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bballpacen
10-07-2010, 12:37 PM
He's also getting more minutes at the NBA level than he ever has before, so saying he's only shot 34 threes is sort of a skewed statistic.He has averaged in the NBA one 3pt attempt per 24 and a half minutes of playing time... Making one every 104 minutes...

So one attempt in a given game is not out of the norm... My point is that this has never been a prevalent part of his game till now..

count55
10-07-2010, 12:39 PM
Yep, Roy is definitely in for the last offensive play. AJ tries to get him the ball when he turns it over.

http://www.nba.com/video/games/grizzlies/2010/10/06/0011000013_ind_mem_recap.nba/index.html

Watch it there if you don't believe me.

In fact, Roy kinda screws up the last play. Price is overdribbling, but then he starts heading towards the basket, you can see the defense begin to react to him. He has no real chance at a shot, because Roy's man had rotated over on him. For whatever reason, Roy followed his man down, cutting off any passing angle for AJ.

I'm not 100% sure Price would have seen or made the pass, but had Roy just floated to the elbow, he would have been in perfect position for a drop off and a wide open jumper.

It's not a mortal sin, but you could almost see Roy's indecision in the way he moved. I think he was caught between trying to crash the boards and trying to get open for a shot.

MyFavMartin
10-07-2010, 12:40 PM
4) Re: Danny - while I know his numbers haven't always been the greatest in preseason, I don't recall them being as much from poor decisions as last night seemed to be. I am not panicking, I am just worried.



Not worried. It's one game... preseason at that.

New guys, new rotations, new emphasis on offense... let's wait at least a few games before we start worrying.

bballpacen
10-07-2010, 12:41 PM
An open 3 isn't a high percentage shot? My mind is being blown right now, I need to sit down or get some fresh air.

Where am I? Is this real life? For McBob, it has not been a high percentage shoot this far into his career...



He's probably just been told to shoot if he is open and he can make it, so that is why I don't understand this out cry.

It's as if Obie said to him last night, "go out and shoot as many threes as you can if you get the ball at any point in time on our side of the court shoot it."

That's how some of the reaction has been.That is not quite what has happened... He has been encouraged to develop this part of his game, which he has NOT been effective in the past... This in my mind is just as bad for the Pacers...

MyFavMartin
10-07-2010, 12:43 PM
If he's open, I don't have a problem with Mac shooting the 3.

BillS
10-07-2010, 12:45 PM
That is not quite what has happened... He has been encouraged to develop this part of his game, which he has NOT been effective in the past... This in my mind is just as bad for the Pacers...

:eek:

Developing a part of your game where you have not been effective is BAD?

:picard:

Sookie
10-07-2010, 12:46 PM
The last sequence is included in the highlights on NBA.com. I could be wrong but i seem to remember AJ trying to dump it off to hibbert when he made his turnover. I'm pretty sure that roy was in.



yea, I would have said Josh came in for Posey, late. It was Hibbert and AJ that got the team back into it, why wouldn't JOB go with those two?

Josh made 2 threes last night, him and AJ were the only ones to make multiple 3s, and the team took a lot of them. Why wouldn't Josh keep taking them, he was making them? I'd hope if he went 0-4 in a real game, he'd chill and get closer to the basket..but if he's hot, why not?

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 12:47 PM
:eek:

Developing a part of your game where you have not been effective is BAD?

:picard:
Yeah, I don't know I feel like I'm going around in circles.

I still am trying to adapt to the fact that I'm defending JOB.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 12:48 PM
yea, I would have said Josh came in for Posey, late. It was Hibbert and AJ that got the team back into it, why wouldn't JOB go with those two?

Josh made 2 threes last night, him and AJ were the only ones to make multiple 3s, and the team took a lot of them. Why wouldn't Josh keep taking them, he was making them? I'd hope if he went 0-4 in a real game, he'd chill and get closer to the basket..but if he's hot, why not?

He did...

Sookie
10-07-2010, 12:52 PM
He did...

He did what?

I'm just saying that he was making his threes so why wouldn't he continue taking them? I think Josh has a high enough Bball IQ to trust him with shot selection.

I do think part of the reason he's on Jim's good side is he has been making the three. But that doesn't change the fact that there's a whole lot of other good in Josh's game, and I think..until it appears to be a problem, we can trust his shot selection.

McKeyFan
10-07-2010, 12:53 PM
In fact, Roy kinda screws up the last play. Price is overdribbling, but then he starts heading towards the basket, you can see the defense begin to react to him. He has no real chance at a shot, because Roy's man had rotated over on him. For whatever reason, Roy followed his man down, cutting off any passing angle for AJ.

I'm not 100% sure Price would have seen or made the pass, but had Roy just floated to the elbow, he would have been in perfect position for a drop off and a wide open jumper.

It's not a mortal sin, but you could almost see Roy's indecision in the way he moved. I think he was caught between trying to crash the boards and trying to get open for a shot.

Wow. Who can you trust anymore? Apparently not NBA.com

Good catch, Count. I viewed it several times. Looks like a Roy duck, and waddles like a Roy duck, and has what looks like 55 on the jersey. Must be Roy.

So, we can scratch all that anguish I voiced for leaving out Roy at the end.

I'm happy again.

bballpacen
10-07-2010, 12:54 PM
I dont think that it is a bad thing that he works on shooting the threes... I may have worded the last post poorly... It is the encouragement to make shooting the 3 a priority of his game which is bad... If he is left open... Let it fly... But that should be the ONLY time that he shoots a 3...

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 12:54 PM
Answer me this Joe

If he is worth defending and is a credible coach

Why then in almost four years has there been absolutely no improvement in the record?

I am in sales do you thin I could have stagnant numbers year after year and keep my job?

I wouldnt last 6 months

BillS
10-07-2010, 12:54 PM
Yeah, I don't know I feel like I'm going around in circles.

I still am trying to adapt to the fact that I'm defending JOB.

Welcome to our bizarro world, where we don't so much defend a coach as boggle at the bad logic used to skewer him.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 12:55 PM
He did what?

I'm just saying that he was making his threes so why wouldn't he continue taking them? I think Josh has a high enough Bball IQ to trust him with shot selection.

I do think part of the reason he's on Jim's good side is he has been making the three. But that doesn't change the fact that there's a whole lot of other good in Josh's game, and I think..until it appears to be a problem, we can trust his shot selection.

You edited your post, I was saying Obie did go with Price and Hibbert.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 12:56 PM
Answer me this Joe

If he is worth defending and is a credible coach

Why then in almost four years has there been absolutely no improvement in the record?

I am in sales do you thin I could have stagnant numbers year after year and keep my job?

I wouldnt last 6 months

...........You just completely changed the entire argument we've been having....We haven't been talking about whether or not JOB should have a job right now. We've been discussing whether he will change, and whether McRoberts should be shooting 3s.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 12:57 PM
I dont think that it is a bad thing that he works on shooting the threes... I may have worded the last post poorly... It is the encouragement to make shooting the 3 a priority of his game which is bad... If he is left open... Let it fly... But that should be the ONLY time that he shoots a 3...

How do you know that isn't how he's been instructed?

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 12:57 PM
And good Lord, I'm involved in a thread where I'm defending Jim O'Brien. I never thought I'd see the day, but I suppose you have to do that when people start claiming that they'd rather not see a PF shoot a three at all even if it is open, in the flow of the offense, and a skill he has. That just boggles my mind.

But who said that Joe?

All I said is Obrien lies. He claims he wants Josh to defend and rebound and not to worry about shooting, almost ephatically screaming

yet as I mentioned here is Josh shooting 3's in the summer, practice and now the first preseason game

Josh should be used as a rebounder, tough defense, and hustle points. the only time I want Josh shoting a 3 is if he is wide open, AND the shot clock is winding down

BillS
10-07-2010, 12:58 PM
Answer me this Joe

If he is worth defending and is a credible coach

Why then in almost four years has there been absolutely no improvement in the record?

I am in sales do you thin I could have stagnant numbers year after year and keep my job?

I wouldnt last 6 months

I don't know.

Suppose your product team is failing to deliver good products?

Suppose they aren't delivering to the customers what you order for them and when you asked them to deliver?

Suppose no customers are buying, and you are an inexpensive salesman to keep them in contact with the company while they wait for the economy to turn around?

Things can be (and are) a lot more complex.

Sookie
10-07-2010, 01:00 PM
You edited your post, I was saying Obie did go with Price and Hibbert.

Oh I know, I was defending JOB, I thought he made the correct decision there. Sorry if it came out wrong.

The only issue I had, was JOB was talking about playing different lineups together to see how "synergies" work.

I was hoping he would because I thought he was terrible at noticing that last season.

He didn't seem to do that much last night, he just sort of kept the same rotations, starters and bench. No mixing (other than Hibbert coming in with the bench for the last few minutes, but even then..we already know that him and AJ play well together...so...it wasn't like trying anything knew. )

So I know it was the first game, and I'm willing to let it go, but I hope he mixes it up a bit and plays different players together.

BillS
10-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Josh should be used as a rebounder, tough defense, and hustle points.

Seems to me the threes were IN ADDITION to all those things, not INSTEAD OF. How in the heck can that be bad?


the only time I want Josh shoting a 3 is if he is wide open, AND the shot clock is winding down

If Josh is constantly away from the basket when the clock is winding down then there is definitely a problem.

bballpacen
10-07-2010, 01:02 PM
How do you know that isn't how he's been instructed?
Granted, this is only a very small sampling, and in the overall scheme of things, meaningless example of a game, that is an awful lot of 3 point attempts for McBob... Every other shot attempt is a 3?? When till now, roughly 15% of his shot attempts have come from downtown... And all of this after Murphy is gone...

