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View Full Version : Jermaine O'Neal wants to retire as a Pacer



SMosley21
11-08-2010, 05:34 PM
http://twitter.com/jermaineoneal/status/1484546851741696

http://i53.tinypic.com/30c0ehy.jpg

Interesting. As much as people have a distaste for Jermaine these days, if it weren't for him, we wouldn't have been as successful as we were during Reggie's final few years. Sure his contract was a killer but the guy was an MVP contention leading up to that deal so it's not like we could have gotten him to stay for much cheaper. Just sucks that he couldn't stay healthy his last few seasons with us.

vnzla81
11-08-2010, 05:38 PM
:wtf2:

vapacersfan
11-08-2010, 05:39 PM
"There are many things I dislike/disliked about JO, but I refuse to deny that good times existed."

That said, I do not think he will or should retire with the Pacers.

He played here. We had good memories, we had bad. Then both sides moved on.

gummy
11-08-2010, 05:40 PM
I've never loved everything about JO but I have also never hated him. He was great fun to watch in his all too short prime and I appreciate his continued fondness for our Pacers.

Since86
11-08-2010, 05:41 PM
Pass.

If you wanted to retire a Pacer, you would have stayed.

xBulletproof
11-08-2010, 05:42 PM
What's the shock?

This is where he made his name. We gave him a chance. This is the organization that gave him every opportunity to make a name for himself, and he did just that. It's good to know he understands and appreciates that. He's not some ungrateful twerp.

pacer4ever
11-08-2010, 05:43 PM
someone ask what jersey u want to be remembered by that was his response. He doesnt want to come back andd play for us. He just wants to be remembered as a pacer.

SMosley21
11-08-2010, 05:43 PM
There are many things I dislike/disliked about JO, but I refuse to admit that good times existed.

To refuse to admit that good times existed is just denying a part of our team's history. You couldn't find a person in the state of Indiana who wasn't singing J.O.'s praises from around 2000 up until November 19th, 2004.

SMosley21
11-08-2010, 05:44 PM
Pass.

If you wanted to retire a Pacer, you would have stayed.

We traded Jermaine O'Neal.

vnzla81
11-08-2010, 05:48 PM
We traded Jermaine O'Neal.

And he was making 20mil

vapacersfan
11-08-2010, 05:48 PM
To refuse to admit that good times existed is just denying a part of our team's history. You couldn't find a person in the state of Indiana who wasn't singing J.O.'s praises from around 2000 up until November 19th, 2004.

That was a 100% typo on my part.

I mean to say "There are many things I dislike/disliked about JO, but I refuse to deny that good times existed."

In other words, many people have soured on him because his game lacked, but what many forget (IMO) is that he did have an A game, and he was having a MVP season for a year or two.

Sure he made some mistakes while here, but who doesnt. Also, he had to play with Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson...enough said

Since86
11-08-2010, 05:49 PM
We traded Jermaine O'Neal.

That's true. But I think JO controlled his own destiny, and while he wasn't Ron-like and publically made a statement, he just urged them to do so behind the scenes.

JO got what JO wanted. And that was to be moved.

SMosley21
11-08-2010, 05:50 PM
The only thing that kept Jermaine from being one of the top 2 or 3 Pacers of all time was the fact that we saw way too much of this...

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online/wp-content/uploads/joisback.jpg

and not enough of this...

http://www.bballcentral.com/newsimages/t1_jermaine.oneal2.jpg

vnzla81
11-08-2010, 05:51 PM
That's true. But I think JO controlled his own destiny, and while he wasn't Ron-like and publically made a statement, he just urged them to do so behind the scenes.

JO got what JO wanted. And that was to be moved.

The pacers also got what they wanted(draft pick, a pg and expiring)

vapacersfan
11-08-2010, 05:53 PM
1. JO wanted to be moved, IMO, and asked Donnie to trade him. He just did it the right way.

2. I think the injuries hurt, but he also had a false bravado that I think hurt his game a little.

The one thing that sticks out in my mind is the inury he got (against the Raptors?) where he hurt his hand/arm on a dunk. That says a lot, actually, when you think of a player and the first or second thing you think of is a injury

mb221
11-08-2010, 05:54 PM
That's true. But I think JO controlled his own destiny, and while he wasn't Ron-like and publically made a statement, he just urged them to do so behind the scenes.

JO got what JO wanted. And that was to be moved.

I'd say all parties involved got what they wanted. JO, management, and the fanbase were all ready to move on. You make it seem like the Pacers traded JO against their will while there was still some kind of desire to keep him around from any side.

That said, I respect that he respects Indiana for the place that it is and for the class of the organization. Even though things soured at the end of his time here, he still holds us dear in his heart and that shows what kind of person JO is.

gummy
11-08-2010, 05:54 PM
If you look at the twitter exchange it is clear he wasn't talking about playing with the Pacers in his last season. He was asked "when u retire what jersey will you wear?"

And his answer is that he wants to be remembered as a Pacer. Makes sense to me along the lines of xBulletproof's comments above and I have no problem with it.

avoidingtheclowns
11-08-2010, 05:55 PM
and not enough of this...

http://www.bballcentral.com/newsimages/t1_jermaine.oneal2.jpg

You wanted to see more Runi?

