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luis3ep
10-04-2010, 12:06 PM
Positive vibe emanating from camp this year



One week of camp is hardly the time to start drawing conclusions about a team, at least in terms of its prospects for the season, but there has been one particularly strong impression: the vibe is much, much better -- in fact, it's been as positive as I can remember.

I'm not sure if that's due to the good health, the fresh infusion of young, upbeat personalities like Darren Collison and Paul George, or the continued emergence of Roy Hibbert as a leadership force on and off the court – probably a combination of all of the above – but this has been a noticeably more angst-free camp.

With everyone able to practice ever day thus far, Jim O'Brien and his staff have been able to move forward with installation, preparation and evaluation in a relatively seamless manner.

"It's very important to have everybody ready to go and healthy to go full-out," O'Brien said. "It's absolutely an important ingredient because you don't know what you have till you see everybody together. The other thing is they're not only healthy, they're pretty advanced from a conditioning standpoint."

The lone asterisk has been Tyler Hansbrough, who participated in practices but not the five-on-five scrimmages. He should begin scrimmaging this week.

"I'm hoping this will be the last day he won't go (five on five)," O'Brien said Saturday. "He's behind coming in because he didn't have training camp last year and missed most of the season and the more times he misses five-on-five the further behind he gets. There's no sugar-coating it. He'll begin to catch up once he's able to go in very drill that we do."

Of course, now someone will tweak an ankle and you know who'll get the blame for being the jinx.

Rave reviews for rookie class

First-round pick Paul George has quietly had a very strong camp thus far, earning high praise from O'Brien for his hustle at both ends of the court. He has been at or near the top of the team in the all-important "hustle stats" categories – deflections, steals, offensive rebounds et al – since camp opened.

But he hasn't been the only eye-opener. Lance Stephenson, while very much a work in progress on defense, has been very strong offensively. And Magnum Rolle shook off a slow start to become much more active and aggressive at both ends.

"Sometime this year we're going to look back on this and people are going to realize this is the rookie class that started to really turn this thing around," said O'Brien. "All three guys are going to be long-term Pacers and play many, many minutes for us. How soon that happens remains to be seen but we're very pleased with where all three guys are right now."



See how it says ALL 3... that's what i wanted to hear. Alot of people have been speculating whether Stephenson would be traded, or dropped by the pacers, which I think would have been an awful idea. Look, i know Stephenson has had problems..but we have to keep in mind, he's only 20. Actually just turned twenty a month ago, so the recent problem he had was when he was 19. There's still no reason for domestic violence, "alleged" domestic violence..but the Pacers did a great job of getting him the much needed help ASAP. No doubt Bird and others gave him an earful about this, Im sure they told him EVERY little thing he does now that he's an NBA player will be under a massive microscope, so he needs to act like a true professional. I have faith that he will mature, considering all he's wanted to do his whole life is to get to the NBA level, so i'm fairly sure he'll get his act together. There is so much upside to this guys talent/playing ability it's ridiculous.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2010/10/04/rookies101004-1430993/index.html
Conrad Brunner
Pacers.com

In that video, you see interviews with JOB, Magnum, Lance, and Paul..at around the 1:00 part you see Stephenson taking a jumper, THAT stroke. He could possibly be an all-star player. He can just flat out ball. What's your guys opinion on this? Like Lance, don't like him? Want him to stay? Leave?

Hicks
10-04-2010, 12:10 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_101004.html

He notes that Tyler is expected to start playing 5 on 5 (scrimmages) this week. I'm assuming that means starting today or tomorrow, as they didn't practice yesterday.

Good stuff with the rookies.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 12:12 PM
Do Obie's comments about these guys being long term Pacers mean Lance is safe regardless of what happens at his court date?

ThA HoyA
10-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Do Obie's comments about these guys being long term Pacers mean Lance is safe regardless of what happens at his court date?

I always thought he was safe with Clark and hibbert both here to help him be a better person, unless he got jailtime

Hicks
10-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Do Obie's comments about these guys being long term Pacers mean Lance is safe regardless of what happens at his court date?

I noticed that, too. It's kind of strange to hear him say that, but then again this is the coach, not Bird, so maybe he wasn't considering the PR as much as Larry would.

Hicks
10-04-2010, 12:16 PM
I always thought he was safe, unless he got jailtime

That's probably the truth, but if the allegations are proven to be what happened, he probably IS going to jail.

Almost makes me hope they know something we don't.

count55
10-04-2010, 12:17 PM
Do Obie's comments about these guys being long term Pacers mean Lance is safe regardless of what happens at his court date?

O'Brien is probably speaking strictly from a basketball perspective. I'd find it hard to believe that a worst-case scenario outcome for Lance legally wouldn't change that projection.

It's possible that the O'Brien and the Pacers are not expecting jail time, etc, but it's more likely that Obie wasn't even considering it when talking about him.

count55
10-04-2010, 12:20 PM
That's probably the truth, but if the allegations are proven to be what happened, he probably IS going to jail.

