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View Full Version : Promise keepers? Let's hope Pacers can change their world/Bob Kravitz



vnzla81
10-06-2010, 07:25 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20101006/SPORTS15/10060314/


Promise keepers? Let's hope Pacers can change their world

When it comes to marketing campaigns, the Indiana Pacers haven't gotten a lot of breaks in recent seasons.

I can still remember 2006, when billboards went up around the city saying, "It's up to us." They weren't out there more than 10 minutes when Stephen Jackson and some other players were involved in an ugly strip-club incident that involved a bit of gunplay.
It's up to us? Actually, it was up to the prosecutor at that point.
So this year, the Pacers marketing folks have come up with "The Promise" -- which sounds like a Nicholas Sparks book. "Protect The Promise," they are saying, and then a handful of Pacers are telling you what those generic promises are. Although I'm concerned when they say, "We promise to play Pacers basketball," which sounds like more of a threat to me.
Better, I guess, than, "Pacers basketball: Where mediocrity happens."
Anyway, all of this got me to thinking about some promises I would like to see fulfilled by the Pacers, and one promise I will make to the Pacers organization:
Promise to be relevant for the first time since The Brawl. Nobody is demanding a winning season. Nobody is saying they have to be a .500 team or even make the playoffs. Just be relevant. Just be interesting. Just be entertaining, the way they were two years ago when they competed in every game, only to lose late.
Last year's first two home games -- losses to Miami and Denver -- were among the more depressing, dispiriting efforts I've seen in my 10 years here. And it never got any better. They were bad and boring -- at least until the last month of the season, when they blew a high lottery choice once again. People in this town are dying for a reason to return to Conseco Fieldhouse. Give them one.
Promise to stay out of trouble. This franchise has done a great job off the court in recent years, only to suffer a setback with the Lance Stephenson mess and Brandon Rush's drug suspension. This city has had enough, and it's unfair to the majority of great guys who've done all the right things for this team.

Promise to stop talking about defense and start playing some.

We heard it again from coach Jim O'Brien on the eve of tonight's preseason opener at Memphis; this team still isn't dedicated to playing NBA-quality defense.
And there's no excuse. This team has a lot better pure athletes than the team that went to the 2000 NBA Finals. But that veteran group knew how to play team defense. This group, still . . . no clue. And yes, Danny Granger, team leader, I'm looking at you.
Promise to let Darren Collison be Darren Collison. He is one of the best pick-and-roll point guards in the league, and O'Brien must let Collison initiate the offense off the pick-and-roll. Make your coaching philosophy fit the talent, not the other way around.
Promise to bring back Bowser. I don't think Boomer's ever gotten over it.
Promise to give Roy Hibbert every chance to reach his potential as a top-tier center. O'Brien has said his offense will go through the leaner, meaner Hibbert this season. Let's see him remain true to his word and stay committed to that approach.
And another thing: When the Pacers play against those Euro-centers who play on the perimeter, start and play Hibbert and make the opponent pay for the mismatch on the other end.
Promise to hold Rush accountable for the way he plays. Kindergarten is over. It's past time worrying about his fragile confidence. Either he can cut it or he can't. He says he's ready to atone for having earned a five-game drug suspension. Fine. We're waiting.
Promise to make the starting power forward spot Josh McRoberts' to lose. According to people who watch practice every day, McRoberts has been the team's best player. Let's see what he can do with meaningful minutes.
Promise to let the assistant coaches coach. O'Brien says every year he will give his assistants more of a voice, and every year, his voice ends up being the only one anybody hears.
Nobody doubts who's in charge. Tuesday, he was all over his players, taking them to task for playing soft, for taking dumb shots, for failing to execute plays.
Players, though, get tired of hearing the same things from the same person.
Promise to grow. This franchise has been in a holding pattern in recent years, and for very good reason: It has been locked in salary-cap purgatory, and it's only now starting to get out from under all those onerous contracts.
It's time to start building toward something. If Indiana can establish a foundation of decent, young players, then use its coming salary-cap advantage to make more Collison-like trades or grab a free agent, the Pacers will be a playoff team down the road.
And my promise?
If they fulfill their promises, I promise to get off their case.
That simple.

