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View Full Version : Maverick Carter (LeBron's manager) plays the race card



Shade
09-30-2010, 05:44 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5633199

Like I said when "The Decision" went down, Carter is the NBA equivalent of Don King.

LeBron, this guy is absolutely destroying your reputation.

Deadshot
09-30-2010, 06:03 PM
I think someone on my Facebook said it best when describing the article:

"douche comes in every color"

Kstat
09-30-2010, 06:33 PM
It should be noted that Jalen Rose could not have agreed with him any more.

He also said the vast majority of NBA players also agree with it.

PacerDude
09-30-2010, 06:48 PM
It should be noted that Jalen Rose could not have agreed with him any more.

He also said the vast majority of NBA players also agree with it.Well, what's the common denominator here ???????????????????

Gilbert called James narcissistic and cowardly. And somehow from that, Jesse Jackson comes up with 'runaway slave.'

I guess it's only racist if a black person say it is - right ??

Gilbert was pissed because he saw his franchise drop to the bottom of the league. No, I don't totally agree with what he said, but I understand his emotion. And FWIW, I thought the whole production James & Co. put on with the show was egotistical, arrogant, self-centered, etc ................ you choose your own word.

I don't like James & what he did because - to me - it seemed arrogant and egotistical. Not a thing to do with color. But - since a few black guys are saying it was racist ..................... :rolleyes:

Kstat
09-30-2010, 06:50 PM
I think there's more than "a few." Eventually, when there's enough smoke, you have to start questioning if something is on fire or not.

Maybe it isn't a racial thing, but a large number of people seem to have the perception that it is. It's not going to improve either if you brush every person making the connection off as being racist themselves.

Henry Abbott had an article a week ago about how LeBron's Q rating had not dropped at all in the black community, and there was a very different perception of what he did.

I think there are too many people that find this racially motivated to brush them all off as being racist.

Pacers#1Fan
09-30-2010, 07:02 PM
For the record, this is ridiculous.

Chewy
09-30-2010, 07:16 PM
Did Lebron suddenly become black after "The Decision"?

xBulletproof
09-30-2010, 07:23 PM
Maybe it isn't a racial thing, but a large number of people seem to have the perception that it is. It's not going to improve either if you brush every person making the connection off as being racist themselves.

If there's one thing I've learned over time. The people who regularly make racial connections to everything around them, are generally the racists.

It never even crosses my mind when these things happen.

90'sNBARocked
09-30-2010, 07:24 PM
Well considering I will probably not even make a million in my lifetime

I would love to have a net worth of 300 Million or so

Then you can call me whatever you like, just spell my name right on the checks

That being said I do believe had it been Dirk Norwitzki instead of LeBron, the screams might have been a little softer

Bottom line , like it or not race is always a factor to some degree. What Maverick doesnt realize is the white race is not represented by one person.

So yeah, there were propably some people who hated it more because he was black

BUT , I am sure there is many more whites who just hated the decision, and it had absolutely nothing to do with race (probably the entire PD membership)

Slick Pinkham
09-30-2010, 07:27 PM
People are running with this and interpreting it as if they are saying that anyone disliking Lebron's move is a racist. That is not what they are saying.

He said that race "played a factor in how the two-time reigning NBA MVP's decision to join the Miami Heat was covered in the media"

I don't know if it is true or not, but there were some oddly hypercritical stories that were hard to understand, like blasting him for wearing Nike apparel rather than business suits to the negotiations.

I heard on the radio today that "Q ratings" reflecting positive or negative perceptions, has 10 blacks as the least popular athletes in America. The most favorable? White guys (Manning, Tebow, Steve Nash, Apolo Ono [?], and Michael Jordan, who is of course black but famously will have nothing to do or say on or off the record about any aspect of race or politics.)

I don't see much evidence for media bias, but who knows... there was a lot of piling on, for sure

90'sNBARocked
09-30-2010, 07:28 PM
People are running with this and interpreting it as if they are saying that anyone disliking Lebron's move is a racist. That is not what they are saying.

He said that race "played a factor in how the two-time reigning NBA MVP's decision to join the Miami Heat was covered in the media"

I don't know if it is true or not, but there were some oddly hypercritical stories that were hard to understand, like blasting him for wearing Nike apparel rather than business suits to the negotiations.

I heard on the radio today that "Q ratings" reflecting positive or negative perceptions, has 10 blacks as the least popular athletes in America. The most favorable? White guys (Manning, Tebow, Steve Nash, Apolo Ono [?], and Michael Jordan, who is of course black but famously will have nothing to do or say on or off the record about any aspect of race or politics.)

I don't see much evidence for media bias, but who knows... there was a lot of piling on, for sure

You make some good points my friend, nicely put

bambam
09-30-2010, 07:32 PM
I don't care if it was the dude from the movie powder, you pull what Lebron did...you drop in my book. Its not what you did, its how you did it. Samething as what I was always told...its not what you said, its how you said it.

90'sNBARocked
09-30-2010, 07:43 PM
I don't care if it was the dude from the movie powder, you pull what Lebron did...you drop in my book. Its not what you did, its how you did it. Samething as what I was always told...its not what you said, its how you said it.

LMAO at the "Guy from Powder"

Nice one :)

Kstat
09-30-2010, 07:50 PM
the "most love/hated" athletes list was pretty damming.

Brad8888
09-30-2010, 07:50 PM
Maverick Carter is almost as damaging to the Decider as the exodus of the Decider has been to the Cleveland franchise.

The NBA will probably get involved in the near future to put a different spin on this story due to its potential for further alienating fans from the triumvirate that they hope will lure casual fans to the NBA the way that the dominant Bulls did in the 1990's, in that it is widely assumed that casual fans are more attracted to dominant teams than they are the league in general. That theory may get a significant test in the case of the Heat unless Lebron reigns himself and his handlers in.

For myself, I firmly wish that teams such as Orlando and the Celtics in the East ultimately take the Heat down prior to them even reaching the Finals, or, failing that, I hope that Kobe and Phil prevail.

I never thought I would be in favor of the Lakers at any time, but that would change in the event these two teams meet up for the trophy, and this story has solidified this feeling in me even more than it already was.

Sookie
09-30-2010, 07:54 PM
the "most love/hated" athletes list was pretty damming.

They've done "most popular" surveys recently though, Kobe and Tiger were tied for most popular athlete in the country. (Tiger had held that title for the past like..six years) And almost the entire list was black.

Slick Pinkham
09-30-2010, 08:05 PM
Kobe has been on the disliked list for a long time. He remains more disliked than Ben Rothlissberger, right now, after Ben just boned a drunk college girl in a bathroom.

There were two big soap operas this summer, Lebron and Favre. Lord Favre is the 8th most-liked athlete in America.



this unwritten social law of public persona hits African American athletes harder. And the results of this survey are literally black and white.

White athletes can commit the same social ills as blacks, but have a better chance of being liked or being redeemed. Whereas black athletes can spend years trying to rebuild or rehab an image, especially if there is an alleged crime.

Roethlisberger is still considered more likeable than Bryant, despite the fact that both fought sexual assault allegations and both were cleared. Bryant's case was dismissed six years ago.

LeBron James is selfish for pursing a championship. Brett Favre is selfless for pursuing the same thing.


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/09/19/1705341/black-male-athletes-trailing-on.html#ixzz113ozetui

PacerDude
09-30-2010, 08:19 PM
I think there's more than "a few." Eventually, when there's enough smoke, you have to start questioning if something is on fire or not.

Maybe it isn't a racial thing, but a large number of people seem to have the perception that it is. It's not going to improve either if you brush every person making the connection off as being racist themselves.

Henry Abbott had an article a week ago about how LeBron's Q rating had not dropped at all in the black community, and there was a very different perception of what he did.

I think there are too many people that find this racially motivated to brush them all off as being racist.But again I just have to state that it's all being generated by the blacks. And where are you getting this 'large number of people' ?? Is it just a personal feeling or did you read/hear it somewhere ?? I haven't heard anything about the race thing until I read the link in this thread. And again - where is that coming from ?? All I have heard is that there just aren't many people that thought what he did was 'OK'. And yeah - I heard it from blacks also.

But of course it has to be racist. It couldn't possibly be that the people LeBron has surrounded himself with are stupid.

And as far as the issue stated above about Favre - he's just as arrogant, egotistical and self-centered as James is. I don't read/hear anything about how compelling it was. The stuff he pulled is the same - only different. They're both me-me-me prima donnas. I guess I'm racist against black and white ?? Interesting.

vnzla81
09-30-2010, 08:25 PM
This is stupid he is just looking for an excuse for the mess that "the decision" was

Kstat
09-30-2010, 08:33 PM
But again I just have to state that it's all being generated by the blacks.


...so there's nothing to it because of that? Does a white person (Henry Abbott, who wrote the article, is white) have to say it for it to be a valid point?



But of course it has to be racist. It couldn't possibly be that the people LeBron has surrounded himself with are stupid.



It can't be both?



And as far as the issue stated above about Favre - he's just as arrogant, egotistical and self-centered as James is. I don't read/hear anything about how compelling it was. The stuff he pulled is the same - only different. They're both me-me-me prima donnas. I guess I'm racist against black and white ?? Interesting.

The interesting thing is Favre is still loved by far too many people for this to not be fishy.

Slick Pinkham
09-30-2010, 08:38 PM
And as far as the issue stated above about Favre - he's just as arrogant, egotistical and self-centered as James is. I don't read/hear anything about how compelling it was. The stuff he pulled is the same - only different. They're both me-me-me prima donnas. I guess I'm racist against black and white ?? Interesting.

Nobody in the media blasted Favre for having a huge ego or being a drama queen like they did Lebron, and nobody suggested that people should dislike the Vikings. Maybe that's why America LOVES Favre, accoeding to polls, and your view is not mainstream. Also, Maverick Carter is not saying that you or any fan is a racist, he is saying that media coverage is biased against blacks. I personally have a hard time with anyone who views Big Ben Rapistberger more favorably than (as an example) Chad Ocho Cinco.

vapacersfan
09-30-2010, 08:38 PM
For those of you comparing LeBron to Farve, if LeBron takes his team deep in the playoffs I think he gets the same reaction Farve does. People forgive him very quickly

Do I think race could be a factor? Sure. Then again, I had a black profesor tell me point blank he hated whites. Then again I had a black teacher in 9th grtade (biology) tell me he hated white mailes. These people are in minority (hopefully) and will stay in the minority for a long long time

The reality is racism still exists, but I think it is a stretch to say it has any play in "The Decision". The reality is some people were turned off by it (including blacks) and some people liked it (including whites).

I still think it was a HUGE mistake, but not becuase he left but rather the way he left. But I do not think race was or is a factor at all. At least not in this case

vapacersfan
09-30-2010, 08:40 PM
Nobody in the media blasted Favre for having a huge ego or being a drama queen like they did Lebron, and nobody suggested that people should dislike the Vikings. Maybe that's why America LOVES Favre, accoeding to polls, and your view is not mainstream. Also, Maverick Carter is not saying that you or any fan is a racist, he is saying that media coverage is biased against blacks. I personally have a hard time with anyone who views Big Ben Rapistberger more favorably than (as an example) Chad Ocho Cinco.

Media coverage will always be biased.

I think this case had less to do with race and more to do with people watching the special but then saying they hated it.

As far as compairsons, I am repulsed by both.

Then again, I am repulsed by M. Vick, but I also feel he has done his team and secretly I am rooting for him to do well (except when he plays the Redskins)

Hicks
09-30-2010, 08:42 PM
My question is, if the general consensus is that race plays a part in almost everything, why then bring it up in this specific instance, unless one means to imply race plays an abnormal role here?

Slick Pinkham
09-30-2010, 09:07 PM
why then bring it up in this specific instance

Maybe just because the CNN interviewer asked that specific question, and they chose not to dodge giving an answer. I would guess that they see media bias in other stories as well.

My example was Chad Ocho Cinco, who is vehemently disliked (one of the five most-hated athletes in America), to my knowledge solely for being loud-mouthed and a self-promoter. As far as I know, he has no criminal record whatsoever and no bad behavior other than a big mouth. Yet he is more disliked than Big Ben?

Hicks
09-30-2010, 09:12 PM
Okay, so then why bring it up if you're the interviewer.

Slick Pinkham
09-30-2010, 09:23 PM
Okay, so then why bring it up if you're the interviewer.

Because if they dare to answer, you have your gotcha moment and everyone pays attention to you, CNN gets bigger ratings, and you the interviewer gets a fat bonus.

Day-V
09-30-2010, 09:28 PM
I can't believe people honestly think this is a race issue.

I'm sure Larry Bird would've gone through the same criticism had he left the Celtics in the mid-80's and done so in the way that Lebron did. He probably wouldn't have been able to step foot in Boston without hearing it from someone.

90'sNBARocked
09-30-2010, 09:46 PM
.so there's nothing to it because of that? Does a white person (Henry Abbott, who wrote the article, is white) have to say it for it to be a valid point?


It can't be both?



Kstat, I feel ya and agree 100% with where youre going with this. Not everyone can understand and its not always their fault

90'sNBARocked
09-30-2010, 09:51 PM
Then again I had a black teacher in 9th grtade (biology) tell me he hated white mailes.


Can I ask what school or city this was in?

Im not saying you are lying, but thats a big risk for a student to tell a teacher

Sookie
09-30-2010, 10:23 PM
Okay, so then why bring it up if you're the interviewer.

Because if you don't talk about the issue than there's no way it'll ever "go away."