Almost makes me hope they know something we don't.

I think the allegations are probably close to the truth, but I think that there is probably very little chance that he will go to jail.

Not that I'm happy about that conclusion, but it's how I think it will play out.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 12:22 PM
Let's say Lance is convicted, but no jail time. Probation, fine, community service, whatever.

Is he still a Pacer?

ThA HoyA
10-04-2010, 12:24 PM
Let's say Lance is convicted, but no jail time. Probation, fine, community service, whatever.

Is he still a Pacer?

Yes after a suspension because they would have a few months head start on "him growing up and changing"

Hicks
10-04-2010, 12:25 PM
Probably.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 12:27 PM
You're gonna keep a guy on the team if he's convicted of banging his girlfriend's head against the bottom stair? That's gonna be a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of the fan base.

A conviction would blow the story up again, any time showing him as a "changed" person will be lost.

I don't know if he will be convicted, but if he is, I think you have to cut him.

ThA HoyA
10-04-2010, 12:34 PM
Just because he gets convicted... Doesn't mean all the reports are true... If the slamming of the GF head is true I really doubt he would in camp, it would too much of a risk to try and overcome that PR wise.

DGPR
10-04-2010, 12:54 PM
I have to agree with Obie and say that this rookie class will change the direction that the franchise is headed, and I think into a good direction.

90'sNBARocked
10-04-2010, 01:09 PM
You're gonna keep a guy on the team if he's convicted of banging his girlfriend's head against the bottom stair? That's gonna be a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of the fan base.

A conviction would blow the story up again, any time showing him as a "changed" person will be lost.

I don't know if he will be convicted, but if he is, I think you have to cut him.

I disagree

If a "family member" has an issue, you don't cast him off, you work with them, see if there repentive and hopefully you have a maturing , appreciated child. If that child has the same issue again , then things are looked at differently

I am not saying this about anyone on the board, but there are a lot of people in this world (that wont admit it) that love to judge and point the finger because it makes them feel less guilty about the mistakes they have made in their own life

I personally dont think the Lance situation was as bad as many are believed to have thought (no need to drag up the reasons why I feel that way)

I really hope that Lance matures, he reconciles with the mother of his children, and goes on to hava successful life both on and off the court

BRushWithDeath
10-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Lance isn't a family member. He's an employee.

90'sNBARocked
10-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Lance isn't a family member. He's an employee.

Yes socrates I realize that

But the Pacers as a "family" are supposed to be the analogy

Hicks
10-04-2010, 01:20 PM
I don't suppose there's a chance this thread can stop being a Lance's Situation Rehash and focus on the positives about all 3 rookies with regards to their games.............? :(

Pacers#1Fan
10-04-2010, 01:25 PM
So basically what he is saying is in seven seasons, after the Heat have hopefully disbanned, we can compete for a champoinship?! I'm stoked!

Only kidding. Well only about the Heat stuff, I really am stoked. Very excited to see the progress this years rookie class along with Tyler, Hibby, and possibly even Rush (if things pan out) make over the next two to three seasons. Most of us are completely aware many NBA anaylsts believe the Pacers had the two biggest steals in this year's draft in George and Lance based off potential. Very anxious to see what the future holds for these guys.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 01:32 PM
I disagree

If a "family member" has an issue, you don't cast him off, you work with them, see if there repentive and hopefully you have a maturing , appreciated child. If that child has the same issue again , then things are looked at differently

I am not saying this about anyone on the board, but there are a lot of people in this world (that wont admit it) that love to judge and point the finger because it makes them feel less guilty about the mistakes they have made in their own life

I personally dont think the Lance situation was as bad as many are believed to have thought (no need to drag up the reasons why I feel that way)

I really hope that Lance matures, he reconciles with the mother of his children, and goes on to hava successful life both on and off the court

What?

Since when did the Pacers become a glorified baby sitting service. Larry Bird isn't a nanny.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 01:33 PM
I don't suppose there's a chance this thread can stop being a Lance's Situation Rehash and focus on the positives about all 3 rookies with regards to their games.............? :(

Yes, sorry.

That quote just stuck out to me, likely though that Obie was just speaking to on court ability.

Putnam
10-04-2010, 01:34 PM
I don't suppose there's a chance this thread can stop being a Lance's Situation Rehash and focus on the positives about all 3 rookies with regards to their games.............? :(



There sure are a lot of positives about all three rookies with regards to their games! Training camp ought to be a time for enthusiasm and these Pacers are showing us reasons to be enthusiastic!




.

Unclebuck
10-04-2010, 01:40 PM
Mike Wells also mentioned much better player chemistry this season and Mike Wells most often sited player chemistry as the biggest reason why the Pacers were worse last season as compared with the prior season.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 01:41 PM
So who was causing all that bad chemistry? Troy is the only guy gone and Earl Watson I guess.

Maybe everyone just got really tired of Troy stealing their rebounds...