BRushWithDeath
10-06-2010, 07:32 PM
Really good article by Kravitz.

McKeyFan
10-06-2010, 07:38 PM
Sounds like Kravitz doesn't trust JOB's coachspeak.

vnzla81
10-06-2010, 07:40 PM
Sounds like Kravitz doesn't trust JOB's coachspeak.

Him and Mike Wells don't sound like they trust JOB.

cdash
10-06-2010, 07:58 PM
Right on the money here. Well done by Kravitz, I can't say there is anything I disagree with here.

Bball
10-06-2010, 08:26 PM
In 49 states it's basketball... but we've got Jim O'Brien.

I have zero percent faith O'Brien will change anything regardless of having a new team and new season. I'd still fire him right now if it was me just because I have so little faith in him.

"Shoot the three and forget the D"

flox
10-06-2010, 08:30 PM
O'Brien knows more about basketball than Kravitz does. Ignore this fool.

Anthem
10-06-2010, 08:43 PM
Actually, the Finals team didn't play awesome defense either. They were definitely built around O.

sportfireman
10-06-2010, 08:47 PM
O'Brien knows more about basketball than Kravitz does. Ignore this fool.

Says the man with Flim as his sig pic.

BringJackBack
10-06-2010, 09:17 PM
Jim may be smarter and have all his sources and all that...

but he still has no common sense

PacersandIU
10-06-2010, 11:31 PM
Kravitz is like the Simon Cowell of the Pacers- regardless of new "promises" and such, he steps in with a dose of reality for everyone. It's refreshing to get that reality check once in a while.

I really don't trust OB though- he hasn't shown himself to be able to adapt... He's so set on winning that he doesn't want to buy into LB's 3-year rebuild idea. If he wanted to develop players, Hibbert and Rush would have played every game last year (with meaningful minutes). Instead, he wasted minutes on Dahntay Jones and Troy Murphy... </rant>

What I'm getting at is that OB doesn't understand that he's in the position to develop players and try to win a few games, but instead, he's playing a bunch of experienced role players and failing to fix the obvious problems in his coaching philosophy.

Unclebuck
10-07-2010, 08:33 AM
Actually, the Finals team didn't play awesome defense either. They were definitely built around O.

Exactly right. if you looked at all the defensive stats, I would guess last years Pacers team and the 2000 Pacers team would be about equal. Of course I am not a stats guy and I'll fully admit that the 2000 team was probably more experienced and more capable of stepping up the defense when needed.

Trophy
10-07-2010, 08:36 AM
Very good statements by Kravitz and I agree with him.

Putnam
10-07-2010, 08:46 AM
.



Move right along. There's nothing to see here.




.

Unclebuck
10-07-2010, 08:57 AM
I'm coming up with different stats, although i found something else about the 2000 season much much more interesting and revealing.

Stats -

2000
pts given up per game - 96.7
defensive FG% .446
3 pt FG% - .327

2010
pts given up per game - 103
defensive FG% - .453
3 pt fg% - .363

That really tells us nothing we need to also look into league rank. I recall Pacers league rank in 2000 was average -


But that is not the interesting part -

In 2000 the Pacers had 6 players play in 80 game or more. Another player played 79 games and Dale davis played 74 games and those 8 players were the best players on the team.

Compare that to 2010 - Only 2 players played more than 80 games and only 3 played more than 70 games.

Anthem
10-07-2010, 11:58 AM
Pacers Defensive Rating and opponents' FG%, from Basketball Reference:


in 99-00

97.2 (3rd)
.432


in 09-10

106.8 (14th)
.458



It looks like there was a bit of difference. I never saw the 2000 team play, though, and I'm sure Buck's and Anthem's assessment has something to it, but these figures suggest a difference.
I'm not saying there was no difference. But our starting lineup had Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, Jalen Rose, Dale Davis, and Rik Smits. It was not a defensive powerhouse.

It's not like the Finals team was awful, defensively, but their claim to fame was their offensive execution. The defense was just good enough to let the offense win the game.

