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PacersPride
10-09-2010, 09:47 PM
hey all.. as bad as the 2nd half was, didnt get to see the first; this is still preseason. alot of new guys as well.. considering PG, LS, Rolle, and DC.. then guys returing like Foster, Hans, and Dun.. its gonna take a little bit of time to iron things out.

not too worried about a preseason loss. still think JOB sucks but thats a broken record at this time..

Go Pacers!

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 09:53 PM
im sick of "wait till next year"

This piece of garbage masking as a coach simply zaps any enthusiasm you once had

This is gonna be a long fkin season

me 2 but we have been rebuliding for 3 yrs. Last yr we should have tanked to get a shot at a francise player. Look how OKC has been rebuliding 2nd pick in the draft 5th pick then 3rd pick 11th this year of course you will get better because you are getting better talent. Im tired of us picking at 13 when we are rebuliding. So either win now and make the playoffs or really rebulid by playing the younger guys. But i dont want us to win 35gms and pick 13th again playing posey and solo and Djones and our young guys not seeing the floor.

judicata
10-09-2010, 09:55 PM
They got beat.

The only lineup to not get beat was
Price
Dun
George
Posey
Foster



It matters an awful lot who that lineup was playing against.

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 09:57 PM
It matters an awful lot who that lineup was playing against.

the rockets have 10 good players thats all i will say

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 09:58 PM
Remember what happened last year, when we killed the Nuggets? Imagine what their fans were thinking.

And then remember what happened the next game.

This isn't the NFL where teams are very consistent. Things change from game to game.

Remember when Celtics beat Cleveland in Cleveland? Then remember what happened the next game? Then remember what the Celtics did for the rest of the Playoffs?

When the regular season rolls around, Danny will be back to his beast mode status, Roy won't have to face DH, Yao, and Houstons other defensive pests, and DC will be playing more than 24 mpg.

Sookie
10-09-2010, 09:59 PM
It matters an awful lot who that lineup was playing against.

The starters came in and got beat by the same players that lineup beat. As I said, I don't know why. As that lineup is old slow and AJ, but tonight, they outhustled Houston, got a lot of offensive rebounds, and were the only ones to not get beat. Would I bet on them to do it again..no..but if we're talking about tonight..that's just what happened.

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 10:00 PM
Remember what happened last year, when we killed the Nuggets? Imagine what their fans were thinking.

And then remember what happened the next game.

This isn't the NFL where teams are very consistent. Things change from game to game.

Remember when Celtics beat Cleveland in Cleveland? Then remember what happened the next game? Then remember what the Celtics did for the rest of the Playoffs?

When the regular season rolls around, Danny will be back to his beast mode status, Roy won't have to face DH, Yao, and Houstons other defensive pests, and DC will be playing more than 24 mpg.

but we have not played good D once this preseason

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:00 PM
With all that said, I do think that Jim does a bad job of getting of conditioned. We have consistently got beat by the 3rd quarter.

Solo and Dahntay also play in the 3rd quarter though.

Sookie
10-09-2010, 10:02 PM
With all that said, I do think that Jim does a bad job of getting of conditioned. We have consistently got beat by the 3rd quarter.

Solo and Dahntay also play in the 3rd quarter though.

Yea, that third quarter lineup was just set up to fail.

I hope we see the end of Posey at the 4 and Lance at the 1 soon..

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 10:02 PM
Remember what happened last year, when we killed the Nuggets? Imagine what their fans were thinking.

And then remember what happened the next game.

This isn't the NFL where teams are very consistent. Things change from game to game.

Remember when Celtics beat Cleveland in Cleveland? Then remember what happened the next game? Then remember what the Celtics did for the rest of the Playoffs?

When the regular season rolls around, Danny will be back to his beast mode status, Roy won't have to face DH, Yao, and Houstons other defensive pests, and DC will be playing more than 24 mpg.

So are the Pacers playing in another league? huh?

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 10:05 PM
Yea, that third quarter lineup was just set up to fail.

I hope we see the end of Posey at the 4 and Lance at the 1 soon..

i think lance could be very good at the SG or SF

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:08 PM
but we have not played good D once this preseason

Now I'm not going to accept lying.

Every first half in the preseason we have played pretty good defense. Heck, against Orlando our first half defense was great.

We get killed when the Jones, Posey, George, and poor AJ are in. AJ is a decent defender, still needs work, but okay. George will be great, but he has no experience, and Jones' and Posey only play good defense when they are not fouling. Which is about 2% of the time. Other than AJ, no one deserves minutes like that (accept for George, but he needs to learn how to get spacing for his shot).

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:09 PM
So are the Pacers playing in another league? huh?

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Hicks
10-09-2010, 10:11 PM
I guess I should just save everyone time, remove the forum, and make pacersdigest.com read a simple black message on a white background "The Pacers have, and will forever continue to suck. Move along."

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 10:12 PM
That doesn't make any sense at all.

DH, Scola and Yao play in the NBA right? why you are saying that Roy does not have to play them.

Psycho T
10-09-2010, 10:12 PM
If McBob could have played tonight the Pacers would have won by 40 at the very least.:rolleyes:

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 10:12 PM
DH, Scola and Yao play in the NBA right? why you are saying that Roy does not have to play them.
LOL LOL

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 10:13 PM
If McBob could have played tonight the Pacers would have won by 40 at the very least.:rolleyes:

lol good one lol love the rolling of the eyes pretty crafty lol

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 10:13 PM
I guess I should just save everyone time, remove the forum, and make pacersdigest.com read a simple black message on a white background "The Pacers have, and will forever continue to suck. Move along."

someone inform me of the meaning behind green font? ive been meaning to ask that for awhile and still somewhat new to the forum.

thank you

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:14 PM
And for all you guys that would predict an under .500 record if we had Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant, and Howard, get this:

When we were killing in SL, you guys just said it was SL.

Now that we are getting killed in preseason, which is about as relevant as SL, you guys say that this is it.

If we were 3-0 right now, you guys would be saying it's just preseason.

It should go both ways.

Justin Tyme
10-09-2010, 10:15 PM
If pre-season is any indication of how the season will be, then it will be a loooong season. Someone on the coaching staff tell Hibbert at 7'2" to quit trying layups... dunk the darn ball! If he's within 5' of the basket, he needs to dunk it. Surely, Walton didn't teach him not to dunk it.

Courtney Lee looked really good. Of course he was my pick at SG over Rush.

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 10:16 PM
And for all you guys that would predict an under .500 record if we had Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant, and Howard, get this:

When we were killing in SL, you guys just said it was SL.

Now that we are getting killed in preseason, which is about as relevant as SL, you guys say that this is it.

If we were 3-0 right now, you guys would be saying it's just preseason.

It should go both ways.

valid point, does anyone think that the back to back had anything to do with no enegry?

