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View Full Version : Dunleavy on the rise, Granger on the slide



Diamond Dave
10-05-2010, 02:37 PM
Well I will first and foremost preface this by saying that I fully understand that the 6 minute highlight clips are just....6 minute highlight clips. However, that being said, I can't help but notice a few pleasant and a few scary things.

I must come out and say that right now Mike Dunleavy appears to be 100%. The shot is falling, hes cutting and passing. Mike has always been one of the most consistent guys when it comes to moving without the ball. Too many times last year players could be found camping at certain points of the floor unless they had the ball or....I was about to say setting a screen, but that never happened.

I don't think Mike is in any danger of giving up the starters spot to Rush. If anyone comes after it, it will be George. But when he is on, Mike Dunleavy is very dynamic and hard to stop. A 6'10 shooting guard with length and decent ball handling skills are not very common. Hell he appears to be play better defense. However it could be because he is guarding Granger.

I am very frightened that Danny is going to spend a lot of time settling for the 3 again. He is going to be similar to Reggie in the aspect that he needs something to make him mad to start playing. There were a lot of differences between Reggie and Jordan, but one that may have had as much impact as anything was that Reggie saved his A game for the playoffs. Jordan brought it every...single...night.

I'm not expecting that from Danny. And I'm not seeing much to make be believe otherwise. Really Danny should be muscling Dunleavy around, taking him inside, forcing Mike to foul. Haven't seen that yet. I've seen some 3's and some stutter drives then pull ups. Danny has to get to the line for the Pacers to be successful. Jumpers dont do that.

Darren looks good, real good. We may actually finish some fast breaks this year. It has been unreal the past few seasons listening to how "the Pacers are a team that likes to get out and run." Dear God I've never seen a pro team botch so many fast breaks. 3 on 2, forget about the layup. We would slow it down waiting for a trailing 3. Darren seems to succeed more in those situations than what we are use too.

Finally, I've seen some good out of Roy, but probably not as much as I hoped. But to be honest as much hype that has surrounded his offseason, I'm probably being unrealistic.

Kaufman
10-05-2010, 02:46 PM
If the Olympics didn't make Danny "mad", I don't know what will.

duke dynamite
10-05-2010, 02:50 PM
Interesting analysis. Again, Rush to me is expendable.

graphic-er
10-05-2010, 02:51 PM
I think there are some legit claims going on here, i've not seen him take it to the hold in these video clips, but his shot has been falling pretty well from what we see.

But there have also been many cases when watching these clips that I didn't even realize Danny scored or made the defensive play cause i'm to busy watching Lance or Dunleavy, or Collison.

SMosley21
10-05-2010, 02:51 PM
You said it yourself...


6 minute highlight clips are just....6 minute highlight clips.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-05-2010, 03:02 PM
Well I will first and foremost preface this by saying that I fully understand that the 6 minute highlight clips are just....6 minute highlight clips. However, that being said, I can't help but notice a few pleasant and a few scary things.

I must come out and say that right now Mike Dunleavy appears to be 100%. The shot is falling, hes cutting and passing. Mike has always been one of the most consistent guys when it comes to moving without the ball. Too many times last year players could be found camping at certain points of the floor unless they had the ball or....I was about to say setting a screen, but that never happened.

I don't think Mike is in any danger of giving up the starters spot to Rush. If anyone comes after it, it will be George. But when he is on, Mike Dunleavy is very dynamic and hard to stop. A 6'10 shooting guard with length and decent ball handling skills are not very common. Hell he appears to be play better defense. However it could be because he is guarding Granger.

I am very frightened that Danny is going to spend a lot of time settling for the 3 again. He is going to be similar to Reggie in the aspect that he needs something to make him mad to start playing. There were a lot of differences between Reggie and Jordan, but one that may have had as much impact as anything was that Reggie saved his A game for the playoffs. Jordan brought it every...single...night.

