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View Full Version : Deadline trade, or no?



Hicks
11-11-2010, 04:24 PM
Just wondered how the numbers would bear out after the vote.

OakMoses
11-11-2010, 05:33 PM
I answered none, but I'm really totally in the middle. I think it's certainly something Bird is open to doing, but he's not going to make a trade just to make a trade. If the team is competitive and he can get a guy he wants long-term, he'll do it.

PacerPenguins
11-11-2010, 05:34 PM
tj might and hopefully we could somehow get rid of solo and dahntay(?)

naptownmenace
11-11-2010, 05:40 PM
The Pacers have a nice core of young players and unless they can get a bonafide All-Star player like 'Melo, while not having to give up any of their promising young players, I don't see them making a trade.

I think TPTB are more interested in clearing away as much cap space as possible and seeing what they can do in Free Agency. I can completely understand that too. I just don't want to end up like Detroit, New Jersey, or the Clippers - having all that cap space and getting nothing but marginal role players like Villanueva, Jordan Farmar, and Rasual Butler.

CableKC
11-11-2010, 05:54 PM
Given the ho-hum FA market next offseason....my guess is that Bird will do his best to try to parlay any of the Expiring Contracts into upgrading our Starting quality SG or PF spots with a long-term contract just to get us over the hump and into the Playoffs.

BringJackBack
11-11-2010, 06:02 PM
I think TPTB are more interested in clearing away as much cap space as possible and seeing what they can do in Free Agency. I can completely understand that too. I just don't want to end up like Detroit, New Jersey, or the Clippers - having all that cap space and getting nothing but marginal role players like Villanueva, Jordan Farmar, and Rasual Butler.

This is what I am afraid of.

At the deadline I believe- with no insight or proof or facts to back me up, pure speculation by looking at rotations and contracts- that the following above average starters may be up for grabs: Kevin Love, Josh Smith, Baron Davis (even though we aren't interested), Andy Varejao, Corey Maggete, Jason Richardson (he's having a good year), Rip Hamilton, and maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe Chris Bosh (almost 100% certain that they will give him plenty of time to adjust and develop).

Of that list I very much like Kevin Love, Josh Smith (albeit he is overpaid), and Sideshow Bob (maybe a little overpaid depending on your point of view about him). I think that Rip Hamilton would help us tremendously- not to the extent of beforementioned players- but he would be solid.

I worry about Kevin Love though. Kevin is a very, very nice player and all, but I am not sold on him because he just doesn't seem to be a workhorse and seems to just be a statstuffer and most of his big performances are pretty forgettable. He gets a lot of rebounds which is great, but he is not a shotblocker and he doesn't play great defense by any means. I do, however, think that I am underrating Kevin Love as he does have a ridiculous 21.9 rp40 with a very high basketball IQ with very good passing and shooting.

Imagine Chris Denari saying, "The shot is swatted away by Roy Hibbert into the hands of Kevin Love, and Love makes a beautiful outlet pass to UCLA teammate Darren Collison and Collison oops it to Paul George for the slam!"

I think that I have a reputation for being some kind of Rip Hamilton lover when I mention him. I am not. I simply think that he would fit much better than Mike and an inconsistent Rush (I hope that he is turning this around and the Denver game is a pleaseant sign of things to come). He is around a 20 points per game scorer and he has been in the Playoffs throughout his career. He's been there, done that and unlike James Posey, not only is he more talented, but he still has game left in the tank.

Rip would get us over the hump of mediocrity and get us closer to a 45-50 win team with $20+ million in capspace to pursue some very good players. He is very expendable as it seems that he has fallen out of favor in Detroit to Ben Gordon and Austin Daye, and his bloated contract makes him very easy for us to acquire. If this move is some huge fail and Rip is no better than Mike then he is an expiring contract next year and no harm done.

Why do you guys not think that we will get a deal done? Is it because we haven't done so in the past?

crunk-juice
11-11-2010, 06:05 PM
have we learned nothing?

no one wants them.