BillS
10-07-2010, 01:03 PM
The only issue I had, was JOB was talking about playing different lineups together to see how "synergies" work.

I was hoping he would because I thought he was terrible at noticing that last season.

He didn't seem to do that much last night, he just sort of kept the same rotations, starters and bench. No mixing (other than Hibbert coming in with the bench for the last few minutes, but even then..we already know that him and AJ play well together...so...it wasn't like trying anything knew. )

So I know it was the first game, and I'm willing to let it go, but I hope he mixes it up a bit and plays different players together.

In the preseason I would hope you'd allow time for certain lineups to play out rather than swapping things around a lot in an individual game. You've got plenty of games to play with different lineups.

That said, we can see if he switches it around (other than perhaps beginning to settle on a starting 5).

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 01:04 PM
And good Lord, I'm involved in a thread where I'm defending Jim O'Brien. I never thought I'd see the day, but I suppose you have to do that when people start claiming that they'd rather not see a PF shoot a three at all even if it is open, in the flow of the offense, and a skill he has. That just boggles my mind.


But who said that Joe?

You're kidding right? This is all one big joke, it has to be. YOU SAID IT. Not even three pages ago...


So your choice would be for a coach to tell a player "don't work on that aspect of your game, if you work on it don't use it, and definitely if you have a wide open makeable shot don't take it"?

Bill directly asked you that question and you said....


You are correct

Someone like McBob, I would absolutely NOT want shooting 3's and no Jim is not trying to make McBob into Troy, but rather make McBob into the tyoe of "stretch 4 " he likes


Now you're going to tell me I misinterpreted that quote? Looks like you are saying to me you don't want Josh shooting the 3 AT ALL, and beyond that you don't even want him working on shooting the three in practice. I am not taking crazy pills right now and making things up. This exchange already happened. You said it, I'm not imagining things.

OakMoses
10-07-2010, 01:05 PM
What are McRoberts biggest strengths as an offensive player?

My answer: ballhandling, passing, rebounding (but mainly when moving toward the basket, not blocking out).

He has a perimeter skill set. The ability to make a 3 point shot only makes it easier for him to use his other skills.

Think about it this way: Rajon Rondo would be the best PG in the NBA if he could make an open jump shot, but he can't so the Lakers can let Kobe or Fisher sag off him by 5 feet, help on other players, and completely take away his ability to drive and create for other players. Consequently, the Celtics lose the NBA championship. If McBob can hit the three, teams have to close out on him. Then he can go by them and really play to his strengths. If not, he'll catch the ball and stand there while the defense looks at him and smiles.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 01:05 PM
I don't know.

Suppose your product team is failing to deliver good products?

Suppose they aren't delivering to the customers what you order for them and when you asked them to deliver?

Suppose no customers are buying, and you are an inexpensive salesman to keep them in contact with the company while they wait for the economy to turn around?

Things can be (and are) a lot more complex.

I understand but in a "now" world results drive the bottom line. I have worked for a company where their product was significantly inferior to the competition, which made for a difficult sale

however, ther was no way management would accpet that, I was judged on my numbers , not excuses

I mean I think Vinny Del Negro is a better coach than Obie. He took the Bulls to the playoffs and was fired. Obie hasnt done that in four years

I will say it right now , I think we will have more problems with our offense at first than our defense

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 01:09 PM
O'Brien is a far more accomplished coach than Del Negro. Let's not even deal in such crazy talk.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 01:09 PM
Your right I DONT WANT JOSH PRACTICING A 3!!

Roy is not a PG , but I guess since intiating the offense is a weakness, then he should work on that part of his game? Flawed logic my friend

I would rather see Josh work with Bill Walton on developing some low post moves MUCh more than shoting 3's in a gym

For those who thinkI am being hard or irrational

Please tell me why you think Ia m being too hard on Obie

i really honestly struggle to point out anything good he has done

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 01:10 PM
By the way I love all this discussion. I know some people hate it , but I love passionate arguments and discussion

Also my contempt for Jim does not hinder my excitement for the Pacers season

flox
10-07-2010, 01:11 PM
Answer me this Joe

If he is worth defending and is a credible coach

Why then in almost four years has there been absolutely no improvement in the record?

I am in sales do you thin I could have stagnant numbers year after year and keep my job?
We started off selling ipod touches. Then, for some reason, our overall talent level went down and we only could sell ipod. And then, our talent level went down further and we could only sell Zunes. And after that we could only sell cheap knockoffs.

I'd hire you for the long term if you had stagnant numbers.

And thats exactly what happened to the team. This year, I think we went back up to zunes. At least I think so- we might be at iPod Nano range.

Meanwhile some people like those folks in Boston or LA or in Utah have had high end quality products to sell for the past few years.

Sookie
10-07-2010, 01:11 PM
In the preseason I would hope you'd allow time for certain lineups to play out rather than swapping things around a lot in an individual game. You've got plenty of games to play with different lineups.

That said, we can see if he switches it around (other than perhaps beginning to settle on a starting 5).

I would think it would make sense to try out different lineups in the first half of preseason, and then settle on rotations in the second half. But that'd be my philosophy. JOB can do what he likes, however he just mentioned the "synergies." I thought he'd actually do that because that's not a common thing coaches say...Oh well, perhaps he's just going to try different lineups for whole periods of games throughout the preseason. That's why I said I'd be fair and see what he does first. :P I was just personally looking forward to seeing how different lineups looked together. I figure preseason is the time to experiement.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 01:12 PM
O'Brien is a far more accomplished coach than Del Negro. Let's not even deal in such crazy talk.

Again Joe I didnt say that he was more accomplished than Obie

I said I think he is a better coach

and I stand by that

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 01:13 PM
Your right I DONT WANT JOSH PRACTICING A 3!!

Roy is not a PG , but I guess since intiating the offense is a weakness, then he should work on that part of his game? Flawed logic my friend

I would rather see Josh work with Bill Walton on developing some low post moves MUCh more than shoting 3's in a gym

For those who thinkI am being hard or irrational

Please tell me why you think Ia m being too hard on Obie

i really honestly struggle to point out anything good he has done

No your logic is flawed. Roy Hibbert will never be bringing the ball up the court, yes I agree, but he should still make sure he can handle the ball and pass. These are necessary skills he needs to not only have, but also improve on. (BTW, he is a pretty good initiator of the offense, so yes I do want him working on being the focal point of getting plays started, but I digress).

Josh may not be a three point specialist, but there will be a time where he needs to step out and hit jumpers in probably every game we play, why you wouldn't want him work on that is well beyond my ability to comprehend a line of logic because it makes absolutely no sense to me.

You're a salesman, right? You're not an accountant, so does that mean you shouldn't be able to do math?

Also, I would love Josh to work with Walton, but not to work on his low post moves specifically. That would clog the lane if he and Roy both were used that way. I would like him to work with Walton on his passing and his high post play, which is where he will be most effective, and having a solid jumper will only open up more ways for Josh to use those talents.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 01:14 PM
We started off selling ipod touches. Then, for some reason, our overall talent level went down and we only could sell ipod. And then, our talent level went down further and we could only sell Zunes. And after that we could only sell cheap knockoffs.

I'd hire you for the long term if you had stagnant numbers.

And thats exactly what happened to the team. This year, I think we went back up to zunes. At least I think so- we might be at iPod Nano range.

Meanwhile some people like those folks in Boston or LA or in Utah have had high end quality products to sell for the past few years.

Flox

I would love for you to be my employer. I have 10 years experience in sales and have never had a company that would give you the time you're referring too.

I would absolutely love to be given that and to find a comapny out their with that phillosphy but have yet to do so

flox
10-07-2010, 01:16 PM
Flox

I would love for you to be my employer. I have 10 years experience in sales and have never had a company that would give you the time you're referring too.

I would absolutely love to be given that and to find a comapny out their with that phillosphy but have yet to do so

You won't find me as an employer because I probably would have went out of business when I started selling Zunes. =/

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 01:16 PM
Again Joe I didnt say that he was more accomplished than Obie

I said I think he is a better coach

and I stand by that

Based off what? One season of coaching with a team that vastly under achieved?

Unclebuck
10-07-2010, 01:18 PM
But who said that Joe?

All I said is Obrien lies. He claims he wants Josh to defend and rebound and not to worry about shooting, almost ephatically screaming

yet as I mentioned here is Josh shooting 3's in the summer, practice and now the first preseason game

Josh should be used as a rebounder, tough defense, and hustle points. the only time I want Josh shoting a 3 is if he is wide open, AND the shot clock is winding down

Yes and one of the threes last night was when the shot clock was winding down

Jim said Josh will not be judged by the coaching staff based upon his three point shooting. he'll be judged for rebounding, defense, not turning the ball over. Did he ever say that Josh will not be allowed to shoot threes, or anything like that? Jim didn't lie.

Didn't we have this discussion last week.

As far as why Jim's record was worse alst season. Less winning talent. Younger players not ready and injured vets last season

BillS
10-07-2010, 01:19 PM
Roy is not a PG , but I guess since intiating the offense is a weakness, then he should work on that part of his game? Flawed logic my friend

Actually, your logic is flawed because you set up a ridiculous comparison and then use it to determine that all such work outside current competencies is therefore ridiculous.


I would rather see Josh work with Bill Walton on developing some low post moves MUCh more than shoting 3's in a gym

And you can't do both? You can shoot 3's on your own, with no one around, in the 15 minutes while you are waiting for someone to show up for a session or before you head to the locker room.

At no point was it ever reported, suggested, or even obvious from Josh's performance in PRESEASON game 1 that he has abandoned work on all other aspects of his game and expects to be used purely as a 3-point shooter.