ThA HoyA
10-04-2010, 01:45 PM
So who was causing all that bad chemistry? Troy is the only guy gone and Earl Watson I guess.

Maybe everyone just got really tired of Troy stealing their rebounds...

At least mike was! :)

ZepZach
10-04-2010, 01:46 PM
I haven't been this excited about a season in a while, and I'm glad the players are excited too!

Unclebuck
10-04-2010, 01:47 PM
So who was causing all that bad chemistry? Troy is the only guy gone and Earl Watson I guess.

Maybe everyone just got really tired of Troy stealing their rebounds...

Can't just point to the players who are no longer here. These things are not a straight line - as I'm sure there are many factors.

I'll guess the biggest factor is Collison and the fact that for the first time in many years the players realize they have a legitimate starting point guard that has real leadership abilities and no off court or oncourt issues. IMO it has been since 2000 - 11 years when there has been real issues with the starting point guard. That is like having a quarterback controversy every year. (even Tinsley's rookie year he played well, but I would guess several of the players on that team were not in agreement with the rookie getting the starting job - I'm not looking to re-hash something from 9 years ago, but mentioning more as an example than anything else)

BillS
10-04-2010, 01:47 PM
So who was causing all that bad chemistry? Troy is the only guy gone and Earl Watson I guess.

Maybe everyone just got really tired of Troy stealing their rebounds...

Players unable to participate in training camp affects chemistry more than people want to admit. Certainly the chemistry can develop during the season as those guys come back, though frustration with quality of play can block it. The bonding that can take place in camp is clearly not going to take place if lots of guys are missing or are spending their camp time in rehab or other recovery activities.

Also, no one is saying that chemistry during camp last year was BAD, just that this year is very good.

pacer4ever
10-04-2010, 01:47 PM
I have to agree with Obie and say that this rookie class will change the direction that the franchise is headed, and I think into a good direction.

i've been saying that for awhile getting PG24 was the best pick he will be really really good

Unclebuck
10-04-2010, 01:51 PM
Players unable to participate in training camp affects chemistry more than people want to admit. Certainly the chemistry can develop during the season as those guys come back, though frustration with quality of play can block it. The bonding that can take place in camp is clearly not going to take place if lots of guys are missing or are spending their camp time in rehab or other recovery activities.

Also, no one is saying that chemistry during camp last year was BAD, just that this year is very good.

Mike Wells maybe didn't say the player chemistry was bad last season, but he often said it wasn't good.

I agree with you about training camp. I think training camp is one of the most important weeks of the entire season - it sets the tone for what is to follow, I think it is huge. (and by training camp I'm talking about the first 6 or 7 days of practice before the peseason games)

Speed
10-04-2010, 01:53 PM
So who was causing all that bad chemistry? Troy is the only guy gone and Earl Watson I guess.

Maybe everyone just got really tired of Troy stealing their rebounds...

Passing of the torch, maybe. Now, Roy and Danny can really take hold of the team from a leadership standpoint. Sure it was Danny's team last year, but you still had an ad hoc group that were new to the team vets in Watson and then a leftover group from the transitional group.

I think Conrad has it about right, infusion of youngsters who are now playing key roles McRoberts, maybe Hansbrough and the Rooks, addition of Posey and DC, and the maturation of key players who can lead in a positive way Roy and Danny. It's a combination in my estimation.

I wouldn't blame Troy or Earl in anyway. I don't think it's in Troys nature and by the time Earl was inserted, it was basicaly too late. I'd even throw the history of Dun into this equation, just because he went from Captain to injured, to ineffective, but was a vet on the team. Again none of their faults, but easier for Danny to lead now that he's not worried about having the pedigree to do so.

Roy just wasn't there yet, but I think he has all the qualities, it's just hard for a guy who's on a semi steep learning curve to talk about playing the right way when you are learning to do that yourself.

So with Roy, Danny, and DC and a group of vets willing to back them up and a group of youngsters willing to listen, you can make pretty big strides in chemistry without a huge change in the people, but have a huge change in the dynamics.

This can go out the window mostly if you go on a 8 game losing streak, which is possible. I mean you can only keep this direction if it shows some kind of results. I guess my point is, it's easy to be a leader now, you haven't played any games, easy to have chemistry when things are going well. A true test for this group will be in January if they are under .500 and haven't been able to sustain any kind of consistency.

Edit, the foundation is there for this year with guys liking each other. I think that's a pretty big deal.

90'sNBARocked
10-04-2010, 01:58 PM
What?

Since when did the Pacers become a glorified baby sitting service. Larry Bird isn't a nanny.

I guess by answering this I am contributing to keeping this a "Lance" thread

But what do you mean "baby sitting"

Because they give him the benefit of the doubt , or that he is a very young kid who might have, at the worst made a bad mistake?

Lets just say I am glad I wasnt raised in your family

I realize I could have gone down a differnent road if I was not able to make amends for my mistakes, and was given the chance to do so.

Since when is helping someone recovery from a bad situation baby sitting?