BringJackBack
11-11-2010, 06:13 PM
have we learned nothing?

no one wants them.

Teams want Mike, TJ, Jeff, and Solo the same reasons that teams wanted Erick Dampier, Tracy McGrady, and Troy Murphy. It's all about the Benjamins.

Sookie
11-11-2010, 06:28 PM
Rip would get us over the hump of mediocrity and get us closer to a 45-50 win team with $20+ million in capspace to pursue some very good players. He is very expendable as it seems that he has fallen out of favor in Detroit to Ben Gordon and Austin Daye, and his bloated contract makes him very easy for us to acquire. If this move is some huge fail and Rip is no better than Mike then he is an expiring contract next year and no harm done.

Why do you guys not think that we will get a deal done? Is it because we haven't done so in the past?

I mentioned before, I'd do a Rip for TJ + Dahntay deal.

My thoughts being that Rip is a good starter, and Rush and George can learn from him and be the backups (I'd like a four man rotation) But Rip's also getting old, so really..3 years would give George ample time to develope, and we'd certainly see where Rush is. Rip's getting old too, so although he'd start, there'd be plenty of minutes to go around.

The problem is, we'd still have a log jam there, and still have Dun. Unless we could somehow swing a trade for a PF with Dun and a few expirings.

HC
11-11-2010, 06:35 PM
I think one of them will go, but I must say that I'm not half as disgusted with TJ thus far this season in comparison to the last 1.5 seasons.

CableKC
11-11-2010, 06:42 PM
I mentioned before, I'd do a Rip for TJ + Dahntay deal.

My thoughts being that Rip is a good starter, and Rush and George can learn from him and be the backups (I'd like a four man rotation) But Rip's also getting old, so really..3 years would give George ample time to develope, and we'd certainly see where Rush is. Rip's getting old too, so although he'd start, there'd be plenty of minutes to go around.

The problem is, we'd still have a log jam there, and still have Dun. Unless we could somehow swing a trade for a PF with Dun and a few expirings.
Given the amount of $$ that Rip is owed over the next 3 years....I'd much rather do a Posey+Foster for Rip+Terrico White.

BringJackBack
11-11-2010, 06:42 PM
I forgot to mention Anthony Randolph. He has had a pitiful season thus far and he has fallen in the doghouse. He has been HORRIBLE for Mike DAntoni. We all know that he has talent and high potential with a rookie contract to make a potential deal "low risk-high reward" type of deal. In the past Anthony Randolph has shown good scoring, shotblocking, and rebounding at 21 years of age?

Here are his stats and such so you guys can see just how much of a disappointment he has been.:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randoan01.html

Again, the talent is there, but he needs to put it all together. He is sure as hell better than Solo, so if we can pick him up w/o giving up much I would be very happy in bringing him here. I understand that he is likely not to be a star and he isn't a good defender, but he is one of these guys that can come in next season or the season after and become a very nice player such as someone like Kevin Martin has done.

If we give up any real assets I say pass, but if not, what do you guys think?

CableKC
11-11-2010, 06:55 PM
I forgot to mention Anthony Randolph. He has had a pitiful season thus far and he has fallen in the doghouse. He has been HORRIBLE for Mike DAntoni. We all know that he has talent and high potential with a rookie contract to make a potential deal "low risk-high reward" type of deal. In the past Anthony Randolph has shown good scoring, shotblocking, and rebounding at 21 years of age?

Here are his stats and such so you guys can see just how much of a disappointment he has been.:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randoan01.html

Again, the talent is there, but he needs to put it all together. He is sure as hell better than Solo, so if we can pick him up w/o giving up much I would be very happy in bringing him here. I understand that he is likely not to be a star and he isn't a good defender, but he is one of these guys that can come in next season or the season after and become a very nice player such as someone like Kevin Martin has done.

If we give up any real assets I say pass, but if not, what do you guys think?
Given that he can't get any real/significant minutes in a system like D'Antoni....I'm beginning to sour on him cuz something has to be wrong with him. He has a lot of raw talent...but not a lot of basketball IQ as I understand it.