For those who thinkI am being hard or irrational

Please tell me why you think Ia m being too hard on Obie

i really honestly struggle to point out anything good he has done

Well, you follow your own nemesis in persisting to respond to anyone pointing things out to you that they are, in one way or another, "irrelevant". That makes it a little hard to do.

All I ever look to do is to have people use rational "bad" things to talk about JOB's weaknesses and failures as a coach. Letting Josh shoot 4 threes in the flow of the offense in a preseason game is not enough to panic about.

Letting the last quarter become a jump fest? Well, maybe, but again it is the first preseason game and maybe he was letting that lineup show what it couldn't do.

flox
10-07-2010, 01:19 PM
I mean I think Vinny Del Negro is a better coach than Obie. He took the Bulls to the playoffs and was fired. Obie hasnt done that in four years


Rose >>> whoever we had in the past few years
Gordon/Hinrich >> whoever we had in the past few years
Deng < Granger
Gibson/Thomas < Murphy
Noah >> Hibbert

Bench:

Hinrich/Thomas/Miller >>>> Dunleavy/Rush/Jones

Lets be fair now.

vnzla81
10-07-2010, 01:28 PM
Rose >>> whoever we had in the past few years
Gordon/Hinrich >> whoever we had in the past few years
Deng < Granger
Gibson/Thomas < Murphy
Noah >> Hibbert

Bench:

Hinrich/Thomas/Miller >>>> Dunleavy/Rush/Jones

Lets be fair now.

Rose was a rookie and under JOB he wouldn't play as much because "the veterans give us a better chance to win" crap

vnzla81
10-07-2010, 01:30 PM
Noah was also a second year player and JOB would have the broken down veteran playing for him because he was too young

flox
10-07-2010, 01:33 PM
Rose was a rookie and under JOB he wouldn't play as much because "the veterans give us a better chance to win" crap


Noah was also a second year player and JOB would have the broken down veteran playing for him because he was too young

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/images/smilies/picard.jpg

BillS
10-07-2010, 01:33 PM
Rose was a rookie and under JOB he wouldn't play as much because "the veterans give us a better chance to win" crap

Can I get you to eat this reply if we see Collison and George play rotation minutes?

Seriously, that's about as stupid a comment about JOB as I have ever seen. The man would NOT bench the number 1 draft pick, I don't care how much of a bozo you think he is.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 01:33 PM
90's let me ask you this, do you think good basketball teams do not employ or use power forwards that shoot the 3 and other jump shots?

Evidence actually points to the contrary, it's just about knowing when to shoot it, which is something I think Josh knows and something Obie will not complain about.

vnzla81
10-07-2010, 01:42 PM
Can I get you to eat this reply if we see Collison and George play rotation minutes?

Seriously, that's about as stupid a comment about JOB as I have ever seen. The man would NOT bench the number 1 draft pick, I don't care how much of a bozo you think he is.

We only know what Jim is been doing in the last three years and that is playing the veterans in front of the young players, yes Rose was the number one pick but I still think that the only reason he would have play the guy is because the front office told him to.

dohman
10-07-2010, 01:44 PM
Josh is extending the life of his career. Coaches want players who can step out and make a shot. Most of the time its the PF's man that steps off to double team because they are not traditionally good shooters. If josh can command respect by shooting and making a 3 pointer let him do it.

flox
10-07-2010, 01:51 PM
Josh is extending the life of his career. Coaches want players who can step out and make a shot. Most of the time its the PF's man that steps off to double team because they are not traditionally good shooters. If josh can command respect by shooting and making a 3 pointer let him do it.

Yes completely agreed.


We only know what Jim is been doing in the last three years and that is playing the veterans in front of the young players, yes Rose was the number one pick but I still think that the only reason he would have play the guy is because the front office told him to.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Minutes.jsp?league=00&season=22008&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&sortOrder=2&splitDD=All%20Teams

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Minutes.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&splitDD=All%20Teams

Bullcrap.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 01:55 PM
Josh may not be a three point specialist, but there will be a time where he needs to step out and hit jumpers in probably every game we play, why you wouldn't want him work on that is well beyond my ability to comprehend a line of logic because it makes absolutely no sense to me.

I agree with that but I would only apply that if Josh was already abover average in all other aspects of his game.

Since , to me, he is not, then i would much rather him work on turing his natural talents into strong points

flox
10-07-2010, 01:56 PM
I agree with that but I would only apply that if Josh was already abover average in all other aspects of his game.

Since , to me, he is not, then i would much rather him work on turing his natural talents into strong points

even then without his 3pt shot he wouldn't be a rotation player.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 01:56 PM
You won't find me as an employer because I probably would have went out of business when I started selling Zunes. =/

LMAO

oh gosh, my condolances :)

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 01:58 PM
Based off what? One season of coaching with a team that vastly under achieved?

As opposed too

4 years of undeachieving, unhappy players, and absolutely no positive sign things are moving in the right direction

As for underachieved , they made the playoffs and I dont think anyone had them as ECF threats

count55
10-07-2010, 01:58 PM
Can I get you to eat this reply if we see Collison and George play rotation minutes?

Seriously, that's about as stupid a comment about JOB as I have ever seen. The man would NOT bench the number 1 draft pick, I don't care how much of a bozo you think he is.

Andre Iguodala

Games Played as a Rookie - 82
Games Started as a Rookie - 82
Minutes Played as a Rookie - 2,686
Coach as a Rookie - Jim O'Brien

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 02:02 PM
So plain and simple

Do you believe Jim O'Brien as a man of his word?

I do not

I wish all you guys defending him were my boss. It is uncomprehensible how you continue to defend a man who's record speaks for itself.

I would love to be able to not improve year after year , yet somehow amazingly my managers wouldnt have a problem with that

You make excuses about saying "he didnt have players, they were young , yada yada

Yet RC , in my opinion, did much more with far less , when he coached the team after the brawl

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 02:03 PM
Rose >>> whoever we had in the past few years
Gordon/Hinrich >> whoever we had in the past few years
Deng < Granger
Gibson/Thomas < Murphy
Noah >> Hibbert

Bench:

Hinrich/Thomas/Miller >>>> Dunleavy/Rush/Jones

Lets be fair now.

Flox

I couldnt stand Troy much either , but he is a better NBA player right now hen Gibson or Thomas

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 02:05 PM
In this corner we have 90's and VNZLA, in the opposite corner we have Buck, Joe and Bill

Ding Ding


:)

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 02:08 PM
90's let me ask you this, do you think good basketball teams do not employ or use power forwards that shoot the 3 and other jump shots?

Evidence actually points to the contrary, it's just about knowing when to shoot it, which is something I think Josh knows and something Obie will not complain about.

Yes I do,

I have no problem with PF's like Shawn Marion, Troy Murphy, or Dirk shooting 3's

McBob I have a problem with that. first and foremost the other mentioned aready were good at shooting outside jumpers, so it would make sense to develop a 3.

McBob has nevr been that, and I dont think ever will. I mean have you seen his form on that ugly flat footed jumper? It is not his strength and never will be


I think if you plug RC, Larry Brown, hell even George Irvine, (lol) they would do more with this team than OBie.

flox
10-07-2010, 02:09 PM
Flox

I couldnt stand Troy much either , but he is a better NBA player right now hen Gibson or Thomas

Isn' that arrow you quoted having the pac man side towards murphy making him better?

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 02:10 PM
even then without his 3pt shot he wouldn't be a rotation player.

I dont necessarly agree with that

I see him as a Varejo, Birdman, Dudley type player who could carve out a better nitch with the skills of rebounding , defense, and energy

much more than developing a 3 point shot

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 02:12 PM
Isn' that arrow you quoted having the pac man side towards murphy making him better?

Im sorry flox, didnt follow that

flox
10-07-2010, 02:12 PM
I dont necessarly agree with that

I see him as a Varejo, Birdman, Dudley type player who could carve out a better nitch with the skills of rebounding , defense, and energy

much more than developing a 3 point shot

Dudely shoots threes. Varajeo is a great defender. Birdman is a great shot blocker.

McBob doesn't have the same defense ceiling as varajeo, not the same shotblocking ceiling as birdman, but the same 3pt shooting ceiling as dudley

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 02:13 PM
Man,

I am gonna get fired for sure :)


Please dont be monitoring my time on the internet systems admin :)

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Dudely shoots threes. Varajeo is a great defender. Birdman is a great shot blocker.

McBob doesn't have the same defense ceiling as varajeo, not the same shotblocking ceiling as birdman, but the same 3pt shooting ceiling as dudley

You're right about Dudley

although he brings the aforementioned skills AND can stick the three

Highly underated, would LOVE him on the Pacers

and so would Jim :)

PS 23 pages on a pre-season game topic

we all must have been jonezin for basketball!!

d_c
10-07-2010, 02:29 PM
Andre Iguodala

Games Played as a Rookie - 82
Games Started as a Rookie - 82
Minutes Played as a Rookie - 2,686
Coach as a Rookie - Jim O'Brien

Another thing to add to that list: 1st Team All Rookie

vnzla81
10-07-2010, 02:41 PM
Andre Iguodala

Games Played as a Rookie - 82
Games Started as a Rookie - 82
Minutes Played as a Rookie - 2,686
Coach as a Rookie - Jim O'Brien

Are we talking about the sixers or pacers?:confused:

BillS
10-07-2010, 02:42 PM
Are we talking about the sixers or pacers?:confused:

Oh, I see. Jim wasn't infected with Teh Stupid until he came to the Pacers. :rolleyes:

31andonly
10-07-2010, 03:00 PM
OT: Erazem Lorbek and FC Barcelona against the Lakers. Live on ESPN HD2.

