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View Full Version : The Big Man Rotation... what do you like?



Anthem
10-15-2010, 09:55 PM
Well, with the loss of a premiere frontcourt player in Troy Murphy, lots of people were expecting the Pacers to have a gaping hole at the 4. That's not been how it's looked so far. As far as the bigs, we're actually pretty well stocked (even without playing a small lineup of Granger at the 4). On paper, here's the lineup:

Hibbert - Foster - Solo
McRoberts - Tyler - Magnum

Hibbert's the only automatic lock as a starter. Solo and Magnum are projects, but the other three guys could all make a case for themselves as the starter. Josh and Tyler both had fantastic games tonight. So who should start? I figured this thread would be a good place for that discussion.

I've liked Tyler more than I expected to, and I'm glad that Larry picked him. I still think, though, that his ideal position right now is first big off the bench. McRoberts and Hibbert complement each other well and seem to have good chemistry. Josh seems to be a good glue guy between Granger and Hibbert... he's got enough of an offensive game that other teams can't ignore him (sorry Foster) but he also doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective (sorry Tyler).

When Tyler has the ball in his hands, though, he can be very effective (especially against a team whose backup is starting and whose benchwarmer is playing backup). His scoring punch and energy seems ideal to come off the bench.

Foster's still got some in the tank, but at this point in his career I'd prefer to see him used situationally. Maybe 12-15 minutes a game, with the other 84 minutes going to Roy, Josh, and Tyler. Magnum and Solo can stay on the inactive list unless we have an injury.

Thoughts?

Sookie
10-15-2010, 10:01 PM
I think Josh should be an automatic Starter.

My rotation would be

McRoberts/Tyler/Magnum
Hibbert/McRoberts/Foster

It's kind of funny to say this. And I thought Josh had potential but looked a little lost last season. But I want Josh in the game as much as possible. And I think he's our second best Center.

judicata
10-15-2010, 10:02 PM
Given the information we have at this time, the rotation looks spot on. I wouldn't touch it for at least the first 20 games unless something wonky starts happening.

McKeyFan
10-15-2010, 10:10 PM
Yeah, I like the idea of McRoberts as starting 4 and as backup center.

ksuttonjr76
10-15-2010, 10:11 PM
Tyler/McRoberts/Magnum
Hibbert/Foster/Magnum

IMHO, Tyler is looking more and more like the player we expected when Indiana drafted him. Let's not forget his ability to get to the line.

BRushWithDeath
10-15-2010, 10:12 PM
I hope McRoberts is ready to play about 40 a night because Foster can't play. Solo is a much better option at this point. But Josh has to start at 4 and backup 5.

Infinite MAN_force
10-15-2010, 10:20 PM
Mcroberts/Tyler
Hibbert/Mcroberts

Jeff looks done, I have to concur with that sentiment. I hope we can find some spot minutes for Magnum Rolle so we don't run Josh into the ground. I prefer that over Solomon getting minutes.

The good news is, Hansbrough looks ready to be a big contributer as well. Lets pray nobody gets injured.

ChristianDudley
10-15-2010, 10:22 PM
These are how I'd rate our big men:

1. Hibbert
2. Hansbrough
3. McRoberts
4. Magnum Rolle
5. Jeff Foster
6. Solomon Jones
7. Lance Allred (I'll throw him a bone and put him in here for now)

And I'd make this our rotation:

Center: Hibbert/Hansbrough/Foster/Solo
Power Forward: Hansbrough/McRoberts/Rolle/Allred

We all know that Allred won't make the roster and Solo is on his way out most likely, but I'll leave him in the following discussion:

Hibbert is obviously our starting C, no doubts there. Personally I'd like to have Hansbrough start and have Josh and his crazy "hyper" energy come off the bench, but really he and Hansbrough could switch starting and coming off the bench whenever depending on matchups. I'm not sure if Rolle could handle centers, so for now I'd play him at PF. Foster and Solo get any few minutes left over if there are any...Foster is getting old as we all know, but he can still do a few of the little things, such as keeping the ball alive, that can help us out when he's on the court.

Infinite MAN_force
10-15-2010, 10:25 PM
These are how I'd rate our big men:

1. Hibbert
2. Hansbrough
3. McRoberts
4. Magnum Rolle
5. Jeff Foster
6. Solomon Jones
7. Lance Allred (I'll throw him a bone and put him in here for now)

And I'd make this our rotation:

Center: Hibbert/Hansbrough/Foster/Solo
Power Forward: Hansbrough/McRoberts/Rolle/Allred


You really think Hansbrough should backup the center spot? You must really want to see him fail.

McKeyFan
10-15-2010, 10:26 PM
Can't see Tyler as a 5.

Anthem
10-15-2010, 10:32 PM
I hear people saying that Tyler should start because they like him more than Josh as a player, but what I'm not hearing is how he fits with the starting unit.

To me, having Tyler off the bench is an absolutely perfect use of his skills.

pacer4ever
10-15-2010, 10:34 PM
ANYTHING BUT POSEY

pacer4ever
10-15-2010, 10:36 PM
I hear people saying that Tyler should start because they like him more than Josh as a player, but what I'm not hearing is how he fits with the starting unit.

To me, having Tyler off the bench is an absolutely perfect use of his skills.

yes i agree 1000% Josh is great with the starters. He is a great outlet passer and runs the court well.

DGPR
10-15-2010, 10:36 PM
I really wish we would have traded Foster 2 years ago.....

Dr. Awesome
10-15-2010, 10:37 PM
I hear people saying that Tyler should start because they like him more than Josh as a player, but what I'm not hearing is how he fits with the starting unit.

To me, having Tyler off the bench is an absolutely perfect use of his skills.

Agreed. I like Hansbrough more, but McRoberts fits with the starters and Hansbrough would be an awesome spark off the bench. Hansbrough can match any player in NBA history when it comes to passion - I doubt he'll see many bench players who care 1/10 as much as he does - that's an advantage in itself.