I gues I just am not priveledged enough to sit up on my throne and judge others

Putnam
10-04-2010, 02:10 PM
Good comments from Speed, UncleBuck and BillS. An additional thought might be this:

These Pacers can look at each other and seriously believe they are a match for the other team in terms of speed and height and prowess. The past couple of years, they knew the outcome of games was going to depend on game plan and luck. They were shorter and slower than the other guys, night in and night out. The professed focus on speed became a travesty because in a foot race the Pacers were bound to lose most of the time, and did.

But now, look at who we've got bringing the ball up. Now, look at who we've got inside. Now, our wingmen are probably both taller and better shooters than the opposition on most nights. And putting Josh McRoberts in at the other forward (with the potential for Hanbrough, too) means the Pacers now have more energy at the spot that used to be their weakest.

A team that has been very successful for a long time can learn to have confidence in set plays and game management. They can let the game come to them and recognize opportunities that, spread out across48 minutes and 90+ possessions can add up to a margin of victory. But that is reserved for San Antonio, the old Celtics, and a few other teams that develop a habit of winning. The experience of the Pacers the past couple of seasons showed that game plan won't win over prowess very often.

But now the Pacers may feel like they've got the prowess on their side. Certainly not every night, and certainly not at every position. But they are a much more energetic team. I like that, and evidently the players like it, too.

pizza guy
10-04-2010, 02:11 PM
This is a great thing to read heading into the season. Everyone is healthy, but it's the coach saying it -- not the players promising to "return to All-Star form." Everyone is getting along, but it's the media saying it -- not players "glad to have their good friend back on the team." The whole team seems to believe that this will be a good year and they're excited about the new guys -- but no one seems stuck on themselves, their stats, or their egos.

That may be the biggest reason we all feel so darn good about this season. The egos are gone and we've got a bunch of good team players that understand the only personal goal to have is giving their all on every play.

We can discuss who the team leader is (Granger, Collison, or even Hibbert), but it's clear that the players are letting the coach be in control, and they are working to be the best team they can be.

--pizza

MyFavMartin
10-04-2010, 02:13 PM
I think Ford clearing the air with JOB and he being in his last year has probably helped some of the team chemistry. Roy sticking around Indy for the summer and ingratiating himself with PG has also probably helped. A lot of the team is younger and you've got three good veteran presences with Danny, Jeff and Mike.

duke dynamite
10-04-2010, 02:35 PM
Yes after a suspension because they would have a few months head start on "him growing up and changing"
I was told a conviction would get him cut. Regardless of what the punishment was.

We'll have to wait and see.

BornReady
10-04-2010, 02:48 PM
I was told a conviction would get him cut. Regardless of what the punishment was.

We'll have to wait and see.

Just wondering, who told you this?

MagicRat
10-04-2010, 02:54 PM
Since when did the Pacers become a glorified baby sitting service.

02/19/02 ?

NapTonius Monk
10-04-2010, 03:06 PM
I don't suppose there's a chance this thread can stop being a Lance's Situation Rehash and focus on the positives about all 3 rookies with regards to their games.............? :(How can you separate the two when the excitement is a bit stifled by the possibilities surrounding Lance?

90'sNBARocked
10-04-2010, 03:12 PM
How can you separate the two when the excitement is a bit stifled by the possibilities surrounding Lance?

or get upset when people defend him (people in general, not 1 specific person)

Putnam
10-04-2010, 03:22 PM
How can you separate the two when the excitement is a bit stifled by the possibilities surrounding Lance?


People separate one thing from another 100 times a day. That car is nice looking, but gets bad fuel mileage. Your new cell phone was expensive but it has . . . whatever people who buy cell phones want them to have. That entertainer is immodest and materialistic, but she's got pretty eyes.

It is really not that hard to focus on the good, the hopeful, the as-yet untainted parts of the Pacers season. Jeff Foster ate those two hamburgers, man! We're on our way now!


If you really can't see how this is done, then maybe you need to spend some time with Kemo or Trophy or Duke Dynamite.





/

MLB007
10-04-2010, 03:27 PM
That's probably the truth, but if the allegations are proven to be what happened, he probably IS going to jail.

Almost makes me hope they know something we don't.

Wouldn't be so sure about that. There are programs that he can get into to qualify for "non jail time sentances" (name escapes me, diversionary programs to try to control the prison populations).
Unlike most deadbeat wife beaters, this guy has a real job with a very real income.
You can stick him in jail and COST the taxpayers 50k a year, or you can get him in counseling and such, and let him work and pay taxes instead of costing them AND pay for child support.
We don't know what happened and may never know, but at some point it's not about the emotional response and more about the ways of the world. (ie - people do get off even after doing very bad things) and what's best for the woman involved and society in general.
I would guess most people would vote to let the guy work and contribute money (lots of it) versus locking him up and costing all of us to keep him there and momma gets nothing.
Sad but normal these days.
I just hope that he somehow gets it just how freaking lucky he will be.(assuming)

ThA HoyA
10-04-2010, 03:29 PM
I was told a conviction would get him cut. Regardless of what the punishment was.