However
1. This was not a constructive way to address racial matters. (The CNN interviewer)

2. This specific incident was not racist. The media put a positive spin on Lebron's decision (with the exception of opinion writers) until the backlash started. People didn't like what he did, because he acted like a self entitled egomaniacal arrogant prick. Not because he's black. (and because he didn't choose to play for their team)

And btw, Tiger Woods and Kobe Bryant are also America's most popular athletes.

http://articles.mcall.com/2010-07-20/sports/mc-tiger-kobe-20100720_1_online-poll-tiger-woods-nba-championship

spreedom
09-30-2010, 10:29 PM
LeBron and his "team" have been such a trainwreck this summer that I almost expected such a devisive, blatant, desperate, insulting comment like this.

And I don't give a damn what race he is. Doesn't make me hate him any more or any less. Grow the hell up.

vapacersfan
09-30-2010, 10:42 PM
Can I ask what school or city this was in?

Im not saying you are lying, but thats a big risk for a student to tell a teacher

It was at my high school here in Virginia.

A student never said anything. He told our class that one day.

It was well known he did not like males, but one day he outright said something along the lines of "I really like the females more at this school, but I really cant stand the white males at all"

He later resigned, or so I was told.

Trader Joe
09-30-2010, 11:07 PM
Lebron's a self centered *******.

Chad Johnson's a loud mouth.

Brett Favre's an overpaid prima donna.

Ben Roethlisberger is a mediocre QB with a serious god complex who might be a rapist.

I think they're all annoying. I don't think it has a single thing to do with race.

The whole would "The Decision" be received better if the athlete doing it was white is a moot point because it's never happened.

And whoever included Apolo Ohno on a list of white athletes, the dude is pretty clearly of Asian descent. (Yes, he has a white mother.)

The fact that this has become about a race is a joke, but whatever, it seems pretty much anything controversial these days comes down to race.

Also, it's kind of sad that a bunch of "most loved/most hated" or "most liked/most disliked" lists are actually being referenced as reliable pieces of information that are indicative of some sort of racial bias.

Kstat
09-30-2010, 11:11 PM
Yeah, when your favorite athletes are white and your least favorite are all black, that's just a coincidence.Really sad to bring that up.

Basketball Fan
09-30-2010, 11:14 PM
Nobody in the media blasted Favre for having a huge ego or being a drama queen like they did Lebron, and nobody suggested that people should dislike the Vikings. Maybe that's why America LOVES Favre, accoeding to polls, and your view is not mainstream. Also, Maverick Carter is not saying that you or any fan is a racist, he is saying that media coverage is biased against blacks. I personally have a hard time with anyone who views Big Ben Rapistberger more favorably than (as an example) Chad Ocho Cinco.



Yep I agree with this now don't get me wrong I don't think all people are like this I'm sure people hate LeBron cuz he's LeBron whether he's black white or candy apple red. However to say race doesn't play a small factor in this is rather short sighted as long as there are different races involved in anything race is a factor but its not the only one.

As far as Tiger/Kobe please they got a lot of backlash and its still there on some level. But that's an entirely different post I'll save for another day

Trader Joe
09-30-2010, 11:21 PM
Yeah, when your favorite athletes are white and your least favorite are all black, that's just a coincidence.Really sad to bring that up.

My point is the where did this list take place? How was the poll taken? Who was polled?

You guys are acting like every person who was polled in that "most loved/most hated" were all white, when in reality, there were probably white people AND black people polled in that poll.

Correct though, Peyton Manning is loved because he's a whitie. Not because he's one of the best QB's of all time who has never stabbed a franchise in the back, and unlike a ton of other stars who turned their noses up at franchises that were struggling (Ahem, his own brother), he instead turned a perennial cellar dweller into one of the model franchises in the NFL.

But you're right he's probably most loved because he's white.

Trader Joe
09-30-2010, 11:25 PM
BTW where does Mike Vick end up playing in all of this? Here's a guy who was becoming the face of the NFL and franchise (madden covers/media darling once he beat Green Bay in the playoffs in Green Bay).

Committed a crime, went to jail.

Was competing against a white QB, outperformed said white QB, and took said white QB's job, and is now being embraced by one of the harshest fan bases in the country and is slowly turning into a model citizen.

How does a black man, named Tony Dungy become one of the most inspirational and well liked guys in an entire sport?

Sorry, but using race as an excuse on this is a total cop out of your responsibilities as a human being to the Cavaliers, I don't care if you're purple, white, black, or orange.

Race is still an issue, but to use it for an excuse for something like this, cheapens the real struggles some people experience on a daily basis. There are plenty of examples of loved and embraced African Americans in sport, that completely up-end this argument.

Day-V
09-30-2010, 11:31 PM
Yeah, when your favorite athletes are white and your least favorite are all black, that's just a coincidence.Really sad to bring that up.


My favorite athlete is Reggie Miller and my least favorite is Tom Brady. Does that make me some sort of reverse racist?

IUfan4life
09-30-2010, 11:32 PM
I think this just proves that all Pacer fans are racist

Trader Joe
09-30-2010, 11:32 PM
Yeah, when your favorite athletes are white and your least favorite are all black, that's just a coincidence.Really sad to bring that up.


Also, I don't really appreciate you using the collective "your" in a response to my post trying to accuse people of racism.

pacer4ever
09-30-2010, 11:33 PM
My point is the where did this list take place? How was the poll taken? Who was polled?

You guys are acting like every person who was polled in that "most loved/most hated" were all white, when in reality, there were probably white people AND black people polled in that poll.

Correct though, Peyton Manning is loved because he's a whitie. Not because he's one of the best QB's of all time who has never stabbed a franchise in the back, and unlike a ton of other stars who turned their noses up at franchises that were struggling (Ahem, his own brother), he instead turned a perennial cellar dweller into one of the model franchises in the NFL.

But you're right he's probably most loved because he's white.

ya if peyton this offseason held "the decision" and said " well im taking my talents to the Dallas Cowboys" HE WOULD GET GRILLED RACE IS NOT THE ISSUE LIKE THE GUY YOU WERE QUOTEING SAID IT WAS. IT IS THAT LEBRON IS CLASSLESS EGO DRIVEN PIG WHY COULDNT OF HE JUST SIGN LIKE EVERY NORMAL ATHELTHE HE REALLY THINKS HE IS A KING WHICH IS A JOKE. SCREW LEBRON IF HE SHOWED CLASS WHEN HE LEFT I WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE WITH HIM "TAKING HIS TALENTS TO SOUTH BEACH"

Trader Joe
09-30-2010, 11:33 PM
Also, why was Lebron one of the most popular athletes before the decision and one of the least popular after the decision? I wasn't aware he changed color after that day as well.

pacer4ever
09-30-2010, 11:38 PM
Yeah, when your favorite athletes are white and your least favorite are all black, that's just a coincidence.Really sad to bring that up.

LANCE BRIGGS IS MY FAVORITE FOOTBALL PLAYER AND PG24 OR DANNY IS MY FAVORITE BBALL PLAYER U ARE A JOKE IF YOU REALLY BELEAVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. IT IS NOT THE RACE THAT MATTERS IT IS HOW THEY ACT AND HOW THEY PLAY THE GAME. OK I WILL ADMIT MY FAVORITE GOLFER IS WHITE BUBBA WATSON SRY I MUST BE RACIST.

Trader Joe
09-30-2010, 11:40 PM
If you're not gonna write in complete sentences could you at least not pound your caps lock key into submission...

IUfan4life
09-30-2010, 11:40 PM
LANCE BRIGGS IS MY FAVORITE FOOTBALL PLAYER AND PG24 OR DANNY IS MY FAVORITE BBALL PLAYER U ARE A JOKE IF YOU REALLY BELEAVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. IT IS NOT THE RACE THAT MATTERS IT IS HOW THEY ACT AND HOW THEY PLAY THE GAME. OK I WILL ADMIT MY FAVORITE GOLFER IS WHITE BUBBA WATSON SRY I MUST BE RACIST.

why did you bold the black players names in black? racist.

pacer4ever
09-30-2010, 11:42 PM
why did you bold the black players names in black? racist.

no i am proving my point that i dont care weather you are black red purple green or blue i was taught to respect everyone and judge them on how they act and not on the color of there skin tyvm and i meant to bold bubba's to just was so mad that some1 thinks that way i overlooked it b4 i hit send. remember i dont proof read maybe tha will be my new years w/e they call it

Day-V
09-30-2010, 11:42 PM
If you're not gonna write in complete sentences could you at least not pound your caps lock key into submission...

:3deadhors

Ramitt
09-30-2010, 11:42 PM
Also, I don't really appreciate you using the collective "your" in a response to my post trying to accuse people of racism.

Ignore the troll, this one is a sneaky one.

IUfan4life
09-30-2010, 11:46 PM
Black people cheer for other black athletes because they see such an athlete as one of "them" and they bring hope. I wonder what the reaction would be if a white person did this, if there would be any backlash

pacer4ever
09-30-2010, 11:49 PM
Black people cheer for other black athletes because they see such an athlete as one of "them" and they bring hope. I wonder what the reaction would be if a white person did this, if there would be any backlash

i dont get that why dont you just cheer for good people that are good at the sport??

IUfan4life
09-30-2010, 11:53 PM
i dont get that why dont you just cheer for good people that are good at the sport??

that is not my point.

I was just asking the question what would happen if white people collectively looked at white athletes as their "great white hope"

pacer4ever
09-30-2010, 11:56 PM
that is not my point.

I was just asking the question what would happen if white people collectively looked at white athletes as their "great white hope"

idk you mean just support white players?we would be called racist. but i would never do that i just care how they act and how they play the game.

IUfan4life
09-30-2010, 11:59 PM
idk you mean just support white players?we would be called racist. but i would never do that i just care how they act and how they play the game.

you are missing the point completely. I am not advocating supporting only white players.

Just asking a question that we have no way to answer

Basketball Fan
10-01-2010, 12:12 AM
that is not my point.

I was just asking the question what would happen if white people collectively looked at white athletes as their "great white hope"



Isn't that what they kind of do anyways? At least based on my observation they just aren't "vocal".

cdash
10-01-2010, 12:15 AM
Man, Maverick Carter hit this one on the head. I would have been totally fine with The Decision if LeBron was white. Give me a break.

Basketball Fan
10-01-2010, 12:23 AM
My point is the where did this list take place? How was the poll taken? Who was polled?

These polls are subjective so I wouldn't take them at face value but I do find it odd that Chad Ochocinco would be considered more unlikeable than Ben Roethlisberger and Brett Favre. I mean Chad's an attention seeking diva but really I don't dislike him like I do Ben and Brett and yet you don't find it odd they aren't on this list? LeBron is on the list for essentially the same thing Favre did. That probably is what made me curious. I can see why one would think race is a factor but there are more black athletes than white.



You guys are acting like every person who was polled in that "most loved/most hated" were all white, when in reality, there were probably white people AND black people polled in that poll.


I'm sure there were but you know to say that race can't possibly be a factor is short sighted on your part.



Correct though, Peyton Manning is loved because he's a whitie. Not because he's one of the best QB's of all time who has never stabbed a franchise in the back, and unlike a ton of other stars who turned their noses up at franchises that were struggling (Ahem, his own brother), he instead turned a perennial cellar dweller into one of the model franchises in the NFL.

But you're right he's probably most loved because he's white.



Manning has his haters of all races but I do notice that a lot of blacks don't care for him especially those in the media same goes for Favre though so it does go both ways. And many would also say he gets a free pass for his playoff failures because he's white and a face of the league yet McNabb rarely got credit for the 5 NFC Title games he led the Eagles too(although I don't agree with that entirely but I digress). We all know he was never asked what its like to be a black QB ala Doug Williams either. If he's loved its not because he's white but for some white people I'm sure he's preferable.

As for Eli well the Giants weren't that much better and the Chargers had Drew Brees so I don't get why they wanted to draft but he was smart enough to realize the Chargers are clueless on running a team. Both players ended up winning an SB away from them. So really Eli demanding a trade on draft day doesn't really bother me I didn't hate John Elway for it why would I care about anyone else doing it?

Besides these teams dump you as soon as you are no longer useful it doesn't matter who you are. So I never really faulted a player for taking his career into his own hands.



As for Vick all this "redemption" talk is premature. Yes Andy Reid made him a starter which shocked me because that's not an Andy Reid type thing to do. Or maybe he realized he can make his own decisions without offending the overly sensitive McNabb anymore. Who knows. Just because you may not see race as a factor(and for you it probably isn't) doesn't mean it isn't there for others. Its all about perception if you're white you won't see it. If you aren't you are more sensitive to it. All LeBron said is that it was a factor in the backlash not the sole reason which is what people are running with. And on some level (a small one here) I think he's right.

Hicks
10-01-2010, 12:41 AM
These polls are subjective so I wouldn't take them at face value but I do find it odd that Chad Ochocinco would be considered more unlikeable than Ben Roethlisberger and Brett Favre. I mean Chad's an attention seeking diva but really I don't dislike him like I do Ben and Brett and yet you don't find it odd they aren't on this list? LeBron is on the list for essentially the same thing Favre did. That probably is what made me curious. I can see why one would think race is a factor but there are more black athletes than white.

Personal pet peeves may also play a role. Diva personalities and/or attention whores might turn some people off more than others, perhaps by a lot.

Consider there are also people who just watch the games, don't follow what happens to these players otherwise, and might not know the "gory details" that others do about a guy like Ben, for example.

And then some people are just racist. I don't want to make it sound like I'm claiming those people don't exist, I'm just trying to point out an alternative that I think make sense.