If we could get him while giving up no real assets, sure...it's a no-brainer. But my guess is that DW is going to ask for a lot for him.

BringJackBack
11-11-2010, 07:01 PM
I have a feeling that he's just "not getting it". I don't think it's so much a bad basketball IQ as much as it is he is just immature in thinking that he's a lot better than he really is. It's obvious that he has the tools, rebounding, athleticism etc. to be a nice piece to our young and talented team.

The big question is, will he get it? I have a feeling that if he got to work with Roy, Paul, Darren, Josh and AJ in the offseason than I think he'll have the positive influences to reach his potential and not fall for having a low self esteem or lack of confidence.

CooperManning
11-11-2010, 07:04 PM
This is what I am afraid of.

At the deadline I believe- with no insight or proof or facts to back me up, pure speculation by looking at rotations and contracts- that the following above average starters may be up for grabs: Kevin Love, Josh Smith, Baron Davis (even though we aren't interested), Andy Varejao, Corey Maggete, Jason Richardson (he's having a good year), Rip Hamilton, and maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe Chris Bosh (almost 100% certain that they will give him plenty of time to adjust and develop).

You can remove that "almost" in front of 100%. Pretty much any player not named Kobe or Durant is more likely to be traded than a member of Miami's Big 3.

BringJackBack
11-11-2010, 07:10 PM
Have you not seen how bad he's been being the 3rd option? I thought that he would excel and put up monster numbers w/ Wade and Lebron, but it's been the opposite.

ballism
11-11-2010, 07:40 PM
There will be a few players available, but there's also quite a few teams with expirings. Some of them might even feel a bit desperate and add young players (cough Knicks) or picks (OKC). I dont see us likely to make a big deal, but maybe a small deal with TJ for a low pick?

As for those players, Bosh is there for 4 years no matter what. Their main guys all went there to be together and took pay cuts. You cant trade one of them and expect the others to feel ok with it.

I like Love, even if i'm not sure if he's a good fit with Hibbert - both slow-ish, below average defensively. Love is a beast though, if u can get him, u get him and worry about gaps later. He's a hard worker, high IQ, and may end up being better than anyone we have on Pacers right now. My feeling is that we can't get him though, unless we trade Granger :p Khan may be a bad GM, but come on.

I don't like Anthony Randolph, looks completely clueless. If we can get him for TJ, why not. But wouldn't give any pick for him. There's been a number of reports that he's very immature and a bad worker in practices, so he doesn't really belong in same sentense with Kevin Martin. Honestly, i would even worry a bit about bringing him to a team with developing young players - like Pacers. U'd rather want serious hard working people around your good young guys.

I don't know why Suns would be trading Q-Rich (unless they trade Nash too and rebuild). As for Rip, i agree, he would be nice instead of Dun. He may have a market though this winter, doubt we can get him for expirings. Detroit will probably want a pick too.

BringJackBack
11-11-2010, 07:44 PM
There will be a few players available, but there's also quite a few teams with expirings. Some of them might even feel a bit desperate and add young players (cough Knicks) or picks (OKC). I dont see us likely to make a big deal, but maybe a small deal with TJ for a low pick?

.


Here's the important part right here that we all need to have in mind as well. I, for one, completely forgot about all the other team's expiring contracts. :laugh:

Justin Tyme
11-11-2010, 08:01 PM
Bird needs to make a trade for a b/u Center, b/c he can't continue to count on Foster being healthy. It's too long of a season to go with out one, and Solo leaves a lot to be desired. I like the way Hans is playing in a b/u PF role, and McBob has his moments, but the Pacers still need a good quality starting PF. To me Bird has to find a BIG, and the only way is thru a trade. I'm looking for a trade of some sort.

beast23
11-11-2010, 08:17 PM
I don't think we can trade SJones or DJones unless they are part of a bigger deal. At this time, Foster has not played and his value is nowhere near his salary. McRoberts will probably be re-signed, so he will not be traded. That leaves Ford and Dunleavy, who could possibly be traded, but it will be difficult to receive a player in return that we will want long-term for either of the two players.