MyFavMartin
10-07-2010, 03:02 PM
I have no problem with PF's like Shawn Marion...

Shawn Marion isn't a good 3PT shooter.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 03:06 PM
Shawn Marion isn't a good 3PT shooter.

I respectfully disagree

avoidingtheclowns
10-07-2010, 03:08 PM
So you don't want your power forward to ever shoot a three? Even if it is a skill he has?

And you call O'Brien stubborn and close minded? That might be the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

You never limit a player. Josh from all reports was all over the court, he had threes, he had dunks, he played D, he rebounded, and he passed well. And yet we're still finding things to ***** about. Unbelievable.

And like I said, Josh has always, and I mean ALWAYS had a lot of stretch 4 in his game. It's not something new, it's been there since high school. Those of you who believe it has just now shown up, must have not watched him very often.

And you're all acting like he's Troy Murphy, give me a f'ing break, when did Murphy ever and I mean EVER make a play like the reverse dunk put back Josh had last night?

I agree with your larger point, but...

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vnzla81
10-07-2010, 03:24 PM
Oh, I see. Jim wasn't infected with Teh Stupid until he came to the Pacers. :rolleyes:

Well you said it no me ;)

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:00 PM
Well you said it no me ;)

It is abssolutely freakin mind blowing the defense of Jim O'Brien

Fine he is right up their with Phill Jackson

He has done nothing but have a positive influence on all Pacers

His four years of shtty records is an abnormaility in an otherwise brilliant careeer

He is completly honest and "relevant", he would absolutely never say one thing in public , then do the exact opposite in private

He gets the best of all his players and is extreemly well liked

The Pacers werent rejoicing when he was given the extra year, because they were so disappointed he was not given a multi year extension

Jim is right and all the other assistants, including Mel Daniels have it out for him

JIm doesnt want the PF to shoot 3's, he just wants them to rebound and play strong defense

If not hired by the Pacers, Jim O'Brien was set to take over the Lakers after Jackson was to be fired by Jerry Buss

Jim willl be in hot demmand the minute he walks away from the Pacers

Troy Murphy lied when he said he was glad to leave the Pacers situation, what he really meant is that he felt bad he could not live up to the expectations that the greatest baasketball coach in the history of the game had laid on him

BornReady
10-07-2010, 04:02 PM
It is abssolutely freakin mind blowing the defense of Jim O'Brien

Fine he is right up their with Phill Jackson

He has done nothing but have a positive influence on all Pacers

His four years of shtty records is an abnormaility in an otherwise brilliant careeer

He is completly honest and "relevant", he would absolutely never say one thing in public , then do the exact opposite in private

He gets the best of all his players and is extreemly well liked

The Pacers werent rejoicing when he was given the extra year, because they were so disappointed he was not given a multi year extension

Jim is right and all the other assistants, including Mel Daniels have it out for him

JIm doesnt want the PF to shoot 3's, he just wants them to rebound and play strong defense

If not hired by the Pacers, Jim O'Brien was set to take over the Lakers after Jackson was to be fired by Jerry Buss

Jim willl be in hot demmand the minute he walks away from the Pacers

Troy Murphy lied when he said he was glad to leave the Pacers situation, what he really meant is that he felt bad he could not live up to the expectations that the greatest baasketball coach in the history of the game had laid on him

whoa

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:05 PM
whoa

lol

I know fam

4 cups of Java and Im ready

Man I was born ready :)

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:06 PM
Yes I do,

I have no problem with PF's like Shawn Marion, Troy Murphy, or Dirk shooting 3's

McBob I have a problem with that. first and foremost the other mentioned aready were good at shooting outside jumpers, so it would make sense to develop a 3.

McBob has nevr been that, and I dont think ever will. I mean have you seen his form on that ugly flat footed jumper? It is not his strength and never will be


I think if you plug RC, Larry Brown, hell even George Irvine, (lol) they would do more with this team than OBie.

Have you seen Shawn Marion's jump shot? It's ****ing hideous.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:07 PM
I agree with your larger point, but...

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He didn't do a reverse dunk after running the fastbreak ;), but noted the 6'10" Troy Murphy can in fact dunk the basketball.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:12 PM
Have you seen Shawn Marion's jump shot? It's ****ing hideous.

it is painful to look at your correct

but for such an ugly shot he was pretty effective, no?

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:12 PM
I dont necessarly agree with that

I see him as a Varejo, Birdman, Dudley type player who could carve out a better nitch with the skills of rebounding , defense, and energy

much more than developing a 3 point shot

Then you clearly didn't follow his career at Duke, he is and always has been a point forward. Even during his high school years at Carmel. The idea of him being a "garbage man" type player never emerged until his Pacer years and people seemed to stamp him that way because he only got garbage minutes and the only skill we got to see a lot of was his elite athleticism. When in reality, he is and always has been a decent shooter, he is a TREMENDOUS ball handler and passes, his skills are perimeter oriented.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:13 PM
it is painful to look at your correct

but for such an ugly shot he was pretty effective, no?

You said one of the reasons you didn't want McRoberts practicing his shot is because it was ugly, so why can't his be effective? :wtf:

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:14 PM
Then you clearly didn't follow his career at Duke, he is and always has been a point forward. Even during his high school years at Carmel. The idea of him being a "garbage man" type player never emerged until his Pacer years and people seemed to stamp him that way because he only got garbage minutes and the only skill we got to see a lot of was his elite athleticism. When in reality, he is and always has been a decent shooter, he is a TREMENDOUS ball handler and passes, his skills are perimeter oriented.

I understand but you dont recall him nailing 3's at eiterh Duke or in his Carmel days do you?

and why were on the subject of ugly shots.....

His 3 point stroke is a painful watch

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:14 PM
Oh, I see. Jim wasn't infected with Teh Stupid until he came to the Pacers. :rolleyes:

It's been going around the locker room here apparently.

BillS
10-07-2010, 04:15 PM
It is abssolutely freakin mind blowing the defense of Jim O'Brien

etc

etc

etc

There's no in between? He's gotta be either the greatest coach in the world or the stupidest man to set foot in an NBA locker room?

I left it at your comment about RC doing a better job, in your opinion, with the post-brawl team. I don't necessarily hold that opinion, but it is not something I want to argue with because there's something to be said for it. However, leaping from there to "JOB is the worst coach in 120 years of the game of basketball and anyone who disputes a single point about it thinks he's the greatest coach that ever lived" is a bit much.

Can you cut some of us a little break here and grant us a basketball IQ of double digits, at least?

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:15 PM
I understand but you dont recall him nailing 3's at eiterh Duke or in his Carmel days do you?

and why were on the subject of ugly shots.....

His 3 point stroke is a painful watch

So is Shawn Marion's, what the hell does this have to do with anything? Reggie had one of the ugliest releases of all time from a fundamentals stand point. And yes, at Carmel and Duke I remember Josh shooting long jumpers. He was on the perimeter constantly at Duke, so much so that Duke fans grew to HATE him for it for a lot of his time there.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:16 PM
You said one of the reasons you didn't want McRoberts practicing his shot is because it was ugly, so why can't his be effective? :wtf:

I was talking about Shawn Marion man

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:18 PM
Can you cut some of us a little break here and grant us a basketball IQ of double digits, at least?

Bill, I thought you were above that type of talk sir

I never ssaid he was the worst coach in basketball, but after 4 years of his nonsense I have had enough. I think 2 years ago he should have been canned. Is the worst coach in the history of the game? No he isnt

Is he the most frustrating and annoying? Probably so

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:20 PM
So is Shawn Marion's, what the hell does this have to do with anything? Reggie had one of the ugliest releases of all time from a fundamentals stand point. And yes, at Carmel and Duke I remember Josh shooting long jumpers. He was on the perimeter constantly at Duke, so much so that Duke fans grew to HATE him for it for a lot of his time there.

No your not thinking

Shawn MArion has been a consistent 3 point shooter since his days with NAsh

McBob has never ever came remotley close to that and therefore shouldnt even be in the conversation

I could pull the stats but it would be an absolute one sided thing

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:21 PM
I was talking about Shawn Marion man

:wtf:

You said this on the last page


Yes I do,

I have no problem with PF's like Shawn Marion, Troy Murphy, or Dirk shooting 3's

McBob I have a problem with that. first and foremost the other mentioned aready were good at shooting outside jumpers, so it would make sense to develop a 3.

McBob has nevr been that, and I dont think ever will. I mean have you seen his form on that ugly flat footed jumper? It is not his strength and never will be


I think if you plug RC, Larry Brown, hell even George Irvine, (lol) they would do more with this team than OBie.

Do you see the bold part? Right after you get done praising Shawn Marion for his shot, you use Josh's ugly jumper as a reason he shouldn't shoot. That is contradictory as all get out.

And you're a Pacers fan, do you remember Sam Perkins? The definition of a flat footed jump shot, ugly shots can be effective.

Why can't Josh's? I'm not even sure the point you're trying to make. With contradictory posts like that one I feel you're just arguing to argue at this point.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:23 PM
No your not thinking

Shawn MArion has been a consistent 3 point shooter since his days with NAsh

McBob has never ever came remotley close to that and therefore shouldnt even be in the conversation

I could pull the stats but it would be an absolute one sided thing

You're suggesting that Josh McRoberts can never be a good 3 point shooter?

How am I not thinking? You're making absolutely no sense. Of course I realize Marion is the more accomplished shooter right now, he's been in the league for oh ten more years or so.

You're very good at bringing up comparisons that seem to back up your point, but are completely off base.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:24 PM
BTW Shawn MArion was a terrible three point shooter his first two years in the league, absolutely freakin' terrible. He shot 18 and 25%. So you might want to check your stats before you even try to make claims that are just flat out wrong.