Sookie
10-09-2010, 10:16 PM
someone inform me of the meaning behind green font? ive been meaning to ask that for awhile and still somewhat new to the forum.

thank you

Sarcasm

xBulletproof
10-09-2010, 10:16 PM
I didn't see any of the game, but I'm encouraged by Hansbrough's box score. Most because he's making his FT's. Which he didn't do last year. Sign of being comfortable. He's looking like he'll shoot above 30% if he's healthy this year. Woot!

I'm not worried. Strange rotations, and preseason is a mess of lineups. However maybe this will bring expectations back to Earth a little. I still expect this team to win 30-40 games.

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 10:17 PM
If pre-season is any indication of how the season will be, then it will be a loooong season. Someone on the coaching staff tell Hibbert at 7'2" to quit trying layups... dunk the darn ball! If he's within 5' of the basket, he needs to dunk it. Surely, Walton didn't teach him not to dunk it.

maybe he thinks it is back in the day when they outlawed the dunk lol.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:18 PM
If McBob could have played tonight the Pacers would have won by 40 at the very least.:rolleyes:

If I recall, no one has said anything remotely in the area code of saying anything like that in any way.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:19 PM
valid point, does anyone think that the back to back had anything to do with no enegry?

Yeah a little bit considering that they aren't in season condition, but I think McRoberts and Dunleavys energy and passing go a long way in winning games.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:21 PM
DH, Scola and Yao play in the NBA right? why you are saying that Roy does not have to play them.

I worded that wrong.

I'm saying that he'll go against people that aren't DPOY or 7 foot 6. He did fairly well when Scola and Hayes were in, and that's the way it's going to be.

He's 23 years old. As Clyde said tonight, he's far from a finished product.

90'sNBARocked
10-09-2010, 10:22 PM
I guess I should just save everyone time, remove the forum, and make pacersdigest.com read a simple black message on a white background "The Pacers have, and will forever continue to suck. Move along."

I understand you dont like all the negative posts

but it is not us who is making the substitutions, the poor coaching decisions , the constant hyperbole in the media

I think we are all tired of the same old same old

We can search long and deep to try and always pull something positive out of it, but most of us realize , after 3 plus years were headed down the exact same road again

That is both frustrating and depressive

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 10:24 PM
I worded that wrong.

I'm saying that he'll go against people that aren't DPOY or 7 foot 6. He did fairly well when Scola and Hayes were in, and that's the way it's going to be.

He's 23 years old. As Clyde said tonight, he's far from a finished product.

i disagree scola made him look silly a couple times. Just because he was hustling more and had more energy.

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 10:24 PM
I didn't see any of the game, but I'm encouraged by Hansbrough's box score. Most because he's making his FT's. Which he didn't do last year. Sign of being comfortable. He's looking like he'll shoot above 30% if he's healthy this year. Woot!

I'm not worried. Strange rotations, and preseason is a mess of lineups. However maybe this will bring expectations back to Earth a little. I still expect this team to win 30-40 games.

with ya bullet. glad to see Hansbro back on the court, he brings alot of intangibles that help a team to be successful. we may not be nba champ contenders.. but were headed in the right direction.

it would be nice to make the playoffs this year, but most importantly were gonna find out what we need most heading into next offseason.

1) will DC continue to show the potential he showed in NO's? if so we have our future PG.

2) will rush play better with a solid PG (can say that about alot of the players). if rush does not step it up.. we know we need a SG

3) is josh, hans, or anyone else on the roster worthy of being a starter at the position?

those are just a few of the questions that hopefully we be answered.. and with 30 mill or so next offseason, i think we will be good shape going forward.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:24 PM
If pre-season is any indication of how the season will be, then it will be a loooong season. Someone on the coaching staff tell Hibbert at 7'2" to quit trying layups... dunk the darn ball! If he's within 5' of the basket, he needs to dunk it. Surely, Walton didn't teach him not to dunk it.

Courtney Lee looked really good. Of course he was my pick at SG over Rush.

Unfortunately this seems like the year that the game is really beginning to slow down for Rush, taking the mid range and driving.

Too bad he screwed everything up. :shrug:

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 10:26 PM
I guess I should just save everyone time, remove the forum, and make pacersdigest.com read a simple black message on a white background "The Pacers have, and will forever continue to suck. Move along."

Thats what all my friends tell me.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:27 PM
I understand you dont like all the negative posts

but it is not us who is making the substitutions, the poor coaching decisions , the constant hyperbole in the media

I think we are all tired of the same old same old

We can search long and deep to try and always pull something positive out of it, but most of us realize , after 3 plus years were headed down the exact same road again

That is both frustrating and depressive

Everthing is exactly the same as the past three years except now we have talent.

I don't like JOB but it seems impossible to get a team of Murph, TJ, Foster, Granger, and Dunleavy to have any success compared to Collison, Dunleavy, Granger, Roy, and Josh.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 10:30 PM
No, I'd like to not see it again (although I think Dun, AJ, and Hans would be a good second unit. Along with Foster to back up Roy. )

But they fought and took the lead from the Rockets (whereas the starters came back in and lost it again) So for..tonight..they were the best lineup. Just..it's not necessary to let them try it again. ;)

As I said, I think our offense really missed Josh.

And all that said, this isn't a big deal. It's preseason. Yes, they got slaughtered, but it was a back to back, we're missing a starter, and there's an unfamiliarity with this team.

And not to mention..yes, this is a talanted team. But it's also a young team. Which is going to equal inconsitency. Personally, I think Roy wasn't very confident this game, and it showed. Danny was off in la la land. Collison was passive, and I think Aaron Brooks shook him up a bit. But there are going to be some games where they are all playing well together, too.

I agree with everything in this post, this team will have highs and lows this season, but I think (hope?) that it will pay off in the long run, and I still expect them to finish with a better record than last year's group.

flox
10-09-2010, 10:31 PM
Do you guys honestly expect our team to be better or beat the rockets this year?

Just curious.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 10:31 PM
but we have not played good D once this preseason

I'm not as worried about the defense, our defense was better than our offense last year, and we've added some better athletes that I think should make our D better. The D will come.

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 10:32 PM
We can search long and deep to try and always pull something positive out of it, but most of us realize , after 3 plus years were headed down the exact same road again

That is both frustrating and depressive


how so.. lets lighten up here all. what do we expect from a team thats average age is probably 24 or something like that.

were headed down which road? lets keep this in perspective.

DC- 23, Rush-25, Granger-27, Hans-24, Hibbs-24, PG-20, AJ-23, mcbob-24, rolle-24.... and so on

the same road would be reading about tins shooting up indy and trading "thugs" or whatever terminology you want to substitute with. whats kinda depressive is the unfounded negativity. were not miami and able to sign a bron bron and bosh.. or even the colts and get to draft 18.

yes we coulda tanked last offseason.. but w/e. i like the direction were headed in, and have beaucoup cap space this coming offseason.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:33 PM
i disagree scola made him look silly a couple times. Just because he was hustling more and had more energy.