Hell, I don't even follow the details closely anymore, especially outside of the NBA. I know Ben's supposed to be this bad person, but I don't recall most of the details. If I don't know, then I feel comfortable in saying there's a lot of people who don't know, and then think about how many of them might just be the kind of person who is simply turned off by the diva/attention-whore silliness they see during or immediately before/after games with a guy like Chad Johnson. All of a sudden, to those not in the know, Chad seems like a "worse person" than Ben, even though they might feel differently if they knew the facts/details on Big Ben.

Just a thought; not claiming to have the answers.

Peck
10-01-2010, 12:51 AM
I don't know about the media but is there not some way that we can make this about everybody in Indiana being racist? Surely if we try hard enough we can bring the brawl into this as well.

Basketball Fan
10-01-2010, 12:51 AM
Personal pet peeves may also play a role. Diva personalities and/or attention whores might turn some people off more than others, perhaps by a lot.

Consider there are also people who just watch the games, don't follow what happens to these players otherwise, and might not know the "gory details" that others do about a guy like Ben, for example.

And then some people are just racist. I don't want to make it sound like I'm claiming those people don't exist, I'm just trying to point out an alternative that I think make sense.

Hell, I don't even follow the details closely anymore, especially outside of the NBA. I know Ben's supposed to be this bad person, but I don't recall most of the details. If I don't know, then I feel comfortable in saying there's a lot of people who don't know, and then think about how many of them might just be the kind of person who is simply turned off by the diva/attention-whore silliness they see during or immediately before/after games with a guy like Chad Johnson. All of a sudden, to those not in the know, Chad seems like a "worse person" than Ben, even though they might feel differently if they knew the facts/details on Big Ben.

Just a thought; not claiming to have the answers.


It was well known to anyone that followed the NFL but the media didn't cover it all that extensively since he was never charged. However the lack of media coverage over this was also considered a "racist" point of contention because had Ben been black how would this have been handled? He was never even charged yet has been accused twice of the same thing. One would think it would've been a bigger story.

Sookie
10-01-2010, 01:10 AM
It was well known to anyone that followed the NFL but the media didn't cover it all that extensively since he was never charged. However the lack of media coverage over this was also considered a "racist" point of contention because had Ben been black how would this have been handled? He was never even charged yet has been accused twice of the same thing. One would think it would've been a bigger story.

Honestly, I didn't know who this Ben person was until the rape cases came out. I think perhaps the reason why it wasn't covered so well because he's not that well known.

Kstat
10-01-2010, 01:18 AM
Also, I don't really appreciate you using the collective "your" in a response to my post trying to accuse people of racism.

I don't approve of your use of the word "collective" in your response trying to accuse me of accusing you of racism.

HOOPFANATIC
10-01-2010, 02:17 AM
Weren't they answering a question? It doesn't matter what race you are it's always an issue, good or bad.

King Tuts Tomb
10-01-2010, 04:16 AM
Been saying this all along. I'm surprised it's taken this long for people to start talking about it.

I also don't understand why everyone is angry about it. The truth hurts I guess.

Chewy
10-01-2010, 07:27 AM
Truth is Lebron was black a year ago and he was generally liked. I'm pretty sure Lebron, Wade and Bosh knew they would all sign in Miami judging from numerous clues and the interviews after they joined forces, but Lebron still had to take an ego stroking trip, making all the teams with cap space come to a grinding halt just to wine and dine him, ending it with an hour long special on national tv to take a dump on Cleveland. That is why his image took a hit. It's not what he did, it's how he did it.

While i'm pretty sure there is a small minority of people hating him because he is black, why would they come out now? This seems like an odd trigger to make racists come out, why aren't Amare, Boozer or even Bosh getting hated on for changing teams, maybe because they went about the whole process like proffesionals?

And Maverick Carter is a joke, this isn't the first time he plays the race card.
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The funny thing now listening to this is that we already know how inept he is at his marketing job just by comparing Lebrons image before and after he fired true marketing professionals and hiring people whose job description is friend.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 08:30 AM
And also what Favre did and what Lebron did are not the same thing...at all.

Favre could be neon green and Lebron could be sky blue and I would say this.

Favre was annoying, self centered, etc., but he never pulled what Lebron did on the decision. In fact, Favre would probably still be a Packer if Green Bay hadn't parted ways with him.

Basketball Fan
10-01-2010, 09:12 AM
Honestly, I didn't know who this Ben person was until the rape cases came out. I think perhaps the reason why it wasn't covered so well because he's not that well known.


Then you probably don't follow the NFL all that much because he's won two Super Bowls and is the QB of the Steelers a storied franchise.


Hard to believe a Super Bowl winning QB accused of sexual assault twice can pass under the radar but apparently its possible.

spreedom
10-01-2010, 10:10 AM
And Maverick Carter is a joke, this isn't the first time he plays the race card.
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The funny thing now listening to this is that we already know how inept he is at his marketing job just by comparing Lebrons image before and after he fired true marketing professionals and hiring people whose job description is friend.


Yeah, Maverick Carter is a complete idiot.

BillS
10-01-2010, 10:24 AM
I don't know about the media but is there not some way that we can make this about everybody in Indiana being racist? Surely if we try hard enough we can bring the brawl into this as well.

And Larry Bird only drafting and signing white players, that has gotten missed in the discussion as well.

90'sNBARocked
10-01-2010, 10:27 AM
It was at my high school here in Virginia.

A student never said anything. He told our class that one day.

It was well known he did not like males, but one day he outright said something along the lines of "I really like the females more at this school, but I really cant stand the white males at all"

He later resigned, or so I was told.

Wow, no there is a doubble standard

Could you imagine if a white teacher told a room full of mostly african american student s that he hated blacks? It would be a big big issue

90'sNBARocked
10-01-2010, 10:47 AM
My favorite athlete is Reggie Miller and my least favorite is Tom Brady. Does that make me some sort of reverse racist?

Yes it does

You secertly hate all your family memebers, and me too :)

trey
10-01-2010, 10:48 AM
Why are black people the only ones allowed to play the race card and not get in trouble? It seems a lot of people are trying to agree with him.

Again, this is pushing it as it is, so let's at least leave political parties / figures out of it. Thanks.

I wish I was black so I could get all the privileges they do, simply due to the color of their skin.

90'sNBARocked
10-01-2010, 10:51 AM
so what about all the black people that love eminem?

or all the white poeple that love Tiger(or loved)

Race is always used to start talkin ***

90'sNBARocked
10-01-2010, 10:53 AM
that is not my point.

I was just asking the question what would happen if white people collectively looked at white athletes as their "great white hope"

They do

Its called boxing

Basketball Fan
10-01-2010, 10:55 AM
Why are black people the only ones allowed to play the race card and not get in trouble? It seems a lot of people are trying to agree with him.

Again, this is pushing it as it is, so let's at least leave political parties / figures out of it. Thanks.

I wish I was black so I could get all the privileges they do, simply due to the color of their skin.



While I agree on some level with what you are saying. If you really think black people or anyone of color gets all these "privileges" you really are deluded.

90'sNBARocked
10-01-2010, 10:57 AM
I wish I was black so I could get all the privileges they do, simply due to the color of their skin.

Dude are you being serious?

I really hope not

That might be one of the more ignorant comment s I have heard

I hate these freakin race discussions

trey
10-01-2010, 11:01 AM
I'm not deluded. Try getting a business loan as a middle aged white male. There's about 2 pages of options for you while there are hundreds for other other races.

90'sNBARocked
10-01-2010, 11:04 AM
I'm not deluded. Try getting a business loan as a middle aged white male. There's about 2 pages of options for you while there are hundreds for other other races.

I cant even go there with you

As a white male you are not discrimated in this country. I can even type all the ammount of response I would have to this

its like when i hear people say the "foreigners are taking over all the jobs"

trey
10-01-2010, 11:07 AM
I guess arguments can be made for each side but why am I being called ignorant and deluded for my opinion?

90'sNBARocked
10-01-2010, 11:12 AM
I guess arguments can be made for each side but why am I being called ignorant and deluded for my opinion?

My man, I am not, and did not call YOU ignorant, I said your statement was ignorant

You do have a right to your opinion but to act like white men are discriminated is a joke

In fact the only discrimination a white man has a legitimate beef with is running back in the NFl

Go Toby Gerhart :)

Hicks
10-01-2010, 11:37 AM
While I agree on some level with what you are saying. If you really think black people or anyone of color gets all these "privileges" you really are deluded.

Well, in the 21st century, it kind of is a special privilege; they can say or do racist things and they only might receive a fraction of the **** storm a white person would get.

Basketball Fan
10-01-2010, 11:51 AM
Well, in the 21st century, it kind of is a special privilege; they can say or do racist things and they only might receive a fraction of the **** storm a white person would get.


But he's saying they get all these privileges other than that what other privileges do they have? Affirmative action? Well most white employers would rather prefer hiring their own I know its not PC but its true. And those who are of a different color have to work twice as hard to be considered equal.

I agree with those of color saying racist things and having it called reverse racism when its really racism period. But to say people of color get more privileges than whites is laughable especially since I doubt a white person will ever experience being pulled over by cops for no reason other than their skin.

Magic P
10-01-2010, 11:57 AM
I'm not deluded. Try getting a business loan as a middle aged white male. There's about 2 pages of options for you while there are hundreds for other other races.

Guess you never heard of white privilege.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 11:58 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnfl2010/101001

An article today from Bill Simmons is sort of timely entitled MIchael Vick's Redemption.

Simmons hated "The Decision" and what it represented Lebron doing. Would that make him a part of the racist media in Carter's eyes? Apparently.

Yet, here is an article clearly showing that Simmons is not racist, and that while race plays a role in our society (he mentions it in the article in the differences that blacks and whites and northerners and southerners might have towards dog fighting), that race is not the defining factor when judging these athletes.

At the risk of *******izing a quote from Batman (is that possible), it's not what color you are, but what you do that defines you.

Day-V
10-01-2010, 11:59 AM
:inbeforethelock2:

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 11:59 AM
As far as having privileges because you are another race, I have to pump the brakes on that one. Like it or not, white people (like myself) do have one major privilege, we're white in a societal structure that has been dominated by whites for nearly 500 years.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 12:02 PM
Well, in the 21st century, it kind of is a special privilege; they can say or do racist things and they only might receive a fraction of the **** storm a white person would get.

Shaky ground Hicks...

Hicks
10-01-2010, 12:08 PM
J.A. Adande has a good article about this, and he introduced me to a term/concept I hadn't heard of before, but actually explains a lot: Tribalism.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp10/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=LeBronRace-101001
espn.com



Trying to avoid writing about the Miami Heat this season will be as difficult as trying to avoid writing about race and the NBA. Here we are, mere days after the teams assembled for the first time, and already the two inescapable subjects have converged into a sports topic so consuming that we managed to go an entire 24-hour cycle without talking about the New York Jets.

Race is so incendiary that the fire quickly engulfed what should have been the real news emanating from Soledad O'Brien's CNN interview, namely the first mea culpa of any kind from LeBron James' camp regarding "The Decision."

"The execution could have been a little better," Maverick Carter said. "And I take some of the blame for that."

When I threw that quote on Twitter all it did was make some people even angrier because Carter couched his confession.

"Mav took 'some' blame? SOME?!" @dgoldstein79 tweeted to me. "He's now up for 2 awards: Worst PR decision of the century AND biggest understatement. Congrats!"

No one bothered to parse the racial comments in the same way. How many people noticed that Maverick used the same "s-word" -- some -- in addressing the racial component of the summer-long backlash against LeBron?

"It definitely played a role in some of the stuff coming out of the media, things that were written for sure," Carter said.

It's important to keep in mind that he and LeBron were merely responding to questions. What O'Brien was doing asking them in the first place is another matter. For all we know she could have been trying to gather some sound bites for her next "Black in America" special. She asked and LeBron answered, and according to the transcript, it went as follows:

O'BRIEN: "Do you think there's a role that race plays in this?"

JAMES: "I think so, at times. It's always, you know, a race factor."

That's all it took. He didn't claim to be a victim of racial persecution, he didn't call for a racial revolution. He simply responded to a question and noted that race is a factor at times.

It's a simple, fundamental truth in our society and, in particular, the NBA. As long as the NBA features predominantly black athletes playing for predominantly white owners who are selling their sport to predominantly white ticket buyers, there will be a race factor. It's an ongoing quandary, usually left unsaid.

Every once in a while the league will try to address it, never more awkwardly than the "Love It Live" ad campaign that utilized dead white singers as a means to sell tickets to see living black basketball players. Apparently the league felt Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra made better spokespeople than Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal. And for the demographic that buys the bulk of season tickets and luxury suites, they very well could have been right.

That brings us to an essential component we must understand when it comes to any discussion of race and the NBA. It's OK for people to root for people who bear the most resemblance to themselves. I had no qualms with white Boston Celtics fans who bypassed racks of Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce jerseys to buy a Brian Scalabrine jersey. If they could identify more with him -- to the extent almost anyone can identify with a 6-foot-9 man with OrangeSicle-colored hair -- that's fine. It's no different than black people who previously didn't care about the difference between a serve and a volley rushing to the TV to cheer for Venus and Serena Williams. We all do it to some degree, be it with athletes or even "Price Is Right" contestants. We tend to support those representing our racial group.

It's not racism. I prefer the term that movie producer (and soon to be Golden State Warriors owner) Peter Guber used repeatedly in his conversation with Charles Barkley in Barkley's 2005 book "Who's Afraid of a Large Black Man?": tribalism.

Tribalism is about familiarity within the known entity. It's not about hatred of others, it's about comfort within your own, with a natural reluctance to expend the energy and time to break across the barriers and understand another group.

