PDA

View Full Version : McRoberts and Dunleavy Starting



OakMoses
09-28-2010, 02:01 PM
McRoberts and Dunleavy starting at the 4 and 2 in the scrimmage.


Just left Pacers practice. Josh McRoberts is in the drivers seat for the starting PF spot.

Nothing surprising about the first. I'll believe it when I see it on the second one.

BPump33
09-28-2010, 02:04 PM
He followed up with these:


mg_indy Michael Grady Jmac & Roy pass well, r very active & play well 2gether. Not surprising since both spent a lot of time 2gether n Indy during the offseason.

mg_indy Michael Grady The chemistry between Roy & Jmac was evident during the 60-min. scrimmage the media watched 2day. JOB repeated as much after practice.

mg_indy Michael Grady
Overall the scrimmage was sloppy...but that's expected. It was good 2 c Jeff out there looking like his old self & Dunleavy has found his J

mg_indy Michael Grady
The rookies have some work to do. Lance and PG had highs and lows...while Rolle had it rough on his first day.

Unclebuck
09-28-2010, 02:23 PM
So Jmac is Josh McRoberts

BPump33
09-28-2010, 02:27 PM
mg_indy Michael Grady
JOB says Jeff may be a better option 2 back-up Roy @ the 5. Rolle is a long way off...& Tyler is learning to walk without falling again (JK)

mg_indy Michael Grady
So that leaves Solomon & JMac to compete for the 4-spot. Advantage = JMac...

vnzla81
09-28-2010, 02:29 PM
Dunleavy in the starting line up? There goes all the defense they talked about this summer, get ready to see him at pf

OakMoses
09-28-2010, 02:40 PM
Dunleavy in the starting line up? There goes all the defense they talked about this summer, get ready to see him at pf

Dunleavy is only in the starting lineup because of Rush's suspension.

Also, I'll remind you of my favorite stat that we've all forgotten:

During Dunleavy's breakout season (his first under O'Brien), his offensive output far surpassed the negative impact he had one the defensive end. He had the highest +/- on the team that year, and by most statistical measures, had a better season than Granger in terms of both individual success and team impact.

Dun's also a good team defender who's excellent in rotations and has a knack for taking charges. He just doesn't have the lateral quickness to guard most 2's or the strength to guard most 3's.

One positive of Dun starting will be that it will put a lot more pressure on Danny to play good wing defense since he'll be guarding the other team's best wing.

BPump33
09-28-2010, 02:40 PM
Say what?

mg_indy Michael Grady
For what it's worth...of the 60 minutes I saw, TJ got the better of DC 2day.

I'm just kidding about the say what. I know it's DC's first day with us.

OakMoses
09-28-2010, 02:42 PM
TJ is a very good individual basketball player, probably better than Collison.

It's too bad for him that basketball is a team sport.

90'sNBARocked
09-28-2010, 02:42 PM
mg_indy Michael Grady
JOB says Jeff may be a better option 2 back-up Roy @ the 5. Rolle is a long way off...& Tyler is learning to walk without falling again (JK)

mg_indy Michael Grady
So that leaves Solomon & JMac to compete for the 4-spot. Advantage = JMac...

I hope this will temper a bit the excitement in signing Rolle. Hopefully he can develop but if Derrick Favors is two years from being a contributor, as the number 3 pick in the draft, we can expect a much longer learning curve with Magnum

OakMoses
09-28-2010, 02:45 PM
I hope this will temper a bit the excitement in signing Rolle. Hopefully he can develop but if Derrick Favors is two years from being a contributor, as the number 3 pick in the draft, we can expect a much longer learning curve with Magnum

Right, but isn't Rolle 4-5 years older than Favors?

duke dynamite
09-28-2010, 02:45 PM
I'm okay with this lineup:

DC
Dun
DG33
JMac
Roy

Nothing wrong with it yet.

I Love P
09-28-2010, 02:50 PM
I love the thought of McBeast starting. If we want to run and gun start him if we need a defensive lineup start The Handy Man at 4.

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 03:06 PM
I love the thought of McBeast starting. If we want to run and gun start him if we need a defensive lineup start The Handy Man at 4.

i guess people dont want to win so you want to be the suns with no nash or Amare lol

90'sNBARocked
09-28-2010, 03:08 PM
Right, but isn't Rolle 4-5 years older than Favors?

Fair point, but I think Favors has the pedigree to be a great one , where I envision Rolle, at his best, a solid rotation player like Almondson or Birdman

MillerTime
09-28-2010, 03:08 PM
I would truly hate it if Dunleavy started over George and Rush...assuming that George and Rush are ready to play

Theres all this talk about defence,...Dunleavy and defence shouldnt be in the same sentence

Speed
09-28-2010, 03:09 PM
I wouldn't worry about the Rooks just yet, Magnum included. First day against the big boys pursuing their life long dreams, I'm sure they were a little nervous.

As for TJ vs DC, ya maybe today, that doesn't really surprise me. TJ knows the system, knows his teammates and has NBA caliber skills. Let's see how they look in 2 weeks after DC has adjusted and TJ falls into the same bad habits. Lastly, I wonder what MG is basing it on, scoring, finding teammates, defense, all of it? I'm not saying MG doesn't know, but it's pretty subjective sometimes unless you really pay close attention to details of whats going on.

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 03:12 PM
I would truly hate it if Dunleavy started over George and Rush...assuming that George and Rush are ready to play

Theres all this talk about defence,...Dunleavy and defence shouldnt be in the same sentence

thank you Paul plays D and is agressive Rush at least plays D but Mikey doesnt play any D

CableKC
09-28-2010, 03:13 PM
So Jmac is Josh McRoberts
mg_indy should just stick to Josh, McRoberts, McBob or McBeard, when I first glance the tweet....I'm thinking TMac ( as in McGrady ). TMac and JMac are just too close in terms of spelling and recognition.

CableKC
09-28-2010, 03:22 PM
I would truly hate it if Dunleavy started over George and Rush...assuming that George and Rush are ready to play

Theres all this talk about defence,...Dunleavy and defence shouldnt be in the same sentence
PG may have the most upside of all of them....but even Bird said that PG isn't ready to contribute. I have no problem with starting BRush ahead of Dunleavy for the very reasons that you suggest....but if PG doesn't appear ready then he shouldn't be playing ahead of Dunleavy or even Posey in the lineup.

IMHO...unless PG is totally blowing away the competition in Practice ( a la AJ last season ) then I do not expect to see PG play any significant playing time ( unless 2 or 3 Wings goes down with injuries ). No rush though.....PG will get all the Playing time he needs next season once Dunleavy is off the roster.

McKeyFan
09-28-2010, 03:24 PM
thank you Paul plays D and is agressive Rush at least plays D but Mikey doesnt play any D

Dun is a smart defender and good team defender. Yes, he has slow lateral movement.

If the good Dun from a couple years back shows up (I'm very doubtful), he will be twice as good as Rush or the current Paul George.

OakMoses
09-28-2010, 03:40 PM
I can't find any more current stats, but in 05-06 Dunleavy drew 63 charges.

Kaufman
09-28-2010, 03:41 PM
just curious - who the hell is m grady??

Tom White
09-28-2010, 03:43 PM
i guess people dont want to win so you want to be the suns with no nash or Amare lol

Who in the world is talking about being like the Suns?

By the way, I see you are only 17? Shouldn't you be in school or something?

MagicRat
09-28-2010, 03:45 PM
Bruno was just on MPOS and said he should have highlights from the scrimmage up on Pacers.com in an hour or so......

Trophy
09-28-2010, 03:49 PM
I have no complaints.

Both guys are worthy of starting.

Eleazar
09-28-2010, 03:51 PM
i guess people dont want to win so you want to be the suns with no nash or Amare lol

How is playing your best PF not wanting to win?

90'sNBARocked
09-28-2010, 03:53 PM
Who in the world is talking about being like the Suns?

By the way, I see you are only 17? Shouldn't you be in school or something?

Zing!!! lol

SMosley21
09-28-2010, 03:55 PM
thank you Paul plays D and is agressive Rush at least plays D but Mikey doesnt play any D

Dunleavy is aggressive and has a better offensive game than George or Rush currently...

I Love P
09-28-2010, 03:57 PM
m grady is Michael Grady...our new annoying PA guy.

SMosley21
09-28-2010, 03:58 PM
I can't find any more current stats, but in 05-06 Dunleavy drew 63 charges.

I was just getting ready to point that out. When Dunleavy plays a full season, you won't find a player on our roster that draws more charges than him. It's not a steal or a blocked shot but that's still creating a turnover on the other team. Pretty solid defensive move if you ask me.

BPump33
09-28-2010, 03:59 PM
m grady is Michael Grady...our new annoying PA guy.


I don't find Grady annoying.

SMosley21
09-28-2010, 04:00 PM
m grady is Michael Grady...our new annoying PA guy.

What's annoying about Michael Grady? Are you confusing him with the hype man Scott?

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't find Grady annoying.

compared to who we had he is verry annoying grady says the wierdest stuff old skool is better than new school

Trophy
09-28-2010, 04:02 PM
Isn't Grady the new PA announcer too?

SMosley21
09-28-2010, 04:02 PM
compared to who we had he is verry annoying grady says the wierdest stuff old skool is better than new school

What weird stuff does he say? Seriously, I'm curious as to what you define as "weird". I've been a season ticket holder for 3 years now and "weird" or "annoying" aren't words I would use to describe Grady's performance as our PA guy (last year, or when he would occasionally fill in for Reb).

O'Bird
09-28-2010, 04:02 PM
I can't find any more current stats, but in 05-06 Dunleavy drew 63 charges.

Last year among rotation small forwards, Mike was second in the league, per minute.

And who was first, you ask? James Posey, annually one of the top performers in charges taken.

Mike Dunleavy is a plus team defender.

Most people don't really see what's going on on defense, and don't really even watch it beyond what happens on the ball; and all this despising Dunleavy's defense is only the latest evidence.

Dunning-Krueger effect?

___________

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 04:02 PM
Dunleavy is aggressive and has a better offensive game than George or Rush currently...
we will see about that i dont think so. But i will admit im a paul G homer so maybe im wrong but From the games ive seen i like Paul G better than duns on D and on the Off of end of the court.

SMosley21
09-28-2010, 04:04 PM
Isn't Grady the new PA announcer too?

Michael Grady is the PA guy for the team, the job Reb Porter used to do. There's some other young guy named Scott (forget his last name) that does the hype man stuff now, like going into the crowd with Rachel Bogle and doing the giveaways and stuff.

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 04:04 PM
What weird stuff does he say? Seriously, I'm curious as to what you define as "weird". I've been a season ticket holder for 3 years now and "weird" or "annoying" aren't words I would use to describe Grady's performance as our PA guy (last year, or when he would occasionally fill in for Reb).

like "Trifecta" and there are many more but I really liked the other guy maybe i will coming around to likeing him.

SMosley21
09-28-2010, 04:06 PM
we will see about that i dont think so. But i will admit im a paul G homer so maybe im wrong but From the games ive seen i like Paul G better than duns on D and on the Off of end of the court.

How are you a Paul George homer already without having seen anymore than youtube highlights of him? Now you're going to say that you've actually seen some of his Fresno State games right? Or the summer league games right? Right.... :rolleyes:

Trophy
09-28-2010, 04:07 PM
m grady is Michael Grady...our new annoying PA guy.

I think he does a good job. I like when he says "trifecta......!"

I'll miss Reb's famous quotes, but it was time for a change.

SMosley21
09-28-2010, 04:08 PM
like "Trifecta" and there are many more but I really liked the other guy maybe i will coming around to likeing him.

So you preferred "Home run" over that weird "trifecta" word? Makes sense since home run has anything to do with basketball or the concept of 3

MagicRat
09-28-2010, 04:11 PM
compared to who we had he is verry annoying grady says the wierdest stuff old skool is better than new school

I've never heard MG say anything as weird "Quisy for threesy"...........

I Love P
09-28-2010, 04:11 PM
He yells in the mic. It's so loud, it hurts my ears. Should have had open tryouts for that position. Could have found somebody much better IMO.

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 04:14 PM
He yells in the mic. It's so loud, it hurts my ears. Should have had open tryouts for that position. Could have found somebody much better IMO.

he does yell sometimes or he just has a real loud voice idk

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 04:16 PM
How are you a Paul George homer already without having seen anymore than youtube highlights of him? Now you're going to say that you've actually seen some of his Fresno State games right? Or the summer league games right? Right.... :rolleyes:

i bought the summer league package yes and ive seen him play about 10 games at fresno i have a bunch of sports packages and DVR

xBulletproof
09-28-2010, 04:17 PM
Don't mind McRoberts being called the starter at this point. Although I expect Hansbrough to take that away before the season starts if healthy.

And yes, Dunleavy should very well start over George or Rush at this point.

The O'Brien hate gets the best of people here sometimes without thinking.

xBulletproof
09-28-2010, 04:18 PM
i bought the summer league package yes and ive seen him play about 10 games at fresno i have a bunch of sports packages and DVR

If you did, then you saw how he over dribbled far too often. Didn't keep the ball moving and turned it over quite a bit. The kid has work to do.

BillS
09-28-2010, 04:22 PM
So you preferred "Home run" over that weird "trifecta" word? Makes sense since home run has anything to do with basketball or the concept of 3

Well, personally I don't care for "trifecta" since it refers to three separate events that come together for a single "score" (as in betting). Home run - besides being old ABA slang for the 3 - is a single extra-base hit that can score more than the normal number of "points" (runs).

But that's logic, and whether or not you like announcer-speak really has nothing to do with logic.

All that said, I think MG is a worthy successor to Reb.

BillS
09-28-2010, 04:23 PM
As I recall, Josh said in an interview either last season or the one before that he doesn't like "McBob" as a nickname and prefers "JMac". I think the other players call him JMac.

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 04:26 PM
If you did, then you saw how he over dribbled far too often. Didn't keep the ball moving and turned it over quite a bit. The kid has work to do.

that can be fixed he didnt have a very good team in fresno he didnt have a point guard and in summer league he played nervous the first couple games and then he started looking better then lance got hurt but what i took most out of summer league is he loves playing D and his mentality when his shot is not falling is a good one

SMosley21
09-28-2010, 04:33 PM
If you did, then you saw how he over dribbled far too often. Didn't keep the ball moving and turned it over quite a bit. The kid has work to do.

and the defense that everyone seems so enamored with is based off his stats, where he averaged over 2 steals per game, ignoring the fact that 8 of those steals came in 1 game. Also, it was summer league ball, and of all the arguments for why summer league doesn't really equal much, defensive stats should be the biggest one. Summer League ball is the sloppiest form of pro basketball you can find. Turnovers happen CONSTANTLY, so steals don't really hold as much weight as they would in a normal game.

Seems like this kid is just ignoring George's obvious deficiencies because he's the new "exciting" option. Pay no attention to the terrible shooting in those summer league games. Pay no attention to the nearly 5 turnovers per game, but give him all the credit in the world for the 2 steals per game.

Eindar
09-28-2010, 04:36 PM
I was just getting ready to point that out. When Dunleavy plays a full season, you won't find a player on our roster that draws more charges than him. It's not a steal or a blocked shot but that's still creating a turnover on the other team. Pretty solid defensive move if you ask me.


You're right. It's not a steal or a blocked shot. It's better than either of those, because it gets the other team in foul trouble as well as the aforementioned turnover. The only way the steal or block are better is if they directly lead to a layup in transition.

cdash
09-28-2010, 04:37 PM
I have no problem with McRoberts starting, especially if he has good chemistry with Roy. Dunleavy...meh, whatever. We can only hope he plays well enough that he develops some trade value so we can get something out of his expiring contract.

CableKC
09-28-2010, 04:38 PM
Last year among rotation small forwards, Mike was second in the league, per minute.

And who was first, you ask? James Posey, annually one of the top performers in charges taken.

Mike Dunleavy is a plus team defender.

Most people don't really see what's going on on defense, and don't really even watch it beyond what happens on the ball; and all this despising Dunleavy's defense is only the latest evidence.

Dunning-Krueger effect?

___________
Doesn't JO'B value Players that "take charges"?

Despite the slow lateral movement....I think the the parts that you mentioned above is one of the primary reasons why we will likely see a Granger/BRush/Dunleavy/Posey SG/SF rotation more often then one including PG/Lance.

xBulletproof
09-28-2010, 04:38 PM
pacers4ever - If Paul was nervous for Summer League and that's his excuse, then I don't want him starting in the NBA for a while. How nervous do you think he'll be for that?

SMosley, actually I like Paul's defense from summer league because he was interested. He's already got a guaranteed contract and summer league is a formality for him. He could have tanked it. He was pressuring guys and putting in the effort on that end. I was impressed by that more than the steals. I watched every minute of it.

Also, I probably will ignore his bad shooting in summer league. Everyone goes into slumps, and I don't believe he's a bad shooter regardless of that week's shooting percentage. Doesn't change that he has a lot of work to do, however.

vnzla81
09-28-2010, 05:34 PM
Once again I think this is going to be a long long season, if JOB makes Dunleavy the starting SG we can forget about defense, yes I know Dunleavy used to play some like three years ago(before the surgery) but he is not the same guy anymore, did anybody watch him playing last year? the guy is done, his shot is not going down, he is not as aggressive as he used too, now that Troy is out he is the slowest guy on the Pacers roster.

From the starting five of Collison,Mike, Granger,Mcbob and Roy who is going to play defense? please don't tell me that Danny is going to become Ron Artest or Bruce Bowen we already know what he is and he is not a good defender, Collison and Mcbob are decent defenders but again we are going to have two decent defenders playing with three guys that don't play much D.

Sookie
09-28-2010, 05:50 PM
Once again I think this is going to be a long long season, if JOB makes Dunleavy the starting SG we can forget about defense, yes I know Dunleavy used to play some like three years ago(before the surgery) but he is not the same guy anymore, did anybody watch him playing last year? the guy is done, his shot is not going down, he is not as aggressive as he used too, now that Troy is out he is the slowest guy on the Pacers roster.

From the starting five of Collison,Mike, Granger,Mcbob and Roy who is going to play defense? please don't tell me that Danny is going to become Ron Artest or Bruce Bowen we already know what he is and he is not a good defender, Collison and Mcbob are decent defenders but again we are going to have two decent defenders playing with three guys that don't play much D.

I think Collison has the potential to be a really good defender, in the "pesky" sense.

His issue is that he gets bumped around in PnR I think that's a typical tiny guard problem though.

vnzla81
09-28-2010, 05:54 PM
I think Collison has the potential to be a really good defender, in the "pesky" sense.

His issue is that he gets bumped around in PnR I think that's a typical tiny guard problem though.

I agree, but you need more than one or two good defenders in the starting five, we had Watson last year and they were still a bad defensive team.
I would not mind Posey or even DJ but nothing that I have seen from Dunleavy in this past three years tells me that he is a good defender.

daschysta
09-28-2010, 05:59 PM
If dunleavey is healthy again then he is a very good team defender, and he isn't as bad as you make him sound last year. You do realize that his career was in jeopardy, and he was recovering from surgery right? And that even less severe operations often take a full year to recover from?

Collison is also a solid defender and just subtracting murphy from the lineup helps.

All of that aside we actually were a completely average defensive team last year (15th best or 15th worst whichever one) It was our offense that was atrocious, something that dunleavey has proven to help with in the past.

Sometimes I think that you just purposely attempt to find the worst in everything, even when it isn't there. That's a bit beyond just ordinary pessimism.

Watson was nothing above average on defense last year.

McKeyFan
09-28-2010, 06:02 PM
I've never heard MG say anything as weird "Quisy for threesy"...........

Well, at least there was a silver lining to Quis's three point percentage.

Sookie
09-28-2010, 06:10 PM
I agree, but you need more than one or two good defenders in the starting five, we had Watson last year and they were still a bad defensive team.
I would not mind Posey or even DJ but nothing that I have seen from Dunleavy in this past three years tells me that he is a good defender.

Sure

But what are the other options.

Rush is unavailable for the first five games. Lance's defense is probably just as bad, and he might be unavailable. DJones' offense might be worse than Dun's defense. I get the feeling Posey is going to be more like the backup PF. Paul George is a rookie...forget about it. Then we have the 2 PGs option. AJ is a better defender, and throughout his career he has transitioned easily between SG and PG..but he's quite small and getting over a knee injury. And TJ...seriously, if JOB ever plays Darren and TJ together, I might cry.

So until Rush comes back, and proves himself, Dun's the best option. (Well, you could argue Paul George, but its not gonna happen)

I think, honestly, we just have to hope that Collison plays well defensively, Hibbert and Josh hold there own, and Danny steps it up.

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 06:26 PM
Sure

But what are the other options.

Rush is unavailable for the first five games. Lance's defense is probably just as bad, and he might be unavailable. DJones' offense might be worse than Dun's defense. I get the feeling Posey is going to be more like the backup PF. Paul George is a rookie...forget about it. Then we have the 2 PGs option. AJ is a better defender, and throughout his career he has transitioned easily between SG and PG..but he's quite small and getting over a knee injury. And TJ...seriously, if JOB ever plays Darren and TJ together, I might cry.

So until Rush comes back, and proves himself, Dun's the best option. (Well, you could argue Paul George, but its not gonna happen)

I think, honestly, we just have to hope that Collison plays well defensively, Hibbert and Josh hold there own, and Danny steps it up.
what does being a rookie have to do with it if he plays well we need him out there. His D looks good Mike could be a good role player for us. We need a good Defender at the 2 to take the pressure off Danny ethier Paul or Dahntay fits that bill(lance needs work on D).

Sookie
09-28-2010, 06:28 PM
what does being a rookie have to do with it if he plays well we need him out there. His D looks good Mike could be a good role player for us. We need a good Defender at the 2 to take the pressure off Danny ethier Paul or Dahntay fits that bill(lance needs work on D).

He's a rookie, he won't get the starting nod over any of the vets.

And if DJones didn't act like a black hole, it'd be fine. (Don't get me wrong, I like DJones, but that's true..)

vnzla81
09-28-2010, 06:35 PM
[QUOTE=daschysta;1065713]If dunleavey is healthy again then he is a very good team defender, and he isn't as bad as you make him sound last year. You do realize that his career was in jeopardy, and he was recovering from surgery right? And that even less severe operations often take a full year to recover from?

IF Dunleavy is healthy again a big IF, IF JO is healthy again, IF Foster is healthy again, IF Bender is healthy again, trust me I can keep going.


Collison is also a solid defender and just subtracting murphy from the lineup helps.

So Collisons is going to guard five people by himself?



All of that aside we actually were a completely average defensive team last year (15th best or 15th worst whichever one) It was our offense that was atrocious, something that dunleavey has proven to help with in the past

This means that we have some room to be worse in defense to bring some offense? (Dunleavy's offense was also a non factor last year)


Sometimes I think that you just purposely attempt to find the worst in everything, even when it isn't there. That's a bit beyond just ordinary pessimism.

Yep that is my job to be pessimistic, too bad I been right about the team in the last three years.


Watson was nothing above average on defense last year.

Watson was a decent defender, he looked good because he was playing with Troy Murphy, Danny, and TJ.

flox
09-28-2010, 07:07 PM
Dunleavy is only in the starting lineup because of Rush's suspension.

Also, I'll remind you of my favorite stat that we've all forgotten:

During Dunleavy's breakout season (his first under O'Brien), his offensive output far surpassed the negative impact he had one the defensive end. He had the highest +/- on the team that year, and by most statistical measures, had a better season than Granger in terms of both individual success and team impact.

Dun's also a good team defender who's excellent in rotations and has a knack for taking charges. He just doesn't have the lateral quickness to guard most 2's or the strength to guard most 3's.

One positive of Dun starting will be that it will put a lot more pressure on Danny to play good wing defense since he'll be guarding the other team's best wing.


Last year among rotation small forwards, Mike was second in the league, per minute.

And who was first, you ask? James Posey, annually one of the top performers in charges taken.

Mike Dunleavy is a plus team defender.

Most people don't really see what's going on on defense, and don't really even watch it beyond what happens on the ball; and all this despising Dunleavy's defense is only the latest evidence.

Dunning-Krueger effect?

___________


Thanks to the both of you for pointing out something that many many people tend to ignore or just forget.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't care about our defense anymore. Last year proved that if we try our hardest we can be an average defensive team.

Lets face it- this team isn't going to win on defense- and we shouldn't try to do that.

We have the size advantage. in the future George/Granger will be punishing other teams with their size. I'd rather play good offense and try to win that way. If that means Dun starts, and we have McBob space the floor and play as a Dunleavy light, i'm all for it. Our team isn't and will not be built defensively because that just isn't the way we are. All of our future starters (Collison, George, Granger, McBob, Hibbert) are better offensive players than defensive ones. Which means we only need an average or even below average defense to win.

I don't care about this team's defense. It simply shouldn't matter as long as it isn't in the bottom 25%.

pacer4ever
09-28-2010, 07:16 PM
Thanks to the both of you for pointing out something that many many people tend to ignore or just forget.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't care about our defense anymore. Last year proved that if we try our hardest we can be an average defensive team.

Lets face it- this team isn't going to win on defense- and we shouldn't try to do that.

We have the size advantage. in the future George/Granger will be punishing other teams with their size. I'd rather play good offense and try to win that way. If that means Dun starts, and we have McBob space the floor and play as a Dunleavy light, i'm all for it. Our team isn't and will not be built defensively because that just isn't the way we are. All of our future starters (Collison, George, Granger, McBob, Hibbert) are better offensive players than defensive ones. Which means we only need an average or even below average defense to win.

I don't care about this team's defense. It simply shouldn't matter as long as it isn't in the bottom 25%.

it was a long time ago lol he hasnt played healthy in awhile. I see him getting mins. to increase his trade value so a contender might give us young talent in return at the deadline.

Pacers#1Fan
09-28-2010, 09:53 PM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jEJPAuqo03J8eyCibbKEPep0H8SgD9IH63AO0?docId= D9IH63AO0

Pacers F Josh McRoberts could start

By CLIFF BRUNT (AP) 4 hours ago

INDIANAPOLIS Josh McRoberts already is living his dream of playing for his hometown Pacers.
Now, he could take it a step further and become the team's starting power forward.
McRoberts, who was born in Indianapolis and played at nearby Carmel High School, ran with the first unit during the Indiana Pacers' first practice on Tuesday. After the session, he spoke humbly about the position he finds himself in: With Troy Murphy traded to New Jersey, he's left to compete with Tyler Hansbrough, Solomon Jones, veteran Jeff Foster and rookie Magnum Rolle for the starting job.
"It doesn't matter if I'm the last guy on the bench or the first guy on the floor, I'm always going to feel blessed and lucky to have this opportunity," he said. "I know how lucky I am to be in my hometown and represent the Pacers."
The 23-year-old McRoberts was a McDonald's All-American in high school. He had a solid career at Duke before Portland took him in the second round of the 2007 draft. The Trail Blazers traded him after his rookie year, and the locals were excited to see him return.
He played sparingly for Indiana during the 2008-09 season, but he re-signed with the Pacers after they made him a restricted free agent. He went on to average 4.3 points and 3 rebounds per game this past season, with career highs of 18 points and 12 rebounds on April 4 against Houston.
The fans love him for his highlight-reel dunks and blocks, yet he has only has three career starts and has played in just 75 games the past two seasons. McRoberts hasn't played defense consistently, nor has he rebounded to coach Jim O'Brien's liking.
O'Brien said McRoberts has done the little things during the offseason to show he's ready to be a full-time player. For one, he played well in the Orlando Summer League. McRoberts embraced the opportunity to improve his skills.
"I think I still have to come in and earn my spot," he said. "I have to come in with a chip on my shoulder every day. I don't think I'll ever lose that."
McRoberts is in the last year of his contract and wants to earn an extension. O'Brien's expectations are high enough that he felt he needed to have a long talk with McRoberts about his role this upcoming season.
"I said, you have to be able to run the court on a regular basis, you have to rebound every shot, and when the ball is in your hands as a playmaker, you have to take care of the basketball, do positive things."
O'Brien continued.
"I said, 'What is missing?' He said: 'Shooting.' I said 'That's exactly right. You are not being evaluated by me or my staff on anything other than those three things.'"
O'Brien said he doesn't expect McRoberts to be the perimeter threat Murphy was. But, while Murphy was a 6-foot-11 forward who could open up the court with his 3-point shooting, McRoberts is faster and more versatile and hungry for a fairy-tale end to his hometown story.
"Indiana is where I want to play and where I want to be," he said. "I feel like I can be here for a long time."
Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Anthem
09-28-2010, 09:58 PM
"I said, you have to be able to run the court on a regular basis, you have to rebound every shot, and when the ball is in your hands as a playmaker, you have to take care of the basketball, do positive things."

O'Brien continued. "I said, 'What is missing?' He said: 'Shooting.' I said 'That's exactly right. You are not being evaluated by me or my staff on anything other than those three things.'"
That's a beautiful thing. Bird must have had a serious talk with him.... that's 100% the opposite of what he said last year.

Anthem
09-28-2010, 09:59 PM
As I recall, Josh said in an interview either last season or the one before that he doesn't like "McBob" as a nickname and prefers "JMac". I think the other players call him JMac.
Nope, it was just "Mac."

Dece
09-28-2010, 10:43 PM
People say things like that all the time. I'm saying those people are straight wrong.

There is nothing good about Dunleavy's defense. He is in no way a positive defensive impact on the floor. No team will ever benefit defensively because of him.

AlexAustin
09-29-2010, 01:59 AM
I hope McRoberts does get to start the open the season so we can put this obsession with him to bed once he gets owned playing against the first team!

imawhat
09-29-2010, 02:59 AM
I hope McRoberts does get to start the open the season so I can put this obsession with him to bed

Me too.

AlexAustin
09-29-2010, 04:10 AM
Me too.

I wish that I did have the same obsession with him, so I could figure out whats so special about a guy who has done next to nothing in games not in being played at 10 plus point differential.

xtacy
09-29-2010, 05:07 AM
i'm cool with josh starting but i hope mike only starts while rush is suspended. on the other hand what i really wanna see is paul at 2.

my choices at 2 are paul,rush,mike in that order.

Trader Joe
09-29-2010, 09:23 AM
TJ is a very good individual basketball player, probably better than Collison.

It's too bad for him that basketball is a team sport.

I don't know if that first statement is accurate...

count55
09-29-2010, 09:38 AM
I don't know if that first statement is accurate...

I'd substitute "possibly" for "probably."

ksuttonjr76
09-29-2010, 12:02 PM
Sure

But what are the other options.

Rush is unavailable for the first five games. Lance's defense is probably just as bad, and he might be unavailable. DJones' offense might be worse than Dun's defense. I get the feeling Posey is going to be more like the backup PF. Paul George is a rookie...forget about it. Then we have the 2 PGs option. AJ is a better defender, and throughout his career he has transitioned easily between SG and PG..but he's quite small and getting over a knee injury. And TJ...seriously, if JOB ever plays Darren and TJ together, I might cry.

So until Rush comes back, and proves himself, Dun's the best option. (Well, you could argue Paul George, but its not gonna happen)

I think, honestly, we just have to hope that Collison plays well defensively, Hibbert and Josh hold there own, and Danny steps it up.

Get ready to cry. Until Ford is traded, I wouldn't be surprised to see the two of them on the floor. Truth be told, Ford is really more of a SG in a PG body. A poor man's version of Allen Iverson.

BPump33
09-29-2010, 12:05 PM
Get ready to cry. Until Ford is traded, I wouldn't be surprised to see the two of them on the floor. Truth be told, Ford is really more of a SG in a PG body. A homeless man's version of Allen Iverson.

Fixed.

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 12:06 PM
I hope McRoberts does get to start the open the season so we can put this obsession with him to bed once he gets owned playing against the first team!

every 1 seems like they love his game why? What has he done to me he looks like the 10th man in a rotation.

Sookie
09-29-2010, 12:09 PM
Get ready to cry. Until Ford is traded, I wouldn't be surprised to see the two of them on the floor. Truth be told, Ford is really more of a SG in a PG body. A poor man's version of Allen Iverson.

Except they both need the ball in their hands to be anywhere near effective. They are such a huge mismatch together...

I think that's another problem I have with JOB, he doesn't seem to notice what players play well together and what ones don't..or he doesn't care. (Although, perhaps that has changed with Josh and Hibbert.)

And really, we can add Lance to that group too, so long as we're forcing him to play point. You can't have a backcourt where players have all the same attributes and faults..just in varying degrees of talent.

That being said, I fully expect to see it. :laugh:

McKeyFan
09-29-2010, 12:09 PM
every 1 seems like they love his game why? What has he done to me he looks like the 10th man in a rotation.

He's very athletic, something fairly lacking on this squad.

Also, he's very savvy with the ball, a pretty excellent handler and distributor for a near seven footer.

Beyond that, not so much. But there's always the "P" thing.

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 12:11 PM
He's very athletic, something fairly lacking on this squad.

Also, he's very savvy with the ball, a pretty excellent handler and distributor for a near seven footer.

Beyond that, not so much. But there's always the "P" thing.
i understand that he is a good athlete but that doesnt win basketball games. I dont think he is skilled enoght to start in this league. We need a ebounder and Dferder at the pf spot to help Roy out. I hope he can do that but i dont think he can.

Sookie
09-29-2010, 12:12 PM
I don't know if that first statement is accurate...

Yea, from what I've seen..he's got two things going for him.

He's got a fantastic midrange jumper, and he's quick. He's not a good passer. He's not a good shooter when he's farther from about the free throw line, he's a terrible decision maker, poor court vision, he's a lazy defender (although he could be good there)

Collison (and probably Lance and AJ minus the quickness for both) is better than Ford at all of the above except his midrange jumper.

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 12:15 PM
TJ is a very good individual basketball player, probably better than Collison.

It's too bad for him that basketball is a team sport.

wow no way TJ his a ball hog who turns the ball over i lived this last season. Also did TJ ever put up 18 and 9 in a 40 gm period?

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 12:17 PM
Yea, from what I've seen..he's got two things going for him.

He's got a fantastic midrange jumper, and he's quick. He's not a good passer. He's not a good shooter when he's farther from about the free throw line, he's a terrible decision maker, poor court vision, he's a lazy defender (although he could be good there)

Collison (and probably Lance and AJ minus the quickness for both) is better than Ford at all of the above except his midrange jumper.

ya u hit the nail on the head here collison's jumper is 2-3 times better than TJ's. Lance reminds me of TJ with size. He has better passing skills and a little better shooting the ball, and 100% better finishing with contact.

NuffSaid
09-29-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but after reading through articles on IndyStar.com today, I think our starting five has already been identified:

"During the scrimmage, Collison (PG) didn't shoot or try to do too much off the dribble. All he did was find teammates Danny Granger (SF), Roy Hibbert (C), Josh McRoberts (PF) and Mike Dunleavy (SG) during a convincing victory."

I can live with that. :dance:

NuffSaid
09-29-2010, 12:29 PM
I was just getting ready to point that out. When Dunleavy plays a full season, you won't find a player on our roster that draws more charges than him. It's not a steal or a blocked shot but that's still creating a turnover on the other team. Pretty solid defensive move if you ask me.

Ummmm...Jeff Foster might have something to say about that. :D

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 12:32 PM
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but after reading through articles on IndyStar.com today, I think our starting five has already been identified:

"During the scrimmage, Collison (PG) didn't shoot or try to do too much off the dribble. All he did was find teammates Danny Granger (SF), Roy Hibbert (C), Josh McRoberts (PF) and Mike Dunleavy (SG) during a convincing victory."

I can live with that. :dance:

thats not set in stone if it was there would be no point for training camp. If the other guys step up im sure the 2& 4 are still up for grabs.

Eleazar
09-29-2010, 01:04 PM
i understand that he is a good athlete but that doesnt win basketball games. I dont think he is skilled enoght to start in this league. We need a ebounder and Dferder at the pf spot to help Roy out. I hope he can do that but i dont think he can.

Neither do any of our other PF's, especially at this point in Fosters career. McRoberts may not be starting material, but he is the best PF on the team, and the team plays better when he is on the court. That is what wins games.

Actually when McRoberts got decent amount of minutes he was a pretty decent rebounder. No Jeff Foster, but better than adequate.

McKeyFan
09-29-2010, 03:01 PM
McRoberts deserves a chance.

He's not a star, but he could develop into a quality starter. Or not.

If he became starter material, that would be great. Otherwise, we will need to wait until Bird uses his $30 million in cap space to bring us a true answer at the 4.

The same could be said for Hansbrough. We may be able to get a sense before the All-Star break whether either of these guys are up for the task. If not, Bird needs to work some magic by the deadline or next summer.

dohman
09-29-2010, 03:15 PM
Probally one of our all time PF's of all time was only athletic. I personally do not think dale davis could play a lick of basketball. But he was the muscle of the team. Setting screens, playing defense, and just out working people. We do not need a HUGE scorer from that position. just hit the open shot when it comes your way and make the other team personally hate you.

There is no reason why josh cannot turn into that type of player.

BPump33
09-29-2010, 03:16 PM
Probally one of our all time PF's of all time was only athletic. I personally do not think dale davis could play a lick of basketball. But he was the muscle of the team. Setting screens, playing defense, and just out working people. We do not need a HUGE scorer from that position. just hit the open shot when it comes your way and make the other team personally hate you.

There is no reason why josh cannot turn into that type of player.


Banned?? :D

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 03:18 PM
Banned?? :D

YES lol dale was a great b baller.He is just what we need at the 4 a Dale Davis type of player. Dale wasnt that atheltic he worked hard and put out effort. Like a Marcus Camby(in his prime)

d_c
09-29-2010, 04:47 PM
Probally one of our all time PF's of all time was only athletic. I personally do not think dale davis could play a lick of basketball. But he was the muscle of the team. Setting screens, playing defense, and just out working people. We do not need a HUGE scorer from that position. just hit the open shot when it comes your way and make the other team personally hate you.

There is no reason why josh cannot turn into that type of player.

Dale Davis was a good basketball player. Playing defense is half of the game, and he was pretty good at it. To say otherwise is absurd. If it's that easy to play like Dale Davis, how come we haven't had more guys in the league who have had as much success and longevity like Davis and Charles Oakley? There are plenty of 6'10", strong, 240 lb guys who can't make any kind of impact in this league.

Playing defense is way more than just "wanting it more" or hustling. It's understanding team concepts, positioning and where to be and at what time. Guys who rely on nothing but hustle don't last long in this league. They physically break down if they have to play that all out style 100% of the time (unless they are nothing more than 10 minute a game role players).

McRoberts just isn't the same level of player as Dale Davis. He doesn't rebound or defend the interior like Davis did.

NuffSaid
09-29-2010, 05:05 PM
thats not set in stone if it was there would be no point for training camp. If the other guys step up im sure the 2& 4 are still up for grabs.
I was being speculative, but can anyone discount that Collison, Granger and Hibbert won't be starters? I think most would agree that atleast Hibbert and Granger are locks. Collison may backup Ford initially, but as time goes on and he learns JOB's system more and the training staff are sure he's 100% healthy, I can see Collison starting over Ford. Or he could be thrown out there from the start! We'll just have to wait and see...

The remaining questions are:

Will Granger start at the 3 or the 2?

Who will be our starting PF? Hansborough or McRoberts?

Who will emerge at the Pacers' 6th-Man? My guess is James Posey.

Peck
09-29-2010, 05:09 PM
YES lol dale was a great b baller.He is just what we need at the 4 a Dale Davis type of player. Dale wasnt that atheltic he worked hard and put out effort. Like a Marcus Camby(in his prime)

Did you just compare Dale Davis to Marcus Camby?:confused:

BRushWithDeath
09-29-2010, 05:18 PM
I hope McRoberts does get to start the open the season so we can put this obsession with him to bed once he gets owned playing against the first team!

Glad you're back.

d_c
09-29-2010, 06:19 PM
Did you just compare Dale Davis to Marcus Camby?:confused:

They're not the same type of players.

It is surprising to me, however, how Camby has actually been a much more effective player in his 30s than Dale was in his 30s. He's even got a DPOY to show for it during that time.

Dale's really slipped in his early 30s.

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 07:09 PM
Did you just compare Dale Davis to Marcus Camby?:confused:

i only got to see dale at the end of his career but to me they play hard and are workhorses. There stats are comparable

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisda01.html



http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cambyma01.html


Maybe im way off as i said only saw Dale at the end of his playing days.
Marcus camby was a better scorer in his early days.

Ozwalt72
09-29-2010, 07:15 PM
i only got to see dale at the end of his career but to me they play hard and are workhorses. There stats are comparable

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisda01.html



http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cambyma01.html


Maybe im way off as i said only saw Dale at the end of his playing days.
Marcus camby was a better scorer in his early days.

I'd say the biggest difference is Camby thrives on the weakside while Dale was the guy you'd want to man up with the other team's no. 1 post threat. And set picks hard enough to destroy entire civilizations.

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 07:21 PM
I'd say the biggest difference is Camby thrives on the weakside while Dale was the guy you'd want to man up with the other team's no. 1 post threat. And set picks hard enough to destroy entire civilizations.

Camby does get a lot of weak side blocks. So who would you compare him to?

BillS
09-29-2010, 07:43 PM
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but after reading through articles on IndyStar.com today, I think our starting five has already been identified:

"During the scrimmage, Collison (PG) didn't shoot or try to do too much off the dribble. All he did was find teammates Danny Granger (SF), Roy Hibbert (C), Josh McRoberts (PF) and Mike Dunleavy (SG) during a convincing victory."

I can live with that. :dance:

Not so much a comment on the starting 5 but on DC's activity - given that I think the hardest thing for a PG to learn is where to pass the ball to a teammate (where he likes it to be, when he's best able to see it, and so forth), this activity excites me no end. The execution of plays and PnR situations can wait, but working on ball delivery from minute one? Priceless.

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 07:51 PM
PG may have the most upside of all of them....but even Bird said that PG isn't ready to contribute. I have no problem with starting BRush ahead of Dunleavy for the very reasons that you suggest....but if PG doesn't appear ready then he shouldn't be playing ahead of Dunleavy or even Posey in the lineup.

IMHO...unless PG is totally blowing away the competition in Practice ( a la AJ last season ) then I do not expect to see PG play any significant playing time ( unless 2 or 3 Wings goes down with injuries ). No rush though.....PG will get all the Playing time he needs next season once Dunleavy is off the roster.

Bird said that PG could contribute right away on the Ofnse of side of the ball bird did say his D need to improve. i think his D looks really good so far

Eleazar
09-29-2010, 08:07 PM
Not so much a comment on the starting 5 but on DC's activity - given that I think the hardest thing for a PG to learn is where to pass the ball to a teammate (where he likes it to be, when he's best able to see it, and so forth), this activity excites me no end. The execution of plays and PnR situations can wait, but working on ball delivery from minute one? Priceless.

I completely agree. 50% of being a great passer in any sport is putting it where the other player wants it.

BillS
09-29-2010, 08:18 PM
Bird said that PG could contribute right away on the Ofnse of sid of the ball bird did say his D need to improve.

OK, I've tried but I can't read this in any fashion that comes to a single coherent meaning. There are just too many places to change spelling and punctuation, and each of them comes out different.

Can you PLEASE try to be readable? Why is the time the rest of us have to spend deciphering your thoughts so much less valuable than some extra time you could spend being understandable?

We're trying to treat you seriously, and you've done some good stuff, but meet us halfway here, please?

BornReady
09-29-2010, 08:23 PM
OK, I've tried but I can't read this in any fashion that comes to a single coherent meaning. There are just too many places to change spelling and punctuation, and each of them comes out different.

Can you PLEASE try to be readable? Why is the time the rest of us have to spend deciphering your thoughts so much less valuable than some extra time you could spend being understandable?

We're trying to treat you seriously, and you've done some good stuff, but meet us halfway here, please?

He's saying that Bird says that he can contribute on the offensive end, but cannot needs to work on his defense.

BRushWithDeath
09-29-2010, 09:03 PM
He's saying that Bird says that he can contribute on the offensive end, but cannot needs to work on his defense.

The translation could use some proofreading as well. But it's a start.

NapTonius Monk
09-29-2010, 09:09 PM
The translation could use some proofreading as well. But it's a start.I didn't find it that hard to read or interpret. PG's offense is ahead of his defense right now. That's not too surprising for a 1st year player.

McKeyFan
09-29-2010, 10:36 PM
good thots tho i think bills's post is on targt people shud rite in such a way to be mor considrte of the readers no?

pacer4ever
09-29-2010, 10:51 PM
good thots tho i think bills's post is on targt people shud rite in such a way to be mor considrte of the readers no?

i can read that fine if u cant read it just move on please and ty i was in a hurry thats why i didnt read over it. but u grown men are really childish do you have nothing better to do then to correct my posts?

Anthem
09-29-2010, 11:56 PM
i can read that fine if u cant read it just move on please and ty i was in a hurry thats why i didnt read over it. but u grown men are really childish do you have nothing better to do then to correct my posts?
You think they're picky? Wait until you meet Graham Mernatsi... that dude is a stickler.

Seriously, if you want to be treated like an adult, wouldn't you want your writing style to avoid giving you away?

Brad8888
09-30-2010, 01:05 AM
OK, I've tried but I can't read this in any fashion that comes to a single coherent meaning. There are just too many places to change spelling and punctuation, and each of them comes out different.

Can you PLEASE try to be readable? Why is the time the rest of us have to spend deciphering your thoughts so much less valuable than some extra time you could spend being understandable?

We're trying to treat you seriously, and you've done some good stuff, but meet us halfway here, please?


Bird said that Paul George could contribute right away on the Offensive side of the ball. Bird did say his Defense needs to improve. I think his Defense looks really good, so far.

Unfortunately, I believe I was able to read and interpret this for you, Bill.

It is tiresome, but some might say that this is a readily recognizable style that renders a certain persona for him on the board, just not one that will lead very many to read his posts much compared to the quality of the thoughts he expresses due to his unclear manner of expressing himself.