I'm not expecting that from Danny. And I'm not seeing much to make be believe otherwise. Really Danny should be muscling Dunleavy around, taking him inside, forcing Mike to foul. Haven't seen that yet. I've seen some 3's and some stutter drives then pull ups. Danny has to get to the line for the Pacers to be successful. Jumpers dont do that.

Darren looks good, real good. We may actually finish some fast breaks this year. It has been unreal the past few seasons listening to how "the Pacers are a team that likes to get out and run." Dear God I've never seen a pro team botch so many fast breaks. 3 on 2, forget about the layup. We would slow it down waiting for a trailing 3. Darren seems to succeed more in those situations than what we are use too.

Finally, I've seen some good out of Roy, but probably not as much as I hoped. But to be honest as much hype that has surrounded his offseason, I'm probably being unrealistic.

Wow, it's awesome to see elite athletes finally playing together on the court and in a Pacers uniform. The new guys like Paul George, Magnum Rolle, and DC all look SO smooth on the court. There are NOT any slow, uncoordinated, herky-jerky movements that you normally see from Pyscho-T or Foster or McBob or even Dun-Dun. Magnum and George are both explosive and smooth at the same time. They don't seem to waste any motion. They're appear to be very decisive. They contest every shot, play above the rim, and glide around the court.

And Hibbert appears to be somebody else becuz I don't recognize the guy. He's no longer herky-jerky or goofy on the court. He looks smooth and refined now and his array of shots are all money. Thank you Bill Walton and Mrs. Hibbert (for instilling in him to work hard). Even Brandon looked more confident and Lance will create some matchup problems if he gets any PG playing time. This guy loves posting up near the rim and he's money when he gets the ball down low. Dahntay looked a little lost out there with these elite athletes. His one-dimensional game (no offense) will stick out as will Foster's (no offense) game. If you can't play both defense and score the rock, there ain't NO spot for you on the Pacer roster.

Some of our Eastern Conference opponents are gonna be shocked when we take the floor with these new diamonds-in-the-rough. We have the athletes now to matchup with nearly any style of play and opponent (although it remains to be seen HOW we execute). Of course, none of this means anything if JOB starts the same slow-twitched guys because they're so-called NBA veterans. I hope LB mandates that our young guy's development STARTS NOW!!!!

Unclebuck
10-05-2010, 03:06 PM
I don't know, too soon to tell

Pacers4Life
10-05-2010, 03:51 PM
This is one if the most heinous titles ever. Looking for trouble

Trophy
10-05-2010, 03:57 PM
It's great to hear that Mike is back to his regular self. He looked a lot more comfortable in the camp scrimmages than he did all of last season.

As for Danny, it sounds like he's just taking it easy until the season officially starts.

KennerLeaguer
10-05-2010, 03:58 PM
Last year at this time some folks around these parts were raving about how great Solo looked in the scrimmages. How that work out?

Speed
10-05-2010, 04:18 PM
Last year at this time some folks around these parts were raving about how great Solo looked in the scrimmages. How that work out?

I agree, in general with what you're saying, but in talking about Mike, he's had a good season before in live action, so there is more of a precendent.

vnzla81
10-05-2010, 04:38 PM
I agree, in general with what you're saying, but in talking about Mike, he's had a good season before in live action, so there is more of a precendent.

Yeah and that season was 2007

Day-V
10-05-2010, 04:45 PM
From what I've read, Danny's looked pretty good.....?

MLB007
10-05-2010, 04:48 PM
I don't know, too soon to tell

that's what she said.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS6jkr2F9AU&feature=related

naptownmenace
10-05-2010, 05:01 PM
I'll reserve judgment for real live regular season games. I think Danny will be fine but might take a slight step back offensively because of the slight improvement of offensive talent around him this year. His assists and rebounds should hopefully go up and if they do, it will be a season of improvement.