Yeah, Scola played good but he's the same guy who averaged 27 ppg at the Worlds.

Hibbert also can't guard a PnP at all. I want to see him make the undersized guys pay for their PnP by him getting in the low post and manhandling them, which didn't happen.

Your making fair basketball arguments but I'm sick of seeing other guys who are here just to ridicule the people that have emotions attached to this team.

Sookie
10-09-2010, 10:35 PM
Do you guys honestly expect our team to be better or beat the rockets this year?

Just curious.

No

If the rockets stay healthy, I think it's completely possible for them to be top 3 in the West this season (with the Lakers and OKC as my top 2)

Yao..and Jesus..Aaron Brooks is GOOD. Then there's Kmart and that blonde guy..and Scola.. They are a fragile team though.

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 10:36 PM
Do you guys honestly expect our team to be better or beat the rockets this year?

Just curious.

if i say YES would you believe me.? in the NBA anything can happen but i wouldnt expect to get blown out either. my response has nothing with tonights preseason game.. its preseason.. just stating my opinion.

truthfully, i think we could beat them once and split the series.

*edit

there are only a few teams in this league that are unbeatable 90% of the time (by that i mean when they play hard).. heat, lakers, magic, celts.. and perhaps one or two others.

outside of yao the team is not spectacular. and i would hope that hibbs can contain yao to some degree. again.. i see no reason why this team cannot win 40, even with the youth.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 10:36 PM
Do you guys honestly expect our team to be better or beat the rockets this year?

Just curious.

No.

Houston makes a whole lot with nothing with Adelman and Morey, and now they have their guy back. This is my underrated team this year.

Martin back to finally being healthy along with scrappy defense, and a very confident Luis Scola, not to mention Aaron Brooks and Yao Ming's awesomeness.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 10:37 PM
If McBob could have played tonight the Pacers would have won by 40 at the very least.:rolleyes:

It's pretty clear he's a better fit next to Roy, now I know you're a UNC fan so this is tough for you to accept, but Tyler is much better of the bench for us. Josh does a great job spacing the court because of his shooting, passing, and ball handling. Tyler is a good player, but he clogs the lane too much and it's easier to collapse on Roy.

flox
10-09-2010, 10:37 PM
if i say YES would you believe me.? in the NBA anything can happen but i wouldnt expect to get blown out either. my response has nothing with tonights preseason game.. its preseason.. just stating my opinion.

truthfully, i think we could beat them once and split the series.

Will we end with a better record?

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 10:40 PM
I understand you dont like all the negative posts

but it is not us who is making the substitutions, the poor coaching decisions ,

You're right based off preseason game 3 we can clearly know our substitution patterns. I fully expect JOB to start every second half with Collison, DJones, Rush, Hans, and Solo. He will bring Josh, Danny, and Roy off the bench in the second half just for ****s and giggles. :rolleyes:

As far as "most of us" speak for yourself.

90'sNBARocked
10-09-2010, 10:40 PM
Everthing is exactly the same as the past three years except now we have talent.

I don't like JOB but it seems impossible to get a team of Murph, TJ, Foster, Granger, and Dunleavy to have any success compared to Collison, Dunleavy, Granger, Roy, and Josh.

possible yes, PROBABLE no

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 10:48 PM
Will we end with a better record?

depends on the health of yao of course but if they stay healthy its not likely. trust me.. i see your point. my point is we beat teams like the lakers, celts, and others two seasons ago, and i think this current pacers team is better, but not by much.

the pacers were not healthy at all last year, granger missed 20, dun, hans, foster out for the entire season. if we have all players available, in addition to the rooks this team is capable of winning 40.

if JOB is worth a darn as a coach he will get this team to 40 wins. i know this is percieved as very optimistic but i think we won like 32 last year.. with all the additions mentioned above 40 is realistic imho.

McKeyFan
10-09-2010, 10:53 PM
I guess I should just save everyone time, remove the forum, and make pacersdigest.com read a simple black message on a white background "The Pacers have, and will forever continue to suck. Move along."

If the part in quotes said, "The Pacers need a new coach," you wouldn't have needed the green.

flox
10-09-2010, 10:53 PM
depends on the health of yao of course but if they stay healthy its not likely. trust me.. i see your point. my point is we beat teams like the lakers, celts, and others two seasons ago, and i think this current pacers team is better, but not by much.

the pacers were not healthy at all last year, granger missed 20, dun, hans, foster out for the entire season. if we have all players available, in addition to the rooks this team is capable of winning 40.

if JOB is worth a darn as a coach he will get this team to 40 wins. i know this is percieved as very optimistic but i think we won like 32 last year.. with all the additions mentioned above 40 is realistic imho.

Any upgrade we got with collison at the point (looking small so far) is offset by what we lost with Murphy (looking medium so far)

ChristianDudley
10-09-2010, 10:55 PM
I missed the game and read all 12 pages in this thread and it got worse and worse as I read unfortunately. Man do I miss Josh McRoberts. Yes, I think he would have made SOME type of difference tonight, actually.

xBulletproof
10-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Wow, 90's ... I'd just delete that. Bit much.

flox
10-09-2010, 10:58 PM
:buddies::console:

I feel like I'm playing the wolf game again

Unclebuck
10-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Preseason wins and losses mean very little, wait let me re-phrase, wins and losses mean nothing, I thought all Colts fans knew that. I liked what I saw out of Hanbrough tonight.

Training camp and preseason is a 4 week process teams use it to get ready for regular season games, teams don't use to get ready for preseason games. Plus the intensity is several levels below regular season. I've learned over the years that preseason games are meaningless as a precursor for how good a team is going to be.

I just think some of you are making yourself miserable over nothing.

this is a 37-41 win team whether they lose every preseason game by 40 points or win every preseason game by 40 points.

I only watch the games especially early to see how the new guys look and see how healthy some of the recovering players are.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 10:59 PM
Wow, 90's ... I'd just delete that. Bit much.

I think the part that's most hilarious is that I'm the one with a confronting attitude even though all I did was disagree with him, then he goes on to call me a *****. That's an olive branch if I've ever seen one!

flox
10-09-2010, 11:00 PM
Preseason wins and losses mean very little, wait let me re-phrase, wins and losses mean nothing, I thought all Colts fans knew that. I liked what I saw out of Hanbrough tonight.

Training camp and preseason is a 4 week process teams use it to get ready for regular season games, teams don't use to get ready for preseason games. Plus the intensity is several levels below regular season. I've learned over the years that preseason games are meaningless as a precursor for how good a team is going to be.

I just think some of you are making yourself miserable over nothing.

this is a 37-41 win team whether they loose every preseason game by 40 points or win every preseason game by 40 points.

As always a solid dose of reality delivered by UB.