Scot Pollard
11-08-2010, 05:55 PM
dont come back here

we want to have nothing to do with you

after that trade we all went different ways

SMosley21
11-08-2010, 05:55 PM
And he was making 20mil

That doesn't change the fact that we traded him. He didn't leave us high and dry in free agency and then start talking all of this "I loved Indiana" stuff and he didn't make any trade demands (regardless of what anyone wants to believe, the Pacers or Jermaine O'Neal have never expressed that Jermaine had demanded a trade).

Since86
11-08-2010, 05:55 PM
The pacers also got what they wanted(draft pick, a pg and expiring)

Oh no, doubt about it. I think the Pacers made out like bandits.

I just don't like the whole retiring with a team after you sign a one day contract, or whatever the length is.

ilive4sports
11-08-2010, 05:56 PM
JO helped solidify me becoming a Pacers fan so I hope he does retire a Pacer. I dont want to have to sign him to a deal or anything, but NFL teams always do one day deals so a player retires with the team they want too and I would be perfectly fine with that. The man was a great player for us. 6 time all star and he was great in the community.

Trophy
11-08-2010, 05:58 PM
The pacers also got what they wanted(draft pick, a pg and expiring)

We got Roy's right out of it.

That was the best part of the deal.

Since86
11-08-2010, 05:58 PM
I'd say all parties involved got what they wanted. JO, management, and the fanbase were all ready to move on. You make it seem like the Pacers traded JO against their will while there was still some kind of desire to keep him around from any side.

That said, I respect that he respects Indiana for the place that it is and for the class of the organization. Even though things soured at the end of his time here, he still holds us dear in his heart and that shows what kind of person JO is.


No, I didn't mean for it to come off that way. But the point remains, he wanted to be gone.

Will anyone's view of JO really change if he retires as a Pacer? I know mine won't. I'll look at him the exact same way.

Signing a one day contract to retire with the team of your choice is selfish and dumb, IMHO. It does nothing except boost your own ego. It doesn't change anything, and why do something if nothing changes?

SMosley21
11-08-2010, 05:59 PM
You wanted to see more Runi?

LOL! I actually never had the displeasure of watching Runi play for the Pacers. I was serving in the Marine Corps when we got him and never caught a game while he was with the Pacers. I'm pretty happy about that, just based off of the things I've heard about how he played for us.

Will Galen
11-08-2010, 06:00 PM
Personally I would like to see Roy getting about 38 mpg and JO backing him up at 10 mpg.

SMosley21
11-08-2010, 06:01 PM
No, I didn't mean for it to come off that way. But the point remains, he wanted to be gone.

Will anyone's view of JO really change if he retires as a Pacer? I know mine won't. I'll look at him the exact same way.

Signing a one day contract to retire with the team of your choice is selfish and dumb, IMHO. It does nothing except boost your own ego. It doesn't change anything, and why do something if nothing changes?

How would that boost his ego exactly? When he retires he wants people to think of him as Jermaine O'Neal, former Indiana Pacers player. Was it selfish of Michael Jordan to want to go into the Hall of Fame as a member of the Chicago Bulls instead of the Washington Wizards?

xBulletproof
11-08-2010, 06:01 PM
Personally I would like to see Roy getting about 38 mpg and JO backing him up at 10 mpg.

It would sure beat Solo ..... :happydanc

cdash
11-08-2010, 06:05 PM
Good for him. Seems some of the animosity between him and the organization may have died down. JO wasn't my favorite Pacer ever, but he certainly made his mark on the organization. I have no ill will towards him.

sportfireman
11-08-2010, 06:05 PM
And he was making 20mil

The Pacers paid him that much....... call it poor negotiations but hey he said I want this much and they(Pacers) ended up saying okay.

vnzla81
11-08-2010, 06:07 PM
The pacers are paying Foster to retire as a pacers, how is that working out?

SMosley21
11-08-2010, 06:11 PM
The pacers are paying Foster to retire as a pacers, how is that working out?

Hindsight is 20/20, but you seem to be one of the people on here that try to act like you're some sort of fortune teller and know everything (after the fact).

Regardless of your nonsensical comment, O'Neal said he will PLAY HIS LAST GAME AS A CELTIC, but wants to retire as a Pacer. What's so hard to understand about that? He's not asking for another contract from the team.

Since86
11-08-2010, 06:13 PM
How would that boost his ego exactly? When he retires he wants people to think of him as Jermaine O'Neal, former Indiana Pacers player. Was it selfish of Michael Jordan to want to go into the Hall of Fame as a member of the Chicago Bulls instead of the Washington Wizards?

You're remembered for the jersey you wore when you built your legacy. Not what jersey you were wearing when you retired.

grace
11-08-2010, 06:14 PM
:wtf2:

^ What he said.

SMosley21
11-08-2010, 06:22 PM
How would that boost his ego exactly? When he retires he wants people to think of him as Jermaine O'Neal, former Indiana Pacers player. Was it selfish of Michael Jordan to want to go into the Hall of Fame as a member of the Chicago Bulls instead of the Washington Wizards?


You're remembered for the jersey you wore when you built your legacy. Not what jersey you were wearing when you retired.

