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View Full Version : Chad Ford's take on the Pacer's offseason improvements... from ESPN Insider



dadscout
09-14-2010, 12:54 PM
3. Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind)



Key additions: Darren Collison (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3973) (trade), James Posey (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=671) (trade), Paul George (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4251) (draft), Lance Stephenson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4244) (draft)


Key subtractions: Troy Murphy


Larry Bird and David Morway may have pulled off the trade of the summer in August. Desperately in need of a point guard and some fresh blood, they were able to grab Collison in a four-way trade that cost them just Murphy.


Collison is the point guard the Pacers have been longing for … forever. As a rookie starter for the Hornets during the second half of last season after Chris Paul (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2779) went down with an injury, Collison averaged an impressive 18.8 ppg and 9 apg, while shooting 48 percent from the field and 43 percent from 3-point range. Those are rookie of the year numbers. Pair him with Danny Granger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2760) and an emerging Roy Hibbert (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3436) and the Pacers finally have a young core to build around.


The Pacers also made some noise in the draft. George has Tracy McGrady (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532)-type talent. Whether he ever lives up to his abilities is still up for debate -- but at the 10th pick in the draft, he was worth the gamble.


The real steal, however, could be Stephenson. The second-round pick wowed scouts in the Orlando summer league with his play and drew a few comparisons to last season's rookie of the year, Tyreke Evans (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3983). A domestic assault charge for Stephenson and a five-game drug suspension for Brandon Rush (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3457) put a bit of a damper on the summer but shouldn't set the team back too much.


The Pacers now look as if they have a legit shot at making the playoffs this season and should be $20 million under the cap next summer. After a long dark spell, things are finally looking up in Indy.


Grade: A-

Not a bad review, we're 3 behind Miami and Washington. Was going to post the whole article but it's quite long...

Link: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=SummerGrades-East-100914

90'sNBARocked
09-14-2010, 12:58 PM
3. Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind)



Key additions: Darren Collison (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3973) (trade), James Posey (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=671) (trade), Paul George (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4251) (draft), Lance Stephenson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4244) (draft)


Key subtractions: Troy Murphy


Larry Bird and David Morway may have pulled off the trade of the summer in August. Desperately in need of a point guard and some fresh blood, they were able to grab Collison in a four-way trade that cost them just Murphy.


Collison is the point guard the Pacers have been longing for forever. As a rookie starter for the Hornets during the second half of last season after Chris Paul (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2779) went down with an injury, Collison averaged an impressive 18.8 ppg and 9 apg, while shooting 48 percent from the field and 43 percent from 3-point range. Those are rookie of the year numbers. Pair him with Danny Granger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2760) and an emerging Roy Hibbert (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3436) and the Pacers finally have a young core to build around.


The Pacers also made some noise in the draft. George has Tracy McGrady (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532)-type talent. Whether he ever lives up to his abilities is still up for debate -- but at the 10th pick in the draft, he was worth the gamble.


The real steal, however, could be Stephenson. The second-round pick wowed scouts in the Orlando summer league with his play and drew a few comparisons to last season's rookie of the year, Tyreke Evans (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3983). A domestic assault charge for Stephenson and a five-game drug suspension for Brandon Rush (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3457) put a bit of a damper on the summer but shouldn't set the team back too much.


The Pacers now look as if they have a legit shot at making the playoffs this season and should be $20 million under the cap next summer. After a long dark spell, things are finally looking up in Indy.


Grade: A-

Not a bad review, we're 3 behind Miami and Washington. Was going to post the whole article but it's quite long...

Link: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=SummerGrades-East-100914

Chad Ford has always been pretty kind to the Pacers (in reviews)

I like how they say George has "McGrady like talent" but then say that Lance wsa the steal of the draft and "wowed" everybody at the SL

Hicks
09-14-2010, 01:05 PM
Other than Chad's apparent ignorance with regards to the severity of Lance's charges (unless he knows something we don't), I agree.

Unclebuck
09-14-2010, 01:09 PM
it is interesting to read a national perspective on the Lance and Rush situations

Pacers#1Fan
09-14-2010, 01:29 PM
With Lance being back I would say there is substantial evidence proving his innocence. Otherwise, IMHO, his little timeout would probably still be in effect.

aaronb
09-14-2010, 01:31 PM
Ford has really been a heavy Bird apologist for quite some time. I'd put more stock in what Hollinger has to say.

