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View Full Version : Dampier talks to increase Monday



pwee31
09-12-2010, 07:36 PM
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69087/20100912/dampier_deal_likely_beginning_monday/


Trade talks involving Bobcats center Erick Dampier are expected to increase beginning Monday.

Dampier has a unique, voidable $13 million expiring contract.

A team can trade for Dampier and then waive him without having to absorb any of his salary.

"It is quite interesting, being with Erick on the front end and the back end of this deal," Charlotte general manger Rod Higgins said. "I've also changed teams to get that done."

I'm interested in this b/c the Pacers have been rumored with the Bobcats a few times.

During the Collison deal it was rumored the Bobcats tried to get in the deal and send Dampier to Pacers with Ford going to Raptors and Calderon to the Bobcats.

I think it's more interesting now that the Bobcats can include players in a deal. They don't have a PF we can use, but if we can get Dampier we can cut him and drop 13 million in salary. Which would allow you to try and sign a FA, give you money to cut your losses and perhaps buyout another player to open up spot for Magnum.

Not sure what's going to happen. I know Amundson hasn't exactly signed anywhere yet. I still don't think Bobcats/Larry Brown are happy with their PG situation.

I could see the Pacers being in a deal and getting Dampier's contract, or getting the PF they want while another team gets Dampier's deal.

It'll be interesting

ChristianDudley
09-12-2010, 07:47 PM
I think (or actually hoping) we'll be involved in a deal with the Bobcats for Dampier. Hopefully T.J. would be involved at the very least.

Psyren
09-12-2010, 07:53 PM
For whatever reason, I have continued to think to myself that Dampier will be a Pacer this year with Ford going to Charlotte.

Maybe this is good news.

BigAndy
09-12-2010, 07:59 PM
What is everyone's opinion on trading ford. Can we afford to get rid of him with Price not at 100% and all this nonsense with Lance?

BornReady
09-12-2010, 08:04 PM
I believe Price is 100%? He's been scrimmaging and practicing with the other guys.

And I think it is in both the team and Ford's best interest that he is traded.

vnzla81
09-12-2010, 08:06 PM
What is everyone's opinion on trading ford. Can we afford to get rid of him with Price not at 100% and all this nonsense with Lance?

trust me we don't need Ford

BigAndy
09-12-2010, 08:06 PM
Oh, I'm glad to hear that Price is back. I thought that he was just maybe going to be back at the beginning of training camp. In that case I do hope that TJ is traded and that something goes down that makes our team better.

TMJ31
09-12-2010, 08:24 PM
Anyone have any knowledge of how this Dampier contract works out?

Seems odd to me that you can trade for him, waive him and not take any salary cap hit at all...

Must be some odd loophole? Anyone?

Pacers#1Fan
09-12-2010, 08:28 PM
If this is the reason the Bobcats are going after Dampier then I see us throwing in Solo with Ford. I would say the Pacers wind up keeping Dampier for the season and that opens up a roster spot for Rolle.

ChristianDudley
09-12-2010, 08:31 PM
I'd rather have Roy play PG for us than T.J. lmaooooo!!!

Psyren
09-12-2010, 08:38 PM
Charlotte has 16 under contract already, so I really have a hard time thinking that they'd want to take back 2 players.

And if we want to keep Magnum, I don't imagine we want to take back 2 either unless we can deal 2 off, which still wouldn't give Magnum a spot.

However, I'm not exactly sure how Dampiers contract works. And if we trade for him, I would think we'd want to keep him at least for his rebounding skills. He's not completely useless.

Larry Staverman
09-12-2010, 09:07 PM
Anyone have any knowledge of how this Dampier contract works out?

Seems odd to me that you can trade for him, waive him and not take any salary cap hit at all...

Must be some odd loophole? Anyone?

His salary is not guaranteed for this season. It can be included in a trade then he can be waived with no salary due.

pwee31
09-12-2010, 09:07 PM
Anyone have any knowledge of how this Dampier contract works out?

Seems odd to me that you can trade for him, waive him and not take any salary cap hit at all...

Must be some odd loophole? Anyone?

It's the fact that Dampier's contract is not guaranteed if released by a certain date. So basically a team can trade for him and release him shedding that $13 million off the books.

Yeah Ford/Solo for Dampier would make sense for both teams. Bobcats get a starting PG and big and still save like a couple million to keep them under the cap.

This type of deal essentially leaves the Pacers with 2 open roster spots to sign Magnum Rolle and another player if necessary.

Same could go for a 3 for 2 where Pacers can toss in Rush and get back a Henderson or Augustin and still have 2 spots after cutting Dampier.

Not sure what will happen or what type of offers the Bobcats can get. Dampier is basically an instant expiring contract and roster spot.

ChristianDudley
09-12-2010, 09:11 PM
Charlotte has 16 under contract already, so I really have a hard time thinking that they'd want to take back 2 players.

And if we want to keep Magnum, I don't imagine we want to take back 2 either unless we can deal 2 off, which still wouldn't give Magnum a spot.

However, I'm not exactly sure how Dampiers contract works. And if we trade for him, I would think we'd want to keep him at least for his rebounding skills. He's not completely useless.