Since Josh is just now entering his 4th year in the league, I'd say it's unfair to compare him to the years Marion had after that.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:26 PM
McBob shot 4 3 pointers at Duke at a rousing clip of .003 per game

I can see why you would want him letting go from 3 often

BillS
10-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Bill, I thought you were above that type of talk sir

I never ssaid he was the worst coach in basketball, but after 4 years of his nonsense I have had enough. I think 2 years ago he should have been canned. Is the worst coach in the history of the game? No he isnt

Is he the most frustrating and annoying? Probably so

Then at least grant the few of us on the other side that we don't think he's the greatest coach in the history of the game.

Maybe we don't even think he is particularly good.

We just aren't going to decide that things are exactly the same when they clearly aren't, and we're going to watch the new circumstances for a while before jumping to our own conclusions.

If the Pacers play this season like they did in Q1, with lots of motion and pick and roll action, then it will be clear that the team is not playing the kind of ball everyone accuses JOB of wanting.

If they play like they did in Q4, then it's the other story.

I, for one, am willing to wait and see until we get a REAL lineup and REAL rotation.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:28 PM
:wtf:

You said this on the last page



Do you see the bold part? Right after you get done praising Shawn Marion for his shot, you use Josh's ugly jumper as a reason he shouldn't shoot. That is contradictory as all get out.

And you're a Pacers fan, do you remember Sam Perkins? The definition of a flat footed jump shot, ugly shots can be effective.

Why can't Josh's? I'm not even sure the point you're trying to make. With contradictory posts like that one I feel you're just arguing to argue at this point.

I do

The difference is those playres with ugly form MAKE THEIR SHOTS

McBob has never done that and still has an ugly shot

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:30 PM
You're suggesting that Josh McRoberts can never be a good 3 point shooter?

How am I not thinking? You're making absolutely no sense. Of course I realize Marion is the more accomplished shooter right now, he's been in the league for oh ten more years or so.

You're very good at bringing up comparisons that seem to back up your point, but are completely off base.

What in the world factually would ever make you think McBob can be a three point threat?

and no I am not arguing for the sake of it

BillS
10-07-2010, 04:30 PM
I do

The difference is those playres with ugly form MAKE THEIR SHOTS

McBob has never done that and still has an ugly shot

Damn. Who was impersonating Josh on the floor last night? I want HIM on the team.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:31 PM
McBob shot 4 3 pointers at Duke at a rousing clip of .003 per game

I can see why you would want him letting go from 3 often

:censored: It's about his perimeter game, the 3 pointer is a TOOL for his perimeter game. You can't possibly be this close minded.

Anyone who says Josh McRoberts is not a perimeter oriented big man is an idiot. I'm sorry. It's just true, look at his history, his best case when he came into the NBA was Chris Webber a guy that made his entire career in the high post. Josh also has a lot of Lamar Odom in his game.

He is not a garbage man, he is not Varejao, Josh's basketball skills (passing, dribbling, shooting) put Varejao to shame.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:32 PM
I do

The difference is those playres with ugly form MAKE THEIR SHOTS

McBob has never done that and still has an ugly shot

HE WAS TWO FOR ****ING FOUR FROM THE FLOOR LAST NIGHT.

God, you're not even making sense. This is a joke.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:33 PM
I do

The difference is those playres with ugly form MAKE THEIR SHOTS

McBob has never done that and still has an ugly shot

Address this, please for the love of God...

Shawn Marion shot EIGHTEEN PERCENT his rookie year only took 22 ****ing threes total.

Next season he shot TWENTY FIVE PERCENT.

There were years he became a reliable three point threat. Why can't Josh?

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:33 PM
Then at least grant the few of us on the other side that we don't think he's the greatest coach in the history of the game.

Maybe we don't even think he is particularly good.

We just aren't going to decide that things are exactly the same when they clearly aren't, and we're going to watch the new circumstances for a while before jumping to our own conclusions.

If the Pacers play this season like they did in Q1, with lots of motion and pick and roll action, then it will be clear that the team is not playing the kind of ball everyone accuses JOB of wanting.

If they play like they did in Q4, then it's the other story.

I, for one, am willing to wait and see until we get a REAL lineup and REAL rotation.


I will give you that Bill

Lets see how it plays out and revist thsi say in Decemember.

Fair enough?

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:35 PM
:censored: It's about his perimeter game, the 3 pointer is a TOOL for his perimeter game. You can't possibly be this close minded.

Anyone who says Josh McRoberts is not a perimeter oriented big man is an idiot. I'm sorry. It's just true, look at his history, his best case when he came into the NBA was Chris Webber a guy that made his entire career in the high post. Josh also has a lot of Lamar Odom in his game.

He is not a garbage man, he is not Varejao, Josh's basketball skills (passing, dribbling, shooting) put Varejao to shame.

Where do you get he is premiter orientated?

I have nevre seen him bring the ball up the floor, guard permiter players, or consistently camp out at the 3pt line?

Part Timer
10-07-2010, 04:35 PM
Well you said it no me ;)

If I'm not mistaken you are asserting that O'brien is opposed to playing young players. Count provided actual evidence that contradicts your position. Yet, you proceed as if that never happened?

The facts regarding Igoudala's rookie season suggest O'brien has no problem playing young players that he thinks are ready to play.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:36 PM
Yeah, I need to leave this thread before I have an aneurism from trying to understand how Shawn Marion can be a three point threat by Josh McRoberts can't be.

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:36 PM
HE WAS TWO FOR ****ING FOUR FROM THE FLOOR LAST NIGHT.

God, you're not even making sense. This is a joke.

WTF are you talking about?

He makes 2 3 pointers in a pre season game?

I tell you what if McBob ever becomes a 3pt threat , I will shave my head bald

if not then its on you

vnzla81
10-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Damn. Who was impersonating Josh on the floor last night? I want HIM on the team.

One preseason game that we couldn't watch, talking about waiting for the real line up......

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 04:42 PM
Yeah, I need to leave this thread before I have an aneurism from trying to understand how Shawn Marion can be a three point threat by Josh McRoberts can't be.

Why is it so difficult to understand ?

Josh will never be what Marion was is

in 05 Shawn Marion shot 28-60 3pointers IN THE PLAYOFFS.

You think McBob will get anywhere near that based on what?

I dont follow your reasoning

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:45 PM
Where do you get he is premiter orientated?

I have nevre seen him bring the ball up the floor, guard permiter players, or consistently camp out at the 3pt line?

It's clear you never watched him play in college. I could dig up the countless hours of him handling the ball in Duke's offense, but I'll just steal this quote from the CBS Sportsline scouting report on him.



A versatile big man, McRoberts was considered by the Duke coaching staff to be one of the most skilled and athletic post players in the country. An outstanding passer, he also has the ability to bring the ball up the floor.

Here are some positive in their report:


Positives: Versatile left-handed shooter with a strong defensive Personality and the ability to log minutes at power forward or possibly center..Instinctive player with good court vision and passing ability, ranking second on the squad with 142 assists...

Very first thing under negatives

Negatives: Despite his size, he can be overmatched when working inside..

The guy has never been an interior presence on offense. I know I'm right about this. It's not a question of maybe, and anyone who has followed his career would know he has shown the ability to shoot. In fact from that report...


Does not like playing with his back to the basket, as he shied away from contact at times in 2006-07, perhaps trying to protect his lumbar region that was operated on during the summer (also seemed to look very mechanical in his movement compared to previous seasons)...During his prep career, he was known for his long-range shooting ability


He has the tools to be a great defensive player and thus the comparison in this sportsline article to Ben Wallace, but look who they compare him to offensively...TROY MURPHY.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/draft/1225844

Defense, yes he is about hustle and crashing the boards and doing the dirty work, offensively he is a finesse forward and always has been. Go dig up some tape from him at Duke or Carmel. He had the ball in his hands a lot. Improving his shooting will only make him more dangerous if given the chance to create. That is and has been my point this whole time.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Why is it so difficult to understand ?

Josh will never be what Marion was is

in 05 Shawn Marion shot 28-60 3pointers IN THE PLAYOFFS.

You think McBob will get anywhere near that based on what?

I dont follow your reasoning

Why couldn't he? Tell me why he can't. How did Marion become that good of a three point shooter after shooting 18% his rookie year? I can assure you it wasn't because he was told not to practice threes. In fact that would be the exact opposite of what you would want him to do.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:49 PM
BTW, I'm diggin' up evidence all over the place suggesting Josh can become a good shooter, what exactly do you have that proves he CANNOT become a good shooter? You're blinded by your hate for O'Brien and not making any sense. Simple as that.

Part Timer
10-07-2010, 04:53 PM
Why is it so difficult to understand ?

Josh will never be what Marion was is

in 05 Shawn Marion shot 28-60 3pointers IN THE PLAYOFFS.

You think McBob will get anywhere near that based on what?

I dont follow your reasoning

I think that at the very least McRoberts is far from a finished product at the age of 23. When Marion came into the league he shot a woeful 18% and 26% in his first two years. He then improved on that, probably from the result of hard work. However, it must be said that for his career he is only a 33.5% shooter from behind the arc. Also, could you direct me to the reference indicating that he hit 28-60 3 pointers in the 05 postseason. Nba.com has it as 18-43 for the 04-05 playoffs. Again though, a career postseason of 33.9%.

Honestly, McRoberts wouldn't even have to be that good to match that rate.

