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Hicks
08-22-2004, 02:17 PM
MVP will be one of these players:

J.O'Neal
S.O'Neal
T.Duncan
K.Garnett
K.Bryant

Ultimate Frisbee
08-22-2004, 02:30 PM
I'm guessing Garnett again, but top 7 are

1.) Garnett
2.) Shaq
3.) Duncan
4.) Yao
5.) Kobe
6.) J.O
7.) Iverson
????

MSA2CF
08-22-2004, 02:55 PM
Ron Artest is a possibility.

MSA2CF
08-22-2004, 02:56 PM
Heck, all of the players in the NBA are possibilities, but I think Ron will be a "candidate."

Hicks
08-22-2004, 03:34 PM
Mark Jackson is not a possibility for 2005 MVP :p

Nor are about 420 other players lol.

RimBender
08-22-2004, 03:38 PM
Timothy or Jonathan Bender. :o:laugh::mad::p

SoupIsGood
08-22-2004, 03:48 PM
LeBron or JO would be cool

probably shaq or kobe tho

SoupIsGood
08-22-2004, 05:01 PM
i wish the MVP didn't have so much to do with stats. It seems kind of stupid to deem one person the mvp because he gets two more rebounds a game, or three more points. It should be based on leadership, consistency, and if the player comes up big when it matters. While this is still used to decide the MVP somewhat, i think it's based far to much on stats.

Burt_Reincarnated
08-22-2004, 05:34 PM
Besides the normal ESPN cut n paste mvp candidates I think maybe:
Yao, if they finally run the offense through him, they do have Tracy McGreedy though, it could work out well for them, I am dubious, if Tracy can be 2nd main man it will work good. Last year the Rockets were my favorite team to hate watching. Cause they had such great potential, but always did the wrong things. Francis and Mobley are incredible defenders, right up there with the best of them, they just weren't very smart offensively. For all the grief you guys give Ron, he is 50x smarter than those 2. I am still dubious about whether trading them for Tmac was the right idea. That's me though, defense first. I could go on about the rockets like I could the Pacers, but where the rockets failed, the pacers suceeded last year.

Maybe AK-47 (that has to be one of the worst nicks ever along with the matrix, that could be a new thread, the worst nicks ever) he does it all. Those are my favorite players.

Lebron is one of those type of do it all players, I think he is alot like Ron, but a better passer, but not as tenacious yet and not as advanced in iso play. Maybe he will be after getting schooled by the euros. Hopefully losing will make him stronger.

Ron Artest could have a massive year depending on how SJ works out, I wont tell you about his myriad of skills cause you all know them, or at least the real pacer fans do. If he gets an average of 22ppg 6rbs 7assists 3stls I can't see how they wouldnt consider him along with the likes of Kobe.

JO is kinda on the bubble with the cut n paste espn candidates, but barring injuries, with AL now gone and now that he has a bigger load to carry... this might be JO's year.

Rip could be right in the mix too now that he has got some recognition of his skills.

Espn cut n paste candidates

Tmac
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Garnett
AI?
JKidd? doubtful but maybe. He has clout like VinceCarter did 4 years ago.

thats all I can think of right now!

Joel
08-22-2004, 07:56 PM
I'm hoping Webber backs up the talk with 25/11/6 and brings home and championship and the MVP.

Joel
08-22-2004, 09:29 PM
I'm glad to see the rest of the league still thinks Chris doesn't want or make the big shot. That was the case earlier in his career, but certainly not now. I rememebr several instances in the last few years where Webber has taken and made the winning shot. ( A 3 in Boston two years ago immediately comes to mind). In fact, he took the shot to win it in the TWolves series this past year.. it was online, but it rimmed out.

I'd rather have Bibby and Peja taking a last shot, but Chris has proved to me that he's willing and capable.

SoupIsGood
08-22-2004, 09:34 PM
Yeah I wouldn't quite say Webber is clutch, but he's defintly not scared to take the shot.

I would put Webber's chances at an MVP at about the same as JO's.

Joel
08-22-2004, 09:36 PM
Yeah I wouldn't quite say Webber is clutch, but he's defintly not scared to take the shot.

I would put Webber's chances at an MVP at about the same as JO's.

That's a fair statement.

In truth, I expect Garnett, T-Mac, Duncan, and Kobe to be in the real running.

SoupIsGood
08-22-2004, 09:38 PM
yeah, JO would have to break into a completely different level of player to ever win MVP.