Sookie
09-14-2010, 01:42 PM
With Lance being back I would say there is substantial evidence proving his innocence. Otherwise, IMHO, his little timeout would probably still be in effect.

It probably just means the Pacers could have a harder time waiving him and keeping the money (players bargain) before he's convicted. Sort of the whole, "innocent until proven guilty"

90'sNBARocked
09-14-2010, 02:20 PM
before he's convicted.

It really sounds like your taking this case personally. So much so that you referred to Lance's situation with the above quote

How will you feel if he is found innocent? Will you look at him as someone who "got off" rather than someone that was falsely accused?

Shawne#4
09-14-2010, 02:53 PM
it is interesting to read a national perspective on the Lance and Rush situations

Ford doesn't seem to think much of it at all. Maybe the perception that the Pacers are a bunch of "thugs" hasn't left the Indianapolis area, but the national perception of the Pacers might be more positive now that Tinsley and SJax are long gone. Just speculation.

90'sNBARocked
09-14-2010, 03:09 PM
Ford doesn't seem to think much of it at all. Maybe the perception that the Pacers are a bunch of "thugs" hasn't left the Indianapolis area, but the national perception of the Pacers might be more positive now that Tinsley and SJax are long gone. Just speculation.

I am sure it is. think how long iot took Portland to rid themselves of being called the "jailblazers"

cdash
09-14-2010, 03:10 PM
Ford has really been a heavy Bird apologist for quite some time. I'd put more stock in what Hollinger has to say.

He really has. If you go back and read his reviews on the Pacers' summers and drafts for the past 3 or 4 years, he almost always gives them a higher grade/review than anyone else. I think he has a good relationship with David Morway, actually. He touts Morway a lot and never fails to mention him in a "top candidate to run an NBA team" type of discussion.

pacers74
09-14-2010, 03:16 PM
I really hope all of this offseason stuff kind of just blows over. The positive things form this offseason way out weigh the negative. I don't condone what Lance did, but didn't Jason Kidd get in trouble for domestic violance back when he was with New Jersey or Pheonix? He go past it. I know he was a proven player then, but he was older and should of had more life experience and should have known better. Lance is young and maybe we give him a second chance.
He can become a spokesperson against domestic abuse.

MyFavMartin
09-14-2010, 03:37 PM
I think Ford can see the forest for the trees and sees the plan here in Indy for rebuilding and respects that TPTB have stuck to their patient, logical plan. I think too many reporters outside of Indy have no clue about Roy's development, Granger's talent, and the young guys on the roster who could really develop this as a Blazers East team.

Sookie
09-14-2010, 04:24 PM
It really sounds like your taking this case personally. So much so that you referred to Lance's situation with the above quote

How will you feel if he is found innocent? Will you look at him as someone who "got off" rather than someone that was falsely accused?

I apologize if it came off that way. That wasn't my intention.

I just meant they probably figured they can't punish him before the law decides if he needs to be punished.

And yea, as a woman and as a person who detests domestic violence for a multitude of reasons, I am taking it a bit personally. If he's innocent, than no harm. But I don't want a domestic abuser on the team, and if he's one, I'm not all for letting him off the hook because he has potential. (And I wouldn't be for letting him off the hook if he was Lebron)

It bothers me that people want to let this slide because he's "young" (He's twenty, he should know better..and if ignorance and immaturity is his defense do you REALLY want him on the team.) or because he's talanted. That's what I'm taking offense too. I am sick of people getting let off easy on these things. And on a personal level, Lance has a DAUGHTER. If he did it (which, the probability is extremely high) he needs to get his issues solved..or he needs to be kept away from that daughter and the mother of his child.

I'll give him this, at least he hasn't been dumb enough to violate the restraining order (Nate Miles did that at Uconn..:rolleyes:)

xBulletproof
09-14-2010, 04:30 PM
I just meant they probably figured they can't punish him before the law decides if he needs to be punished.

Why would that matter? Tinsley was never even charged with anything I don't believe, and they punished him.

Sookie
09-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Why would that matter? Tinsley was never even charged with anything I don't believe, and they punished him.

