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View Full Version : Pacers To Pick Up Hibbert's 11-12 Option, Unsure On Rush



MillerTime
09-30-2010, 11:08 AM
Brandon Rush is using training camp and the preseason to convince the Pacers to pick up his his $2.9 million team option for the 11-12 season.

Rush will be suspended for the first five games of the season.

"I do think it could play a part a little bit, but I'm trying not to worry about it," said Rush, who has been practicing with the second unit. "I should be fine as long as I come out here and show I've been putting in the work and I've changed my lifestyle. Everything should work out fine if I do those things."

The Pacers are expected to pick up center Roy Hibbert's $2.6 million option for next season.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100930/SPORTS04/9300451/1062/SPORTS04
Indy Star

Mike Wells

Hicks
09-30-2010, 11:12 AM
Do you think the risk of him "breaking out" exceeds the benefit of not being committed to him in the future in the event that he gets into any sort of trouble again?

I'm on the fence, but I suppose since we're talking relatively little money, it'd be wiser to hang onto him for now. You can always trade him.

vnzla81
09-30-2010, 11:13 AM
I'll be really mad if they let him go, he is the main factor the pacers defense improved last year, in fact he is the best defender on the team.

ThA HoyA
09-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Of course they will pick it up, lance is still on the team. They just want to light a fire in his game haha.

MillerTime
09-30-2010, 11:24 AM
I dont think they'll let him go, it'll just be stupid. If they dont want him on the team, Im sure they could sign him to a 3 year $8 million deal and trade him away. His defence is still good. He shows potential on offence, and then some nights doesnt show up.

I think this is Bird's front of showing "no tolerence"...they could be trying to scare Rush so he'll smarten up and start playing

Speed
09-30-2010, 11:25 AM
Do you think the risk of him "breaking out" exceeds the benefit of not being committed to him in the future in the event that he gets into any sort of trouble again?

I'm on the fence, but I suppose since we're talking relatively little money, it'd be wiser to hang onto him for now. You can always trade him.

Agreed, you at the very least keep him as an asset, unless of course you have an indication he's still smoking dope.

Kuq_e_Zi91
09-30-2010, 11:36 AM
Agreed, you at the very least keep him as an asset, unless of course you have an indication he's still smoking dope.

I thought dope was heroin?

Anyways, I'd still sign him for $2.9 million even if he kept smoking weed. I'd just prefer he only does it in the off-season so he doesn't get caught again. Not only for his sake and the suspensions/fines/etc he would face, but also for team PR purposes.

MyFavMartin
09-30-2010, 11:55 AM
I would automatically pick it up even with no intention of keeping him as he's a young talent on a rookie contract and thus still has decent trade value.

travmil
09-30-2010, 11:59 AM
I think eventually they'll pick up Brandon's option. But there's no reason at all that they can't use this situation to their advantage to scare him straight and make him sweat a little.

CableKC
09-30-2010, 12:16 PM
Not picking up BRush's Team option would be stupid unless the offense is so bad that it's giving the FO serious concerns. As many have said...at worst....he's a cheap pickup that can easily be traded.

Justin Tyme
09-30-2010, 12:23 PM
I'd just prefer he only does it in the off-season so he doesn't get caught again. Not only for his sake and the suspensions/fines/etc he would face, but also for team PR purposes.


It's comments like this that drives me up a wall. You are condoning him doing something that is ILLEGAL! Until the law is changed it's illegal, plain n simple.

Kuq_e_Zi91
09-30-2010, 12:36 PM
It's comments like this that drives me up a wall. You are condoning him doing something that is ILLEGAL! Until the law is changed it's illegal, plain n simple.

My intention isn't to talk about legalizing it or the negative or positive effects of smoking marijuana.

I just don't care what he does in the off-season as long as he isn't hurting anyone or anything, and he's ready when it's time to work.

Trader Joe
09-30-2010, 01:05 PM
Posturing.

Sookie
09-30-2010, 01:26 PM
He's cheap so you keep him, but I'd let him be nervous for a bit. How long do the Pacers have to decide?