Didn't answer either question.

vnzla81
11-08-2010, 06:23 PM
Hindsight is 20/20, but you seem to be one of the people on here that try to act like you're some sort of fortune teller and know everything (after the fact).

Regardless of your nonsensical comment, O'Neal said he will PLAY HIS LAST GAME AS A CELTIC, but wants to retire as a Pacer. What's so hard to understand about that? He's not asking for another contract from the team.

So you won't have to pay him to retire as a pacers? Nice

Edit: now I want to bring KG,Pierce and whoever is retiring (championship)

DaveP63
11-08-2010, 07:01 PM
Wasn't my favorite there at the end, but I've got no problem with it. Actually, I think it's pretty classy.

Hibbert
11-08-2010, 07:18 PM
The pacers are paying Foster to retire as a pacers, how is that working out?

How so? I'm very happy with Jeff and what he has done here in his time with us.

Hibbert
11-08-2010, 07:24 PM
You're remembered for the jersey you wore when you built your legacy. Not what jersey you were wearing when you retired.

Players in all sports do it all the time. They do it to the teams that gave them their first starts, best years, made them stars, etc. This practice is intended to be a way for players to have one last hurrah with the teams and fans that loved them the most through the years.

Peck
11-08-2010, 07:59 PM
To refuse to admit that good times existed is just denying a part of our team's history. You couldn't find a person in the state of Indiana who wasn't singing J.O.'s praises from around 2000 up until November 19th, 2004.

You obviously weren't around here then where you?

I can assure you that there were a few, mind you very few, of us who were never thrilled with Jermaine O'Neal.

Pacers#1Fan
11-08-2010, 08:00 PM
I would support this 110%. Like someone above said him backing up Roy would be perfect plus I'm a sucker for the sentimental.

ilive4sports
11-08-2010, 08:15 PM
No, I didn't mean for it to come off that way. But the point remains, he wanted to be gone.

Will anyone's view of JO really change if he retires as a Pacer? I know mine won't. I'll look at him the exact same way.

Signing a one day contract to retire with the team of your choice is selfish and dumb, IMHO. It does nothing except boost your own ego. It doesn't change anything, and why do something if nothing changes?

I disagree. People will look at him differently. Its no secret that there was some animosity between JO and the front office during the end of his time here. Plus his injury riddled finish here also left him with not so many fans here. I think if JO were to retire as a Pacer a lot of people would remember him as the 6 time all star who did a lot for the community rather than someone who was in the brawl and was injured often.

I dont understand how it is dumb or selfish. He knows if Indiana never traded for him, he would never have been the player he was. I never really understood all the hate that JO got. I always thought it was way overboard. The man definitely helped this franchise more than he hurt it. I think him retiring here would reconnect him with the fans and could bring him back into the city and maybe do some more good for the city.

Bball
11-08-2010, 08:32 PM
I wanted JO to retire a Pacer as well... back in about 2005....

;)

BlueNGold
11-08-2010, 09:48 PM
JO had my support for about a year and a half. At one time, he was my favorite player. ...then I got to know more about him and his game...and that changed.

Sure, his rep took a hit due to injury and some off court drama...but the prima donna nature...and the constant complaints when he should have been getting back on D...and the fadeaways and soft play...left a bad taste.

At the same time, there was a period of time where he was Garnett/Duncan level. A very short period of time though.

I'm fine with him retiring a Pacer, but not as an active player.

JonnyB83
11-09-2010, 03:53 AM
I'm completely on board with JO retiring as a Pacer. I'm a sucker for stuff like this. The Pacers gave him a shot and he helped elevate the franchise. It just sucks he was bit by the injury bug so often. I completely understand him having to sit out. I've delt with the same knee problems he's had (torn meniscus) and it hurts me and can be very limiting in what I can do playing basketball against my friends. I can't imagine how bad it would be having to deal with that and play against the best players in the world. So while I wished JO was out there I could completely understand.
The one big thing that got under my skin about JO was all the complaining, but the good memories out weigh the bad. Even if he doesn't retire a Pacer he will always be a Pacer in my book.

Mackey_Rose
11-09-2010, 06:17 AM
The only thing that kept Jermaine from being one of the top 2 or 3 Pacers of all time was the fact that we saw way too much of this...

In my opinion, regardless of his propensity to be in a suit, JO is the 2nd best Pacer to play in the NBA-era.

Major Cold
11-09-2010, 08:05 AM
In my opinion, regardless of his propensity to be in a suit, JO is the 2nd best Pacer to play in the NBA-era.


That is your opinion. But I would put him on the same level as Jalen Rose.

I would like to put these players ahead of him:

Mark Jackson
Dale Davis
Rik Smits
Reggie Miller.

Mackey_Rose
11-09-2010, 08:13 AM
That is your opinion. But I would put him on the same level as Jalen Rose.

I would like to put these players ahead of him:

Mark Jackson
Dale Davis
Rik Smits


Those guys played on better teams, but I do not think they were better players.

wintermute
11-09-2010, 08:52 AM
I wouldn't mind getting Jermaine back as long as he understands he's strictly a role player now, a la his Celtics role. Might be tough for him on the Pacers, since he was the top banana here once, but now he would be something like 9th or 10th man. Can J.O. handle the older statesman role as gracefully as Reggie did? I have my doubts.