With that said... Mike is looking good out on the floor. He looks like his old 2007-2008 self. If he can stay healthy, he could have a big bounce back year. It is a contract year after all.

odeez
10-05-2010, 05:04 PM
I agree, every time I see DG now he is camping out at the three point line. It's fine if he knocks them down, which he does a lot, but he has to mix it up a bit with some mid-range & attacking the basket. I would love to see him become more of a defensive stopper again.

In the video we all just saw, that is where he was once again, at the three point line, with not much off the ball movement - more activity without the ball would be nice. It didn't alarm me, it just caught my attention and made me wonder if he is going to continue to play that way?

BlueNGold
10-05-2010, 06:29 PM
Granger has the better physical tools, but he basically focuses on the same skills as Dunleavy. Spotting up for threes. Honestly, if healthy, Mike might have him beat in this system. Any other system and Granger is obviously the better player. As it stands, this might be like 2007 when there was not a substantial difference.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-05-2010, 06:48 PM
Granger has the better physical tools, but he basically focuses on the same skills as Dunleavy. Spotting up for threes. Honestly, if healthy, Mike might have him beat in this system. Any other system and Granger is obviously the better player. As it stands, this might be like 2007 when there was not a substantial difference.

Dun-Dun has to move like Reggie to get his shot off. Danny knows that he can take it to the rack but he prefers to shoot the 3pt (probably because it's JOB offense and he likes the 3pt shot). But, I did see Danny take it to the rack when it there but some of these clips only show highlights which happen to be screens being set for Danny and him taking the open and uncontested shot. I'm sure JOB would expect Danny to take this high-percentage open-look anyway.

As far as Defense, Danny and the entire team are trying NOT to hurt each other inadvertently. We'll see some defense against Memphis for those guys fighting for minutes. Hopefully, Danny will have some pride and play a little defense.

Speed
10-05-2010, 06:51 PM
Yeah and that season was 2007

Right, which preceeds 2010, hence precedent. :)

McKeyFan
10-05-2010, 07:09 PM
His one-dimensional game (no offense) will stick out as will Foster's (no offense) game. If you can't play both defense
No offense taken.

OakMoses
10-05-2010, 08:28 PM
I'm guessing that we'll see a team that relies a lot less on Danny for offense this season. It might be that he's trying to focus on his defense and rebounding like Bird told him to do. If we have a lineup of Collison, Dunleavy, Granger, McRoberts, and Hibbert, we're really not going to need Danny to score nearly as much. This is assuming an increase in touches for Roy (as we've been promised) and a PG who can shoot and score (without causing the offense to cease functioning).

In short, I'm not worried about Danny.

OakMoses
10-05-2010, 08:29 PM
Oh, and by the way, Foster has a very definite place on this team. He's the back-up center, and he's way ahead of any other candidate for the role (assuming McBob is the starting PF).

BlueNGold
10-05-2010, 08:44 PM
Oh, and by the way, Foster has a very definite place on this team. He's the back-up center, and he's way ahead of any other candidate for the role (assuming McBob is the starting PF).

Yep. Foster and his one dimensional game, in his prime, was better than most players on this roster. People need to take note that he was starting on great teams for years. Teams that not only made the playoffs, but contended. Yes, he was a role player but that role is critical for winning ball games and he played that role exceptionally....and allowed our soft "PF"...Jermaine O'Neal...to get the accolades.

In any event, I would take a young Jeff Foster over everyone on this team except Granger, Hibbert and Collison...and probably King George if he pans out.

KennerLeaguer
10-05-2010, 08:48 PM
I agree, in general with what you're saying, but in talking about Mike, he's had a good season before in live action, so there is more of a precendent.

I wasn't taking a shot at Dunleavy. My point was that basing too much on what players do during scrimages is probably a mistake. This goes for any players.

BringJackBack
10-05-2010, 09:31 PM
I never understood why neither Danny nor Troy (when he was here) ever took it to the basket as much as they could have.

Now we have Collison, an improved Roy, and Josh who will hopefully get us a lot easier baskets than last year.

