(his second year) why people keep saying that he is not good? Wouldn't you say the same thing about Tyler and Josh?

8.5 rebounds per isn't "almost" 10. So that's not "almost" a double double.

Even his per 36 wasn't a double double.

PacerGuy
11-15-2010, 12:12 AM
If the posters on PD are this excited about other peoples unwanted left-overs, then you all should all come over & help me clean out my fridge - I'm tierd of throwing away spoiled food.
(Hell, from the sounds of it, some of you might be willing to pay top-doller for it too!)

Thompson is #3 on his teams depth chart, yet we act like he is an All-Star.
(Too many years of watching bad basketball have affect many here.)
Thompson is OK, he is likely better then what we have, but being better does not make him good. He might be good w/ us, but lets keep things in check.

Mackey_Rose
11-15-2010, 12:16 AM
He almost average a double double last year(his second year) why people keep saying that he is not good? Wouldn't you say the same thing about Tyler and Josh?

Yes, I would say the exact same thing about Tyler and Josh if they put up the same kind of numbers. Haven't the dark years of Troy Murphy taught us that judging a player by the numbers he produces is mostly a pointless endeavor?

vnzla81
11-15-2010, 12:22 AM
Yes, I would say the exact same thing about Tyler and Josh if they put up the same kind of numbers. Haven't the dark years of Troy Murphy taught us that judging a player by the numbers he produces is mostly a pointless endeavor?

I agree, I just don't understand why so many people are against it, he seems like a really good young player that can do many things.

I'm open to bring other guys, I'm just saying that if the pacers have any chance to get him without giving away anything too valuable they should do it(I don't think a pick next year is that valuable)

Mackey_Rose
11-15-2010, 12:27 AM
I agree, I just don't understand why so many people are against it, he seems like a really good young player that can do many things.

I'm open to bring other guys, I'm just saying that if the pacers have any chance to get him without giving away anything too valuable they should do it(I don't think a pick next year is that valuable)

A 1st round pick, and Brandon Rush are both more valuable. I haven't seen anything else proposed, and I don't know what else could be proposed that the Kings would have any interest in.

beast23
11-15-2010, 12:33 AM
A 1st round pick, and Brandon Rush are both more valuable. I haven't seen anything else proposed, and I don't know what else could be proposed that the Kings would have any interest in.Just a couple of quick questions.

Is it your opinion that the 2011 draft will be thin on quality players?

If the answer to that question is yes, then do you see a 10-15 pick bringing in a player more valuable to us than Thompson?

Do you see Rush as being more valuable as a #4 wing to us than Thompson as a player that can back up both frontcourt positions?

vnzla81
11-15-2010, 12:38 AM
A 1st round pick, and Brandon Rush are both more valuable. I haven't seen anything else proposed, and I don't know what else could be proposed that the Kings would have any interest in.

Again because of the lockout a first round pick is not going to even bring you an starter next year, I'm pretty sure that many GMs know this too.

cdash
11-15-2010, 12:47 AM
Again because of the lockout a first round pick is not going to even bring you an starter next year, I'm pretty sure that many GMs know this too.

The problem with this line of thinking is that you are making an awful lot of assumptions. You are assuming that Thompson is good and can step in and help us right away (possible). You are assuming that there is going to be a lockout (safe bet probably). You are assuming that these kids will stay an extra year in college because of the lockout (this is where I'm not entirely certain I agree with you). I think there will certainly be a few cases of guys who will stay in school who otherwise wouldn't have, but a lot of other quality guys will still come out if their stock is high or they need money or they can't deal with school or whatever. I think the draft will be weak, but I still don't think it will be so weak that Jason Thompson will warrant a top 10-15 pick. He's a nice backup at PF and C, but I haven't really seen anything out of this guy that makes me believe he is a starting level PF or C. I'm in the camp that says if the Kings will take a second rounder+Solo or Dahntay, then by all means go for it. If they want a first round pick (or anything with any real value), then I'll pass. I think with our expiring contracts, cap flexibility, and the draft, we can find a better option.

Mackey_Rose
11-15-2010, 12:50 AM
Just a couple of quick questions.

Is it your opinion that the 2011 draft will be thin on quality players?

If the answer to that question is yes, then do you see a 10-15 pick bringing in a player more valuable to us than Thompson?

Do you see Rush as being more valuable as a #4 wing to us than Thompson as a player that can back up both frontcourt positions?

I don't care how thin a draft is, a lottery pick (which seems likely) is more valuable than Thompson. Yes, if we do our homework correctly we should be able to get a player of more value there. Look at our starters right now. With the exception of Dunleavy (who should not be starting) all of them were drafted below the range you detailed. Regardless of what you think the quality of the draft will be, there will be players available that could be better than Thompson.

Rush is not a fourth wing on this team. He won't be later this year, and he damned sure won't be next year. So yes, I see him as more valuable than Thompson.

vnzla81
11-15-2010, 12:54 AM
Edit: answer to cdash

I understand that some guys would come out(agents would find a way to pay them) the other issue many people forget is the quantity of players that came out last year because of this.

Like I said before if a good deal was made were we don't have to give up the pick I'm all for it, I just don't think is a reason to not make the deal.

IndyPacer
11-15-2010, 01:02 AM
Just a couple of quick questions.

Is it your opinion that the 2011 draft will be thin on quality players?

If the answer to that question is yes, then do you see a 10-15 pick bringing in a player more valuable to us than Thompson?

Do you see Rush as being more valuable as a #4 wing to us than Thompson as a player that can back up both frontcourt positions?

#4 wing? I'm not so sure he'll be there for long. He's the second most talented wing on this team after Granger. Rush is the best SG on this team, as well as the best defender and 3 point shooter.

Thompson might be more valuable if Hibbert was seriously injured, but even then I don't see this team going far with Thompson starting in Hibbert's absence. In most other scenarios, I'd prefer Rush.

I also think it's premature to bench either McRoberts or Hansbrough right now. Hansbrough is basically still a rookie. The only key issue that concerns me with our current situation is backup center.

imawhat
11-15-2010, 01:03 AM
It would be nice if Mr. Inconsistant had some consistancy. That's why he's a b/u SG. That's why Bird was going to trade him last year to Charlotte until MJ changed his mind. That's why if he doesn't get it together this season, I don't expect to see him in a Pacers uni next season. They drafted his replacement last year in PG.

Tell that to those teams that don't have average big men. There is a reason "average" big men get overpaid... due to the short supply of big men.
GM's are constantly looking for Bigs to draft b/c they are needing Bigs. SG's are a dime a dozen. If the Kings decide to trade Thompson, they will have plenty of teams wanting him no matter what you think of him.

I'm done discussing this with you. You don't see my view, and I don't agree with yours. Good evening.

We're miles apart in agreement, but believe me, I see your view.

I also agree that Brandon is inconsistent in his offensive effort, but let me say this: his defensive effort last season was the most consistent part of our team, so I have difficulty calling him Mr. Inconsistent. I think you should save that nickname for one of the other 14 Pacers, maybe Danny Granger.

Also, Brandon was 15th in the NBA in 3 point % and 32nd in 3 pointers made last season. He was 9th in rebounds for shooting guards, he averaged 9.4 points a game, and he was the only Pacer to play in all 82 games.

I'm assuming you've watched less than ten games of Jason Thompson. If you'd watched more, like I have, you'd see exactly why he's out of the rotation. You also would've noticed his attitude and might not want anything to do with him.

We need a big and he seems like a good gamble. I don't think he's a huge mistake at all, but you don't give away a guy making $2mil that excels at three different areas that your team sorely needs (rebounding, shooting and defense). Remove the coach and play a disciplined system and Rush becomes a very important piece of the puzzle.

pacers74
11-15-2010, 01:35 AM
Rush looks like he is back to the inconsistent player we all know. Believe me, I want him to be that player that everyone thinks he can be as much as anyone else. He looked great in his firat game back , but now he has scored 2 pts and 7 pts the last 2 games. If he keeps playing like this I would rather trade him and let PG play more.