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 11:01 PM
Any upgrade we got with collison at the point (looking small so far) is offset by what we lost with Murphy (looking medium so far)

im gonna wait until the regular season before i make any concrete evaluations of this team. on paper, 40 is what i expect.

i like murph, but absolutely hated his game. in 3 years or however long he was here i think i could count on one hand the number of times he posted up. maybe thats murphs game, or JOB's preference.. either or i dont care cause a PF is meant to play in the paint. im looking forward to seeing how well mcbob plays, and even if he nvr posts up.. i expect some defense out of him.. which is a major upgrade over murph by any standards.

again.. lets re-evaluate after say 20 games the impact of acquiring DC, and trading away murph.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 11:04 PM
I honestly don't think Josh and Tyler are that big of a downgrade from Troy if they are both healthy.

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 11:04 PM
this is a 25-30 win team whether they lose every preseason game by 40 points or win every preseason game by 40 points.
.


fixed

flox
10-09-2010, 11:06 PM
this is a 25-30 win team whether they lose every preseason game by 40 points or win every preseason game by 40 points only because jim obrien makes them overachieve.
.

fixed.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 11:08 PM
Any upgrade we got with collison at the point (looking small so far) is offset by what we lost with Murphy (looking medium so far)

Well, I am one of the guys that think that Murph is addition by subraction when we lost him, so were already there but..

Watson averaged 7 points and 5 assists. If Collison does better than that, that is an upgrade. I think he'll be closer to 15 and 5 with very good shooting and good tempo, so I personally think it will be alot better.

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 11:08 PM
And for those now saying that because Josh did not play the Pacers got blow out you must be kidding right? he comes from sitting on the bench last year and the year before to the team MVP? really?

flox
10-09-2010, 11:10 PM
And for those now saying that because Josh did not play the Pacers got blow out you must be kidding right? he comes from sitting on the bench last year and the year before to the team MVP? really?

Agreed

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 11:10 PM
If I were you though, I wouldn't pay attention to people that say things that don't make sense that aren't backed up by facts (and about 99% of the time don't support facts).

Just let them be.

It's sad to me that it's no longer about the Pacers, it's now just about Jim O'Brien or Not Jim O'Brien. It's like no one else is even part of the squad anymore.

If a player does something poor, it's because JOB is a bad coach.

If a player does something good, we can't discuss whether they will keep doing it because either JOB will put a stop to them doing this good thing or JOB shouldn't let them do this good thing in the first place (I.E. Josh improving his jump shots)

The threads are never about the Pacers and the players anymore. It's always about the coach. You can't even hold a conversation anymore without someone showing up and saying "JOB is the devil/worst coach ever/etc.".

And it's pretty well recorded that I'm not even a JOB fan, but I don't blame him for everything, and I would like to have a conversation about Pacers players that doesn't inevitably end up being about JOB.

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 11:10 PM
fixed

i think a thread stating how many games each fan here expects the pacers to win this year is necessary once this season begins. we have the negative nellies (lol, jk y'all); and optimistic fans like myself.. if ya can say winning 40 is optmistic anyways.

this way we can all look back and pinpoint the darksiders as i think it as known as on this forum.. hell they may be right.. but if JOB can coach, and this team is healthy overall.. 40 wins is realistic.

how anyone thinks we go back to the 25 win range is beyond me. and if it does happen than JOB has to be gone, and if he isnt im gonna commit blasphemy and call for Birds resignation.

flox
10-09-2010, 11:11 PM
It's sad to me that it's no longer about the Pacers, it's now just about Jim O'Brien or Not Jim O'Brien. It's like no one else is even part of the squad anymore.

If a player does something poor, it's because JOB is a bad coach.

If a player does something good, we can't discuss whether they will keep doing it because either JOB will put a stop to them doing this good thing or JOB shouldn't let them do this good thing in the first place (I.E. Josh improving his jump shots)

The threads are never about the Pacers and the players anymore. It's always about the coach. You can't even hold a conversation anymore without someone showing up and saying "JOB is the devil/worst coach ever/etc.".

And it's pretty well recorded that I'm not even JOB fan, but I don't blame him for everything, and I would like to have a conversation about Pacers players that doesn't inevitably end up being about JOB.

Also agreed. Amen.

Unclebuck
10-09-2010, 11:13 PM
And for those now saying that because Josh did not play the Pacers got blow out you must be kidding right? he comes from sitting on the bench last year and the year before to the team MVP? really?

they are joking

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 11:14 PM
And for those now saying that because Josh did not play the Pacers got blow out you must be kidding right? he comes from sitting on the bench last year and the year before to the team MVP? really?

When you support your claims by facts and quotes, I'll take you more seriously.

When I see where you dig up McRoberts as MVP I'll take you seriously. I also want to see you dig up where anyone said that McRoberts' absence was the sole reason for us losing. I think everyone can agree that it was a number of things that caused us to lose, not just McRoberts.

Lying and stretching the truth is a pet peeve of mine, but so is stubborness. So if you can find a serious quote about those things, I apologise for accusing you of stretching the truth.

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 11:17 PM
they are joking

lol i thoght every 1 knew that lol

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 11:17 PM
It's sad to me that it's no longer about the Pacers, it's now just about Jim O'Brien or Not Jim O'Brien. It's like no one else is even part of the squad anymore.

If a player does something poor, it's because JOB is a bad coach.

If a player does something good, we can't discuss whether they will keep doing it because either JOB will put a stop to them doing this good thing or JOB shouldn't let them do this good thing in the first place (I.E. Josh improving his jump shots)

The threads are never about the Pacers and the players anymore. It's always about the coach. You can't even hold a conversation anymore without someone showing up and saying "JOB is the devil/worst coach ever/etc.".

And it's pretty well recorded that I'm not even a JOB fan, but I don't blame him for everything, and I would like to have a conversation about Pacers players that doesn't inevitably end up being about JOB.

agreed man.. its like a broken record but its true in every way. we have a very young team and a good coach is critical to success this season as well as long term.

this is a make or break season for me in regard to JOB. i like what i saw 2 years ago, but last season was atrocious. i know coach o'brien has not had the talent either.. and injuries have occurred too.. so im giving him the benefit of the doubt. with that said.. he has too lead this team to around 40 wins.. anything less than 35 and you know the story.

with that said, i will drop the JOB statements from my posts to appease you. no worries.

* did not like the stagnation or the flow of the offense i saw tonight (missed the first half).. but its preaseaon so gonna wait before making a final determination.

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Again I understand this is pre-season and everybody was playing so we should not care that they lost but damn but can they put some effort in not trying to get blowout?

I am not freaking out yet but I am a bit worry about the way they are playing.

By the way I am not blaming this one in O'brien :blush: this is more the players fault and the players leader fault(Danny) for not pushing them to play harder.