Most of what we're quick to label racism isn't really racism. Racism is premeditated, an organized class distinction based on believed superiority and inferiority of different races. That "ism" suffix makes racism a system, just like capitalism or socialism. Racism is used to justify exclusion and persecution based on skin color, things that rarely come into play in today's NBA.

The league routinely gets A grades in Richard Lapchick's racial report cards for diversity in its racial and gender hiring. While that doesn't mean there's complete equality in front offices and coaching sidelines, there's no sense that a powerful invisible barrier bans African-Americans from those jobs like the sonic fence keeping out the smoke monster in "Lost."

The color of LeBron's skin won't prevent him from making $14.5 million to play basketball for the Miami Heat this season. It didn't prevent him from signing endorsement deals with corporate titans Coca-Cola, McDonald's and Microsoft while in his early 20s. It didn't keep people of all races from buying his jersey. Racism has yet to come into play in LeBron's professional life. That doesn't mean he can exist in a racial vacuum.

James managed to navigate the first seven years of his career without running into any racial reefs. You could say there was an African-American style to him, but he never presented any views as coming from a uniquely African-American perspective. All debates about LeBron were on his merits as a basketball player, as an individual, never linked to his ethnicity. There was a flare-up about the similarity of his Vogue magazine cover photo to a "King Kong" poster, but James didn't join the discussion.

Lately there's been a slow-moving racial weather front moving across the radar screen on the LeBron narrative, and ultimately he couldn't escape the story.

It began with Jesse Jackson's claim that Cleveland owner Dan Gilbert's late-night rant about LeBron's departure reflected a "slave master mentality" and that "He sees LeBron as a runaway slave." It was an overly exaggerated reaction to the reaction. If Gilbert really saw LeBron as a slave, he would have tracked him down with bloodhounds and lynched him. That's what slave masters did to escaped slaves. That's why I'll never equate professional or collegiate athletics to slavery.

Orlando Sentinel columnist Shannon Owens linked LeBron's appearance on a list of 10 most disliked athletes to his race. And on ESPN.com, Vincent Thomas said the growing resentment toward LeBron from white people would increasingly lead black people to embrace him, almost reflexively.

Now James has entered the fray himself, simply by acknowledging the presence of something we're never comfortable talking about. It came to his porch and he finally opened the door.

The counterargument is that James never felt compelled to address the league's racial element when everybody was an ally. No one wondered about the racial motivations of reporters and fans when they were writing praise and buying jerseys.

That's because race doesn't affect acceptance, it affects tolerance. When people behave in a manner accepted by society at large they are easy for everyone to embrace. It's who chooses to align with the outcasts that is telling.

LeBron quickly evaporated his reservoir of goodwill with the self-serving "Decision." His own actions were responsible for the ignition and the acceleration of the vitriol. Where race comes in is the continuation. The racial element won't be measured in the condemnation, which came from all corners. It will be measured in the willingness to forgive.

Self-indulgent? I always wondered why that tag didn't stick with white athletes such as Eli Manning, John Elway, Danny Ferry and Kiki Vandeweghe, who refused to play for the teams that drafted them until they could force a trade. Did they avoid permanent ostracizing for their blatant attempt to circumvent the rules that are essential for competitive balance in the league simply because they were white? They certainly don't pop up on the list when we talk about spoiled athletes.

LeBron, like the "draft dodgers," never was accused of a major crime against society. But this week LeBron made a transgression that fewer are willing to forgive. He just forced us to discuss the existence of something none of us feels comfortable doing. He caused us to examine the bias that's always lurking, that has the potential to spring from any of us.

Hicks
10-01-2010, 12:10 PM
But he's saying they get all these privileges other than that what other privileges do they have? Affirmative action? Well most white employers would rather prefer hiring their own I know its not PC but its true. And those who are of a different color have to work twice as hard to be considered equal.

That's a good point, and I actually didn't notice he went plural back there with "privileges".


I agree with those of color saying racist things and having it called reverse racism when its really racism period. But to say people of color get more privileges than whites is laughable especially since I doubt a white person will ever experience being pulled over by cops for no reason other than their skin.

I agree with you.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 12:11 PM
LOL and as I read the Simmons article I come across this gem...awesome.

I'd say it pretty much puts the argument to rest in my eyes.



The difference between Vick and LeBron James -- another superstar who hailed from a rough background and tarnished his image, only unlike Vick, he did so without intentionally hurting anyone or breaking the law -- is that LeBron steadfastly refuses to admit his "Decision" was ruinously handled from start to finish. If he had a do-over, he would ram that butcher's knife into Cleveland's back all over again. How do I know this? Because LeBron never jettisoned the sycophants and opportunists who walked him into July's public relations disaster. And because he still doesn't seem to comprehend why so many found "The Decision" so revolting, as evidenced by LeBron playing the race card this week. You know, because we've been so kind to Brett Favre these past two years.

Hicks
10-01-2010, 12:14 PM
At the risk of *******izing a quote from Batman (is that possible), it's not what color you are, but what you do that defines you.

I think it went, "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I see what you're saying, and actually that's another thing: I think people sometimes confuse racism with someone of race X judging someone of race Y, over race Y's actions, as opposed to how they look.

Basketball Fan
10-01-2010, 12:15 PM
I disagree with Bill about Favre.. Favre is still loved on gameday at least. And while he has more haters than now he's not even considered in the Top 10 list of hated athletes which I find rather surprisingly. One would think he would be. Favre has been doing this for years but... Lebron won't back away from his comments.



Miami Heat's LeBron James won't back down from race comment

LeBron James reaffirmed his comments to CNN that race played a factor in the hatred against him since he spurned the Cavaliers for the Heat.
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Miami Heat player LeBron James listens to music after training camp at Hurlburt Field Wednesday, Sept. 29, 2010, in Hurlburt Field, Fla.
Miami Heat player LeBron James listens to music after training camp at Hurlburt Field Wednesday, Sept. 29, 2010, in Hurlburt Field, Fla.
Wilfredo Lee / AP Photo

* Miami Heat training camp | Thurs., Sept. 30, 2010
* Miami Heat training camp | Wed., Sept. 29, 2010
* Miami Heat training camp | Tue., Sept. 28, 2010
* Miami Heat Media Day | Mon., Sept. 27, 2010
* Photo

By MICHAEL WALLACE
mwallace@MiamiHerald.com

HURLBURT FIELD -- Heat forward LeBron James didn't back away Thursday from comments he made during a CNN interview about race playing a factor in the backlash from his decision to leave the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Speaking after training camp practice, James said too much was being made of his comments to CNN during an interview that was conducted Monday during the Heat's media day at the University of Miami but aired Wednesday night.

James and longtime business manager Maverick Carter said they believed race played a role in some of the apparent dislike for James in the aftermath of his free agent move to the Heat.

James announced the decision on a much criticized hourlong ESPN special July 8. James, an Akron, Ohio, native, spent his first seven NBA seasons in Cleveland after being taken No. 1 overall in the 2003 draft.

``I'm not going to go back on my words,'' James said Thursday before he attempted to dismiss the issue. ``Sometimes [race] does play a part. People are looking too far into it. I said what I had to say [Monday], and I'll continue to move on.''

In the interview with CNN, James and Carter were asked if they thought race played a role in James' popularity taking a significant hit in the months since he joined Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to form arguably the league's most polarizing team.

James was later voted among one of the world's most disliked sports figures based on a poll by the Q Scores Company last month. According to theQ score, James' support drastically dwindled among white fans but only slightly dipped among black followers.

Neither James nor Carter suggested that race was a significant factor but did believe it played a role in how James recently has been perceived.

``I think so at times,'' James said during the CNN interview. ``It's always, you know, a race factor.''

Among some of the most vocal critics of James, however, have been black sports icons, including Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan. Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert, who is white, was fined $100,000 by the NBA in July for offensive statements he made about James's departure.

In the minutes after James made his announcement July 8, news cameras captured images of some fans burning replicas of James' No. 23 Cavaliers jerseys in Cleveland.

James initially took exception to the views of those three Hall of Fame players. But James also said Monday that he respects Jordan, Barkley and Johnson and credited them with paving the way for current players. James said he has not talked to Gilbert since signing with Miami.

Since training camp practices started Tuesday, James repeatedly has declined to talk about the events that played out in summer free agency.

But he quickly addressed the CNN interview and shifted to other topics.

His teammates and coaches came to James' defense but also made it clear that the issue hasn't been a distraction during training camp. Asked about James' comments after practice, coach Erik Spoelstra said he couldn't imagine how James felt about the backlash.

``I don't walk in LeBron's shoes,'' Spoelstra said. ``From our standpoint, we've moved on from the summer.''

Bosh also made a bold decision to leave Toronto after seven seasons and was criticized by some team officials on his way to Miami. But the reaction to Bosh's departure paled in comparison to what James has experienced in recent months.

``Different people have their different opinions,'' Bosh said. ``If [race] is a factor, that's something that is imbedded and people don't really realize it. In America, there was some [racial] tension before.

``But hopefully we've moved past that.''

Wade, who has grown close to James on and off the court, said James has not allowed outside issues to disrupt his internal focus on getting acclimated.

``I really don't get into it,'' Wade said. ``It's really unfortunate, some of the backlash that came from his decision. But as LeBron said, he's happy with his decision. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters. You see the smile on his face, the laughter. It makes you feel good.''


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/01/1850540/miami-heats-lebron-james-wont.html#ixzz117hxKdny

90'sNBARocked
10-01-2010, 12:16 PM
Well, in the 21st century, it kind of is a special privilege; they can say or do racist things and they only might receive a fraction of the **** storm a white person would get.

I understand that, but it goes back 400 years. Not easy to shake off

Magic P
10-01-2010, 12:16 PM
I'm glad James isn't backing down.

BillS
10-01-2010, 12:26 PM
I disagree with Bill about Favre.. Favre is still loved on gameday at least. And while he has more haters than now he's not even considered in the Top 10 list of hated athletes which I find rather surprisingly. One would think he would be. Favre has been doing this for years but... Lebron won't back away from his comments.

LeBron is going to be loved on gameday by Heat fans and those who were LeBron fans rather than NBA fans. Favre is loved by Vikings fans on gameday, but I don't see a lot of "love" for him outside of there.

Favre's activities have a lot of time since they started, LeBron's are still fresh.

Just as with bad stuff happening with players in the community, the large number of players in the NFL dilutes the impact of any one player, even one with as large a profile as Favre.

Finally, while what was being done with the retirements/Green Bay/Vikings situations was public, it wasn't presented as a self-indulgent "all about me" TV program. That, to me at least, is a significant difference.

Unfortunately, we DON'T have a one-to-one comparison between a white athlete and an athlete of color, because - as it should be - there are differences in circumstance, impact, and importance.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 12:37 PM
I'm glad James isn't backing down.

Are you surprised?

The man thinks he's God's gift to the NBA.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 12:39 PM
I think it went, "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I see what you're saying, and actually that's another thing: I think people sometimes confuse racism with someone of race X judging someone of race Y, over race Y's actions, as opposed to how they look.

Right that's why I changed the wording for this situation

Since86
10-01-2010, 12:47 PM
I disagree with Bill about Favre.. Favre is still loved on gameday at least. And while he has more haters than now he's not even considered in the Top 10 list of hated athletes which I find rather surprisingly. One would think he would be. Favre has been doing this for years but... Lebron won't back away from his comments.


Maybe it's because he won 3 Super Bowl rings (apparently only 1)? And maybe Big Ben isn't thought of so poorly because he's won 2?

We have our own people here that routinely tell us they don't care if SJax shot guns in public, or Tinsley got in bar fights, or whatever stupid thing they did as long as they win.

The phrase "Winning cures all ills" comes to mind.....

If LeBron would have won a ring in Cleveland, and then put on "The Decision" you would have saw a much different reaction.

And while LeBron didn't say much during the CNN interview, he said less when asked about it later. He basically replied "I said what I said, and I stand by it." When people start complaining about what you said, and if you think they're taking it out of context, you clarify your position.

Was race a factor? It's dumb to say 100% no. But at the same time, I bet the percentage is so small it's not worth commenting on. People are going to be racist/idiots no matter what happens. Is it really worth alienating thousands and thousands of other people because there are a few idiots that always will be idiots?

The fact that LeBron and Maverick Carter still don't get "it" perfectly illustrates why people dislike them so much now.

Magic P
10-01-2010, 12:49 PM
Are you surprised?

The man thinks he's God's gift to the NBA.

Hope you're not basing that on one tv special?

Day-V
10-01-2010, 12:50 PM
Maybe it's because he won 3 Super Bowl rings?

Actually only won 1 in 1996. Went again in 1997, but lost to Denver.

Hicks
10-01-2010, 12:50 PM
Hope you're not basing that on one tv special?

Name me one other player who orchestrated a TV special like this one?

Day-V
10-01-2010, 12:51 PM
Hope you're not basing that on one tv special?

The man continually refers to himself in the Third Person.


Day-V thinks that makes you look like a blowhard.

bambam
10-01-2010, 12:52 PM
LANCE BRIGGS IS MY FAVORITE FOOTBALL PLAYER AND PG24 OR DANNY IS MY FAVORITE BBALL PLAYER U ARE A JOKE IF YOU REALLY BELEAVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. IT IS NOT THE RACE THAT MATTERS IT IS HOW THEY ACT AND HOW THEY PLAY THE GAME. OK I WILL ADMIT MY FAVORITE GOLFER IS WHITE BUBBA WATSON SRY I MUST BE RACIST.