Heisenberg
09-30-2010, 03:10 PM
He's cheap so you keep him, but I'd let him be nervous for a bit. How long do the Pacers have to decide?I believe opening day

count55
09-30-2010, 03:13 PM
I believe opening day

October 31st.

All options on rookie scale (1st Round) contracts have to be picked up by Halloween of the year before. Therefore, the Pacers will need decide the fourth year for Roy and Brandon and the third year for Hansbrough by Oct 31st.

NapTonius Monk
09-30-2010, 03:22 PM
On another note, it's looking like Portland may not pick up Oden's extension. I'd be all for the twin towers experiment.

naptownmenace
09-30-2010, 03:25 PM
I really don't see why they should pick up the option. He's not a highly regarded player around the league and I doubt he'll get an offer as a free agent worth more than 2.9 million the first year.

I think they should wait and let him play for his next contract, whether that's with the Pacers or somewhere else. If he has a breakout season and commands top dollar from another team, I think the Pacers will be able to give all his minutes to Paul George and not miss a beat. That's also an extra 2.9 million in salary cap space too.

Coop
09-30-2010, 04:03 PM
On another note, it's looking like Portland may not pick up Oden's extension. I'd be all for the twin towers experiment.

I'd love to see Oden back in Indy. He's been injury prone, but if you can get him for cheap and let him have some spot duty backing up Hibbert, you're in pretty good shape in the frontcourt. If he's able to shake his injury issues, the upside is still there to really pay off in the long run. He's still only 22 years old.

pathil275
09-30-2010, 04:43 PM
I thought dope was heroin?

Anyways, I'd still sign him for $2.9 million even if he kept smoking weed. I'd just prefer he only does it in the off-season so he doesn't get caught again. Not only for his sake and the suspensions/fines/etc he would face, but also for team PR purposes.

First, I agree that they should extend him or at least exercise the option to keep him as an asset.

But seriously, that just sounds so wrong on so many levels. 3 million and he as an athlete is allowed to smoke weed? Seriously? I dont know how u guys handle that over there, but a professional shouldnt be allowed to smoke at all, let alone weed. They earn a **** load of money, are idols for many kids growing up, representing a community (or an entire state) and than u are fine with him smoking pot in the offseason? Come on.

Besides, guess it isnt good for his conditioning, but most of all it shows his character and his lack of attitude. Further, he was caught in the very offseason..

graphic-er
09-30-2010, 04:44 PM
I'd let Rush play for his future at this point. We already have a hand full of SG's.

Kuq_e_Zi91
09-30-2010, 05:21 PM
First, I agree that they should extend him or at least exercise the option to keep him as an asset.

But seriously, that just sounds so wrong on so many levels. 3 million and he as an athlete is allowed to smoke weed? Seriously? I dont know how u guys handle that over there, but a professional shouldnt be allowed to smoke at all, let alone weed. They earn a **** load of money, are idols for many kids growing up, representing a community (or an entire state) and than u are fine with him smoking pot in the offseason? Come on.

Besides, guess it isnt good for his conditioning, but most of all it shows his character and his lack of attitude. Further, he was caught in the very offseason..

I don't know what you mean by saying what he makes allows him to smoke weed. No one is "allowed", but it happens. What I'm saying is many people can smoke weed, and still continue to be very successful, responsible individuals. Some people are just better at keeping it a part of their private lives than others. In Brandon's case, it showed a lack of judgment and maturity (or to be blunt, sheer stupidity) to be smoking during the season, especially after you already failed twice. It's something that I hope he learns from in the future - keeping his work and his private life separate.

I don't think many kids who watch the Pacers say, "I want to be just like #25!" (no offense to Brandon) But still, athletes have proven to be terrible role models for a long time now. I know, I used to idolize them myself as a kid. But you get older and you see that these people are very different when they're not on the court (as you would expect many people to be away from their work) so you learn to not get too attached just in case they mess up like this. And not getting too attached leads back to what my initial point was of not worrying about what they do in the off-season as long as they're not putting others in danger and that when the time comes to work, they work and earn that $3 million.