I know the argument (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&&sa=X&ei=w8XgTMHMFMymnwfeluDkDw&ved=0CBcQvwUoAQ&q=argument&spell=1) will be, wait he is the best defender we have. I understand this thought, but I just don't see it. I would rather let PG and Dunleavy play. Their defense isn't horrible.

Eleazar
11-15-2010, 02:51 AM
Rush looks like he is back to the inconsistent player we all know. Believe me, I want him to be that player that everyone thinks he can be as much as anyone else. He looked great in his firat game back , but now he has scored 2 pts and 7 pts the last 2 games. If he keeps playing like this I would rather trade him and let PG play more.

I know the argument (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&&sa=X&ei=w8XgTMHMFMymnwfeluDkDw&ved=0CBcQvwUoAQ&q=argument&spell=1) will be, wait he is the best defender we have. I understand this thought, but I just don't see it. I would rather let PG and Dunleavy play. Their defense isn't horrible.

I don't think 3 game sis quite enough to judge that. Even though he had one poor shooting night he did shoot 3-5 and scored 7 points in 21 minutes, which is better than other players that everyone wants to be playing 25+ minutes a game.

He may never be the scorer that we want him to be, but at worst is an excellent back-up SG. Which is exactly what he will be once George figures out pro-ball.

cdash
11-15-2010, 03:03 AM
I understand this thought, but I just don't see it. I would rather let PG and Dunleavy play. Their defense isn't horrible.

Get ready to be reamed for that comment.

pacers74
11-15-2010, 04:27 AM
Get ready to be reamed for that comment.


I'll take whatever is thrown at me, but I just don't see where all of the Rush love is coming from. I really want to get on the Rush bandwagon and hope he proves me wrong. I just don't see it happening. He looked really good in that first game, but not in the last two. Isn't that where is problem lies, inconsistency.

cdash
11-15-2010, 04:38 AM
I'll take whatever is thrown at me, but I just don't see where all of the Rush love is coming from. I really want to get on the Rush bandwagon and hope he proves me wrong. I just don't see it happening. He looked really good in that first game, but not in the last two. Isn't that where is problem lies, inconsistency.

I agree. I know he is a good defender, but I think a lot of people overestimate just how good he is. I've seen people throw around first team all-NBA defender and stuff like that with him. He's a good defender--he's not an elite defender.

For what it's worth, the Kings offered Jason Thompson to Atlanta for Jeff Teague. Atlanta declined, as per Marc Stein's tweet.

pacers74
11-15-2010, 04:42 AM
Would they the Kings want TJ or AJ?

IndyPacer
11-15-2010, 07:59 AM
Would they the Kings want TJ or AJ?

I'd be all for trading Ford. He's an expiring plus he isn't playing as poorly as usual. He might play well in a different system.

ballism
11-15-2010, 08:14 AM
Would they the Kings want TJ or AJ?

Well they have Beno Udrih and Luther Head right now as PGs. + Tyreke Evans is playing combo 1-2 and handling the ball a lot. Beno is playing very well next to Evans so far. I suppose they wouldn't mind replacing Head with someone better, but Head is the 4th guard in rotation anyway, a 15 minutes guy.

So it's not like they are desperate in the backcourt and have a lot of minutes for TJ. I would be surprised to see them trading for a backup point.

That's why the Jeff Teague rumor sounded strange to me. But if that rumor is true, I suppose Rush or TJ might be enough.

vnzla81
11-15-2010, 08:51 AM
I agree. I know he is a good defender, but I think a lot of people overestimate just how good he is. I've seen people throw around first team all-NBA defender and stuff like that with him. He's a good defender--he's not an elite defender.

For what it's worth, the Kings offered Jason Thompson to Atlanta for Jeff Teague. Atlanta declined, as per Marc Stein's tweet.

So Sacramento must think really high on Thompson if they want Teague in return for him don't you think?

croz24
11-15-2010, 10:22 AM
the kings really don't have anything to match us in a deal involving ford. i'll stick with my idea of getting greene AND thompson. rush and a 2011 unprotected is too much for thompson by himself imo. thus, i feel we should look for a deal centered around rush + 2011 1st for thompson and greene.

price, rush, jones, and 2011 unprotected 1st for thompson and greene?

this deal would make us deeper and more talented at a position where we were lacking. it would give us an open roster spot to pick up a player or take an extra player back via a future trade. i'm sure many here wouldn't do it because of this board's obsession with price. but backup pgs are the easiest position to fill, and the pacers are lacking much more in the front court than in the back court. is greene necessary? i think so. dunleavy and posey are NOT in our future plans. getting greene would add much athleticism and potential to our wing positions.

ballism
11-15-2010, 10:29 AM
Rush for Thompson is ok-ish based on our needs, im there with you. The rest of the deal though is 11 unprotected + AJ for Greene, and that's where there is a gulf between us.
I guess Solo is there to make salaries work?

croz24
11-15-2010, 10:43 AM
Rush for Thompson is ok-ish based on our needs, im there with you. The rest of the deal though is 11 unprotected + AJ for Greene, and that's where there is a gulf between us.
I guess Solo is there to make salaries work?

same mindset that the hornets had with the collison trade. the hornets have their pg in paul. while collison is loaded in talent and proved to be one of the better rookies last year, he was a luxury for the hornets. collison for ariza on paper looks like a bad trade given age, potential, ability etc. but when you consider the fact that collison would play but 10-15mins a game as a back-up while ariza would instantly become your starting sf, ariza is far more valuable to the hornets than collison. same idea with price. back up pgs are easy to come by. when tj's gone, if he's not re-signed, price will be the backup and thus a luxury. if dealing that backup, even if he is more talented, helps you land a player at a more valuable position, even if slightly less skilled, then you should do it. jmo.

i added jones to make it more enticing for the pacers. getting rid of that garbage would open up a roster spot which is much much more valuable than jones' contributions to the team. the pacers need a quality pf/c more than they need a backup pg or a 2011 draft pick in arguably the weakest draft in over a decade.

daschysta
11-15-2010, 11:03 AM
Apparently the hawks just rejected a deal that would have landed them Jason Thompson for Jeff Teague.

Perhaps there is more interest from them for an AJ or a TJ afterall.

Eleazar
11-15-2010, 11:28 AM
same mindset that the hornets had with the collison trade. the hornets have their pg in paul. while collison is loaded in talent and proved to be one of the better rookies last year, he was a luxury for the hornets. collison for ariza on paper looks like a bad trade given age, potential, ability etc. but when you consider the fact that collison would play but 10-15mins a game as a back-up while ariza would instantly become your starting sf, ariza is far more valuable to the hornets than collison. same idea with price. back up pgs are easy to come by. when tj's gone, if he's not re-signed, price will be the backup and thus a luxury. if dealing that backup, even if he is more talented, helps you land a player at a more valuable position, even if slightly less skilled, then you should do it. jmo.

i added jones to make it more enticing for the pacers. getting rid of that garbage would open up a roster spot which is much much more valuable than jones' contributions to the team. the pacers need a quality pf/c more than they need a backup pg or a 2011 draft pick in arguably the weakest draft in over a decade.

I don't see how having a quality back-up PG is a luxury? Collison is good, but he isn't Chris Paul good. As well I think you are underestimating the importance of having a good bench when it comes to winning championships.

croz24
11-15-2010, 11:42 AM
I don't see how having a quality back-up PG is a luxury? Collison is good, but he isn't Chris Paul good. As well I think you are underestimating the importance of having a good bench when it comes to winning championships.

a starter-quality back up at pg when you have no starting sf is indeed a luxury. at that point it is in your team's interest to obtain a starter who is going to play 30mpg, for a back up who is going to play 15mpg.

are you attempting to argue that the pacers currently have a good bench? or that somehow aj price sitting each game in a suit is somehow contributing to our roster? if/when tj is gone, sure aj can be a solid backup pg for us. but a better backup pg can be had in the offseason. decent big men are much more difficult to come by.

and if it's a greene vs aj discussion, greene imo just has vastly more potential and ability than what aj has and can play multiple positions. again, pgs like aj price are not very difficult to find.

imawhat
11-15-2010, 11:49 AM
They need a PG pretty badly. Luther Head is playing backup minutes there.