I hope that each of our FAs to be plays fantastic this season, but I think it is much greater than a 50-50 chance that no trade will be made.

MLB007
11-11-2010, 08:20 PM
have we learned nothing?

no one wants them.

you're right of course.
How silly of us to forget that nobody wanted Murph and we didn't get anything of value in return.
Damn. :buddies:

MLB007
11-11-2010, 08:22 PM
Have you not seen how bad he's been being the 3rd option? I thought that he would excel and put up monster numbers w/ Wade and Lebron, but it's been the opposite.

How would you have him putting up monster numbers when he's playing with 2 guys that are used to having the ball ALL the time.
There ain't enough shots for Bosh to put up big numbers.

Sookie
11-11-2010, 08:28 PM
At least in Ford's case, he's not coming back. So I think, odds are, if we get a decent trade for him, we'll take it. It's either get a little something, or get nothing.

CooperManning
11-11-2010, 08:32 PM
Have you not seen how bad he's been being the 3rd option? I thought that he would excel and put up monster numbers w/ Wade and Lebron, but it's been the opposite.

We're 10 games into the season. Also, Lebron and Wade just wouldn't be cool with Riley trading Bosh. Not going to happen anytime within the next two seasons.

BringJackBack
11-11-2010, 08:33 PM
How would you have him putting up monster numbers when he's playing with 2 guys that are used to having the ball ALL the time.
There ain't enough shots for Bosh to put up big numbers.

I thought that James and Wade would be dishing the ball to Bosh for open jumpers and shots under the basket simply due to the attention that they would grab from the defenses around the league.

I thought he'd be their leading scorer because if the opposing team didn't double Wade and Lebron leaving Bosh one on one or wide open. Obviously I've been wrong.

I also thought that Bosh would be rebounding the ball a lot better than he is. His rebounding has been sad.

But yeah, back on topic. It is pretty much Greg Oden, Carl Landry, Carmelo Anthony (who won't go here obviously), and Zach Randolph vs. the other team's pieces. Depending on the pieces, if this is all free agency is giving us, I'd rather just save the cash. The only players I like at all and even have their own red flags are Greg and ZBo. I don't like Carl Landry because he is kind of soft - well, compared to Tyler Hansbrough and Josh McRoberts anyways- and he doesn't really rebound the ball very well.

Brad8888
11-11-2010, 08:34 PM
Most likely to be the expiring contract of Foster IMO, with a pre-arranged buyout, and hopefully a return to the Pacers for vet minimum at the end of the season so he can retire a Pacer.

Pacerized
11-11-2010, 08:45 PM
I think something will happen before the trade deadline. In fact this could be one of the most active mid-season trading years ever. We know the Nuggets will be active with almost every team interested in Melo. The Nuggets want to save payroll in the process of gaining young talent so we'd be an excellent third team in a trade. It seems like the Nets just want to get better right now. The Hawks are very likely going to be active and Memphis might want to make a move before they end up not being able to re-sign someone. If the Clippers and Rockets continue to struggle look for them to want to shake things up as well. Right now the Clippers would move Davis but we don't need him. I'd still do a Davis/Kaman trade for 2 expiring contracts and Rush. All of these teams have big men that could play the 4/5 which aren't untouchable in a trade. Smith, Kaman, Nene, Gasul, Miller, Scola. There are a lot of trade exceptions and expiring contracts out there but we have more pieces to work with then most other teams.

vnzla81
11-11-2010, 08:56 PM
Most likely to be the expiring contract of Foster IMO, with a pre-arranged buyout, and hopefully a return to the Pacers for vet minimum at the end of the season so he can retire a Pacer.

