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MillerTime
09-23-2010, 11:48 PM
Theres been a lot of talk with respect to the gap in the PF position once Murphy had been traded.

I know this season hasnt even started yet, but I want to talk about the 2011 Draft Class. Theres a kid named Perry Jones from Baylor. Hes a 6'11" PF and is an athletic beast. Keep an eye on this kid and the season progresses. I could see him going top 5 in next year's draft.

This is someone who the Pacers should target

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OadA5Wm6ISU

Psyren
09-23-2010, 11:53 PM
I imagine it will be someone in an upcoming draft.

Unless Larry once again somehow manages to again rip some other teams off with our expirings.

jeffg-body
09-24-2010, 12:10 AM
I have to agree that our next dominant 4 spot player will most likely come from the draft unless Bird can somehow land a marquee guy with our trading pieces.

ksuttonjr76
09-24-2010, 12:24 AM
He was just cleared for contact...

beast23
09-24-2010, 01:10 AM
Just looking at players that are likely to be on our roster following the coming season, I think we can say that we have three positions filled with strong players. C (Hibbert), PG (Collison) and SF (Granger). I don't think we can count anyone as a long-term solution at SG at this time, although we have an adequate backup (Rush).

At PF, Hansbrough may prove to be a long-term solution, but at this time that is far from being certain. Beyond that, we have McRoberts, who may or may not be here following this season and possibly Rolle as backups. But, we have no proven quality player to fill the position.

At SG, although we are not particularly strong at the position, we do have players on the roster that can man the position until either one of our players proves to be a long-term solution or we acquire a new player to be the solution.

We also need an adequate backup center. We also do not have much quality long-term depth in our front-court.

So, I don't think we can wait for next year's draft choice, if indeed we do select a PF, to develop. From my perspective, I believe it is extremely likely that the Pacers will trade for a veteran PF before the end of the coming season or during summer 2011, or will attempt to sign a quality free agent next summer to fill the PF position. And, I believe they will do this regardless of how well Hansbrough proves himself. Our depth in the front court is very poor and in a best case scenario the new player will be capable of playing both PF and C.

But to answer the question, since we have the cap space to do it, and our weakest link is presently PF, we will fill the the long-term need by acquiring a veteran. Specifically, I believe the 2011-2012 starter will be one of the following: Thompson (trade), Landry (FA), West (player option/FA) or Horton (FA).

O'Bird
09-24-2010, 02:26 AM
At PF, Hansbrough may prove to be a long-term solution, but at this time that is far from being certain. Beyond that, we have McRoberts, who may or may not be here following this season and possibly Rolle as backups. But, we have no proven quality player to fill the position.

A fair assessment.


At SG, although we are not particularly strong at the position, we do have players on the roster that can man the position until either one of our players proves to be a long-term solution or we acquire a new player to be the solution.

Again, a fair assessment.


We also need an adequate backup center. We also do not have much quality long-term depth in our front-court.

Backup center is an important spot to have covered. I note with interest that Josh McRoberts played a fair portion of his minutes there last year - in other words, he could back up both 4 and 5, and he's certainly got some intriguing skills as a backup big.


So, I don't think we can wait for next year's draft choice, if indeed we do select a PF, to develop. From my perspective, I believe it is extremely likely that the Pacers will trade for a veteran PF before the end of the coming season or during summer 2011, or will attempt to sign a quality free agent next summer to fill the PF position.

This is year three of rebuilding. Next summer the Pacers enter a new phase, and draft picks will become less important - of course it would always be nice to have a top-5 pick fall in your lap.

If Tyler Hansbrough does not become the player that they hope he can, it's much more likely that they'll look to trade for a 4 rather than drafting one to be the franchise PF.


And, I believe they will do this regardless of how well Hansbrough proves himself. Our depth in the front court is very poor and in a best case scenario the new player will be capable of playing both PF and C.

Meaning, I take it, that you don't think Tyler is good enough to be the long-term solution? But you say, "regardless of how well Hansbrough proves himself." Does that mean that you think his ceiling is too low?


But to answer the question, since we have the cap space to do it, and our weakest link is presently PF, we will fill the the long-term need by acquiring a veteran. Specifically, I believe the 2011-2012 starter will be one of the following: Thompson (trade), Landry (FA), West (player option/FA) or Horton (FA).

I suppose you mean Horford, who I think is surely the best of that bunch, and would fit your very sensible criterion of being able to play both PF and C. As for the others, David West is 30; Thompson surely has less upside than Hansbrough; and about Carl Landry, I wonder what the likelihood is of Larry Bird offering a fat contract to a 4 who's such a lousy rebounder - low, I should think.

__________

KennerLeaguer
09-24-2010, 03:23 AM
I suppose you mean Horford, who I think is surely the best of that bunch, and would fit your very sensible criterion of being able to play both PF and C. As for the others, David West is 30; Thompson surely has less upside than Hansbrough;


Wait? Jason Thompson? Thompson still has a lot to prove but its a bit much to state that Thompson has less upside than Hansbrough. Thompson is longer, younger, and a better all-around athlete. He's probabaly as good a rebounder and as good a passer and so far he is a far more efficient scorer. Heck, Thompson's numbers are still better than Hibbert's at this point. Its not out of the question that Hansbrough may end up being the better of the two but nothing in Tyler's first season suggests that that is absolutely the case. And certainly nothing we have yet seen from Tyler's limited minutes tells us conclusively that he has more upside than Thompson.

MLB007
09-24-2010, 09:03 AM
Meaning, I take it, that you don't think Tyler is good enough to be the long-term solution? But you say, "regardless of how well Hansbrough proves himself." Does that mean that you think his ceiling is too low?


__________


"Regardless of how well Hansbrough proves himself"
I think that stands on it's own quite clearly. :laugh:

Unclebuck
09-24-2010, 09:12 AM
Theres been a lot of talk with respect to the gap in the PF position once Murphy had been traded.



I think the gap would be there whether Troy is on the roster or not. Even if someone thought Troy was the answer for the position, he only had 1 year left on his contract. But it cracks me up when I read (mostly from national experts) about how the loss of Troy has created a void at power forward, as if there wasn't a gap there when Troy was here.


As far as whether Tyler is the answer - I don't know. First he has to stay healthy and then we have to see if he is the right complement to Roy.

Hitman02
09-24-2010, 09:25 AM
My pick- Al Horford or a lottery pick from the draft

However, I still would like Tyler to get a lot of minutes as a super 6th man. I think Tyler will be a great player for this team, and is definitely someone we need. Maybe it's me, but I have to wonder how our rebounding situation would go with Roy/Tyler. Having a player like Horford would help a lot, even if he will cost a lot.

MagicRat
09-24-2010, 09:44 AM
Knowing that Peck is firmly aboard the Hansbrough bandwagon means Tyler's at least a decent facsimile of D^2.

Put that along with:

Hibbert = Smits
Rush = McKey
Granger = Miller
Collison = Workman
Ford = Richardson
George = Kenny
Foster = Thompson
McRoberts/SJones/Magnum = AD
D. Jones = Mitchell
Price = Fleming
Posey = Scott



Get ready to shake up the world, 1994 style.......:woohoo:

O'Bird
09-24-2010, 10:12 AM
However, I still would like Tyler to get a lot of minutes as a super 6th man.

I think he'd make a great sixth man.


Having a player like Horford would help a lot, even if he will cost a lot.

Well, Larry has said that given the Indiana market they can only afford one max player. I think that Horford may be there by off-season 2011.

ZepZach
09-24-2010, 10:19 AM
I'm still hoping Bird can trade for Anthony Randolph. If we've offered the Knicks a first round pick recently, and now they need a first round pick to get Carmelo, I bet they'll take the pick now. It makes so much sense that it won't happen, but if that happened... :dance:

If not, I would like to see us pursue Carl Landry. Mostly because he is fun to watch and a Boilermaker :D

vnzla81
09-24-2010, 10:29 AM
Knowing that Peck is firmly aboard the Hansbrough bandwagon means Tyler's at least a decent facsimile of D^
Granger = Miller




Get ready to shake up the world, 1994 style.......:woohoo:

I'm sorry but I don't think I would
Ever put Reggie and Danny in the same sentence, he first needs to win some games and make it to the playoffs. :twocents:

dohman
09-24-2010, 10:30 AM
I really see bird fighting for horford this season. I do not have any information to back this up. I just think he wants a strong hard nosed pf. Him and Hansbrough together for the next 5 years would be a good combo for starter and bench.

We need to spend a little money this summer and get a athletic guy that can run with DC.

dohman
09-24-2010, 10:32 AM
I'm sorry but I don't think I would
Ever put Reggie and Danny in the same sentence, he first needs to win some games and make it to the playoffs. :twocents:

Granger will never be the post season player miller was and miller was not close to the regular season player granger is.

Once granger has some talnet around him this year I think a fire gets lit under his ***.

IndyPacer
09-24-2010, 10:45 AM
The draft or trading expirings/ picks sounds like a more realistic option than signing Horford as a free agent. The fact that he'll be a RESTRICTED free agent totally cans Horford as a realistic option. He'll either be extremely pricey or his team will match the offer. If we landed him by overpaying, Indiana would have significant problems re-signing some of our other key players in the future, especially given the fact that they would have just given Horford a huge payday a year or two prior. I think Horford isn't an option given these circumstances.

Speed
09-24-2010, 11:00 AM
I wonder if the Pacers current franchise player, will be this years franchise PF in Danny Granger.

naptownmenace
09-24-2010, 11:12 AM
I wonder if the Pacers current franchise player, will be this years franchise PF in Danny Granger.

Danny is our new "Stretch-4". That's why Walter McCarty was hired as an assistant - to teach "Stretch-4 101" to Danny.

Seriously though, Danny is as good a PF, if not better, than Rashard Lewis is. Shawn Marion was also at his best when he started at PF. It could work and Danny's rebounds and blocks should improve and he'll probably end up with less fouls if he's guarding 4s instead of quick 2s and 3s.

NuffSaid
09-24-2010, 11:31 AM
I think the Pacers already have 3 strong candidates for their PF for the future: Hansborough, McRoberts and Rolle.

Hansborough needs to have this opportunity to prove himself. I'm glad he was finally cleared to play again. He's a rugid individual who will get his points from straight-up hustling for 'em! Folks knock him for not being a 20ppg scorer from the field, i.e., 10-10 FG, but not even Kobe or MJ were that perfect!! The way I see it if he's hustling for loose balls, getting his defender in foul trouble and scoring from the field and from the line, I really don't care how many points he scores. I worry more about how effective he is while on the court and part of that effectiveness is getting those loose balls, getting those rebounds and getting your defender in foul trouble and off the court before he does the same to you! In that regard, I love the way this kid plays ball!!! He never gives up on a play - NEVER!!

McRoberts plays much the same way but he's alot more athletic than Hansborough. The interesting thing about McRoberts is the longer he's on the floor the more productive he becomes. My only knock on him is he tends to play out of control alot, but I think that has alot to do with him kinda being on "fast-forward" (adrinaline rush) and not getting a good feel for the game because it hasn't become quite fluid for him yet. In other words, in many respects he hasn't settled into the game just yet. But he'll get there the more routine playing time he gets.

I've only seen Magnum Rolle play over the summer. So, I'm still trying to guage he strengths and weaknesses, but so far I like how he's able to read the defense and reacts to it. He'll make a very good post-defender who can also score the ball from mid-range fairly well. Personally, I think the Pacers would be foolish not to find a way to sign this kid. I think he'll make a very good addition to the team.

So, there you have it...the Pacers' 3 primary candidates for PF of the Future. Odd man out is clearly Soloman Jones here. He didn't show me much last year, but I'd give him through training camp to show he deserves to remain along with Rolle to show he deserves to be signed. My money is on Rolle, but may the best man win.

imawhat
09-24-2010, 11:51 AM
But it cracks me up when I read (mostly from national experts) about how the loss of Troy has created a void at power forward, as if there wasn't a gap there when Roy was here.

Me too. I understand the comments; most people who don't watch the game very closely can look at his numbers and make that statement. His numbers have been great for about three years.

I'm convinced we'll miss Troy's shooting and consistency but I don't think it comes close to the defense/effort/offensive movement we'll gain by not having him out there. We're a better team without him, and it will show.

sportfireman
09-24-2010, 11:54 AM
I hope we dont have a shot at a top 5 pick. I'm hoping we do well. Like make the playoffs and make some noise with our young guys. Thats just me.