Good rejection by Atlanta. They are thin at PG and don't need another big. Thompson had a pretty good game yesterday.

daschysta
11-15-2010, 11:57 AM
a starter-quality back up at pg when you have no starting sf is indeed a luxury. at that point it is in your team's interest to obtain a starter who is going to play 30mpg, for a back up who is going to play 15mpg.

are you attempting to argue that the pacers currently have a good bench? or that somehow aj price sitting each game in a suit is somehow contributing to our roster? if/when tj is gone, sure aj can be a solid backup pg for us. but a better backup pg can be had in the offseason. decent big men are much more difficult to come by.

and if it's a greene vs aj discussion, greene imo just has vastly more potential and ability than what aj has and can play multiple positions. again, pgs like aj price are not very difficult to find.

This is true, if AJ and some filler like D jones is all that it would take to get Thompson you have to do it. More than that though, it becomes murky.

Point guard is currently the strongest position in the NBA imo. Finding a decent one isn't very hard. Don't let the Pacers difficulties at the PG fool you, as we really have been one of the very few clubs in the league that didn't have at least one half decent PG until recently, and even then guys like Earl Watson and even to an extent JJ are easily obtainable and servicable, while a decent big is far more coveted (usually) I don't know exactly what Jason Thompson has done to deserve benching, but if Westphaul is just benching him for the benifit of Landy it may be in our best interest to pick him up on the cheap, he can back up center and could settle in to start at PF ( though I think tyler will end up being better than him.

Trophy
11-15-2010, 12:02 PM
They've tried Thompson at SF. That team just has no place for him. He is far from a SF.

NapTonius Monk
11-15-2010, 12:08 PM
They've tried Thompson at SF. That team just has no place for him. He is far from a SF.
Yep. Jason Thompson would be a nice PF option for this team. He's better than McBoberts.

croz24
11-15-2010, 12:12 PM
adding thompson, even at the expense of rush, greatly enhances our bench as jones would no longer see minutes. knowing job though, he might still play jones over hansbrough.

vnzla81
11-15-2010, 12:15 PM
adding thompson, even at the expense of rush, greatly enhances our bench as jones would no longer see minutes. knowing job though, he might still play jones over hansbrough.

Mike Wells was in a radio interview and said that Brush value in the league right now is next to cero, if he is included in any deal is going to be as a filler not as the main part.

Justin Tyme
11-15-2010, 12:18 PM
Good rejection by Atlanta. They are thin at PG and don't need another big. Thompson had a pretty good game yesterday.


LOL! Listed below are all those bigs are that Atlanta has that they don't need another 4/5 that averaged 10/8 last year on a cheap contract?

Josh Powell... ex-Pacer(34% FG)
Jason Collins
Zaza Pachulia
Etan Thomas... not sure he's even played this season.

I wouldn't trade McBob for any of them, and I'm not even a McBob fan.

croz24
11-15-2010, 12:19 PM
mike wells is an idiot and i will never take what he has to say to have any merit

that said, thus the reason all of my proposals for thompson include a 2011 1st, or a 2011 1st and price to go with rush.

Justin Tyme
11-15-2010, 12:23 PM
are you attempting to argue that the pacers currently have a good bench? or that somehow aj price sitting each game in a suit is somehow contributing to our roster? if/when tj is gone, sure aj can be a solid backup pg for us. but a better backup pg can be had in the offseason. decent big men are much more difficult to come by.

and if it's a greene vs aj discussion, greene imo just has vastly more potential and ability than what aj has and can play multiple positions. again, pgs like aj price are not very difficult to find.

Couldn't agree more.

Hibbert
11-15-2010, 12:31 PM
The 2006 NBA Draft, considered by many the worst draft ever still produced Brandon Roy at no. 6, Rudy Gay at no.8, Rajon Rondo at no. 21, and Paul Milsap at no. 47. Lockout or not, this years draft looks better than 2006. If we draft anywhere from 8-13, which is where I think we end up, we can get a valuable player, one with more value than Jason Thompson. He has good size and he can rebound but he is horrible on the defensive end, really bad. I have not seen him play this year so I'm not sure if he has improved on this at all but from watching him play last year he was awful on defense and in the post. There is a reason though for his minutes getting spilt in half from last year. That said, I would take him over Tyler or even do a 1 for 1 trade swap of the two.

croz24
11-15-2010, 12:46 PM
The 2006 NBA Draft, considered by many the worst draft ever still produced Brandon Roy at no. 6, Rudy Gay at no.8, Rajon Rondo at no. 21, and Paul Milsap at no. 47. Lockout or not, this years draft looks better than 2006. If we draft anywhere from 8-13, which is where I think we end up, we can get a valuable player, one with more value than Jason Thompson. He has good size and he can rebound but he is horrible on the defensive end, really bad. I have not seen him play this year so I'm not sure if he has improved on this at all but from watching him play last year he was awful on defense and in the post. There is a reason though for his minutes getting spilt in half from last year. That said, I would take him over Tyler or even do a 1 for 1 trade swap of the two.

the 2000 draft was much worse but in 2006, you failed to point out a big man who was able to come in and contribute right away. aldridge was just about it...as for the 2011 draft, there are literally zero established college players worth a damn in that draft. it will be nothing but a crapshoot taking a chance on some one-year freshman.

daschysta
11-15-2010, 12:47 PM
the 2000 draft was much worse but in 2006, you failed to point out a big man who was able to come in and contribute right away. aldridge was just about it...as for the 2011 draft, there are literally zero established college players worth a damn in that draft. it will be nothing but a crapshoot taking a chance on some one-year freshman.

To be fair taking a chance on one-year freshmen beats taking a chance on some unproven high school kids like back in 2000. Lance would have likely been a high lottery pick had he been allowed to come right out of high school, considering his advanced body and production at that level. You can learn quite a bit from a year of college, huge busts in the lottery have been less common since that rule was implemented.

croz24
11-15-2010, 12:55 PM
To be fair taking a chance on one-year freshmen beats taking a chance on some unproven high school kids like back in 2000. Lance would have likely been a high lottery pick had he been allowed to come right out of high school, considering his advanced body and production at that level. You can learn quite a bit from a year of college, huge busts in the lottery have been less common since that rule was implemented.

which is what makes the 2011 draft even sadder. those freshmen have nowhere to go but down from where they are hyped to be right now.

Part Timer
11-15-2010, 12:55 PM
LOL! Listed below are all those bigs are that Atlanta has that they don't need another 4/5 that averaged 10/8 last year on a cheap contract?

Josh Powell... ex-Pacer(34% FG)
Jason Collins
Zaza Pachulia
Etan Thomas... not sure he's even played this season.

I wouldn't trade McBob for any of them, and I'm not even a McBob fan.

And yet Atlanta still declined the offer for Thompson. Could be posturing for more I suppose.

Mackey_Rose
11-15-2010, 12:57 PM
And yet Atlanta still declined the offer for Thompson. Could be posturing for more I suppose.

Or more likely, Teague is just a better player than Thompson.

Part Timer
11-15-2010, 01:01 PM
Or more likely, Teague is just a better player than Thompson.

Without knowing anything more about the alleged proposal, it would seem that both Atlanta and Scaramento might agree with you.

imawhat
11-15-2010, 01:04 PM
LOL! Listed below are all those bigs are that Atlanta has that they don't need another 4/5 that averaged 10/8 last year on a cheap contract?

Josh Powell... ex-Pacer(34% FG)
Jason Collins
Zaza Pachulia
Etan Thomas... not sure he's even played this season.