McKeyFan
10-07-2010, 12:11 PM
I'm not saying there was no difference. But our starting lineup had Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, Jalen Rose, Dale Davis, and Rik Smits. It was not a defensive powerhouse.

It's not like the Finals team was awful, defensively, but their claim to fame was their offensive execution. The defense was just good enough to let the offense win the game.

And, to be honest, I did not like that team nearly as much as the mid-90's teams.

They lived and died by the jump shot. In the finals, they died quickly.

MyFavMartin
10-07-2010, 12:52 PM
Part of the responsibility of player development is on the player. Roy worked hard this summer and I think JOB is respecting that.

I'm excited about the new additions and not to worried about JOB. He's in his last year and we're not a top 10 team... yet. We can choose to be cynical like Kravitz or optimistic and respect what TPTB have done... I read the Collison trade described as "the trade of the summer." The Pacers are exiting their rebuilding process (at least nearing it) and now we just need to growing together.

Look forward, not behind.

flox
10-07-2010, 01:15 PM
lol I wouldn't call Kravitz one of the best PnR guards in the game. Really Kravitz? come on now. That's hyperbole.

And versus those Euro-Centers- bah come on. Do you really think Hibbert can guard them? For every three they make Roy scores 2- and thats how we win the game right?

And hey Kravitz- we would have grown if we drafted good players. Rush? Tyler? smh.

Come on Kravitz- you can cry all you want but come back to reality a bit.

spazzxb
10-07-2010, 04:45 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20101006/SPORTS15/10060314/

aren't promise keepers a group of republican politicians who have a tendency to get caught cheating on there wives will pretending to be more moral than everyone else?

serious question not an attack

BillS
10-07-2010, 04:59 PM
aren't promise keepers a group of republican politicians who have a tendency to get caught cheating on there wives will pretending to be more moral than everyone else?

serious question not an attack

No. It is a Christian Men's organization that tries to correct how men live their lives and turn it into evangelism. http://www.promisekeepers.org/

I don't agree with all of its precepts, but like any religion the failures of its members should not necessarily be taken as faults of the ideal.

spazzxb
10-07-2010, 05:05 PM
No. It is a Christian Men's organization that tries to correct how men live their lives and turn it into evangelism. http://www.promisekeepers.org/

I don't agree with all of its precepts, but like any religion the failures of its members should not necessarily be taken as faults of the ideal.

I just remember one of there members being all over the news in the last year or so. I think it was the guy hiking the Appalachian trail in Argentina.Really just found the articles title humorous.

Brad8888
10-07-2010, 05:08 PM
I just remember one of there members being all over the news in the last year or so. I think it was the guy hiking the Appalachian trail in Argentina.Really just found the articles title humorous.

Totally OT, but the members of Area 55 should have shirts printed with spazzxb's avatar. It is still one of my favorites here, and it would be in keeping with the wild and crazy spirit of Area 55, too.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-07-2010, 05:39 PM
Kravitz is your typical HATER journalist LOOKING for readership among the ignorant masses. He reads this forum, Indy Cornrows, and Mike Wells stuff and then tries to 'appear' that he knows what he's talking about. He just cites the usual 'suspects' and then grand-stands with his fancy-smancy writing. Even if we had the BIG three from Boston or Miami, this HATER journalist would still be 'stoking the fires' of Pacer fans with his garbage rhetoric. So, don't respond to this JERK. He's NOT the one busting his tail everyday. He's only a 'cheat-shop artist' and 'Monday-morning QB' trying to sell papers and AD space for the Indy Star with his hate journalism.

Day-V
10-07-2010, 05:49 PM
Kravitz is your typical HATER journalist LOOKING for readership among the ignorant masses. He reads this forum, Indy Cornrows, and Mike Wells stuff and then tries to 'appear' that he knows what he's talking about. He just cites the usual 'suspects' and then grand-stands with his fancy-smancy writing. Even if we had the BIG three from Boston or Miami, this HATER journalist would still be 'stoking the fires' of Pacer fans with his garbage rhetoric. So, don't respond to this JERK. He's NOT the one busting his tail everyday. He's only a 'cheat-shop artist' and 'Monday-morning QB' trying to sell papers and AD space for the Indy Star with his hate journalism.