Apparently, using what I assume to be a hybridized texting Twitter-speak has become so second nature to him that he and those he communicates with on a consistent basis subconciously add in letters, words, and possibly phrases, and recognize completely different words out of the combinations of partial words ("ofnse of" = "offensive"), making his communication effective for him elsewhere, and leading to what most here consider to be bad habits at best, and a cry for the proper utilization of the King's English as Graham Mernatsi would demand, as Anthem stated elsewhere in this thread.

McRoberts and Dunleavy should start. That sentence makes this post relevant to this thread, and that is why I included it.

BillS
09-30-2010, 09:25 AM
i can read that fine if u cant read it just move on please and ty i was in a hurry thats why i didnt read over it. but u grown men are really childish do you have nothing better to do then to correct my posts?

So you are only posting so that you can read it and really don't care if anyone else does?

That's sort of like polishing your "self love" techniques and telling your partner to move on if it doesn't work for them.

You're missing a point - we WANT to read your posts, we WANT to treat your ideas seriously, but it seems as if you have no respect for the time it takes for others to decipher your meanings. You want us to respect you but you don't give a ****** about us.

That's not how this forum works.

NuffSaid
10-01-2010, 03:39 PM
Not so much a comment on the starting 5 but on DC's activity - given that I think the hardest thing for a PG to learn is where to pass the ball to a teammate (where he likes it to be, when he's best able to see it, and so forth), this activity excites me no end. The execution of plays and PnR situations can wait, but working on ball delivery from minute one? Priceless.
I agree with your assessment, however, I also think there's a strong case to be made the Collison, Granger, Dunleavy, Hibbert and McRoberts will start. Even our resident media guy, Mike Wells, seems to think so.


What a difference a day can make.
The Pacers three rookies – Paul George, Lance Stephenson and Magnum Rolle – looked overwhelmed on the first day of training camp Tuesday.

That wasn’t the case 24 hours later.

The Pacers were in the midst of a three-team scrimmage – gold, blue and white – when the media started to watch practice (Jim O’Brien does a good job of letting the media watch a good portion of practice).

The first team that scored stayed on the court.

The blue team consisted of the “starters.” Collison, Dunleavy, Granger, McRoberts and Hibbert.


Of course, if the 2nd-day of scrimige was any indicator, Wells may want to rethink his position on this:



The gold squad was Stephenson, George, Rolle, Posey and Foster.

Guess what team dominated the scrimmage?

Don’t even think of saying the starters.

The gold team gave the other two teams the business.
It got so bad at one point that O’Brien told the gold team to stop running the same play because the other two teams couldn’t stop them.

Ouch! :-o

Read entire article here (http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2010/09/29/good-bounce-back-day-for-the-rookies/).

Speed
10-01-2010, 03:46 PM
I'm good with those starters, like to see Hansbrough there eventually if he earns it. What I really liked was the youngster/old guys group with Lance, PG, Posey, Rolle, Foster group. Thats a tough match up for the Pacers Starters right down the line, imo, with the combo of defense, athleticism, and hustle in that group. Not against many starting units within the league, but I'd love to see that second unit for a stretch of games this year, just to see what we have.

BPump33
10-01-2010, 03:49 PM
From Michael Grady:

mg_indy 4 those still skeptical about Josh starting, JOB said after practice that if we had a game 2nite, JMac wouldn't only start- but play 36 min.

Speed
10-01-2010, 03:58 PM
From Michael Grady:

mg_indy 4 those still skeptical about Josh starting, JOB said after practice that if we had a game 2nite, JMac wouldn't only start- but play 36 min.


Good for Josh! He seems relavant now.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-01-2010, 07:12 PM
Dun-Dun may start ONLY becuz Brandon is suspended and JOB has always had a problem with developing his rookies. Paul George is already better than Dun-Dun if you play NBA basketball with your DEFENSE dictating your OFFENSE. The Pacer BS of going up and down the court and giving UP as much as you score if DUMB. JOB needs to put the best athletes on the court and let them PLAY at least 25 minutes per game. We need guys on the court who can cause MISMATCHES. Dun-Dun doesn't create any kind of mismatch. Paul George at SG, Lance Stephenson at PG, Magnum Rolle (with his quickness, speed down the court, and mid-range shooting prowess) at PF will ALL create mismatches. I like McBob at PF but you can tell that he wants to take the shot behind the 3pt line and he will now spot up there and shoot it when he gets the rock passed to him. McBob is best suited near the rim where his nasty attitude helps the team when he get rebounds, starts the break, and he runs the court to finish at the rim. If we continue to play this pansy-antsy game of 3pt shooting again this year, I'll puke with all the athletes we have now.

BlueNGold
10-01-2010, 08:58 PM
Good for Josh! He seems relavant now.

Agreed. He might even be relevant.

/s Graham...

pacer4ever
10-02-2010, 01:22 AM
Dun-Dun may start ONLY becuz Brandon is suspended and JOB has always had a problem with developing his rookies. Paul George is already better than Dun-Dun if you play NBA basketball with your DEFENSE dictating your OFFENSE. The Pacer BS of going up and down the court and giving UP as much as you score if DUMB. JOB needs to put the best athletes on the court and let them PLAY at least 25 minutes per game. We need guys on the court who can cause MISMATCHES. Dun-Dun doesn't create any kind of mismatch. Paul George at SG, Lance Stephenson at PG, Magnum Rolle (with his quickness, speed down the court, and mid-range shooting prowess) at PF will ALL create mismatches. I like McBob at PF but you can tell that he wants to take the shot behind the 3pt line and he will now spot up there and shoot it when he gets the rock passed to him. McBob is best suited near the rim where his nasty attitude helps the team when he get rebounds, starts the break, and he runs the court to finish at the rim. If we continue to play this pansy-antsy game of 3pt shooting again this year, I'll puke with all the athletes we have now.
i feel you i think paul is ready to start at the 2 now.I like magnum's game a lot . I feel lance good be a really good backup PG/Sg like a jamal crawford/tyrke evans (in time) 2 if JOB would just give in and give younger guys some mintues.

BlueNGold
10-02-2010, 10:04 AM
Where are you Graham!?!

I hope Paul George is the next great Pacer and immediately removes Dunleavy and Rush from consideration at SG....neither of who will ever be a great SG.

As for Lance, I still find it shocking that the Pacers drafted him after the last half decade of embarrassing incidents. All I can say is that the Pacers are likely to get more mud on their faces the longer he's on the roster.

TooBigNdaPaint
10-02-2010, 10:17 AM
Where are you Graham!?!

I hope Paul George is the next great Pacer and immediately removes Dunleavy and Rush from consideration at SG....neither of who will ever be a great SG.

As for Lance, I still find it shocking that the Pacers drafted him after the last half decade of embarrassing incidents. All I can say is that the Pacers are likely to get more mud on their faces the longer he's on the roster.

Lance is only 19yrs old (or may have turned 20yrs old in Sep). Yes, he's from New York's tough neighborhoods but he loves basketball and may have turned the corner for good. He's definitely a tough-nut, got burned in his love-life & over-reacted due to immaturity, learned that he can't let his anger control him, and has moved on. I'd rather mitigate future RISK with Lance by Clark Kellog's mentoring him instead of just cutting him becuz of potential negative press if he ever lets his anger get out of control again. I think everyone realizes that Lance isn't the 'sharpest knife' in the kitchen but he has many many years left on his basketball journey. Let's give him a second chance as FANS and see where the chips may fall. It's not like he's a mean looking thug, smokes dope every day after practice, and packs a pistol in his foot-locker. If he fails to show high character gain, he'll get traded, learn from his mistakes, and make some other team much much better like Ron Artest. I bet Miami would love to take Lance off our hands and get him on their roster of super-athletes. I can already visualize Lance physically abusing DC, TJ, or AJ while scoring at will with the Miami fans smirking at us for being dumb HICKS and crooning how slickster Pat Riley took advantage of the Pacer front office. We fans have to grow a spine and live in the REAL WORLD. Stuff happens every day. It's how you deal with it that makes you or breaks you. Thanks to Larry for having enough sense to deal with off-court issues with a rational plan of action (instead of trying to be 'politically correct').

Putnam
10-02-2010, 10:48 AM
We're trying to treat you seriously, and you've done some good stuff, but meet us halfway here, please?

Some of you are. I IGNORED him after his fourth post.

Kaufman
10-02-2010, 11:22 AM
As sad as I am to admit I too had to use the ignore option. The posts were too difficult to comprehend and I would spend longer trying to decipher them than 2 page posts from Seth. I tried to reach out to the young man/woman by email a few times but all for nothing as he seems to really not care.

Two thoughts. I do think there is some degree of learning impairment with the spelling errors and what not if you study the posts. There are some very fundamental errors he or she makes.

Additionally, as far as his/her use of texting shorthand, my guess is that he/she is posting from a handheld gadget and thus it is probably more second nature for the posts to come in shorthand form. This is clearly obvious as he/she is 17 and making posts during school hours when I would think internet access isn't as available? I also suspect that this person doesn't have access to a laptop or pc at home.

Just my thoughts.

vnzla81
10-02-2010, 11:35 AM
Some of you are. I IGNORED him after his fourth post.

I am sorry but I don't think is right to ignore people, sure some poster are annoying, hard to understand or you don't agree with them but you should be able to be a bigger man or woman.