BornReady
10-07-2010, 04:54 PM
BTW, I'm diggin' up evidence all over the place suggesting Josh can become a good shooter, what exactly do you have that proves he CANNOT become a good shooter? You're blinded by your hate for O'Brien and not making any sense. Simple as that.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Josh-McRoberts-14162

maybe thats a start

BillS
10-07-2010, 04:55 PM
One preseason game that we couldn't watch, talking about waiting for the real line up......

2-4 from 3 where one of the misses was a last-second shot doesn't sound like this ugly long-range shooter that was being talked about.

Sure, this may be better than he ends up being, and the question then will be IF JOB pushes him away from the perimeter and back toward his strengths or IF JOB tries to "correct" his problems by having him camp at the 3 point line.

On the one side you have people absolutely positive he will do the latter because somehow JOB can't conceive of anyone not just shooting 3's.

I don't think that will happen, but the point is the judgment being levied on McRoberts. No, we can't call Josh a <i>great</i> 3-point shooter based on the first night, but we can't call him a <i>horrible</i> one either. We can't say he took too many 3's since he shot them at 50% and also did all the things people expected him to do at the rim and on defense.

Is the book closed? Of course not, but conclusions are being jumped and all I'm trying to do is keep it out of the extremes.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 04:57 PM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Josh-McRoberts-14162

maybe thats a start

That proves he can't become a good shooter? It suggests he already was a good shooter if anything...Unless he forgot how, here's the quote from 2004


Originally a shooting forward, McRoberts is using his talent to develop into a highly-skilled power forward. A strong rebounder and outlet passer, McRoberts also has power and skill. An above average athlete, he is efficient and can make big plays. McRoberts can finish with either hand in the post and has impressive up-and-under moves.Thanks for digging that up for me.

BornReady
10-07-2010, 05:03 PM
That proves he can't become a good shooter? It suggests he already was a good shooter if anything...Unless he forgot how, here's the quote from 2004

Thanks for digging that up for me.

uh...that was the intention...

your post was "can" not "can't"
:confused:

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 05:03 PM
Joe

im not saying he cant become a good 3 point shooter , I am just saying I doubt that will ever be the case though.

and again , hope I am wrong

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 05:05 PM
I don't think that will happen, but the point is the judgment being levied on McRoberts. No, we can't call Josh a <i>great</i> 3-point shooter based on the first night, but we can't call him a <i>horrible</i> one either. We can't say he took too many 3's since he shot them at 50% and also did all the things people expected him to do at the rim and on defense.

Yes he had 50% last night , thats great

but if you look at his career, nothing to me would indicate he could become that

Is he horrible at it? No Can he get better? Possibly

I just think he would be better utilized in other ways

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 05:46 PM
uh...that was the intention...

your post was "can" not "can't"
:confused:

Uh, no my post says there is no evidence to suggest that he cannot become a good shooter.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 05:47 PM
Joe

im not saying he cant become a good 3 point shooter , I am just saying I doubt that will ever be the case though.

and again , hope I am wrong

You've said multiple times in this thread that Josh can't be a good 3 point shooter, will never be a good three point shooter, and shouldn't even practice shooting the three.

McKeyFan
10-07-2010, 05:49 PM
Well, there's 1-9 or 1-11 or whatever it was in summer league.

But I get your point. I actually think he can be a decent shooter. I'm not as freaked out over McBob shooting on the perimeter once in a while as I am concerned that we get the ball down low much more often to Hungry Roy.

BornReady
10-07-2010, 06:31 PM
Uh, no my post says there is no evidence to suggest that he cannot become a good shooter.

You said you were digging up evidence and I helped you. Sorry for helping you

NapTonius Monk
10-07-2010, 06:45 PM
I want this guy fired so bad my &*&^% is hard.Ummm...:hmm::yikes:

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 06:56 PM
You said you were digging up evidence and I helped you. Sorry for helping you

My bad. I misunderstood your post. Thanks

90'sNBARocked
10-07-2010, 07:03 PM
Ummm...:hmm::yikes:

Sorry just using a line from an old movie new jack city

My apologies to any offended

vnzla81
10-07-2010, 07:18 PM
here are all the highlights from yesterday

http://www.nba.com/video/games/grizzlies/2010/10/06/0011000013_ind_mem_recap.nba/index.html

NapTonius Monk
10-07-2010, 07:19 PM
Sorry just using a line from an old movie new jack city

My apologies to any offendedI think Josh is working to be the most effective player he can be playing off Roy. That doesn't mean he becomes our 6'10 shooting guard, where plays are designed for him to shoot 3's. But if he finds himself out there, he at least is trying to make himself a credible threat.

Justin Tyme
10-07-2010, 08:57 PM
As opposed too

4 years of undeachieving


You keep saying 4 years when he's only coached the Pacers 3 seasons.

36-46
36-46
32-50

010-011 season will be his 4th and LAST season coaching the Pacers.

vnzla81
10-07-2010, 09:07 PM
You keep saying 4 years when he's only coached the Pacers 3 seasons.

36-46
36-46
32-50

010-011 season will be his 4th and LAST season coaching the Pacers.

I think he is expecting this year to sux ;) and make it 4 years.
JOB's record looks good by the way he should get four more.

Sookie
10-07-2010, 09:24 PM
here are all the highlights from yesterday

http://www.nba.com/video/games/grizzlies/2010/10/06/0011000013_ind_mem_recap.nba/index.html

Nice!

I loved the dunk after Collison's missed layup. Awesome hustle and athleticism from Josh. He also made a fantastic pass to Darren.

Nice crossover from a kid who broke his kneecap 4 months ago. :P He still clearly doesn't get as much lift on his jumper though.

Roy looks slimmer and faster (I'm sure he is.)

George looked like he was pushing that three point shot. He's just gotta adjust to the range (or shoot midrange..) I really hope he plays a big part in the rotation this season.

Peck
10-07-2010, 09:31 PM
My God why did I ever open up this thread?

bballpacen
10-07-2010, 11:22 PM
It's clear you never watched him play in college. I could dig up the countless hours of him handling the ball in Duke's offense, but I'll just steal this quote from the CBS Sportsline scouting report on him.
Cant say much, as I did not see him play much with the Dukies...


Here are some positive in their report:
Just b/c the man has good passing abilities and can see the floor well does not mean that he is a 3pt threat... God help us if Roy starts working on his 3 point shot... lol...

Very first thing under negatives
So dont you think that this is something that he should be focusing on more than an outside shoot??

The guy has never been an interior presence on offense. I know I'm right about this. It's not a question of maybe, and anyone who has followed his career would know he has shown the ability to shoot. In fact from that report...
I will ask you were you get the idea that he has the ability to shoot from behind the arch... As I posted earlier, he rarely took the 3 up to this point in his career(including @ Duke)... And he made a lousy percentage of those attempts...


Defense, yes he is about hustle and crashing the boards and doing the dirty work, offensively he is a finesse forward and always has been. Go dig up some tape from him at Duke or Carmel. He had the ball in his hands a lot. Improving his shooting will only make him more dangerous if given the chance to create. That is and has been my point this whole time.I agree that an improved jump shot could be beneficial to his game... But if he is going to rely on a 3 for a large part of his offensive contributions, I think that is a mistake... And if he does, which I think that he will this year, that mistake should fall upon Obie for encouraging it...
We dont need a PF to be able to step out and hoist a 3, and that is the biggest argument here... We just off loaded one from our roster... We have plenty of threats from long range if you are worried about spacing... If McBob wants to shoot from 15-20 feet, then I am comfortable with him doing so... I think he can shoot that shoot at a much greater percentage, and will be more effective...

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 11:26 PM
Where have I ever said that Josh should rely on the three point shot as his primary offensive threat?

My argument has been this whole time that Josh is a perimeter player, has been his entire career, and that improving his outside shot will only benefit him in that way.

I never said let's make him Reggie Miller or Troy Murphy.

BTW teams with a "stretch 4" on the roster have been pretty successful recently, Odom for the Lakers, R. Lewis on the Magic, heck even KG relies on his jumper now more than ever. All of the past champions of this decade had had at least one big who can hit the three, Sheed, Horry, Odom, etc.

I'm not saying you have to have a stretch 4 or that they should be the focal point of the offense, but y'all act like you're scared of having a 4 who can hit the three.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 11:34 PM
And I think we've probably beat the horse to death by now, we'll just have to wait and see, but as long as Josh continues his wire, high energy act, I could give two ****s if he shoots a few 3s a game as long as he hits them at a decent clip, which I think he can.

bballpacen
10-07-2010, 11:40 PM
You did not say that he should rely upon it... But I think that is what is being put into his ear. Or maybe he knows that is the best way for him to get into Obie's rotation, from watching the past 3 years of Murphy... Or Walker in Boston under Obie...

Personally, I want to see Josh work more on banging down low than putting up 3pt attempts... Or putting up some 15-20ft shoots... The 3pt shoot for Josh should be the icing on top of his game... I personally rank it very low in importance for Josh, even though it would be "nice..."

bballpacen
10-07-2010, 11:41 PM
And I think we've probably beat the horse to death by now, we'll just have to wait and see, but as long as Josh continues his wire, high energy act, I could give two ****s if he shoots a few 3s a game as long as he hits them at a decent clip, which I think he can.
Lets clarify for me please... What do you consider A FEW, and what is considered a DECENT clip??

Anthem
10-07-2010, 11:59 PM
Lets clarify for me please... What do you consider A FEW, and what is considered a DECENT clip??
I'm the anti-stretch-forward guy around here, and I'd say 2-4 is a decent percentage at a few shots.

