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pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 12:34 AM
Did you guys do the "Thanks for Darren" chant tonight?

A little, but i wanted to do it more but that is okay. I thoght we were better 2nite overall

Kuq_e_Zi91
10-16-2010, 12:36 AM
We did a "Thank You, New Orleans" chant. It didn't sound right. We should've gone with the "Thanks for Darren" chant instead.

Next time, for sure.

One thing that was really clear on the TV broadcast was the boos for Peja.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 12:39 AM
Man, I'm watching the game again on DVR (I know, lame.) and I still can't believe how good of a game Tyler had. He played great. I hope he keeps it up.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 12:53 AM
Man, I'm watching the game again on DVR (I know, lame.) and I still can't believe how good of a game Tyler had. He played great. I hope he keeps it up.

are u noticing how bad Posey is or am i just seeing things?

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 12:59 AM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/rewind_101015.html

video of tyler post game


Dont know if it has been posted Danny just a left "severely sprained ankle"

Day-V
10-16-2010, 01:10 AM
are u noticing how bad Posey is or am i just seeing things?

He played ok tonight, I thought.

Dahntay? Not as much.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 01:15 AM
He played ok tonight, I thought.

Dahntay? Not as much.

really in the stands he looks so slow and just standing by the 3 pt line. He hit a couple 3s but nothing 2 good.


Will they replay the game 2morrow on FSN ?? they did that a lot last season

Kemo
10-16-2010, 03:48 AM
Getting away from the Tyler talk.


Did anyone else notice that we played Chris Paul tonight and Darren still looked very good. One of the best/quickest defenders at the point and he still got 16 and 5. He basically held his own against the leagues top pg.




D. Collison

34:20 min.


Fgm-a 5-12
3pm-a 3-5
Ftm-a 3-3

Rebounds
Off 3
Def 1
Total 4
Assists 5
Steals 1
T/O 7

Points 16




C. Paul
29:21 min.


Fgm-a 4-8
3pm-a 0-0
Ftm-a 4-7

Rebounds
Off 1
Def 3
Total 4
Assists 8
Steals 2
T/O 3

Points 12

CableKC
10-16-2010, 04:04 AM
Josh just scores? Good lord, has Tyler-love come to this?

Remember the hard 2 handed entry pass to Roy who yanked it past his defender for the dunk? Remember when Josh smacked a rebound he had no chance at off to the corner which then allowed Collison to sneak back and steal it as NO recovered it on the baseline? Smart, timely switches and consist ant movement that shows court awareness.

There is a big reason the team looks better, the same thing I've been PO'd about for 2 years. If you play Roy and Josh together and let them develop 2 years ago, you'd have a really strong frontline at this point. Just getting them so much time together now is already having a huge impact.

Frankly I still don't see the greatness of Tyler. Spotting up for a slow 15 foot jumper or getting a friendly roll on a YMCA jump hook with below shoulder release point is not what wins NBA games.

Hustle I like, but he still looks out of synch and awkward much of the time he's out there.

I just don't see how anyone could compare their games right now, let alone in favor of Tyler. I'm hoping Tyler makes things work enough to be a solid bench PF contributor, that's where his game is at. I'd be worried if he had to be the starting PF right now. If he reaches that level it will mean he's made a ton of progress from where he is.

And yes, as I said in the draft discussions at the time, Joe Alexander is not worthy of a top 15 draft pick. Classic climber in the draft ranks after he stopped playing games and started working out.
I'm not going to disagree with you on McBob....in fact, I totally agree.

As for Hansbrough being "out of synch and awkward" for the time that he's been out there....I'm going to give him a little slack as the kids essentially played 2 weeks of preseason basketball and what amounted to a month of professional basketball more then a year ago. Add in the whole vertigo thing which probably affected his whole ability to do anything normal....much less anything basketball related for what seems to be an eternity....I'll hope that he can work his way into better game shape as time progresses so that he does start to synch up with the rest of the team.

I'm not saying that your assessment of Hansbrough may not be accurate....nor that he'll turn out to be the next Karl Malone...I'm just saying that I think that when it comes to any "awkwardness" and being out of synch.....he should be given the benefit of the doubt for a short period of time before you continue your obvious "love" for him ;).

B00sh
10-16-2010, 07:43 AM
I really hope we get some info on Danny soon.

Speed
10-16-2010, 07:45 AM
Things I noticed.

Danny driving to pass, that would be huge if he keeps doing it.

More Dunks in the first half than in 5 games last year, like that, not for the highlight only, it's a pretty high percentage shot.

D Jones was horrific, the worse 5 mins I've ever seen him play.

Posey, say it with me, so slow. Someone said it, it's like watching a YMCA league player, I wonder if his knees are okay, he 'runs' like someone with bad knees.

Paul George is really exceptional defensively, both individually and as a team defender.

Like to see Hansbrough be effective against guys who will be in the league at some point, but it was still fun to watch. He's a brute.

Pop Mensa...he should be on a roster somewhere, he's out of control a bunch, but he plays hard an physical. If he was guarding me, I'd try ot foul him out as quickly as possible. McBob was bordering on losing his cool against, I think.

There's more, but I was really impressed that Danny didn't have tunnel vision.

OakMoses
10-16-2010, 08:48 AM
I'm hoping Tyler makes things work enough to be a solid bench PF contributor, that's where his game is at. I'd be worried if he had to be the starting PF right now. If he reaches that level it will mean he's made a ton of progress from where he is.


Are you intentionally using the same level of hyperbole here that others are when they say that Josh can only score?

Unclebuck
10-16-2010, 08:53 AM
One thing I thought was good about the game last night was that after the Hornets made their huge run to start the second half from that point on it was a close hard fought (for a preseason game) battle the rest of the way. That is good, because most preseason games have wild swings back and forth or huge blowouts and it was good to have a game a little more like a regular season game.

Not much else I take away from the game.

Collsion seems like he is struggling ad yet you lok at his stats after the game and they are pretty good.

Tyler obviously looked good - I'll admit I love watching him play - yes I'm biased

I hope we don't get into a Tyler vs Josh argument this early in the season. We need them both and a lot from both of them as we are extremely thin at the 4 and 5 - still one of the worst groups in the whole NBA.

OakMoses
10-16-2010, 08:58 AM
I hope we don't get into a Tyler vs Josh argument this early in the season. We need them both and a lot from both of them as we are extremely thin at the 4 and 5 - still one of the worst groups in the whole NBA.

It's probably too late. I have a feeling it'll last all season.

It's nice to have 2 guys that I like to watch play who are both playing well.

Mackey_Rose
10-16-2010, 09:04 AM
Tyler obviously looked good - I'll admit I love watching him play - yes I'm biased

I hope we don't get into a Tyler vs Josh argument this early in the season. We need them both and a lot from both of them as we are extremely thin at the 4 and 5 - still one of the worst groups in the whole NBA.

From reading some of the comments on here, you must really not like Josh? If you don't mind me asking, why? I've always been impressed with how hard he plays and what he brings to the table, and so far this season he's been a borderline revelation.

The thing about the Tyler vs. Josh argument, is that there doesn't even seem any room for debate. There is absolutely a place for them both. Josh is the ideal complement to Roy and the starting unit. He gives them everything that group needs more of, and sets up the rest of the starters to be better as a whole. Tyler is the ideal piece off the bench. He's going to come in, work hard and get shots up. You need a scoring punch off the bench, and I think Tyler, AJ, and Dunleavy will be able to give that to us.

It's hard not to be excited about this season finally. It's been too long.

BlueNGold
10-16-2010, 09:05 AM
I think Collison's perimeter shooting is excellent and his ability to make plays is spectacular. Really, his ability to drive the lane may turn out to be his calling card.

We need to factor in that he is just a second year player and has now proven that he's no fluke. Very, very solid player. If he improves much further, we have a potential all-star PG. Seriously, what does he do wrong out there? Great at the line. Great handle. Very good shooter. Great play-maker. Quick as greased lightning. Perhaps a little small but that doesn't seem to affect him. He also seems to have the right attitude. I am extremely pleased with this acquisition.

BlueNGold
10-16-2010, 09:07 AM
We probably need two sticky threads. One for those who want to incessantly bash JOb. The other for the Josh v McBob debate. Neither may get resolved for months.

Justin Tyme
10-16-2010, 09:17 AM
[QUOTE=Justin Tyme;1076115]

Look at the 3 guys you just mentioned. Lol. I saw Josh get rebounds over Zach Randolph and Kevin Love. What's your point?


My point? I liked both McBob and Hans game, but it's OBVIOUS you missed Tyler's other accomplishments in the game. Try looking at the WHOLE game that Tyler played. Try giving Tyler his due when he earns it, and he did this game.

I'm not a fan boy of either McBob or Hans like some on this board. I see them as the "best" of what the Pacers presently have, and that's not saying that much at the present time. I enjoyed watching both play this game, but I'm still advocating Bird trade for starting PF that can play some b/u center. Then we'll see which one wins the "b/u PF" job.

McKeyFan
10-16-2010, 09:26 AM
Here's another way to look at it:

Our "weakest" position, the 4 spot, did the following last night:

- Led the team in scoring

- Led the team in rebounding

- Made the winning play at the end.

Justin Tyme
10-16-2010, 09:32 AM
Foster needs to call it a career.


I concentrated on trying to watch Foster, and what I saw was Jeff just doesn't have it. I understand he missed 66 games last year, and he's trying to get his game back BUT his game just looks terrible. No other way to describe it. I see his body and age has caught up with what he use to be able to do.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-16-2010, 09:43 AM
Good game for the Pacers last night but we STILL have the same issues:

THE GOOD:

(1). McBob is for real. He's a younger, more athletic version of Jeff Foster. Man, that boy makes me proud and mad at LB/JOB for NOT developing him sooner. You can SEE his extreme determination and competitiveness. His long length and athleticism bothers opposing Post players. If he could develop some Post moves like Tyler, he'd be a poor white-man's Amare Stoudamare with his quick feet and explosiveness near the basket.

(2). Darren Collison. The real deal. Enough said. He'll be here for 10yrs.

(3). Paul George. He's getting better with each game. His shot is falling and he's getting closer and closer to blocking shots when providing help defense. He's the complete package.

THE BAD:

(1) JOB doesn't know his personnel very well and has lousy substitution patterns. Even when Tyler had it going, JOB didn't ensure the TEAM got him the ball until New Orleans PROVED they could stop him. He never should have substituted Dahntay who displayed lousy passing fundamentals for as long as he's been in the league.

(2) HIbbert will NEVER be the 'man' in the middle for our team. He's a very decent backup Center but he has NO POST game whatsoever (no matter what JOB and others say). He's a 'chucker' in the worst way. We lose so many offensive possessions each game because he's determined to 'chuck' it when it's obvious that he's too WEAK to back his man down. When Hibbert has the ball, opposing coaches are playing him 'straight up' with their Center while the other defensive players tightly cover their own man. This forces Hibbert (the worst offensive player on the court) to be the shooter and everyone knows that Hibbert will just chuck it at the rim for a LOW PERCENTAGE shot. How easy it IS to defense the Pacers and force their hand due to plain stupidity by JOB. LB needs to draft another CENTER who's athletic enough to get his own shot (like Tyler does with simple Up & Under or head or ball fakes moves) in the Post.

(3). Jeff Foster has NOTHING left in the tank and is physically finished. He shouldn't even be in the game. He has NO explosiveness left in his aging legs. He's needs to be 'bought-out' for a job well done these past 10yrs and let go. Opposing younger players run circles around him now.

(4). Dahntay needs to be bought out or traded. He displayed extreme poor basketball fundamentals for player with tenure in this league. He's obviously just getting paid for looking 'athletic' because he's not serious about EVER starting in this league. Sorry, LB but he's a BUST!!!

(5). Dunleavy is a ball-hog and thinks too highly of himself. It almost seems that he thinks he's MJ out there. He actually doesn't seem to realize that he's Mike Dunleavy with HEART but very very limited athletic tools. Even when Tyler had it going, he was calling for the ball even after he had missed 3 jumpers in a row. He should be trying to help setup his teammates but he wants THEM to set him up as the go-to guy. Couldn't believe his selfish play out there. I was cussing his sorry butt the entire 3rd and 4th quarters.

Overall: JOB needs to coach the team to recognize MISMATCHES during games and to keep going to those MISMATCHES until they react to it with double or triple teams. Once the opposing Teams react to it, JOB should have an athletic Pacer player cut hard to the basket for the easy dunk or pass off to another Pacer player for the dunk or open jumper. JOB can not FORCE plays to Hibbert. JOB needs to coach Hibbert to recognize when a 290lb man is leaning on him and pass out of it. Hibbert should find other ways to score like McBob does, i.e. put-backs from offensive rebounds, deflections, steals, blocks, whatever. JOB also needs to coach Dunleavy to quit being a freakin ball-hog and to recognize that he is NOT MJ reincarnated. And, too bad we didn't SEE more of Lance Stephenson at some point in the game at the SG spot. He's a better player at age 20 (passer and shooter) than Dahtntay and Dunleavy almost cost us the game with tired legs and an errant jump shot from playing too many minutes.

McKeyFan
10-16-2010, 09:50 AM
Hibbert had a bad shooting night. I wouldn't make sweeping statements based on last night's performance, which was still good despite the bad shooting.