I admire UB,Bill,Kstats and others on this one because it does not matter how annoying some posters here get (including myself :blush:) but they still give you their point of view and I respect that.

pacer4ever
10-02-2010, 02:41 PM
As sad as I am to admit I too had to use the ignore option. The posts were too difficult to comprehend and I would spend longer trying to decipher them than 2 page posts from Seth. I tried to reach out to the young man/woman by email a few times but all for nothing as he seems to really not care.

Two thoughts. I do think there is some degree of learning impairment with the spelling errors and what not if you study the posts. There are some very fundamental errors he or she makes.

Additionally, as far as his/her use of texting shorthand, my guess is that he/she is posting from a handheld gadget and thus it is probably more second nature for the posts to come in shorthand form. This is clearly obvious as he/she is 17 and making posts during school hours when I would think internet access isn't as available? I also suspect that this person doesn't have access to a laptop or pc at home.

Just my thoughts.

i have a labtop and a really nice PC i paid for both of them. But i use my blackberry the most. I go to college in the afternoon thats why im on a lot between 11:30 to 2:00. But im not on here to talk about how incorrect my spelling/grammer is it is mostly because i look down when i type and text. Which i will always do so deal with it or ignore me.

BRushWithDeath
10-02-2010, 06:47 PM
i have a labtop and a really nice PC i paid for both of them. But i use my blackberry the most. I go to college in the afternoon thats why im on a lot between 11:30 to 2:00. But im not on here to talk about how incorrect my spelling/grammer is it is mostly because i look down when i type and text. Which i will always do so deal with it or ignore me.

I've always wanted a labtop but I can't get my dog to sit still enough. You must be like a young Caesar Millan.

Pacers#1Fan
10-02-2010, 08:02 PM
Eastern Conference Most Intriguing Starting Line-Ups: Indiana Pacers

By Sebastian Ramirez (Contributor) on October 2, 2010

I really can't remember when was the last time the Pacers had a winning season. it's been a while. They are rebuilding now around their star Danny Granger, and what a rebuilding process it has been so far. I am not saying they have only made bad moves, but they haven't made too many good moves, let's put it that way.

It seems that this year they have many things to look forward to though. Granger came back with a lot of experience from his summer with Team USA with maybe an idea of what it feels like to win some games. I expect a big year for him, maybe not too much improvement on the numbers (they are good already), but an improvement in team leadership and responsibility. The Pacers have also added dynamic PG Darren Collison, who proved his value when CP3 got hurt last year. I mean I always had confidence in him, since his UCLA years, and lets not forget that he was the PG of that team sharing the back court with the PG sensation Russell Westbrook. Collison should have an amazing year taking over the Pacers and is a early candidate for most improved player.

The Pacers should also be excited for Roy Hibbert's development. He has been constantly improving, and that is one of the most important things you look in your prospects. Hibbert started slow but I am expecting him to put up at least 16 and 8 this coming year. He is also the only scoring option they have in the low post. Jeff Foster will be coming off the bench like always to give them 100 offensive boards a game like usual, and his crazy energy lift.

Those were the positive issues for the Pacers (Oh! and Dunleavy seems to be healthy for now, so he can be a wild card playing any position from 2 to 4). The bad news is that they don't have a reliable SG with both Brandon Rush (who seemed to struggle a lot to score and basically any aspect of the game last year) and the latest self proclaimed "Kobe Stopper" in Danthay Jones (who for a change had a decent year with limited minutes). My guess is that they will try to develop the beefy prospect from Kansas and hope he improves.

The bigger debate comes on the PF position. You have "I can't score to save my life" or "no post moves at all" McRoberts, who at least brings good athleticism and offensive boards and maybe tip back dunks to the equation, but at the same time as much Bball IQ as a armadillo in the middle of the ocean. He seems to be getting the nod for now. They also have the 20 season veteran who is too old to jump and do a swift move, or block a shot Tyler Hansbrough. He brings the old veteran hustle plays and the velocity and agility of a snail. Wait a minute research here is telling me even though Tyler has all the negative parts of being a 20 season veteran he is only coming up to his 2 year in the league. Oh well, good luck Pacers! The kid is a leader though, and might be one of the hardest nosed players in the league, and he can learn a lot from his more skilled twin Jeff Foster.

At the end I think it's good that they are aiming for a playoff spot. The east is much improved though, so it's a tough task they have ahead. I believe the X factor is Mike Dunleavy and if he can stay healthy, plus the improvement of Roy Hibbert.

Projected starting line up: PG Darren Collison SG Brandon Rush SF Danny Granger PF Josh McRoberts C Roy Hibbert Big minutes off the bench: TJ Ford, Mike Dunleavy, and maybe the rookie Paul George from Fresno State, oh and Danthay Jones to stop Kobe and to guard the Heat's trio by himself.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/480328-eastern-conference-most-intriguing-starting-line-ups-indiana-pacers

pacer4ever
10-02-2010, 08:16 PM
I've always wanted a labtop but I can't get my dog to sit still enough. You must be like a young Caesar Millan.

haha funny laptop*

O'Bird
10-03-2010, 12:24 AM
That's a beautiful thing. Bird must have had a serious talk with him.... that's 100% the opposite of what he said last year.

Got a link?

Actually it was Bird who said that Josh needed to be in the gym every day this summer shooting jumpers.

______________

O'Bird
10-03-2010, 12:38 AM
By Sebastian Ramirez (Contributor) on October 2, 2010

You have ... McRoberts, who at least brings good athleticism and offensive boards and maybe tip back dunks to the equation, but at the same time as much Bball IQ as a armadillo in the middle of the ocean.

What I don't get is how people who have no idea what they are talking about don't seem to realize how clueless they are - and the less they know, the more confident they seem to be in their pronouncements - or do they just assume that nobody else knows either, and they figure they can get by with bluff, bluster, and sarcasm?

As for animal analogies, I think that it's safe to say that there's no armadillo that has much Bball IQ, whether it's in the middle of the ocean or anywhere else - or for that matter posting on a hoops-related web site.

__________

Anthem
10-03-2010, 01:51 AM
Got a link?

Actually it was Bird who said that Josh needed to be in the gym every day this summer shooting jumpers.
Buwhuhuh? Are you actually going to take the position that Obie's current way of evaluating Josh (i.e., not based on his shooting) is similar to last year's approach?

As for Bird, I won't say he never told Josh to work on his jumper but it was definitely Obie who said that Josh needed to be putting up Reggie Miller/Larry Bird numbers of practiced 3-pointers.

Two can play your game, I guess. If your take is that Bird, and not Obie, thought Josh's jumper needed work, I'd like to see a link.

O'Bird
10-03-2010, 03:56 AM
Two can play your game, I guess...I'd like to see a link.

Okay, here you go: http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/originals/

It's Larry's year-end press conference from last spring. You'll have to navigate forward to page 10.

Here's the relevant comment, from about 13:44 -

"If I was Josh, I'd spend every day in the gym for hours working on my jump shot, same thing I told him.

"He's very skilled, he can do a lot of things, and he could be a major player for us going down the road.

"Uh, but, uh, the only thing that's hampering him right now is his shot and the only way you get that better is living in the gym, and I'm sure he'll do that."


As for Bird, I won't say he never told Josh to work on his jumper but it was definitely Obie who said that Josh needed to be putting up Reggie Miller/Larry Bird numbers of practiced 3-pointers.

Okay... well, it looks like it would be a good idea for him to do that, since he shot them pretty well. I take it that the link that you will provide will show that O'Brien was not going to let him on the court unless he was making three-pointers?


Buwhuhuh? Are you actually going to take the position that Obie's current way of evaluating Josh (i.e., not based on his shooting) is similar to last year's approach?

Why not? What he wants from Josh is more of the things that Josh was already doing well, plus better rebounding. Why would he not want a big who can make plays without turning it over? Why would he not want the proverbial big who can run the floor? Why would he not want better rebounding out of his rotation bigs? Those things are fundamental.

By the way, it looks as though Josh has worked on a post game. THAT would be a great addition.


If your take is that Bird, and not Obie, thought Josh's jumper needed work...

Hold on there, partner. First of all, it's inarguable that Josh needed to work on his jumper. He sucked eggs last year. And I did NOT say that Obie did not think Josh's jumper needed work. What coach has EVER not wanted his players to work on their shots?

On the other hand, YOU claimed that - regarding his benchmarks for playing time for Josh this season - "that's 100% the opposite of what he [O'Brien] said last year". And you also suggested that that about-face was due to Larry Bird dressing him down and telling him to change, I suppose, to real basketball instead of this run 'n' gun, no-D game that we hear about on Pacers Digest.

That's drama, not reality.

In fact, it's plain from the April press conference that Larry's view was actually more like what you say was O'Brien's view.

100% the opposite? What does that even mean? The opposite would be jog up the floor, don't mess your hair chasing rebounds, and whatever, turnovers are not going to change anything.

I'm still waiting for a link to demonstrate your claim, or at least something more real than vague, grandiose rhetoric.

___________

pacer4ever
10-03-2010, 01:36 PM
Got a link?

Actually it was Bird who said that Josh needed to be in the gym every day this summer shooting jumpers.

______________

ya he said that during SL he had an interview with NBA tv

BringJackBack
10-03-2010, 02:33 PM
Eastern Conference Most Intriguing Starting Line-Ups: Indiana Pacers

By Sebastian Ramirez (Contributor) on October 2, 2010

I really can't remember when was the last time the Pacers had a winning season. it's been a while. They are rebuilding now around their star Danny Granger, and what a rebuilding process it has been so far. I am not saying they have only made bad moves, but they haven't made too many good moves, let's put it that way.