Maybe a 3+ team trade?

Will Galen
09-12-2010, 11:13 PM
Here's the basic facts in this case.

Jordan does not want to pay the luxury tax.

With Dampier included the Bobcats have a payroll of $78m.

Dampier is set to make $13 million this year. So waiving Dampier would put the Bobcats payroll at $65m.

$78m
-13m
$65m

The luxury tax line is $70m. Thus in any trade the Bobcats can only take back $5m, so a two team trade won't work with any team not under the luxury tax already. So a multi team trade looks like the only way for them to trade Dampier.

One more fact. TJ Ford makes $8.5m this year, so for us to trade TJ to the Bobcats in a multi team trade means the Bobcats would have to take back that amount. So they would have to add $3.5m in outgoing salaries, which makes doing a trade even more challenging.

Sookie
09-12-2010, 11:18 PM
I believe Price is 100%? He's been scrimmaging and practicing with the other guys.

And I think it is in both the team and Ford's best interest that he is traded.

I think he's been cleared to play, just, he's not 100% yet (probably not as fast/explosive as he typically is.)

CableKC
09-12-2010, 11:21 PM
Realistically, the cost for the Bobcats for making a trade involving Dampier is that they will have to remain OVER the LT. Since Jordan has repeatedly said that they don't want to pay LT.....I'd guess that the asking price for Dampier's contract is going to be pretty high.

My guess is that the only way that the Pacers would be involved ( in any way with Dampier and the Bobcats ) is if Dampier is sent to a 3rd or 4th Team where the Pacers DO NOT get Dampier, the Bobcats get TJ along with some other asset and we get some other Player from the 3rd or 4th Team.

EDIT - or what Will said....

Pacerized
09-13-2010, 09:31 AM
The only way the Bobcats get what they're after is to trade with a team that has an exception and a reason to reduce payroll either this season or for next years free agency.
The Cavs and Toronto meet that criteria. Both teams could send a player making 5 mil or less and use their exception. I'd think that it would be very difficult for the Pacers to be involved in a 3 team trade but you never know after Bird pulled out the trade for DC. I just can't think of a trade that would work.
Whoever gets Dampier is almost certain to waive him, he would be a nice pick up off waivers but we'd have to dump another player to make that happen.

Unclebuck
09-13-2010, 10:14 AM
What is everyone's opinion on trading ford. Can we afford to get rid of him with Price not at 100% and all this nonsense with Lance?

it is clear to me that the Pacers (coaches, GM, maybe players) don't want Ford on the team. So yes we can get rid of him, infact we need to get rid of him. Only possible reason to keep him is if you think he can be traded for soemthing good between now and the trade deadline

Speed
09-13-2010, 11:32 AM
Easy Peasey, buy out TJ, sign Magnum. If the Lance situation turns out where you cut him, you pick up a vet 3rd PG.

I'm good with all of that, actually.

MyFavMartin
09-13-2010, 12:03 PM
I don't see Charlotte trading Dampier if they want to stay under the lux tax.

If they want Ford, I could see the Pacers trading for Nazr.

We know they want Ford but they also know that we don't.

If they cut Dampier they'd be able to take on salary, right, and we could throw in Solo as a further salary dump to balance the trade in the Pacers eyes, right?

Will Galen
09-13-2010, 01:28 PM
I just can't think of a trade that would work.
Whoever gets Dampier is almost certain to waive him, he would be a nice pick up off waivers but we'd have to dump another player to make that happen.

I worked out a trade, but it's not very realistic.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=56519

90'sNBARocked
09-13-2010, 02:24 PM
Andrew in Laurinburg, NC:
What do u see the Bobcats doing with Dampier's contract? What kind of trade do u see us doing to get better, maybe Dj for Thompson in Sac. and a follow up to get a starting pg allowing Livingston to gain strength in his knee.

Bill Ingram:
The Kings certainly have more talent than they can use in the front court. . .and Landry is better than Thompson. He'd be a nice fit in Charlotte, but he's also exactly what the Pacers need. They should put together a three-team deal with Ford landing in Charlotte, Thompson landing in Indy and Damp's contract landing in Sacramento. Other pieces would have to be involved, but that's the foundation of a move that helps everyone involved.


I thought this was a trade that made sense for everyone involved

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?C...#ixzz0zQmGKcwO

naptownmenace
09-13-2010, 05:17 PM
I thought this was a trade that made sense for everyone involved

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?C...#ixzz0zQmGKcwO

I absolutely love this trade but at the same time, I'm not sure it really helps the Bobcats out as much as it helps out the Kings and Pacers. I can't help thinking the Bobcats would want a future 1st rounder thrown in as well.

90'sNBARocked
09-13-2010, 05:43 PM
I absolutely love this trade but at the same time, I'm not sure it really helps the Bobcats out as much as it helps out the Kings and Pacers. I can't help thinking the Bobcats would want a future 1st rounder thrown in as well.