But I agree that J.O. in his prime was probably one of the most talented Pacers in the NBA era.

Major Cold
11-09-2010, 09:02 AM
Davis was a better defender and rebounder. He was able to score on put backs and not get his shot rescinded over and over again. I think that JO was a top 8 at his position. But every time he played Duncan, Garnett, Wallace, Webber, or even Bosh he got outplayed by a considerable margin.

You said best Pacer not better player any way. Smits was willing in 2000 to be limited in his touches and play a different role. Jackson was a better Pacer than JO, simply because he made others better around him.

JO limited people if anything.

MTM
11-09-2010, 09:53 AM
That is your opinion. But I would put him on the same level as Jalen Rose.

I would like to put these players ahead of him:

Mark Jackson
Dale Davis
Rik Smits
Reggie Miller.


Chris Mullen, Detlef Schrempf, Byron Scott

ksuttonjr76
11-09-2010, 10:56 AM
Personally, the dislike for JO has no REAL foundation. The MAIN REASON that people disliked him was, because of his contract and injuries. Outside of that...:bs:. I guess Grant Hill must have been the most hated player in Orlando and Detroit respectively.

That's the problem with American fans when it comes to sports. Too many believe in the stupid concept of "If you make millions of dollars then you need play like a millions dollar and injuries are NO EXCUSE!". Those type of people of p*ss me off to no end, because they'll turn on a player for getting a contract that pays millions of dollars for "playing a game". Don't blame the player...blame the owners who agreed to it (ala Joe Johnson).

JO was and still is one of my top favorite Pacers Player. I know that I would take him over Dale Davis and Rik Smits in a heartbeat.

vnzla81
11-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Is funny to see how many people still love JO but hate Jackson and Artest for the brawl, for what I remember JO was also trowing punches and acting as a criminal too.

duke dynamite
11-09-2010, 11:09 AM
Is funny to see how many people still love JO but hate Jackson and Artest for the brawl, for what I remember JO was also trowing punches and acting as a criminal too.
Yeah, he threw a punch, but nothing he did that night should be considered as "criminal-like behavior".

vnzla81
11-09-2010, 11:20 AM
Yeah, he threw a punch, but nothing he did that night should be considered as "criminal-like behavior".

One punch was more than enough, I'm just trying to understand some guys point of view, the same people that keep saying that the brawl destroyed the Pacers and that Ron and Jackson acted like criminals that day are the same people that still like JO and would not mind seeing him back with the team, I doesn't make sense to me.

ksuttonjr76
11-09-2010, 11:31 AM
Is funny to see how many people still love JO but hate Jackson and Artest for the brawl, for what I remember JO was also trowing punches and acting as a criminal too.

Probably because Artest and Jackson went into the stands, and JO threw a punch at a guy who shouldn't have been on the floor in the first place. In my eyes, that's still defense. It's not like the fight broke out in Orange County...this was DETROIT.

ksuttonjr76
11-09-2010, 11:35 AM
One punch was more than enough, I'm just trying to understand some guys point of view, the same people that keep saying that the brawl destroyed the Pacers and that Ron and Jackson acted like criminals that day are the same people that still like JO and would not mind seeing him back with the team, I doesn't make sense to me.

As a side note, I'm don't even care that Jackson and Artest went into stands. I'm not of a fan of the "You make millions of dollars, you shouldn't....blah blah blah, or I'll let people do this to me....blah blah blah" concept either. People who make millions of dollars are still humans and will react as humans if you treat them inhuman.

Infinite MAN_force
11-09-2010, 11:58 AM
Sometimes I don't understand how people can be so bitter. Jermaine made his name here, and he has the class to recognize and appreciate the opportunity the organization gave him. I don't see how anyone would have a problem with this.

DocHolliday
11-09-2010, 12:09 PM
You obviously weren't around here then where you?

I can assure you that there were a few, mind you very few, of us who were never thrilled with Jermaine O'Neal.

Like me. I couldn't stand his game--having your main go-to player as a finesse 4...a non-power power forward. I hated in crunch time when it had to be JO backing his guy down and shooting some garbage fade away or other passive move. Especially when he's only playing about 60% of the games after January, if that. GO AWAY ALREADY, JO.

Gamble1
11-09-2010, 12:24 PM
I say we bring back Brad Miller and JO for one last season. A sort of upgrade from Foster.

bellisimo
11-09-2010, 12:35 PM
with JO I felt that he was thrown into a role which was just not his...which is the face of a franchise/being #1. I dont think it fit him naturally...still feel to this day that it was management who buttered him up and told him - from now on you are our #1 - go out there and make it happen.

even though he tried - i dont think he managed - which is not really his fault...

vapacersfan
11-09-2010, 12:46 PM
One punch was more than enough, I'm just trying to understand some guys point of view, the same people that keep saying that the brawl destroyed the Pacers and that Ron and Jackson acted like criminals that day are the same people that still like JO and would not mind seeing him back with the team, I doesn't make sense to me.

You dont understand the diffrence between going into the stands and having a guy come onto the court and defending yourself? :confused:

imawhat
11-09-2010, 01:02 PM
Jermaine was a great player in his prime. He wasn't very physical offensively, but he was everything else you could ask for from a PF.