Hicks
10-08-2010, 12:44 AM
.500 from 3 is just decent? Tough crowd.

owl
10-08-2010, 03:26 AM
I agree that an improved jump shot could be beneficial to his game... But if he is going to rely on a 3 for a large part of his offensive contributions, I think that is a mistake... And if he does, which I think that he will this year, that mistake should fall upon Obie for encouraging it...
We dont need a PF to be able to step out and hoist a 3, and that is the biggest argument here... We just off loaded one from our roster... We have plenty of threats from long range if you are worried about spacing... If McBob wants to shoot from 15-20 feet, then I am comfortable with him doing so... I think he can shoot that shoot at a much greater percentage, and will be more effective...



The Pacers were 9-29 against Memphis. If Josh can hit 40% it should at least be part
of his repetoire. I am not so sure if our 3 point shooting is that great. 31% is not good
enough. Many games last year the Pacers shot themselves out of games it seems like.
I would sure like to see an inside-out game this year with the open 3 being a benefit
of that.

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 10:17 AM
Lets clarify for me please... What do you consider A FEW, and what is considered a DECENT clip??

If he shoots ~3 three pointers a game at ~35% I will be content, assuming that he continues to crash the boards, use his passing ability, and create off the dribble. Which I think he will. He's too good of an athlete to float around the perimeter like Troy would.

Also, while I want Josh to be able to score in the post if needed, I'd much rather he continue to operate in the high post along with Roy, and that when Roy goes down to the low block to take someone one on one, I hope Josh can step out and create room for him. We don't need him clogging the lane when we iso Roy.

cordobes
10-08-2010, 11:18 AM
Dudely shoots threes. Varajeo is a great defender. Birdman is a great shot blocker.

McBob doesn't have the same defense ceiling as varajeo, not the same shotblocking ceiling as birdman, but the same 3pt shooting ceiling as dudley

And they rebound (except Dudley, but he's more of a wing player).

Rebounding is important for guys who want to make a career as "energy players". You need to offer more besides energy and running the floor. How many big men role-players who a) can't shoot from distance b) are poor rebounders c) aren't big time defenders d) aren't 7ft or taller stay in the league for more than a couple of years?

That's why the outside shooting is so important to McRoberts, gives him something to rely on and fits well with the rest of his game as a face-up 4.


Or putting up some 15-20ft shoots... The 3pt shoot for Josh should be the icing on top of his game... I personally rank it very low in importance for Josh, even though it would be "nice..."

That would be the (infamous) Luol Deng way. Is there any good reason to prioritize long 2s over 3s unless the players is absolutely incapable of extending his shooting range? I can't think of one. Assuming McRoberts becomes a 37% 3pt shooter, he'd need to become the one of the best jump-shooters in the league from 17-20ft to be as efficient.

imawhat
10-08-2010, 11:22 AM
That's why the outside shooting is so important to McRoberts, gives him something to rely on and fits well with the rest of his game as a face-up 4.

IMO he should be relying on his speed and dribbling ability; both are well above average at his position. They'll create far better plays for the team than any three pointer he'll ever shoot.

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 11:53 AM
It's impossible to use your speed and ball handling if your defender doesn't respect your jump shot and gives you 5-6 feet, it's not rocket science. And Josh isn't that fast for a power forward especially not in this style of league. It's his ball handling that really set him apart, and if he wants it to be as effective as it can be, he needs a jump shot that defenses are forced to respect. Period.

Day-V
10-08-2010, 11:55 AM
.500 from 3 is just decent? Tough crowd.

Right? If that's the case, they should just get rid of the line altogether. Larry Bird couldn't even hit that mark.

imawhat
10-08-2010, 12:02 PM
It's impossible to use your speed and ball handling if your defender doesn't respect your jump shot and gives you 5-6 feet, it's not rocket science. And Josh isn't that fast for a power forward especially not in this style of league. It's his ball handling that really set him apart, and if he wants it to be as effective as it can be, he needs a jump shot that defenses are forced to respect. Period.

That's only if he's playing near the arc, which I'm not suggesting.

He should be at the elbow or on the baseline at 15 ft, where defenders are called for defensive three seconds if they sag off of their opponent. At that point he'll be guarded closely and will be able to get around most PF defenders.

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 12:04 PM
That's only if he's playing near the arc, which I'm not suggesting.

He should be at the elbow or on the baseline at 15 ft, where defenders are called for defensive three seconds if they sag off of their opponent. At that point he'll be guarded closely and will be able to get around most PF defenders.

I absolutely follow that, but I do think there will be times when Josh ends up around the three point line, it will happen in the motion offense.

Another place Josh having a respectable three could be useful is in the pick and roll game we will hopefully use with Collison. If Josh can shoot the ball, he can roll either way. He can head towards the hoop after setting a pick or pop out for a jumper. It's another way to keep the defense off balance.

BillS
10-08-2010, 12:06 PM
That's only if he's playing near the arc, which I'm not suggesting.

He should be at the elbow or on the baseline at 15 ft, where defenders are called for defensive three seconds if they sag off of their opponent. At that point he'll be guarded closely and will be able to get around most PF defenders.

I think you misunderstand the defensive 3 second rule. You can sag off a certain distance, and you can double-team. You just can't be in no-man's-land.

cordobes
10-08-2010, 12:14 PM
IMO he should be relying on his speed and dribbling ability; both are well above average at his position. They'll create far better plays for the team than any three pointer he'll ever shoot.

Like whom? Who are the successful face-up 4s in the league who cant' shoot, don't rebound/defend at a very high level? That player is Big Baby Davis before he worked on his jumper. A deep reserve.

If he doesn't shoot, he won't blow by anyone regardless of his speed + he'd need the ball on his hands more to impact a game.

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 02:00 PM
Like whom? Who are the successful face-up 4s in the league who cant' shoot, don't rebound/defend at a very high level? That player is Big Baby Davis before he worked on his jumper. A deep reserve.

If he doesn't shoot, he won't blow by anyone regardless of his speed + he'd need the ball on his hands more to impact a game.

Yes but if he is historically shot the 3 at a poor rate, I would rather he focus on other things that play to his strengths

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 02:06 PM
Yes but if he is historically shot the 3 at a poor rate, I would rather he focus on other things that play to his strengths

You still have dodged this question...
Shawn Marion shot 18% from 3 his rookie year and 25% from 3 his second year, but yet in your opinion he is now a 3 point threat. Why couldn't Josh improve the same way?

You used Marion as an example of a player Josh could never be, but yet he was not always a good 3 point shooter like you claimed.

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 02:18 PM
You still have dodged this question...
Shawn Marion shot 18% from 3 his rookie year and 25% from 3 his second year, but yet in your opinion he is now a 3 point threat. Why couldn't Josh improve the same way?

You used Marion as an example of a player Josh could never be, but yet he was not always a good 3 point shooter like you claimed.

Im not dodging anything

Marion at least had that in his aresnal, even at a low percentage

McBob has taken under double digits , I believe his entire career

We could argue back and forth all day with this but its pointless because its subjective

I think McBob should not focus at all on his 3 point shot, and dont believe he will ever be consistent enough from 3 to justify practicing it

You disagree with the above staement . Cool

Lets revisit in January

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 02:22 PM
He had it in his arsenal?

So let me get this straight if someone goes out on to an NBA court and shoots 100 3s and only makes 5 of them, then they have it in their arsenal?

And Marion took something like 20 threes his rookie year and then took 80 his second year. Probably because he PRACTICED his shot, which is what Josh should do.

Your logic is weak as hell, I'm sorry.

Unclebuck
10-08-2010, 02:23 PM
Marion at least had that in his aresnal, even at a low percentage



How does that make any sense?

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 02:23 PM
How does that make any sense?

God, thank you. I felt like I was taking crazy pills as I tried to make sense of that post.

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 03:14 PM
God, thank you. I felt like I was taking crazy pills as I tried to make sense of that post.

Im done with you

A conversation is cool but even when I try and agree to disagree

you just want to go back and forth and its boring and personal now

Peace

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 03:16 PM
I'm sorry that your last post does not make any sense.

You can't say that Shawn Marion "had it in his arsenal" when he was shooting 18% from behind the 3 pt line. That makes literally zero sense. You couldn't defend it if you tried.

count55
10-08-2010, 03:19 PM
I'm sorry that your last post does not make any sense.

You can't say that Shawn Marion "had it in his arsenal" when he was shooting 18% from behind the 3 pt line. That makes literally zero sense. You couldn't defend it if you tried.

You could defend it, as long as you had no problem speaking out of your arsenal.

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 03:23 PM
How does that make any sense?

It makes sense because

Shawn Marion
2001-02 23 PHO NBA 81 81 3109 654 1395 .469 48 122 .393 191 226 .845 211 592 803 162 149

In bold are his stats from year 3, almost 40% a clip

His first season 4 22 .182

His second season 21 82 .256

Progression


Josh Mc Roberts
Career NBA 83 3 831 117 239 .490 8 34 .235 29 51 .569 68 143 211 62 30 32 33 116 271

So based on that information I dont see any reason to think he can ever become a good 3 point shooter

Marion took more 3 pointers in his first year(almost) than McBobs career

point being Shawn was taking those from day 1

Alas, Im done

Im tired of people acting highschoolish trying to run behind each post and hit "thanks"

Having a discussion is fine, going out of your way to beat down and insult is not

So yes, Jim O Brien is the coach of a lifetime and I am completly off base and McBob will lead the league in 3pt shooting percentage

Now all those agaist me can go and cuddle

I am so off base for suggesting Obrien sux and McBob shouldnt work on 3's

This board is turning from polite conversation to chosing sides and attacking

whatever

Since86
10-08-2010, 03:32 PM
Well to be fair, McRoberts hasn't gotten any real significant minutes. Hansborough played only 14mins less than Josh did all of last season. His first year in the league he played all of 28 mins, and only 279mins his second year.

There really isn't any statistical evidence to back up any claim.