I wouldn't trade McBob for any of them, and I'm not even a McBob fan.

And trading Teague leaves Atlanta with a starting pg in his thirteenth season and no backups.

Atlanta's GM probably laughed harder than you at such a stupid trade request.

Hibbert
11-15-2010, 01:32 PM
the 2000 draft was much worse but in 2006, you failed to point out a big man who was able to come in and contribute right away. aldridge was just about it...as for the 2011 draft, there are literally zero established college players worth a damn in that draft. it will be nothing but a crapshoot taking a chance on some one-year freshman.

Who says we need to get a big in the draft next year? I'd rather acquire one in free agency or trade. I want the Pacers to draft Alec Burks next year and he is not a big he plays SG out of Colorado. There is plenty of talent next year whether they are 1 and done players or not.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 01:37 PM
Who says we need to get a big in the draft next year? I'd rather acquire one in free agency or trade. I want the Pacers to draft Alec Burks next year and he is not a big he plays SG out of Colorado. There is plenty of talent next year whether they are 1 and done players or not.

he wouldnt sniff the floor specially if job is the coach

Hibbert
11-15-2010, 01:47 PM
he wouldnt sniff the floor specially if job is the coach
Next year we only have Rush and D. Jones under contract at SG, unless you count Lance. I think Burks would get plenty of minutes.

Eleazar
11-15-2010, 01:49 PM
a starter-quality back up at pg when you have no starting sf is indeed a luxury. at that point it is in your team's interest to obtain a starter who is going to play 30mpg, for a back up who is going to play 15mpg.

are you attempting to argue that the pacers currently have a good bench? or that somehow aj price sitting each game in a suit is somehow contributing to our roster? if/when tj is gone, sure aj can be a solid backup pg for us. but a better backup pg can be had in the offseason. decent big men are much more difficult to come by.

and if it's a greene vs aj discussion, greene imo just has vastly more potential and ability than what aj has and can play multiple positions. again, pgs like aj price are not very difficult to find.

I'm not trying to argue that the Pacers have a good bench, and neither am I trying to argue that AJ sitting on the bench is helping. Do you take me for an idiot?

What I am arguing is that AJ is a damn good PG, and unless we have a player of Chris Paul's caliber starting in front of him it would be stupid to trade him for someone who has just as good of chance being our starting PF of the future as players already on the team.

Somehow AJ has been the best player in practice for the past 2 seasons, but wasn't even given a chance to compete for the starting PG job. It was just given to Collison because he was assumed to be better and just needed to learn the system, and Ford for only JOB and God know why. At the same time when given the opportunity in games his play translates from practice.

Also honestly I think most PG's in this league are ****. Then again unlike most people I look for PG's that make their team better, not PG's that put up amazing stats.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 01:49 PM
Next year we only have Rush and D. Jones under contract at SG, unless you count Lance. I think Burks would get plenty of minutes.

we are cutting Paul???????:cry::cry::cry::cry:

oxxo
11-15-2010, 01:50 PM
Thompson for unprotected 1st? for Rush + 2nd? Rush + 1ST!?!?!?!!?

I'm sorry, but people here are VASTLY overrating him. Don't just go off the stats.

I'll say the same thing that others that have actually watched him play before have said: He is nothing special. Not even close.

Also have to keep in mind he's what, 3rd or 4th string? He's not a guy who had no opportunity to prove himself either like how we got JO for cheap. He's had his chance and has proven nothing.

At BEST I'd give a 2nd for him. That's it.

Hibbert
11-15-2010, 01:51 PM
we are cutting Paul???????:cry::cry::cry::cry:

He's a 3

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 01:52 PM
He's a 3

no he is more of a 2 and he is gonna be our future sg

croz24
11-15-2010, 01:53 PM
Who says we need to get a big in the draft next year? I'd rather acquire one in free agency or trade. I want the Pacers to draft Alec Burks next year and he is not a big he plays SG out of Colorado. There is plenty of talent next year whether they are 1 and done players or not.

nobody. but i believe that individual was talking about big men who can come in and contribute right away and therefore i referenced that in my post...even still, there are no power forwards i would want to give a long-term contract to who will be free agents next year. really the only good option we have is to acquire one via trade. one and done players is all the 2011 draft is about. of those players, only a couple actually merit the hype.

Hibbert
11-15-2010, 01:58 PM
no he is more of a 2 and he is gonna be our future sg

I didn't know that Larry.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 01:59 PM
I didn't know that Larry.

now u do

croz24
11-15-2010, 02:01 PM
I'm not trying to argue that the Pacers have a good bench, and neither am I trying to argue that AJ sitting on the bench is helping. Do you take me for an idiot?

What I am arguing is that AJ is a damn good PG, and unless we have a player of Chris Paul's caliber starting in front of him it would be stupid to trade him for someone who has just as good of chance being our starting PF of the future as players already on the team.

Somehow AJ has been the best player in practice for the past 2 seasons, but wasn't even given a chance to compete for the starting PG job. It was just given to Collison because he was assumed to be better and just needed to learn the system, and Ford for only JOB and God know why. At the same time when given the opportunity in games his play translates from practice.

Also honestly I think most PG's in this league are ****. Then again unlike most people I look for PG's that make their team better, not PG's that put up amazing stats.

the point we are trying to make is that backup pgs of aj price's caliber do come around often and can be had rather cheaply. the fact remains, aj price is a 3rd string suit right now behind two superior pgs in collison and ford. meanwhile, the pacers have no legit starting power forward. i'm sorry but the starting power forward spot is a lot more important right now than our 3rd string 41% shooting pg. quality bigs are also much more difficult to come by. if you can obtain one, and you have to give up your 3rd string pg in the process, you should probably make the trade.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 02:01 PM
dunleavy is the starting SG and he is SF. Paul has way more skill then dunleavy in reguards to being able to play SG.

croz24
11-15-2010, 02:05 PM
dunleavy is the starting SG and he is SF. Paul has way more skill then dunleavy in reguards to being able to play SG.

and paul george was found guarding chris paul on multiple occasions in a preseason game earlier this year. as a sg, dunleavy can even come close to attempting that. george can most definitely play sg once he refines his handles.

Hibbert
11-15-2010, 02:05 PM
now u do

His game screams SF and that's his natural position. Starting SG of the future is pretty bold statement considering he played himself out of the current playing rotation, one that is the Indiana Pacers of all teams. Good to know you can see into the future.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 02:07 PM
His game screams SF and that's his natural position. Starting SG of the future is pretty bold statement considering he played himself out of the current playing rotation, one that is the Indiana Pacers of all teams. Good to know you can see into the future.

come back in 5 yr and let me know who is the staring SG. (2much4u))

Eleazar
11-15-2010, 02:30 PM
the point we are trying to make is that backup pgs of aj price's caliber do come around often and can be had rather cheaply. the fact remains, aj price is a 3rd string suit right now behind two superior pgs in collison and ford. meanwhile, the pacers have no legit starting power forward. i'm sorry but the starting power forward spot is a lot more important right now than our 3rd string 41% shooting pg. quality bigs are also much more difficult to come by. if you can obtain one, and you have to give up your 3rd string pg in the process, you should probably make the trade.

Yes, because despite every time he has been given a chance he has played better than Ford and at the very least as good as Collison means he is playing behind two "superior" PGs who have in no way played better than him when he has been given a chance to play on this team.

Also unless you are talking about vets who have already hit their peak, which AJ has done neither, I don't see that many PGs out there as good as AJ that can be had for cheap.


I feel like I am back on the ESPN board.

Justin Tyme
11-15-2010, 02:37 PM
And yet Atlanta still declined the offer for Thompson. Could be posturing for more I suppose.


I could be wrong, but what I remember reading it indicated there was more than just those players involved. Possibly a pick or another player? It may be something else caused the deal to not happen. Whatever the reason it doesn't hurt my feelings Atlanta didn't get him.(I was never in favor of the Harrington coming back.)

