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View Full Version : A question about A.I.



Lord Helmet
08-19-2004, 06:38 PM
How do you see him ranked in the NBA (ALL-TIME TOP 100 PLAYERS)My friend and I got into a very heated discussion about it.He said he is Top 25 and I say Top 50 or maybe Top 25.He says A.I. takes the most hits in the league.(I think he does but back in the day Reg did and heck Reg still does)I'm not trying to down A.I. because I really like him and respect him as a player.Give me your feedback!

Hicks
08-19-2004, 10:08 PM
You're trying to put Iverson in the top 25 or 50 ALL TIME?? I wouldn't put him in either for all-time. This decade maybe.

MSA2CF
08-19-2004, 10:26 PM
I rank Iverson definitely top 100...Top 50 probably...Top 25 unlikely...Top 10 no...

Lord Helmet
08-19-2004, 10:34 PM
After looking back at my thread I would now say Top 25 or 50 this decade makes way more sense.

dipperdunk
08-20-2004, 12:29 AM
He has some great career accomplishments. He is around 5th all-time in ppg at 28ppg and I think he is about 3rd all-time in playoff average at about 31ppg.

He has multiple scoring titles and an MVP award. He is probably in the 6-10 range of all-time 76ers. I guess he would be top 75 all-time but there were a ton of great old timers I never saw play.

A couple of negatives against AI are his defense and his shooting % when comparing to other all-time players he is way behind in those two categories. Also he won't have a long career; despite the fact that he is just 29 years old his current play isn't anywhere near the level it was at 2-3 years ago because of wear and tear.

SkipperZ
08-20-2004, 12:32 AM
top 100....

but his numbers are inflated on a team that has historically refused to put a REAL second option on the court wiht him... (No g-dog and van horn do not count)

Plug him onto the Pacers and he scores 20 a game. Not his usual 30

ROCislandWarrior
08-20-2004, 02:09 AM
I would rather have Reggie in his prime...but that wasn't the question:devil:

Fool
08-20-2004, 08:54 AM
A couple of negatives against AI are his defense and his shooting % when comparing to other all-time players he is way behind in those two categories.

Are you kidding about his defense? Iverson has been at the top of the steals list since he entered the league. He averages more than 2 steals a game for his career. (His career steals/game are higher than anyone's steals/game this year alone.) Iverson has never been a problem on defense. Iverson will always be underated because of his terrible teams and his shooting percentage (Reggie hits 6% more of his shots by the way, sure more of his shots are threes but A.I. is only 6% less in fg% and you never hear anyone question Reggie's shooting but thats all anyone talks about with A.I. )

Its ridiculous to say you would take Reggie over A.I. They are totally different players. I would definately take A.I.'s defense, ballhandling, slashing ability, court vision (more than 5 assists a game for his career for the guy everyone loves to call a ball hog), over Reggie's. Also, I would argue that Iverson took a team on his back to the finals. Reggie's appearance came with a much better team. Iverson won't truely be appreciated till he retires.

This is a Pacer board, I assume I don't need to list Reggie's good qualities since you all know them by heart.

Hicks
08-20-2004, 08:57 AM
Fool, steals do necissarily = good defense. You could grab 5 steals a game and be a crappy man defender. I'm not saying Iverson's crappy at it, but you get my point. He's nothing special when it comes to man-to-man D. He's a good "thief" though (steals).

Fool
08-20-2004, 12:50 PM
Point taken, and in looking at my initial post it could be taken as a bit aggressive (which I don't meant to be), so if any take it that way please excuse me.

I'll agree that Iverson is definately not a dominating man-to-man guy. He simply doesn't have the size to dominate anyone on defense but I would say that he is at the very least a compitent or average defender and if you add his steals on to that I would say his defense is a plus rather than a null or minus.

Roy Munson
08-20-2004, 05:24 PM
Fool, steals do necissarily = good defense. You could grab 5 steals a game and be a crappy man defender. I'm not saying Iverson's crappy at it, but you get my point. He's nothing special when it comes to man-to-man D. He's a good "thief" though (steals).

Hicks, I'm glad you wrote that.

When I read Fool's initial comment about AI a blood vessel started to burst in my brain. I was getting pretty worked up ready start typing away until I scrolled down and saw that you had already addressed the issue.

dipperdunk
08-21-2004, 12:41 AM
Hi Fool, I never wrote that he was a bad defensive player. You're correct he is terrific at playing the passing lanes and at doubling the post for steals. He tends to gamble too much for steals and his perimeter D is just average to below average that is why Snow always guarded the best guard on the opposing team. He used to struggle in the post but that has somewhat been negated with the zone defense being allowed, I would say overall AI's defense is slightly above average. Before the zone was allowed it was below average because he would get isolated and posted; Mark Jackson destoyed us 2 straight post seasons against the Pacers by posting up Iverson.

In my post in this thread we were mainly discussing all-time players and if AI was in the top 50 and I wrote when comparing Iverson to other all-time greats his defense and shooting % would hurt him. Again, this isn't comparing him to Kevin Ollie etc.,, in this post we are comparing him with all-time greats like Jordan,Dumars,Frazier,Drexler,Reggie and whether or not he was in the top 50 I just mentioned that his D and shooting % weren't very good when comparing with those other all-time guards. I didn't think your intial post was aggressive. :)