Sookie
10-09-2010, 11:19 PM
And for those now saying that because Josh did not play the Pacers got blow out you must be kidding right? he comes from sitting on the bench last year and the year before to the team MVP? really?

Josh spreads the floor, something Tyler doesn't do, which makes it easier for Hibbert to score.

Josh brings athleticism and energy on the defensive end. Something Posey doesn't do, and something Tyler doesn't do as much.

Josh brings fantastic passing, which helps with the ball movement, and also helps to get Hibbert involved, something neither Tyler or Posey bring.

And more importantly, Josh being there means Posey doesn't get as many minutes.

Do I think we would have won with Josh? I don't know. Do I think he would have made a difference? Yes. Most definitely. But a lot of things would have made a difference. For example, not throwing the ball away every other trip up the floor..

The game was lost when JOB brought out the third quarter lineup. But who cares. It's preseason. JOB obviously wanted to see something. I think the preseason is more for testing things out, learning to gell, and find a rotation. As the coach, there are things I'm sure that he wants to see. I could come up with a few reasons. (For one, it would seem like that lineup should be pretty good defensively...or, he might have wanted to see if Collison would take over in a group like that..ect..) Regardless, as terrible as I thought JOB was last season, I'm going to give him a chance this season.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 11:19 PM
I'm not even saying we need to stop discussing JOB, it'd just be nice if every conversation that pops up on PD right now didn't automatically turn to JOB.

You could have thread right now like "Danny Granger and Wife have a Child", and it would find a way to turn into a JOB thread.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 11:20 PM
I honestly don't think Josh and Tyler are that big of a downgrade from Troy if they are both healthy.

Well Josh and Mike in the starting lineup brought ball movement and cohesiveness that was similar to what the Celtics do, which is by the way one of the most beautiful offenses I have ever seen. Props to Doc, KG, and Rondo.

You saw the ball move from each side of the court with four playmaking players that play with their heads up: Hibbert, Collison, Dunleavy, and McRoberts. Now I think Danny is trying to distribute more, but he just doesn't have that court vision that I don't have when I play basketball.

I used to spend alot of time watching film and using court vision and I have a good Basketball IQ but when I'm playing, I'm a bad passer.

But that starting lineup was something fresh and nice to see. Everyone was moving and looked involved, and everyone just seemed like they were having fun.

McKeyFan
10-09-2010, 11:21 PM
I
You could have thread right now like "Danny Granger and Wife have a Child", and it would find a way to turn into a JOB thread.
Granger family now "three."

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 11:23 PM
Another good thing from tonight IMO, was that even as we were struggling the ball kept going to Roy. He got the ball a ton when he was on the court. It showed a lot of commitment to him.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 11:24 PM
It's sad to me that it's no longer about the Pacers, it's now just about Jim O'Brien or Not Jim O'Brien. It's like no one else is even part of the squad anymore.

If a player does something poor, it's because JOB is a bad coach.

If a player does something good, we can't discuss whether they will keep doing it because either JOB will put a stop to them doing this good thing or JOB shouldn't let them do this good thing in the first place (I.E. Josh improving his jump shots)

The threads are never about the Pacers and the players anymore. It's always about the coach. You can't even hold a conversation anymore without someone showing up and saying "JOB is the devil/worst coach ever/etc.".

And it's pretty well recorded that I'm not even a JOB fan, but I don't blame him for everything, and I would like to have a conversation about Pacers players that doesn't inevitably end up being about JOB.

Post of the Year candidate.

I don't like JOB either, but this isn't a coaches league.

Just like when we were facing Orlando and we were playing good. Rush and Ford were on the bench and of course everyone has to have someone to complain about. No one's ever happy. You know who got picked on? Quinn Buckner. Amazing.

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 11:26 PM
Josh spreads the floor, something Tyler doesn't do, which makes it easier for Hibbert to score.

Josh brings athleticism and energy on the defensive end. Something Posey doesn't do, and something Tyler doesn't do as much.

Josh brings fantastic passing, which helps with the ball movement, and also helps to get Hibbert involved, something neither Tyler or Posey bring.

And more importantly, Josh being there means Posey doesn't get as many minutes.

Do I think we would have won with Josh? I don't know. Do I think he would have made a difference? Yes. Most definitely. But a lot of things would have made a difference. For example, not throwing the ball away every other trip up the floor..

The game was lost when JOB brought out the third quarter lineup. But who cares. It's preseason. JOB obviously wanted to see something.

im excited to see what mcbob brings to the court this season.. primarily b/c his game is more enjoyable to watch than murphs.

but so help me.. if he turns into a murph clone, ie casting up 3's unconsciously than im gonna be dissapointed. unless of course he hits over 40% or something absurd. just dont want him to get lazy and turn into primarily a jump shooter like our coach apparently wants.. and what seems to have happened to Grangers game.. casting 3's every chance he gets.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 11:26 PM
Quinn Buckner is a really bad announcer. ;)

pacer4ever
10-09-2010, 11:29 PM
Quinn Buckner is a really bad announcer. ;)

mostly all former players are ex: bill walton lol

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 11:30 PM
Walton's an act though. He does his hyperbole on purpose.

PacersPride
10-09-2010, 11:31 PM
Another good thing from tonight IMO, was that even as we were struggling the ball kept going to Roy. He got the ball a ton when he was on the court. It showed a lot of commitment to him.

i noticed that as well, and was happy to see it. were building around hibbs and now is the time to get him established as some sort of post presence.

esp if mcbob turns into murph 2.0; we need someone in the paint who can score.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 11:35 PM
Quinn Buckner is a really bad announcer. ;)

Okay but it seems like when there was no one to ***** about, we all scrambled to find something, or someone, to ***** about.

If we traded or cut all of our bad players, TJ, Rush, Jones', Posey (Juries still out), and then fired JOB and Quinn, we'd still have something to complain about.

Magnum Rolle and Paul George are busts.

Frank Vogel is an idiot.

Tyler Hansbrough is a bum.

Darren Collison isn't the point of the future

Just is ongoing.

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 11:35 PM
they are joking


When you support your claims by facts and quotes, I'll take you more seriously.

When I see where you dig up McRoberts as MVP I'll take you seriously. I also want to see you dig up where anyone said that McRoberts' absence was the sole reason for us losing. I think everyone can agree that it was a number of things that caused us to lose, not just McRoberts.

Lying and stretching the truth is a pet peeve of mine, but so is stubborness. So if you can find a serious quote about those things, I apologise for accusing you of stretching the truth.


Josh spreads the floor, something Tyler doesn't do, which makes it easier for Hibbert to score.

Josh brings athleticism and energy on the defensive end. Something Posey doesn't do, and something Tyler doesn't do as much.

Josh brings fantastic passing, which helps with the ball movement, and also helps to get Hibbert involved, something neither Tyler or Posey bring.
And more importantly, Josh being there means Posey doesn't get as many minutes.