Nice on bubba, good dude. We played a few rounds back in the day on the AJGA tour. Probably 8-10 rounds. I think we split versus each other.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 12:57 PM
Hope you're not basing that on one tv special?

Maybe you never noticed his baby attitude after the Magic dispatched him in the conference finals...

Or referring to himself in the third person...

Or creating his own nickname and calling himself "King"...

The guy is the definition of a narcissist.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 01:00 PM
And yes, I'm sure there are people who dislike Lebron because of his race or are hard on him because of his race, but guess what...those people probably disliked him before "The Decision".

Lebron changed teams on that special, he didn't change his skin color.

Since86
10-01-2010, 01:03 PM
Actually only won 1 in 1996. Went again in 1997, but lost to Denver.

It's friday, what else can I say?

Magic P
10-01-2010, 01:17 PM
Name me one other player who orchestrated a TV special like this one?

I can't but he did it for the kids.



The man continually refers to himself in the Third Person.


Day-V thinks that makes you look like a blowhard.

Magic P doesn't think so, a narcissist would never team up with D.Wade and C. Bosh.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 01:20 PM
I don't think anyone has ever flat out asked Lebron this, but I don't think he would term it as him teaming up with D. Wade and Bosh.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 01:21 PM
I can't but he did it for the kids.






For da shorteez! +1 to anyone who gets this reference.

Slick Pinkham
10-01-2010, 01:23 PM
Are you surprised?

The man thinks he's God's gift to the NBA.

How so? He pretty much tossed out all individual glory, all stat-chasing, all prohibitive favorite runs at a league MVP, to blend his game with people of comparable talent in order to win a championship, deferring to teammates on the court, unselfishly, like he enjoyed doing even in high school when his teammates were jokes but he racked up assists to get them all involved. He was a free agent. He left a dysfunctional franchise to pursue his dream of winning a championship. He announced his decision in a very unfavorable way, for sure.

How positively awful of him. Rotten to the core, I say. No wonder he is far more disliked than O.J. Simpson.

Trader Joe
10-01-2010, 01:25 PM
I still can't believe that the like/disliked list is being taken seriously...what a shame.

Were people given a specific list of athletes or did they just choose randomly off the top of their heads?

We don't know anything about it.

BillS
10-01-2010, 01:28 PM
How so? He pretty much tossed out all individual glory, all stat-chasing, all prohibitive favorite runs at a league MVP, to blend his game with people of comparable talent in order to win a championship, deferring to teammates on the court, unselfishly, like he enjoyed doing even in high school when his teammates were jokes but he racked up assists to get them all involved. He was a free agent. He left a dysfunctional franchise to pursue a dream of winning a championship. He announced his decision in a very unfavorable way, for sure.

How positively awful of him. Rotten to the core, I say. No wonder he is far more disliked than O.J. Simpson.

What, he did it so he could help Wade and the Heat get the ring that has been eluding them? No, he did it for himself to win a ring, not out of some unselfish devotion to the downtrodden of the NBA.

And, as has been said over and over and over and over and over and over, it isn't what he did, it is how. NBA is a business but there is an emotional side. You can take care of business without giving the public FU to the people who are emotionally invested in you.

The caring about his own future isn't a big deal, really. The complete and utter unawareness of the effect this would have on thousands of people who supported him from the day he hit the NBA and were devoted not just to him but to the team he played for - man's gotta be pretty self-centered not to have a clue.

Day-V
10-01-2010, 01:34 PM
For da shorteez! +1 to anyone who gets this reference.

https://www.tubemogul.com/public/secure_img/1245615878841-32173-ATHF02x10SuperSirLoin.avi-1-9.jpg

croz24
10-01-2010, 01:50 PM
i just cannot believe that this turned into a discussion about racism

BillS
10-01-2010, 01:58 PM
i just cannot believe that this turned into a discussion about racism

With that subject line and topic? What did you think, Carter was announcing that LeBron was investing in IndyCar?

Slick Pinkham
10-01-2010, 02:02 PM
i just cannot believe that this turned into a discussion about racism

I just cannot believe that people are so offended by this very narrow and limited contention: some aspects of how the vast news media portray athletes are influenced by their own racial prejudices.

Columnists actually complained, before The Decision, about how Lebron was poorly /unprofessionally dressed going to his meetings with the teams that were courting him, since he was wearing gold chains and Nike apparel rather a 3-piece suit. On the other hand when Brett Favre walks into the Vikings headquarters to work on his deal, wearing dirty Wrangler jeans, an old baseball cap, and a T-shirt covered with grease looking like he just jumped off the tractor, he is, on the other hand, our buddy.

Slick Pinkham
10-01-2010, 02:13 PM
What, he did it so he could help Wade and the Heat get the ring that has been eluding them?

Nope, and I never said he did. It is his dream. Why is that awful?

Like you say in your signature, and rexnom said, "the best way of running a team is to do your best to get the players you need and always try to win. Good players will become available, opportunities will arise."

The opportunity arose for Pat Riley to do just that, to get the very best players available, and he had an "in" due to the friendship of Wade, Bosh, and James. They all bought in to try and make it happen. Give them all horns and pitchforks for supporting such a dastardly scheme.

BillS
10-01-2010, 02:29 PM
Nope, and I never said he did. It is his dream. Why is that awful?

Like you say in your signature, and rexnom said, "the best way of running a team is to do your best to get the players you need and always try to win. Good players will become available, opportunities will arise."

The opportunity arose for Pat Riley to do just that, to get the very best players available, and he had an "in" due to the friendship of Wade, Bosh, and James. They all bought in to try and make it happen. Give them all horns and pitchforks for supporting such a dastardly scheme.

You keep missing the point so badly you must be facing the wrong direction.

Good for him for following what he did. Good for the Heat for being able to take advantage of it.

I want it changed but its no fault of LeWadeBosh that they could do what they wanted without breaking the rules.

The problem is HOW. This could have happened without LeBron going on national TV to tell fans of a franchise that had everything riding on him to go f**k themselves.

How he decides what to do for himself isn't the issue. Our character isn't measure by how we treat those who can help us achieve our goals. Our character is measured by how we treat those who can't help us at all.

croz24
10-01-2010, 02:49 PM
With that subject line and topic? What did you think, Carter was announcing that LeBron was investing in IndyCar?

"this" as in "The Decision", people's growing resentment towards lebron, etc. not "this" as in this message board... how carter or lebron or anybody can pin lebron's decreasing likeability factor on race is incomprehensible to me. the race card is nothing more than a cop out.

trey
10-01-2010, 02:52 PM
I saw my post got edited, I apologize if I offended anyone or broke the rules with my post. That wasn't my intention.

naptownmenace
10-01-2010, 03:06 PM
I just cannot believe that people are so offended by this very narrow and limited contention: some aspects of how the vast news media portray athletes are influenced by their own racial prejudices.

Columnists actually complained, before The Decision, about how Lebron was poorly /unprofessionally dressed going to his meetings with the teams that were courting him, since he was wearing gold chains and Nike apparel rather a 3-piece suit. On the other hand when Brett Favre walks into the Vikings headquarters to work on his deal, wearing dirty Wrangler jeans, an old baseball cap, and a T-shirt covered with grease looking like he just jumped off the tractor, he is, on the other hand, our buddy.

Great points.

I'd also add that at no time did Carter or Lebron utter the word racist or racism. Saying negative responses and media backlash may have been racially motivated is not the same as saying they were racist or the product of racism. Also, they weren't talking about the fans. They were pointing the finger at the media.

What Lebron and Carter are saying is that there seems to be a double-standard in the media when it comes to people of color. Meaning that if 2 athletes commit a similar crime, the athlete of color will receive more negative press than the white athlete. At the very least the white athlete will receive more "benefit of the doubt". The Kobe and Big Ben scandals are the best example of this.

Since86
10-01-2010, 03:10 PM
LeBron was asked yesterday what he meant by his comments, and he didn't clarify anything, in fact he said he stood by his words.

When you're given the opportunity to correct people, if they're using them incorrectly, and you don't correct them, then you lose the whole "that's not what I meant" excuse.

Doddage
10-01-2010, 03:29 PM
"this" as in "The Decision", people's growing resentment towards lebron, etc. not "this" as in this message board... how carter or lebron or anybody can pin lebron's decreasing likeability factor on race is incomprehensible to me. the race card is nothing more than a cop out.
This. LeBron's likability has gone down because of how much of a douche bag he's become.

Slick Pinkham
10-01-2010, 03:31 PM
Since86, I don't understand what there was for him to clarify or back down from. The contention is as clear as a bell, and naptown captured it precisely: Some parts of the media coverage of his free agency may have been affected by racial attitudes and biases of the reporters.

That is not a shocking allegation any more than it would be for me to say that media coverage of some political events may have been affected by political attitudes and biases of the reporters.

Maybe some of the biases are not even consciously held. Studies have shown that good-looking people are treated with more "kid gloves" in interviews than are plain-looking people. Humans are inherently biased about a great many things, sometimes even without any malicious intent.

Since86
10-01-2010, 03:40 PM
And yet you feel the need to clarify he was talking about the media, when most people are taking issue with it that he's calling non-media people racist.

That's my point.

When he was asked the question, it wasn't just about the media, it was about people's reactions because they took it personally, as they should. I think the media's coverage of the event was delayed. They covered it, and then there was a consumer backlash, and then the media started covering it from that angle.

We outside of the media started the criticism way before anyone in the media started. We on this board had a thread before it was even on the air and we were saying this was going to end badly for him, before the media even had a chance to get their opinion out on it.

We were ahead of the coverage, and if we were criticizing it before the media did, and the media just merely mirrored our reactions, you can't hide behind the excuse that you weren't talking about non-journalists.

Slick Pinkham
10-01-2010, 04:04 PM
And yet you feel the need to clarify he was talking about the media, when most people are taking issue with it that he's calling non-media people racist.

(um... he 's not) Do you want to read the transcript?

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/29/rlst.03.html


That's my point.

When he was asked the question, it wasn't just about the media, it was about people's reactions because they took it personally, as they should.



from the transcript:

O'BRIEN (on camera): Do you think there's a role that race plays in this*?

JAMES: I think so at times. It's always, you know, a race factor.

CARTER: It definitely played a role in some of the stuff coming out of the media, things that were written for sure.

**and what did she mean by "this"?? Look above in the transcript, the words uttered by the interviewer in the sentence directly before that one: "negative headlines which seemed to tarnish LeBron James, the athlete, and the brand."

The question and response was not about people's reactions, it was about media bias. I felt the need to clarify that he was talking about the media because, well, it's the truth. Simple enough?


:banghead:

vapacersfan
10-01-2010, 04:34 PM
Been saying this all along. I'm surprised it's taken this long for people to start talking about it.

I also don't understand why everyone is angry about it. The truth hurts I guess.

Two great articles I read today:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp10/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=LeBronRace-101001




Trying to avoid writing about the Miami Heat (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mia) this season will be as difficult as trying to avoid writing about race and the NBA. Here we are, mere days after the teams assembled for the first time, and already the two inescapable subjects have converged into a sports topic so consuming that we managed to go an entire 24-hour cycle without talking about the New York Jets.

Race is so incendiary that the fire quickly engulfed what should have been the real news emanating from Soledad O'Brien's CNN interview, namely the first mea culpa of any kind from LeBron James' camp regarding "The Decision."

"The execution could have been a little better," Maverick Carter said. "And
I take some of the blame for that."

When I threw that quote on Twitter all it did was make some people even angrier because Carter couched his confession.

"Mav took 'some' blame? SOME?!" @dgoldstein79 tweeted to me. "He's now up for 2 awards: Worst PR decision of the century AND biggest understatement. Congrats!"

No one bothered to parse the racial comments in the same way. How many people noticed that Maverick used the same "s-word" -- some -- in addressing the racial component of the summer-long backlash against
LeBron?

"It definitely played a role in some of the stuff coming out of the media, things that were written for sure," Carter said.

It's important to keep in mind that he and LeBron were merely responding to questions. What O'Brien was doing asking them in the first place is another matter. For all we know she could have been trying to gather some sound bites for her next "Black in America (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/black.in.america/index.b.html)" special. She asked and LeBron answered, and according to the transcript, it went as follows:

O'BRIEN: "Do you think there's a role that race plays in this?"
JAMES: "I think so, at times. It's always, you know, a race factor."

That's all it took. He didn't claim to be a victim of racial persecution, he didn't call for a racial revolution. He simply responded to a question and noted that race is a factor at times.

It's a simple, fundamental truth in our society and, in particular, the NBA. As long as the NBA features predominantly black athletes playing for predominantly white owners who are selling their sport to predominantly white ticket buyers, there will be a race factor. It's an ongoing quandary, usually left unsaid.

Every once in a while the league will try to address it, never more awkwardly than the "Love It Live" ad campaign that utilized dead white singers as a means to sell tickets to see living black basketball players. Apparently the league felt Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra made better spokespeople than Kobe Bryant (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=110) and Shaquille O'Neal (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=614). And for the demographic that buys the bulk of season tickets and luxury suites, they very well could have been right.

That brings us to an essential component we must understand when it comes to any discussion of race and the NBA. It's OK for people to root for people who bear the most resemblance to themselves. I had no qualms with white Boston Celtics fans who bypassed racks of Kevin Garnett (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=261) and Paul Pierce (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662) jerseys to buy a Brian Scalabrine (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1021) jersey. If they could identify more with him -- to the extent almost anyone can identify with a 6-foot-9 man with OrangeSicle-colored hair -- that's fine. It's no different than black people who previously didn't care about the difference between a serve and a volley rushing to the TV to cheer for Venus and Serena Williams. We all do it to some degree, be it with athletes or even "Price Is Right" contestants. We tend to support those representing our racial group.