Justin Tyme
09-24-2010, 12:15 PM
Whoever it will be isn't currently on the Pacers roster. I don't see it as someone the Pacers draft next year or the year after either. IMO, that player comes from someone already in the league from a trade and not gotten thru FA.

Justin Tyme
09-24-2010, 12:28 PM
As far as drafting a PF next draft, that makes Granger 28 yo, and then 2-3 years to get the PF to get his game together puts Granger 30-31 age category with his best years wasted while waiting on the next franchise PF game to come together. I don't see Bird waiting and drafting the "PF of the future." Due to the time frame of getting a franchise PF in Grangers next 2-4 years of productivity, I feel a franchise PF will have to come from a trade.

MyFavMartin
09-24-2010, 12:34 PM
I'm happy to have Tyler on the team, but I'm not sold on him being a franchise PF yet... He needs to go through at least one season healthy first where he can demonstrate taking and giving out contact.

Horford is a RFA and I imagine any offer he gets will be matched by Atlanta and I'm not sure they'd be enticed by a S&T... at least not for what we'd be willing to include... I think they'd want Hibbert to pair with Josh Smith, who they might be more willing to depart with.

That being said, I'm not sold on Landry being a franchise PF, but I do think he'd be a very good starter for us... Can't be sure if his best will be better than Tyler's... I think Carl has more low post offense.

I'm not sure Thompson or McGee would be available. I'm suspecting we'll be targeting a PF in the next draft, but we don't always draft for need.

dohman
09-24-2010, 12:40 PM
Lets hope paul george is just a freakin stud and danny is forced to play pf

pacer4ever
09-24-2010, 12:45 PM
Lets hope paul george is just a freakin stud and danny is forced to play pf

he will be really good this year, and next year that will happen or PG will play the 2 which is more likley

pacer4ever
09-24-2010, 12:47 PM
Granger will never be the post season player miller was and miller was not close to the regular season player granger is.

Once granger has some talnet around him this year I think a fire gets lit under his ***.

ya Danny is way better regular season player but Reggie was clutch

Peck
09-24-2010, 12:56 PM
What do we mean when we say franchise power forward btw?

cdash
09-24-2010, 03:28 PM
I think the Pacers already have 3 strong candidates for their PF for the future: Hansborough, McRoberts and Rolle.


:-o

beast23
09-24-2010, 05:01 PM
Backup center is an important spot to have covered. I note with interest that Josh McRoberts played a fair portion of his minutes there last year - in other words, he could back up both 4 and 5, and he's certainly got some intriguing skills as a backup big.

I think backup C is very important as well. I believe that McRoberts is able to cover 2 positions, but is a very significant drop-off from a starting quality player. I would hope to have a better performing player at the position. This is a pivotal year for McRoberts, he will either improve and grow into a 6-7-8-9 player, or he will be replaced on the roster by someone who is able to do so. IMO, despite some glimpses of the upside of McRoberts, I don't think he will get the chance or make the most of his opportunities to exhibit those skills on a consistent basis.



Meaning, I take it, that you don't think Tyler is good enough to be the long-term solution? But you say, "regardless of how well Hansbrough proves himself." Does that mean that you think his ceiling is too low?

I also believe that Hansbrough has very good upside. But even if he is well on his way to achieving our expectations by the end of the season, we are still thin in the front court. As an example of what I want, I would want a player offering similar capable skills that Antonio Davis did in backing up Rik and Dale. Antonio was a player that did not have the skills at PF that Dale did nor at center like Rik did, but had good enough and somewhat different skills that enabled him to fill in and even start at either position without missing a beat. That's what I want from our backup big. In other words, I want three starting quality players in the front court. I don't believe McRoberts nor Rolle are likely to achieve that expectation and I am not a firm believer at playing Danny full-time at PF.