Dunleavy is the opposite of selfish. He looks to pass first, and when he shoots lately, he usually makes it.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 09:51 AM
I can't wait for when the lights come on in 2 weeks so we can watch McRoberts get owned when it counts and we can end this silly fascination with him and start with the JOB screwed him portion of the program.

dohman
10-16-2010, 09:55 AM
Good game for the Pacers last night but we STILL have the same issues:



(2) HIbbert will NEVER be the 'man' in the middle for our team. He's a very decent backup Center but he has NO POST game whatsoever (no matter what JOB and others say). He's a 'chucker' in the worst way. We lose so many offensive possessions each game because he's determined to 'chuck' it when it's obvious that he's too WEAK to back his man down. When Hibbert has the ball, opposing coaches are playing him 'straight up' with their Center while the other defensive players tightly cover their own man. This forces Hibbert (the worst offensive player on the court) to be the shooter and everyone knows that Hibbert will just chuck it at the rim for a LOW PERCENTAGE shot. How easy it IS to defense the Pacers and force their hand due to plain stupidity by JOB. LB needs to draft another CENTER who's athletic enough to get his own shot (like Tyler does with simple Up & Under or head or ball fakes moves) in the Post.

(5). Dunleavy is a ball-hog and thinks too highly of himself. It almost seems that he thinks he's MJ out there. He actually doesn't seem to realize that he's Mike Dunleavy with HEART but very very limited athletic tools. Even when Tyler had it going, he was calling for the ball even after he had missed 3 jumpers in a row. He should be trying to help setup his teammates but he wants THEM to set him up as the go-to guy. Couldn't believe his selfish play out there. I was cussing his sorry butt the entire 3rd and 4th quarters.
[/B]

I hope your joking or just looking to get people fired up. Hibbert has been amazing offensively defensively and on the board. He took his game from a C level to a A level. Even shooting poorly like he did tonight he still had 15 points against okafur who is no slouch. They had to foul him to guard him hense the 10 free throw attempts. The big fella is getting his confidence out there and I wouldnt mind if he took another 5 shots a game if it is going to help him during the season.

Also the only reason tyler went on his scoring drive is because of hibbert. Hibbert was the man feeding him the ball and taking his time setting him up and getting it to him. Watch the stretch. He basically tells collinson I got this and continues to feed him. It was great.

__________________________________________________ _______________
Your comments about Dun are so far off base you should probably be escorted away from this post. Dun worked his *** off out there and shot 50 percent from the field. Any coach in the NBA would want that player to be a ball hog with that type of shooting.

dohman
10-16-2010, 09:55 AM
I can't wait for when the lights come on in 2 weeks so we can watch McRoberts get owned when it counts and we can end this silly fascination with him and start with the JOB screwed him portion of the program.


Wow you seem like a real pacers fan to me.

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 09:56 AM
I can't wait for when the lights come on in 2 weeks so we can watch McRoberts get owned when it counts and we can end this silly fascination with him and start with the JOB screwed him portion of the program.

280+ baseless McRoberts bashing posts. Bravo for the dedication to your ridiculous cause.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-16-2010, 09:57 AM
Hibbert had a bad shooting night. I wouldn't make sweeping statements based on last night's performance, which was still good despite the bad shooting.

Dunleavy is the opposite of selfish. He looks to pass first, and when he shoots lately, he usually makes it.

I disagree. I've seen enough of Hibbert the past few years and this preseason to know he's NOT athletic enough to get his own shot inside if pressed by a decent Center. He's a chucker and has been all preseason. I would rather see him 'square up' and take the jump shot instead of just chucking the damn ball. Better yet, pass the ball and reset the offense. And, Dunleavy is Dunleavy. He'll always be just a decent player in my book. He plays within the offense early in games but NOT when it's tight. Also, when Danny's out of the game, he wants to be the go-to guy and it doesn't matter whether his legs are dead and his shot isn't falling. He doesn't like deferring to Collison, George, or anyone else. Yes, he'll make an open 'uncontested' jump shot 42% (or slighter higher) of the time but how many does he MISS when his shot is contested? He's not better than a sixth man.

BlueNGold
10-16-2010, 10:00 AM
Hibbert had a bad shooting night. I wouldn't make sweeping statements based on last night's performance, which was still good despite the bad shooting.

Dunleavy is the opposite of selfish. He looks to pass first, and when he shoots lately, he usually makes it.

Agreed. Hibbert is the future at the C position...and offense is his specialty. I'm not sure what the poster is thinking.

BTW, Hibbert did look bad last night overall (mainly because of the matchup)...but he still scored something like 15 points. That by itself tells me he's going to have a great year. He's still getting better folks and as he matures he's going to be a complete stud.

Edit: Also, he would have fouled out of this game last year...and fell down a lot more attempting to contend in the paint. This was a tough game for him because their C is quite physical. Just wait until he further develops and learns to compensate against these types of players.

pianoman
10-16-2010, 10:00 AM
A couple things from last night:

Even if Ford was healthy, I would've benched him for one play in particular:

Early when he first came in, he lost the ball and fell on the ground. The Hornets had a 4 on 1, and TJ just watched from the ground.He had just crossed half court by the time they scored. I was very unimpressed with his game last night.

I wouldn't worry about Roy's performance. He just needs time to adjust, and that is what preseason is for. He'll be fine. He's our STARTING center, and a darn good one at that.

Mike Dunleavy was great out there. I really want to see him stay next year. He's a glue player that every team needs.

Paul George was impressive again tonight, and it showed on both ends of the floor. I don't think he'll be a DG clone. He's much more craftier, and much more athletic than Danny. I can see why that scout said he'd be the best player out of this draft in 5 years.

DC- He hustles, he plays with passion, and he is lightning quick. I just hope he can put up more dimes this season.

Defense- I thought it was a good defensive effort the 1st, 2nd, and 4th quarters. We are a very scrappy team!!!!!

I think we'll be better than people expect.

McKeyFan
10-16-2010, 10:02 AM
I disagree. I've seen enough of Hibbert the past few years and this preseason to know he's NOT athletic enough to get his own shot inside if pressed by a decent Center. He's a chucker and has been all preseason. I would rather see him 'square up' and take the jump shot instead of just chucking the damn ball. Better yet, pass the ball and reset the offense. And, Dunleavy is Dunleavy. He'll always be just a decent player in my book. He plays within the offense early in games but NOT when it's tight. Also, when Danny's out of the game, he wants to be the go-to guy and it doesn't matter whether his legs are dead and his shot isn't falling. He doesn't like deferring to Collison, George, or anyone else. Yes, he'll make an open 'uncontested' jump shot 42% (or slighter higher) of the time but how many does he MISS when his shot is contested? He's not better than a sixth man.
On Roy, I get what you mean by "chucking." With Roy, if his body is solid and balanced he usually makes the shot. Often it isn't, which looks like chucking. But all in all, he is making over 50 percent, I think, so it works out. And it will only get better.

On Dun, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I see the exact opposite: a smart, unselfish, great veteran presence on the offensive side of the floor.

dohman
10-16-2010, 10:04 AM
A couple things from last night:

Even if Ford was healthy, I would've benched him for one play in particular:

Early when he first came in, he lost the ball and fell on the ground. The Hornets had a 4 on 1, and TJ just watched from the ground.He had just crossed half court by the time they scored. I was very unimpressed with his game last night.

I wouldn't worry about Roy's performance. He just needs time to adjust, and that is what preseason is for. He'll be fine. He's our STARTING center, and a darn good one at that.

Mike Dunleavy was great out there. I really want to see him stay next year. He's a glue player that every team needs.

Paul George was impressive again tonight, and it showed on both ends of the floor. I don't think he'll be a DG clone. He's much more craftier, and much more athletic than Danny. I can see why that scout said he'd be the best player out of this draft in 5 years.

DC- He hustles, he plays with passion, and he is lightning quick. I just hope he can put up more dimes this season.

Defense- I thought it was a good defensive effort the 1st, 2nd, and 4th quarters. We are a very scrappy team!!!!!

I think we'll be better than people expect.



I know what play you are talking about with TJ. To his defense on that one play he was LAID OUT. He was running FULL speed up the court and hit that pick. He had no clue it was there. Thats like running into a wall full speed not knowing its going to hurt.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:06 AM
280+ baseless McRoberts bashing posts. Bravo for the dedication to your ridiculous cause.

What has josh done in his career? People are on his sack here like mad and he's done nothing will be fun to watch he get owned so we can start with how everyone else was to blame.

McKeyFan
10-16-2010, 10:07 AM
What has josh done in his career? People are on his sack here like mad and he's done nothing will be fun to watch he get owned so we can start with how everyone else was to blame.

Ladies and gentlemen, please do not feed the animals.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:10 AM
Wow you seem like a real pacers fan to me.

The Pacers will be in a better place once Josh gets exposed so everyone can move on from the local hero and his 3.3 and 2.5 over 3 years in the league working in garbage time and we can find some real players.

Trophy
10-16-2010, 10:11 AM
Now that game really made me excited for the season.

EDIT: Praying that Danny will be okay.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:12 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, please do not feed the animals.

You can feed me crow if he does good when it counts but will you admit the hype was overblown when he fails?

Mackey_Rose
10-16-2010, 10:16 AM
What has josh done in his career? People are on his sack here like mad and he's done nothing will be fun to watch he get owned so we can start with how everyone else was to blame.

He has been extremely effective in every chance he has gotten. Your attitude is puzzling to say the least. Why do you want him to fail so badly? That's gonna be really good for this team.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-16-2010, 10:20 AM
I hope your joking or just looking to get people fired up. Hibbert has been amazing offensively defensively and on the board. He took his game from a C level to a A level. Even shooting poorly like he did tonight he still had 15 points against okafur who is no slouch. They had to foul him to guard him hense the 10 free throw attempts. The big fella is getting his confidence out there and I wouldnt mind if he took another 5 shots a game if it is going to help him during the season.

Also the only reason tyler went on his scoring drive is because of hibbert. Hibbert was the man feeding him the ball and taking his time setting him up and getting it to him. Watch the stretch. He basically tells collinson I got this and continues to feed him. It was great.

__________________________________________________ _______________
Your comments about Dun are so far off base you should probably be escorted away from this post. Dun worked his *** off out there and shot 50 percent from the field. Any coach in the NBA would want that player to be a ball hog with that type of shooting.

I'm glad that you have some man-love for Dunleavy. I don't have much for the dude. He IS a glue player as other posters have mentioned but he's still a ball-hog who 'wastes' too many possessions in key parts of many games.

If it wasn't for Tyler crazy inside scoring, we'd be having a different discussion this morning. The Hornets had it ALL figured out. In the 3d quarter, they Up'd the tempo and played lights-out defense liked Orlando (and other athletic teams will do) did to us and our Team had NO answer for it but to mentally give-up. Tyler saved our 'bacon' because New Orleans' coach stayed too long with Joe Alexander and the other European dude. Once they brought in an athletic player, JOB and the team QUIT going to Tyler but, by then, our Team had regained the lead and had regained it's composure.

We probably still would've lost last night except Chris Paul was NOT in the game from the middle of the 4th Qtr for whatever reason. You could tell that with CP in the game, the Hornets could score pretty easily when CP broke down our interior defense and passed off for the easy dunk of short jump shot.

All that I'm saying is that when the games go LIVE, JOB had better worked on figuring out a rotation of players that have GAME. He also needs to have Tyler TEACH Hibbert some of his moves to score inside. With his size and length, it's unbelievable that Hibbert can't score easily inside. Same with Dun-Dun without Danny on the court. He needs to know there are other Pacer players on the court that are more athletic than he is. I think, however, Collison will figure it out and NOT give Dunleavy the rock with the shot clock winding down. My two cents.

Justin Tyme
10-16-2010, 10:21 AM
This was a tough game for him because their C is quite physical. Just wait until he further develops and learns to compensate against these types of players.


What no one has said is that Gray fouled out trying to guard Hibbert.

Hibbert was pushing too much with his shooting, it was frustrating at times, but Hibbert sure isn't a B/U center as has been stated. My guess is that Hibbert wants to be a go to guy, which I can't fault, and chose to shoot some poor shots. It's the 5th pre-season game folks.

Oh BTW, I didn't see any negative comments about Hibbert's game against the T-Wolves from said forth poster who just critized Hibbert.

Gamble1
10-16-2010, 10:23 AM
(2) HIbbert will NEVER be the 'man' in the middle for our team. He's a very decent backup Center but he has NO POST game whatsoever (no matter what JOB and others say). He's a 'chucker' in the worst way. We lose so many offensive possessions each game because he's determined to 'chuck' it when it's obvious that he's too WEAK to back his man down. When Hibbert has the ball, opposing coaches are playing him 'straight up' with their Center while the other defensive players tightly cover their own man. This forces Hibbert (the worst offensive player on the court) to be the shooter and everyone knows that Hibbert will just chuck it at the rim for a LOW PERCENTAGE shot. How easy it IS to defense the Pacers and force their hand due to plain stupidity by JOB. LB needs to draft another CENTER who's athletic enough to get his own shot (like Tyler does with simple Up & Under or head or ball fakes moves) in the Post.

I love comments like this.. We need a athletic center who can get his own shot....LOL.

Seriously the only reason why I am commenting on this is just to say this... GET USE TO IT BUD. Hibbert is going to be our center for a long time.

Bill Waltons opinion on Hibbert vs TooBigNdapaint's.. Ya I think I know who I am going with on this one.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:23 AM
He has been extremely effective in every chance he has gotten. Your attitude is puzzling to say the least. Why do you want him to fail so badly? That's gonna be really good for this team.