It's not racism. I prefer the term that movie producer (and soon to be Golden State Warriors owner) Peter Guber used repeatedly in his conversation with Charles Barkley in Barkley's 2005 book "Who's Afraid of a Large Black Man?": tribalism.

Tribalism is about familiarity within the known entity. It's not about hatred of others, it's about comfort within your own, with a natural reluctance to expend the energy and time to break across the barriers and understand another group.

Most of what we're quick to label racism isn't really racism. Racism is premeditated, an organized class distinction based on believed superiority and inferiority of different races. That "ism" suffix makes racism a system, just like capitalism or socialism. Racism is used to justify exclusion and persecution based on skin color, things that rarely come into play in today's NBA.

The league routinely gets A grades in Richard Lapchick's racial report cards (http://www.ncasports.org/Articles/2010_NBA_RGRC.pdf) for diversity in its racial and gender hiring. While that doesn't mean there's complete equality in front offices and coaching sidelines, there's no sense that a powerful invisible barrier bans African-Americans from those jobs like the sonic fence keeping out the smoke monster in "Lost."

The color of LeBron's skin won't prevent him from making $14.5 million to play basketball for the Miami Heat this season. It didn't prevent him from signing endorsement deals with corporate titans Coca-Cola, McDonald's and Microsoft while in his early 20s. It didn't keep people of all races from buying his jersey. Racism has yet to come into play in LeBron's professional life. That doesn't mean he can exist in a racial vacuum.

James managed to navigate the first seven years of his career without running into any racial reefs. You could say there was an African-American style to him, but he never presented any views as coming from a uniquely African-American perspective. All debates about LeBron were on his merits as a basketball player, as an individual, never linked to his ethnicity. There was a flare-up about the similarity of his Vogue magazine (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/080320&sportCat=nba) cover photo to a "King Kong" poster, but James didn't join the discussion.

Lately there's been a slow-moving racial weather front moving across the radar screen on the LeBron narrative, and ultimately he couldn't escape the story.

It began with Jesse Jackson's claim (http://www.rainbowpush.org/news/single/rev._jesse_l._jackson_sr._reacts_to_dan_gilberts_o pen_letter) that Cleveland owner Dan Gilbert's late-night rant about LeBron's departure reflected a "slave master mentality" and that "He sees LeBron as a runaway slave." It was an overly exaggerated reaction to the reaction. If Gilbert really saw LeBron as a slave, he would have tracked him down with bloodhounds and lynched him. That's what slave masters did to escaped slaves. That's why I'll never equate professional or collegiate athletics to slavery.

Orlando Sentinel columnist Shannon Owens linked LeBron's appearance (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/os-shannonowens-liked-disliked-athlet20100917,0,7016010.column) on a list of 10 most disliked athletes to his race. And on ESPN.com, Vincent Thomas said the growing resentment toward LeBron (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5596310) from white people would increasingly lead black people to embrace him, almost reflexively.
Now James has entered the fray himself, simply by acknowledging the presence of something we're never comfortable talking about. It came to his porch and he finally opened the door.

The counterargument is that James never felt compelled to address the league's racial element when everybody was an ally. No one wondered about the racial motivations of reporters and fans when they were writing praise and buying jerseys.

That's because race doesn't affect acceptance, it affects tolerance. When people behave in a manner accepted by society at large they are easy for everyone to embrace. It's who chooses to align with the outcasts that is telling.

LeBron quickly evaporated his reservoir of goodwill with the self-serving "Decision." His own actions were responsible for the ignition and the acceleration of the vitriol. Where race comes in is the continuation. The racial element won't be measured in the condemnation, which came from all corners. It will be measured in the willingness to forgive.

Self-indulgent? I always wondered why that tag didn't stick with white athletes such as Eli Manning, John Elway, Danny Ferry and Kiki Vandeweghe, who refused to play for the teams that drafted them until they could force a trade. Did they avoid permanent ostracizing for their blatant attempt to circumvent the rules that are essential for competitive balance in the league simply because they were white? They certainly don't pop up on the list when we talk about spoiled athletes.

LeBron, like the "draft dodgers," never was accused of a major crime against society. But this week LeBron made a transgression that fewer are willing to forgive. He just forced us to discuss the existence of something none of us feels comfortable doing. He caused us to examine the bias that's always lurking, that has the potential to spring from any of us.

vapacersfan
10-01-2010, 04:36 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/LeBron-James-should-put-away-the-race-card-and-just-apologize-093010




Send this column to LeBron James’ black enablers and sycophants, the men and women circling the racial wagons around King James in hopes of being invited to his South Beach parties, the men and women determined to cripple LeBron the way they once crippled Michael Vick.

LeBron James is not an innovator.

He is not the first athlete to create a business and give jobs to his unqualified friends.

Deion Sanders jumped from Super Bowl contender to Super Bowl contender.
Magic Johnson fired Paul Westhead.

Curt Flood and Oscar Robertson are the fathers of free agency.

Please, let’s stop with all the nonsense that white folks are uncomfortable with LeBron because he’s “taken control of his <NOBR>career (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/LeBron-James-should-put-away-the-race-card-and-just-apologize-093010#)</NOBR>.”

Give me a &*%$ing break. The rationalization is as tired and lame as listening to Limbaugh defenders claim his black call screener is proof Rush is free of bias.
With his self-aggrandizing, narcissistic one-hour TV exit – The Decision – LeBron James ruined his public image, not racism. LeBron inflicted more damage to his image Wednesday night when he told CNN’s Soledad O’Brien that race is a factor in the public backlash against him since The Decision.

In an attempt to justify his asinine statement and gain favor with The King, LeBron’s enablers launched a counter offensive. Rather than deal with the real catalyst for the LeBron backlash – The Decision – we heard talk about how troubled some white folks were by LeBron deciding on his own to take his talents to South Beach.

Are you kidding me? Shaquille O’Neal has played for damn near half the NBA. Shaq bolted Orlando and took his talents to Hollywood without turning off most of America.

LeBron’s exit was disgraceful. It pissed people off. It painted LeBron as an uncaring boob. I’m sure that some bigots used The Decision as an excuse to air racist comments toward LeBron on Twitter or through e-mail.

No doubt, bigots – of any color – don’t need much of an excuse to flash their stupidity. But that doesn’t mean the backlash against LeBron is racist.

The truth is, LeBron James and his kiddie corps of handlers are no threat to the power structure. None.

They’re not Muhammad Ali and Elijah Muhammad telling the government the Viet Cong never called me ******. They’re not John Carlos and Tommie Smith raising black fists on the medal stand. Hell, they’re not Barry <NOBR>Bonds (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/LeBron-James-should-put-away-the-race-card-and-just-apologize-093010#)</NOBR> chasing down Babe Ruth’s greatest-slugger-of-all-time legacy.

LeBron James and his business partner/friend Maverick Carter are two spoiled kids, drunk on fame and privilege and clueless about how to maximize and utilize the power they have.

I’m speculating, but my hunch is many white folks feel sorry for James. They wish he’d open his mind to mature advice. They hope The Decision isn’t an indication James is going to have a Kobe Bryant-, Lindsay Lohan-, Tiger Woods-child-celebrity fall from grace.

LeBron’s enablers are providing him the racial cocoon of denial. They’re giving LeBron an excuse to avoid dealing with his own bad (The) Decision.

Racism exists. It touches the lives of millionaire black athletes, too. I was at ground zero when it was fashionable for the national white media (and the public) to pretend that Barry Bonds invented steroids. I was one of the first journalists to call out the Duke lacrosse prosecutor for succumbing to the black racism that tried to lynch white college kids on the word of a black hooker.

I don’t leave home without my race card.

I hate it when people throw it around to cover their shortcomings.

On Thursday, LeBron told ESPN’s Rachel Nichols that people were looking too deep into his CNN comments, but he stands by what he (and Maverick Carter) said. He’s playing the race-is-a-factor-in-everything card, which is true. But that’s not what he and Carter implied on CNN. They implied that people have a problem with James and his handling of his free-agency situation because his skin is black.

Outside of Cleveland, no one cares or cared that LeBron left. No one could understand why he left in such a classless manner. It’s not like he claimed that Cavs owner Dan Gilbert did him dirty behind the scenes or Cleveland fans mistreated his family the entire time he represented the city.

LeBron pissed on Cleveland because he could and because he apparently doesn’t know any better. Well, people don’t like self-absorbed bullies. So America is taking a dump on LeBron.

Claiming racism might win LeBron the respect of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the folks at ESPN who concocted and participated in The Decision, but all it does in the rest of America is once again illustrate that Team James is in over its head.

LeBron blew a perfect opportunity to say, “Man, I screwed up the way I left
Cleveland, and I regret the animosity it created. It’s a mistake I’ve learned from.”
Maverick Carter half-heartedly acknowledged this when he said “the execution could’ve been better.”

Just admit you were dead wrong and apologize. The people unwilling to accept your apology and move on are the people who have a problem with your skin color.

The rest of us are just tired of seeing athletes do dumb (stuff).

Since86
10-01-2010, 04:38 PM
Obviously not, because you're not grasping my point.

I understand he was asked about the media. The negative reaction to his answer isn't coming from the media though, is it? It's coming from people outside of the media, because the media covered the decision the exact same way people thought of it.

See the difference?

The media announced "The Decision" was going to take place. We on this very board were already saying how stupid and egotistical it was going to be, and how this was going to be a HORRIBLE PR move. People were reacting negatively to it, before he ever stepped foot inside that gym and the cameras were turned on.

The media covered it the way everyone was taking it. You can't seperate the two reactions, because they are one in the same.

If the media's reaction/coverage was racist, then most people were acting racist in their eyes, because each viewpoint was the exact same.


It would be like me calling Roger Ebert stupid because he gave a bad review to a film. You saying you didn't like it either and asking if I thought you were stupid too, and me telling you "no, I called him stupid not you."

The media covered it the EXACT same way people were reacting. The media didn't burn his jersey, his ex-fans did. All they did was actually show it being done.

If the media is racist because of their opinion on how it was handled, then everyone who shares that opinion is racist. Atleast in LeBron's eyes.

This isn't the media leading the charge and people following them.

Kstat
10-01-2010, 04:40 PM
Jason Whitlock has made a career playing the contrarian, but I do think he's right on a lot of points.

I certainly won't defend the awful way Lebron handled his departure, and he deserved what he got. While I also agree with Whitlock that some people were just looking for an excuse, that doesn't mean I think what LeBron did was on the level.

vapacersfan
10-01-2010, 04:46 PM
But he's saying they get all these privileges other than that what other privileges do they have? Affirmative action? Well most white employers would rather prefer hiring their own I know its not PC but its true. And those who are of a different color have to work twice as hard to be considered equal.

I agree with those of color saying racist things and having it called reverse racism when its really racism period. But to say people of color get more privileges than whites is laughable especially since I doubt a white person will ever experience being pulled over by cops for no reason other than their skin.

I am only going to say this and let it be, because I know how TPTBB are weird about things getting political here.

I will say I have a white friend whose father is mexican, but she is white. This girl blends in with white walls so is so white.

Yet she has said numerous times she loves that she can claim she is Mexican. She recently applied for law school, and got into every school she applied to and said point blank "I know I can go anywhere I want, because I am a minority and they need me to look good"

If this right? I do not think so at all. But I am not mad at her for using anything she can to get ahead. Like I have said in other threads, it is a pendulum and I am sure it will balance out at some point (maybe 40 or 50 years)

The ironic thing is she can not speak a lick of spanish, and this is already starting to hurt her.

Per this thread, I actually agree with the article. LeBron was given a crappy question, but what he really should have done was just apologize and move on.

Since86
10-01-2010, 04:46 PM
Jason and I have had our words with each other, but I don't think I can agree with him anymore on this particular subject. I wish I could thank that article a thousand times.

vapacersfan
10-01-2010, 04:48 PM
Jason Whitlock has made a career playing the contrarian, but I do think he's right on a lot of points.

I certainly won't defend the awful way Lebron handled his departure, and he deserved what he got. While I also agree with Whitlock that some people were just looking for an excuse, that doesn't mean I think what LeBron did was on the level.

What do you mean by "on the level"

I actually see both sides, but I agree with both artciles (and I normally do not care for Whitlock)

My favorite quoted out of all of this:

LeBron James and his business partner/friend Maverick Carter are two spoiled kids, drunk on fame and privilege and clueless about how to maximize and utilize the power they have.

Kstat
10-01-2010, 04:58 PM
I don't think they're drunk on power. I just don't think either one is smart enough to deal with such a high-profile career.

This is why you hire PROFESSIONALS to handle your career. Maverick Carter is a college dropout that just happens to be LeBron's homeboy. His personalized quote is:

Don’t be afraid if you see an opportunity to go and give it shot. You can finish school later; it's always there.

Hey, I'm all for capitalizing on the American dream, and a college degree isn't exactly a cure-all, but who would trust this guy with a potential billion-dollar career? Wouldn't you want the person representing you and your brand, to, I don't know...finish his education??? And it's not like this guy left Harvard Law, either. He dropped out of Western Michigan.

Would this guy be representing circus clowns if he wasn't friends with Lebron James? Would anybody young and promising want to work for him? He isn't qualified enough to work in the mail room for most of the big agencies.

Slick Pinkham
10-01-2010, 05:01 PM
Jason and I have had our words with each other, but I don't think I can agree with him anymore on this particular subject. I wish I could thank that article a thousand times.