I think you might wanna pump the brakes a bit on that one, Chief.

count55
10-07-2010, 05:59 PM
Pacers Defensive Rating and opponents' FG%, from Basketball Reference:


in 99-00

97.2 (3rd)
.432


in 09-10

106.8 (14th)
.458



It looks like there was a bit of difference. I never saw the 2000 team play, though, and I'm sure Buck's and Anthem's assessment has something to it, but these figures suggest a difference.

The 99-00 Def Rating was 103.6, or 13th.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2000.html

The numbers you're showing for 2000 are actually for 2004.

McKeyFan
10-07-2010, 10:05 PM
I just remember one of there members being all over the news in the last year or so. I think it was the guy hiking the Appalachian trail in Argentina.Really just found the articles title humorous.

Wrong group. You are talking about The Fellowship in D.C.

The PromiseKeepers, led by the former Colorado football coach, never had those scandals. In fact, they are kind of defunct now, as the coach didn't want to found an institution. It was just a movement for a time.

Anthem
10-07-2010, 10:13 PM
Wrong group. You are talking about The Fellowship in D.C.

The PromiseKeepers, led by the former Colorado football coach, never had those scandals. In fact, they are kind of defunct now, as the coach didn't want to found an institution. It was just a movement for a time.
And of course the Fellowship isn't necessarily a Republican phenomenon. Definitely crosses the aisle.

Anthem
10-07-2010, 10:15 PM
The 99-00 Def Rating was 103.6, or 13th.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2000.html

The numbers you're showing for 2000 are actually for 2004.
Nice find.

So the 2000 team was 13th, and last year's team was 14th. Nice job, Bob.

1984
10-07-2010, 10:32 PM
lol I wouldn't call Kravitz one of the best PnR guards in the game. Really Kravitz? come on now. That's hyperbole.

And versus those Euro-Centers- bah come on. Do you really think Hibbert can guard them? For every three they make Roy scores 2- and thats how we win the game right?

And hey Kravitz- we would have grown if we drafted good players. Rush? Tyler? smh.

Come on Kravitz- you can cry all you want but come back to reality a bit.

What then do you recommend?

I think Kravitz' point was: stop being the jelly fish who matches up with his opponent. You make your opponent match up with you. That is exactly what the 2000 team did. They didn't start Antonio Davis in order to make up for Smits' defensive liability. Rather, they said, "You deal with our freaking 7'4" giant."

On the issue of Collison Kravitz' is 100% correct. O'Brien has an opportunity to win me here (I know, that doesn't mean much. Though I do invest a lot of cash in the organization each year). I want O'Brien to show me that he is not about a system. I want O'Brien to show me he is about winning basketball games. If he will adapt to win, then I will support the guy.

BlueNGold
10-07-2010, 10:47 PM
Kravitz has provided a pretty nice summary....most of which is accurate. The fact he questions what comes out of JOb's mouth is not a new idea folks...and is not exactly surprising. Did he get that view from PD? Who knows? If he did, he probably agreed with whoever pointed it out....as have many others on PD who don't write for a rag.

BlueNGold
10-07-2010, 10:54 PM
On the issue of Collison Kravitz' is 100% correct. O'Brien has an opportunity to win me here (I know, that doesn't mean much. Though I do invest a lot of cash in the organization each year). I want O'Brien to show me that he is not about a system. I want O'Brien to show me he is about winning basketball games. If he will adapt to win, then I will support the guy.

This will determine whether JOb is extended or not. Whether you want to point to the inexplicable substitutions last year, the irrelevant garbage minute McBob transformation this year, DJones playing PF, the statements around the benching of Rush in favor of Stephen Graham...etc. Lots of stuff did not make sense last year or were things hardly believable. We (i.e. the fans) need this season to make more sense than last...

Bball
10-08-2010, 03:18 AM
We (i.e. the fans) need this season to make more sense than the previous three seasons...

Fixed...