MillerTime
09-30-2010, 05:50 PM
He's cheap so you keep him, but I'd let him be nervous for a bit. How long do the Pacers have to decide?
Pacers have until Oct 31 or Rush will become a free agent in July 2011

Dece
09-30-2010, 06:16 PM
I don't value Rush at 2.9M. Sure, it's not terrible value for him, either, but we just don't have a need. Unless we think some team would really want to trade for him, I'd let it expire, offer him a LLE type 1-1.5M deal, or he can sign elsewhere.

DaveP63
09-30-2010, 06:19 PM
Done deal on big Roy...Just got the Email!

Will Galen
09-30-2010, 09:57 PM
I really don't see why they should pick up the option. He's not a highly regarded player around the league and I doubt he'll get an offer as a free agent worth more than 2.9 million the first year.

I think they should wait and let him play for his next contract, whether that's with the Pacers or somewhere else. If he has a breakout season and commands top dollar from another team, I think the Pacers will be able to give all his minutes to Paul George and not miss a beat. That's also an extra 2.9 million in salary cap space too.

I agree. What has Rush did as a starter that is so great?

I can't believe I'm going to play this card I dislike it so, but I can't picture him being a starter on a team contending for a championship. The Pacer's would be better served with him coming off the bench ala Bruce Bowin.

McRoberts is only only making $885,000 this year, and I think he's got just as much upside. Let Rush play for his new contract! As of right now he doesn't deserve the Pacers picking up his extension.

BlueNGold
09-30-2010, 10:04 PM
I don't know what you mean by saying what he makes allows him to smoke weed. No one is "allowed", but it happens. What I'm saying is many people can smoke weed, and still continue to be very successful, responsible individuals. Some people are just better at keeping it a part of their private lives than others. In Brandon's case, it showed a lack of judgment and maturity (or to be blunt, sheer stupidity) to be smoking during the season, especially after you already failed twice. It's something that I hope he learns from in the future - keeping his work and his private life separate.

I don't think many kids who watch the Pacers say, "I want to be just like #25!" (no offense to Brandon) But still, athletes have proven to be terrible role models for a long time now. I know, I used to idolize them myself as a kid. But you get older and you see that these people are very different when they're not on the court (as you would expect many people to be away from their work) so you learn to not get too attached just in case they mess up like this. And not getting too attached leads back to what my initial point was of not worrying about what they do in the off-season as long as they're not putting others in danger and that when the time comes to work, they work and earn that $3 million.

Funding the drug trade is not good, anyway you want to cut it. Popular drugs like MJ bankrolls people involved in trafficking more dangerous drugs and probably human trafficking as well. People die all the time because of the purchase and use of illegal drugs regardless of how safe they might be.

...so those "some people" should fight harder for legalization and stop smoking it until it is legal.

McKeyFan
09-30-2010, 10:13 PM
It's comments like this that drives me up a wall. You are condoning him doing something that is ILLEGAL! Until the law is changed it's illegal, plain n simple.

There are lots of things illegal that aren't immoral. Lots of pot smokers do lots of good things for humanity. Marijuana has been proven to help eyesight and helps guys shoot the three better. And what makes you so morally superior? Who are you to judge? Judge not Lester the Judge!

Will Galen
09-30-2010, 10:31 PM
There are lots of things illegal that aren't immoral. Lots of pot smokers do lots of good things for humanity. Marijuana has been proven to help eyesight and helps guys shoot the three better. And what makes you so morally superior? Who are you to judge? Judge not Lester the Judge!

I agree with Justin! And who am I to judge? Well Rush had to fail 3 dope tests and that's what I'm judging him on!

McKeyFan
10-01-2010, 08:43 AM
I agree with Justin! And who am I to judge? Well Rush had to fail 3 dope tests and that's what I'm judging him on!

I was feeling a bit grouchy. Notice the color of the exclamation point.

Putnam
10-01-2010, 08:49 AM
There are lots of things illegal that aren't immoral. Lots of pot smokers do lots of good things for humanity. Marijuana has been proven to help eyesight and helps guys shoot the three better. And what makes you so morally superior? Who are you to judge? Judge not Lester the Judge!


