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View Full Version : For those with doubts on whether the PnR with Collison will be considered...



jcouts
09-29-2010, 12:54 AM
"O'Brien is giving his coaching staff more of a voice in practice. The Pacers will continue to push the ball, but O'Brien plans to put newly acquired point guard Darren Collison in pick-and-roll situations, where he excels. O'Brien plans to exploit Collison's ability on offense."

"One of the great things about coaching -- really as much fun as you can have, in my estimation -- is taking a group of people and finding out how to make them a better offensive team, how can we have this particular group most effective at the offensive end," O'Brien said.

IndyStar - Indiana Pacers believe the pieces finally are in place (http://www.indystar.com/article/20100928/SPORTS04/9280336/1062/SPORTS04/Pacers-think-the-pieces-are-finally-in-place-for-playoffs)

Sookie
09-29-2010, 01:03 AM
WTF Mike Wells or JOB...you just said...never mind..I guess we'll see how things work in a few days.

imawhat
09-29-2010, 03:35 AM
Followed by this quote from Collison in today's paper:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100929/SPORTS04/9290329/1062/SPORTS04/O-Brien-is-pleased-with-team-s-conditioning

O'Brien is pleased with team's conditioning

By: Mike Wells

"It's going to take some time to get used to how things are done here," Collison said. "My game is really predicated on the pick-and-roll system. I can move without the ball. I like the idea of pushing it and moving without the ball."

Trophy
09-29-2010, 07:34 AM
Roy is pretty good with the PnR. He's gotten better.

OakMoses
09-29-2010, 08:22 AM
One thing we know from past years with JO'B is that offensive sets are the last thing he installs during the preseason. We all went wild last year when there were no post sets for Roy in the first few preseason games, but the season showed us that they were definitely in the plans. So if Wells is implying that since he didn't see them run any PnR on the first day of training camp, that's probably an accurate statement. To make the leap, however, that that somehow indicates that we're not going to run PnR all year is a big mistake.

count55
09-29-2010, 09:04 AM
One thing we know from past years with JO'B is that offensive sets are the last thing he installs during the preseason. We all went wild last year when there were no post sets for Roy in the first few preseason games, but the season showed us that they were definitely in the plans. So if Wells is implying that since he didn't see them run any PnR on the first day of training camp, that's probably an accurate statement. To make the leap, however, that that somehow indicates that we're not going to run PnR all year is a big mistake.

Making Hibbert a focal point of the offense will necessarily put limitations on the number of PnR's we run, and how much Collison has the ball in his hands. This doesn't mean that we won't run a lot more PnR's than we have in the past, or that Collison won't have the ball in his hands a lot. It also doesn't mean that we won't use Hibbert with Collison in PnR situations. It just means that the PnR will not be the primary option.

In New Orleans, it was a PG offense, and both Collison and Paul had the ball in their hands an inordinate amount of time. There are few teams that Collison could have gone to where he wouldn't have to adjust to having less control than that.

Unclebuck
09-29-2010, 09:22 AM
I think it is prudent to wait for things to shake out and by that I mean wait until we have seen 5-10 regular season games.

Trader Joe
09-29-2010, 09:30 AM
I think it is prudent to wait for things to shake out and by that I mean wait until we have seen 5-10 regular season games.

Why? based on the scrimmage yesterday, most have seen that the team is the exact same as last year and not any better. JOB hasn't changed blah, blah, blah.

Might as well pack up the fieldhouse and just pencil us in for 30 wins.

McKeyFan
09-29-2010, 09:31 AM
Making Hibbert a focal point of the offense will necessarily put limitations on the number of PnR's we run, and how much Collison has the ball in his hands. This doesn't mean that we won't run a lot more PnR's than we have in the past, or that Collison won't have the ball in his hands a lot. It also doesn't mean that we won't use Hibbert with Collison in PnR situations. It just means that the PnR will not be the primary option.

In New Orleans, it was a PG offense, and both Collison and Paul had the ball in their hands an inordinate amount of time. There are few teams that Collison could have gone to where he wouldn't have to adjust to having less control than that.

Why do you think we are not adjusting the offense to be PG intensive, like New Orleans?

Because JOB doesn't prefer it? Or because it doesn't fit our personnel?

With the acquisition of Collison, I would have thought our personnel would fit such a scheme, but maybe not.

Anyway, I do like the idea of an offense where Roy has the ball a lot. Let's give that a go. While there are a number of players in the league as good as Collison, I haven't seen any centers that pass as well as Hibbert.

Unclebuck
09-29-2010, 09:39 AM
Why do you think we are not adjusting the offense to be PG intensive, like New Orleans?

Because JOB doesn't prefer it? Or because it doesn't fit our personnel?

With the acquisition of Collison, I would have thought our personnel would fit such a scheme, but maybe not.