He wanted nothing to do with the Pacers from about '06 on. He publicly abandoned his team without requesting a trade. Grass was always greener.

naptownmenace
11-09-2010, 01:04 PM
That is your opinion. But I would put him on the same level as Jalen Rose.

I would like to put these players ahead of him:

Mark Jackson
Dale Davis
Rik Smits
Reggie Miller.

JO in his prime was better than everyone of those players not named Reggie Miller. Not only did he have more talent, he produced more on the floor than those guys. JO ranks ahead of both Smits and Dale Davis in points scored, blocks, and rebounds as a Pacer. You don't have to like him but give the man his due. He's the best PF to play for the Pacers - this is not up for debate when you ask any fan of other NBA teams.


* NBA All-Star:[24] 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
* All-NBA:[24]

* Second Team: 2004
* Third Team: 2002, 2003

* NBA Most Improved Player Award: 2002
* NBA Magic Johnson Award: 2004
* Holds the Pacers franchise records for:

* Most blocks in a game: 10 (January 22, 2003 vs. the Toronto Raptors)
* Most blocks in a season: 228 (2000–01 - #1 in the NBA)
* Most rebounds in a playoffs game: 22 (April 29, 2003 vs. Boston Celtics)
* Highest rebounding average in a playoff series: 17.5 (2003 Eastern Conference First Round vs. Boston Celtics)
* Most free throws attempted in a game: 25 (January 4, 2005 vs. the Milwaukee Bucks)

He was also in the top 10 in the NBA in total rebounds for 4 straight seasons (2000-2004) and ranked in the top 10 in blocks per game 6 straight seasons.

Since86
11-09-2010, 01:26 PM
Didn't answer either question.


How would that boost his ego exactly?

Because it wouldn't change anyone's opinion about how JO, expect JO? I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time I've stated that opinion.




Was it selfish of Michael Jordan to want to go into the Hall of Fame as a member of the Chicago Bulls instead of the Washington Wizards?

Yes. Or are you saying that when you think of MJ, you picture him in a Wizards jersey?

Since86
11-09-2010, 01:48 PM
Personally, the dislike for JO has no REAL foundation. The MAIN REASON that people disliked him was, because of his contract and injuries. Outside of that...:bs:. I guess Grant Hill must have been the most hated player in Orlando and Detroit respectively.


Really? If you want you "best" player to be a post player, that shoots in the low 40%, that shys away from contact, then more power to you. But that's not the type of player I want anchoring the offense.

Especially, when said player throws a hissy fit in the lockerroom 9 games into the season because the head coach tries changing up the offense to get other players involved more.

That's not the only thing that rubbed me the wrong way. Him always talking about how he was going to dominate, and get back to his All Star form....

He's just not what I wanted out of a leader, nor is he what I wanted as a #1 option.

NuffSaid
11-09-2010, 01:56 PM
Interesting...

Kinda makes you wonder what are the rules concerning player retirement? Does a player have to retire w/the team he last played for OR does he get to choose the team for himself?

If the latter, I'd welcome hanging JO's jersey from the Fieldhouse rafters. He might not have left here on a good note, but he helped keep this team a contender for most of his career. It's only been over the last 2-3 yrs that he's been out of a Pacers uniform (Toranto, Miami now Boston). I think his Pacers-NBA legacy is pretty solid.

pacer4ever
11-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Interesting...

Kinda makes you wonder what are the rules concerning player retirement? Does a player have to retire w/the team he last played for OR does he get to choose the team for himself?

If the latter, I'd welcome hanging JO's jersey from the Fieldhouse rafters. He might not have left here on a good note, but he helped keep this team a contender for most of his career. It's only been over the last 2-3 yrs that he's been out of a Pacers uniform (Toranto, Miami now Boston). I think his Pacers-NBA legacy is pretty solid.

The rafters WTF??? he doesnt desevere that

DocHolliday
11-09-2010, 03:58 PM
JO in his prime was better than everyone of those players not named Reggie Miller. Not only did he have more talent, he produced more on the floor than those guys. JO ranks ahead of both Smits and Dale Davis in points scored, blocks, and rebounds as a Pacer. You don't have to like him but give the man his due. He's the best PF to play for the Pacers - this is not up for debate when you ask any fan of other NBA teams.


* NBA All-Star:[24] 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
* All-NBA:[24]

* Second Team: 2004
* Third Team: 2002, 2003

* NBA Most Improved Player Award: 2002
* NBA Magic Johnson Award: 2004
* Holds the Pacers franchise records for:

* Most blocks in a game: 10 (January 22, 2003 vs. the Toronto Raptors)
* Most blocks in a season: 228 (200001 - #1 in the NBA)
* Most rebounds in a playoffs game: 22 (April 29, 2003 vs. Boston Celtics)
* Highest rebounding average in a playoff series: 17.5 (2003 Eastern Conference First Round vs. Boston Celtics)
* Most free throws attempted in a game: 25 (January 4, 2005 vs. the Milwaukee Bucks)

He was also in the top 10 in the NBA in total rebounds for 4 straight seasons (2000-2004) and ranked in the top 10 in blocks per game 6 straight seasons.