So you are going to pay Foster an extra 1.1mil(vet min) for him to retire as a Pacers instead of letting him retire as a Pacers? :confused:

vnzla81
11-11-2010, 09:04 PM
I can see the Pacers making a trade before the trade deadline, at this moment teams are trying to see what they have and see if the can make it to the playoffs, as soon as they feel that they are out of the picture they would star to find teams that are willing to take their contracts and maybe some good players.

Nene
Billups
Iguadola
Kaman
J Smith
Varejao
Arenas
Jason Richardson are few players that are going to be available.

Brad8888
11-12-2010, 09:37 AM
So you are going to pay Foster an extra 1.1mil(vet min) for him to retire as a Pacers instead of letting him retire as a Pacers? :confused:

It depends on who the Pacers could get for his expiring contract that they otherwise might not. 1.1 million is not much of a sacrifice if the Pacers could get a young talent that they could then use in the future. They are already going to spend Jeff's contract money anyway, why not get some benefit from it by spending a little bit extra?

ballism
11-12-2010, 09:48 AM
Well if he isn't signed with another team, u can sign him late into the season and retire him if you want. No need to pay full veteran minimum.
I'm a bit surprised at the attachment though. To me, he's been a symbol of bad times - not his fault, but anytime his minutes would go up it would be because someone is injured / couldnt behave. It would be 'crap, Foster times again, we need some major trades'.

Sparhawk
11-12-2010, 09:54 AM
I'd like for Dunleavy, Ford and Solo to be traded. This should open up minutes for George. The only way any of those guys gets traded is if a team is looking for expiring contracts.

I'd be fine with just letting all our expiring contracts expire at the end of the year.

One thing is for certain, I don't forsee the Pacers taking back any horrible long term contracts in order to make a trade.

MyFavMartin
11-12-2010, 10:03 AM
I could see trading them for another expiring contract, if it means getting something of an asset in return (young player or draft pick), but I don't think that will happen.

I can see TPTB making tweeks, but nothing that will impact our young core, to allow them to grow together this season and next (Collison, Rush, Danny, George, Tyler, McRoberts, Hibbert).

We resign McRoberts next summer will be our big move.

QuickRelease
11-12-2010, 10:15 AM
I can see the Pacers making a trade before the trade deadline, at this moment teams are trying to see what they have and see if the can make it to the playoffs, as soon as they feel that they are out of the picture they would star to find teams that are willing to take their contracts and maybe some good players.

Nene
Billups
Iguadola
Kaman
J Smith
Varejao
Arenas
Jason Richardson are few players that are going to be available.J Smith can likely be nixed from this list. Kaman is redundant with Roy. Sideshow Varejao would probably be ok, but I doubt Cleveland moves him. I'd really, really like Iguadola playing next to Danny! I think they'd complement each other well. I'd be all for an Iguodola/Speights deal if we had enough pieces to pull it off.

Arenas deserves a :scared:

Justin Tyme
11-12-2010, 10:57 AM
All of these teams have big men that could play the 4/5 which aren't untouchable in a trade. Smith, Kaman, Nene, Gasul, Miller, Scola. There are a lot of trade exceptions and expiring contracts out there but we have more pieces to work with then most other teams.


Marc Gasol & Scola are untouchable for their teams.

Mackey_Rose
11-12-2010, 11:12 AM
If any value can be gotten from trading Dunleavy, Ford, or Foster (the large expiring contracts) it needs to be done ASAP, and I'm sure Larry is doing everything he can to make that happen.

Ford is the one I'd most like to see traded.

Pacerized
11-12-2010, 11:33 AM
Kaman could play the 4 or 5 for us, let other teams match up to our lineup for a change. If the rare opportunity was to present itself I'd rather have us bring in another starting caliber center then to bring in a starting 4. The NBA is so thin on centers that I think a twin tower starting lineup would really dominate.



J Smith can likely be nixed from this list. Kaman is redundant with Roy. Sideshow Varejao would probably be ok, but I doubt Cleveland moves him. I'd really, really like Iguadola playing next to Danny! I think they'd complement each other well. I'd be all for an Iguodola/Speights deal if we had enough pieces to pull it off.

Arenas deserves a :scared: