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View Full Version : "Coachspeak" thread, for the record.



McKeyFan
11-06-2010, 10:10 AM
JOB has become famous for saying one thing and doing another.

Some call these contradictions. Some call them hypocritical. Others, like our venerable Uncle Buck (revered in every area except for his JOB apologetics), call it "coachspeak."

Last night, James Posey was the first big off the bench after JOB said a couple of days before that Tyler was now our first big off the bench. Tyler has way outplayed Posey, and Tyler seems critical to our success, but whatever. Coachspeak won the day.

A few weeks ago, JOB said AJ was the best player in the preseason. Translated via coachspeak, this actually means, "AJ will never see the court. In fact, he will not dress during the regular season."

It's hard to take Jim O'Brien seriously.

I'm starting this primarily as a thread to keep a record of all the coachspeaks that occur this year. When they happen, drag up this thread and add another. Ought to be good for at least 25 to 50.

If you want to list past coachspeaks, that's fine too. And I'm sure there might be some banter and some pestiness from Flox the fly. But mainly it's a place to list more contradictions as they occur.

And for those of you who will say we don't need another Jim O'Stubborn thread, I will counter that those are the only kind we probably need. Until what needs to be done is done. Notice there aren't a lot of threads anymore about Stephen Jackson or Tinsley.

Pacers#1Fan
11-06-2010, 11:26 AM
Just spitballing here but has anyone ever mentioned maybe petitioning for a coaching change? May seem a little over-the-top but at least it would show the organization that a decent portion of the fan-base is displeased (although I think by now it's pretty common knowledge). Like I said, just an idea, but I believing actions would speak louder than posts on a forum.

Mackey_Rose
11-06-2010, 11:28 AM
He said he will be going with a three-wing rotation with Rush being fourth in line, and thus being left out of the rotation.

I fully expect to see Rush starting Tuesday and probably playing 40 minutes.

Hibbert
11-06-2010, 11:30 AM
You can add JOB saying the offense will be run through Roy and that not being the case at all, especially in a critical conference matchup with the Bucks whom didn't have Bogut, the only one on their team who can matchup with Roy. Roy did not take a single shot in the 3rd quarter and he really never had the chance, they weren't running $*** through him.

McKeyFan
11-06-2010, 11:36 AM
You can add JOB saying the offense will be run through Roy and that not being the case at all, especially in a critical conference matchup with the Bucks whom didn't have Bogut, the only one on their team who can matchup with Roy. Roy did not take a single shot in the 3rd quarter and he really never had the chance, they weren't running $*** through him.

In fairness, I will say that Roy IS getting the ball on a lot of possessions. But as the season goes along, they are more and more high post touches, not low post.

And that pretty much ruins the concept.

TheDon
11-06-2010, 11:38 AM
I think you can add the fact that he said that we'll be forcing people to match up to us instead of matchup to the other team. The only game I can think where we actually played our game was the home opener against philly where Roy dominated Brand. That was more of a fluke though, cause ever since then and even in San Antonio when other teams went small obie's eyes just lit up and I'll be damned if we didn't match right up with them! I want us to succeed but I don't have to worry about that as long as obie is calling the shots.

ReggiesUncle
11-06-2010, 12:56 PM
My favorite so far this season happened in the first 2 games. Psycho T didn't play in game 1 v. Spurs because according to the coach he wasn't ready/up to speed w the offense, etc whatever. So game 2 he plays. Plays well. And he is in at the END of the game! wow what a drastic change Tyler must have made in 2 days....or more like what a contradiction by the coach

pacer4ever
11-06-2010, 01:09 PM
He said he will be going with a three-wing rotation with Rush being fourth in line, and thus being left out of the rotation.

I fully expect to see Rush starting Tuesday and probably playing 40 minutes.

hope so and mike D the 4th wing :)

Sookie
11-06-2010, 01:14 PM
He said he will be going with a three-wing rotation with Rush being fourth in line, and thus being left out of the rotation.

I fully expect to see Rush starting Tuesday and probably playing 40 minutes.

Dun's going to start.

Paul George is going to lose all of his minutes. Making our second unit even worse. Because, at the very least, George was aggressive offensively, even if his shot wasn't falling. Rush, who should probaby get all of the shots in the second unit..will most likely get about three.

Hicks
11-06-2010, 04:24 PM
He said he will be going with a three-wing rotation with Rush being fourth in line, and thus being left out of the rotation.

I fully expect to see Rush starting Tuesday and probably playing 40 minutes.

Yep. You were absolutely right. Well, it's only talk from Jim, so as we all know it's not quite time to declare this one, but according to tweets from Mike Wells about an hour ago, Jim said he plans to now use all four in the rotation.

Sookie
11-06-2010, 04:37 PM
Yep. You were absolutely right. Well, it's only talk from Jim, so as we all know it's not quite time to declare this one, but according to tweets from Mike Wells about an hour ago, Jim said he plans to now use all four in the rotation.

Seeing as JOB has said two things that are the opposite of each other, this is an odd one.

I'm thinking...he starts Dun, and he has a three man rotation of Danny/Dun/Rush. Particularly since Paul George was about the only Pacer to play well last game. It only makes sense that he's benched.

Seriously, I think JOB's just messing with us now. Saying two things that are the opposite of each other before a game is played..but there's always an alternative he can eventually go with. :D

Unclebuck
11-07-2010, 08:01 AM
I don't know why in the world you guys stilll listen to Jim.

Seriously, if this really gets under your skin, then stop listening to him

Sparhawk
11-07-2010, 11:59 AM
If a coach says one thing and does something else as often as JOB, the fans won't trust him. But what about the players? What about management? What's going on with that?

I simply don't trust JOB. I try not to pay attention to what he says, but it's kind of hard when it gets posted all over Pacers boards and then we find out during the game that he does something else entirely. It boggles the mind.

Mackey_Rose
11-07-2010, 12:37 PM
If a coach says one thing and does something else as often as JOB, the fans won't trust him. But what about the players? What about management? What's going on with that?

I simply don't trust JOB. I try not to pay attention to what he says, but it's kind of hard when it gets posted all over Pacers boards and then we find out during the game that he does something else entirely. It boggles the mind.

I can't speak for the management, but the players are not happy right now. Not at all.

They aren't stupid. They've been around the game their whole lives. They know when a coach is holding them back.

McKeyFan
11-07-2010, 02:21 PM
I don't know why in the world you guys stilll listen to Jim.

Seriously, if this really gets under your skin, then stop listening to him
Why do we still listen? Because he is the head coach of our franchise.

Rather, why aren't you calling for the ouster of a head coach who has lost a large part of his credibility?

Bball
11-07-2010, 02:45 PM
Why do we still listen? Because he is the head coach of our franchise.

Rather, why aren't you calling for the ouster of a head coach who has lost a large part of his credibility?

Actually, why isn't Larry Bird calling for his ouster?

McKeyFan
11-07-2010, 02:48 PM
Actually, why isn't Larry Bird calling for his ouster?

Because he's listening to Uncle Buck?

:whoknows:

Bball
11-07-2010, 03:16 PM
Because he's listening to Uncle Buck?

:whoknows:

That can't be true...

NOBODY listens to UncleBuck!!!



;)

kester99
11-07-2010, 03:22 PM
Wasn't aware the coach needed credibility with the readers of PD. And none of you have any evidence whatsoever that he's lost credibility with the players. And everyone that calls for the firing keeps ignoring the economic facts of the coming CBA, the contracts involved, the difficulties (and pointlessness) of getting a new coach in here now when we don't know what FAs or other players we might get next year.

TPTB are sticking with their plan, and that's what they should be doing. We'll see how formidable a team that gives us at some point next year, and how much promise they have at that point. In the meantime, there's no real contradiction between 'win now' and 'continue to develop players.' You can try to do both at the same time.

Are we going to win now? Not if we keep the offensive percentages we have shown the last couple of games. I do wish, as we all do, that JOB would quit turning the ball over, and hit more of his layups.

Unclebuck
11-07-2010, 03:49 PM
Why do we still listen? Because he is the head coach of our franchise.

Rather, why aren't you calling for the ouster of a head coach who has lost a large part of his credibility?

First of all, I did say after last season that I thought he should be replaced. I just don't harp on it day after day after day.

But now that he is still here, until I know he has lost credibility with the players, I think he should stay. I don't give a hoot about whether he has lost credibility with the fans and or people in this forum

McKeyFan
11-07-2010, 04:15 PM
But now that he is still here, until I know he has lost credibility with the players, I think he should stay.
How do you know he hasn't?

I assume he has. Just common sense. But Bird seems too stubborn to make a change.

I mean, what's a player to do if Bird won't make a change? They've signed contracts. They can't control who the coach is.

Just because our players are decent human beings who don't act like Randy Moss doesn't mean an inconsistent coach doesn't drive them batty.

Unclebuck
11-07-2010, 04:19 PM
How do you know he hasn't?

I assume he has. Just common sense. But Bird seems too stubborn to make a change.

I mean, what's a player to do if Bird won't make a change? They've signed contracts. They can't control who the coach is.

Just because our players are decent human beings who don't act like Randy Moss doesn't mean an inconsistent coach doesn't drive them batty.

Read the NBA thread and look at Kstat's account of what the Pistons are doing to their coach. That is not happening here.

It isn't about being decent human beings. If the players didn't respect JOB, Bird would know that

Sookie
11-07-2010, 04:30 PM
I think keeping JOB is a finacial decision, not a basketball one for Larry.

I think looking at the way the players are behaving to decide whether they are for or against JOB will create an inaccurate perception. For many reasons, that we've been through time and time before, not all teams act the same.

pacer4ever
11-07-2010, 04:37 PM
]I think keeping JOB is a finacial decision, not a basketball one for Larry. [/B]I think looking at the way the players are behaving to decide whether they are for or against JOB will create an inaccurate perception. For many reasons, that we've been through time and time before, not all teams act the same.

then why did they pick up his option for this year?????

Sookie
11-07-2010, 04:42 PM
then why did they pick up his option for this year?????

Because there is a looming lockout and no new good coach is going to take a deal for a year.

pacer4ever
11-07-2010, 04:44 PM
Because there is a looming lockout and no new good coach is going to take a deal for a year.

if we sign a new coach for 4 yrs we dont have to pay him during a lockout.

Mackey_Rose
11-07-2010, 05:02 PM
Read the NBA thread and look at Kstat's account of what the Pistons are doing to their coach. That is not happening here.

It isn't about being decent human beings. If the players didn't respect JOB, Bird would know that

Bird does know it. The players have voiced their opposition, they just aren't doing it publicly because they are more professional than their Detroit counterparts.

Naptown_Seth
11-07-2010, 05:37 PM
I don't know why in the world you guys stilll listen to Jim.

Seriously, if this really gets under your skin, then stop listening to him
Wait a second. You are putting the blame on US for listening to HIM when he hasn't made good on his quotes? That's some kind of logic.

I get to say whatever I want and if it turns out I fibbed a little then it's your fault for being upset by it.

Not only that, but you're actually trashing him out if you are telling us that he's so full of crap when he speaks that we shouldn't even listen to him or believe anything he says. Great rep for the coach, hard to see why we wouldn't love that.


And I haven't even been unhappy with what he's DONE so far this year, other than not using Tyler in the first game.



It isn't about being decent human beings. If the players didn't respect JOB, Bird would know that How do you know Bird doesn't know that? There is no way a kid like Hibbert is ever going to be anything but pro-coach and pro-team.


We DO get quotes about the system from players all the time. We had Jarrett Jack blatantly call out TJ Ford's play when JOB refused to reign it in. Guys say things that imply the issues without being jerks and saying things outright.

Sookie
11-07-2010, 05:43 PM
Bird does know it. The players have voiced their opposition, they just aren't doing it publicly because they are more professional than their Detroit counterparts.

I'm not sure any group of players could be treated and coached the way JOB has coached this team, for the past few years, and have any of them be happy.

CableKC
11-07-2010, 10:23 PM
Yep. You were absolutely right. Well, it's only talk from Jim, so as we all know it's not quite time to declare this one, but according to tweets from Mike Wells about an hour ago, Jim said he plans to now use all four in the rotation.
Cool....that means that we get to see more lineups like the one we used against the Bucks at the end of that game where Granger or Posey are the PFs and Hibbert is the only Player inside the paint trying to fight off 3 other Players for a rebound :dance:

:suicide4:

Since86
11-08-2010, 06:20 PM
Read the NBA thread and look at Kstat's account of what the Pistons are doing to their coach. That is not happening here.