We'll have to wait and see.

I would think it would depend on what part of the allegations are true and what type of punishment he received

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 03:32 PM
Lets just say I am glad I wasnt raised in your family



The Pacers are a business, my family is not.

They're not a valid comparison just because my family should still love and accept me if I do something stupid (although believe me there is definitely still a line that can be crossed), doesn't mean the Pacers should offer the same thing with Lance.

But I really don't want to ruin this thread, I'll just say that I find the idea that the Pacers have some moral obligation to help Lance turn his life around fairly ridiculous.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 03:33 PM
02/19/02 ?

:laugh:

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 03:34 PM
or get upset when people defend him (people in general, not 1 specific person)

Who is upset you're defending him? Where do you get that from?

I'm just saying the Pacers have ZERO responsibility to help Lance rehabilitate his life if he is convicted. He is not their child, or sibling, or spouse. He is an employee.

Since86
10-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Who is upset you're defending him? Where do you get that from?

I'm just saying the Pacers have ZERO responsibility to help Lance rehabilitate his life if he is convicted. He is not their child, or sibling, or spouse. He is an employee.

To be honest, he's not just an employee, he's an investment.

You're right in saying they don't HAVE to help him, but if they think they can get more out of him than they are going to give up, then they will help him.

And it's not a stretch to think that Lance can come out of this a lot better off, not only as a player but as a person. Look at Mike Vick. If Lance is serious about changing who he is, then he should follow Mr. Vick's blueprint, which can be done by staying on the same team.

Speed
10-04-2010, 03:54 PM
To be honest, he's not just an employee, he's an investment.


Yep, it's about the risk/reward when they drafted him, it's about the risk/reward still now. If they didn't think he could be really, really good, he'd already be gone. It sounds cold, but it's the truth, imho.

90'sNBARocked
10-04-2010, 04:06 PM
The Pacers are a business, my family is not.

They're not a valid comparison just because my family should still love and accept me if I do something stupid (although believe me there is definitely still a line that can be crossed), doesn't mean the Pacers should offer the same thing with Lance.

But I really don't want to ruin this thread, I'll just say that I find the idea that the Pacers have some moral obligation to help Lance turn his life around fairly ridiculous.

I am not saying its a moral obligation, but is it any different than lets say a coporate position where an excutive comes up with a failed drug test and they provide consueling

Its not an obligation, I think its the right thing to do

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 04:12 PM
I suppose that depends on if failed drug test = domestic abuse.

I don't know it's a tough call, but if Lance comes up guilty on all charges, my guess is that he's toast.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 04:14 PM
Also 90's,

It'd be great if everyone had that attitude, and I certainly can't disagree that it's the right thing to do from being a good person stand point or a good franchise, but unfortunately I think the general public won't be so forgiving, which leads into my point that if it comes down to the Pacers looking bad or keeping Lance around, the Pacers will probably cut ties.

Since86
10-04-2010, 04:18 PM
Lance needs to start being vocal about the situaiton. He's either innocent of the claims, and needs to get his story about it out there, or he needs to start being vocal about changing his life.

If things went down like it's being said so far, then he should be out doing work in domestic abuse related areas before it's court ordered. That would really help lessen the damage. While the waters are calm now, when he goes to court the storm waters will rise again. He needs to have a plan in place, he can't just continue acting like nothing has happened.

Unclebuck
10-04-2010, 04:20 PM
I guess I fall right in the middle of the is Lance part of the Pacers family or just a Pacers employee. I think he is both. We aren't talking about a ticket sales agent for the pacers who they can fire and replace within 1 day. The Pacers have guaranteed money wrapped up in Lance, it is more than a strict employer - employee relationship.

90'sNBARocked
10-04-2010, 04:45 PM
I suppose that depends on if failed drug test = domestic abuse.

I don't know it's a tough call, but if Lance comes up guilty on all charges, my guess is that he's toast.

No I dont think the two are equal. I think one is factual , the other is more speculative. I also feel the Pacers have done their due dilligence and by talking with the right people doubt that lance will be given jail time. I mean why , if he was at one time banished from the team, run the risk of being embarrased after the fact if found guilty? Why not just keep him away until court

Pure speculation , I realize, just my thoughts

spazzxb
10-04-2010, 06:02 PM
The Pacers are a business, my family is not.

They're not a valid comparison just because my family should still love and accept me if I do something stupid (although believe me there is definitely still a line that can be crossed), doesn't mean the Pacers should offer the same thing with Lance.

But I really don't want to ruin this thread, I'll just say that I find the idea that the Pacers have some moral obligation to help Lance turn his life around fairly ridiculous.