Joel
08-22-2004, 09:41 PM
While we are somewhat on the subject, how many big guys are actually clutch?

IMHO, you don't want your PF or C taking the last second shots. How many game winners has Shaq made? How many has Duncan made?

That's why you need guys on your roster who can create their own shot.

IMO, the pacers lack that guy. As far as championship contenders for next year go, here's the guys that I'd want the ball in their hands with 8 seconds left down by 2 points.

Detroit - Rip or Billups
Minny - Cassell
San Antonio - Parker or Manu
Houston - T-Mac
Sacramento - Bibby or Jackson
Indy - ?? (Sjax maybe, but to me that's not a great option. I'd say Reggie, but he can't create anymore.)

SoupIsGood
08-22-2004, 09:49 PM
Often times with big guys, they are clutch but not shooting wise. Sometimes offensive boards, things like that. Tim Duncan is the most clutch big man in the game right now, I think.

Well, I think we would try to set screens for reggie to get open, but If wouldn't do that, we don't really have a clear-cut go to guy in the clutch. I would probably give it to JO, maybe artest. SJax is intresting, but I haven't seen him play much. (Althoug he was very clutch on the spurs team)

I still remember that Sacramento game, where bibby beat us at the buzzer. That basket JO made before that was pretty nice. JO needs to make more of those.

DisplacedKnick
08-22-2004, 10:53 PM
Duncan's pretty clutch - remember the shot he hit just before Fisher hit his shot that I'm convinced was too late?

But a lot of grabbing and holding goes on inside at the end of games - it's mostly a creator. For the Pacers it's Ron Artest slashing, believe it or not. He's good at drawing fouls and he doesn't even notice bumping that throws a normal guy off.

Though Reggie hanging around at 25 feet still ain't bad.

Peck
08-23-2004, 02:13 AM
Often times with big guys, they are clutch but not shooting wise. Sometimes offensive boards, things like that. Tim Duncan is the most clutch big man in the game right now, I think.

Well, I think we would try to set screens for reggie to get open, but If wouldn't do that, we don't really have a clear-cut go to guy in the clutch. I would probably give it to JO, maybe artest. SJax is intresting, but I haven't seen him play much. (Althoug he was very clutch on the spurs team)



I agree. I remember one of the Davis boys (or maybe it was Foster) back in 2000 who set up Bests game winning three in the first round against the Bucks (awsome series, BTW).

I want my big guy to be willing to take that shot, but just important, IMO, is them willing to go crash the boards.

I think I have seen more games won off offensive rebounds that lead to second shots than I have seen first shot game winners.


That rebound was by Dale Davis. The man that George Karl said the Bucks had no answer for throughout that whole series.

Peck
08-23-2004, 02:15 AM
I'm surprised to see Artest's name in here. I assumed this thread was made for j.O'Neal. So now I'm wondering how many of you would build a team around Ron over Jermaine?

That said, Ron will never win an MVP. He isn't a leader, he's a loner, and that will always be the difference. And if JO ever wins an MVP as long as Duncan's in the league, then I will cry for the NBA. I'm sorry Pacer fans, but he's just not the player TD is.


Your assesment of Artest is 100% dead on accurate, IMO.

Your assesment of O'neal? I'm not sure about that. Jermaine certainly has shown that he can step up & be a leader. I just don't know that in our system he will ever put up the numbers that Duncan does.

DisplacedKnick
08-23-2004, 07:57 AM
Two things need to happen for JO to be named MVP. First is to get the numbers up from 20-10 to about 24-12. The second is to become better on D. That's the biggest area Duncan, KG and Kobe have an edge on him - Shaq did too about 5 years ago. JO's solid on D but those three are at the top of the league.

SoupIsGood
08-23-2004, 07:58 AM
I'm surprised to see Artest's name in here. I assumed this thread was made for j.O'Neal. So now I'm wondering how many of you would build a team around Ron over Jermaine?

That said, Ron will never win an MVP. He isn't a leader, he's a loner, and that will always be the difference. And if JO ever wins an MVP as long as Duncan's in the league, then I will cry for the NBA. I'm sorry Pacer fans, but he's just not the player TD is.

Kobe Bryant isn't much of a leader, and has been called a loner, yet he's in MVP talks. It's all about stats.

SoupIsGood
08-23-2004, 06:05 PM
BabbleOn, is your name meant to sound like babylon when you say it? Cuz every time is see that it reminds me of Babylon the city.