It isn't about being decent human beings. If the players didn't respect JOB, Bird would know that

Wasn't it also your opinion that Rick needed to go because he lost the team?

I don't remember the players doing anything like what they're doing in Det. to Rick, so obviously then you were wrong in saying Rick had lost the team and needed to go for it.


I think the real issue is that, there is more than one way to tell if the coach has lost the team. Not everyone acts the same way.

McKeyFan
11-13-2010, 04:58 PM
After the Houston game:


Regardless JOB did say at his Q&A with the fans that he was not going to pull Roy off the floor for defensive purposes or mismatches. In other words he wasn't going to let the other team dictate to him when Roy should be on the floor. Not even if the other team went small. Well, Houston did not go small; it went big with two big guys on the court apparently. And JOB still yanked Roy.

Another thing JOB said in another preseason interview was that if a team went small at the five to put Roy in a defensive mismatch, he would take advantage of the mismatch Roy could make for that five on the other end by making sure Roy got the ball. From all reports it sounds like the Pacers went away from Roy during the second half so I guess JOB is still saying one thing while doing another.


Jim said to my face (well, technically just off to the side of me, and specifically to Gnome's face) that this was the year we didn't 'match down' to small ball, and this was the year that we made teams match up to us, and this was the year Roy finished games.

Took 7 games to be false.

1984
11-13-2010, 05:16 PM
I think you take a large risk when you fire a coach midseason. Personally, I don't understand why specific players with particular skills have been acquired for this "system." Clearly Roy, Danny and Darren belong in a traditional system. However, even if the right coach exists I'm not certain it benefits them team to make that change now when we are hovering around .500.

I personally think O'Brien is not as basketball savvy as some propose. If he were, he would stop this nonsense and play the Pacer's strengths. I also think his lack of knowledge is illustrated in his fork-tongue and banter. To me, he illustrates someone who is confused and desperate.

1984
11-13-2010, 05:18 PM
Bird does know it. The players have voiced their opposition, they just aren't doing it publicly because they are more professional than their Detroit counterparts.

Care to expound?

BringJackBack
11-14-2010, 12:46 AM
Bird does know it. The players have voiced their opposition, they just aren't doing it publicly because they are more professional than their Detroit counterparts.

Can you explain this some more please? Depending whether or not people will take your word on this, this can be some of the juiciest news in a while and we don't really have much to talk about right now.

I can't wait to see the tweets and quotes by the players and such when Jim is gone.. I also wonder how much better we will or will not be. I don't think we'll be worse at all, but I wonder how much significantly we'll be better.

Mackey_Rose
11-14-2010, 10:41 AM
Can you explain this some more please? Depending whether or not people will take your word on this, this can be some of the juiciest news in a while and we don't really have much to talk about right now.

I can't wait to see the tweets and quotes by the players and such when Jim is gone.. I also wonder how much better we will or will not be. I don't think we'll be worse at all, but I wonder how much significantly we'll be better.

I'm not going to at this point. If the players wanted it to be public, it would be.

Peck
11-14-2010, 01:48 PM
I'm not going to at this point. If the players wanted it to be public, it would be.

Well it actually is somewhat. Bird even made the comment last season that if the players wanted Jim gone they were going to be the one to be gone (paraphrasing of course). He wouldn't have made that comment without it being a question.

I had a conversation with Bob Kravitz last season on his call in show where he openly and on the public airways said that several players had been very open about their displeasure of Jim returning.

Roaming Gnome
11-14-2010, 01:56 PM
Regardless JOB did say at his Q&A with the fans that he was not going to pull Roy off the floor for defensive purposes or mismatches. In other words he wasn't going to let the other team dictate to him when Roy should be on the floor. Not even if the other team went small. Well, Houston did not go small; it went big with two big guys on the court apparently. And JOB still yanked Roy.

Another thing JOB said in another preseason interview was that if a team went small at the five to put Roy in a defensive mismatch, he would take advantage of the mismatch Roy could make for that five on the other end by making sure Roy got the ball. From all reports it sounds like the Pacers went away from Roy during the second half so I guess JOB is still saying one thing while doing another.


Jim said to my face (well, technically just off to the side of me, and specifically to Gnome's face) that this was the year we didn't 'match down' to small ball, and this was the year that we made teams match up to us, and this was the year Roy finished games.

Took 7 games to be false.


