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View Full Version : Did O'Brien ruin Ford?



pacers_heath
10-05-2010, 06:58 PM
Ford came here at about the same talent level or slightly better than Darren Collison came here with (although a little older). He looked to have all the tools to become an elite PG in the league and I remember seeing him on the NBA top 50 list when he was traded here.

He racked up the assists in every system until he got here. He came here after playing a few seasons in the league averaging about 7 assists per game for his career and looked to only get better having to not play behind Jose Calderon. He was young, talented, and a proven starting PG with sky's the limit.

However, he came here and struggled to find his game. He averaged 5.3 assists his first year and just 3.8 in his second season here. I remember a lot of games he'd get less assists than Rasho and Jeff Foster because the strategy seemed to be just toss the ball around until somebody was open. This is not what a PG is trained to do.

There's no doubt in my mind Ford would be getting 7 assists a game right now if he didn't come here. His assists dropped, his team lost, and ultimately, he lost confidence in himself.

My fear is, what if he spoils Darren Collison's chances at becoming a star because he's set on his "system" which has led him to loads of success as a coach.

Your thoughts?

BillS
10-05-2010, 07:06 PM
No.

Driving into traffic and then turning the ball over is not somehow something that JOB smashed into TJ Ford's head through subliminal messages or via direct instruction.

I have made this observation often - when players fail to move without the ball once certain ballhandlers have it it their hands, is it because they are told not to do so or is it because they know that if they move the ball will never get to them?

Having not watched who he was on the floor with in Toronto I can't make a complete statement about his assists there, though having people who can shoot from outside so that the defense can't afford to collapse on a high scorer like Bosh may have made a difference. However, I will say that losing his starting spot to Calderon and then getting traded away doesn't make me think he had some kind of huge upside.

And I don't think coaches "ruin" players.

d_c
10-05-2010, 07:06 PM
What's happened to Ford under JOB isn't anything that hasn't happened before under other coaches. It's the 3rd place where Ford was handed the starting PG job and then proceeded to lose it.

xBulletproof
10-05-2010, 07:10 PM
I'm slightly offended that you feel that TJ Ford has ever outplayed the half a season stretch that Collison had last year. Collison's ability to shoot alone puts him quite a bit ahead of Ford. That's ignoring his better ability to finish at the rim, run an offense, make good decisions and until last season Ford didn't play defense the way Collison does.

Ford played good defense last year. Most people ignore that.

BRushWithDeath
10-05-2010, 07:19 PM
TJ Ford ruined TJ Ford.

Sookie
10-05-2010, 07:20 PM
PG's can be efficient without being able to shoot.

The problem with Ford is that he's not a good decision maker. I think his speed in college allowed him to do whatever he wanted. In the Pros, he's just too small.

I also don't think this system is good for him. I don't think it'll be that great for Collison. (And I think the jury is still out on Collison, but that's only fair, as he's really only had a half a season of being a starting PG.)..but we've only got a year left, so that's okay. :P That being said, O'brien's offense is not the only reason why Ford stinks at being a PG.

Also, I thought many times he was a lazy defender. I distinctly remember him repeatedly running under screens for Heinrich. (Who would bury the jumper, every time.)

cordobes
10-05-2010, 07:38 PM
It was a contributing factor, but not the largest one.

O'Brien's job is not to take care of Ford's career anyway and it's not like he cut his development or something like that. He wasn't able to find a role for Ford to fill and motivate him to do so... but mostly due to Ford's incompetence and unwillingness to dedicate himself to seize whatever opportunities where there.

Ford only lost the starting spot in Toronto after getting injured but he recovered it after coming back (after lots of pouting and whining though). But he was Toronto's starting PG in the last playoff series they played.

I'm surprised Ford is still with the Pacers. Both parts should be looking for fresh starts.

count55
10-05-2010, 08:01 PM
No, but I did hear that he's responsible for global warming.

xBulletproof
10-05-2010, 08:06 PM
No, but I did hear that he's responsible for global warming.

That explains his hair changing to look like Storms! Starting with the sideburns of course ....

vnzla81
10-05-2010, 08:51 PM
yes................. he ruined Ford,Chevy,GMC,Chrysler and all the american car companies.

BlueNGold
10-05-2010, 08:57 PM
No. However, JOb's system is about the worst situation for TJ.

Ford has had ups and downs in the league and this is just a low point. He will surface again on another team and provide a little better value. He's doing himself a major favor by acting professionally and for being willing to be a backup. I think these facts will provide him with a better retirement income...

BTW, we all should have listened to ChicagoJ on this acquisition. He had TJ pegged from the beginning to a T.