BlueNGold
10-15-2010, 10:37 PM
Tyler off the bench for a scoring punch. Definitely a good fit because he can dominate their bench and they may be forced to keep their starter in to contend with him. Let the dude wear'em out.

McBob does complement our starting unit much better and should be the starter going forward...or until we get a dominant 4.

BRushWithDeath
10-15-2010, 10:37 PM
I hear people saying that Tyler should start because they like him more than Josh as a player, but what I'm not hearing is how he fits with the starting unit.

To me, having Tyler off the bench is an absolutely perfect use of his skills.

Exactly. He can score against other teams' scrubs. Let him. It's the same as the Rush argument. Granger, Collison, and Hibbert are going to take most of the shots anyway. All Hansbrough can really do is score. Let's put him where that is needed. Off the bench.

travmil
10-15-2010, 10:40 PM
Tyler/McRoberts/Magnum
Hibbert/Foster/Magnum

IMHO, Tyler is looking more and more like the player we expected when Indiana drafted him. Let's not forget his ability to get to the line.

I think there was a big belief that Tyler got bailed out by refs a lot in college and people doubted that would translate to the NBA. That's starting to look like bunk. NBA refs have no reason to give him anything and he's still getting to the line.

Infinite MAN_force
10-15-2010, 10:44 PM
I think there was a big belief that Tyler got bailed out by refs a lot in college and people doubted that would translate to the NBA. That's starting to look like bunk. NBA refs have no reason to give him anything and he's still getting to the line.

His shot selection looks to have already improved quite a bit since last season, which was my major knock on him. He actually appears to have an effective back to the basket game.

His shot still looks like it gets off low to me, however... I think he is ideally suited as an off the bench player where he will have a better chance of dominating against other team's second unit bigs.

Naptown_Seth
10-15-2010, 10:47 PM
I hope McRoberts is ready to play about 40 a night because Foster can't play. Solo is a much better option at this point. But Josh has to start at 4 and backup 5.
This is my worry. The reason I was mad about Josh's PT the last 2 years was because I was thinking of NOW. You needed to be bringing up his conditioning and overall game back then so he'd be more ready for the every night heavy load it looks like they will need from him.

I'm no Tyler believer of course, but given the depth chart I'm forced to be counting on him to come through and prove me wrong as a solid 20 mpg backup.

And this doesn't even get into Roy's foul issues.



BTW, this isn't the intention of the original question, but one thing I like about Josh next to Roy is how aggressive Josh is with his OUTLET PASSING. This is why I wanted Love as a Pacer so much. A good outlet is as much a fastbreak creator as a steal.

At one point tonight Josh threw a one handed zip to Collison around midcourt before he'd even hit the floor off a rebound jump.

Of all the areas that Troy hurt the team, outlet passing from all his defensive boards had to be the biggest. I have a lot more confidence in the passing of both Roy and Josh. As bigs go, those 2 probably rank as some of the (potentially) best in the game. This is why I like to see the ball touch their hands in as many possessions as possible.



While Josh can swing to the 5 it's not a strong point for him. Ditto Tyler. I think if the team is forced to use either as a 5 for more than a couple of minutes they are going to have trouble. A big part of what broke down Foster was all the time moved over the 5. You could see Josh getting bent back last year when facing solid, strong 5s.

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2010, 10:49 PM
I think people get too caught up in draft position.

"Tyler was a lottery pick so he should start."

"McRoberts was a 2nd round pick, he's only good as an energy big off the bench."

The fact is McRoberts is a better player starting for this team. He makes the other 4 guys on the court better. He does everything.

Tyler doesn't do that. He's going to muscle his way into the paint and force up shots. Several of them are going to go in and he'll get his points, but he's not going to make anybody else better. That attitude makes him an ideal scoring punch off the bench, not as a high volume, low percentage shooter with the starters. He won't be able to rebound at the same rate as McRoberts nor he is nearly as good of a defender.

Leave the Duke/UNC biases in the ACC, this is the NBA.

pacer4ever
10-15-2010, 10:50 PM
This is my worry. The reason I was mad about Josh's PT the last 2 years was because I was thinking of NOW. You needed to be bringing up his conditioning and overall game back then so he'd be more ready for the every night heavy load it looks like they will need from him.

I'm no Tyler believer of course, but given the depth chart I'm forced to be counting on him to come through and prove me wrong as a solid 20 mpg backup.

And this doesn't even get into Roy's foul issues.



BTW, this isn't the intention of the original question, but one thing I like about Josh next to Roy is how aggressive Josh is with his OUTLET PASSING. This is why I wanted Love as a Pacer so much. A good outlet is as much a fastbreak creator as a steal.At one point tonight Josh threw a one handed zip to Collison around midcourt before he'd even hit the floor off a rebound jump.

Of all the areas that Troy hurt the team, outlet passing from all his defensive boards had to be the biggest. I have a lot more confidence in the passing of both Roy and Josh. As bigs go, those 2 probably rank as some of the (potentially) best in the game. This is why I like to see the ball touch their hands in as many possessions as possible.



While Josh can swing to the 5 it's not a strong point for him. Ditto Tyler. I think if the team is forced to use either as a 5 for more than a couple of minutes they are going to have trouble. A big part of what broke down Foster was all the time moved over the 5. You could see Josh getting bent back last year when facing solid, strong 5s.

That is why i love Jmac he is a beast at throwing a good outlet pass. That is why he should start and play almost all the time when DC is on the floor.

judicata
10-15-2010, 10:51 PM
I think people get too caught up in draft position.

"Tyler was a lottery pick so he should start."

"McRoberts was a 2nd round pick, he's only good as an energy big off the bench."

The fact is McRoberts is a better player starting for this team. He makes the other 4 guys on the court better. He does everything.