That Whitlock article, like almost all Whitlock articles, was poorly thought out, poorly written, off the mark in multiple points though occasional he stubled upon a coherent thought, and if I could un-thank the person for posting it, I would do so a thousand times.

I guess we will agree to disagree.

vapacersfan
10-01-2010, 05:08 PM
It is one thing to play devols advocate, but to say that article was poorly thought our was poorly written is comical.

I will leave saying this:

I agree 100% with Kstat. If LeBron had "competent" advisors he would have already apolgoized for the huge mistake that was "The decision", admitted race had nothing to do with it, and moved out and said he looks forward to having a great 2010 years with two great basketball players.

Instead he tried to blame everyone else, and whether he is correct or not, he still was unable to 100% say he screwed up.

I was impressed that Carter was able to [somewhat] say this, but then again how could anyone not see this ending up badly? Like Since said, we, COMMON, every day NBA fans here at Pacers Digest, saw it ending badly. How could his close friend and close advisor not see it? Unless hei s unqualified of was blinded by his loyalty to LeBron. Or both.

Kstat
10-01-2010, 05:13 PM
I'm not even sure he didn't see it coming.

This is the issue with hiring friends that have nowhere else to go. They ultimately become yes-men and tell you what you want to hear, because if they lose their jobs they have nowhere to go on their own.

Slick Pinkham
10-01-2010, 10:34 PM
To say that the media just reflects the thoughts of the people, that's all well and good. But sometimes (quite often, IMO) they reinforce stereotypes to the extent that it becomes and chicken-and-egg situation to know where it all started. Are they reporting what we want to hear? If we want to hear something and something else is true, do they not report it?

An example, separate from the race issue: Where did the perception come from that NBA players are generally thugs and hoodlums, while football players are gladiators and we can tolerate their indiscretions, within limits?

Say that tonight a Pacers player and a Colts player get arrested on separate DUI incidents. Which story do you think will lead the late local news and which one will not even get mentioned? The media has power to reinforce and yes to shape opinion, by whether they cover a story at all, and by how they cover it.

Peck
10-02-2010, 04:13 AM
To say that the media just reflects the thoughts of the people, that's all well and good. But sometimes (quite often, IMO) they reinforce stereotypes to the extent that it becomes and chicken-and-egg situation to know where it all started. Are they reporting what we want to hear? If we want to hear something and something else is true, do they not report it?

An example, separate from the race issue: Where did the perception come from that NBA players are generally thugs and hoodlums, while football players are gladiators and we can tolerate their indiscretions, within limits?

Say that tonight a Pacers player and a Colts player get arrested on separate DUI incidents. Which story do you think will lead the late local news and which one will not even get mentioned? The media has power to reinforce and yes to shape opinion, by whether they cover a story at all, and by how they cover it.

While your point has some merit I do believe it would still be largely a matter of who was pulled over for drunk driving.

If it was Solomon Jones of the Pacers & Reggie Wayne of the Colts I can assure you that Mr. Wayne would grab the bigger headline.

Now if it was Danny Granger vs. some special team player then absolutely Danny Granger.

However if it was Danny Granger vs Payton Manning again I assure you Mr. Manning would get the lions share of the media.

PacerDude
10-02-2010, 07:34 AM
Nobody in the media blasted Favre for having a huge ego or being a drama queen like they did Lebron, and nobody suggested that people should dislike the Vikings.If you expand your boundaries outside of ESPN, there's plenty of Brett-bashing that happened.

But beyond that, I simply just don't see how this can be construed as racist. Stupid, ignorant, selfish, self-promoting, yada-yada .............. sure - an argument can be made on both sides of those words. But I guess I missed the racist comments that were made by someone. :shrug:

grace
10-02-2010, 07:37 AM
As for the Colts players vs. the Pacers players getting into trouble the difference is when a Colts player gets in trouble he tends to get cut or not resigned whereas a Pacers player tends to stay around where he tends to get into even more trouble thus making the casual fan think the Pacers are nothing but a bunch of dummies.

grace
10-02-2010, 07:41 AM
Like Since said, we, COMMON, every day NBA fans here at Pacers Digest, saw it ending badly. How could his close friend and close advisor not see it? Unless hei s unqualified of was blinded by his loyalty to LeBron. Or both.

Sometimes it's hard to see past all the $$$. Either that or they're all so egotistical that they think the public will just blindly swallow anything they do. Of course ESPN buying into all of it doesn't help any.

ESPN is so stupid if Geraldo Rivera wanted to dig into Capone's fault again they'd probably televise it.

Kstat
10-02-2010, 07:50 AM
He probably makes more money every month he represents LeBron James than he would earn in his entire life otherwise.

That's all you need to know about LeBron's "handlers." It's financially irresponsible for them to make him unhappy. Better do anything he wants and earn the millions than tell him the truth and be kicked to the curb without the resume necessary to get hired by anyone else who isn't a close personal friend.

PacerDude
10-02-2010, 10:28 AM
Sometimes it's hard to see past all the $$$. .................. Of course ESPN buying into all of it doesn't help any.On the other side of the coin, from what I've read, the 'show' generated $3 million for Boys/Girls clubs. Not sure how accurate that number is, but even if it's off by 50%, it's still a healthy chunk of change for charity.

So, while I can't get upset over the generosity of the whole thing, I guess I can be bothered over the method used to get it.


LeBron was given a crappy question, but what he really should have done was just apologize and move on.Or he could have just answered NO.

odeez
10-02-2010, 11:39 AM
I read through almost all the posts in this thread and no one mentions that "the decision" raised 3 million bucks for the boys & girl club. Maybe it has been said here before, but I didn't see it anywhere in this thread( I might have over looked it). I think that also has to be mentioned.

I do think race is a factor here, not a large one. Just for the fact we are talking about it shows that it's a factor. I don't think it was a over riding issue here, but IMO it is part of it. In my opinion it plays a role in society and always will. The media (CNN in this case) is going to ask the question because it is a hot button issue and will get people talking.

It is good to talk about these issues and we aren't all going to agree about it. There are so many factors for all of us... How we were raised, our environment, etc...

In the end I still like Lebron as a basketball player, I like watching him
play and that is about it. I think that they could of handled "the decision" better. But that was there decision to do it that way, plus they raised a lot of money for kids, which gets lost in all this. I think events like what Lebron did are just part of modern media.

I just can't wait till we're talking about basketball again

tikitomoka
10-02-2010, 03:41 PM
lebron could be any race and i would still think what he did to cleveland was a douchey move. this comes down to him thinking he's above everyone, not him being a "runaway slave" from the ever so terrible Dan Gilbert who payed lebron buckets (okay, titanic sized boats) of money to leave his team in disarray without letting him know until he let the rest of america know in one of the most egotistical shows i've ever seen.

speakout4
10-02-2010, 05:03 PM
I read through almost all the posts in this thread and no one mentions that "the decision" raised 3 million bucks for the boys & girl club. Maybe it has been said here before, but I didn't see it anywhere in this thread( I might have over looked it). I think that also has to be mentioned.

I do think race is a factor here, not a large one. Just for the fact we are talking about it shows that it's a factor. I don't think it was a over riding issue here, but IMO it is part of it. In my opinion it plays a role in society and always will. The media (CNN in this case) is going to ask the question because it is a hot button issue and will get people talking.

It is good to talk about these issues and we aren't all going to agree about it. There are so many factors for all of us... How we were raised, our environment, etc...

In the end I still like Lebron as a basketball player, I like watching him
play and that is about it. I think that they could of handled "the decision" better. But that was there decision to do it that way, plus they raised a lot of money for kids, which gets lost in all this. I think events like what Lebron did are just part of modern media.

I just can't wait till we're talking about basketball again
There are numerous ways that leBron could raise that kind of money without antagonizing everyone. For instance, he could have payed the 3M out of his own pocket.
This racism stuff is so out of line that all it does is desensitize people when real issues of racism come up. I am afraid that real incidents of racism will be met with "again playing the race card".

xBulletproof
10-02-2010, 05:54 PM
There are numerous ways that leBron could raise that kind of money without antagonizing everyone. For instance, he could have payed the 3M out of his own pocket.

He also could have raised nothing.

That's about the most ungrateful and ignorant thing to say in the face of a huge donation to a good cause. In the grand scheme of things what the hell matters more? The donation, or someone's hurt feelings over a sport? Hell why stop there, why not demand he donates his career earnings? Silly.

Good God get your priorities straight.

speakout4
10-02-2010, 06:06 PM
He also could have raised nothing.

That's about the most ungrateful and ignorant thing to say in the face of a huge donation to a good cause. In the grand scheme of things what the hell matters more? The donation, or someone's hurt feelings over a sport? Hell why stop there, why not demand he donates his career earnings? Silly.

Good God get your priorities straight.
Huge donation to a good cause? Not out of his own pocket was it? He couldn't raise this money any other way? He had to go and **** lots of people off so he could generate this money and YOU really believe he did this for charity? The charity bit was a sham.

xBulletproof
10-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Huge donation to a good cause? Not out of his own pocket was it? He couldn't raise this money any other way? He had to go and **** lots of people off so he could generate this money and YOU really believe he did this for charity? The charity bit was a sham.

Who gives a damn if it was out of his own pocket? That absolutely has to be the rudest, most ungrateful thing I've ever read. Ask the people who that money helps if they give a damn how it was raised.

I can understand being annoyed at the event itself, but the charity bit was absolutely nothing but a good thing. Saying it wasn't "good enough" because he didn't donate it out of his own pocket is just ..... disgusting. I can't even stress that enough.

WTF is wrong with you?

King Tuts Tomb
10-02-2010, 07:23 PM
I am afraid that real incidents of racism will be met with "again playing the race card".

They already are. Exhibit A, this thread.

PacerDude
10-02-2010, 08:33 PM
I read through almost all the posts in this thread and no one mentions that "the decision" raised 3 million bucks for the boys & girl club. ............................I do think race is a factor here, not a large one. You just might want to check the post prior to yours. :D

As for your 2nd statement ............. how is it a race thing ?? If someone could come up with a reasonable, logical explanation (and back it up with facts - not opinion) as to how the crap James got for being so arrogant, etc......... WAS a race thing - I'd certainly like to know about it.

All I can see is that it was a bad move to do it the way he did. He got tore up a bit by various media outlets. His image took a hit. I guess the only way for him to recover is to claim it's a race thing ?? He's not THAT stupid - is he ??

Wait - I think I know the answer to that one ...................... but I digress.

pacer4ever
10-03-2010, 07:45 PM
to me the way Eli left san diego is almost as bad

odeez
10-04-2010, 10:28 AM
There are numerous ways that leBron could raise that kind of money without antagonizing everyone. For instance, he could have payed the 3M out of his own pocket.
This racism stuff is so out of line that all it does is desensitize people when real issues of racism come up. I am afraid that real incidents of racism will be met with "again playing the race card".

I agree with you, he could have raised that money many other ways... And I believe he has in the past. I don't believe I ever said anything about racism in my post. I was just saying IMO that race is a factor. We all will never b able to agree completly on this. And once again I should have never posted in a thread like this. People freak out when when you mention race and it is seen and felt in so many different ways by everyone.

odeez
10-04-2010, 10:41 AM
You just might want to check the post prior to yours. :D

As for your 2nd statement ............. how is it a race thing ?? If someone could come up with a reasonable, logical explanation (and back it up with facts - not opinion) as to how the crap James got for being so arrogant, etc......... WAS a race thing - I'd certainly like to know about it.

All I can see is that it was a bad move to do it the way he did. He got tore up a bit by various media outlets. His image took a hit. I guess the only way for him to recover is to claim it's a race thing ?? He's not THAT stupid - is he ??

Wait - I think I know the answer to that one ...................... but I digress.

I see it was posted... I stand corrected... It is extremly hard to view everything on this little iPhone screen...

Now to your post... I don't know what you mean by "race thing"? I said race is a factor in the coverage. I in no way think racism is a factor. Race being a factor and racism are two different things, IMO.

I have repeated many times, that I think the way James went about the whole "decision" thing was not the right way to handle it. But I didn't take offense to like may have. In my view he is still young... His whole crew is fairly young and they are going to make mistakes.

His image did take a big hit, but once they start winning. It will be forgotten except for those who already hate him and call him arrogant. IMO most pro atheletes are pretty arrogant in my opinion.

In closing again I should not have posted in a thread that has race attached to it. I'll never change the haters and they won't change me. So why bother... It's all just opinion, IMO.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 11:16 AM
They already are. Exhibit A, this thread.

I'm sorry? What do you mean by this?

Peck
10-04-2010, 11:29 AM
In an effort to stay open minded about the entire issue I will ask this in all honesty.

Can someone provide an example where LeBron's decision was treated with racial overtones/undertones or bias? Something specific, not a generic blanket statement of bias.

I mean an actual article written, an interview performed, etc.

There may have been racial bias, I don't know. I would just like to see it so I can be better informed.

Slick Pinkham
10-04-2010, 12:43 PM
Here's one example of a magazine cover that kind of makes you cringe, when you have a photoshopped cover that reminds people of a King Kong pose and brings those stereotypes to the front, black man wanting white woman, it's hard not to see the shock value they were after there.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/16121/original.jpg

The one I distinctly remember was before "The Decision" criticizing Lebron for not dressing appropriately for his meetings with the teams who were after him, specifically citing his gold chains and Nike sweatsuits, in contrast with the 3-piece suits of Donnie Walsh et. al.

Dan Gilbert's "open letter" was pretty extreme in his criticism, and while plenty of people wrote "I can't believe he wrote that!" there was more support than criticism, until Stern announced a stiff fine a few days later.