Not surprising that he is above Smits in any those categories, and it only surprised me that he's ahead of Dale in rebounds. Who else would be in the discussion for NBA-era Pacers power forwards, La Salle Thompson? He put up numbers, fantastic. I'd take Dale over him any day for leadership, intimidation factor, and reliability.

ksuttonjr76
11-09-2010, 04:42 PM
Really? If you want you "best" player to be a post player, that shoots in the low 40%, that shys away from contact, then more power to you. But that's not the type of player I want anchoring the offense.

Especially, when said player throws a hissy fit in the lockerroom 9 games into the season because the head coach tries changing up the offense to get other players involved more.

That's not the only thing that rubbed me the wrong way. Him always talking about how he was going to dominate, and get back to his All Star form....

He's just not what I wanted out of a leader, nor is he what I wanted as a #1 option.

Sorry, but there's a difference between not liking him for the TYPE of player he was, and not liking him as a person. The general feeling I get from this boards is that people don't like him as person.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=615

He was scoring! Does it matter how he scores? Plus, JO's overall FG was low, because he did shoot mid-range jumpers too. Lastly, how do you average over 2.0 BPG, yet be scared of contact? The problem with some people is that they get mad when "xxx" player is not a leader. When "xxx" player never becomes a "leader", then people get their panties in a bunch and want to trade the guy. Granger could average 30 PPG, 10 RPG, 2.0 BPG, 2.0 SPG, while shooting 40 3PT%, and some people would want to trade him, because he's not a "leader".

EDIT:

Not surprising that he is above Smits in any those categories, and it only surprised me that he's ahead of Dale in rebounds. Who else would be in the discussion for NBA-era Pacers power forwards, La Salle Thompson? He put up numbers, fantastic. I'd take Dale over him any day for leadership, intimidation factor, and reliability.

Case in point.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=187

Dale Davis only averaged a double-double for ONE season, and NEVER averaged more 2.0 BPG.

Since86
11-09-2010, 04:53 PM
So let me get this straight.

First you tell us that no one can dislike JO other than the fact that he was overpaid, and that he was always injured. Then you're given more reasons why we can, in fact, dislike JO and you tell me that my reasons don't count because 1) you were talking about people disliking JO the person, and 2) it doesn't matter how he shoots, the only thing that matters is that he scores?


How about this, don't try and tell me who I don't like, and the reasons why I don't like them, and don't try and tell me that I can't possibly not like someone for the reasons that I listed, and I'm sure we will get along fine. I think it's quite funny that you know my opinions better than I know them.


There hasn't been one post saying JO was a bad person. There are posts talking about his personal shortcomings in the game of basketball, like my post pointing out that he wasn't a good team leader. Scoring points doesn't equal leadership, no matter how you slice it. AI a good leader? Are you going to argue that point too? I mean he was their leading scorer, and because he was a good scorer, he must have been a good leader. Leadership has nothing to do with the stats you put up. Leadership often falls on the best player, but that doesn't automatically make them a good leader.

And really, blocking shots now equals playing with contact? Well then I will respectfully bow out of the discussion, because you have now proven that Jermaine O'Neal likes contact more than Dale Davis, because JO averaged more blocks per game than Dale.

So that's your argument really? JO is a more phsyical player than Dale Davis?

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

EDIT: Give Troy Murphy the same about of time in a Pacers jersey, and he breaks that rebounding record. JO has three 10+ rebounding seasons. Troy has five.

Troy is obviously a better rebounder.
Troy's career rebounding average is 8.6/game, compared to JO's 7.5/game.

So Troy>JO>Dale? Yeah, that's right.

Scot Pollard
11-09-2010, 04:55 PM
does he still live in indy

ksuttonjr76
11-09-2010, 05:08 PM
So let me get this straight.

First you tell us that no one can dislike JO other than the fact that he was overpaid, and that he was always injured. Then you're given more reasons why we can, in fact, dislike JO and you tell me that my reasons don't count because 1) you were talking about people disliking JO the person, and 2) it doesn't matter how he shoots, the only thing that matters is that he scores?


How about this, don't try and tell me who I don't like, and the reasons why I don't like them, and don't try and tell me that I can't possibly not like someone for the reasons that I listed, and I'm sure we will get along fine. I think it's quite funny that you know my opinions better than I know them.


There hasn't been one post saying JO was a bad person. There are posts talking about his personal shortcomings in the game of basketball, like my post pointing out that he wasn't a good team leader. Scoring points doesn't equal leadership, no matter how you slice it. AI a good leader? Are you going to argue that point too? I mean he was their leading scorer, and because he was a good scorer, he must have been a good leader. Leadership has nothing to do with the stats you put up. Leadership often falls on the best player, but that doesn't automatically make them a good leader.

And really, blocking shots now equals playing with contact? Well then I will respectfully bow out of the discussion, because you have now proven that Jermaine O'Neal likes contact more than Dale Davis, because JO averaged more blocks per game than Dale.

So that's your argument really? JO is a more phsyical player than Dale Davis?

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

EDIT: Give Troy Murphy the same about of time in a Pacers jersey, and he breaks that rebounding record. JO has three 10+ rebounding seasons. Troy has five.

Troy is obviously a better rebounder.