Justin Tyme
11-15-2010, 02:45 PM
He's a 3


Horsefeathers n hogwash! He was drafted to be Rush's replacement.

Sookie
11-15-2010, 02:48 PM
Jeez, according to the ESPN trade thing (I don't know if it's accurate) Sac has enough cap space to just do a straight up TJ for Thompson trade.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 02:54 PM
Jeez, according to the ESPN trade thing (I don't know if it's accurate) Sac has enough cap space to just do a straight up TJ for Thompson trade.

ya it is accurate they have 13mill in cap space i belive

Trophy
11-15-2010, 02:55 PM
From a few statements regarding our wing players, here's what I think.

For another few more weeks (depending on how we're doing) this should be our wing rotation

SG Dunleavy/Rush
SF Granger/George

If JOB isn't ready to give Paul a lot of time yet, then he can backup Danny and get about 15-20 minutes a night.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 02:57 PM
From a few statements regarding our wing players, here's what I think.

For another few more weeks (depending on how we're doing) this should be our wing rotation

SG Dunleavy/Rush
SF Granger/George

If JOB isn't ready to give Paul a lot of time yet, then he can backup Danny and get about 15-20 minutes a night.

Mike should be backup 3 thats his natural postion

Trophy
11-15-2010, 03:05 PM
Mike should be backup 3 thats his natural postion

By the way he's been playing, I think he should only be starting at the 2 position, but when we bring in Brandon and/or Paul off the bench, Mike would then slide over to the 3 when Danny's not out there.

So when Danny is out there, Mike is playing the 2, but when Brandon and/or Paul are playing out there with Mike, he's playing the 3.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 03:09 PM
By the way he's been playing, I think he should only be starting at the 2 position, but when we bring in Brandon and/or Paul off the bench, Mike would then slide over to the 3 when Danny's not out there.

ya or move danny to SG. but Danny doesnt have good enoght handles to play the 2 which is sad.

cordobes
11-15-2010, 03:18 PM
And trading Teague leaves Atlanta with a starting pg in his thirteenth season and no backups.

Yeps. Horford and Smith are quality starters, Pachulia is decent as a backup big and Powell is decent as a 4th big. They aren't good on those roles but they're respectable.

On the other hand, Bibby is already a below average starting PG and they have no other PG. Even Jamaal Crawford who can masquerade as one (badly) is on his way out. If Teague shows some progress, he has a good chance of becoming the starter. It's up to him.

Thompson would add (needed) quality to their big man rotation but the downgrade on the backcourt would be too large.

cordobes
11-15-2010, 03:29 PM
Thompson is a better player than Darnell Jackson. He's out of the rotation due to his very poor defense and because there are more reliable veterans in front of him - Paul Westphal belongs to the Jim O'Brien school of thought, it seems.

Right now, Thompson is a backup. If he can become a quality starter is up for debate. Difficult to say anything from his performance this season - he has played too little and some of the time as a SF. It will always take some time because right now he struggles immensely with his defensive positioning. He's at least one year away from becoming... a mediocre defender. I do believe he has the potential to become an above average defender in due time, even a very good one, but it's always a gamble. I like what he already offers offensively - very versatile, can be effective from anywhere on the court. I like his ability to switch between the 4 and the 5 too. Of course you cant' offer unprotected firsts for projects like Thompson unless you're a +50 wins club able to keep a winning record even during an injury-riddled season, that's insane, but if I trusted Thompson's willingness to improve his defensive ability, I'd consider throwing some value for him.

Trophy
11-15-2010, 03:50 PM
I really don't know why the Kings rather have Darnell Jackson playing instead of Thompson.

Are they really against Thompson or something?

cdash
11-15-2010, 04:00 PM
So Sacramento must think really high on Thompson if they want Teague in return for him don't you think?

:laugh:

...no. That means they were just trying to rip off another team via trade.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 04:20 PM
Thompson is a better player than Darnell Jackson. He's out of the rotation due to his very poor defense and because there are more reliable veterans in front of him - Paul Westphal belongs to the Jim O'Brien school of thought, it seems.

Right now, Thompson is a backup. If he can become a quality starter is up for debate. Difficult to say anything from his performance this season - he has played too little and some of the time as a SF. It will always take some time because right now he struggles immensely with his defensive positioning. He's at least one year away from becoming... a mediocre defender. I do believe he has the potential to become an above average defender in due time, even a very good one, but it's always a gamble. I like what he already offers offensively - very versatile, can be effective from anywhere on the court. I like his ability to switch between the 4 and the 5 too. Of course you cant' offer unprotected firsts for projects like Thompson unless you're a +50 wins club able to keep a winning record even during an injury-riddled season, that's insane, but if I trusted Thompson's willingness to improve his defensive ability, I'd consider throwing some value for him.

I heard most players hate playing for westpal. DeMacus really doesnt like him.

cordobes
11-15-2010, 04:22 PM
I really don't know why the Kings rather have Darnell Jackson playing instead of Thompson.

Are they really against Thompson or something?

Same reason Cousins was demoted to the bench.

Poor decision-making, especially on the defensive end for Thompson.

cordobes
11-15-2010, 04:55 PM
I heard most players hate playing for westpal.

Who told you that? Where did you hear that?

Westphal has the reputation of being a players' coach. Cousins is learning that he'll need to earn those minutes, needs to show he's up to the job. It's good for him, even if he hates it.

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 05:01 PM
Who told you that? Where did you hear that?

Westphal has the reputation of being a players' coach. Cousins is learning that he'll need to earn those minutes, needs to show he's up to the job. It's good for him, even if he hates it.

It was a Kings broadcast on espn. They said that Cousin and westpaul are already bicking and then they said most players dont like how westpaul is.

imawhat
11-15-2010, 05:23 PM
I think it's more than that. That he's behind a considerably lesser player throws up red flags. Thompson has really bad body language and it looks like he runs his teammates the wrong way.

I think a Ford/Thompson trade is a great idea.

cordobes
11-15-2010, 05:23 PM
It was a Kings broadcast on espn. They said that Cousin and westpaul are already bicking and then they said most players dont like how westpaul is.

DeMarcus Cousins was fined in the pre-season because he run his mouth on a couple of assistant coaches.

He denied it's an ongoing problem (obviously) and Kings beatwriters seem to agree:
http://hardcourtmayhem.com/kings/?p=1865

I also read a report, from Sam Amick I think, that some Kings players weren't happy because they feel that Tyreke Evans has a special treatment from the coaching staff and Westphal. They don't hold him accountable as they do with the other young players. I'm looking for that article but I cant' find it. I'm not sure I buy it. Westphal had that fall-out with Payton in Seattle precisely because he wont' allow the ego of a diva to overtake his coaching decisions.

This stuff happens with young teams. The Kings could use a little more veteran leadership in that roster, but it is what it is. There are bigger reasons why they're a lousy franchise developing young players.

croz24
11-15-2010, 06:02 PM
LOL at pacers fans who actually think aj price is better than darren collison. wow.

cordobes
11-15-2010, 06:02 PM
I was looking for Amick's article at the SacBee, that's why I wasn't able to find it! He moved over to AOLFanHouse some months ago, that's where I read that article:

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/11/12/kings-deny-growing-issues-with-demarcus-cousins-tyreke-evans/

-----------

If I were the Kings, I'd be looking to trade Landry, not Thompson.

He's a bad fit in that roster, he's a bad fit next to Evans and Cousins. They need someone more versatile and with more range at the 4. And he's a bad contract waiting to happen because someone will seem him as a starter and overpay for him this Summer.

Thompson... I trade him for a good offer, but I'm willing to give him more time. Give him the opportunity to show he can improve his defense.

cdash
11-15-2010, 06:16 PM
And he's a bad contract waiting to happen because someone will seem him as a starter and overpay for him this Summer.