Tyler doesn't do that. He's going to muscle his way into the paint and force up shots. Several of them are going to go in and he'll get his points, but he's not going to make anybody else better. That attitude makes him an ideal scoring punch off the bench, not as a high volume, low percentage shooter with the starters. He won't be able to rebound at the same rate as McRoberts nor he is nearly as good of a defender.

Leave the Duke/UNC biases in the ACC, this is the NBA.

I don't know if I've EVER read those "quotes" before, much less in this thread.

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 10:53 PM
Tyler/McRoberts/Magnum
Hibbert/Foster/Magnum

IMHO, Tyler is looking more and more like the player we expected when Indiana drafted him. Let's not forget his ability to get to the line.

He can't rebound which is what we need most out of the 4 spot. That and he doesn't have the ability to make his teammates around him better, both things Josh can do. Wait until he goes up against an actual starter in this league and you'll understand.

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 10:57 PM
These are how I'd rate our big men:

1. Hibbert
2. Hansbrough
3. McRoberts
4. Magnum Rolle
5. Jeff Foster
6. Solomon Jones
7. Lance Allred (I'll throw him a bone and put him in here for now)

And I'd make this our rotation:

Center: Hibbert/Hansbrough/Foster/Solo
Power Forward: Hansbrough/McRoberts/Rolle/Allred

We all know that Allred won't make the roster and Solo is on his way out most likely, but I'll leave him in the following discussion:

Hibbert is obviously our starting C, no doubts there. Personally I'd like to have Hansbrough start and have Josh and his crazy "hyper" energy come off the bench, but really he and Hansbrough could switch starting and coming off the bench whenever depending on matchups. I'm not sure if Rolle could handle centers, so for now I'd play him at PF. Foster and Solo get any few minutes left over if there are any...Foster is getting old as we all know, but he can still do a few of the little things, such as keeping the ball alive, that can help us out when he's on the court.

Did I read this correctly? You would have Hansbrough as our backup center? He can hardly play PF, where do you see in his game he would be capable going up against ANY other starting center in this league? And Rolle we have hardly seen/heard anything. What's the deal with this guy getting so much love? We have hardly seen him play.

ChristianDudley
10-15-2010, 10:59 PM
You really think Hansbrough should backup the center spot? You must really want to see him fail.

He's the got mass and strength over McRoberts. Jeff Foster certainly couldn't do any better in more than 10 minutes a game than Hansbrough could do.

ChristianDudley
10-15-2010, 11:00 PM
Did I read this correctly? You would have Hansbrough as our backup center? He can hardly play PF, where do you see in his game he would be capable going up against ANY other starting center in this league? And Rolle we have hardly seen/heard anything. What's the deal with this guy getting so much love? We have hardly seen him play.

Then who do you suggest being the backup center right now??? Freaking McRoberts??? lmmfao

judicata
10-15-2010, 11:07 PM
I hear people saying that Tyler should start because they like him more than Josh as a player, but what I'm not hearing is how he fits with the starting unit.

To me, having Tyler off the bench is an absolutely perfect use of his skills.

I like the way things are right now, but here are a couple of reasons why he would match up well with Roy:

1) Tyler brings a more physical presence down low next to a skilled and long, but not muscular, Hibbert. Josh does a lot of things well, but he is not pushing folks around the paint.

2) Tyler's ability to draw fouls is best used on starters.

3) Roy is defending the rim pretty well, getting blocks. Josh's ability to do the same might be more valuable when Roy is sitting.

4) Roy and Tyler also had great chemistry in meaningless games in Summer League '09 (like Roy/Josh '10).

I do not find these things persuasive given where the team is right now. Quite frankly nobody knows what we have in either player since neither one has spent quality time against starters in meaningful games. We will be in a better position to comment after some real games get played.

beast23
10-15-2010, 11:09 PM
I hope McRoberts is ready to play about 40 a night because Foster can't play. Solo is a much better option at this point. But Josh has to start at 4 and backup 5.At this point in time, I would agree that McRoberts can play PF and C.

Like you, I have not yet been impressed with Foster, but I suppose he will have situations where his experience might prove useful defensively. I would NOT play Foster at PF, but would only use him off the bench at C.

It was easy to be impressed with Hansbrough tonight. From my perspective, a combination of Hibbert / McRoberts performs a little better than Hibbert / Hansbrough since a lot of Hansbrough's utility is down low.

That being said, I still think I might be tempted to start the pair of Hibbert / Hansbrough. My reason is that I would shorten the playing rotations in the front-court, using primarily three players (Hibbert, McRoberts, Hansbrough). Since McRoberts is capable of playing both PF and C, whereas Hansbrough is not, it only makes sense that McRoberts would be the first big off the bench.

We have 96 minutes available in the front-court. Without trading for a new player, I would play the three primary players at least 27 minutes each, limiting Foster to no more than 15 minutes.

In light of another thread, it probably surprises everyone that I propose playing two youngsters ahead of more experienced players, but my opinion is that both players are playing much better than any of the available experienced players. I think Rolle and SJones can get their opportunities in games where one or more of the three primary players get into foul trouble.

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 11:11 PM
Then who do you suggest being the backup center right now??? Freaking McRoberts??? lmmfao

Yes I do, with Foster in the mix. Hansbrough is already undersized as a 4 and who cares about how big his muscles are and how strong he is, he will still get pushed around going up against any starting 4, at center I would feel sorry for him. He is not tall enough, short arms, can't jump. Tyler isn't in Carolina anymore toto. This is the NBA.

judicata
10-15-2010, 11:15 PM
Yes I do, with Foster in the mix. Hansbrough is already undersized as a 4 and who cares about how big his muscles are and how strong he is, he will still get pushed around going up against any starting 4, at center I would feel sorry for him. He is not tall enough, short arms, can't jump. Tyler isn't in Carolina anymore toto. This is the NBA.