Eleazar
10-05-2010, 09:00 PM
What's happened to Ford under JOB isn't anything that hasn't happened before under other coaches. It's the 3rd place where Ford was handed the starting PG job and then proceeded to lose it.

The only reason he lost the job in Toronto was because of an injury. In his one complete year with Toronto he was an excellent starter, and led the team to their only winning season while Bosh was there. Once Calderon started to take over he may have put up better stats, but the team never got close to 47 wins again.

The problem with non-elite PG's is that they are more hit or miss. They may do great in one system, but suck in another. Of any position they are the ones who are the most effected by the coach and system.

DrFife
10-05-2010, 09:01 PM
yes................. he ruined Ford,Chevy,GMC,Chrysler and all the american car companies.

Heyyy, wait a minute! Tom O'Brien doesn't own any Ford dealerships!

Jim R
10-06-2010, 10:17 AM
With Ford it's simple. He was never willing or able to see early reads in an offense. JOB's system does not require the PG to create every possession, but it's also not a "caretaker" position. In transition, Ford would rather hang on to the ball, and even though he is very quick, passing the ball up is still much faster.

I also don't think Ford functions well in the half court without ball screens, and not only did it not seem to be a big part of JOB's offense, even when it was, the read on Ford is to go under because he can't shoot over the top.

With JOB it will become simple. If Collison can't function in his offense, something needs to change, either how JOB uses his PG or JOB himself. This team would benefit greatly from having a PG who can create in transition and in the half court.

duke dynamite
10-06-2010, 10:40 AM
Ford ruined Ford.

McKeyFan
10-06-2010, 05:34 PM
No, but I did hear that he's responsible for global warming.
No, the hot air to which you refer is merely coachspeak.

pacer4ever
10-06-2010, 07:45 PM
ford would be good playing in china LOL



Bonzi Wells Is Torching The Chinese Basketball Association
Posted on 29 December 2008 by HG
• Former NBA player Bonzi Wells dropped 52 in his latest game for Shanxi Zhongyu



Former NBA player Bonzi Wells made his Chinese Basketball Association debut one week ago for Shanxi Zhongyu with 48 points, 11 boards, and seven steals. He scored 52 points and had 14 rebounds, including 13 of the team’s 18 points in overtime, in leading his team to victory last night. Bonzi Wells in China = NBA Live.
The Chinese CBA is just like our old CBA but worse. Bonzi explained his hot streak to the media:


http://www.asia-basket.com/China/basketball.asp





“The coach is giving me a lot of space, in the NBA I was never able to play so freely,” Wells, 32, said after Sunday’s game through a Chinese translator.

“Since college until now, it has been a long time since I’ve been able to play this freely.”

Shanxi is currently in 10th place in the CBA at 10-9, having won two and lost two with Wells in the line-up.
http://youbeenblinded.com/bonzi-wells-is-torching-the-chinese-basketball-association/2564



Andre EMMETT from texas tech couldnot make it in the NBA lol
Guaynabo
(196-G/F-82)
Avg: 32 ppg

QuickRelease
10-06-2010, 08:17 PM
That explains his hair changing to look like Storms! Starting with the sideburns of course ....:laugh: I was thinking Magneto put JOB in the same machine he put Rogue in.

Trader Joe
10-07-2010, 09:27 AM
Injuries are what truly ruined TJ Ford's career path, if we're really drilling down to the core issue.

Brad8888
10-07-2010, 05:36 PM
I still remember Ford as a rookie when he came to town with the Bucks and changed the tempo of games by using both his court vision to deliver timely passes to his teammates that initiated their offense as well as utilizing his speed on drives to keep our defense honest, so I think that somewhere within him he can still do the job. He simply has not been asked to play that way due to the focus having been shifted to being more on his abilities as a dribble penetrator as his career has progressed, which has continued during his time with the Pacers due to that component being highly prized by the O'B system.

pacer4ever
10-07-2010, 06:35 PM
I still remember Ford as a rookie when he came to town with the Bucks and changed the tempo of games by using both his court vision to deliver timely passes to his teammates that initiated their offense as well as utilizing his speed on drives to keep our defense honest, so I think that somewhere within him he can still do the job. He simply has not been asked to play that way due to the focus having been shifted to being more on his abilities as a dribble penetrator as his career has progressed, which has continued during his time with the Pacers due to that component being highly prized by the O'B system.

as a young player he was good. He wasnt shooting very much he was running the ofnse well and running and gunning

Wage
10-07-2010, 08:40 PM
No. Ford was always the "cost" we had to pay to dump JO and to acquire Hibbert.