I suppose you mean Horford, who I think is surely the best of that bunch, and would fit your very sensible criterion of being able to play both PF and C. As for the others, David West is 30; Thompson surely has less upside than Hansbrough; and about Carl Landry, I wonder what the likelihood is of Larry Bird offering a fat contract to a 4 who's such a lousy rebounder - low, I should think.
Yes... it was after 1AM when I posted.... I did mean Horford. Sorry about that. As for the upside commment, I really can't argue Thompson's versus Hansbrough's upside one way or another. If Tyler stays healthy, I think he has very good upside. I don't believe there is any reason whatsoever to believe that Tyler has better upside than Thompson. Thompson is more athletic and has so far proven more than Tyler, but Tyler seems to have that "mean streak x-factor" about him. What I can say is that if Tyler did attain his maximum upside, I would still be very pleased to have both Thompson and Hansbrough on our roster... and it probably wouldn't matter to mich which one started. That would give us two very capable PFs that would both be capable of a double-double and tough defense every game out. We could do a lot worse than a front court of Hibbert, Hansbrough and Thompson... three quality players all on their rookie contracts.

beast23
09-24-2010, 05:09 PM
What do we mean when we say franchise power forward btw?The word "franchise" does seem to cause confusion, doesn't it?

My assumption was that "franchise" must have been intended to mean "starting quality". And by "starting quality" I would say it doesn't mean that the player can start for a team just because you have no one else to throw into the position; it means that the player could likely start for several teams throughout the league.

In other words, a bonafide starting PF.

But then, that's just my two cents, not the author's.

MagicRat
09-24-2010, 08:45 PM
I'm sorry but I don't think I would
Ever put Reggie and Danny in the same sentence, he first needs to win some games and make it to the playoffs. :twocents:

Going into the 93-94 season Reggie was 28 years old, had been an all star once and had won 0 playoff series and 3 playoff games. It may not quite be the stretch you think it is...........:twocents:

vnzla81
09-24-2010, 10:57 PM
Going into the 93-94 season Reggie was 28 years old, had been an all star once and had won 0 playoff series and 3 playoff games. It may not quite be the stretch you think it is...........:twocents:

Reggie is a hall of famer, one of the best player to ever play the game, one of the most feared players in his time, Danny is not even close to that not matter how much you want to compare him to Reggie :twocents:

xBulletproof
09-24-2010, 11:12 PM
Reggie is a hall of famer, one of the best player to ever play the game, one of the most feared players in his time, Danny is not even close to that not matter how much you want to compare him to Reggie :twocents:

Congratulations on being able to repeat yourself. Without even acknowledging or acting like you understood the point of the post you just quoted. Might as well have quoted the post of yours that MagicRat quoted, as your response to what was said.

vnzla81
09-24-2010, 11:30 PM
Congratulations on being able to repeat yourself. Without even acknowledging or acting like you understood the point of the post you just quoted. Might as well have quoted the post of yours that MagicRat quoted, as your response to what was said.


Ok so Danny is the next Reggie Miller I got your point end of the discussion.

Hicks
09-25-2010, 12:09 AM
Ok so Danny is the next Reggie Miller I got your point end of the discussion.

It's not about absolutes. At the time, Reggie hadn't done hardly any of the things we remember him for today, and at the time, I don't think many Pacers fans expected what was to come.

For all we know, Danny may have some pleasant surprises in store for us once this team is a playoff time year in and year out.

Peck
09-25-2010, 12:33 AM
Reggie is a hall of famer, one of the best player to ever play the game, one of the most feared players in his time, Danny is not even close to that not matter how much you want to compare him to Reggie :twocents:

vnzla you know I normally have your back on discussions but in this case I have to implore you to wait and see what happens. Maybe Danny never gets to the playoffs or maybe his career peters out here in a couple of years and he never touches Reggie.

But as a person who saw almost every single game that both of these guys have played in I will say that I think that Danny is as far along if not farther along at this stage of his career than what Reggie was, at least in the regular season.

But there can be no doubt regular season Reggie & playoff Reggie were not one and the same. We just don't know about Danny.

I'll make you a deal let's hope that Danny gets a chance to prove it one way or the other because that means the team has to make some deep playoff runs, to which we are all winners if that happens.

vnzla81
09-25-2010, 12:57 AM
vnzla you know I normally have your back on discussions but in this case I have to implore you to wait and see what happens. Maybe Danny never gets to the playoffs or maybe his career peters out here in a couple of years and he never touches Reggie.

But as a person who saw almost every single game that both of these guys have played in I will say that I think that Danny is as far along if not farther along at this stage of his career than what Reggie was, at least in the regular season.

But there can be no doubt regular season Reggie & playoff Reggie were not one and the same. We just don't know about Danny.