Extremely effective at finishing blowouts with over 3/4 of his points last year coming in games with spreads greater than 10 points. He isn't very good and its disgusting how much unwanted hype he gets here.

He's going to get his shot and its going to get ugly and the hype can end and the franchise can move on. So get you JOB excuses ready beacuse its almost showtime.

WhackoJacko
10-16-2010, 10:28 AM
Wow you seem like a real pacers fan to me.

He is as much a fan as all of those Dun and Troy bashers.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-16-2010, 10:35 AM
I love comments like this.. We need a athletic center who can get his own shot....LOL.

Seriously the only reason why I am commenting on this is just to say this... GET USE TO IT BUD. Hibbert is going to be our center for a long time.

Bill Waltons opinion on Hibbert vs TooBigNdapaint's.. Ya I think I know who I am going with on this one.

I actually agree that Hibbert will probably be here 10yrs (unless we change GMs and President of Basketball Opns) and I also enjoyed that Bill Walton helped further develop Hibbert this past summer.

That being said, LB should STILL look for an athletic Center to draft and to compete against Roy for the starting Center position. Again, if Roy plays within his limitations (as I said earlier), he can still score pts, get rebounds, get blocks, etc. but he will never be an elite Center in my opinion. He will always be 'dominated' by the elite Centers in this League (and, no Minnesota does NOT have an elite Center which explains Roy's great game). If all you posters enjoy watching an AVERAGE team, more power to you. I'd rather SEE an athletic team and more of Brandon (when he's back from suspension), Lance and Magnum. I want Dun-Dun's minutes 'limited' to where his legs are fresh and he's more apt the hit the big shot at key points in games (as he did in his previous ONE big year).

Gamble1
10-16-2010, 10:48 AM
I actually agree that Hibbert will probably be here 10yrs (unless we change GMs and President of Basketball Opns) and I also enjoyed that Bill Walton helped further develop Hibbert this past summer.

That being said, LB should STILL look for an athletic Center to draft and to compete against Roy for the starting Center position. Again, if Roy plays within his limitations (as I said earlier), he can still score pts, get rebounds, get blocks, etc. but he will never be an elite Center in my opinion. He will always be 'dominated' by the elite Centers in this League (and, no Minnesota does NOT have an elite Center which explains Roy's great game). If all you posters enjoy watching an AVERAGE team, more power to you. I'd rather SEE an athletic team and more of Brandon (when he's back from suspension), Lance and Magnum. I want Dun-Dun's minutes 'limited' to where his legs are fresh and he's more apt the hit the big shot at key points in games (as he did in his previous ONE big year).
I totally agree that if you have a chance to upgrade a position on this team that Bird should do it in a heart beat.

I also agree that Hibbert is less likely to become an elite center in the NBA when compared to 7 foot athletic guys who can move their man under the basket.

What I have a problem with is when I go to a game last year and see Hibbert dominate in a game against an elite center ie Howard. I mean 26 pnts, 8 rds, and 4 blocks against Orlando's is good and its not because they only have Howard. Their backup is even better defensively IMO.

Look, Is he awkward? Yes but so is Tyler IMO. All I care about is wins not style.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-16-2010, 10:51 AM
In case someone wondered, I thoroughly enjoyed the preseason game last night except for the complete 'melt-down' in the 3rd Qtr which was understandable with Danny being out and our TEAM basically 'laid-down' except for Tyler. And, don't say they didn't 'lay down' because even JOB stated our players challenged only 3 of 19 shots in the 3rd Qtr. And, don't forget that David West didn't play last night and CP didn't play the entire 4th QTR...so, put down the kool-aid. If this had been the regular season, it would have been a blow-out in favor of the Hornets beginning in the 3d quarter.

Infinite MAN_force
10-16-2010, 10:54 AM
Extremely effective at finishing blowouts with over 3/4 of his points last year coming in games with spreads greater than 10 points. He isn't very good and its disgusting how much unwanted hype he gets here.

He's going to get his shot and its going to get ugly and the hype can end and the franchise can move on. So get you JOB excuses ready beacuse its almost showtime.

All he did was lead the team in rebounds, blocks, steals, and with 4 assists from the PF position. We are running a large portion of the offense through him. He also had made a hustle play to win the game.

So tell me exactly what was "overrated" about his performance last night. I would love to hear it.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:59 AM
All he did was lead the team in rebounds, blocks, steals, and with 4 assists from the PF position. We are running a large portion of the offense through him. He also had made a hustle play to win the game.

So tell me exactly what was "overrated" about his performance last night. I would love to hear it.

Preseason my friend last year it made S Jones look like a legit player. What type of stat line are you guys expecting from Josh this year?

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 10:59 AM
The Pacers will be in a better place once Josh gets exposed so everyone can move on from the local hero and his 3.3 and 2.5 over 3 years in the league working in garbage time and we can find some real players.

Here, let me just share with you a basketball card that is sitting right in front of me.

Jermaine O'Neal season 1: 10.5 MPG, 4.1 pts, and 2.8 rbs. 45 gms played

Jermaine O'Neal season 2: 13.5 MPG, 4.5 pts, and 3.4 rbs. 60 gms played

Jermaine O'Neal season 3: 8.9 MPG, 2.6 pts, and 2.8 rbs. 30 gms played

Jermaine O'Neal season 4: 12.3 MPG, 3.9 pts and 3.3 rbs. 70 gms played

And...

Zach Randolph season 1: 5.8 MPG, 2.8 PPG, and 69 rebounds in 41 GP.

ZBo season 2: 16.9 MPG, 8.4 ppg, and 343 rbs in 77 GP

I thinks its safe to say that your being a troll and just trying to aggravate people.

righteouscool
10-16-2010, 11:00 AM
I think one of the most impressive things I took from last nights game was the Paul on Paul action. George smothered CP3. He is going to be a great defender.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 11:10 AM
I think one of the most impressive things I took from last nights game was the Paul on Paul action. George smothered CP3. He is going to be a great defender.

Very, VERY much agreed. I would be ecstatic if we ever see George guarding Rajon Rondo in the playoffs while DC chases down Nate or Avery Bradley, I don't know. Or like Derrick Rose guarded by George and Kyle Korver guarded by DC.

BlueNGold
10-16-2010, 11:12 AM
I think one of the most impressive things I took from last nights game was the Paul on Paul action. George smothered CP3. He is going to be a great defender.

George is going to be the best player on this team in a few years. Mark it down. He will surpass Granger.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 11:12 AM
Preseason my friend last year it made S Jones look like a legit player. What type of stat line are you guys expecting from Josh this year?

10 ppg, 9 rpg, 4 apg, and 1.5 bpg would make me happy, and I think he'll have a better season than that all things considered.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 11:16 AM
Here, let me just share with you a basketball card that is sitting right in front of me.

Jermaine O'Neal season 1: 10.5 MPG, 4.1 pts, and 2.8 rbs. 45 gms played

Jermaine O'Neal season 2: 13.5 MPG, 4.5 pts, and 3.4 rbs. 60 gms played

Jermaine O'Neal season 3: 8.9 MPG, 2.6 pts, and 2.8 rbs. 30 gms played

Jermaine O'Neal season 4: 12.3 MPG, 3.9 pts and 3.3 rbs. 70 gms played

And...

Zach Randolph season 1: 5.8 MPG, 2.8 PPG, and 69 rebounds in 41 GP.

ZBo season 2: 16.9 MPG, 8.4 ppg, and 343 rbs in 77 GP

I thinks its safe to say that your being a troll and just trying to aggravate people.

Nice one comparing the second youngest player in NBA history on one of the West's better teams with one of his years cut short with labor issues to a guy riding pine on bad teams for 3 years after 2 years in college.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 11:17 AM
George is going to be the best player on this team in a few years. Mark it down. He will surpass Granger.

When you said that you just made me do this:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Kevin%20Garnett/kg.gif

righteouscool
10-16-2010, 11:19 AM
George is going to be the best player on this team in a few years. Mark it down. He will surpass Granger.

It's also nice, because if he can prove to guard one of the quickest point guards, this should effectively end the "he's not quick enough to guard shooting guards" arguement.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 11:23 AM
Nice one comparing the second youngest player in NBA history on one of the West's better teams with one of his years cut short with labor issues to a guy riding pine on bad teams for 3 years after 2 years in college.

Does it make a difference? You can't compare player's careers if they're not exactly the same?

When you take off your Josh-hate glasses and talk with some sense rather than bashing who has been one of our best players for no apparent reason than I will talk to you like you're not a troll. It doesn't make any sense how you can bash this dude who has grown tremendously from four years ago and still has 3-4 years to develop completely, and trying to turn him into some Solomon Jones or Brian Cardinal. Tar Heel fan?

Oh yeah, and JOSH WAS 19 WHEN HE CAME INTO THE LEAGUE. Better get him a wheelchair he's way over the hump.

BlueNGold
10-16-2010, 11:27 AM
It's also nice, because if he can prove to guard one of the quickest point guards, this should effectively end the "he's not quick enough to guard shooting guards" arguement.

At this point, he just needs to settle down and head to the weight room. He appears to be a cross between Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter....but can defend far better. Right now he's unsure about what to do, but when the light bulb comes on it's going to be special.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 11:29 AM
10 ppg, 9 rpg, 4 apg, and 1.5 bpg would make me happy, and I think he'll have a better season than that all things considered.

So you think Josh is going to average a double-double since you think he will have a better season all things considered than 10 and 9?

8 players had DD last year and only 13 were at 10 and 9 or better. Those 4 assists would get him ranked around top 35 in the NBA but no player had 10-9-4 last year and the 1.5 on top of that mess would be 16th in blocks.

The season that would make you happy is Josh Smith not Josh McRoberts!

Mackey_Rose
10-16-2010, 11:36 AM
Does it make a difference? You can't compare player's careers if they're not exactly the same?

When you take off your Josh-hate glasses and talk with some sense rather than bashing who has been one of our best players for no apparent reason than I will talk to you like you're not a troll. It doesn't make any sense how you can bash this dude who has grown tremendously from four years ago and still has 3-4 years to develop completely, and trying to turn him into some Solomon Jones or Brian Cardinal. Tar Heel fan?

Oh yeah, and JOSH WAS 19 WHEN HE CAME INTO THE LEAGUE. Better get him a wheelchair he's way over the hump.

I think you are right. He isn't a Pacers fan. He is a troll.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 11:48 AM
So you think Josh is going to average a double-double since you think he will have a better season all things considered than 10 and 9?

8 players had DD last year and only 13 were at 10 and 9 or better. Those 4 assists would get him ranked around top 35 in the NBA but no player had 10-9-4 last year and the 1.5 on top of that mess would be 16th in blocks.

The season that would make you happy is Josh Smith not Josh McRoberts!

Do you think that 10 and 9 is out of the question? Do you really think a double double means anything ever since Troy has been here. It's like the dumb things that Stuart Scott before a game. "When there's a full moon on the 21st day of October and Phil Jackson's face is shaved the Lakers are 3-0."

Or, "When the Celtics play at the Lakers and the Lakers get 45+ rebounds they are 5-1". Thats about how much stock I put into people into being a double double guy.

Its more about your opportunity or situation than just being a monster. For example, chances are that Troy Murphy or Al Jefferson aren't going to average a double double. Dwight Howard is the exception obviously.

And the reason that no one had 10-9-4 last year is because no one played in the high post as much as Josh does, and when he gets a board he's off to the races.

Would you please take your "I HATE JOSH MCROBERTS" fangear off?

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 11:48 AM
I think you are right. He isn't a Pacers fan. He is a troll.

Yeah you guys totally busted me been here for almost a year just to troll a guy who spent 3 years on the bench.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 11:50 AM
280+ baseless McRoberts bashing posts. Bravo for the dedication to your ridiculous cause.

What he said, Austin.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 11:51 AM
Yeah you guys totally busted me been here for almost a year just to troll a guy who spent 3 years on the bench.

Jermaine O'Neal spent 4 years on the bench???

TooBigNdaPaint
10-16-2010, 11:56 AM
I totally agree that if you have a chance to upgrade a position on this team that Bird should do it in a heart beat.

I also agree that Hibbert is less likely to become an elite center in the NBA when compared to 7 foot athletic guys who can move their man under the basket.

What I have a problem with is when I go to a game last year and see Hibbert dominate in a game against an elite center ie Howard. I mean 26 pnts, 8 rds, and 4 blocks against Orlando's is good and its not because they only have Howard. Their backup is even better defensively IMO.

Look, Is he awkward? Yes but so is Tyler IMO. All I care about is wins not style.

Hibbert does play better against the shorter Centers in this league. But don't fool yourself about Dwight Howard. DH was in foul trouble the entire game and didn't play hard until their TEAM decided to wipe our collective butts and close us out. We need athletic players that can withstand 'increased' tempo and defensive pressure when elite teams decide to 'turn it on' and finish games against us. LB needs to get us another athletic Center that can match up better.....is ALL i'm saying....so, we actually agree. I mean, I really DO like Hibbert alot. I just know from an athletic standpoint, he's slow-twitch and unexplosive but plays with the heart of a lion.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 11:58 AM
Do you think that 10 and 9 is out of the question? Do you really think a double double means anything ever since Troy has been here. It's like the dumb things that Stuart Scott before a game. "When there's a full moon on the 21st day of October and Phil Jackson's face is shaved the Lakers are 3-0."