There are so many reasons to think that team is going to be us. Hole at PF, went to college locally, we have the cap space, lack of better options, etc. I really hope we aren't that team.

Sookie
11-15-2010, 06:54 PM
LOL at pacers fans who actually think aj price is better than darren collison. wow.

Prove to me that he isn't.

Collison has had (several now) opportunities that Price hasn't. That's the difference between the two. It could have ended up the other way around. That the Pacers drafted Collison and he sat behind Earl and TJ (although he probably wouldn't have looked as good seeing as this offense doesn't fit him) and the Hornets grabbed AJ..who then gets an opportunity to play in a point-centered system for months on end.

Last season, when both played between 20-30 minutes (about twenty games ) They averaged about the same statistics. And Price plays better defense. In fact, Price's were slightly better. Final two seasons in college, Price's stats were slightly better. This season, Price outplayed Collison in less minutes during preseason..and Price was recovering from knee surgery.

Yes, Collison is more athletic, and he's faster..that makes him a better athlete than AJ Price, not a better basketball player or point guard.

There's a reason guys like Dan Dakich and Slick are fans of Price.

I think, actually, that in terms of being "good" they are about the same, just different players offensively. Defensively, Price is better right now, and it's not close. But potentially, I think Collison can be a fantastic defender and Price a good one, just because defense is where athleticism is really needed, much more so than offense, imo.

I hope for the Pacers sake though, that Collison is in fact better. But Collison hasn't proved that yet.

cdash
11-15-2010, 07:05 PM
Prove to me that he isn't.

Collison has had (several now) opportunities that Price hasn't. That's the difference between the two. It could have ended up the other way around. That the Pacers drafted Collison and he sat behind Earl and TJ (although he probably wouldn't have looked as good seeing as this offense doesn't fit him) and the Hornets grabbed AJ..who then gets an opportunity to play in a point-centered system for months on end.

Last season, when both played between 20-30 minutes (about twenty games ) They averaged about the same statistics. And Price plays better defense. In fact, Price's were slightly better. Final two seasons in college, Price's stats were slightly better.

Yes, Collison is more athletic, and he's faster..that makes him a better athlete than AJ Price, not a better basketball player or point guard.

There's a reason guys like Dan Dakich and Slick are fans of Price.

I think, actually, that in terms of being "good" they are about the same, just different players offensively. Defensively, Price is better right now, and it's not close. But potentially, I think Collison can be a fantastic defender and Price a good one, just because defense is where athleticism is really needed, much more so than offense, imo.

I hope for the Pacers sake though, that Collison is in fact better. But Collison hasn't proved that yet.

:fatbanana

Yeah...I think you are a wee bit partial to AJ. Collison proved last year in his time in New Orleans that he is better than Price.

I think the Price legend is a lot like the McRoberts legend around here. Looked good in the limited time he got, so people think he should get more minutes. However that we may find in more minutes, he just isn't starter material. He's decent in the system because he makes shots and doesn't do anything stupid with the ball. Solid backup. However, until he gets those minutes, people are going to continue to romanticize him and make him out to be better than he really is.

Just my :twocents:

Trophy
11-15-2010, 07:12 PM
Darren is much better than AJ, but I would love to see a rotation of those 2 guys.

Darren has more of the skills and abilities a PG should have. He's able to pass the ball well and guide the offense (if the offense slows down).

AJ is a great 3 point shooter and can space the floor, but he doesn't really have a lot of the abilities good starting PGs should have and that to guide the offense and pass the ball.

But back to Jason Thompson...I was surprised to see ATL have such an interest in him and would be willing to give up one of their only PGs.

Sookie
11-15-2010, 07:13 PM
:fatbanana

Yeah...I think you are a wee bit partial to AJ. Collison proved last year in his time in New Orleans that he is better than Price.

I think the Price legend is a lot like the McRoberts legend around here. Looked good in the limited time he got, so people think he should get more minutes. However that we may find in more minutes, he just isn't starter material. He's decent in the system because he makes shots and doesn't do anything stupid with the ball. Solid backup. However, until he gets those minutes, people are going to continue to romanticize him and make him out to be better than he really is.

Just my :twocents:

And here's my issue with what you said.

Collison played in a PG centered system last season, that's not debatable. Has his assists come close to what they were this season? No. Because of the system. He was playing 40 minutes a night, for a few months, because Chris Paul got hurt and he was the backup. Not because the Hornets suddenly decided to go with Collison.

Everything I've said is true. Price's stats his final two seasons at Uconn were slightly better than Collison's, if you use the 20-30 minute range (which is fair, because AJ's never gotten to play more than 30, which makes a difference..) then Price's stats are once again, slightly better. (He has more points, less turnovers, Collison has less points more assists better shooting percentage. Everything else was about identical)

So until AJ gets those opportunities, when compaing the small amount of opportunities AJ's gotten to what Collison did in similar circumstances, AJ has been just as good.

So as I said, until Price gets that opportunity, there's no reason to think Collison is better. What Collison has done, is proven..becaue of the opportunities given to him..that he deserves a shot as a starting PG. Collison performed admirably, when many other rookies would have fallen on their face. But just because AJ has never had those opportunities (he should have had it at the end of last season..) doesn't mean that AJ can't do it. He just hasn't been able to show it.

And as for the "true PG" ..just remember before AJ was instructed to act like a mini shooting guard and Collison played in a PnR system and learned under Chris Paul..it was Price that was the "true PG" and Collison who was an SG in a PGs body.

yes, I'm biased on the side of Price..but I have a lot of stats and logic backing me up..and the fact that I've seen him play a LOT more than most people here. (and I haven't been wrong about him so far. :P ) I think that there's a romanticism of Collison, based on statistics HE put up in a system that completely revolved around him. And besides, I'll I'm saying is that I think they'll end up similar level of players, and Price is better for this system. I'm not even suggesting to start Price..I'm suggesting to give them both the opportunity to prove which is better. I don't feel this is like the Tyler/Josh thing. If I'm wrong, and Collison ends up an All star, then that's good for the Pacers. If I'm right, and both Price and Collison end up as quality starters..then that's good for the Pacers.

BRushWithDeath
11-15-2010, 07:23 PM
But back to Jason Thompson...I was surprised to see ATL have such an interest in him and would be willing to give up one of their only PGs.

They weren't.

Sookie
11-15-2010, 07:27 PM
They weren't.

Yea, I think Sac just tried to rip them off. But we have a backup PG if they'd like one..

Mackey_Rose
11-15-2010, 07:32 PM
But back to Jason Thompson...I was surprised to see ATL have such an interest in him and would be willing to give up one of their only PGs.

They didn't or else it would have happened.

cdash
11-15-2010, 07:37 PM
And here's my issue with what you said.

Collison played in a PG centered system last season, that's not debatable. Has his assists come close to what they were this season? No. Because of the system. He was playing 40 minutes a night, for a few months, because Chris Paul got hurt and he was the backup. Not because the Hornets suddenly decided to go with Collison.

Everything I've said is true. Price's stats his final two seasons at Uconn were slightly better than Collison's, if you use the 20-30 minute range (which is fair, because AJ's never gotten to play more than 30, which makes a difference..) then Price's stats are once again, slightly better. (He has more points, less turnovers, Collison has less points more assists better shooting percentage. Everything else was about identical)

So until AJ gets those opportunities, when compaing the small amount of opportunities AJ's gotten to what Collison did in similar circumstances, AJ has been just as good.

So as I said, until Price gets that opportunity, there's no reason to think Collison is better. What Collison has done, is proven..becaue of the opportunities given to him..that he deserves a shot as a starting PG. Collison performed admirably, when many other rookies would have fallen on their face. But just because AJ has never had those opportunities (he should have had it at the end of last season..) doesn't mean that AJ can't do it. He just hasn't been able to show it.