If it is purely about business then things that don't effect productivity are irrelevant. One would compare the the potential losses associated with bad press to the potential gains from letting him stay along with his value to the organization. At this point the bad press could be considered mostly a sunk cost. Wether we cut him or not it will still be mentioned that the Pacers drafted him. In a typical business this type of thing wouldn't be publicized and the employer would never be involved. For the most part , as of now, this soap opera bs is none of anyones business except the state of New York. This is a Basketball message board go to an appropriate non profits website if you want to do something about domestic violence.

Oh and I really like how the off season has gone for our Pacers. The bad behavior of someone deep on the bench doesn't effect that. It nice to have hopeful people around again.

Sookie
10-04-2010, 06:05 PM
Bad chemistry: I think people have short memories. I remember last season people talking about the great chemistry on the team.

I think the truth is that chemistry happens during the season as much as pre season. I do think the fact that this is a team dominated by younger guys helps. (Let's be honest, it makes the being around each other more "fun") But the true test of chemistry will come at around Jan/Feb.

Rookies: I'm really really really excited about Paul George. I personally think he has the potential to be the best player on the roster (Obviously not this season) But really, he could end up a fantastic player.

Lance- I've given my opinion enough on the subject. But I did hear Wells say that they will more than likely cut him if he's found guilty. I don't know how that'll work with the hearing. (It depends on what he pleads and such) But Lance is going up against a lot. Between witnesses, more than likely pictures of her injuries and medical reports, reports from her family saying this isn't the first time, his previous assault charge, her story (which judges will typically take) Let's just say, if everything that's been reported is accurate, he's going to have a hard time proving he's innocent, even if he is.

I think people need to understand that if Lance is guilty and the reports are true, rehabilitating him does not mean we "give him a second (or third..) chance" and counseling. This isn't a "mistake." BEST case scenario is we are dealing with a good person with some deep troubling issues. And that's hard to rehab from, in the process. Then you add in possible chemistry issues and such, and this could get messy. I'm not sure that's the Pacer's responsibility.

And this is assuming that he doesn't go to jail. Which honestly, if he's guilty..how you can not go to jail for what he allegedly did is beyond me.

Rolle - Honestly, not sure. He didn't really stick out to me in Summer camp, and I hadn't seen him before then. (Of course, I wasn't really watching for him.) I hope he's good. :P Although to be hones, I think we're running out of room for "energy off the bench PF's who MAYBE can play the C position."

King Phoenix
10-04-2010, 06:06 PM
I think Ford clearing the air with JOB and he being in his last year has probably helped some of the team chemistry. Roy sticking around Indy for the summer and ingratiating himself with PG has also probably helped. A lot of the team is younger and you've got three good veteran presences with Danny, Jeff and Mike.

And Posey and Ford (unfortunately)

BillS
10-04-2010, 06:22 PM
Can we perhaps change the thread title to "Bad vibe emanating from any thread mentioning Lance Stephenson"?

judicata
10-04-2010, 06:29 PM
On Lance: if the DA has 1) credible witnesses and 2) medical reports indicating that her injuries are consistent with the fall down the stairs and slamming her head in to the last step, then Lance will go down in flames if this gets to a jury. The DA will get evidence of his prior domestic stuff in front out in court.

Lance will probably not take the stand because it opens the door to certain types of cross-examination and impeachment testimony, and the DA would eat him for lunch on cross. So, his entire defense will likely rest on impeaching the credibility of the witnesses and victim.

That doesn't play very well given the biographies of the folks involved.

I sure as hell don't know what all the evidence the defense can present will look like, but in a case like this there isn't going to be a lot. Eyewitness testimony + medical reports + testimony indicating a history of violence for the prosecution. The defense won't even call the defendant or any witnesses to testify how awesome Lance is.

If that is how it shakes out, I think 12 people agree on a charge of some sort.

Day-V
10-04-2010, 06:53 PM
So..............how 'bout them rookies?

90'sNBARocked
10-04-2010, 07:11 PM
Bad chemistry: I think people have short memories. I remember last season people talking about the great chemistry on the team.

I think the truth is that chemistry happens during the season as much as pre season. I do think the fact that this is a team dominated by younger guys helps. (Let's be honest, it makes the being around each other more "fun") But the true test of chemistry will come at around Jan/Feb.

Rookies: I'm really really really excited about Paul George. I personally think he has the potential to be the best player on the roster (Obviously not this season) But really, he could end up a fantastic player.

Lance- I've given my opinion enough on the subject. But I did hear Wells say that they will more than likely cut him if he's found guilty. I don't know how that'll work with the hearing. (It depends on what he pleads and such) But Lance is going up against a lot. Between witnesses, more than likely pictures of her injuries and medical reports, reports from her family saying this isn't the first time, his previous assault charge, her story (which judges will typically take) Let's just say, if everything that's been reported is accurate, he's going to have a hard time proving he's innocent, even if he is.

I think people need to understand that if Lance is guilty and the reports are true, rehabilitating him does not mean we "give him a second (or third..) chance" and counseling. This isn't a "mistake." BEST case scenario is we are dealing with a good person with some deep troubling issues. And that's hard to rehab from, in the process. Then you add in possible chemistry issues and such, and this could get messy. I'm not sure that's the Pacer's responsibility.