Yikes! What would the Metropolitan think of this post?






k

pacergod2
10-01-2010, 09:42 AM
Why wouldn't you pick up the option on a defensive ace with a good three point shot? $2.9M is relatively small in NBA terms. The kid has been in the league for TWO years. That is it. There are a lot of players that don't even sniff the court for three years because they aren't ready. Brandon has been productive. Those of you expecting him to be a number one scoring option are being ridiculous. He royally screwed up by failing the drug tests, but it doesn't mean he shouldn't get another year to develop. This is basketball. Not the fifth district court. Guys in the NBA have done so many worse things and gotten away with it and we are more concerned that the kid smokes pot than we are with Lance Stephenson beating up a woman. Lance is regarded as the next big thing around here. He couldn't sniff Brandon's jock strap defensively. I am not trying to take away from either of these guys but why is everybody jumping on this bandwagon to exile a very good young player. Just because you are only capable of looking at the offensive side of the ball? You are the ones talking out of both sides of your mouth, not JOB.

I am confident that we should pick up his option. If we can't make a move and have to cut someone, is it really going to be Rush? Solo has been looking a hell of a lot better to me in those videos. He doesn't look as lost as he did last year and we could use the depth up front. Who would we cut?

Jason Williams failed so many drug tests he started refusing to take them and just let the league assume it was a failed test. He is still in the league.

Putnam
10-01-2010, 09:49 AM
another year to develop.



He's under contract this year. Is it really necessary to guarantee NEXT year in order to see what he'll do THIS year?

Always bearing in mind the expiring collective bargaining agreement.

Justin Tyme
10-01-2010, 09:54 AM
There are lots of things illegal that aren't immoral. Lots of pot smokers do lots of good things for humanity. Marijuana has been proven to help eyesight and helps guys shoot the three better. And what makes you so morally superior? Who are you to judge? Judge not Lester the Judge!


My POINT is it's illegal! PLAIN N SIMPLE. So if a BB player can shoot a 3 better, it's alright! You need to get your priorities straight.

My morals aren't the one in question, but Rush's is! I'm not the one representing a 300 mil plus sports franchise that can ill afford PR problems, RUSH IS. Either he values his employer and his career enough to do what is right or he doesn't. Rush doesn't seem to be able to not indulge after being caught the 1st 2 times. You really think he's going to quit? Take your rose colored glasses off so you can see Rush has a problem. Or I guess you can jump on the bandwaggon of thought that what illegal acts someone does in their personal life is of no consequence to others as long as it does hurt others. Well in Rush's case, it did hurt others. It hurt the Pacers organization.

I have a "habit" of responding to a post as I read them and not after reading the whole thread. I didn't read your post about being grouchy until after I made this post. I've been referred as an old grouchy..... whatever fits.... many of a time. I hope your day gets better.

pacergod2
10-01-2010, 09:54 AM
He's under contract this year. Is it really necessary to guarantee NEXT year in order to see what he'll do THIS year?

Always bearing in mind the expiring collective bargaining agreement.

Obviously not, but if he comes out an improved player this year and continues to work on his game the following summer, he could be the answer at SG for this team. I don't think you let someone with his talent go elsewhere. Make sure you give him the length of his rookie contract to make sure he is or isn't the player you envisioned him becoming when you drafted him. If you really don't want him around, he would be great trade filler to go with Ford. You HAVE to pick up his option, because you can. He is an asset. Why give someone else your assets?

vnzla81
10-01-2010, 11:14 AM
I think is funny that some guys here want to get rid of Rush, a second year player that average 9.4 ppg 4.20 rpg 1.4apg and +10.20 eff and want to replace him with an eight years broken down veteran that average 9.9ppg 3.50rpg 1.5 apt and +9.43 eff.

I would also mention that the young player only makes 2.5mil a year when the broken down vet makes 10mil a year :twocents:

Putnam
10-01-2010, 11:36 AM
You HAVE to pick up his option, because you can. He is an asset.

I'm with you about letting Rush redeem himself on and off the court. But haven't we learned our lesson yet? Hasn't the principle you espouse glutted the Pacers roster with overpaid and unwanted players year after year for a decade? Didn't we learn from Croshere? Bender? Tinsley?

Anyway, not picking up the team option is not the same as letting a player go. If the Pacers decline to pick up Rush's option now, and then he proves himself during the season, the Pacers can still pay him what he's worth next summer.



Why give someone else your assets?