It seems that this year they have many things to look forward to though. Granger came back with a lot of experience from his summer with Team USA with maybe an idea of what it feels like to win some games. I expect a big year for him, maybe not too much improvement on the numbers (they are good already), but an improvement in team leadership and responsibility. The Pacers have also added dynamic PG Darren Collison, who proved his value when CP3 got hurt last year. I mean I always had confidence in him, since his UCLA years, and lets not forget that he was the PG of that team sharing the back court with the PG sensation Russell Westbrook. Collison should have an amazing year taking over the Pacers and is a early candidate for most improved player.

The Pacers should also be excited for Roy Hibbert's development. He has been constantly improving, and that is one of the most important things you look in your prospects. Hibbert started slow but I am expecting him to put up at least 16 and 8 this coming year. He is also the only scoring option they have in the low post. Jeff Foster will be coming off the bench like always to give them 100 offensive boards a game like usual, and his crazy energy lift.

Those were the positive issues for the Pacers (Oh! and Dunleavy seems to be healthy for now, so he can be a wild card playing any position from 2 to 4). The bad news is that they don't have a reliable SG with both Brandon Rush (who seemed to struggle a lot to score and basically any aspect of the game last year) and the latest self proclaimed "Kobe Stopper" in Danthay Jones (who for a change had a decent year with limited minutes). My guess is that they will try to develop the beefy prospect from Kansas and hope he improves.

The bigger debate comes on the PF position. You have "I can't score to save my life" or "no post moves at all" McRoberts, who at least brings good athleticism and offensive boards and maybe tip back dunks to the equation, but at the same time as much Bball IQ as a armadillo in the middle of the ocean. He seems to be getting the nod for now. They also have the 20 season veteran who is too old to jump and do a swift move, or block a shot Tyler Hansbrough. He brings the old veteran hustle plays and the velocity and agility of a snail. Wait a minute research here is telling me even though Tyler has all the negative parts of being a 20 season veteran he is only coming up to his 2 year in the league. Oh well, good luck Pacers! The kid is a leader though, and might be one of the hardest nosed players in the league, and he can learn a lot from his more skilled twin Jeff Foster.

At the end I think it's good that they are aiming for a playoff spot. The east is much improved though, so it's a tough task they have ahead. I believe the X factor is Mike Dunleavy and if he can stay healthy, plus the improvement of Roy Hibbert.

Projected starting line up: PG Darren Collison SG Brandon Rush SF Danny Granger PF Josh McRoberts C Roy Hibbert Big minutes off the bench: TJ Ford, Mike Dunleavy, and maybe the rookie Paul George from Fresno State, oh and Danthay Jones to stop Kobe and to guard the Heat's trio by himself.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/480328-eastern-conference-most-intriguing-starting-line-ups-indiana-pacers

1. Brandon Rush is suspended. Then Ramirez says we need to develop him, as if he isn't a finished product yet.
2. Dahntay Jones won't play over either Posey or George.
3. Josh McRoberts is known for where to be at the right times, and that somehow impairs his IQ? I'd say that Josh has an above average IQ out of the NBA players.. He was just too raw for the NBA when he came out.
4. Tyler isn't even unathletic. He is a work horse. Unathletic would be Brian Scalabrine, Sean May, or Rasheed Wallace last year; guys that wouldn't put the work in.
5. Then he praises Jeff Foster after jonesing McRoberts and Hansbrough's offensive game.

After all the grammar mistakes in this article, on top of it being from bleacherreport, I think I've made my point. This is your typical person that can only see what is in front of him, on paper.

Kemo
10-03-2010, 03:40 PM
Being one of Pacer Digest's resident Josh McRoberts fans ..

I am ecstatic that he has worked his a$$ off to finally be able to earn himself consistant p/t ...
...... at the very least... a permanent spot in the rotation.. if not our starting PF ..

Thing is, seems alot of people on here expects every player on the team to be a consistant scoring threat ..

IMO we have more than enough good ... to very good players on the offensive end now to take the load off Danny ..

I expect Josh to average around 12 to 14 pts per game for this coming season .. Not all star numbers, but he doesn't need to ..

Josh will be good for 4 or 5 monsterous dunks or alley oops per game , and will probably garner alot of highlight reel material this season... especially with Collison dishing out the lobs and sweet dimes ..

Really the only thing I expect out of him as our starting 4 , is at least 12 pts ,and 8 to 10+ rebounds , and a block or 2 per game.. With Josh's energy/hustle out on the court , he is gonna greatly help this team... more-so than I think many people realize yet ...

I forsee some of the best team chemistry coming forth this year , that we have seen in a VERY long time from an Indiana Pacers team .

This group of guys we have assembled on our roster are gonna be tough as nails.. What we may lack in perceived "star-power" , I think we will more than make up in team chemistry , making us a team that NOBODY will look forward to playing against ..






.

imawhat
10-03-2010, 08:29 PM
Got a link?

You can reference obscure, once-used Bird quotes but selectively forget the multiple quotes from O'Brien on McRoberts working and focusing on shooting. Right.


http://www.indy.com/posts/pacers-mcroberts-makes-progress
Pacers McRoberts makes progress
October 19, 2009 by Mike Wells | Star staff


“I don’t think teams will be able to dare him to shoot,” O’Brien said. “His shot looks real good. We’re hoping he can continue to grow and extend the defense and be a guy that can keep defenses be honest, much the same way Murph does.”


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/418482-pacer-promise-an-indiana-pacers-summer-league-report
Pacer Promise? An Indiana Pacers' Summer League Report
By Scott Henry (Correspondent) on July 10, 2010


Head coach Jim O'Brien verified in an interview with NBA TV that McRoberts taking those shots was part of the game plan. Insiders also indicate that McRoberts was taking 500 three-point shots per day in workouts under coaches' orders.


http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2010/07/06/obrien_talks_ab/
O’Brien talks about Hansbrough
By Mike Wells, July 6, 2010


O’Brien said during his interview that they want McRoberts to continue taking 3′s because that’s what they like from their power forwards.
“We insist on him taking the 3,” O’Brien said to the NBA TV.
The Pacers have McBob shooting 500 3′s a day during workouts.


http://wolves.nba.com/pacers/news/web_100309.html
McRoberts making most of opportunity
By Conrad Brunner, March 9, 2010


Though Jim O'Brien caught some heat for declaring McRoberts' 15-point night against the Lakers as "irrelevant" after the game (you'll forgive the coach for struggling to find individual positives after the team's performance in a blowout loss), he has been impressed by the youngest player on the roster; though this is McRoberts' third NBA season, he's just 23 years old.

"I think he's doing some good things," said O'Brien. "He's giving us energy and he needs to continue to work on his shot. He runs the court well, he gets some offensive rebounds. For anybody that has not had a lot of playing time in the NBA at the big spot, defense takes a little bit of time to get going. That's an area, his ability to defend, that's very important to his development as a player."

vnzla81
10-03-2010, 08:37 PM
Damn I did not know all that info :eek:



“His shot looks real good. We’re hoping he can continue to grow and extend the defense and be a guy that can keep defenses be honest, much the same way Murph does.” :eek:

O'Bird
10-03-2010, 11:46 PM
You can reference obscure, once-used Bird quotes but selectively forget the multiple quotes from O'Brien on McRoberts working and focusing on shooting. Right.

It's from the end of the year press conference! For an NBA executive, it's the State of the Union address. That may be many things, but it is not obscure. Even if it were obscure, are you trying to claim that Bird didn't mean what he said?

Of course McRoberts should work on his jump shot - duh. If he can make threes he should work on those. Of course his coach should tell him what shots he should work on. That's all beside the point.

I haven't got any more time for this. To me it's kid stuff, not really getting into a good basketball discussion - why waste time with a bunch of made-up gossip?

I'm tired and horny and I'm going to bed. My life just got real busy, and giving up guilty pleasures isn't so hard if they no longer give pleasure. I expect I'll check in after the season, or who knows.

O'

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

xBulletproof
10-04-2010, 12:02 AM
I'm tired and horny and I'm going to bed.

TMI :laugh:

imawhat
10-04-2010, 12:40 AM
It's from the end of the year press conference! For an NBA executive, it's the State of the Union address. That may be many things, but it is not obscure. Even if it were obscure, are you trying to claim that Bird didn't mean what he said?

I think it's obscure because the general public isn't watching, reading, or listening to the press conference. Above average to die-hard fans watch these.

O'Brien's comments on McRoberts have been repeated ad naseum on his radio show, on the radio on other shows, in the Indianapolis Star, on blogs and elsewhere for the past two seasons.

You illustrate that you know a lot about O'Brien and his philosophies, so forgive me if I find it difficult to believe that this is the first you've heard about him wanting Josh to focus on shooting three pointers and playing similar to Troy Murphy.

I believe Bird, but he was also the first this summer to mention our power forwards would be playing closer to the basket.



...I haven't got any more time for this. To me it's kid stuff, not really getting into a good basketball discussion - why waste time with a bunch of made-up gossip?............

You asked for a link twice and got it. How do you suggest moving the discussion forward?

Anthem
10-04-2010, 12:45 AM
That's all beside the point.
The point is that you disagreed when I said that last year, Obie was evaluating Josh's play based on his shooting. The links clearly show that it was, in fact, the case.