Yes, Troy was a better rebounder. There's nothing to really argue about here.

My previous statement was misleading, your statement I kinda agreed with in the sense that you at least defined the type of player you wanted. The part that I disagreed with was the low 40 FG% and "afraid of contact" statements. We'll have to agree to disagree on those two statements.

As for for being a leader, where is it written that the best player HAS to be a Leader? That's my problem with some posters regarding JO and Granger, and you kinda agreed with me in so many words. With some posters, it's a crime to be the best player (and in some cases, the highest paid) on the team, and NOT be a leader. Can a player just be good not have to worry about being a leader?

Since86
11-09-2010, 05:10 PM
Yes, Troy was a better rebounder. There's nothing to really argue about here.

Oh wow. I beg to differ.


Can a player just be good not have to worry about being a leader?

Definately, but that's not the case with JO. Reggie literally handed JO the keys to the Pacers. JO said he was the leader, Reggie said he was the leader, most people were in agreement that JO was the leader. Except some didn't follow him so......

JO wasn't a good leader, but as far as the team was concerned he was their leader regardless.

Dr. Awesome
11-09-2010, 05:11 PM
I said all summer long he'd be a perfect PF next to Hibbert. He plays defense and can spread the floor a little with the jumper he used too much. I thought we shoulda tried to sign him for cheap just as a stopgap and possible mentor.

bellisimo
11-09-2010, 05:28 PM
Oh wow. I beg to differ.



Definately, but that's not the case with JO. Reggie literally handed JO the keys to the Pacers. JO said he was the leader, Reggie said he was the leader, most people were in agreement that JO was the leader. Except some didn't follow him so......

JO wasn't a good leader, but as far as the team was concerned he was their leader regardless.

It was Donnie who gave the keys to JO - and Reggie tried his best to provide support

NuffSaid
11-09-2010, 06:55 PM
The rafters WTF??? he doesnt desevere that
I said hang his jersey, not the man (silly). :laugh:

naptownmenace
11-09-2010, 07:01 PM
Not surprising that he is above Smits in any those categories, and it only surprised me that he's ahead of Dale in rebounds. Who else would be in the discussion for NBA-era Pacers power forwards, La Salle Thompson? He put up numbers, fantastic. I'd take Dale over him any day for leadership, intimidation factor, and reliability.

I loved Dale when he was a player but I always wished he was better offensively and as a rebounder and shot blocker. He finally put it all together and was a big reason the Pacers advanced out of the first round and into the Finals in 2000.

Still, I'd take JO in his prime over Dale in his prime any day of the year.

huber14
11-09-2010, 07:25 PM
I said hang his jersey, not the man (silly). :laugh:

And he was saying the he doesn't deserve to have his jerssey hung

Powww
11-10-2010, 02:09 AM
Why do people condemn Jermaine O'neal for making 20 million dollars? Why is that a knock on him?

That was his market value when he was a free agent. The Spurs were offering him the same amount of money, if he took that people would have looked at him as a trader. But he took the Pacers offer cause he wanted to stay with this franchise.

What would you have done, asked for less money? Said oh no Larry and Donnie, please dont give me the max I'll play for 5 million for 7 years.

Things didnt end right, his body broke down on him and he wasnt the leader everyone wanted him to be. But I dont see how any can deny the great times that we had when he was here, watching him grow from a kid that couldnt get his butt off the bench in Portland to one of the best players in the NBA. He came back early from injuries early to try and help the team, sometimes he did and sometimes he didnt.

Glad that he sees himself as a Pacer, as do I.

TMJ31
11-10-2010, 03:27 AM
I am a sucker for sentiment, and I think that the fact that JO (a current Celtic) openly admitted he wants to be remembered as a Pacer, despite having just began his run with Boston, says a lot about him.

Things were rocky towards the end of his stay here... But things of that nature happen in sports.

JO obviously holds the Pacers near to his heart and clearly values his time here as the highlight and high point of his career.

So why are we crucifying the guy because he is stating that he would like to be remembered as "Jermaine O'Neal; Indiana Pacers All-Star"

I for one have always been an enormous fan of JO's (second favorite Pacer behind Reggie), and I will be the first to admit there were bad moments and spans during his tenure, but nothing to warrant the hate and animosity he gets on these boards so often.

I am 100% behind JO and would love to see him retire as a Pacer (whether it be "ceremoniously" or literally)

Major Cold
11-10-2010, 08:14 AM
I don't care about the stats. The topic was better Pacer. And Dale was willing to play his role and do it to the best of his ability.

I remember a regular season game in Boston where JO demanded the offense be ran through him. He stagnated the offensive flow and many play the coach for that one.

When it came to actually playing and athleticism I would say that JO was better. But when it comes to being a better Pacer and working with your teammates, Dale and Smits were better.

The NBA was drastically different from JO's prime to Dale's prime. And I would say that the competition level was more severe in Dale's era than in JO's era. The 60 win team would have been a 3 seed at best in the East of 98.

Slick Pinkham
11-10-2010, 09:22 AM
I'd welcome him back if he happily accepted a bench role; I'm thinking Solo's role for Solo's money.

Then we can all go skating on the new ice rink in Hell.

naptownmenace
11-11-2010, 07:03 PM
I don't care about the stats. The topic was better Pacer. And Dale was willing to play his role and do it to the best of his ability.