And didn't they have a hard time with the CBA because of it?

Plus, in this case..either what he did was illegal or he didn't do it. So you probably should wait and see if he's convicted before punishing.

I'm not quite sure I agree with it, because I still say there could be some issues in the locker room with this. It may cause chemistry issues between some of the guys, if Lance has anger issues that extends farther than against women (assuming of course its true) that could inevitably be a problem..ect..but in terms of covering their butts, I can see why the Pacers might let him back in Conseco.

xBulletproof
09-14-2010, 04:42 PM
And didn't they have a hard time with the CBA because of it?

I guess if you call no punishments and a scheduled arbitration hearing that never even took place .... a hard time.

dadscout
09-14-2010, 05:34 PM
Here are the rest of the grades as handed out by Ford:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=SummerGrades-East-100914 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=SummerGrades-East-100914)
1. Miami Heat (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mia)

Key additions: LeBron James (trade), Dwyane Wade (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1987) (re-signed), Chris Bosh (trade), Udonis Haslem (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2184) (re-signed), Mike Miller (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=558) (FA), Zydrunas Ilgauskas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362) (FA), James Jones (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2009) (re-signed), Juwan Howard (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=351) (FA)
Key subtractions: Michael Beasley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3418), Daequan Cook (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3196), Jermaine O'Neal, Quentin Richardson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=703)
Grade: A+
2. Washington Wizards (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=was)

Key additions: John Wall (draft), Kirk Hinrich (trade), Josh Howard (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2006) (re-signed), Yi Jianlian (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3214) (trade), Kevin Seraphin (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4289) (draft), Trevor Booker (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4270) (draft), Ted Leonsis (owner)
Key subtractions: Mike Miller, Randy Foye (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3003), Shaun Livingston (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2393)
Grade: A
3. Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind)

Key additions: Darren Collison (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3973) (trade), James Posey (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=671) (trade), Paul George (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4251) (draft), Lance Stephenson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4244) (draft)
Key subtractions: Troy Murphy
Grade: A-
4. Chicago Bulls (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=chi)

Key additions: Carlos Boozer (FA), Kyle Korver (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2011) (FA), Ronnie Brewer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2991) (FA), Tom Thibodeau (coach)
Key subtractions: Kirk Hinrich, Brad Miller (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=556), Hakim Warrick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2794), Vinny Del Negro
Grade: B+
5. New York Knicks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nyk)

Key additions: Amare Stoudemire (trade), Anthony Randolph (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3455) (trade), Raymond Felton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2753) (FA), Ronny Turiaf (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2789) (trade)
Key subtractions: David Lee, Al Harrington (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=308), Chris Duhon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2377), Tracy McGrady, Sergio Rodriguez (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3025)
Grade: B
6. Boston Celtics (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos)

Key additions: Paul Pierce (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=662) (re-signed), Ray Allen (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=9) (re-signed), Shaquille O'Neal (FA), Jermaine O'Neal (FA), Nate Robinson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2782) (re-signed), Avery Bradley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4240) (draft)
Key subtractions: Rasheed Wallace (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883), Tony Allen (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2367), Tom Thibodeau
Grade: B-
7. Milwaukee Bucks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mil)

Key additions: John Salmons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1726) (re-signed), Corey Maggette (trade), Drew Gooden (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1711) (FA), Larry Sanders (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4265) (draft)
Key subtractions: Luke Ridnour (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1985), Dan Gadzuric (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1710), Charlie Bell (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1034), Kurt Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=846)
Grade: B-
8. New Jersey Nets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=njn)

Key additions: Troy Murphy (trade), Travis Outlaw (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2015) (FA), Jordan Farmar (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3002) (FA), Derrick Favors (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4257) (draft), Damion James (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4252) (draft), Avery Johnson (coach), Billy King (GM)
Key subtractions: Yi Jianlian, Courtney Lee (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3445), Rod Thorn, Kiki Vandeweghe
Grade: C+
9. Philadelphia 76ers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=phi)

Key additions: Evan Turner (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4239) (draft), Andres Nocioni (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2456) (trade), Spencer Hawes (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3211) (trade), Doug Collins (coach), Rod Thorn (president)
Key subtractions: Samuel Dalembert (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=991), Eddie Jordan
Grade: C+
10. Atlanta Hawks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=atl)