Anyway, I do like the idea of an offense where Roy has the ball a lot. Let's give that a go. While there are a number of players in the league as good as Collison, I haven't seen any centers that pass as well as Hibbert.

You can do both. One of my favorite ways of getting a big guy the ball in the post is to start the play with a pick and roll, and that will free up the post player as the defense scambles - in fact starting a play with a pick and roll IMO is an effective way to start almost any play even if the goal is to use it as misdirection and even if the goal isn't to score (or get a good shot off it). A lot of teams run pick and roll to start probably 75 or 80% of their plays

I don't expect that to happen with the Pacers and that is OK, I can accept more motion as a way to start a play and certainly getting the ball to Roy at the elbow is a nice play that if I were coaching the pacers would be one of my bread and butter plays.

Collision will not score as many point as he did last season, but the key point is I believe with Roy, danny and darren, we now have enough diversity offensively to have an effective halfcourt offense. And adding Dunleavy to the mix will really help that

Trader Joe
09-29-2010, 09:40 AM
Is it possible that we think the other 4 players we put out next to Collison are more talented than what the Hornets had? Thus, we have determined that we would like more people to share time with the ball.

count55
09-29-2010, 09:53 AM
New Orleans' offense was designed around Chris Paul. IMO, Chris Paul is one of the five best players in the world. They have had a great amount of success with that.

When Collison stepped into that role, he benefited from that system, and it showed in his production. However, the team was only 14-23 with him as a starter.

I am thrilled beyond belief that we got Collison. I think he is going to be a very good ball player. I think he is going to be one of the most important players on the team for this and the coming years. However, he is not Chris Paul, and there is nothing that I've seen in his game that makes me want to design an entire offense around him.

Now, there are significant questions about Roy, but - for the half court offense - I like the idea of establishing the post first, PnR second.

Ozwalt72
09-29-2010, 10:21 AM
I think we have more talent than New Orleans did when Collison was the starter.

They have:
Marcus Thornton (Very fun to watch)
David West
Peja's husk
Okafor's cemented lower body.

We have:
Granger
Hibbert
Dunleavy
Hansbrough (Or McBob)

And our bench is deeper.

Why are we supposedly trying a post-focused approach? Lady's and Gentlemen, Roy Hibbert's impressed that much. As simple as that.

Sookie
09-29-2010, 12:17 PM
One thing I don't get though, is that last season, JOB let AJ run the PnR a lot because it was one of his strengths. Why wouldn't he let Collison do the same?

I still think of Jimmy's offense in two steps. The first one is the quick shot/fast break step..followed by the PG doing what he wants (unless instructed anyway) I'd assume that would be PnR for Collison..

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 12:21 PM
Roy is pretty good with the PnR. He's gotten better.

i would like to see PnR's with him and DC2

Unclebuck
09-29-2010, 01:15 PM
One thing I don't get though, is that last season, JOB let AJ run the PnR a lot because it was one of his strengths. Why wouldn't he let Collison do the same?

I still think of Jimmy's offense in two steps. The first one is the quick shot/fast break step..followed by the PG doing what he wants (unless instructed anyway) I'd assume that would be PnR for Collison..

Who says he isn't going to. I think he will, but maybe not as much because maybe Collison has a more well rounded game than does Price. But I'll repeat it was the first day

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 01:54 PM
Who says he isn't going to. I think he will, but maybe not as much because maybe Collison has a more well rounded game than does Price. But I'll repeat it was the first day

did u watch DC2 play last year PnR his his strong point.

Unclebuck
09-29-2010, 02:02 PM
did u watch DC2 play last year PnR his his strong point.

You misunderstood my point. Yes Collision runs the pick and roll very well, Price runs it pretty well, but not sure if price is good at much else, where as Collision might have a more varied skill set, so well lock him in to running a greater % of pick and rolls, when the team will benefit is he is encouraged to run a lot of different stuff

Sookie
09-29-2010, 02:21 PM
Who says he isn't going to. I think he will, but maybe not as much because maybe Collison has a more well rounded game than does Price. But I'll repeat it was the first day

Well we've had two different reports, which is why I said I'll wait and see. But I was actually sticking up for Jimmy there. He ran the PnR when he had a PG that could do it last season, so why wouldn't he this season? Particularly when I think Collison needs to use it more than AJ did. AJ can play any offense you want to play comfortably. (Which if you haven't seen him in college you might not have known. As last season he basically either played off the ball or played PnR) If JOB wanted to take it out of his hands, it would have been fine. Thing is, PnR is highly successful. When you have a PG good at it, you run it. Collison is good at it. I think he needs it more than AJ did (as he isn't as comfortable with different types of ways to run a team) So I'd assume, Jimmy would allow him to run it.