I don't care about sentimentality. Sentimentality doesn't come into play for me when I think of who the best Pacers player was at X position but obviously it does for you. We don't have to base it on stats but stats = tangible production. If you just honestly go down the pros and cons for DD and JO, there would be more Pros in JO's column.

I'll go with the 6 time All-Star that was good enough to come in 3rd place for League MVP voting and the guy that was the best player on the Pacers for 6 years. That's good enough for me.

As far as their roles were concerned, Dale was never asked to be the best player on the floor or to be a leader but JO was. He was also on a team with better veteran players and benefited from playing with Smits, Reggie, and Mark Jackson. I think JO was willing to play his role and do it to the best of his ability as well.

datguy
11-12-2010, 11:16 AM
Of course he wants to retire a Pacer..this is where he was most productive, the Pacers were the highlight of his career..he did well for us while he was here. We were lucky enough to have him we he peeked and even luckier to get rid of him on his downfall. He hasn't done much since we traded him.

notque
11-12-2010, 11:31 AM
He was much better than he every had any right to be, and he wasn't as good as he thought, and that was frustrating.

I have a huge distaste for him now, and there's no good reason for it. It's a residual feeling from watching all of those post ups when he didn't have his legs under him, and would consistently fail.

But that was his body, not him. I think my distaste is unwarranted logically, but still exists to some extent.

PacerGuy
11-12-2010, 11:37 AM
After it all, after all that has been said, written & done, I am glad to hear that he does, and kinda hope that he will.
JO did not want his teammates jumping into the stands, shooting up nightclubs, or doing drugs. JO did not want to fail.
You may agrue that JO was not the leader we all wanted him to be, that he did not continue to develope into the player we thought he was capable of, and can argue that he let ego/money/relationships/mental toughness affect him and prevented him from being the face of the franchise for a decade + we all hoped & prayed he would be.
Things ended badly, but there was enough good there we should all be thankful for and we should all like the fact that he wants to be remembered as a Pacer forever - how often have we heard that? Not much, & IMO is sounds nice!

RWB
11-12-2010, 01:25 PM
You may agrue that JO was not the leader we all wanted him to be,


Boy did you nail that one and the problem wasn't his public leadership, it was behind the scenes. JO and cell phones will live in infamy.

15th parallel
11-12-2010, 02:05 PM
Whether we like it or not, JO is the best PF yet in recent Pacers history. The numbers he put up, the awards and recognitions he got, all speak for JO and his contributions as a Pacer. Recurring injuries and his diva personality as some pointed out have ruined his successful career, but nonetheless we cannot deny that he's an all-star almost reaching the level of Duncan and KG (he was once 3rd in MVP race during the 61-win season, the best regular season of that year and also a franchise record).

With regards to his retirement plans, there is no problem in having him retire as a Pacer (or adding him up in the roster) for as long as he embraces the truth that he's a 3rd string big man at best right now and be able to stop demanding the ball too much on offense. I'll first evaluate his season with the Celtics before even thinking of adding him to the roster.

Future_NBA_Player
11-12-2010, 02:42 PM
I would like him to retire as a Pacers player if that means that Solo isn't the back up center anymore!!!!!

Since86
11-12-2010, 02:47 PM
I'll go with the 6 time All-Star that was good enough to come in 3rd place for League MVP voting and the guy that was the best player on the Pacers for 6 years. That's good enough for me.

Well then you can have the 2003 Pacers, and I'll take the 2000 squad. Deal?

Good for JO, that he got all those awards. That's exactly what he cared about, his awards. HE's going to dominate his opponents, he's going to get back into MVP form, blah blah blah. Where did he end up? On an underachieving team full of idiots that couldn't keep their guns or weed at home, who liked to get in bar fights.

But as long as JO was "dominating" that's all that mattered.

Since86
11-12-2010, 02:49 PM
Things ended badly, but there was enough good there we should all be thankful for and we should all like the fact that he wants to be remembered as a Pacer forever - how often have we heard that? Not much, & IMO is sounds nice!

You don't seem like you've forgotten the good times. Are you saying that if JO doesn't retire a Pacer, you will forget them? And are you saying that if he does retire as a Pacer that you won't?

Nothing is going to change. His legacy won't change one bit.

Future_NBA_Player
11-12-2010, 04:11 PM
Well then you can have the 2003 Pacers, and I'll take the 2000 squad. Deal?

Good for JO, that he got all those awards. That's exactly what he cared about, his awards. HE's going to dominate his opponents, he's going to get back into MVP form, blah blah blah. Where did he end up? On an underachieving team full of idiots that couldn't keep their guns or weed at home, who liked to get in bar fights.

But as long as JO was "dominating" that's all that mattered.

I don't care what my players do, or how much trouble they get into as long as they win. Winners get to do what they want (Talladega Nights) (Ricky Bobby)

timid
11-12-2010, 07:51 PM
I got him back on my Pacers in 2K11, lol...He's doin ok....

Ryan
11-12-2010, 08:19 PM
I don't see how anyone would have a problem with this. I guess some find fault in everything.

Guy enjoyed his time here and is showing respect to the organization.