Or, "When the Celtics play at the Lakers and the Lakers get 45+ rebounds they are 5-1". Thats about how much stock I put into people into being a double double guy.

Its more about your opportunity or situation than just being a monster. For example, chances are that Troy Murphy or Al Jefferson aren't going to average a double double. Dwight Howard is the exception obviously.

And the reason that no one had 10-9-4 last year is because no one played in the high post as much as Josh does, and when he gets a board he's off to the races.

Would you please take your "I HATE JOSH MCROBERTS" fangear off?


Yes 10-9 for the season is out of the question or him he can't even do that in preseason. So nobody is like Josh is why their was no player in the NBA reached 10-9-4 let alone add a block and a half a game on top?

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 12:00 PM
Jermaine O'Neal spent 4 years on the bench???

Out of HS on one of the West's top teams.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 12:04 PM
Yes 10-9 for the season is out of the question or him he can't even do that in preseason. So nobody is like Josh is why their was no player in the NBA reached 10-9-4 let alone add a block and a half a game on top?

If he plays 34-36 minutes a game he will get those numbers. He has played 24-28 minutes in the preseason. No **** he isn't averaging those numbers.

I'm done playing your games.

Infinite MAN_force
10-16-2010, 12:20 PM
Yeah you guys totally busted me been here for almost a year just to troll a guy who spent 3 years on the bench.

This is the only thing you ever post about. You are a troll. I'm starting to seriously suspect that you must have gone to Carmel High School. Did Josh bang your girlfriend or something?

Pacers4Life
10-16-2010, 12:39 PM
I cant't find a highlight pof it and im pissed. But PG's sick dunk was #4 on SPORTSCENTERS TOP 10. And Demar DeRoazen (god idk how to spell that) got #1 with an eerily similar dunk... its not Paul's fault he jumps HIGHER and makes it look EASIER...

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 01:47 PM
If he plays 34-36 minutes a game he will get those numbers. He has played 24-28 minutes in the preseason. No **** he isn't averaging those numbers.

I'm done playing your games.

So to clear this up he's going to do what nobody else in the league is doing if he gets 35 MPG?

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 01:51 PM
This is the only thing you ever post about. You are a troll. I'm starting to seriously suspect that you must have gone to Carmel High School. Did Josh bang your girlfriend or something?

No I'm not from the area which is why I can see Josh as a nothing bench player.

Hicks
10-16-2010, 01:52 PM
So to clear this up he's going to do what nobody else in the league is doing if he gets 35 MPG?

I can't think of another PF with his specific arrangement of strengths, so, yeah, he probably could, if anyone is going to.

Hicks
10-16-2010, 01:55 PM
The way I see it, Josh clearly can pass, handle the ball, get up high for alley-oops, and make smart decisions when he has the ball, while defensively he can clearly block shots and cross a large area of the floor quickly with his speed.

What I need to see this year from Josh is how well he can guard his post man on the low block without help, first and foremost, and then can he avoid foul trouble and losing his cool (he seems to get upset quickly when someone gets too physical with him).

If he can hold his own in the low post defensively, and keep those other two things in check, barring some sort of super mental meltdown once the regular season starts, I think he's arrived as a good starting PF. Not a star, but I don't care about that.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 02:05 PM
I can't think of another PF with his specific arrangement of strengths, so, yeah, he probably could, if anyone is going to.

Talk about your Indiana fever, He will be lucky to last 20 games the starter let alone go off for 10-9-4-1.5! If anyone other than Pacers fans though he could he wouldn't have went in the 2nd round, been traded and sat the bench for 3 years the last 2 on a terrible team and only become the early starter when the guy they like more is recovering from an odd injury last year.

Part Timer
10-16-2010, 02:48 PM
Talk about your Indiana fever, He will be lucky to last 20 games the starter let alone go off for 10-9-4-1.5! If anyone other than Pacers fans though he could he wouldn't have went in the 2nd round, been traded and sat the bench for 3 years the last 2 on a terrible team and only become the early starter when the guy they like more is recovering from an odd injury last year.

If you think McRoberts will flame out, then you're certainly entitled to that opinion, and maybe you'll be correct. However, your apparent desire to see him fail is curious and reveals an attitude that is seemingly shaped by more than an opinion of his basketball skills.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 03:00 PM
If you think McRoberts will flame out, then you're certainly entitled to that opinion, and maybe you'll be correct. However, your apparent desire to see him fail is curious and reveals an attitude that is seemingly shaped by more than an opinion of his basketball skills.

Josh probably gave him a swirlie while he was at Carmel.

xBulletproof
10-16-2010, 03:38 PM
I've not been much of a McRobert fan until late in the year last year, but I'm starting to come around. I've had a man crush on Tyler since I saw him **** off Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace to the point where they wanted to fight, and he just calmly walked away from both. At this point either one is a better player to me than Troy Murphy. I'm so much happier with the PF position this year.

I remember when we drafted Paul George, I had a huge "**** YES! That's who I wanted, welcome to Indiana Paul George!!" post on facebook. I had a local radio personality and some other people asking me if I was being sarcastic and giving me a ton of crap for being excited about it. I've seen nothing to damper that excitement. The kid is disruptive on defense, and he's oh so close to throwing people's shots on help defense. Just wait until he gets it and see's these things happening just a step sooner. He's already started looking for his shot on the way to the rim, not just determined to get to the rim. Took him 1 game of driving past the easy mid range shot to figure that out.

Collison is what I expected. A little turnover happy at times, but the good outweighs the bad by a pretty large margin.

This is going to be a fun year.

Mackey_Rose
10-16-2010, 03:45 PM
I just searched AlexAustin's previous posts...woah, just woah. And this guy says we are obsessed with McRoberts? Unreal. He must have McBob in his nightmares every night.

I think IMF is on to something. Josh must have plowed his wife and sister at the same time and then never called them back.

It does lend more credence to my theory of "Tyler fanboys" rooting for Josh to fail based on old collegiate biases, however. Perhaps not all of them, but some certainly do.

MyFavMartin
10-16-2010, 03:47 PM
ESPN's Associated Press recap of the game says "Nick Collison" instead of Darren. :laugh:

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 03:50 PM
He's stated he's from Poplar Bluff, Missouri so he's all torn up about the fact that his hometown boy is not as good a pro player as his college rival. Why he has such a personal vendetta makes no sense to me considering McRoberts and Hansbrough seem to get along great.

Psycho T
10-16-2010, 03:51 PM
The way I see it, Josh clearly can pass, handle the ball, get up high for alley-oops, and make smart decisions when he has the ball, while defensively he can clearly block shots and cross a large area of the floor quickly with his speed.

Thats all he has ever been able to do. IMO he hasnt changed at all from his Duke days. His offense consists of dunks which isnt enough IMO. I am not seeing the smart decisions honestly. He has thrown the ball to no one several times during the preseason including 2 or 3 times against the Hornets.

What I need to see this year from Josh is how well he can guard his post man on the low block without help, first and foremost, and then can he avoid foul trouble and losing his cool (he seems to get upset quickly when someone gets too physical with him).

Same as he was in college. Each time Hans got an and 1 on him he looked like he was about to explode / cry. ( which he eventually did )

If he can hold his own in the low post defensively, and keep those other two things in check, barring some sort of super mental meltdown once the regular season starts, I think he's arrived as a good starting PF. Not a star, but I don't care about that.

He hasnt shown he can guard the post yet.. Maybe he figures it out all of a sudden which isnt likely. Right now weak side blocks are 99% of his defense and he aint gonna get 4+ blocks every game.

I dont understand the hype myself.. He has been in the league for awhile now and has yet to do anything. The only reason he got playing time last year was because Foster and Hans went down and now this year he is starting because Hans isnt 100% game ready yet. If Foster were healthy / not ancient McBob would be back as the 12th man before the half way point.

A big man stuck in a guards body. Its like people think he is Toni Kukoc or something.

Chuck Chillout
10-16-2010, 03:56 PM
The Pacers will be in a better place once Josh gets exposed so everyone can move on from the local hero and his 3.3 and 2.5 over 3 years in the league working in garbage time and we can find some real players.
Hell, I went to Warren C. and therefore hated all things Carmel, so I have no investment in him succeeding as a "local hero"- I just think his athleticism + versatility are going to help the Pacers win ballgames, whether he scores 20, 10, or 4 per game. Appreciate your dissenting opinion and the healthy debate, though.

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 03:56 PM
Again with the college bull****. The Hansbrough removed just can't help themselves. They are both Pacers. This isn't an ACC message board. I don't give a **** what happened before they came to Indiana.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 04:03 PM
Again with the college bull****. The Hansbrough nut hangers just can't help themselves. They are both Pacers. This isn't an ACC message board. I don't give a **** what happened before they came to Indiana.

x1000

Hicks
10-16-2010, 04:13 PM
I dont understand the hype myself.. He has been in the league for awhile now and has yet to do anything. The only reason he got playing time last year was because Foster and Hans went down and now this year he is starting because Hans isnt 100% game ready yet. If Foster were healthy / not ancient McBob would be back as the 12th man before the half way point.

A big man stuck in a guards body. Its like people think he is Toni Kukoc or something.

You say "that's all" as if that's not plenty. It is. You get him the ball, and he's a threat to drive or pass, and he's not a total liability with the jumper anymore, though that's always going to be his third best option by a wide margin.

You don't have to have a complete package to be a valuable contributor.

You say he can only score on dunks, well, that's not entirely true for one thing, but you leave out the part that he's fast and athletic enough to get loose for said dunks; it's not that hard for him to find an opportunity.

But scoring will never be what makes him worth playing, so I'm not going to keep talking about it because it's not going to lead anywhere. He's wroth playing because he gives his man trouble in ways they're not used to (his guard-like abilities) and he's a good facilitator with the ball in his hands and he can keep the defense honest with his off-ball movement. That's his true value offensively, and it works.

We don't need him to be a scorer.

Chuck Chillout
10-16-2010, 04:13 PM
The way I see it, Josh clearly can pass, handle the ball, get up high for alley-oops, and make smart decisions when he has the ball, while defensively he can clearly block shots and cross a large area of the floor quickly with his speed.

What I need to see this year from Josh is how well he can guard his post man on the low block without help, first and foremost, and then can he avoid foul trouble and losing his cool (he seems to get upset quickly when someone gets too physical with him).

If he can hold his own in the low post defensively, and keep those other two things in check, barring some sort of super mental meltdown once the regular season starts, I think he's arrived as a good starting PF. Not a star, but I don't care about that.

Absolutely agree about his ability as a defender being key. With a scoring center and additional scoring coming from the 1 and 3, his ability to fill a role makes him potentially more valuable than Murphy was, IMO.

WhackoJacko
10-16-2010, 08:06 PM
You say "that's all" as if that's not plenty. It is. You get him the ball, and he's a threat to drive or pass, and he's not a total liability with the jumper anymore, though that's always going to be his third best option by a wide margin.

You don't have to have a complete package to be a valuable contributor.

You say he can only score on dunks, well, that's not entirely true for one thing, but you leave out the part that he's fast and athletic enough to get loose for said dunks; it's not that hard for him to find an opportunity.

But scoring will never be what makes him worth playing, so I'm not going to keep talking about it because it's not going to lead anywhere. He's wroth playing because he gives his man trouble in ways they're not used to (his guard-like abilities) and he's a good facilitator with the ball in his hands and he can keep the defense honest with his off-ball movement. That's his true value offensively, and it works.

We don't need him to be a scorer.



You don't have to have a complete package to be a valuable

If only this criteria was used by some in describing Dun or Troy.

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 08:11 PM
You don't have to have a complete package to be a valuable

If only this criteria was used by some in describing Dun or Troy.

Is every post you make going to be how you feel the fans have unfairly treated these two?

Let me know when either one makes the playoffs.

WhackoJacko
10-16-2010, 08:17 PM
Is every post you make going to be how you feel the fans have unfairly treated these two?

Let me know when either one makes the playoffs.

Kinda sensitive aren't you? Fair and balanced is something we should all strive for.

BringJackBack
10-16-2010, 08:23 PM
Okay, to be fair, Troy Murphy sucks rocks.

To be fair, last two seasons, Mike has hurt us far more than he has helped us by a large margin. I do hope that he is back to normal this season, and things have looked good so far. However, he isn't the same player as the 07-08 season, and we all know that.

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 08:30 PM
Kinda sensitive aren't you? Fair and balanced is something we should all strive for.

I'm being fair and balanced when I say we got better because we got rid of Murphy and Dunleavy was our worst player last year. I hope Dunleavy getting healthier improves his game.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 08:51 PM
If you think McRoberts will flame out, then you're certainly entitled to that opinion, and maybe you'll be correct. However, your apparent desire to see him fail is curious and reveals an attitude that is seemingly shaped by more than an opinion of his basketball skills.

Don't you need to have a fire burning for it to flame out? Josh can't seven say he's seen a spark and that's one reason I'm excited to see him fail so we all can move on from this nonsense about how great he can be but JOB his holding him from this superstar 10-9-4-1.5 player.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Josh probably gave him a swirlie while he was at Carmel.

If Josh tried to do that to anyone wouldn't he end up crying in a towel?