Ever heard of the NBA combine?

Day-V
10-15-2010, 11:18 PM
I think both McRoberts and Hansbrough are fantastic.

Dr. Awesome
10-15-2010, 11:19 PM
I'm no Tyler believer of course, but given the depth chart I'm forced to be counting on him to come through and prove me wrong

That's just it. I don't think you want Tyler to prove you wrong, I think you'd rather him fail to live up to expectations so you can say "I told you so." when it comes to your "scouting". I think you have rooted against Hansbrough from the start and even when he has good games you search for the negatives. That's not hoping he proves you wrong.

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 11:21 PM
Ever heard of the NBA combine?

Sure have. That's the only reason Tyler went so high in the draft. Before that his stock was late first round. Don't get your point...The combine is supposed to mean something to me? I just watch the games. Maybe Tyler will miss the rest of this year with a sinus infection.

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2010, 11:21 PM
I don't know if I've EVER read those "quotes" before, much less in this thread.

I'm obviously new to this forum, but if people are not basing this idea that Hansbrough is better than McRoberts on either their draft position or their college choice,I'd be surprised.

I only base my judgments of them on what I've seen from them in Pacers' uniforms.

And McRoberts has been the far more impressive player in my eyes.

pacer4ever
10-15-2010, 11:22 PM
Sure have. That's the only reason Tyler went so high in the draft. Before that his stock was late first round. Don't get your point...The combine is supposed to mean something to me? I just watch the games. Maybe Tyler will miss the rest of this year with a sinus infection.

come on vertigo sucks dont make fun of that

Dr. Awesome
10-15-2010, 11:23 PM
Yes I do, with Foster in the mix. Hansbrough is already undersized as a 4 and who cares about how big his muscles are and how strong he is, he will still get pushed around going up against any starting 4, at center I would feel sorry for him. He is not tall enough, short arms, can't jump. Tyler isn't in Carolina anymore toto. This is the NBA.

Hansbrough is undersized, which is part of the reason I wanted to go with Holiday, but to say he will get pushed around is absurd. I assume you have either never watched him
play or are hoping that no one else has with a comment like that.

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2010, 11:24 PM
That's just it. I don't think you want Tyler to prove you wrong, I think you'd rather him fail to live up to expectations so you can say "I told you so." when it comes to your "scouting". I think you have rooted against Hansbrough from the start and even when he has good games you search for the negatives. That's not hoping he proves you wrong.

I haven't been around long enough to know Naptown_Seth's history regarding Tyler, but I'm guessing I'm in the same boat as him. As a Pacer fan, I really want Tyler to succeed and surprise me. We need him to play serious minutes and do more than just hold his own.

However, I'm not going to just change from skeptical to a believer because he beat the crap out of Joe Alexander in a preseason game.

Dr. Awesome
10-15-2010, 11:24 PM
come on vertigo sucks dont make fun of that

Is it wrong that I'm not surprised he'd make a comment like that?

judicata
10-15-2010, 11:26 PM
Sure have. That's the only reason Tyler went so high in the draft. Before that his stock was late first round. Don't get your point...The combine is supposed to mean something to me? I just watch the games. Maybe Tyler will miss the rest of this year with a sinus infection.

It should mean something to you. To me, the combine means that when you say things like Tyler has short arms, is short for a NBA 4, and can't jump that you are spewing bull**** and actually have no bleeding clue what you are talking about. You might want to start prefacing what is clearly your (erroneous) opinion with "I think" before you get laid out with facts on a regular basis. On the other hand, you don't seem like you let facts get in the way all too often.

Dr. Awesome
10-15-2010, 11:27 PM
I haven't been around long enough to know Naptown_Seth's history regarding Tyler, but I'm guessing I'm in the same boat as him. As a Pacer fan, I really want Tyler to succeed and surprise me. We need him to play serious minutes and do more than just hold his own.

However, I'm not going to just change from skeptical to a believer because he beat the crap out of Joe Alexander in a preseason game.

That's fine man, everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. Seth has been rooting against Tyler though, it has always seemed as if he has wanted Tyler to fail...which is fine, like I said, everyone has a right to their opinion/beliefs, but if he's going to try and BS us by saying he wants Tyler to do well, then I will call him on it.

Infinite MAN_force
10-15-2010, 11:28 PM
I like the way things are right now, but here are a couple of reasons why he would match up well with Roy:

1) Tyler brings a more physical presence down low next to a skilled and long, but not muscular, Hibbert. Josh does a lot of things well, but he is not pushing folks around the paint.

I think you are making an argument against yourself here. Roy Hibbert and Tyler Hansbrough are both at their most effective in the low post. Mcroberts is most effective in the high post. Roy and Tyler would get in each others way offensively, and Roy would probably be forced to play in the high post a lot. Taking Roy out of the low post is the last thing we want to do.



2) Tyler's ability to draw fouls is best used on starters.


How do you figure? If anything I see the opposite, he will have an easier time drawing fouls against the other teams reserves.




3) Roy is defending the rim pretty well, getting blocks. Josh's ability to do the same might be more valuable when Roy is sitting.

Roy is somewhat slow footed and will benefit the most from having a quicker footed guy playing next to him, and that guy is Josh. We could use another shot blocker in the second unit of course, but it looks like that guy is going to be Josh anyway.



4) Roy and Tyler also had great chemistry in meaningless games in Summer League '09 (like Roy/Josh '10).

I do not find these things persuasive given where the team is right now. Quite frankly nobody knows what we have in either player since neither one has spent quality time against starters in meaningful games. We will be in a better position to comment after some real games get played.

Granger, Hibbert, and Collison are clearly going to be our top three options in the starting lineup. Putting Hansbrough in the starting lineup is only going to reduce the number of touches he gets... when scoring is far and away his strong suit. Its not the best situation for Tyler and its not the best situation for the Team. Josh's all around game just fits the needs of the starting lineup much better.