Gah! Declining to pick up a player's option is not giving assets to another team. Giving assets to another team is what happens when you sign a guy to a long guaranteed contract and then discover that he's such damaged good that you're willing to pay him to stay away. That is what we did with Tinsley and Bender and James White and I forget who else.

(Am I right that those three players all signed with another team while they were still drawing money from the Pacers, or in Bender's case, from the insurance-funded contract buyout? There are other players who stayed on the Pacers roster but were worthless or overpriced.)


.

Hicks
10-01-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm with you about letting Rush redeem himself on and off the court. But haven't we learned our lesson yet? Hasn't the principle you espouse glutted the Pacers roster with overpaid and unwanted players year after year for a decade? Didn't we learn from Croshere? Bender? Tinsley?

Those three burned us because we gave them big, new contracts. This is not what we're discussing with regards to Brandon Rush. We're simply discussing the addition of another year to his cheap rookie-scale salary, which is far, far more manageable.

Putnam
10-01-2010, 12:15 PM
Those three burned us because we gave them big, new contracts. This is not what we're discussing with regards to Brandon Rush. We're simply discussing the addition of another year to his cheap rookie-scale salary, which is far, far more manageable.

Yes. The different amounts involved is important and I thought about that after I clicked send. There's a roster spot involved either way.

I was responding to pacergod2's use of the phrase "give someone else your assets." I don't think that applies to the Rush situation at all. If he walks and another team signs him, they'll have to pay him. If we want to re-sign him next summer, we can pay him what he's worth. There's no giving away assets involved there either way.

Speed
10-01-2010, 12:38 PM
Just skimmed through the thread, but what's Rush's value as a Free Agent, I wonder? Is it cheaper to sign him as a Free Agent, surely not?

McKeyFan
10-03-2010, 02:21 PM
Yikes! What would the Metropolitan think of this post?






k
He may wonder who Lester is.

ksuttonjr76
10-05-2010, 03:34 AM
He's not a terrible player by any means. He's serviceable. I would pick up his option. With our current roster and potential, I see Rush as the last option at best. If he scores over 10 PPG while playing alongside Granger, George, Collision, and Hibbert, I figured he exceeded expectations.

IndyPacer
10-05-2010, 08:06 AM
Not picking up Rush's option would be a terrible idea. It's true that he screwed up with smoking wacky weed, but unless there is evidence that he will continue to cause problems, at least give him another year at a low cost within his rookie contract. We don't have a suitable replacement ready right now anyway.

Putnam
10-05-2010, 08:26 AM
Not picking up Rush's option would be a terrible idea. It's true that he screwed up with smoking wacky weed, but unless there is evidence that he will continue to cause problems, at least give him another year at a low cost within his rookie contract. We don't have a suitable replacement ready right now anyway.



What if the issue isn't the drug infraction at all? What if the coaches, who've seen Rush much oftener and much closer than we have, know that last year is as good as Rush can get? Remember that his two brothers also knocked around the NBA and then fell out of it. Maybe mediocrity is congenital.

What if they know right now that Rush is not part of the future at the wing?

Dahntay Jones is already locked in for those same two years at a cheaper rate than Rush, and he's as good a defender as Rush, so even the "low cost" argument doesn't justify Rush.

I'm not a Rush hater at all. This just seems like as occasion to give TPTB a pass.

vnzla81
10-05-2010, 09:12 AM
What if the issue isn't the drug infraction at all? What if the coaches, who've seen Rush much oftener and much closer than we have, know that last year is as good as Rush can get? Remember that his two brothers also knocked around the NBA and then fell out of it. Maybe mediocrity is congenital.

What if they know right now that Rush is not part of the future at the wing?

Dahntay Jones is already locked in for those same two years at a cheaper rate than Rush, and he's as good a defender as Rush, so even the "low cost" argument doesn't justify Rush.

I'm not a Rush hater at all. This just seems like as occasion to give TPTB a pass.



What? "the coaches know that Rush is as good as he is ever going to get" and they knew all this time that Mcbob was going to be the starter? Man this coaches are good :rolleyes:

IndyPacer
10-05-2010, 09:15 AM
What if the issue isn't the drug infraction at all? What if the coaches, who've seen Rush much oftener and much closer than we have, know that last year is as good as Rush can get? Remember that his two brothers also knocked around the NBA and then fell out of it. Maybe mediocrity is congenital.