Key additions: Joe Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1007) (re-signed), Jordan Crawford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4243) (draft), Larry Drew (coach)
Key subtractions: Josh Childress (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2373), Mike Woodson
Grade: C
11. Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)

Key additions: Tracy McGrady (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=532) (FA), Ben Wallace (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=885) (re-signed), Greg Monroe (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4260) (draft)
Key subtractions: Kwame Brown (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=981)
Grade: C
12. Orlando Magic (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=orl)

Key additions: J.J. Redick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3024) (re-signed), Chris Duhon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2377) (FA), Quentin Richardson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=703) (FA), Jason Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=933) (re-signed), Daniel Orton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4263) (draft)
Key subtractions: Matt Barnes (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1765)
Grade: C-
13. Toronto Raptors (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=tor)

Key additions: Leandro Barbosa (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2166) (trade), Linas Kleiza (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2770) (FA), Amir Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2769) (re-signed), Ed Davis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=4259) (draft)
Key subtractions: Chris Bosh (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977), Hedo Turkoglu (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=862), Marco Belinelli (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3190), Antoine Wright (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2801)
Grade: D+
14. Charlotte Bobcats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha)

Key additions: Tyrus Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) (re-signed), Kwame Brown (FA), Shaun Livingston (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2393) (FA), Erick Dampier (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=181) (trade), Michael Jordan (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1035) (owner)
Key subtractions: Raymond Felton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2753), Tyson Chandler, Robert Johnson
Grade: D
15. Cleveland Cavaliers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cle)

Key additions: Ramon Sessions (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3231) (trade), Ryan Hollins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3008) (trade), Byron Scott (coach), Chris Grant (promoted to GM)
Key subtractions: LeBron James (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966), Shaquille O'Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362), Delonte West (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2422), Mike Brown, Danny Ferry, Lance Blanks
Grade: F

Putnam
09-14-2010, 05:40 PM
With Lance being back I would say there is substantial evidence proving his innocence. Otherwise, IMHO, his little timeout would probably still be in effect.


"Wo, wo wo. Let's just say you know nothing about Lance's charges and leave it at that. If Lance's status with the Pacers told you anything at all about what the New York prosecutors are planning to do, they wouldn't be any good at there jobs."

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQH9QGDq3RABtY_SFxC967oHGx7t2eB_ BZMFKUXMem5504dSec&t=1&usg=__lJPRx2qRavcSlymP9RDiLe4y5Ew=

And I'm going to stop quoting right there.

Putnam
09-14-2010, 05:45 PM
It really is a very favorable review, given that the Pacers' acquisitions are all question marks. Collison did very well and there's only a small question mark as to whether he can do it again in Indy and do it for a full season.

But George and Stephenson are very big questions marks. Kenny Williams-sized question marks. James White-sized question marks.

But a good review is a nice thing.

xBulletproof
09-14-2010, 05:50 PM
But George and Stephenson are very big questions marks. Kenny Williams-sized question marks. James White-sized question marks

..... when aren't draft picks question marks? The real question is whether the position in which you were drafting was equal to the amount, and severity of question marks surrounding that player.

90'sNBARocked
09-14-2010, 05:50 PM
No need to apologize and this is avery sensitive subject for me as well. Im proud to say Im a "mamas boy" and can put into words what I would do if anyone touched my mom.

the reason peole say "he's young" is because we would like to believe he can make ammends and change his life, more so then a 30 year old

I appreciate, and enjoy your posts

Indra
09-14-2010, 08:27 PM
I apologize if it came off that way. That wasn't my intention.

I just meant they probably figured they can't punish him before the law decides if he needs to be punished.

And yea, as a woman and as a person who detests domestic violence for a multitude of reasons, I am taking it a bit personally. If he's innocent, than no harm. But I don't want a domestic abuser on the team, and if he's one, I'm not all for letting him off the hook because he has potential. (And I wouldn't be for letting him off the hook if he was Lebron)

It bothers me that people want to let this slide because he's "young" (He's twenty, he should know better..and if ignorance and immaturity is his defense do you REALLY want him on the team.) or because he's talanted. That's what I'm taking offense too. I am sick of people getting let off easy on these things. And on a personal level, Lance has a DAUGHTER. If he did it (which, the probability is extremely high) he needs to get his issues solved..or he needs to be kept away from that daughter and the mother of his child.