Just the level of coverage was amazing... day after day, let's show the same video of people in Cleveland burning a jersey.

I didn't watch much of it because I would think... who cares??? and change the channel. Lebron made his mind up, just move on. The media would not move on.

ESPN followed right up with the infamous "insider" story of Lebron and company partying for days in Vegas, which they then pulled after a day apparently because of inaccuracies or promises made and broken by the reporter that things were "off the record" and they were not.

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 12:56 PM
While that cover is disturbing and a show of racial stereotypes, Lebron agreed to be on that magazine cover. So why was he ok with it then, but now it's suddenly a race issue? Shouldn't Lebron have seen the racial overtones when asked to do that shoot?

Lebron's case is actually weakened by him doing that cover...not helped. I guess money talks.

Hicks
10-04-2010, 12:59 PM
Lebron agreed to be on that magazine cover...

... and along with that, I thought it was in reference to King Kong as he is King James.

Sure, you (not specifically you, Joe) can see the other angle, but I don't think you can argue that was the point of it.

As Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" (as opposed to a phallic reference).

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 01:02 PM
Well I can see both sides, it was probably a reference they just should have avoided altogether. I'm not offended by it though.

Since86
10-04-2010, 01:11 PM
To say that the media just reflects the thoughts of the people, that's all well and good. But sometimes (quite often, IMO) they reinforce stereotypes to the extent that it becomes and chicken-and-egg situation to know where it all started. Are they reporting what we want to hear? If we want to hear something and something else is true, do they not report it?

An example, separate from the race issue: Where did the perception come from that NBA players are generally thugs and hoodlums, while football players are gladiators and we can tolerate their indiscretions, within limits?

Say that tonight a Pacers player and a Colts player get arrested on separate DUI incidents. Which story do you think will lead the late local news and which one will not even get mentioned? The media has power to reinforce and yes to shape opinion, by whether they cover a story at all, and by how they cover it.


It's kind of hard to have a debate with someone that openly can't understand what's being said.

When did I say the media just reflects overall opinion? I didn't. I said they didn't even have time to get an opinion out before we non-journalists were already talking about how stupid an idea "The Decision" was going to be.

Within minutes of the announcement, we on this board were already talking about it and saying it was going to blow up in his face.


This move doesn't seem classy.


Ken Berger at CBS agrees that if LeBron bails on Cleveland this way, it instantly turns him into a huge villian. They'd need the WWF guy there to narrate the proceedings.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/13609236?tag=pageRow;pageContainer (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/13609236?tag=pageRow;pageContainer)

Also, surely this moniker has been used, but I'd never heard it before. Mike Freeman dubs him LeFavre James.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6264363/23045834?tag=pageRow;pageContainer (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6264363/23045834?tag=pageRow;pageContainer)

Those are responses in the first few minutes.

You can read the rest here.http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=54868&highlight=decision

So like I've said from the beginning of this stupid round and round argument, if the media is racist then so is just about everyone on this board because their opinion on how this "special" was going to go down was spot on.

It doesn't take a rocket sciencist to understand it was going to blow up in his face.

Slick Pinkham
10-04-2010, 01:19 PM
When did I say the media just reflects overall opinion?

here


The media covered it the way everyone was taking it. You can't seperate the two reactions, because they are one in the same.

Since86
10-04-2010, 01:21 PM
And I'm talking about this SPECIFIC instance, not the media in every instance.

You used the term "reflects" when I'm saying "reflected." Call it semantics all you want, but there is a huge difference, especially when you devolve into the whole "thugs" debate.

I'm not talking about the media's role in other stories, I'm talking about THIS story.

Slick Pinkham
10-04-2010, 01:22 PM
It's kind of hard to have a debate with someone that openly can't understand what's being said.

Classy, you are. Civil through and through.

You and Dan Gilbert must have gone to finishing school together.

I'm through discussing this because you are nothing but a jerk in all of your responses.

Since86
10-04-2010, 01:24 PM
And yet you feel comfortable calling people who disagree with what he did racist.

Sorry if I don't shed a tear.

Slick Pinkham
10-04-2010, 01:26 PM
And yet you feel comfortable calling people who disagree with what he did racist.


never did, not once.

keep lying away

you do it well

Since86
10-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Then what is this whole discussion about?

Is the thread title "Maverick Carter (LeBron's manager) plays the race card" I must have changed threads without realizing. Weird.

Slick Pinkham
10-04-2010, 02:32 PM
Can you not understand the difference between what you have said is my position:


you feel comfortable calling people who disagree with what he did racist

and my actual, clearly stated position, namely that Carter & James statement that race could have played a factor in how his free agency was covered in the media should not just be dismissed out of hand, and moreover that it should not definitely NOT be confused with the ridiculous knee-jerk misinterpretation of their position, saying that they believe that anyone who dislikes James, his decision, or how he announced it must therefore be racist.

You are accusing me of saying precisely the very thing that I took great effort to clarify was the principle misconception of this entire discussion.

Moreover, you felt the need to use a rude, arrogant, and condescending tone in your responses. Maybe I was wrong above to respond in kind, but I was wondering if you would even notice, or perhaps you would be unfazed by someone calling you out not just for your repeated inaccuracies but also for you chest-thumping internet tough guy testosterone-laced air of superiority.

People have opinions on here. Some of them might be different from yours, but you should at least respect them and also try to understand them.

Since86
10-04-2010, 03:12 PM
Thank you for once again proving that you are unable to even comprehend my very simple point.

I find it funny that you're saying I'm dismissing your opinion when you flat out called Jason Whitlock's spot on analysis "That Whitlock article, like almost all Whitlock articles, was poorly thought out, poorly written, off the mark in multiple points though occasional he stubled upon a coherent thought, and if I could un-thank the person for posting it, I would do so a thousand times.

I guess we will agree to disagree. "

And in the middle of it mocked my "thank it a thousand times quote." Sorry bud, but if you're going to openly mock my words then you have no room to play a freaking victim of my "chest-thumping internet tough guy testosterone-laced air of superiority."

Give me a freaking break.

I have the opinion that what he did was stupid, arrogant, and a whole bunch of other adjectives that have been covered in this thread and in multiple others. Because I have that opinion, which is shared by most of the media, you find that it's perfectly acceptable to call the media racist, but then balk at the idea of calling me racist when my opinion and the media's opinion are one in the same.

The reverse example would be me calling Maverick Carter an idiot for having his opinion, which you obviously agree with, and then me trying to tell you that I don't think you're an idiot but just Mr. Carter.

If Mr. Carter is an idiot based soley on his opinion on this matter, than anyone who agrees with him is an idiot also. If the media is racist because of their opinion about "The Decision" than anyone who agrees with the media on this subject, by default, is also a racist.

That's not a hard position to understand, but yet here we are 3 freaking days later and you're still trying to say the media's opinion and my opinion are different when we're saying the EXACT SAME THING.

If you want me to treat you with respect, and have civilized discussion, then you probably shouldn't openly mock me or call my opinion racist.

Slick Pinkham
10-04-2010, 03:39 PM
you probably shouldn't ... call my opinion racist.

when did I?

welcome to me ignore list. You are the very first on it since, not even one among a multitude of banned posters has ever reached your level of outright total dishonesty and obnoxiousness.

Since86
10-04-2010, 03:40 PM
Am I speaking in Spanish?

Media opinion=racist
Media opinion=my opinion
My opinion=racist

But this is how you view it.

Media opinion=racist
Media opinion=my opinion
My opinion=not racist

Slick Pinkham
10-04-2010, 03:51 PM
99% of all media criticism of Lebron James was probably justified, and I sid so many many pages back. I personally think that Lebron is an arrogant egomaniacal jerk. Saying that race could have played a factor in the huge media firestorm does not mean I think the media as a whole is largely racist, has an overwhelmingly racist opinion, or even supports by and large the fringe elements that do. Somebody needs to help me locate the ignore button before I hear you tell me that up is down and left is right.

edit, aha!... found it... "Since86 has successfully be added to your ignore list..."

Bliss!

Trader Joe
10-04-2010, 03:57 PM
:facepalm:

EDIT: Oh come on that's not the smiley code for the Picard facepalm?

What is it?

:picard:

EDIT: Boom shaka laka.

Indra
10-04-2010, 09:52 PM
Yeah, when your favorite athletes are white and your least favorite are all black, that's just a coincidence.Really sad to bring that up.

Jesus Christ, the only person making this about race is you. I love Peyton Manning and Pistol Pete, but I also love Chad Johnson and Reggie Miller. I grew up worshiping Reg. The reason racism is still an issue is because people like you won't shut up about it every time something like this comes up. Not everything is about race. I dislike selfish, arrogant people of every color.

Day-V
10-04-2010, 10:05 PM
to me the way Eli left san diego is almost as bad

Ugh, it's not even in the same zip code.

Eli pretty much told the Chargers that he did not want to play there and that if they drafted him, he would not sign. They drafted him anyway. And besides, they got Phillip Rivers out of it. If anything, one could argue that San Diego got the better QB (that's a different discussion).

The Cavs lost LeBron, had no intention he was leaving until he told everyone, and got neither a star nor a draft pick in return.

Kstat
10-04-2010, 10:07 PM
Jesus Christ, the only person making this about race is you.

Really? Now I'm the subject of this thread?


I love Peyton Manning and Pistol Pete, but I also love Chad Johnson and Reggie Miller.

...and John Rocker has had five black people over his house. Nothing is as suspicious or self-serving than someone going on the defensive about being racist without even being accused or even suspected...it's like that guy that always has to show everyone how not gay he is....

I never accused anybody here of being racist. I only asked people to be open-minded enough to consider the possibility that race might play a bigger factor than people want to believe. But I am learning a lot from the angry, defensive denials by random people I wasn't even speaking to.

Here's a tip. if you aren't a racist, you shouldn't have to prove to everybody else that you aren't racist. You shouldn't feel the need to name all the non-white people you like as proof that you aren't racist. Even if you're directly accused as such, you're under no obligation to prove anything unless you've done something wrong.

Indra
10-04-2010, 10:29 PM
Really? Now I'm the subject of this thread?



...and John Rocker has had five black people over his house. Nothing is as suspicious or self-serving than someone going on the defensive about being racist without even being accused or even suspected...it's like that guy that always has to show everyone how not gay he is....

I never accused anybody here of being racist. I only asked people to be open-minded enough to consider the possibility that race might play a bigger factor than people want to believe. But I am learning a lot from the angry, defensive denials by random people I wasn't even speaking to.

Here's a tip. if you aren't a racist, you shouldn't have to prove to everybody else that you aren't racist. You shouldn't feel the need to name all the non-white people you like as proof that you aren't racist. Even if you're directly accused as such, you're under no obligation to prove anything unless you've done something wrong.

So what does it mean when I list white and black people that I like? You're obviously the race expert here, so why don't you tell me what my thoughts and opinions are.

I honestly don't give a **** what your rules and protocols are. I don't need to prove to anybody what I am. The only reason I'm talking about race right now is because people like you won't shut up about it. In my experience, 99% of the time race is being brought up it's by a minority. I'm not saying there isn't racism out there, I'm just saying that most white people don't give a crap about what color you are, but minorities cling to it.

People are talking about LeBron because he's one of the sporting world's biggest stars, and he publicly showed how arrogant and self-centered he is. It has nothing to do with his race. He can't have his cake and eat it too. He wants all the coverage, but none of the bad coverage.

Day-V
10-04-2010, 10:49 PM
The only reason I'm talking about race right now is because people like you won't shut up about it. In my experience, 99% of the time race is being brought up it's by a minority. I'm not saying there isn't racism out there, I'm just saying that most white people don't give a crap about what color you are, but minorities cling to it.

Might want to pump the brakes on that one, Chief.

xBulletproof
10-04-2010, 10:51 PM
I'm thinking this thread has juuuuust about run out of steam.

Kstat
10-04-2010, 11:20 PM
I honestly don't give a **** what your rules and protocols are. I don't need to prove to anybody what I am.

...and yet, you just tried....


The only reason I'm talking about race right now is because people like you won't shut up about it.

People like me? What kind of people is that?


In my experience, 99% of the time race is being brought up it's by a minority. I'm not saying there isn't racism out there, I'm just saying that most white people don't give a crap about what color you are, but minorities cling to it.

When I think of my country, three things come to mind: baseball, apple pie, and white people who don't care about skin color.

When will minorities get over this silly race thing? Sheesh. They really need to grow up.

vnzla81
10-04-2010, 11:23 PM
:inbeforethelock2:

Peck
10-04-2010, 11:24 PM
Ok, please for the love of all that is holy let us stop with the interpesonal back & forth.

This topic is close enough to crossing the lines however I really don't want to close this or see it closed because it is on topic of basketball & there are questions to be both asked and answered.

Accusing each other of racism or lack thereof is going to go nowhere fast.

Kstat
10-04-2010, 11:30 PM
wait...someone just said "white people don't give a crap about race, but minorities cling to it," and you're worried about it getting interpersonal?

pianoman
10-04-2010, 11:32 PM
C'mon folks, this is NOT the place for it.

Kstat
10-04-2010, 11:35 PM
Well, the main theme of this thread is race. You can't suddenly decide 8 pages later that it's inappropriate discussion when things are said relating to the intended topic that you aren't comfortable with.

Given that we have a rule against political hot button topics, I'm surprised this one was let in. But since it's in, the ugliness should come with it.

vnzla81
10-05-2010, 12:17 AM
:inbeforethelock:

Hicks
10-05-2010, 12:24 AM
Restraint is not the enemy.