Day-V
10-15-2010, 11:28 PM
Maybe Tyler will miss the rest of this year with a sinus infection.

That was Tinsley's job.

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 11:30 PM
It should mean something to you. To me, the combine means that when you say things like Tyler has short arms, is short for a NBA 4, and can't jump that you are spewing bull**** and actually have no bleeding clue what you are talking about. You might want to start prefacing what is clearly your (erroneous) opinion with "I think" before you get laid out with facts on a regular basis. On the other hand, you don't seem like you let facts get in the way all too often.

Lay the facts than. What does the NBA combine have to do with real NBA games and how players perform on the court? You haven't told me $&^%

judicata
10-15-2010, 11:31 PM
How do you figure? If anything I see the opposite, he will have an easier time drawing fouls against the other teams reserves.


Fair points on the rest, but this one I certainly disagree: getting their starters out of the game can have a huge impact on the outcome.

judicata
10-15-2010, 11:35 PM
Lay the facts than. What does the NBA combine have to do with real NBA games and how players perform on the court? You haven't told me $&^%

6'8.25 without shoes
wingspan at 6'11.5

These are measurements that do not change when players get on the court.

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Hansbrough is undersized, which is part of the reason I wanted to go with Holiday, but to say he will get pushed around is absurd. I assume you have either never watched him
play or are hoping that no one else has with a comment like that.

Really? What kind of UNC fan are you? I saw him get pushed around by smaller even more unathletic Dave Neal in the Maryland UNC game a few years back. We see him up against backups and some on here are suggested starting him at the 4 which is bad enough, than go on to have him back up center. What would he do against Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Kendrick Perkins? Stop being so biased just cause its your boy and actually read what Im responding to.

judicata
10-15-2010, 11:40 PM
Stop being so biased just cause its your boy and actually read what Im responding to.

We see you trashing a guy who dropped 19 in as many minutes. He may not be an all-star but he deserves a lot more respect than you are giving him.

Do you really think you're saying anything we have not heard before? As for the Maryland game, we were told to leave the ACC out of this, otherwise the 4 times that he made Josh look like a total scrub might have come up by now.

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 11:42 PM
6'8.25 without shoes
wingspan at 6'11.5

These are measurements that do not change when players get on the court.

What is your point? He is undersized. Josh's wingspan is 7'1. Not sure how tall he is without shoes but that does not matter. Like I said, I watch the games and Tyler doesn't impress me for what his position is. He can score and he works out a lot and has big biceps....So what? He can't hang with McRoberts and that's why he will be on the bench and Josh will start.

BlueNGold
10-15-2010, 11:43 PM
I see what others see in McBob and I like it. Fantastic passing big man, great court awareness, athleticism and a great motor. Really not much to like...and I saw all of that stuff last year too...if only he had a chance.

But the dude is irrelevant. No future at all in the NBA.

pacer4ever
10-15-2010, 11:44 PM
6'8.25 without shoes
wingspan at 6'11.5

These are measurements that do not change when players get on the court.

LOL im pretty sure he where's shoes he isnt Mahatma Gandhi(love mahatma gandhi) lol

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2010, 11:44 PM
One theme I've noticed in my short time here is that the "McRoberts fanboys" want Tyler to succeed, while the "Hansbrough fanboys" want Josh to fail.

Except for Naptown_Seth if Dr. Awesome is correct, but I've seen him say several times already that he wants Hansbrough to succeed as well. I don't have knowledge of how genuine that is.

pacer4ever
10-15-2010, 11:45 PM
I see what others see in McBob and I like it. Fantastic passing big man, great court awareness, athleticism and a great motor. Really not much to like...and I saw all of that stuff last year too...if only he had a chance.

But the dude is irrelevant. No future at all in the NBA.

and he doent need plays ran for him he scores off fastbreaks an dunks which is really nice. LOVE HIS PASSING. he has a future in the NBA lol he is starting now lol.

Dr. Awesome
10-15-2010, 11:45 PM
Pull your head out of your *** man.

One person said he should play backup Center and everyone pretty much shot that down instantly. Have fun telling anyone who knows anything about basketball that Tyler got pushed around in college. Not that anyone really takes you seriously anyway, but if they did, that comment would certainly lose you any credibility you would have. Even last year NBA players were talking about how much of a psyical presence he was.

I love how I'm being biased by saying I'd rather see the Duke player start over Hansbrough. Or that I said I would have rather drafted Jrue Holiday over him? Seriously, do you think before you type?

EDIT: The only player I've ever seen give Tyler a hard time psyically was Trever Booker who's built like a tank.

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 11:47 PM
We see you trashing a guy who dropped 19 in as many minutes. He may not be an all-star but he deserves a lot more respect than you are giving him.

Do you really think you're saying anything we have not heard before? As for the Maryland game, we were told to leave the ACC out of this, otherwise the 4 times that he made Josh look like a total scrub might have come up by now.

I gave him love and even said he had a good game. All I said was can he do that against another teams starters and that I liked Josh's stat line better. Points are not even close to all that matters, some people don't understand that I guess. Josh was not very good in college, not as good or even close to where he was projected but he always had the skill, talent, and athleticism. Glad he's putting it all together finally.

judicata
10-15-2010, 11:47 PM
What is your point? He is undersized. Josh's wingspan is 7'1. Not sure how tall he is without shoes but that does not matter. Like I said, I watch the games and Tyler doesn't impress me for what his position is. He can score and he works out a lot and has big biceps....So what? He can't hang with McRoberts and that's why he will be on the bench and Josh will start.

Josh has a .5" standing reach over Tyler. Look, you are entitled to your opinion on quality, effectiveness, etc. But calling a guy who is less than 1" shorter than your guy "short" and saying a guy with a standing each is less than .5" your guy "short armed" is bull****. Tyler doesn't impress you, we got it. Don't go making up **** to support your opinion.

judicata
10-15-2010, 11:52 PM
One theme I've noticed in my short time here is that the "McRoberts fanboys" want Tyler to succeed, while the "Hansbrough fanboys" want Josh to fail.