I'll give him this, at least he hasn't been dumb enough to violate the restraining order (Nate Miles did that at Uconn..:rolleyes:)

If he is convicted and sentenced to something, as long as he serves his sentence it isn't our place or the Pacers' to keep punishing him. I went through this argument before with someone over the Vick situation. If he serves his punishment that the court deemed appropriate for his crime, then he ought to be given every opportunity to play if that's what he chooses to do. And we have him under contract, so he ought to be given a shot to play here. Just my opinion of course. I'm not condoning his (purported) behavior by any means, I'm just saying that if/once he serves his time he is a free man.

Indra
09-14-2010, 08:32 PM
Cleveland Cavaliers:

Key additions: Ramon Sessions (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3231) (trade), Ryan Hollins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3008) (trade), Byron Scott (coach), Chris Grant (promoted to GM)
Key subtractions: LeBron James (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1966), Shaquille O'Neal, Zydrunas Ilgauskas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=362), Delonte West (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2422), Mike Brown, Danny Ferry, Lance Blanks
Grade: F

Holy cow, I knew the Cavs lost a lot this offseason, but I didn't realize it was that bad. They practically lost their entire team and front office! They are in seriously bad shape...

aaronb
09-14-2010, 09:14 PM
How the hell are we ranked ahead of Philly, Chicago and the Knicks in offseason moves? I'm as big a Collision fan as anyone. But is he a better player today than Boozer, Stoudamire, Evan Turner or even Anthony Randolph?

This looks like a Mike Wells list more than a Chad Ford list.

Putnam
09-14-2010, 09:15 PM
Holy cow, I knew the Cavs lost a lot this offseason, but I didn't realize it was that bad. They practically lost their entire team and front office! They are in seriously bad shape...



It's not all bad. They got a whole lot younger! :D





.

daschysta
09-14-2010, 09:48 PM
How the hell are we ranked ahead of Philly, Chicago and the Knicks in offseason moves? I'm as big a Collision fan as anyone. But is he a better player today than Boozer, Stoudamire, Evan Turner or even Anthony Randolph?

This looks like a Mike Wells list more than a Chad Ford list.

Even his whole years stats are more impressive than anything anthony randolph has done, even when taking into account the fact that his numbers are mitigated by the time he was benched because he had chris paul in front of him. Evan turner hasn't proven to be more effective than collison yet... Collison was first team all rookie, let turner have a rookie season better than collisons then we can talk about him, boozer is a great move, but this list isn't only about Collison, many people believe that Murphy being out is addition by subtraction by itself... As for Amare he is simply replacing david lee, who is also an all star, just of a slightly lesser caliber, while collison fills a huge gigantic hole on our roster.

aaronb
09-14-2010, 10:12 PM
Even his whole years stats are more impressive than anything anthony randolph has done, even when taking into account the fact that his numbers are mitigated by the time he was benched because he had chris paul in front of him. Evan turner hasn't proven to be more effective than collison yet... Collison was first team all rookie, let turner have a rookie season better than collisons then we can talk about him, boozer is a great move, but this list isn't only about Collison, many people believe that Murphy being out is addition by subtraction by itself... As for Amare he is simply replacing david lee, who is also an all star, just of a slightly lesser caliber, while collison fills a huge gigantic hole on our roster.


Playing devils advocate.....

Couldn't it also be said that Murphy was our 2nd best player. That Collison was a late 1st round pick that played well in a small sample. In an offense that is built around showcasing the PG position.

How would TJ Ford or Earl Watson have performed in the New Orleans offense last year? That is the real question. Or more so how will Collision be utilized in the JOB system?

cdash
09-14-2010, 10:19 PM
How the hell are we ranked ahead of Philly, Chicago and the Knicks in offseason moves? I'm as big a Collision fan as anyone. But is he a better player today than Boozer, Stoudamire, Evan Turner or even Anthony Randolph?

This looks like a Mike Wells list more than a Chad Ford list.