Do I think we would have won with Josh? I don't know. Do I think he would have made a difference? Yes. Most definitely. But a lot of things would have made a difference. For example, not throwing the ball away every other trip up the floor..

The game was lost when JOB brought out the third quarter lineup. But who cares. It's preseason. JOB obviously wanted to see something. I think the preseason is more for testing things out, learning to gell, and find a rotation. As the coach, there are things I'm sure that he wants to see. I could come up with a few reasons. (For one, it would seem like that lineup should be pretty good defensively...or, he might have wanted to see if Collison would take over in a group like that..ect..) Regardless, as terrible as I thought JOB was last season, I'm going to give him a chance this season.

Here we go there is some prove.

Not that I disagree 100% with what she is saying but I don't think that having Josh would have changed anything, the team was still playing a broken down Foster, the slow moving Dunleavy and the old and out of shape Posey plus the new guys that are playing their second game in the NBA Lance,Paul and Rolle.

flox
10-09-2010, 11:37 PM
I think Sookie's points about Josh's strengths over tyler's are accurate.

McKeyFan
10-09-2010, 11:40 PM
Well then, we need to put them both on the court, because Tyler was the only one tonight that looked like half a basketball player.

Can Josh guard threes and we put Granger at the two?

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 11:40 PM
I think Sookie's points about Josh's strengths over tyler's are accurate.

I think both Players complement the Pacers, each guy brings a different game to the team.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 11:43 PM
I think both Players complement the Pacers, each guy brings a different game to the team.

Agreed, but Josh is a better piece with the starters and Tyler is a better piece with the bench.

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 11:48 PM
Agreed, but Josh is a better piece with the starters and Tyler is a better piece with the bench.

I think they could be interchangeable depending of matchups, I would also not mind seeing them playing together once in a while, Tyler is a guy that likes to move a lot and could get a lot of easy passes from Mcbob downlow.

Trader Joe
10-09-2010, 11:51 PM
I just don't think Tyler fits next to Roy. Too easy to collapse on Roy in the post.

Peck
10-09-2010, 11:56 PM
Guys can't there be a middle ground here? Does it absolutely have to be polar opposites one way or the other?

In other words is it not possible to say yes it is pre-season basketball & I completely understand that we did not see rotations, plays and minutes played as they would be in the regular season however what I did see gives me pause to be concerned?

Or can it only be "well it's just pre-season so none of this means a thing" or "OMG the Pacers are going to suck suck suck this year and oh btw Jim O'Brien is the devil".

Sookie
10-09-2010, 11:57 PM
I think they could be interchangeable depending of matchups, I would also not mind seeing them playing together once in a while, Tyler is a guy that likes to move a lot and could get a lot of easy passes from Mcbob downlow.

But you have to also remember that Roy spent the summer playing with Josh next to him. He hasn't had the opportunity to play with Hans too much.

As I said, I'm not saying that we would have won. Just that the game would have been different. The offense would have been different and such..

But essentially the game was lost with the start of the third lineup. (not that we would have won if that hadn't of happened, but we got blown out then..) And as I said, it doesn't matter. I'm sure JOB was just looking at things.

BringJackBack
10-09-2010, 11:58 PM
Here we go there is some prove.

Not that I disagree 100% with what she is saying but I don't think that having Josh would have changed anything, the team was still playing a broken down Foster, the slow moving Dunleavy and the old and out of shape Posey plus the new guys that are playing their second game in the NBA Lance,Paul and Rolle.

Ah yes but you left out this part of what Sookie said:


Do I think we would have won with Josh? I don't know. Do I think he would have made a difference? Yes. Most definitely. But a lot of things would have made a difference. For example, not throwing the ball away every other trip up the floor..

She did not say that McRoberts would have changed everytning and we would have won or anything like that. You said that some here claimed that Josh was the reason we lost. That is a determining factor, but it is a collection of things. Then if you read your second paragraph, you will get my point along with Danny not caring about preseason and Collison and Price not getting the amount of minutes they will get in the regular season.

I challenged you to find someone who said that Josh is the sole reason we lost and that Josh is our MVP. Not a collective reason out of many reasons, which is what I think.

You said that us on PD thought that McRoberts was the only reason we lost. When we actually said that it was a collection of reasons. Then you said that us on PD said that McRoberts was our MVP, which is not true, and I'm sure that no one said anything like that unless if they were kidding around.

However, I think we both agree on this issue. We both think that there are alot of reasons why we lost and not just the absence of McRoberts. Earlier you said the opposite, but it's not a big deal because what you just said contradicts what you said earlier, thus leading me to believe that I took you out of context, or you said something before you thought about it.

vnzla81
10-09-2010, 11:58 PM
I just don't think Tyler fits next to Roy. Too easy to collapse on Roy in the post.

Tyler's jumper at least at this moment is better than Josh(we need to see if Josh can hit a high % of shots), I think both guys complement Hibbert.

BringJackBack
10-10-2010, 12:03 AM
Tyler's jumper at least at this moment is better than Josh(we need to see if Josh can hit a high % of shots), I think both guys complement Hibbert.

Flip a coin. :laugh:

Its really a nice mess we have with all these nice young players. We can't figure out who to start or what with Collison and Price and TH and McRoberts.

Trader Joe
10-10-2010, 12:03 AM
I guess, we'll just have to see. If Tyler is out there he needs to hang out in the mid range more when he is beside Roy.

Sookie
10-10-2010, 12:05 AM
It's not really about the shooting though, with Josh. It's about the passing.

flox
10-10-2010, 12:08 AM
Midrange spacing is not the same as 3pt spacing. Just ask the Spurs what difference McDyess and Bonner makes, or what difference Jefferson and Finley makes.

vnzla81
10-10-2010, 12:09 AM
I guess, we'll just have to see. If Tyler is out there he needs to hang out in the mid range more when he is beside Roy.

That is what we need from him anyway, we don't need him shooting threes, the closes he is to the basket the better chance he has to get a rebound, He just needs to be far enough to give Roy space and don't let him get double team.(the same could be said about Mcbob)

judicata
10-10-2010, 12:10 AM
Josh spreads the floor, something Tyler doesn't do, which makes it easier for Hibbert to score.

Josh brings athleticism and energy on the defensive end. Something Posey doesn't do, and something Tyler doesn't do as much.

Josh brings fantastic passing, which helps with the ball movement, and also helps to get Hibbert involved, something neither Tyler or Posey bring.



Josh does not spread the floor. He has yet to show he is any kind of threat in even the mid-range thus far. Just because he chucked a lot of 3s in training camp and Summer League doesn't mean other teams are going to respect his range in a real game where they will close and put a hand in his face. Tyler has hit the 15 footer in games, something I have not seen Josh do.

Even if I accept your 3 points, you are missing what I consider the most important point: Josh is soft, both mentally and physically. He does not like to bang, he likes to fly. Roy looked physically weak (but very skilled) out there too, and the Pacers need someone pushing bodies around the paint.