And as for the "true PG" ..just remember before AJ was instructed to act like a mini shooting guard and Collison played in a PnR system and learned under Chris Paul..it was Price that was the "true PG" and Collison who was an SG in a PGs body.

yes, I'm biased on the side of Price..but I have a lot of stats and logic backing me up..and the fact that I've seen him play a LOT more than most people here. (and I haven't been wrong about him so far. :P ) I think that there's a romanticism of Collison, based on statistics HE put up in a system that completely revolved around him. And besides, I'll I'm saying is that I think they'll end up similar level of players, and Price is better for this system. I'm not even suggesting to start Price..I'm suggesting to give them both the opportunity to prove which is better. I don't feel this is like the Tyler/Josh thing. If I'm wrong, and Collison ends up an All star, then that's good for the Pacers. If I'm right, and both Price and Collison end up as quality starters..then that's good for the Pacers.

No, everything you've said is your opinion. As is everything I've said.

Obviously, we are on separate sides of this and it is not going to change. I think it's pretty apparent that Collison the superior player based on what he has done in his pro career. There is a reason he's starting and Price isn't dressing, and it isn't because Bird and O'Brien are romanticizing him. Just my opinion.

Sookie
11-15-2010, 07:47 PM
No, everything you've said is your opinion. As is everything I've said.

Obviously, we are on separate sides of this and it is not going to change. I think it's pretty apparent that Collison the superior player based on what he has done in his pro career. There is a reason he's starting and Price isn't dressing, and it isn't because Bird and O'Brien are romanticizing him. Just my opinion.

I was talking about the statistics and the fact that Collison played in an offense geared around him, and the defense..those aren't opinions (well, we can say the defense is an opinion..but really...)

And I hope for the Pacers sake you're right.

cdash
11-15-2010, 08:00 PM
I was talking about the statistics and the fact that Collison played in an offense geared around him, and the defense..those aren't opinions (well, we can say the defense is an opinion..but really...)

And I hope for the Pacers sake you're right.

Even with the statistics I don't see where you can say AJ is better. Hell that one game against us last year that Collison had was more impressive than anything I've ever seen out of AJ. I hope for the Pacers' sake we are both onto something. A backup of that quality would be great to have as either a backup or as trade bait.

Justin Tyme
11-15-2010, 08:16 PM
But we have a backup PG if they'd like one..


Who Price? ;)

Gamble1
11-15-2010, 08:44 PM
So until AJ gets those opportunities, when compaing the small amount of opportunities AJ's gotten to what Collison did in similar circumstances, AJ has been just as good.
You can say that about anyone that hasn't gottin a lot of NBA minutes. The proof is in the pudding. Collison has ran a NBA system and did it well. Price hasn't for a number of reasons.

You do realize that Collison has had a 20 assist a game his first year. When you compare that to career highs in assist to great NBA pg's like Steve Nash at 22 and Deron Williams at 21 or even his mentor at 21 I think its a hard sell to somehow say Price is as good as Collison.

Edit: Collisons first game as a Pacer tied Prices career high in assist.

Sookie
11-15-2010, 09:02 PM
You can say that about anyone that hasn't gottin a lot of NBA minutes. The proof is in the pudding. Collison has ran a NBA system and did it well. Price hasn't for a number of reasons.

You do realize that Collison has had a 20 assist game his first year. When you compare that to career highs in assist to great NBA pg's like Steve Nash at 22 and Deron Williams at 21 or even his mentor at 21 I think its a hard sell to somehow say Price is as good as Collison.

Edit: Collisons first game as a Pacer tied Prices career high in assist.

Collison ran an NBA team because Chris Paul got hurt. No one would have ever known he was capable of playing up to that level. (and before it happened, most didn't think he could) That's a lucky situation. Price didn't get that.

And I said, Collison performed well. But he was in a system that was built for him to have an extrordinary amount of assists. That doesn't mean all guys could have done that, but it means it helps. We've seen that happen before. The fact that Collison played well means, to me, he's proved he should get a shot at starting, but to suggest that he got to run an NBA team for any other reason that the superstar ahead of him got hurt, is inaccurate.

And, Price's career high in assists came in 15 minutes of game time..and once again, we're comparing two different systems. I'm not going to ever pick on Darren's assists while he's running this offense, because this offense isn't made for him to get assists.

I'm gonna let this go here. Because truth is, I like Darren a lot, and I don't want to appear to be "bashing him" (although I don't think I have been) Yes, I prefer Price's game to his, but I like a lot of things about Darren. And I just think, with two young PGs, we oughta be giving them both the opportunity to compete for minutes. And I think, on a young team there will be times when Collison's energy is needed, and times when Price's calm demeanor is what the team needs. I'd just like Ford out of the picture. :laugh:

Hibbert
11-15-2010, 09:30 PM
Prove to me that he isn't.

Collison has had (several now) opportunities that Price hasn't. That's the difference between the two. It could have ended up the other way around. That the Pacers drafted Collison and he sat behind Earl and TJ (although he probably wouldn't have looked as good seeing as this offense doesn't fit him) and the Hornets grabbed AJ..who then gets an opportunity to play in a point-centered system for months on end.

Last season, when both played between 20-30 minutes (about twenty games ) They averaged about the same statistics. And Price plays better defense. In fact, Price's were slightly better. Final two seasons in college, Price's stats were slightly better. This season, Price outplayed Collison in less minutes during preseason..and Price was recovering from knee surgery.

Yes, Collison is more athletic, and he's faster..that makes him a better athlete than AJ Price, not a better basketball player or point guard.

There's a reason guys like Dan Dakich and Slick are fans of Price.

I think, actually, that in terms of being "good" they are about the same, just different players offensively. Defensively, Price is better right now, and it's not close. But potentially, I think Collison can be a fantastic defender and Price a good one, just because defense is where athleticism is really needed, much more so than offense, imo.

I hope for the Pacers sake though, that Collison is in fact better. But Collison hasn't proved that yet.

Dan Dakich? lol can't believe you threw that out there, what credibility does he have whatsoever? So its just a conspriacy that AJ is sitting every game third string without getting a single minute this year huh? Unbelievable post

beast23
11-15-2010, 09:31 PM
Collison ran an NBA team because Chris Paul got hurt. No one would have ever known he was capable of playing up to that level. (and before it happened, most didn't think he could) That's a lucky situation. Price didn't get that...
Are you kidding me? Does it really matter whiy Collison got his opportunity? The fact is that he did and he made the most of it.

The same thing was true for the Pacer PGs last season. One would get injured, the next man up (I've come to appreciate that term) steps up and makes enough of the opportunity that when the injured player returns, he does not get his starting spot back. This must have happened 4 or 5 times last season alone for the Pacers. And if someone else is starting, you continue to work your arse off, waiting patiently for your next opportunity.

At this time, the starting position belongs to Collison. He has earned it and for the most part is playing well. That makes it his position to lose. It has nothing to do with his minutes, TJ's minutes or Price's minutes. It remains Collison's to lose until he either slips out of favor, or one of his two PG teammates consistently outplays him when they are given opportunities.

That's the way it is, always has been, and probably always will be.

You stick with what you have for consistency's sake if nothing else, as long as it is performing well.

Hibbert
11-15-2010, 09:32 PM
And, Price's career high in assists came in 15 minutes of game time..


Wrong again, it came in 22 minutes.

Scot Pollard
11-15-2010, 10:27 PM
how is thompsons defense

is it better than carl landrys

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 11:04 PM
how is thompsons defense

is it better than carl landrys

His defense is the reson he doesnt play much .

MillerTime
11-15-2010, 11:20 PM
If Kings could not get Teague for Thompson, Im sure we could get Thompson for Rush. I would do it in a heartbeat.

Considering all the talent we have in our swingmen, I could love to move Rush for a future PF. After moving rush, we'll still have Dunleavy, Granger, Stephenson, Jones and George.

Collson/Price
George/Stephenson
Granger/Dunleavy
Thompson/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Solo

pacer4ever
11-15-2010, 11:23 PM
If Kings could not get Teague for Thompson, Im sure we could get Thompson for Rush. I would do it in a heartbeat.