Except for Naptown_Seth if Dr. Awesome is correct, but I've seen him say several times already that he wants Hansbrough to succeed as well. I don't have knowledge of how genuine that is.

I see a lot of people telling Joshies to pump the brakes because we still don't know what we have. I see a lot of Joshies undermine every accomplishment Tyler has ever had and give the kind of backhanded compliments that you'd expect from your in-laws, not the people who profess to follow your team.

Maybe we just see what we want to see in order to feel righteous and look sanctimonious . ;)

Hibbert
10-15-2010, 11:53 PM
Pull your head out of your *** man.

One person said he should play backup Center and everyone pretty much shot that down instantly. Have fun telling anyone who knows anything about basketball that Tyler got pushed around in college. Not that anyone really takes you seriously anyway, but if they did, that comment would certainly lose you any credibility you would have. Even last year NBA players were talking about how much of a psyical presence he was.

I love how I'm being biased by saying I'd rather see the Duke player start over Hansbrough. Or that I said I would have rather drafted Jrue Holiday over him? Seriously, do you think before you type?

EDIT: The only player I've ever seen give Tyler a hard time psyically was Trever Booker who's built like a tank.

Well I guess I'm just not as cool as you. You are better than me, your opinion overrides anyone else's. Get out of here with that bs. And yeah that's what you said now but is that how you really feel? I don't care what you or anyone else here thinks of my opinions on here, I'm not here to make friends.

pacer4ever
10-15-2010, 11:54 PM
Josh has a .5" standing reach over Tyler. Look, you are entitled to your opinion on quality, effectiveness, etc. But calling a guy who is less than 1" shorter than your guy "short" and saying a guy with a standing each is less than .5" your guy "short armed" is bull****. Tyler doesn't impress you, we got it. Don't go making up **** to support your opinion.

Both are decent players dont ***** over who do you think is better let them play and time will tell.

Day-V
10-15-2010, 11:57 PM
Like I said earlier, I think both guys are fantastic.

But, I do prefer McBob starting and Tyler coming off the bench. At this point in time, anyway. McBob and Roy seem to have a great chemistry and seem to compliment each other very well. Tyler seems to be a guy that has done very well at the end of quarters.

Hopefully he can blossom into a player similar to A.D. back in the day. Tremendous 6th man that could come off the bench and provide great toughness, and even help finish out a game if need be.

Dr. Awesome
10-15-2010, 11:59 PM
And yeah that's what you said now but is that how you really feel? I don't care what you or anyone else here thinks of my opinions on here, I'm not here to make friends.

So let me get this straight - it doesn't matter what I have said on here(I'm sure there is proof of this going back to last years draft if you want to look it up) because you assume I don't mean it?

What type of logic is that? "I know you said this, but you don't mean it, so I will argue as if you said the opposite!" Are you for serious? Yes, I'm busting out the "for serious".

judicata
10-16-2010, 12:00 AM
What type of logic is that? "I know you said this, but you don't mean it, so I will argue as if you said the opposite!" Are you for serious? Yes, I'm busting out the "for serious".

You ask him if he is serious, but I think you actually think that he is indeed serious, therefore I intend to argue that he is not serious.

He is not serious.

Hibbert
10-16-2010, 12:02 AM
You ask him if he is serious, but I think you actually think that he is indeed serious, therefore I intend to argue that he is not serious.

He is not serious.

You two would make a cute couple.

judicata
10-16-2010, 12:06 AM
You two would make a cute couple.

This isn't as insulting as you think it is: I'm not a homophobe. Don't push your hangups on me.

It is mildly insulting because I know that he wants to hang on to Rush, and I don't hold truck with that.

travmil
10-16-2010, 12:08 AM
I love how this thread was started to get away from the Josh vs. Tyler debate from teh game thread and then turned into an even bigger pissing contest....why can't we just support both guys?

Day-V
10-16-2010, 12:10 AM
I love how this thread was started to get away from the Josh vs. Tyler debate from teh game thread and then turned into an even bigger pissing contest....why can't we just support both guys?

I agree, travmil. Lemme ask you a quick question.

Do both McBob and Psycho T play for the Pacers?

judicata
10-16-2010, 12:11 AM
why can't we just support both guys?

Most of us do. We just don't support them equally, and it looks like a zero sum game to a lot of people even if it really isn't.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 12:11 AM
I love how this thread was started to get away from the Josh vs. Tyler debate from teh game thread and then turned into an even bigger pissing contest....why can't we just support both guys?

Yes they are Pacers how bout we like them both. (only 1 exception to this rule Troy last yr)

They both do very well at what they are told to do and are both work horses

Dr. Awesome
10-16-2010, 12:17 AM
It is mildly insulting because I know that he wants to hang on to Rush, and I don't hold truck with that.

Yea, I'm not sure we could make it past that...but, I'm willing to give it a shot if you are sugarpumpkin. :flirt:

dlewyus
10-16-2010, 12:24 AM
About the big man rotation. Back up center is the problem. It's going to be a huge problem as the season wears on, or if Hibbert gets hurt. What we have now cannot come close to cutting it. Solo is not good enough to be a rotation player. He's just end of the bench insurance at best. Foster doesn't appear to be able to go more than a few minutes without hurting himself now.

Lance George
10-16-2010, 12:28 AM
Let's see: Bruising, foul-drawing machine who hits the offensive glass vs. Above average passer and ball handler for his position? Give me the power forward whose strengths are what you need out of your power forward, not your shooting guard.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 12:30 AM
Let's see: Bruising, foul-drawing machine who hits the offensive glass vs. Above average passer and ball handler for his position? Give me the power forward whose strengths are what you need out of your power forward, not your shooting guard.