And this is assuming that he doesn't go to jail. Which honestly, if he's guilty..how you can not go to jail for what he allegedly did is beyond me.

Rolle - Honestly, not sure. He didn't really stick out to me in Summer camp, and I hadn't seen him before then. (Of course, I wasn't really watching for him.) I hope he's good. :P Although to be hones, I think we're running out of room for "energy off the bench PF's who MAYBE can play the C position."


I think if your being honest with yourself, you hope like heck he is found guilty

owl
10-04-2010, 07:16 PM
On Lance: if the DA has 1) credible witnesses and 2) medical reports indicating that her injuries are consistent with the fall down the stairs and slamming her head in to the last step, then Lance will go down in flames if this gets to a jury. The DA will get evidence of his prior domestic stuff in front out in court.

Lance will probably not take the stand because it opens the door to certain types of cross-examination and impeachment testimony, and the DA would eat him for lunch on cross. So, his entire defense will likely rest on impeaching the credibility of the witnesses and victim.

That doesn't play very well given the biographies of the folks involved.

I sure as hell don't know what all the evidence the defense can present will look like, but in a case like this there isn't going to be a lot. Eyewitness testimony + medical reports + testimony indicating a history of violence for the prosecution. The defense won't even call the defendant or any witnesses to testify how awesome Lance is.

If that is how it shakes out, I think 12 people agree on a charge of some sort.

I wonder if we will see a plea bargain to a lesser charge.

Anthem
10-04-2010, 07:17 PM
That entertainer is immodest and materialistic, but she's got pretty eyes.
Eyes. Right.

Sookie
10-04-2010, 07:22 PM
....Anyway..to get this back on topic and towards the positive..

One thing I'm interested in with Paul George is his offense. We know he can shoot, and we saw some athleteic moves to the basket, but does anyone know if he has a midrange game? Also, how is his ball handling, I don't quite remember from summer league?

jhondog28
10-04-2010, 07:24 PM
Funny reading the thread title and then reading the last two pages of posts. Positive at the start...negative throughout. I am coming out with a new fragrance its called......."Double Facepalm" and I know most of us are smelling it right now.

McKeyFan
10-04-2010, 07:28 PM
I think it needs to be added that, quite possibly, Lance's legal incident will not be fully heard until after the season.

If that's the case, the Pacers have no real option except to plan to have him on the team, and speak the way JOB is speaking.

Then, sometime next spring or early summer, they make a decision on Lance based on the hearing.

Loads of money can't always get you a not guilty verdict, but it sure can get you some long delays.

Pacers4Life
10-04-2010, 07:29 PM
^^ Bad can of worms... STAY AWAY PLEASE. Nothing matters until his court date Oct. 19th or whatever.

This season feels fresh. They all have recently which has been ok, but the last 2 were more of a "well anything is better than what was" so any and all moves were tried over..positive..ized? Follow the thought and you get my meaning.

This year... hot damn. Soooo many good things. Heres my top 3 of the top of my head.
1) Leadership. Its been...lacking to say the least the past few years. Mike and Jeff are GREAT people to have in a locker room, and thats key. Especially now. But what happened to Danny over in Turkey... The growth a lot of us have already seen in Roy Hibbert. I think they WANT to shoulder the load. They want it to be... "their" team. They want to proudly grind this season out into a playoff birth. Lets do it... OOH RAH.

2) Darren Collison... He was my dreamer over the summer. All of those trade talks... I wanted Darren Collison. It happened. Add him to my last few sentences from #1 too.. DEFINITELY. He's young, he's talented, He's OURS.

3) The Mojo... No one truly knows how this team/season will turn out. We've got what i think is a HUNGRY bunch of individuals who are ready to make this about the TEAM. The rookies are talented and are willing to learn. I've seen Mike school PG in camp with a crafty whiteman move. Lets PG know whatssup... i mean if thats just MDJ...i digress.
I have to wrap this up, jeopardys on!

BornReady
10-04-2010, 07:35 PM
....Anyway..to get this back on topic and towards

One thing I'm interested in with Paul George is his offense. We know he can shoot, and we saw some athleteic moves to the basket, but does anyone know if he has a midrange game? Also, how is his ball handling, I don't quite remember from summer league?

I don't think we've seen too much of any midgame from PG yet.
He appeared to overhandle in summer league, if memory serves me correctly. This often did not end up well, but he does look far better in the training camp vids we've been provided with.

Unclebuck
10-04-2010, 07:50 PM
Bad chemistry: I think people have short memories. I remember last season people talking about the great chemistry on the team.



No, that was two seasons ago

Los Angeles
10-04-2010, 07:56 PM
We've heard the "everyone is finally getting along" fluff piece every year for 6 years running.

BillS
10-04-2010, 08:12 PM
We've heard the "everyone is finally getting along" fluff piece every year for 6 years running.