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Don't you need to have a fire burning for it to flame out? Josh can't seven say he's seen a spark and that's one reason I'm excited to see him fail so we all can move on from this nonsense about how great he can be but JOB his holding him from this superstar 10-9-4-1.5 player.

why are you hoping a pacers player fails? thats just dumb

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 09:00 PM
I just searched AlexAustin's previous posts...woah, just woah. And this guy says we are obsessed with McRoberts? Unreal. He must have McBob in his nightmares every night.

I think IMF is on to something. Josh must have plowed his wife and sister at the same time and then never called them back.

It does lend more credence to my theory of "Tyler fanboys" rooting for Josh to fail based on old collegiate biases, however. Perhaps not all of them, but some certainly do.


I post a lot on Josh because I don't live near Indiana therefore I don't understand the love for someone so mediocre and it gets unbelievably old! Once he gets his shot and gets exposed it can end and we can move on, well after the year of reasons to why JOB made him fail.

And how is a Tyler fan-boy different from a Josh fan-boy, Except Tyler has actually done something on the floor to get his fans?

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 09:01 PM
why are you hoping a pacers player fails? thats just dumb

He's not a Pacer fan. He's only here because Hansbrough is on the team. The animosity towards McRoberts must stem from jealousy.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 09:06 PM
He's stated he's from Poplar Bluff, Missouri so he's all torn up about the fact that his hometown boy is not as good a pro player as his college rival. Why he has such a personal vendetta makes no sense to me considering McRoberts and Hansbrough seem to get along great.

I have made no secret to liking Tyler. Also If Tyler isn't good what does that make Josh, Because Tyler has scored 25 less points in 321 less Min in his NBA career and had one of the better NCAA careers ever.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 09:06 PM
I post a lot on Josh because I don't live near Indiana therefore I don't understand the love for someone so mediocre and it gets unbelievably old! Once he gets his shot and gets exposed it can end and we can move on, well after the year of reasons to why JOB made him fail.

And how is a Tyler fan-boy different from a Josh fan-boy, Except Tyler has actually done something on the floor to get his fans?

have you been watching the games? Josh is playing really well maybe buy league pass and watch how good he plays with the starters.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 09:08 PM
I have made no secret to liking Tyler. Also If Tyler isn't good what does that make Josh, Because Tyler has scored 25 less points in 321 less Min in his NBA career and had one of the better NCAA careers ever.

He's not in the NCAA anymore. He's in the NBA. That statement is irrelevant.

BlueNGold
10-16-2010, 09:08 PM
I post a lot on Josh because I don't live near Indiana therefore I don't understand the love for someone so mediocre and it gets unbelievably old! Once he gets his shot and gets exposed it can end and we can move on, well after the year of reasons to why JOB made him fail.

And how is a Tyler fan-boy different from a Josh fan-boy, Except Tyler has actually done something on the floor to get his fans?

Very, very few Pacer fans give a hoot that Josh McRoberts played at a local high school. I think anyone who can't see that McBob fits better with our starting unit simply is missing the obvious.

Personally, I grew up hating Carmel High School and I have not one iota of interest in Josh from that perspective. In fact, I like watching Tyler play somewhat more than Josh.

But the fact is undeniable even if I don't like it. Josh is not perfect but fits better with our starting lineup. Tyler is still a very interesting player, but at the moment Josh still has the edge.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 09:12 PM
Very, very few Pacer fans give a hoot that Josh McRoberts played at a local high school. I think anyone who can't see that McBob fits better with our starting unit simply is missing the obvious.

Personally, I grew up hating Carmel High School and I have not one iota of interest in Josh from that perspective. In fact, I like watching Tyler play somewhat more than Josh.

But the fact is undeniable even if I don't like it. Josh is not perfect but fits better with our starting lineup. Tyler is still a very interesting player, but at the moment Josh still has the edge.

**** i go to Warren we are Carmel's rival

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 09:13 PM
I have made no secret to liking Tyler. Also If Tyler isn't good what does that make Josh, Because Tyler has scored 25 less points in 321 less Min in his NBA career and had one of the better NCAA careers ever.

Josh is the better player now. I never said Tyler wasn't good. There is more to this game than scoring. Tyler will score more than Josh. But that's the only thing he does better. I like Tyler the Pacer. I don't care about his or anyone else's college career.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 09:14 PM
why are you hoping a pacers player fails? thats just dumb

So we can end this unwarranted Josh hype! He's done nothing at all to deserve it, If he has a season close to what people are thinking I will give him love and say I was wrong but damn guys what has he done other than be local.

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 09:18 PM
So we can end this unwarranted Josh hype! He's done nothing at all to deserve it, If he has a season close to what people are thinking I will give him love and say I was wrong but damn guys what has he done other than be local.

The fact that he is from Carmel, spurned IU, and went to Duke is far more detriment than help when it comes to him gaining fans around my hometown. I personally don't give a **** where he is from.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 09:20 PM
He's not a Pacer fan. He's only here because Hansbrough is on the team. The animosity towards McRoberts must stem from jealousy.

I was a Pacers and Reggie fan for a long time when they were the closet team to me but once a team moved closer I fell away from them only to have Tyler bring me back. And as a Tyler fan why would I ever be jealous of Josh? What has he ever done to make me Jealous if anything I wish he stayed 4 years at Duke to make things easier on Tyler owning them and he is only keeping Tyler spot warm starting this year until he proves he's healthy.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 09:26 PM
The fact that he is from Carmel, spurned IU, and went to Duke is far more detriment than help when it comes to him gaining fans around my hometown. I personally don't give a **** where he is from.

Why do I feel that not to be 100% true? If it was Carmel High School in New York and not Indiana Josh would be just another bench player with some flashy dunks like every team has or by name Joe Alexander without the Money.

Sookie
10-16-2010, 09:27 PM
I was a Pacers and Reggie fan for a long time when they were the closet team to me but once a team moved closer I fell away from them only to have Tyler bring me back. And as a Tyler fan why would I ever be jealous of Josh? What has he ever done to make me Jealous if anything I wish he stayed 4 years at Duke to make things easier on Tyler owning them and he is only keeping Tyler spot warm starting this year until he proves he's healthy.

Because he's starting and Tyler isn't.

And quite frankly, he deserves to start and is playing really well and fitting in with the starters. He's also a better player than Tyler right now, and it's not close.

And this is coming from someone who would have said Tyler was better last season, and I like them both. But Josh deserves the starting nod right now. (And obviously, Josh has the health/playing time advantage, but this is the truth right now.)

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2010, 09:30 PM
Why do I feel that not to be 100% true? If it was Carmel High School in New York and not Indiana Josh would be just another bench player with some flashy dunks like every team has or by name Joe Alexander without the Money.

Because you clearly don't know much about Carmel High School.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 09:31 PM
So we can end this unwarranted Josh hype! He's done nothing at all to deserve it, If he has a season close to what people are thinking I will give him love and say I was wrong but damn guys what has he done other than be local.

The whole "Just because he's local" thing really doesn't apply here. I mean, look at Gordon Hayward. Prime example. This place, and myself included, were BEGGING for Utah or someone to take him so Larry wasn't tempted to draft him. I think him going to Utah drew more cheers then us actually drafting Paul George, who many liked.

Mackey_Rose
10-16-2010, 09:31 PM
I post a lot on Josh because I don't live near Indiana therefore I don't understand the love for someone so mediocre and it gets unbelievably old! Once he gets his shot and gets exposed it can end and we can move on, well after the year of reasons to why JOB made him fail.

And how is a Tyler fan-boy different from a Josh fan-boy, Except Tyler has actually done something on the floor to get his fans?

It isn't that you post a lot about Josh. It is the fact that you post almost exclusively about Josh, and then say we are the ones obsessed with him. Your intentions seem to stem from some serious personal problem you have with the kid.

You clearly aren't from around here if you think the fact that Josh is from Carmel, makes one person on this board root for him. Everybody in this area hates Carmel, except for Carmelites, and even some of them do. So that argument is complete bunk.

As I have said earlier in this thread, the posters who you would describe as Josh fans are more accurately described as Pacers fans. This group of fans wants Josh to continue to show the great strides in his game that he has made in his time here and become a major contributor to the team as its current starting power forward. They also are hopeful that Tyler can continue to recover from his very weird and unfortunate injury situation of last year and likewise become a major contributor for the good of this team. We certainly need them both.

That is where in my mind there is a serious disconnect between the "Josh fanboys" and the "Tyler fanboys." They could more aptly be called "Tar Heel Fanboys." They are not Pacers fans but follow the team because their "legend" is on the team. They are hopimg for McRoberts to fail with his increased opportunity because it really burns them up that a Dukie who did not have as good of a college career as Tyler is playing in front of him.

Its time to let it go. They are teammates and from all appearances get along great. Get over your petty collegiate biases. They have, it would be nice if you would too.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 09:34 PM
Mackey is quickly becoming my new favorite member.

xBulletproof
10-16-2010, 09:34 PM
Up until recently I haven't been much of a McRoberts believer. I'm still not as high on him as many here ...... that said ....

WTF on Gods green ****ing Earth are you talking about?

You keep claiming Hansbrough did more to earn the starting nod, than McRoberts. Here's the great thing you're missing .... last year Hansbrough played 511 minutes, and McRoberts played 524. Very tiny difference, yes?

So lets use that to compare. I'll bold the better numbers.

McRoberts -

52% FG
35% 3-Pt FG
59% FT
179 points
127 rebounds
44 assists
17 steals
16 blocks
19 turnovers

Tyler -

36% FG
0% 3PT FG
74% FT
246 points
138 rebounds
28 assists
17 steals
8 blocks
21 turnovers

Looks pretty damn even to me. Tyler is the better scorer (mainly because of his absurd number of FT attempts, and hampered by his horrible shooting last year) and McRoberts is the better with the ball. He has more assists, and less turnovers. He also blocks shots better, while getting the same number of steals.

No idea how you can claim McRoberts has accomplished nothing, and Hansbrough has accomplished all these great things to earn the starting nod.

You're just being absurd.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 09:37 PM
So we can end this unwarranted Josh hype! He's done nothing at all to deserve it, If he has a season close to what people are thinking I will give him love and say I was wrong but damn guys what has he done other than be local.

all i want him to do is hustle and rebound and play D and that will be fine stats dont matter Ws are what matter. Murphy put up #'s but he cost us wins becuse of lack of hustle and poor D.(which is an understatement)

tsm612
10-16-2010, 09:38 PM
I'm sorry, but all of this nonsense about us liking Josh because he's local is complete BS. Gordon Hayward legitimately is a local hero (Josh isn't) and almost everyone on this forum unanimously hated the idea of drafting the guy.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:33 PM
I'm sorry, but all of this nonsense about us liking Josh because he's local is complete BS. Gordon Hayward legitimately is a local hero (Josh isn't) and almost everyone on this forum unanimously hated the idea of drafting the guy.

I recall we had tons of people wanting to draft him.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:36 PM
Because he's starting and Tyler isn't.

And quite frankly, he deserves to start and is playing really well and fitting in with the starters. He's also a better player than Tyler right now, and it's not close.

And this is coming from someone who would have said Tyler was better last season, and I like them both. But Josh deserves the starting nod right now. (And obviously, Josh has the health/playing time advantage, but this is the truth right now.)

I don't expect Tyler to start he missed a ton of games last year, And Tyler was better than Josh after missing camp with the shin and having vertigo.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 10:36 PM
I don't expect Tyler to start he missed a ton of games last year, And Tyler was better than Josh after missing camp with the shin and having vertigo.

what are u basing that off of ??

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:37 PM
Because you clearly don't know much about Carmel High School.

Why would? But I know people love Josh because he's local and if he wasn't he would have a fraction of the love.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 10:42 PM
Why would? But I know people love Josh because he's local and if he wasn't he would have a fraction of the love.

no a lot of people dont like the carmel area. A lot of people think that is where rich snobs live. I wasnt real happy when we got him in that trade. But he has worked his tail off and turned into a decent player and the best fit for the starters.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:43 PM
IThat is where in my mind there is a serious disconnect between the "Josh fanboys" and the "Tyler fanboys." They could more aptly be called "Tar Heel Fanboys." They are not Pacers fans but follow the team because their "legend" is on the team. They are hopimg for McRoberts to fail with his increased opportunity because it really burns them up that a Dukie who did not have as good of a college career as Tyler is playing in front of him.

Its time to let it go. They are teammates and from all appearances get along great. Get over your petty collegiate biases. They have, it would be nice if you would too.

Let what go I never said anything about making it a Josh vs Tyler thing in this thread others have. I know Tyler will become the starter and I'm not worried about it since Josh is the current starter by default and if they had to cut one of the 2 guys right now they would cut Josh.

pacer4ever
10-16-2010, 10:46 PM
Let what go I never said anything about making it a Josh vs Tyler thing in this thread others have. I know Tyler will become the starter and I'm not worried about it since Josh is the current starter by default and if they had to cut one of the 2 guys right now they would cut Josh.


u should go to a UNC fourm this is pacers digest not UNC digest

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:53 PM
Up until recently I haven't been much of a McRoberts believer. I'm still not as high on him as many here ...... that said ....

WTF on Gods green ****ing Earth are you talking about?

You keep claiming Hansbrough did more to earn the starting nod, than McRoberts. Here's the great thing you're missing .... last year Hansbrough played 511 minutes, and McRoberts played 524. Very tiny difference, yes?

So lets use that to compare. I'll bold the better numbers.