I think you're being very unfair towards Josh.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 12:31 AM
About the big man rotation. Back up center is the problem. It's going to be a huge problem as the season wears on, or if Hibbert gets hurt. What we have now cannot come close to cutting it. Solo is not good enough to be a rotation player. He's just end of the bench insurance at best. Foster doesn't appear to be able to go more than a few minutes without hurting himself now.

magnum has the size and length just not the weight

Hicks
10-16-2010, 01:20 AM
Well, with the loss of a premiere frontcourt player in Troy Murphy, lots of people were expecting the Pacers to have a gaping hole at the 4. That's not been how it's looked so far. As far as the bigs, we're actually pretty well stocked (even without playing a small lineup of Granger at the 4). On paper, here's the lineup:

Hibbert - Foster - Solo
McRoberts - Tyler - Magnum

Hibbert's the only automatic lock as a starter. Solo and Magnum are projects, but the other three guys could all make a case for themselves as the starter. Josh and Tyler both had fantastic games tonight. So who should start? I figured this thread would be a good place for that discussion.

I've liked Tyler more than I expected to, and I'm glad that Larry picked him. I still think, though, that his ideal position right now is first big off the bench. McRoberts and Hibbert complement each other well and seem to have good chemistry. Josh seems to be a good glue guy between Granger and Hibbert... he's got enough of an offensive game that other teams can't ignore him (sorry Foster) but he also doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective (sorry Tyler).

When Tyler has the ball in his hands, though, he can be very effective (especially against a team whose backup is starting and whose benchwarmer is playing backup). His scoring punch and energy seems ideal to come off the bench.

Foster's still got some in the tank, but at this point in his career I'd prefer to see him used situationally. Maybe 12-15 minutes a game, with the other 84 minutes going to Roy, Josh, and Tyler. Magnum and Solo can stay on the inactive list unless we have an injury.

Thoughts?

At this point, I think both Roy and Josh are locks to start. I'm getting comfortable with the idea of Tyler being our long-term backup PF. I think you get more out of him in that role, not less, so why not when you have a guy like Josh who is seemingly thriving in the starting role and he fits well with the other 4 starters.

Let Josh use his talents with the starters, and let Tyler beat up on backups (which he'll have an easier time doing than he would against NBA starters).

vnzla81
10-16-2010, 01:26 AM
I am happy for both guys, I don't get all the Tyler Vs Josh competition here, they both play for the Pacers and we should hope that both players become part of the future at the PF/C position.

Regarding who start and who comes of the bench I would think that it would depend of matchups, who is the other team Power Forward? is he an stretch four that Josh can guard better or an interior four that likes contact that Tyler could do better against.

If both guys succede the Tyler side and the Mcbob side should celebrate because this guys are going to be fun to watch from years to come.

Hicks
10-16-2010, 01:39 AM
As for all of the nonsense piling up in this thread between posters, you all need to fix your damned attitudes. This forum isn't here for you to treat each other like this. Express your opinions, but drop the attitudes with one another for God's sake.

pwee31
10-16-2010, 02:11 AM
Always a downside for too much testosterone in one place

imawhat
10-16-2010, 02:37 AM
Filling the gaping hole caused by Troy leaving? No, we're filling the gaping hole that Troy left by playing.

I'm glad that we're arguing about whether or not Tyler/Josh should be starting. This would've been a dream last year.

I think we get the most use out of our current rotation, save Posey (i.e. Josh/Roy with Tyler off the bench). That should be obvious by now.

Thoreau87
10-16-2010, 03:38 AM
Let's see: Bruising, foul-drawing machine who hits the offensive glass vs. Above average passer and ball handler for his position? Give me the power forward whose strengths are what you need out of your power forward, not your shooting guard.

Being a good passer and ball handler are essential qualities for every position in the NBA, not just guards. Did Josh not just seal the game for us tonight with a hustle play (crashing the glass and having active hands)? For the record I'm not a Josh or Tyler fan boy. To succeed in the NBA as a big you need a full skill set. Right now Josh has the more complete set.

CableKC
10-16-2010, 04:13 AM
Foster's still got some in the tank, but at this point in his career I'd prefer to see him used situationally. Maybe 12-15 minutes a game, with the other 84 minutes going to Roy, Josh, and Tyler. Magnum and Solo can stay on the inactive list unless we have an injury.

Thoughts?
I'm perfectly fine with what a primary PF/C rotation involving Hibbert/McBob/Hansbrough with a sprinkle of Granger at the backup PF spot and Foster as a backup behind Hibbert/McBob getting minimal minutes.

But I'm still waiting for JO'B to pull the rug out from under us and we start seeing a Hibbert/Granger/Foster/Posey/Dunleavy PF/C rotation :banghead:

Here's hoping we continue to see more of the former and less of the latter :buddies:

PaceBalls
10-16-2010, 04:26 AM
I'd like to see Hansbrough, Josh and Hibbert on the floor together once in a while. Some large ball. Those three should be our PF/C rotation with Jeff playing when he can. Alot of potential there.

thefeistyone
10-16-2010, 07:29 AM
How much do we know about either big man? We haven't seen much of Mcbob outside of garbage time, summer league, and preseason. Hans was spotty at best last year and we base a lot of our opinion of him off of what he did in college, which was impressive.

I would say Mcbob get's the tentative start based on being in the league longer, but it's pretty much up for grabs. He still has to earn the right to stay there. His new found love of shooting the 3 ball is somewhat disturbing.

I would be fine seeing Mcroberts get some time at the back up 5 if they wanted to run a little bit. There really aren't too many true centers in the league anymore so he could still match up pretty well with most of the centers in the league.

Chuck Chillout
10-16-2010, 07:40 AM
About the big man rotation. Back up center is the problem. It's going to be a huge problem as the season wears on, or if Hibbert gets hurt. What we have now cannot come close to cutting it. Solo is not good enough to be a rotation player. He's just end of the bench insurance at best. Foster doesn't appear to be able to go more than a few minutes without hurting himself now.