...and where was Roy at the end of the Cleveland game. Yeah, I know it was a win... But guess what, our 7' center is yet again cooling his heels during "winning time"!

vnzla81
11-14-2010, 02:37 PM
...and where was Roy at the end of the Cleveland game. Yeah, I know it was a win... But guess what, our 7' center is yet again cooling his heels during "winning time"!

Maybe they don't want him to get hurt? :whoknows:

Hicks
11-14-2010, 03:55 PM
Typically, the kind of guys who can burn Roy from the perimeter (like Brad Miller) are also the kind of guys who can't guard Roy so long as the big fella takes his time and makes the right moves.

I'd rather we let him figure this out in games, starting right now, than baby the issue by putting him on the bench. Attack.

I honestly don't give a **** how many games it costs us in November, as long as Roy learns to adapt to it later. This is another season that won't be remembered once it's over, just like the last few. But you know what? I think Roy will be here when that changes, and the more issues he can work through now, on the floor, the better.

But I'll never expect that consistently because once again we're obsessed with winning now as if that's fooling people in the fanbase.

Newsflash: We've been in "win now" mode for all of O'Brien's time here. Second bulletin: Attendance has mostly sucked anyway. The best argument that can be made is it kept it from being worse, which isn't saying much, and can't be proven, while it's damned obvious it hasn't raised attendance significantly.

And when I say I don't give a **** about the losses, when it involves our future/current core guys learning to deal with situations they currently struggle with, I mean it. I don't even care that they won last night because I'm so burned out on all of the little and not-so-little things I'm sick of with this team/coach/roster.

:soapbox:

Sookie
11-14-2010, 03:57 PM
Typically, the kind of guys who can burn Roy from the perimeter (like Brad Miller) are also the kind of guys who can't guard Roy so long as the big fella takes his time and makes the right moves.

I'd rather we let him figure this out in games, starting right now, than baby the issue by putting him on the bench. Attack.

I honestly don't give a **** how many games it costs us in November, as long as Roy learns to adapt to it later. This is another season that won't be remembered once it's over, just like the last few. But you know what? I think Roy will be here when that changes, and the more issues he can work through now, on the floor, the better.

But I'll never expect that consistently because once again we're obsessed with winning now as if that's fooling people in the fanbase.

Newsflash: We've been in "win now" mode for all of O'Brien's time here. Second bulletin: Attendance has mostly sucked anyway. The best argument that can be made is it kept it from being worse, which isn't saying much, and can't be proven, while it's damned obvious it hasn't raised attendance significantly.

:soapbox:

exactly,

Roy needs to learn how to deal with it, because Roy is our second best player. And even if we drop one game now (which we dropped it anyway) maybe he'll learn how to play it next time.

vnzla81
11-14-2010, 04:02 PM
Typically, the kind of guys who can burn Roy from the perimeter (like Brad Miller) are also the kind of guys who can't guard Roy so long as the big fella takes his time and makes the right moves.

I'd rather we let him figure this out in games, starting right now, than baby the issue by putting him on the bench. Attack.

I honestly don't give a **** how many games it costs us in November, as long as Roy learns to adapt to it later. This is another season that won't be remembered once it's over, just like the last few. But you know what? I think Roy will be here when that changes, and the more issues he can work through now, on the floor, the better.

But I'll never expect that consistently because once again we're obsessed with winning now as if that's fooling people in the fanbase.

Newsflash: We've been in "win now" mode for all of O'Brien's time here. Second bulletin: Attendance has mostly sucked anyway. The best argument that can be made is it kept it from being worse, which isn't saying much, and can't be proven, while it's damned obvious it hasn't raised attendance significantly.

And when I say I don't give a **** about the losses, when it involves our future/current core guys learning to deal with situations they currently struggle with, I mean it. I don't even care that they won last night because I'm so burned out on all of the little and not-so-little things I'm sick of with this team/coach/roster.

:soapbox:

I think we could say the same thing about the other guys too, reason why I'm not too happy about Posey, Ford and Dunleavy taking so many minutes from the young guys, it looks to me like the last three seasons all over again :mad:

Roaming Gnome
11-14-2010, 07:32 PM
Maybe they don't want him to get hurt? :whoknows:

I'd love to look at it that way... and be able to believe it!

When is Toronto on the schedule?