McRoberts -

52% FG
35% 3-Pt FG
59% FT
179 points
127 rebounds
44 assists
17 steals
16 blocks
19 turnovers

Tyler -

36% FG
0% 3PT FG
74% FT
246 points
138 rebounds
28 assists
17 steals
8 blocks
21 turnovers

Looks pretty damn even to me. Tyler is the better scorer (mainly because of his absurd number of FT attempts, and hampered by his horrible shooting last year) and McRoberts is the better with the ball. He has more assists, and less turnovers. He also blocks shots better, while getting the same number of steals.

No idea how you can claim McRoberts has accomplished nothing, and Hansbrough has accomplished all these great things to earn the starting nod.

You're just being absurd.

One player has been in the NBA for 3 years worth of practices and games while healthy and one was a rookie who had no training camp and vertigo.

JM vs TH Per-36
11.7 vs 17.3
9.1 vs 9.7
2.7 vs 2.0
1.3 vs 1.2
1.4 vs 0.6

What's a healthy Tyler going to do? I'm willing to bet the shooting percentage will rise and he will get his points for sure only blocks is where Josh has a clear advantage over Tyler.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:54 PM
what are u basing that off of ??

He's the better player and management likes him more.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 10:57 PM
u should go to a UNC fourm this is pacers digest not UNC digest

Why they already know Josh isn't good?

tsm612
10-16-2010, 10:59 PM
I recall we had tons of people wanting to draft him.

You recall incorrectly.

imawhat
10-16-2010, 11:01 PM
Please stop feeding the trolls.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 11:04 PM
You recall incorrectly.

Are you sure nobody here wanted him?

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 11:05 PM
Please stop feeding the trolls.

I'm trying but they keep telling me how great Josh is.

Lance George
10-16-2010, 11:14 PM
Tyler Hansbrough's 3rd quarter last night was more impressive than Josh McRoberts' entire NBA career. New Orleans had taken all of the momentum in easily wiping away our 16 point lead. It was looking like the 3rd quarter curse had struck again and another L was on the way. But no, Psycho T's will to win wouldn't let that happen. He went into beast mode, showing us that warrior's determination that helped make him the greatest player in modern NCAA basketball history. Tyler Hansbrough has brought a much needed winning mentality to the Indiana Pacers. WINNING--something Josh McRoberts knows absolutely nothing about.

BlueNGold
10-16-2010, 11:14 PM
Why would? But I know people love Josh because he's local and if he wasn't he would have a fraction of the love.

Where are you from boy? Not around here. As a result, you just don't get it.

I grew up 7 miles from Carmel High School and have lived in central Indiana for 45 years. Josh is disfavored if anything around here because a) he went to Carmel High School and b) he went to Duke rather than IU. If you cannot understand that, you will never get it.

BTW, I want Tyler to overshadow him. I love that power game, his energy, his dogged determination...the fact Stephen Jackson cried to his mama. All that. He's just not shown as much yet. Let the regular season sort it out. In the meantime, you need to stop assuming you know squat about how the locals feel about McBob. Dude's a Pacer and we like him for that...but nothing else.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 11:17 PM
Tyler Hansbrough's 3rd quarter last night was more impressive than Josh McRoberts' entire NBA career. New Orleans had taken all of the momentum in easily wiping away the Pacers' 16 point lead. It was looking like the 3rd quarter curse had struck again and another L was on the way. But no, Tyler wouldn't let that happen. He completely took over.

That's all well and good. It was fantastic, actually. Loved it.


But I noticed you didn't mention the fact that McBob made the game-winning play.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 11:25 PM
Where are you from boy? Not around here. As a result, you just don't get it.

I grew up 7 miles from Carmel High School and have lived in central Indiana for 45 years. Josh is disfavored if anything around here because a) he went to Carmel High School and b) he went to Duke rather than IU. If you cannot understand that, you will never get it.

BTW, I want Tyler to overshadow him. I love that power game, his energy, his dogged determination...the fact Stephen Jackson cried to his mama. All that. He's just not shown as much yet. Let the regular season sort it out. In the meantime, you need to stop assuming you know squat about how the locals feel about McBob. Dude's a Pacer and we like him for that...but nothing else.

Then why are you removed when he's done nothing? And I'm all for the letting the regular season sort it out that's why I'm happy that Josh is getting his shot that way we can stop with all the dumb excuses and we can see he isn't going to be a 10-9-4-1.5 player or his coach isn't holding him down.

Hicks
10-16-2010, 11:36 PM
Why has he "done nothing" to you? Because he doesn't score the ball? Because he cried once in college? Something else?

Lance George
10-16-2010, 11:39 PM
But I noticed you didn't mention the fact that McBob made the game-winning play.
A play made possible by Hansbrough's 3rd quarter dominance stopping New Orleans from blowing it wide open. A perfect example of Tyler's winning mentality rubbing off on others, including those lesser players more known for their beards than winning.

Day-V
10-16-2010, 11:44 PM
A play made possible by Hansbrough's 3rd quarter dominance stopping New Orleans from blowing it wide open. A perfect example of Tyler's winning mentality rubbing off on others, including those lesser players more known for their beards than winning.

Who was on the floor at the end of the game?

Hicks
10-16-2010, 11:45 PM
A play made possible by Hansbrough's 3rd quarter dominance stopping New Orleans from blowing it wide open. A perfect example of Tyler's winning mentality rubbing off on others, including those lesser players more known for their beards than winning.

I love that Tyler "plays like a winner" and all, but let's not forget that neither one has even seen the playoffs yet as a pro.

AlexAustin
10-16-2010, 11:45 PM
Why has he "done nothing" to you? Because he doesn't score the ball? Because he cried once in college? Something else?

A better question is what has he done? He has over 75% of his stats in games with 10+ point spreads. I can see liking the guy, he has had some nice looking garbage time dunks and that's fine and all but to act like he's some kind of player who we are lucky to have and will make us a winner is a joke.

Hicks
10-16-2010, 11:59 PM
A better question is what has he done? He has over 75% of his stats in games with 10+ point spreads. I can see liking the guy, he has had some nice looking garbage time dunks and that's fine and all but to act like he's some kind of player who we are lucky to have and will make us a winner is a joke.

What do you think about his passing?

What do you think about his ballhandling?

BlueNGold
10-17-2010, 12:01 AM
A better question is what has he done? He has over 75% of his stats in games with 10+ point spreads. I can see liking the guy, he has had some nice looking garbage time dunks and that's fine and all but to act like he's some kind of player who we are lucky to have and will make us a winner is a joke.

Neither of them have done much in the NBA. Tyler lit up who? Joe Alexander? Wait until he plays a legitimate PF and attempts to bring that game in the paint. Better yet, wait to see if Tyler can even stay healthy before you crown him king of the PF position. I think someone needs to page Naptown Seth...

Seriously, most of us here are pretty unbiased on those two players and don't really have an obvious favorite.

judicata
10-17-2010, 12:03 AM
Neither of them have done much in the NBA.


This is my position.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 12:08 AM
What do you think about his passing?

What do you think about his ballhandling?

Looks good when the teams are going though the motions, but when the lights are bright and it counts he will be a TO machine.

BlueNGold
10-17-2010, 12:12 AM
McBob has the following attributes that are better than Tyler and many are why he is starting:

1) Longer and more athletic. Hibbert needs paired with an athlete. Tyler is not bad, but he does not play above the rim the way Josh does.

2) Better defender. His main advantage is help-side defense. McBob does that very clearly better than Tyler.

3) The ball does not stick to his hands. In our motion offense, you want the ball moving between your best players. You want Danny, Collison and Hibbert to be making the plays on offense. Josh is the better passer. Tyler tends to hold the ball and attempt to score one-on-one.

4) McBob rebounds better.

5) The starting unit needs a garbage guy who isn't looking to score all the time. A guy that gets in the passing lanes, follows up an errant shot, etc. This better describes McBob.


Edit: As Hicks implies, McBob is the more capable ball handler and passer. Another advantage is that McBob seems to be mentally quick. I don't think Tyler or Granger can make decisions with the ball that quickly.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 12:16 AM
Neither of them have done much in the NBA. Tyler lit up who? Joe Alexander? Wait until he plays a legitimate PF and attempts to bring that game in the paint. Better yet, wait to see if Tyler can even stay healthy before you crown him king of the PF position. I think someone needs to page Naptown Seth...

Seriously, most of us here are pretty unbiased on those two players and don't really have an obvious favorite.

I will be willing to wait for that but everything you said goes for Josh as well, and if you guys want to make it Tyler vs Josh thing Hans has actually played meaningful 4Q that and has resulted in wins. And speaking of Seth he loves Josh but dislikes Tyler so wouldn't that make he a troll and not a Pacers fan too since he has basically the reversed views as me?

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 12:18 AM
McBob has the following attributes that are better than Tyler and many are why he is starting:

1) Longer and more athletic. Hibbert needs paired with an athlete. Tyler is not bad, but he does not play above the rim the way Josh does.

2) Better defender. His main advantage is help-side defense. McBob does that very clearly better than Tyler.

3) The ball does not stick to his hands. In our motion offense, you want the ball moving between your best players. You want Danny, Collison and Hibbert to be making the plays on offense. Josh is the better passer. Tyler tends to hold the ball and attempt to score one-on-one.

4) McBob rebounds better.

5) The starting unit needs a garbage guy who isn't looking to score all the time. A guy that gets in the passing lanes, follows up an errant shot, etc. This better describes McBob.

If he has all that why didn't he get picked as a lottery selection and took 3 years to start just because the guy he's has all these better skills than had a freak illness. And to say he rebounds better is a joke when he doesn't even have a better per-36 than the guy who's been hurt.

BringJackBack
10-17-2010, 12:20 AM
McBob has the following attributes that are better than Tyler and many are why he is starting:

1) Longer and more athletic. Hibbert needs paired with an athlete. Tyler is not bad, but he does not play above the rim the way Josh does.

2) Better defender. His main advantage is help-side defense. McBob does that very clearly better than Tyler.

3) The ball does not stick to his hands. In our motion offense, you want the ball moving between your best players. You want Danny, Collison and Hibbert to be making the plays on offense. Josh is the better passer. Tyler tends to hold the ball and attempt to score one-on-one.

4) McBob rebounds better.

5) The starting unit needs a garbage guy who isn't looking to score all the time. A guy that gets in the passing lanes, follows up an errant shot, etc. This better describes McBob.

And to add to your post:

Tyler is by no means a bad player. He fits in with our bench because he goes one on one. Having Posey and DC or Price helps as well because they are patient to find Hansbrough and use him to his strengths; in other words, not isoing him at the top of the key, instead posting him up or doing a pick n pop.

In the starting lineup Tyler would be shooting jumpshots all the time because we would always be posting Hibbert up, and we would struggle rebounding. Not saying that Tyler is a bad rebounder, but Josh covers the vicinity of the court that Roy cannot.

On offense I like this lineup for when we do substitutions:

AJ/DC (Depending on whatever)
George
Posey/Dunleavy (Both do a good job of getting Tyler and others going)
Tyler
Josh

BringJackBack
10-17-2010, 12:24 AM
I will be willing to wait for that but everything you said goes for Josh as well, and if you guys want to make it Tyler vs Josh thing Hans has actually played meaningful 4Q that and has resulted in wins. And speaking of Seth he loves Josh but dislikes Tyler so wouldn't that make he a troll and not a Pacers fan too since he has basically the reversed views as me?

Seths been through alot too before I actually joined the board. I used to read alot and he's been called alot for being the opposite of your beliefs.


If he has all they why did he get picked as a lottery selection and took 3 years to start just because they guy he's has all this better skills than had a freak illness. And to say he rebounds better is a joke when he doesn't even have a better per-36 than the guy who's been hurt.

:picard:

It doesn't matter. Does that mean that Monta Ellis is terrible.

Open your eyes bro.

vnzla81
10-17-2010, 12:26 AM
Can we just wait to see this guys playing for at least half of the season and then decide who is the best? Right now we don't know how good they are, hopefully both are good

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 12:36 AM
Can we just wait to see this guys playing for at least half of the season and then decide who is the best? Right now we don't know how good they are, hopefully is both.

I can't wait until the 27th when the show starts should be interesting and have the to the 4 games November 16-22 against Atlanta, Clippers, Orlando and Miami circled as the last week of the Josh experiment.

BlueNGold
10-17-2010, 12:37 AM
If he has all that why didn't he get picked as a lottery selection and took 3 years to start just because the guy he's has all these better skills than had a freak illness. And to say he rebounds better is a joke when he doesn't even have a better per-36 than the guy who's been hurt.

A lot of Tyler's boards were off his own misses last year. This year, McBob has the better per-36. But as I said, I'm not biased and I will give that one to you even if McBob is doing better than Tyler this year. I presume you agree with my other points since you did not comment on them...

BlueNGold
10-17-2010, 12:42 AM
And to add to your post:

Tyler is by no means a bad player. He fits in with our bench because he goes one on one.

This.

Not putting down Tyler because I love the way he plays the game. I'm just trying to state the facts the way I see them.

I think it may be inescapable that Tyler fits too well to add scoring punch off the bench...and McBob simply pairs better with the starting unit. I don't know if that will change. The only way it changes is if Tyler really steps up his game and he has to be in there. I don't see that happening though...because like Lance Stephenson...the ball sticks too much to his hands.

Hicks
10-17-2010, 12:46 AM
Looks good when the teams are going though the motions, but when the lights are bright and it counts he will be a TO machine.