I think its funny that mere weeks after the Matador is gone we have fans who want a floor-spreading PF who treats contact like taking out the garbage: an unfortunate necessity.

As for defense, I care a lot more about having a PF that bodies up his man and keeps from from the low post than having an athletic guy who can knock a home run weak-side block into the stands twice a game.

Obviously we value different things in players. I think it is a great luxury to have the kind of fight at this position as they do, and I hope that both prove themselves worthy of the minutes (not just because the Pacers have no other options, either.)

Sookie
10-10-2010, 12:15 AM
Yes, Josh has a perimeter game, not necessarily that much of a shooter, but he's a fantastic passer, he WILL take the shot, and he can drive past opposing defenders.

Josh isn't soft mentally or physically, and I don't know where you go that from. Is he Tyler? No. But I think I've seen two other players in my lifetime that were at Tyler's level (borderline crazy..).

I do think both are the same level of player, they just have different skills, and Josh's skills. Athleticism, defense, perimter passing and ability to spread the floor..benifit Hibbert and the team offense, more so than Hans does (in the starting unit)

Not to mention, this is a young team, and they need to gell and have some cohesiveness to them. Roy and Josh already play well together, so keep them together. I'm in favor of putting Dun and AJ together because they played well together last season. And I think Rush would be a good fit with the starters as well, between Collison being more aggressive and the good ball movement. And last season, Tyler and Foster played well together. So perhaps putting them with the second unit wouldn't be a bad idea.

vnzla81
10-10-2010, 12:18 AM
Midrange spacing is not the same as 3pt spacing. Just ask the Spurs what difference McDyess and Bonner makes, or what difference Jefferson and Finley makes.

If you look at the guys that were playing besides Duncan when they won championships they were not jump shooters in fact Duncan was the one spacing the floor at times while the other guy was inside to get a rebound or a lay up.

I am not sure but I think the guys were Robinson, Oberto, Mohammed and Elson, they used the stretch forwads at times(Horry and others)

BringJackBack
10-10-2010, 12:20 AM
Josh does not spread the floor. He has yet to show he is any kind of threat in even the mid-range thus far. Just because he chucked a lot of 3s in training camp and Summer League doesn't mean other teams are going to respect his range in a real game where they will close and put a hand in his face. Tyler has hit the 15 footer in games, something I have not seen Josh do.

Even if I accept your 3 points, you are missing what I consider the most important point: Josh is soft, both mentally and physically. He does not like to bang, he likes to fly. Roy looked physically weak (but very skilled) out there too, and the Pacers need someone pushing bodies around the paint.

I think its funny that mere weeks after the Matador is gone we have fans who want a floor-spreading PF who treats contact like taking out the garbage: an unfortunate necessity.

As for defense, I care a lot more about having a PF that bodies up his man and keeps from from the low post than having an athletic guy who can knock a home run weak-side block into the stands twice a game.

Obviously we value different things in players. I think it is a great luxury to have the kind of fight at this position as they do, and I hope that both prove themselves worthy of the minutes (not just because the Pacers have no other options, either.)

I don't think that Josh is soft at all.

He rebounds, runs the floor, draws fouls, and defends himself. He is a very emotional player who fouls hard.

A soft player has slow feet, doesn't rebound in traffic, doesn't foul, camps, doesn't play defense, doesn't care if he gets crossed or burnt, all that.

This is like the Pau Gasol thing.

Back then he used to not play good defense, he used to be undecisive, and he used to not rebound in traffic.

Now he does all the opposite. However, he still gets called soft. Why? Because his skill set involves passing and getting others involved along with a mid range game and fadeaways. IMO softness should be based on the little things you do and your demeanor on the court (Vince Carter compared to Paul Pierce in the Playoffs), and not on your style of play (Kevin Garnett or Pau Gasol, they are both going to bring it and you better work your *** off on defense)

No one wants another stretch four camper. But we don't mind a versatile player with good offensive rebounding and great passing and athleticism.

judicata
10-10-2010, 12:36 AM
Softness is determined by the choices a player makes, not merely their style of play. How often they take action that results in discomfort or pain or exhaustion or some combination of the above.

Style of play is still a factor, and it isn't looking pretty or making sparkly passes that makes it so. Power Forwards who roam the perimeter and shun the paint are softer than real bangers. Wings and Guards who are scared to get chopped to the wood and shoot Js are softer than insatiable rim fiends who get at the hoop relentlessly.

As the season goes on, we will be able to tell for certain. I have watched Josh a very long time, and he has only recently started to embrace his position and the bruises that come with it.

BringJackBack
10-10-2010, 12:41 AM
Softness is determined by the choices a player makes, not merely their style of play. How often they take action that results in discomfort or pain or exhaustion or some combination of the above.

Style of play is still a factor, and it isn't looking pretty or making sparkly passes that makes it so. Power Forwards who roam the perimeter and shun the paint are softer than real bangers. Wings and Guards who are scared to get chopped to the wood and shoot Js are softer than insatiable rim fiends who get at the hoop relentlessly.

As the season goes on, we will be able to tell for certain. I have watched Josh a very long time, and he has only recently started to embrace his position and the bruises that come with it.

Agreed. But our real banger is not as good as our versatile four. Very close, but not quite.

judicata
10-10-2010, 12:46 AM
Agreed. But our real banger is not as good as our versatile four. Very close, but not quite.

I disagree, but am looking forward to both of the gentlemen presenting their cases over the next few months.

Kemo
10-10-2010, 12:48 AM
Even if I accept your 3 points, you are missing what I consider the most important point: Josh is soft, both mentally and physically. He does not like to bang, he likes to fly. Roy looked physically weak (but very skilled) out there too, and the Pacers need someone pushing bodies around the paint.



Obviously we aren't watching the same Josh McRoberts then..

I think Josh is far from being "soft" as you put it ..
Just because he doesn't play with reckless abandon,(aka TH) doesn't mean he is soft..

I am serious , I really think that some people here are watching these games from an alternate timeline/universe.. and this applies to the Pacers as a whole..

heh


.

BringJackBack
10-10-2010, 01:10 AM
I disagree, but am looking forward to both of the gentlemen presenting their cases over the next few months.

Most definently.

judicata
10-10-2010, 01:21 AM
Obviously we aren't watching the same Josh McRoberts then..

I think Josh is far from being "soft" as you put it ..
Just because he doesn't play with reckless abandon,(aka TH) doesn't mean he is soft..

I am serious , I really think that some people here are watching these games from an alternate timeline/universe.. and this applies to the Pacers as a whole..

heh


.