I'll make you a deal let's hope that Danny gets a chance to prove it one way or the other because that means the team has to make some deep playoff runs, to which we are all winners if that happens.

Trust me Peck I understand your point, the thing to me is when Reggie was in his prime guys like MJ, Barkley and others would talk about fearing Reggie, I bet if you ask anybody in the NBA if the fear Danny They would laugh, again I hope you are right and Danny becomes this great player but in my opinion I don't see this happening.

King Phoenix
09-25-2010, 01:06 AM
Ok this is my opinion on what the pacers should do about the pf position. Some of it might sound like fantasy which some is but if u think about it it all will make perfect sense. I'll go through a couple of scenarios if I were morway or bird!

First I would call up old walsh and see if the Randolph deal still stands jus for the fact that even tho I wouldn't want to it would obviously put an end to the possibility and see if I can make a lil magic happen

Two try to do everything I can to get Jason thompson heck I'll even throw in rush with Solomon if it'll work because when either lance or pg get deceloped rush is gonna be nothing more than a pine paper weight maybe rush and I pick since when all these players come off contract they want big bucks and if lance and Paul and hibbert and Thompson want money...watch out

third try everyway I can to get a trade before the season start if not possible probably cut solo and sign magnum

now here's where the fun begins if I get Thompson who I really want and well still have money horford is not out of the question but somewaht unnecessary so what do I do in fa...SIGN GREG ODEN! that's right he's a native boost to ticket sales and all of a sudden we become the la lakers of the east! We can play them side by side or let them figh it out which develops both or switch them out so their bodies don't break down! If oden goes down so wut I got Thompson baby! Then if hibbert goes down I got thompson granger hansbrough mcbob and rolle do something! Then this gives me a chance to get a need with our pick...even tho I kno the draft is first it's flawless!

MagicRat
09-25-2010, 01:43 AM
The whole thing was predicated on Tyler being franchise power forward Dale Davis. To me that's a bigger stretch than Danny being Reggie.

Anyway, mainly it was just an old man recalling those thrilling days of yesteryear when the franchise power forward was joined by:

an offensively gifted, slow-footed seven footer
an offensively reluctant/defensively talented wing man who rarely, if ever, showed emotion on the court
an all-star wing with a penchant for the three ball
a scrappy new floor general
a point guard, obtained in a trade for a popular forward, who fell out of favor and was relegated to a suit
a high flying young wing man
a creaky pf/c
a young athletic pf
a combative, defensive minded backup wing
a cagey backup point guard
and a new wing with prior championship experience

and they all banded together to make an improbable run to the ECF's and in the process turned the entire city into the equivalent of Area 55........:scream:

<object height="385" width="480">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0kPi54gLNfE?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="480"></object>

Peck
09-25-2010, 04:18 AM
Man I don't miss Jerry Baker.

Other than that though I believe this is the first time I've seen that clip, I was at the game and didn't tape it.

Loud is not even a big enough word to describe MSA, my head rung for three days after that.

imawhat
09-25-2010, 11:51 AM
Man I don't miss Jerry Baker.

Other than that though I believe this is the first time I've seen that clip, I was at the game and didn't tape it.

Loud is not even a big enough word to describe MSA, my head rung for three days after that.

I watched game 6 from home, but game 4 of that series is easily the loudest game I've ever been to. I was screaming at the top of my lungs and couldn't hear myself. The electricity in that place was amazing. MR, any chance you have game 4 on tape?

beast23
09-25-2010, 11:57 AM
Man I don't miss Jerry Baker.

Other than that though I believe this is the first time I've seen that clip, I was at the game and didn't tape it.

Loud is not even a big enough word to describe MSA, my head rung for three days after that.I remember that game as well. I really miss a few things about those old MSA games. The crowd always seemed louder, the noise of race cars during opponents possessions, Long Tall Glasses. McKey playing defense, Reggie draining 3s, a healthy, unstoppable Smits. And jeez, do I miss players like Byron and Woodie. That was a T-E-A-M. No sideshows or distractions... total focus on only one thing... being as good as they were capable of being.

For that game, I sat behind the Pacers bench, a few seats down from Marita. That clip even brings back happier times betwee Reggie and Marita, when Marita took more of an interest in supporting Reggie than in spending time in New York.