How could you possibly know that for sure?

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 01:05 AM
How could you possibly know that for sure?

Because he's clearly a mediocre talent, he does do some things decent but nothing like fans here make it out to be. If Josh was from NY and played for the Suns nobody would be here saying we should really get this McRoberts cat off the Suns bench.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 01:09 AM
A lot of Tyler's boards were off his own misses last year. This year, McBob has the better per-36. But as I said, I'm not biased and I will give that one to you even if McBob is doing better than Tyler this year. I presume you agree with my other points since you did not comment on them...


This year as in Preseason? Josh will not have better Per-36 during the regular season and he does do some things OK but nothing like what you are trying to make it out to be because if he did teams would see value in him.

BringJackBack
10-17-2010, 01:11 AM
Yeah we would. Look at Brandon Bass, Jarryd Bayless, and Ryan Hollins how minutes and an increased role can definitely change your game.

Plus, Josh would be starting over Hedo at the four.

You're just not going to get it because you want him to fail.

Hicks
10-17-2010, 01:16 AM
Because he's clearly a mediocre talent, he does do some things decent but nothing like fans here make it out to be. If Josh was from NY and played for the Suns nobody would be here saying we should really get this McRoberts cat off the Suns bench.

Because we wouldn't know about him yet, but we do know about him because we get to see every single game he plays.

Your view that he's "clearly" this or that doesn't hold water considering the vast majority disagree with you, and despite your claims to the contrary, that has little or nothing to do with him being a Carmel kid.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 01:31 AM
Because we wouldn't know about him yet, but we do know about him because we get to see every single game he plays.

Your view that he's "clearly" this or that doesn't hold water considering the vast majority disagree with you, and despite your claims to the contrary, that has little or nothing to do with him being a Carmel kid.

People inside the game see him more than any of us and they don't seem to think he has any value. If he did he would have played more PT or someone would have wanted him. After he gets exposed in his default starting role he will be one step closer to heading overseas to try and salvage his career.

Hicks
10-17-2010, 01:36 AM
People inside the game see him more than any of us and they don't seem to think he has any value.

Except, apparently, according to you, the Pacers, who Morway has praised Josh's potential since we acquired him, and now Indiana not only starts him, but wants him to play over 30mpg this year, ahead of a healthy Tyler Hansbrough no less (who they also are high on).

If you're next move is to say no one is trying to trade for him, why would they until he proves it in the regular season?

I don't think anyone here is trying to argue it's 100% he's going to be what we think he's going to be, but we're mostly pretty damn sure he's gonna be decent/good this year, and it won't be long before he proves it.

I don't know what mystical thing is supposed to happen to the other 29 teams starting on October 27th to where Josh's abilities suddenly won't look as good as they have up until last night, but obviously you feel something significant is going to happen causing him to fail.

So my final question to you is: How many games of decent/good play in the regular season until you admit he belongs in the starting lineup, and not just by default? 5? 10? 20? More?

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 02:04 AM
Except, apparently, according to you, the Pacers, who Morway has praised Josh's potential since we acquired him, and now Indiana not only starts him, but wants him to play over 30mpg this year, ahead of a healthy Tyler Hansbrough no less (who they also are high on).

If you're next move is to say no one is trying to trade for him, why would they until he proves it in the regular season?

I don't think anyone here is trying to argue it's 100% he's going to be what we think he's going to be, but we're mostly pretty damn sure he's gonna be decent/good this year, and it won't be long before he proves it.

I don't know what mystical thing is supposed to happen to the other 29 teams starting on October 27th to where Josh's abilities suddenly won't look as good as they have up until last night, but obviously you feel something significant is going to happen causing him to fail.

So my final question to you is: How many games of decent/good play in the regular season until you admit he belongs in the starting lineup, and not just by default? 5? 10? 20? More?

What is he going to day we got this guy because he sucks? They are starting him right now by default because he's the only 100% option and everyone here already knows that. He isn't going to finish as the starter and once Tyler shows he's fully healthy and gets his feet back under him its his job like has been the plan the whole time.

If Josh is still the starter at the halfway mark and we are healthy I will say he is the legit starter, if he has good numbers after 28 games I will be ready to start buying in after 56 games I will say he has real some talent after 82 games I will say I was totally wrong. But if Josh sucks and can't hold the starting job will you say Alex you were right the whole time and Josh is overrated by the fans and not rated at all by the experts?

judicata
10-17-2010, 02:49 AM
You cannot reason with the unreasonable. I think Josh is unproven but he has never had a shortage of potential. I also so think Tyler is very effective, but always fails the eyeball test. He looks ugly, but gets it done. We will see how it plays out. That is why the play the ****ing games.

righteouscool
10-17-2010, 03:11 AM
This thread is incredibly annoying to read. They are both average to below average power forwards that offer different things the Pacers can use at the moment. Why does one have to be specifically better than the other?

Unclebuck
10-17-2010, 07:15 AM
This thread is incredibly annoying to read. They are both average to below average power forwards that offer different things the Pacers can use at the moment. Why does one have to be specifically better than the other?

Yeah that was my basic pont about 5 pages back when I feared this would turn into a Josh vs Tyler discussion

Mackey_Rose
10-17-2010, 09:36 AM
Yeah that was my basic pont about 5 pages back when I feared this would turn into a Josh vs Tyler discussion

I don't agree. McRoberts is an above average complement to the starting group. Hansbrough could be an above average scoring punch off the bench.

This thread had not turned into a Josh vs. Tyler thread so much as it has an AlexAustin making ridiculous claims versus the world thread.

I would still like to hear your opinion in the matter from a few pages back however. Just because the thread has devolved from where you had hoped, that is no reason to discount all discussion as non-worthwhile. Seems like it would be in the best interest of the board to continue the discussion more reasonably with people who don't have the extreme biases that AlexAustin is so blinded by.

D-BONE
10-17-2010, 09:48 AM
Hard to say who's better JM or TH right now. Hard to say if either could eventually develop into a serviceable, long-term, starting option for us at the 4. Personally, without having significant material for observation in authentic, big-minute roles, I wouldn't anoint either one the starting 4 of the future. Honestly, think, currently, both strike me more as a good off-the-bench option.

Based on what we have to go on currently, I think JM gets the initial nod at starting PF, Tyler the backup. Then let their performances dictate any adjustment to that and, in the longer-term discussion, inform us how seriously we need to be pursuing external PF acquisitions.

I think their skill sets complement one another well. Both good energy, Tyler a little thicker and perhaps more of a banger. Maybe more effective guarding traditional post-up guys in that he can try to force them off the block. Josh a little more athletic overall, perhaps more of a stretch 4 candidate who would defend well off the ball as far as shot blocking. Both seem capable of running the floor. Tyler may end up being better on the boards. I need to see more, but even so, Josh I think will be able to contribute enough rebounding not to be a liability.

Hibbert
10-17-2010, 10:54 AM
This year as in Preseason? Josh will not have better Per-36 during the regular season and he does do some things OK but nothing like what you are trying to make it out to be because if he did teams would see value in him.

Teams do see value in him. Google Josh McRoberts. Why is there an article from every major sports network about him and his progress and how the starting 4 spot is his to lose and Jim O'Brien even quoted saying he does not see him losing it this year? We have 2 very good and young PF's and we need them both to stay healthy. With Tyler coming back from missing most of last year I can easily see Josh as our starter, Tyler is rusty and he needs time to adjust. Both players will get solid minutes but Josh is the starter and he earned it. If Tyler proves this year that he should start, Im sure he will. I like both players quite a bit, but I like Josh's game better. I really like Tyler off the bench and can see him having a great season is doing so. He is very high energy and he has a lot of heart. You can say what you want to about Josh but I'm sure as the season goes along and if your a real fan he will surprise you and just maybe you can see why us fans are excited.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02xN9575fb8HQ/610x.jpg
Indiana Pacers' Josh McRobert's grabs a rebound from Minnesota Timberwolves' Kevin Love. AP Photo

Lance George
10-17-2010, 01:20 PM
Google Josh McRoberts. Why is there an article from every major sports network about him Probably because his starter-by-default status has made the former #1 ranked high school player in the country semi-relevant in the world of basketball since, well, he was the #1 ranked high school player in the country. His post-H.S. career has been six -years of epic fail. Two years of massive disappointment at Duke, a year of being a sub-par NBDL player and three years of being a 12th man for lousy NBA teams. That we have people ignoring this perennial failure and declaring his greatness based on preseason averages of 7 & 7 strikes me as borderline insanity (or just irrational wishful thinking coupled with an extreme hometown bias).

Hibbert
10-17-2010, 01:30 PM
Probably because his starter-by-default status has made the former #1 ranked high school player in the country semi-relevant in the world of basketball since, well, he was the #1 ranked high school player in the country. His post-H.S. career has been six -years of epic fail.

So your not happy for the guy now? Tyler is considered one of the best college basketball players to ever play in NCAA and now him and Josh are on the same team. Who is starting now in 2010-11?

BringJackBack
10-17-2010, 01:52 PM
That we have people ignoring this perennial failure and declaring his greatness based on preseason averages of 7 & 7 strikes me as borderline insanity (or just irrational wishful thinking coupled with an extreme hometown bias).

We have people ignoring Tyler's .360 fg% and declaring his greatness based on COLLEGE when COLLEGE is 100% different from the PROS. His greatness is also declared by 8 points his rookie season. 8 points and four rebounds and someone being obsessed with him strikes me as borderline insanity (or just irrational wishful thinking coupled with extreme, extreme, extreme college bias).

Man I'm getting sick of this. I thought Tyler would be starting over Josh too but is pretty damn clear that Josh has gotten leaps and bounds better over his sophomore season. You guys are Tyler fans more than Pacers fans. Can't you guys just be happy that Tyler is on the floor playing as opposed to being injured with vertigo???

Lance George
10-17-2010, 02:00 PM
So your not happy for the guy now? Tyler is considered one of the best college basketball players to ever play in NCAA and now him and Josh are on the same team. Who is starting now in 2010-11? Happy for him for doing what? Being our best completely healthy returning power forward, and thus being named the starter by default? I'll be happy for him (and the Pacers) when he shows me he's earned his starting position instead of being given it out of necessity.

Day-V
10-17-2010, 02:19 PM
Happy for him for doing what? Being our best completely healthy returning power forward, and thus being named the starter by default? I'll be happy for him (and the Pacers) when he shows me he's earned his starting position instead of being given it out of necessity.

So you're saying he's better than Tyler? Because Tyler was given full clearance to play and is now fully healthy.

spazzxb
10-17-2010, 02:40 PM
McBob has the following attributes that are better than Tyler and many are why he is starting:

1) Longer and more athletic. Hibbert needs paired with an athlete. Tyler is not bad, but he does not play above the rim the way Josh does.

2) Better defender. His main advantage is help-side defense. McBob does that very clearly better than Tyler.

3) The ball does not stick to his hands. In our motion offense, you want the ball moving between your best players. You want Danny, Collison and Hibbert to be making the plays on offense. Josh is the better passer. Tyler tends to hold the ball and attempt to score one-on-one.

4) McBob rebounds better.




5) The starting unit needs a garbage guy who isn't looking to score all the time. A guy that gets in the passing lanes, follows up an errant shot, etc. This better describes McBob.


Edit: As Hicks implies, McBob is the more capable ball handler and passer. Another advantage is that McBob seems to be mentally quick. I don't think Tyler or Granger can make decisions with the ball that quickly.

really you have seen nothing to compare mental quickness, your taking your support a bit far.

spazzxb
10-17-2010, 02:46 PM
We have people ignoring Tyler's .360 fg% and declaring his greatness based on COLLEGE when COLLEGE is 100% different from the PROS. His greatness is also declared by 8 points his rookie season. 8 points and four rebounds and someone being obsessed with him strikes me as borderline insanity (or just irrational wishful thinking coupled with extreme, extreme, extreme college bias).

Man I'm getting sick of this. I thought Tyler would be starting over Josh too but is pretty damn clear that Josh has gotten leaps and bounds better over his sophomore season. You guys are Tyler fans more than Pacers fans. Can't you guys just be happy that Tyler is on the floor playing as opposed to being injured with vertigo???
actually it was his third season, however after playing 1 year at Duke last year still would have been his senior year in college. I believe he is still a couple years younger than Tyler and alot of people do overlook how young he is. I am glad to have him but his biggest issue (effecting his carear to this point was that he came out for the draft to early not lack of potential.

Lance George
10-17-2010, 02:52 PM
So you're saying he's better than Tyler? Because Tyler was given full clearance to play and is now fully healthy. Tyler said himself that he wasn't at full health/strength during his post-game interview with Mark and Slick Friday night.

xBulletproof
10-17-2010, 02:55 PM
Hey guess what?

The Pacers won.

Sookie
10-17-2010, 03:28 PM
I don't quite understand what the argument is.

It's not debatable that Josh is better than Tyler right now.

Then we add in the fact that he's actually playing really well, and we probably need Tyler's offense off the bench.

And the truth is, both of them, will be at best, a fringe starter. And we need both to step up this season.

I don't understand those rooting against one or the other, though.

vnzla81
10-17-2010, 03:34 PM
Is also true that if the Pacers have a chance to trade this two guys for an already proben power forward(Horford,Nene,Varejao,etc) they would do it in a heartbeat.