Boozer and Amare: No
Turner and Randolph: Yes, he is better right now

I don't see why you think Philly had a good offseason. Besides adding Turner (who really is an odd fit between Holiday and Iguodala), what positive did they do?

Chicago probably had a better offseason, so I won't argue much there.

Everyone keeps saying the Knicks improved a lot and I'm just not seeing it. Sure, they added Amare, but is he really that much of an upgrade over David Lee? He's better defensively, which is not saying much as he is still a poor defender. I know they got Felton, Azubuike, and Randolph, but those guys aren't game changers. They are nice players with some potential, but they aren't going to set the world on fire.

Dece
09-14-2010, 10:34 PM
Yes, Amare is THAT much of an upgrade over Lee, who is right there with Murphy for greatest fantasy basketball player who isn't actually that good at basketball.

Anthem
09-14-2010, 11:05 PM
How would TJ Ford or Earl Watson have performed in the New Orleans offense last year? That is the real question. Or more so how will Collision be utilized in the JOB system?
That's a fantastic question.

Jon Theodore
09-14-2010, 11:11 PM
Other than Chad's apparent ignorance with regards to the severity of Lance's charges (unless he knows something we don't), I agree.


Chad Ford is not ignorant about anything involving Lance Stephenson, in fact he probably knows more than any of us know. The amount of overreacting on this board about Stephenson has been borderline hysterical.

You guys act like Lance is going to serve time or something, he will get Probation and be fine. People in the NBA won't even be talking about his "Charges" come December, especially if he is playing well.

aaronb
09-14-2010, 11:22 PM
Boozer and Amare: No
Turner and Randolph: Yes, he is better right now

I don't see why you think Philly had a good offseason. Besides adding Turner (who really is an odd fit between Holiday and Iguodala), what positive did they do?

Chicago probably had a better offseason, so I won't argue much there.

Everyone keeps saying the Knicks improved a lot and I'm just not seeing it. Sure, they added Amare, but is he really that much of an upgrade over David Lee? He's better defensively, which is not saying much as he is still a poor defender. I know they got Felton, Azubuike, and Randolph, but those guys aren't game changers. They are nice players with some potential, but they aren't going to set the world on fire.


So if I follow........Amare,Randolph,Felton nor Azubuike are not game changers




But Darren Collison, Paul George and Lance Stephenson are game changers?

Where can I buy playoff tickets?

Hicks
09-14-2010, 11:40 PM
Chad Ford is not ignorant about anything involving Lance Stephenson, in fact he probably knows more than any of us know. The amount of overreacting on this board about Stephenson has been borderline hysterical.

You guys act like Lance is going to serve time or something, he will get Probation and be fine. People in the NBA won't even be talking about his "Charges" come December, especially if he is playing well.

Everything I've heard/read about what Lance is accused of doing suggest he's going to jail if the allegations are true.

Sookie
09-14-2010, 11:44 PM
That's a fantastic question.

I don't think either have the skills/decision making (Ford both, Watson the skills) to play in that system. Which is a credit to Collison. I would have been interested in seeing Price play in it though, as he does. (And most decent PGs do.)

cdash
09-15-2010, 01:16 AM
So if I follow........Amare,Randolph,Felton nor Azubuike are not game changers




But Darren Collison, Paul George and Lance Stephenson are game changers?

Where can I buy playoff tickets?

The only ones who I said weren't game changers are Randolph, Felton, and Azubuike, and I stand by that. Amare is, but he offers similar things to what David Lee offered, so I am not counting that as a huge upgrade. Make no mistake it is an upgrade, but I'm anxious to see Amare playing without Nash for the first time since what, his rookie season? The Knicks will be better, and I suspect we will finish with reasonably similar win totals (within 5-6 games of each other).

For us, I think Collison is a game changer, especially when you consider how much of an upgrade he is over what we had in Ford/Watson. I expect him to improve in his second season, although I admit I am concerned about his fit in Obie's offense. George and Lance may not be game changers, but we had addition by subtraction by trading Murphy away and getting another solid veteran in James Posey. More importantly, I think Ford took into account more than just this year when he means "improvement". We positioned ourselves well for the future with new young talent that fits well around what we already have. New York patched some holes and took a flier on a high potential guy (Randolph), but they paid a lot of money over a long period of time to a guy with injury concerns.