Considering all the talent we have in our swingmen, I could love to move Rush for a future PF. After moving rush, we'll still have Dunleavy, Granger, Stephenson, Jones and George.

Collson/Price
George/Stephenson
Granger/Dunleavy
Thompson/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Thompson

fixed* if we get jason solo better be in a suit every game

MillerTime
11-16-2010, 01:00 AM
fixed* if we get jason solo better be in a suit every game

Hes going to need a rest once in a while

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 01:02 AM
Hes going to need a rest once in a while

have hansbro start i dont want solo playing a min

MillerTime
11-16-2010, 01:18 AM
have hansbro start i dont want solo playing a min

And Thompson come off the bench? Thats a waste of talent

Sookie
11-16-2010, 02:19 AM
Does Josh not get to play?

croz24
11-16-2010, 02:22 AM
a guy i'd much rather have than thompson and who pacersdigest wasn't too keen on a year or so ago is tyrus thomas. he's basically a josh smith-lite who can hit free throws. bring him in, have him gain about 15lbs, and tell him to primarily focus on the defensive end of the court and you have yourselves the perfect lockdown power forward to compliment roy hibbert. jmo.

NapTonius Monk
11-16-2010, 02:43 AM
a guy i'd much rather have than thompson and who pacersdigest wasn't too keen on a year or so ago is tyrus thomas. he's basically a josh smith-lite who can hit free throws. bring him in, have him gain about 15lbs, and tell him to primarily focus on the defensive end of the court and you have yourselves the perfect lockdown power forward to compliment roy hibbert. jmo.
There's something about ol' Tyrus that just makes you wonder.

Heisenberg
11-16-2010, 02:46 AM
There's something about ol' Tyrus that just makes you wonder.
Yeah, like a 5/$40mm extension he signed this past offseason. I like Thomas, but not at that price.

d_c
11-16-2010, 03:11 AM
His defense is the reson he doesnt play much .

There's plenty of guys who are poor defenders. What has benched Thompson are his turnovers and fouling rate. All in all, he just hasn't been very good.

Justin Tyme
11-16-2010, 01:03 PM
It's pretty obvious I want Thompson, especially when he seems available, BUT if I could get a young cheap PF I'd really like Ibaka of the Thunder. He caught my eye last year, and I've kept tabs on him ever since. He's presently starting with Green out, and doing well. He CAN play "D" and is tough in the paint. I'm not saying DD but of that type. OKC hasd Green's replacement in case they can't re-sign him, and a player more typically what a PF should be.

I'd love to see what our Euro expert posters think about him!

imawhat
11-16-2010, 01:24 PM
Ibaka is someone we can agree on.

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 01:27 PM
Ibaka is someone we can agree on.

OKC loves him serge is a beast

Eleazar
11-16-2010, 02:50 PM
If Kings could not get Teague for Thompson, Im sure we could get Thompson for Rush. I would do it in a heartbeat.

Considering all the talent we have in our swingmen, I could love to move Rush for a future PF. After moving rush, we'll still have Dunleavy, Granger, Stephenson, Jones and George.

Collson/Price
George/Stephenson
Granger/Dunleavy
Thompson/Hansbrough
Hibbert/Solo

Yes, Dunleavy who won't be here next year, Jones who isn't better in any way than Rush, and Stephenson who most likely won'y be in the league in 3 years.

I would rather trade dunleavy or Ford for him.

cdash
11-16-2010, 04:15 PM
It's pretty obvious I want Thompson, especially when he seems available, BUT if I could get a young cheap PF I'd really like Ibaka of the Thunder. He caught my eye last year, and I've kept tabs on him ever since. He's presently starting with Green out, and doing well. He CAN play "D" and is tough in the paint. I'm not saying DD but of that type. OKC hasd Green's replacement in case they can't re-sign him, and a player more typically what a PF should be.

I'd love to see what our Euro expert posters think about him!

Yeah we can keep dreaming there, he isn't going anywhere. I do really like the guy though.

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 04:58 PM
Yeah we can keep dreaming there, he isn't going anywhere. I do really like the guy though.

ya serge Ibaka is near untouchable they love him. He will most likely be there starting 4 or 5 probly 4 next yr. They might trade green in the summer in a S&T but i doubt it they love Green as well.

Justin Tyme
11-16-2010, 05:36 PM
So many times someone will say "that player was a low draft pick no big deal." I'll take that #24 pick ANY DAY!! Ibaka would be the PF of the future for the Pacers, and the type PF I like/want. BUT OKC isn't going to trade him.
Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka is a nice young core!

ballism
11-16-2010, 05:41 PM
how is thompsons defense

is it better than carl landrys

Tbh, I'd say yes, but that doesn't say much. Landry is a below average defender. Thompson is average at most, nothing more. Thompson's only real edge over Landry has been rebounding.

Landry is getting time mainly because his offense has been way superior to Thompson's. And they don't really need rebounds oriented PF, especially now that they are starting Dalembert. Cousins takes care of rebounds well too.

Besides, Landry doesnt break plays as much as Thompson does - which has ended up with Westphaul benching Thompson a number of times. I don't know what's wrong there, but if he does it here, I'd imagine it would drive JOB a bit crazy to have two young PFs who can't execute a system. Still, much better than Solo! If you can get him cheap - for one of the bench guards we have - get him.

ballism
11-16-2010, 05:49 PM
So many times someone will say "that player was a low draft pick no big deal." I'll take that #24 pick ANY DAY!! Ibaka would be the PF of the future for the Pacers, and the type PF I like/want. BUT OKC isn't going to trade him.
Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka is a nice young core!

He would probably be the PF of the future on any team except Clippers, Minny and maybe Nets. The kid is an animal.

pacer4ever
11-16-2010, 06:01 PM
He would probably be the PF of the future on any team except Clippers, Minny and maybe Nets. The kid is an animal.

ya him and blake griffen are just really fun to watch

oxxo
11-16-2010, 06:12 PM
a guy i'd much rather have than thompson and who pacersdigest wasn't too keen on a year or so ago is tyrus thomas. he's basically a josh smith-lite who can hit free throws. bring him in, have him gain about 15lbs, and tell him to primarily focus on the defensive end of the court and you have yourselves the perfect lockdown power forward to compliment roy hibbert. jmo.

Thomas would be amazing one the team. Watching him play this year has been totally different than when he was with the Bulls. HE would be worth trading for.

Justin Tyme
11-16-2010, 07:07 PM
Somebody or something has definately lit a fire under Beasley now that he's with Minnie.

NapTonius Monk
11-18-2010, 12:18 AM
Thompson started tonight. I wonder if they're starting to showcase him. Although, I wonder if playing him at the 3 does anything good for him, or the Kings.

pacer4ever
11-18-2010, 12:58 AM
Somebody or something has definately lit a fire under Beasley now that he's with Minnie.

he is playing the 3 which lets him play more of his game. Very fun to watch

pacer4ever
11-18-2010, 01:00 AM
Thompson started tonight. I wonder if they're starting to showcase him. Although, I wonder if playing him at the 3 does anything good for him, or the Kings.

Jason 2pts 2reb 3 fls start of the 4th. Kings playing very poor.

former pacer Luther Head playing well 13 pts landry has 17

cdash
11-18-2010, 04:13 AM
he is playing the 3 which lets him play more of his game. Very fun to watch

You do realize that he played the 3 most of his rookie season and quite a bit last season too, right? I don't think it's the position so much as it is his head. He seems to be more focused and he's going to get every opportunity to succeed in Minnesota. Good for him, glad he has been able to turn things around. Dude has always had the talent, just not the work ethic or the drive.

ballism
11-18-2010, 08:08 AM
If they wanted JT to start, they should have just kept Kevin Martin and started JT at his proper position. Sigh.

As for results, JT is who he is. Very inconsistent.