This is the weakest spot, not just of the rotation but of the team as a whole. Here's where the Jason Thompson love fits, or some reasonable NBA-quality facsimile.

ChristianDudley
10-16-2010, 08:32 AM
Yes I do, with Foster in the mix. Hansbrough is already undersized as a 4 and who cares about how big his muscles are and how strong he is, he will still get pushed around going up against any starting 4, at center I would feel sorry for him. He is not tall enough, short arms, can't jump. Tyler isn't in Carolina anymore toto. This is the NBA.

I will add these as my last comments in this thread:

1. Only trying to state that to backup Hibbert, I'd choose Hansbrough because between him and McBob (both deserve minutes over Foster imo), I see Hansbrough doing better against centers. He's a brute--have you seen how he rips away rebounds?? He's just better than Josh is at keeping rebounds alive under the basket.

2. Last season in a game (at home I do believe) vs. the Bucks, does anybody remember Hansbrough dropping freaking Andrew Bogut's @$$ in the post and dunking over him??? He can play center at times if he has to whether you can like it or not. It's just most definitely not his primary position.

Anthem
10-16-2010, 10:13 AM
Filling the gaping hole caused by Troy leaving? No, we're filling the gaping hole that Troy left by playing.
I don't believe in green font.

Infinite MAN_force
10-16-2010, 10:39 AM
I will add these as my last comments in this thread:

1. Only trying to state that to backup Hibbert, I'd choose Hansbrough because between him and McBob (both deserve minutes over Foster imo), I see Hansbrough doing better against centers. He's a brute--have you seen how he rips away rebounds?? He's just better than Josh is at keeping rebounds alive under the basket.

2. Last season in a game (at home I do believe) vs. the Bucks, does anybody remember Hansbrough dropping freaking Andrew Bogut's @$$ in the post and dunking over him??? He can play center at times if he has to whether you can like it or not. It's just most definitely not his primary position.

He's just too short to play center, is this even debateable? You are talking about a guy whos knock coming out of college was that he might be too short to play PF! 7 footers will shoot over him all day long, and he lacks the elite athleticism to make up for his lack of height.

Justin Tyme
10-16-2010, 10:41 AM
I think Josh should be an automatic Starter.

My rotation would be

McRoberts/Tyler/Magnum
Hibbert/McRoberts/Foster

It's kind of funny to say this. And I thought Josh had potential but looked a little lost last season. But I want Josh in the game as much as possible. And I think he's our second best Center.


Saying McBob is our 2nd best center isn't really saying much. B/U center is a real weakness that Bird needs to find a remedy for ASAP. Bird needs to find a X factor player that can play both C and PF immediately if not sooner.

vnzla81
10-16-2010, 10:50 AM
Saying McBob is our 2nd best center isn't really saying much. B/U center is a real weakness that Bird needs to find a remedy for ASAP. Bird needs to find a X factor player that can play both C and PF immediately if not sooner.

I'm not too worry about that, the PF and Center at one time last year were DJ/Dunleavy/Granger/Murphy/Solo/Hibbert, I'm pretty sure that any combination of Tyler/Josh and Roy could be better than any combination I just mentioned from last year (note that I'm not mentioning Foster or Posey)

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 11:08 AM
While Josh and Hibbert start, I still want Hansbrough to play 20- 25 MPG.

Josh is the better player obviously and he is turning into a very good rebounder, something that we never had and signs or flashes of in the past three seasons. He is amazing in the high post, he can drive the lane when people play him tight, and he just does a good job of getting the ball into the right people.

Tyler is a player who you can go to when your starters are out and get 10-11 pts depending on matchups. He does a very good job on the glass and ripping the ball away from people, and he likes to make people cry. He can bust out for 15-20 points on any given night, another word for inconsistent, but the energy he brings when the starters come out is amazing.

Tylers FG% has been pretty good this preseason and that 360 FG% seems as if it was his shin splints and vertigo bothering him as well as minute limits and no training camp/preseason.


He going to be our Antonio Davis!! W00t!!11!!

joeyd
10-16-2010, 11:46 AM
Not so much what I like or don't like, but I think stability is important. I hope that Walton taught Roy how to avoid picking up 2 fouls in his first two minutes. This happened frequently the last 2 seasons and disrupted the game plan and scheduled rotation somewhat. Of course, some of these were just calls that always go in favor of the veterans, but Roy just needs to avoid the silly fouls.

Justin Tyme
10-16-2010, 12:53 PM
I'm not too worry about that,


You might want to start worrying about it. If Hibbert gets injured, who on this team is going to be the starting Center that's a worthwhile replacement?
Solo? McBob? Rolle? Foster? Hans?

Then just remember someone has to be the injured b/u starters b/u!

Bird had best be scouring other teams rosters and trying to get a trade to solve this weakness ASAP. He needs to find a player that can be the b/u center as well as play PF.

The Pacers have too many wings and not enough "quality" BIGS.

Brad8888
10-16-2010, 01:45 PM
I'd like to see Hansbrough, Josh and Hibbert on the floor together once in a while. Some large ball. Those three should be our PF/C rotation with Jeff playing when he can. Alot of potential there.

Yes! What a concept!

Multiple rebounders, better overall defense for both the perimeter and interior, and a solid base for our perimeter players to work off of. Price, Granger, McRoberts, Hansbrough, Hibbert could do some work on both ends of the floor, and there would be elements of both a passing and penetrating offense, some 3's, rebounding on both ends, and the better interior defense would help Granger play better defensively as well because teams would be less likely to keep penetrating due to more likelihood of getting stopped once they get inside.

I would be tempted to have that lineup out there 15 minutes a night as long as Hibbert could stay out of foul trouble.