???

I think you are conflating all the bad seasons. What reason was there last year to think folks weren't getting along the year before? I don't remember anyone saying that for last year, it was considered a given.

Los Angeles
10-04-2010, 08:17 PM
Would you accept "the vast majority of the last 6 seasons" without forcing me to find every article? ;)

Unclebuck
10-04-2010, 08:21 PM
Would you accept "the vast majority of the last 6 seasons" without forcing me to find every article? ;)

There might have been an article during preseason, but if there was it was based upon the prior year. There were many insiders (Mike Wells) who was very open last season about the poor player chemistry

Sookie
10-04-2010, 08:22 PM
There might have been an article during preseason, but if there was it was based upon the prior year. There were many insiders (Mike Wells) who was very open last season about the poor player chemistry

In the middle of the season that was true. But not during preseason. I remember it last season, and that was the first Pacer's season I watched. :P

Anthem
10-04-2010, 08:52 PM
I'm with LA. We've never gotten an article during training camp that says "Wow, chemistry is really bad this year." It's always listed as good, and so people always pile on whoever left in the offseason and say that must be the reason. I specifically remember it for Jack, AJ, Jermaine, and Tinsley.

jhondog28
10-04-2010, 09:06 PM
If good team chemistry leads to wins then I am all for it.

BringJackBack
10-04-2010, 09:13 PM
New pracice video on Pacers.com folks. If you go to Crate then scroll down you'll find them in the practice gym.

I can't get to it for whatever reason, the link takes me to Thursday's video

pwee31
10-04-2010, 10:04 PM
New pracice video on Pacers.com folks. If you go to Crate then scroll down you'll find them in the practice gym.

I can't get to it for whatever reason, the link takes me to Thursday's video

Yeah I see it up on the home page but video isn't loading when I click on it or refresh. Guess I'll keep trying, b/c I heard Bruno got good footage

Pacers4Life
10-04-2010, 10:07 PM
^ Ditto.
From the one sentence about it it sounds damn good... "Monster dunks from Roy Hibbert and Josh McRoberts and a buzzer-beater from A.J. Price are featured in highlights from the Pacers' practice and scrimmage on Monday."

Putnam
10-04-2010, 10:50 PM
I specifically remember it for Jack, AJ, Jermaine, and Tinsley.


Yeah, damn those guys. They were the problem!

jeffg-body
10-04-2010, 11:23 PM
I really like the idea of all of the guys going out and eating together and other things that is not at the bar at 2am. I have been amazed at big Roy's leadership when it comes to the rooks. How many young players would be willing/able to command that responsibility. Add the vets that we have in Dun, Foster, Danny, Posey, D. Jones and even Ford and it will show these young guys we have with talent what it takes to be a professional athlete. I see this season starting with a vet dominated line-up but I imagine by the all star break that our youth will be playing good minutes. Add Tyler, which I view as another draft pick from this year since he didn't play much last year. If half of the things go right that we are counting on, we may be fighting for one of the bottom two playoff spots.

imawhat
10-05-2010, 12:41 AM
There might have been an article during preseason, but if there was it was based upon the prior year. There were many insiders (Mike Wells) who was very open last season about the poor player chemistry

Yep. The chemistry problems were reported very early on. I couldn't find the quote, but I remember Dahntay Jones basically accusing certain players of dogging it on defense. We read reports about certain players being disgruntled with the minutes given to Tyler Hansbrough.

It also seemed that Mel Daniels' firing created quite a stir. There were reports about player dissatisfaction stemming from that.




We've seen this article about six years in a row now, as LA says. It's unfortunate because they finally look/seem different. Everyone seems to be on the same page, Danny and Roy are better leaders, and there is a hierarchy developing on the team.

naptownmenace
10-05-2010, 10:11 AM
Can't just point to the players who are no longer here. These things are not a straight line - as I'm sure there are many factors.

I'll guess the biggest factor is Collison and the fact that for the first time in many years the players realize they have a legitimate starting point guard that has real leadership abilities and no off court or oncourt issues. IMO it has been since 2000 - 11 years when there has been real issues with the starting point guard. That is like having a quarterback controversy every year. (even Tinsley's rookie year he played well, but I would guess several of the players on that team were not in agreement with the rookie getting the starting job - I'm not looking to re-hash something from 9 years ago, but mentioning more as an example than anything else)

I don't doubt that chemistry was a problem but lack of talent and athleticism were equally problems.

BillS
10-05-2010, 10:13 AM
There might have been an article during preseason, but if there was it was based upon the prior year. There were many insiders (Mike Wells) who was very open last season about the poor player chemistry

Could you find the reference for this? I recall it being talked about as not as good as it could have been, but not as poor. Poor would be defined as actual conflict or people who were not getting along. Not as good as it could be would be guys getting along fine but not really gelling together or dealing with each other beyond the professional activities.

I can believe the latter, but on last year's team I can't really find any examples of the former.