I also hope that in George's prime, he doesn't jack up 5 threes a game. I'd prefer like 2-3 with 5-7 mid range shots and 6-8 drives which he'll get his fair share of free throws.

beast23
10-05-2010, 09:32 PM
What I see about this team are the following things.

1. Our defense will finally be initiated at the point with Collison.
2. Our defense will be significantly better at PF (but then, a broomstick would provide better defense at 4 than we witnessed last year).
3. After his experience at the Worlds, Granger will hopefully re-commit himself to defense.
4. With Walton's help, Hibbert should be at the very least a marginally better defender.
5. We have a PG that apparently will help us finish better on fast breaks.
6. With Dunleavy we will have a more aggressive player on the offensive end.
7. Collison might pull more fouls from the opposition and get to the line better than our PGs from a year ago.
8. Our depth will be improved through new players that we have acquired and improved health of players already on the roster.

I would hope that the above means that the defense is improved and that this will translate to holding the opposition to 2-3 points per game less than last year.

Despite losing Murphy, hopefully with the addition of Collison and a healthy Dunleavy, the offense will continue at least at the level of output from a year ago.

On paper, at least to me, our offensive vs. defensive margins will improve. That should translate to more Ws than last season.

BornReady
10-05-2010, 09:41 PM
I didn't really think Danny exclusively camped the 3 pt line...?

Hicks
10-05-2010, 11:55 PM
I thought Michael Grady said Danny was playing the best defense of anybody on the team during training camp?

Peck
10-06-2010, 03:19 AM
[QUOTE=TooBigNdaPaint;1068810]Wow, it's awesome to see elite athletes finally playing together on the court and in a Pacers uniform. The new guys like Paul George, Magnum Rolle, and DC all look SO smooth on the court. There are NOT any slow, uncoordinated, herky-jerky movements that you normally see from Pyscho-T or Foster or McBob or even Dun-Dun. Magnum and George are both explosive and smooth at the same time. They don't seem to waste any motion. They're appear to be very decisive. They contest every shot, play above the rim, and glide around the court.

QUOTE]

You know I don't want to really go there but every time I see this post I am immediately drawn to your grouping of players. Let's just say I'm troubled that you have lumped a certain group of players together here as I don't believe they meet the exact description that you are stating.

Herky-jerky movements for Foster on offense sure, for Tyler yes but under no circumstance would I consider this from Mike he is one of the smoothest moving players in the NBA let alone our team. I also don't believe that Josh fits that catagory either.

Let's just deal with the elephant in the room here and say that I am disturbed that you have lumped all of the white players together as though they all play the same.

T.J. Ford has herky-jerky movements and often times gets in trouble because he makes a move before another move is available.

Dahntey Jones when he is not in full bore bullrush mode is not exactly ever going to be compared to Dr. J for his grace and smooth movements.

Are we saying that Roy Hibbert is now Hakeem?

Day-V
10-06-2010, 04:12 AM
Are we saying that Roy Hibbert is now Hakeem?

A guy can dream.

Will Galen
10-06-2010, 05:24 AM
[QUOTE=TooBigNdaPaint;1068810]Wow, it's awesome to see elite athletes finally playing together on the court and in a Pacers uniform. The new guys like Paul George, Magnum Rolle, and DC all look SO smooth on the court. There are NOT any slow, uncoordinated, herky-jerky movements that you normally see from Pyscho-T or Foster or McBob or even Dun-Dun. Magnum and George are both explosive and smooth at the same time. They don't seem to waste any motion. They're appear to be very decisive. They contest every shot, play above the rim, and glide around the court.

QUOTE]

You know I don't want to really go there but every time I see this post I am immediately drawn to your grouping of players. Let's just say I'm troubled that you have lumped a certain group of players together here as I don't believe they meet the exact description that you are stating.



That is disturbing now that you pointed it out, especially if you read it again. Good catch!

OakMoses
10-06-2010, 08:21 AM
I should point out that Shawne Williams was the smoothest Pacers I've seen for a long time. How'd that work out?