Lance George
10-17-2010, 03:43 PM
It's not debatable that Josh is better than Tyler right now. It's not debatable on Planet Sookie, but here in the real world it's very debatable, hence the debate.

Lance George
10-17-2010, 03:55 PM
Josh is the better player now. I never said Tyler wasn't good. There is more to this game than scoring. Tyler will score more than Josh. But that's the only thing he does better. I like Tyler the Pacer. I don't care about his or anyone else's college career. Tyler's also been a better rebounder, is light years better at drawing fouls, and will probably be the better defender based on superior desire, intelligence and strength. I'll take those attributes over McRoberts' superior passing, ball handling and three-point shooting, which, as we saw with Troy Murphy, doesn't always translate to winning basketball.

Sookie
10-17-2010, 03:57 PM
It's not debatable on Planet Sookie, but here in the real world it's very debatable, hence the debate.

Fine, if you've actually watched the games without college/highschool biases that seem to be carried throughout this "debate" there's an obvious answer over which player is better, right now.

Seriously, name one thing that Tyler clearly has done better, other than shooting free throws?
Does he handle the ball better, no.
Does he pass the ball better, no.
Does he rebound better, no.
Does he defend better, no.
Does he score better, this is the only area that you could argue. But Josh's percentage is better, and he's more versitile. Advantage Josh.

Hans, has not played better than Josh. He does not fit in as well with the starters as Josh, right now. So where's the argument?

Personally I don't see one. And once again, I'm completely unbiased when it comes to these two. And last season I would have, without a doubt, said Tyler was better, but it's not true so far this season.

spazzxb
10-17-2010, 03:58 PM
It's not debatable on Planet Sookie, but here in the real world it's very debatable, hence the debate.

It isn't really a debate when people are just trashing one player or the other, sometimes both. I feel we should just be happy that we have two young guys both making viable efforts to earn a spot of need. They both are looking impressive and a true pacers fan has nothing to be upset about. Some people make logical arguments (best fit), however the theme of this thread is something far more juvenile.

Hicks
10-17-2010, 04:35 PM
It's not debatable on Planet Sookie, but here in the real world it's very debatable, hence the debate.

This stuff hurts the board.

Hibbert
10-17-2010, 04:39 PM
Tyler's also been a better rebounder, is light years better at drawing fouls, and will probably be the better defender based on superior desire, intelligence and strength. I'll take those attributes over McRoberts' superior passing, ball handling and three-point shooting, which, as we saw with Troy Murphy, doesn't always translate to winning basketball.

You have dirrhea of the mouth. Your just trying to find a reason to argue that Tyler is better than Josh. I happen to think otherwise but who cares? Your being very ignorant here. Troy Murphy has terrible ball handling and has never been known as a superior passer in this league. Hansbrough is not a better rebounder in this league than Josh. I'll prove it for you with actual facts, something you need to learn. Through 90 minutes of preseason basketball(yes preseason), Josh McRoberts has 30 rebounds. Through 73 minutes Tyler Hansbrough has a lousy 15. This is now and this is where they are at now up against NBA talent. Do I need to mention Josh has gone up against starters, good ones, Kevin Love and Zach Randolph, while Tyler has gone up against bench players, none worth noting at all. Josh has made a major improvement and Tyler has regressed due to his "injury" last year, if that's what you classify it as. Josh is the starter Tyler is riding the bench, get used to it. If Murphy is so bad and Tyler is so great at everything he does in every aspect than why didn't Tyler start for us last year over bum Murphy? Keep talking, try to make sense next time though.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 04:40 PM
It's not debatable that Josh is better than Tyler right now.

I think you mean its not even debatable that Josh is more healthy, because if Tyler was 100% he would be starting!

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 04:42 PM
actually it was his third season, however after playing 1 year at Duke last year still would have been his senior year in college. I believe he is still a couple years younger than Tyler and alot of people do overlook how young he is. I am glad to have him but his biggest issue (effecting his carear to this point was that he came out for the draft to early not lack of potential.

Josh played 2 years at Duke

pacer4ever
10-17-2010, 04:43 PM
Josh played 2 years at Duke

he is 23 tyler is 24

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 04:44 PM
So you're saying he's better than Tyler? Because Tyler was given full clearance to play and is now fully healthy.

Being cleared to play and still playing it safe are two different things, when they feel he is out of the woods and fully up to speed Hans will be starting.

pacer4ever
10-17-2010, 04:46 PM
Fine, if you've actually watched the games without college/highschool biases that seem to be carried throughout this "debate" there's an obvious answer over which player is better, right now.

Seriously, name one thing that Tyler clearly has done better, other than shooting free throws?
Does he handle the ball better, no.
Does he pass the ball better, no.
Does he rebound better, no.
Does he defend better, no.
Does he score better, this is the only area that you could argue. But Josh's percentage is better, and he's more versitile. Advantage Josh.

Hans, has not played better than Josh. He does not fit in as well with the starters as Josh, right now. So where's the argument?

Personally I don't see one. And once again, I'm completely unbiased when it comes to these two. And last season I would have, without a doubt, said Tyler was better, but it's not true so far this season.

These are dead on assements from what we have seen so far. Anyone who disagree's doesnt watch the games or is bias.

Hibbert
10-17-2010, 04:50 PM
I think you mean its not even debatable that Josh is more healthy, because if Tyler was 100% he would be starting!


Being cleared to play and still playing it safe are two different things, when they feel he is out of the woods and fully up to speed Hans will be starting.

But hey buddy Tyler is 100% healthy. Josh is still starting, Tyler is not. Why would the Pacers have to play it safe with the great Physco T? Tyler will never be as up to speed as Josh, he's too quick!

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 04:51 PM
We have people ignoring Tyler's .360 fg% and declaring his greatness based on COLLEGE when COLLEGE is 100% different from the PROS. His greatness is also declared by 8 points his rookie season. 8 points and four rebounds and someone being obsessed with him strikes me as borderline insanity (or just irrational wishful thinking coupled with extreme, extreme, extreme college bias).

He did shoot bad last year but he also missed all of training camp and learned the NBA game on the fly with vertigo so it seems silly to think he a 36% shooter.

Tyler finished with better numbers than Josh so if you knock people calling Hans better for 8.5 and 4.8 rookie year while hurt and call it insanity what is it called for people who like Josh who is 3 years deep in his NBA carrer and doesn't have those numbers?

xBulletproof
10-17-2010, 04:52 PM
Okie, it's time to ignore this thread. This stupidity has run it's course.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 04:57 PM
But hey buddy Tyler is 100% healthy. Josh is still starting, Tyler is not. Why would the Pacers have to play it safe with the great Physco T? Tyler will never be as up to speed as Josh, he's too quick!

You must be one dumb guy or completely in love with Josh. Tyler is cleared but he isn't 100% he just got into taking contact while others have been doing it all summer. Josh the only option as the starter right so lets not act like he won the job. I'm not a I told you so kind of guy but I have a feeling I might become one when Josh loses his default starting role after all this silly comment on a player nobody wants.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 04:59 PM
he is 23 tyler is 24

Whats your point? Josh has 2 and a half more years of NBA practices and he still isn't better.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 05:02 PM
Fine, if you've actually watched the games without college/highschool biases that seem to be carried throughout this "debate" there's an obvious answer over which player is better, right now.

Seriously, name one thing that Tyler clearly has done better, other than shooting free throws?
Does he handle the ball better, no.
Does he pass the ball better, no.
Does he rebound better, no.
Does he defend better, no.
Does he score better, this is the only area that you could argue. But Josh's percentage is better, and he's more versitile. Advantage Josh.

Hans, has not played better than Josh. He does not fit in as well with the starters as Josh, right now. So where's the argument?

Personally I don't see one. And once again, I'm completely unbiased when it comes to these two. And last season I would have, without a doubt, said Tyler was better, but it's not true so far this season.

If he does all that why has he spent 3 years on the bench as a 2nd round pick and the other one was a Lottery pick? Odd guys who work in the game see Tyler as having more value. If they had cut one of the 2 who would they pick and if both were FA who would get signed first?

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 05:07 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02xN9575fb8HQ/610x.jpg
Indiana Pacers' Josh McRobert's grabs a rebound from Minnesota Timberwolves' Kevin Love. AP Photo

Josh got a preseason rebound with Love and the photo so that proves his value, Tyler got one over Dwight Howard when it counted so should he be an ALL Star? If preseason stats mean anything now Memphis should win the NBA title because their starting 5 is great and their bench has been smashing people after having one of the leagues worst last year.

Peck
10-17-2010, 05:14 PM
First of all officially cut out the insults from one poster to another. It is ok to disagree, to a point, but we do not allow it to devolve into name calling or accusations.

Second of all, unofficially, are we really arguing over which Pacer is worse than the other? Is it really about that or something else?

Third, officially unofficial, can't we all just agree that it's nice not to have to see Troy Murphy stand at the three point line?

tsm612
10-17-2010, 05:18 PM
And to think, this is an 18 page thread of b******* following a PRESEASON WIN. It's gonna be a long season.

Hicks
10-17-2010, 05:27 PM
You have dirrhea of the mouth.

I'll prove it for you with actual facts, something you need to learn.

Keep talking, try to make sense next time though.

This stuff hurts the board.

Sookie
10-17-2010, 05:28 PM
First of all officially cut out the insults from one poster to another. It is ok to disagree, to a point, but we do not allow it to devolve into name calling or accusations.

Second of all, unofficially, are we really arguing over which Pacer is worse than the other? Is it really about that or something else?

Third, officially unofficial, can't we all just agree that it's nice not to have to see Troy Murphy stand at the three point line?

No, they're arguing about colleges.

Hicks
10-17-2010, 05:30 PM
You must be one dumb guy or completely in love with Josh.

This stuff hurts the board.

judicata
10-17-2010, 05:45 PM
You people don't know how to argue.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 06:00 PM
This stuff hurts the board.

I agree, sorry

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 06:02 PM
No, they're arguing about colleges.

Their college careers wouldn't even be up for a debate since ones a footnote and the other is a collegiate icon.

vnzla81
10-17-2010, 06:04 PM
Their college careers wouldn't even be up for a debate since ones a footnote and the other is a collegiate icon.

Who cares about what they did in college? lest wait until they do something in the NBA and we can talk about who is better than who, can we do that please?

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 06:08 PM
Who cares about what they did in college? lest wait until they do something in the NBA and we can talk about who is better than who, can we do that please?

Who does care about what they did in college? Everyone knows how that went so no reason to debate it that's why I said it has noting to do with college.

vnzla81
10-17-2010, 06:11 PM
Who does care about what they did in college? Everyone knows how that went so no reason to debate it that's why I said it has noting to do with college.

But you keep mentioning college.

AlexAustin
10-17-2010, 06:19 PM
But you keep mentioning college.

Keep would make it seem like I have said it a lot?

spazzxb
10-17-2010, 06:22 PM
Whats your point? Josh has 2 and a half more years of NBA practices and he still isn't better.

thanks for the correction and the guy who mentioned he played 2 years of college ball. I was just trying to point out how young the guy is and add perspective to the first three years of Mcroberts career. How much older doesn't really matter just that people realize that Josh is growing up in the NBA and that he is different than your typical third year player when viewed through historical statistics. It isn't the rookie vs. the vet, these are both young guys with room to grow. Ultimately there are minutes available for both of them.

15th parallel
10-17-2010, 10:13 PM
Sheesh...the departure of Troy have some serious negative effect on you people...

Maybe we should bring him back to bring peace to PD land... :D

15th parallel
10-17-2010, 10:20 PM
I think it is still premature to tell who's better than the other. Simply because they are yet to prove themselves in the NBA level. Josh has been at the end of the bench for his whole tenure at the NBA, while Tyler had a cut short rookie season due to injuries and illness.

For me, I don't care who starts. The only thing that matters is while they are being given minutes to play, they must produce on both ends of the floor to contribute to more wins this season, or the coming seasons should they stay as Pacers players.

Let's just watch the games during the season and from there let's use their production to tell who's better than the other.

Scot Pollard
10-18-2010, 02:54 PM
hey is mcroberts left handed or right handed?

he shoots left handed, but dunks right handed all the time and he throws the ball right handed. he's very unusual.

what hand does he wright with if anybodys gotten an autograph from him in person?

cordobes
10-18-2010, 05:15 PM
What caught my eye in this game was Paul George's excellent defense on Chris Paul for a couple of possessions. I think he's going to be okay defending both wing positions once he gains experience+reputation. Very quick for his length.

I hope Pops beats Joe Alexander for that roster spot with the Hornets. Both are poor players, but Alexander can be really annoying.

pacer4ever
10-18-2010, 05:34 PM
What caught my eye in this game was Paul George's excellent defense on Chris Paul for a couple of possessions. I think he's going to be okay defending both wing positions once he gains experience+reputation. Very quick for his length.

I hope Pops beats Joe Alexander for that roster spot with the Hornets. Both are poor players, but Alexander can be really annoying.

ya that what a couple of us noticed about PG24. He shut down Chris when he was guarding him.

90'sNBARocked
10-18-2010, 05:39 PM
What caught my eye in this game was Paul George's excellent defense on Chris Paul for a couple of possessions. I think he's going to be okay defending both wing positions once he gains experience+reputation. Very quick for his length.

I hope Pops beats Joe Alexander for that roster spot with the Hornets. Both are poor players, but Alexander can be really annoying.

Alexander has no real basketball skills

Buddinger went to the second round and can whipe the floor with this "athlete"