To be fair, Josh wouldn't be nearly as soft if the Allies had won WWII.

focused444
10-10-2010, 01:26 AM
I didn't get to see a minute of the game tonight. Tried to read this entire thread and I got to page 10 without seeing a single reference to tonight's game being the first back to back of the young season. Can we take any solace in that? I think Miami got blown out tonight on the road in their first back to back. Heard LBJ didn't play much though.

pacer4ever
10-10-2010, 01:57 AM
I didn't get to see a minute of the game tonight. Tried to read this entire thread and I got to page 10 without seeing a single reference to tonight's game being the first back to back of the young season. Can we take any solace in that? I think Miami got blown out tonight on the road in their first back to back. Heard LBJ didn't play much though.

i said something about that idk wat page thoe

Asteezy
10-10-2010, 06:38 AM
Didn't catch the game (looks like a blessing) but jeez it looked rough! allowing nearly 60% from the field doesnt scream defence to me, what happened did they jus have one of those cant miss nights, our did we make it easy for them? One other issue, when will PG make a shot? kids having a rough preseason! welcome to the NBA.

AlexAustin
10-10-2010, 07:02 AM
You call this guy soft?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NElaIEymBb4

Mr_Smith
10-10-2010, 07:51 AM
Didn't see the game last night for because I don't have NBA TV, nor did I get a chance to hear Mark and Slick.....after seeing the final score I just gotta ask what the hell happened out there last night in Houston???:confused:

pathil275
10-10-2010, 08:05 AM
Didn't see the game last night for because I don't have NBA TV, nor did I get a chance to hear Mark and Slick.....after seeing the final score I just gotta ask what the hell happened out there last night in Houston???:confused:

Simple answer, a mediocre team played a solid, seasoned Rockets team.

But as pointed out, it is pre-season and the guys try to build some chemistry, some routines and get a feel for each other's play. I liked what I see in the first half though.

Unclebuck
10-10-2010, 08:05 AM
In other words is it not possible to say yes it is pre-season basketball & I completely understand that we did not see rotations, plays and minutes played as they would be in the regular season however what I did see gives me pause to be concerned?

Or can it only be "well it's just pre-season so none of this means a thing" or "OMG the Pacers are going to suck suck suck this year and oh btw Jim O'Brien is the devil".

That is a good point. What I object to is for anyone to draw conclusions based upon a preseason game (or for that matter on a regular season game) you have to look at a series of games. However that does mean you cannot make observations based upon a preseason game or even a practice.

But there is a big difference between an observation - The defense is doing a poor job closing out on the three point shooters and the young guys seem a little lost. Vs a conclusion. The defense stinks, same old same old. This team is terrible just like always.

And to clarify my overall point, I am not suggesting preseason games don't mean a thing. I said the outcome, the won loss record doesn't mean a thing. I think it is important to play some good ball in the preseason at some point - unless you are the Lakers or a very veteran team.

Unless there are significant injuries or an unknown player comes out of nowhere, I never change my league wide predictions based on an anything that happens in the preseason. I would never suggest wow the Cavs are playing well in preseason, maybe they are better than I thought, I will include them in my playoff predictions. I would never do that for other teams so I am certainly not going to do it for the Pacers.

BlueNGold
10-10-2010, 08:38 AM
The concerns need to be put into context. We have several things going on here. First, we have a lot of inexperienced players. We also have several players coming off injury who are rusty. We are still short on talent, but the inexperience...and inexperience playing together is killing us. Paul George is going to be a good player, but he's still a baby...but he's getting a lot playing time that is costing us...although it's a great investment. Feel good about that. Our best PF, yes Josh, has not been available. I am sure that has hurt us. Instead Tyler has played and spent time working off rust. Both of our PG's are young...even though they show promise.

The bottom line is that Rome was not built in a day. The fact we now have more talented players does not mean we will not be losing games due to inexperience. Not every player comes into the league like Lebron at 18 and plays like an all-star. This will take time and this season we should see some growth. But for now, this is way too early.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-10-2010, 02:18 PM
Looks like a missed a blow-out last night. Was at the Chicago Marathon whereas 100,000 runners and 300,000 other people 'booked' nearly every hotel room in the city. From reading all of the posts (15 pages), it looks like we stunk it up after half-time after we inserted Dahntay and Solo. Interestingly, these are the exact two guys that I would TRADE this year. Even with their prior NBA experience, they don't seem to make much of an impact when they're inserted in any game.

I also agree that JOB may need to go. If our team rarely practices or plays the PnR in JOB's offense, how in the hell do we expect them to be able to defend it in real games. LB needs to hire Rick Adelman or some other 'experienced' NBA assistant coach from one of the better teams in the NBA. Our young guys need an experienced NBA Coach to teach them the nuances of the NBA game.

JOB's motion offense sounds like a good idea but he's not a great teacher nor motivator nor does his coaching staff appear to know how to scout opponent's tendencies. Do we even run our upcoming opponent's offense and defensive sets so our projected starters can see it before the games are played. If so, then I apologize to JOB and chaulk up the lost to whoever didn't show up in the third quarter when they blew us out and momentum turned in their favor for the rest of the game.

P.S. Simon may need to hire new 'talent evaluators' as well. Funny how some teams have a stable of young studs developing on the bench. Our probably starters wouldn't even make it to the bench or would play only backup minutes at the most.

flox
10-10-2010, 02:20 PM
If you look at the guys that were playing besides Duncan when they won championships they were not jump shooters in fact Duncan was the one spacing the floor at times while the other guy was inside to get a rebound or a lay up.

I am not sure but I think the guys were Robinson, Oberto, Mohammed and Elson, they used the stretch forwads at times(Horry and others)

Horry was used more than Elson/Mohammed, he was so important.

Other times you saw more of a small 4 with duncan at the 5. or more importantly for duncan, 3 wings, a center that smelled like a wing, played like a wing, but was a center, and duncan down low as a power forward.

d_c
10-10-2010, 03:20 PM
Other times you saw more of a small 4 with duncan at the 5. or more importantly for duncan, 3 wings, a center that smelled like a wing, played like a wing, but was a center, and duncan down low as a power forward.

Duncan has played center since 2003.

You can start a guy like Oberto or Horry or whoever you want and announce as the center in pre-game intros, but Duncan has been the guy who has actually been PLAYING center.

flox
10-10-2010, 04:00 PM
Duncan has played center since 2003.

You can start a guy like Oberto or Horry or whoever you want and announce as the center in pre-game intros, but Duncan has been the guy who has actually been PLAYING center.

Out of respect to duncan to doesn't want to be called a center I usually call him a power forward.

But yes, he has been playing center.

pwee31
10-10-2010, 04:39 PM
I'm not going to get all worked up until this team has had a little more time to play with one another.

Brand new point guard. PF that was stuck on the bench, other PF missed most of the season. Backup center missed the season. Starting SG was healing from knee injury. 3 new rookies.

I do feel I can go the entire regular season w/o Dahntay, Posey and Solo. Just my opinion based off of what I've seen