I know we've heard his shot looks different, but that should be your angle of attack, IMHO. His shot mechanics last year are no where near reliable. Sure there are flat shooters that can shoot pretty good, but they're rare. Changing the mechanics of your shot is a very lengthy process. You have to erase years and years and years of muscle memory, and reprogram your muscles into a new motion. It takes a lot of work.

I think we can all agree that McRobert's shooting style that we've seen in the past isn't designed to be a good outside shooter. His shot is, or was I guess, just way too flat.

EDIT: And I think his FT% backs that up. Not all good FT shooters are good shooters in other areas, but I don't think I can think of one player that was an awful FT shooter but a good shooter from the floor. Obviously I'm leaving out post players like Shaq or Dwight that shoot a high percentage. I'm talking about players who actually shoot jump shots.

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 03:37 PM
The only one acting "high schoolish" is you by basically saying I'm taking my ball and going home....

The only reason Marion had that progression is because he practiced it, which you are saying Josh shouldn't do, which I'm sorry makes no sense.

My point when this all started was there is nothing wrong with Josh practicing his 3 point shot and shooting it occasionally, that is not an extreme that is somewhere in the middle.

Your position is an extreme, you say Josh should never shoot the 3 and even worse you would encourage him not to practice it. That line of thought is completely off track with anything a basketball coach would ever preach or teach.

vnzla81
10-08-2010, 03:44 PM
:inbeforethelock:

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 03:55 PM
The only one acting "high schoolish" is you by basically saying I'm taking my ball and going home....

The only reason Marion had that progression is because he practiced it, which you are saying Josh shouldn't do, which I'm sorry makes no sense.

My point when this all started was there is nothing wrong with Josh practicing his 3 point shot and shooting it occasionally, that is not an extreme that is somewhere in the middle.

Your position is an extreme, you say Josh should never shoot the 3 and even worse you would encourage him not to practice it. That line of thought is completely off track with anything a basketball coach would ever preach or teach.

Look man if your going to quote me be accurate . I never said he should never shot the 3 EVER. Pull a quote where I said this . I can tell you love this crap so since we cant meet face to face to settle it then

Then put some money where you're m'fin mouth is

I will drive down to Nap and put 200.00 that by end of the first quarter of the season, McBob has shoots less than 33% from downtown

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 04:02 PM
Look man if your going to quote me be accurate . I never said he should never shot the 3 EVER. Pull a quote where I said this . I can tell you love this crap so since we cant meet face to face to settle it then

Then put some money where you're m'fin mouth is

I will drive down to Nap and put 200.00 that by end of the first quarter of the season, McBob has shoots less than 33% from downtown

Are you kidding? I already pulled a quote where you said you would never want him shooting a 3, even if he was open. In that same quote you also said you wouldn't want him practicing the three.

And no, I'm not going to make a $200 bet with someone over the internet. Give me a break.

vnzla81
10-08-2010, 04:04 PM
:inbeforethelock2:

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 04:04 PM
Your right I DONT WANT JOSH PRACTICING A 3!!



BTW, here's a good quote from this thread. Since you wanted one.

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 04:05 PM
So your choice would be for a coach to tell a player "don't work on that aspect of your game, if you work on it don't use it, and definitely if you have a wide open makeable shot don't take it"?





So your choice would be for a coach to tell a player "don't work on that aspect of your game, if you work on it don't use it, and definitely if you have a wide open makeable shot don't take it"?


You are correct

Someone like McBob, I would absolutely NOT want shooting 3's and no Jim is not trying to make McBob into Troy, but rather make McBob into the tyoe of "stretch 4 " he likes


You wanted the quotes, there are the quotes. BillS pretty much gives you a straight forward question, and you say he is correct in his belief that you would want Jim to tell Josh, in your perfect Pacer world, to not even attempt to take a wide open, makeable shot.

Part Timer
10-08-2010, 04:06 PM
Look man if your going to quote me be accurate . I never said he should never shot the 3 EVER. Pull a quote where I said this . I can tell you love this crap so since we cant meet face to face to settle it then

Then put some money where you're m'fin mouth is

I will drive down to Nap and put 200.00 that by end of the first quarter of the season, McBob has shoots less than 33% from downtown

Since accuracy is important to you, can you please direct me to the source that indicates Marion went 28-60 from behind the 3-point line in the 05 playoffs?

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 04:10 PM
BTW, here's a good quote from this thread. Since you wanted one.

Yep exactly my point

I said PRACTICING

You said, that I said " I NEVER WANT JOSH SHOOTING A 3

whatever this is borng

When Josh starts lighting it up from dowtown , holla atcha boy

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 04:11 PM
Did you read that second quote I posted? Because that is exactly what you said.

And it's even more asinine to say that you never want him practicing 3's. I guess when the rest of the team does shooting drills, Josh should sit out and twiddle his thumbs.

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Did you read that second quote I posted? Because that is exactly what you said.

And it's even more asinine to say that you never want him practicing 3's. I guess when the rest of the team does shooting drills, Josh should sit out and twiddle his thumbs.

Notice how you cut off the sentence you are referring to as the last word is the letter a

Anyway where's your 200?

Part Timer
10-08-2010, 04:19 PM
Well to be fair, McRoberts hasn't gotten any real significant minutes. Hansborough played only 14mins less than Josh did all of last season. His first year in the league he played all of 28 mins, and only 279mins his second year.

There really isn't any statistical evidence to back up any claim.



You probably didn't need to say any more than this. Time will tell, but I find it strange that anyone would suggest he not try to improve a skill as fundamental as shooting the basketball.

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Notice how you cut off the sentence you are referring to as the last word is the letter a

Anyway where's your 200?

I left the letter a on accident, but I put in the rest of that sentence which doesn't change the context of the fact that you said you don't want Josh to shoot a 3 even if he is wide open and it is a shot he can make.

Please stand up for your position. You're not even capable of admitting or remembering what you said.

Why should I put up cash against yours?

And here I'll put the quote in again, and again with my caption just so maybe you'll actually admit to what you said.



So your choice would be for a coach to tell a player "don't work on that aspect of your game, if you work on it don't use it, and definitely if you have a wide open makeable shot don't take it"?


You are correct

Someone like McBob, I would absolutely NOT want shooting 3's and no Jim is not trying to make McBob into Troy, but rather make McBob into the tyoe of "stretch 4 " he likes


You wanted the quotes, there are the quotes. BillS pretty much gives you a straight forward question, and you say he is correct in his belief that you would want Jim to tell Josh, in your perfect Pacer world, to not even attempt to take a wide open, makeable shot.

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 04:30 PM
weak

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 04:31 PM
weak

That would be my response too when someone proved that I couldn't even remember what I said earlier in the thread.

If you're going to make a statement you should at least stand by it, take ownership of it, not run from it. It's called personal responsibility.

I'm still laughing at the "m'fin let's put down 200 bucks on it" bit. That's classic, perhaps afterward we can have a pissing contest.

dohman
10-08-2010, 04:37 PM
So everyone knows.. this is preseason and we play the magic tonight :)

We are all entitled to our own opinions even if everyone else other than me is wrong.

Hicks
10-08-2010, 04:38 PM
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Dr. Awesome
10-08-2010, 04:41 PM
I stopped posting here reguraly because Trader Joe and his shenanigans....yes, shenanigans. When I called him on it I got a warning, followed by PM's thanking me. And here he is, still getting away with it...

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 04:42 PM
I stopped posting here reguraly because Trader Joe and his shenanigans....yes, shenanigans. When I called him on it I got a warning, followed by PM's thanking me. And here he is, still getting away with it...

I don't even know who you are?

And I'm not sure of any incident that you're referring to.

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 04:42 PM
That would be my response too when someone proved that I couldn't even remember what I said earlier in the thread.

If you're going to make a statement you should at least stand by it, take ownership of it, not run from it. It's called personal responsibility.

I'm still laughing at the "m'fin let's put down 200 bucks on it" bit. That's classic, perhaps afterward we can have a pissing contest.

Joe,

Check my last post under the thread about the boy with no arms/legs

Thanks

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 04:43 PM
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Please see my post under the thread about the young boy with no arms/legs

Thanks

Trader Joe
10-08-2010, 04:46 PM
Joe,

Check my last post under the thread about the boy with no arms/legs

Thanks

I never had any hard feelings...and I'm not even mad.

Better watch out for my shenanigans though.

Anthem
10-08-2010, 05:01 PM
.500 from 3 is just decent? Tough crowd.
EDIT: Whoops, didn't realize I was the last post in the thread. I hereby remove my content and hope this thread finds its way to page 2 quickly.

90'sNBARocked
10-08-2010, 06:02 PM
I never had any hard feelings...and I'm not even mad.

Better watch out for my shenanigans though.

:)

imawhat
10-09-2010, 03:09 PM
I think you misunderstand the defensive 3 second rule. You can sag off a certain distance, and you can double-team. You just can't be in no-man's-land.

You cannot sag off your man more than a few feet when your opponent is at 10-15 feet. You'll get called for defensive three even if you're not guilty, which is my point.

imawhat
10-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Like whom? Who are the successful face-up 4s in the league who cant' shoot, don't rebound/defend at a very high level? That player is Big Baby Davis before he worked on his jumper. A deep reserve.

If he doesn't shoot, he won't blow by anyone regardless of his speed + he'd need the ball on his hands more to impact a game.

He defends at a high level imo, so we disagree on that. We also disagree on whether or not Josh can consistently hit a 10-15 ft shot, which he can.

Josh gets pretty low when he dribbles, which is why he's able to get around most 4s, even from a short distance. That is his #1 advantage as a scorer hands down and I've seen it work successfully several times.