What if they know right now that Rush is not part of the future at the wing?

Dahntay Jones is already locked in for those same two years at a cheaper rate than Rush, and he's as good a defender as Rush, so even the "low cost" argument doesn't justify Rush.

I'm not a Rush hater at all. This just seems like as occasion to give TPTB a pass.

Jones is not as good on defense as Rush, plus Rush is the best outside shooter on the team. Rush is a better player than Jones. Also, it shouldn't be overlooked that Rush has been playing the most minutes for this team. If you are dumping the guy who logs the most time on your team, you better be sure you have a suitable replacement. I don't see anyone on the roster that is that guy right now. Maybe George down the road.

IndyPacer
10-05-2010, 09:19 AM
What? "the coaches know that Rush is as good as he is ever going to get" and they knew all this time that Mcbob was going to be the starter? Man this coaches are good :rolleyes:

That's another issue that drove me insane. I wouldn't make any "he's as good as he's going to get" assumptions under JOB anyway. I don't see Rush being able to perform at his best under JOB. I want to see what Rush can do under a good coach. There's a reason Brown and Pop have tried to trade for Rush.

naptownmenace
10-05-2010, 10:03 AM
Not picking up Rush's option would be a terrible idea. It's true that he screwed up with smoking wacky weed, but unless there is evidence that he will continue to cause problems, at least give him another year at a low cost within his rookie contract. We don't have a suitable replacement ready right now anyway.

Paying him 2.9 million next season is a problem to me. I don't think he's worth it especially with so many other wings out performing him in training camp. He's not going to start and will probably only be called upon for defensive assignments. I doubt he's going to have the opportunity to even match last year's production if Dunleavy improves and Paul is as good as he has looked thus far.

The number 1 reason you don't pick up the option is - he's the easiest player on the roster to replace.

vnzla81
10-05-2010, 10:53 AM
Paying him 2.9 million next season is a problem to me. I don't think he's worth it especially with so many other wings out performing him in training camp. He's not going to start and will probably only be called upon for defensive assignments. I doubt he's going to have the opportunity to even match last year's production if Dunleavy improves and Paul is as good as he has looked thus far.

The number 1 reason you don't pick up the option is - he's the easiest player on the roster to replace.



Rush is not worth it at 2.9mil but Dunleavy at 10mil and DJ at 2.5 are the better options? Really?

naptownmenace
10-05-2010, 12:11 PM
Rush is not worth it at 2.9mil but Dunleavy at 10mil and DJ at 2.5 are the better options? Really?

No, but Dunleavy is in his final year and he's not on a rookie scale contract. Also as a number 3 draft pick, MDJ was making more even during his rookie scale deal.

Personally, I think Dhantay Jones and Rush are equal players (Brandon is a better 3-point shooter and rebounder while DJ gets a slight nod on defense and at finishing at the rim) and to my knowledge, Dhantay hasn't failed 3 drug tests. So yes I think paying DJ 2.5 is better than paying Rush 2.9.

Kuq_e_Zi91
10-05-2010, 03:10 PM
No, but Dunleavy is in his final year and he's not on a rookie scale contract. Also as a number 3 draft pick, MDJ was making more even during his rookie scale deal.

Personally, I think Dhantay Jones and Rush are equal players (Brandon is a better 3-point shooter and rebounder while DJ gets a slight nod on defense and at finishing at the rim) and to my knowledge, Dhantay hasn't failed 3 drug tests. So yes I think paying DJ 2.5 is better than paying Rush 2.9.

Just curious, why do you think Dahntay is the better defender?

cordobes
10-05-2010, 05:25 PM
On another note, it's looking like Portland may not pick up Oden's extension. I'd be all for the twin towers experiment.

You mean they won't negotiate an extension this Summer. They can still submit the qualifying offer and he'll be a restricted free agent next year. I've read he's now dealing with a patellar tendinitis. Getting harder to remain optimistic on his health.

I think the Pacers will eventually pick up Rush's option.