Me too,

I think of Sac wants cap relief, it works well for all involved

avoidingtheclowns
09-13-2010, 06:03 PM
I think of Sac wants cap relief, it works well for all involved

They don't. They're at $43ish million (with 14 players) for this season and $28ish million for next. They're in good shape cap-wise -- the only awful contract at this point is Francisco Garcia's deal (they seem to like Udrih playing next to Evans so the cost is acceptable).

pwee31
09-13-2010, 06:17 PM
I'd take that 3 way with Sacramento and run. Question is what are the other pieces b/c salaries have to match

Pacersalltheway10
09-13-2010, 06:20 PM
The Pacers/Bobcats/ Kings deal sounds like the Collison trade. I hope Larry Bird reads this trade proposal and looks into it. That would cap off a wonderful summer.

Will Galen
09-13-2010, 06:37 PM
I'd take that 3 way with Sacramento and run. Question is what are the other pieces b/c salaries have to match

I've worked out several trades, but exactly what does Sac need? I know they don't need a big so they would waive Dampier. But what incentive do they have to make a such a trade?

Here's one that works and puts Charlotte under the lux tax.

TJ Ford, and Solo from the Pacers to Charlotte.

Thompson from Sac. and Henderson from Charlotte to Indiana.

Dampier and Najera from Charlotte to Sacramento.

It also works if Najera and Henderson trade spots, still is either enough incentive for Sac to to it?

Another question. We would still have to cut someone to sign Rolle, who?

CableKC
09-13-2010, 07:03 PM
I've worked out several trades, but exactly what does Sac need? I know they don't need a big so they would waive Dampier. But what incentive do they have to make a such a trade?

Here's one that works and puts Charlotte under the lux tax.

TJ Ford, and Solo from the Pacers to Charlotte.

Thompson from Sac. and Henderson from Charlotte to Indiana.

Dampier and Najera from Charlotte to Sacramento.

It also works if Najera and Henderson trade spots, still is either enough incentive for Sac to to it?

Another question. We would still have to cut someone to sign Rolle, who?
I don't think that the Kings would do this as Najera isn't any real answer to anybody....nor does it make any sense for the Kings to add yet another Center to their rotation. Add in that the Kings ARE ALREADY under the Salary Cap ( and therefore has no need for Dampier's Contract ), my guess is that if we were ( in any way ) involved....we'd have to involve a 4th team to take on Dampier's Contract ( which shouldn't be too hard ) while sending back something of value to the Kings.

Which leads to the obvious question....what Teams are over the 2010-2011 Luxury Tax?

The problem is that if we get back Jason Thompson, then there would have to be a really pretty offer that the Kings get in order to part with him while taking on some additional salary.

pwee31
09-13-2010, 08:26 PM
It looks like the Kings are under the tax so they could actually move someone without sending out equal salary. Someone would have to make it worth the Kings while by sending them a young piece, or taking back a bad contract if they have one?

They may be interested in a SG like Rush or Henderson?

The Kings could unload maybe Garcia or Udrih to make it worth their while as well?

pizza guy
09-13-2010, 10:16 PM
Forgive my CBA ignorance, but I'm going to ask a couple questions that I haven't seen asked yet in this thread. They probably haven't been asked, because they're probably stupid questions, but let's give it a try.

1. If Dampier can simply be waived, and the Bobcats are looking to deal him just to avoid the LT, I assume there's some reason Charlotte can't cut him? Why don't they just give him the ax?

2. Didn't the Pacers acquire a trade exemption somewhere along the line? Would they be able to use that in a deal like this?

Also, this has to be a multi-team deal to make any sense. I'm all for trading away TJ Ford, but all the FAs of any significance are signed so the cap-space this would offer would be pointless, and no matter how little we think of TJ, he has to be worth a little more than worthless cap-space, right?

--pizza

pwee31
09-13-2010, 11:59 PM
Forgive my CBA ignorance, but I'm going to ask a couple questions that I haven't seen asked yet in this thread. They probably haven't been asked, because they're probably stupid questions, but let's give it a try.

1. If Dampier can simply be waived, and the Bobcats are looking to deal him just to avoid the LT, I assume there's some reason Charlotte can't cut him? Why don't they just give him the ax?

2. Didn't the Pacers acquire a trade exemption somewhere along the line? Would they be able to use that in a deal like this?

Also, this has to be a multi-team deal to make any sense. I'm all for trading away TJ Ford, but all the FAs of any significance are signed so the cap-space this would offer would be pointless, and no matter how little we think of TJ, he has to be worth a little more than worthless cap-space, right?

--pizza

1. Yes the Bobcats could waive him as well, but the LT isn't there ONLY goal. Jordan would like to stay under the tax, but they also want to add some talent. Remember they most traded Chandler to the Raptors for Calderon, but they thought Dampier's contract would be more valuable and land a better/less expensive piece than Calderon. They can trade Dampier for a piece that can help and still get under the LT

2. I don't believe a trade exemption can be used with another player, so it would basically be use the trade exemption to acquire a player

I wouldn't say cap space is worthless? It would allow you to trade for a player without having to match salaries. Really benefits you if you have a team looking to cut salary or rebuild that wants to trade a player simply for cap space. It's like trading an expiring contract that expires instantly.

I do think it requires a 3 way if the Pacers were to get involved b/c the Bobcats need to lose about $8 million to get under the LT. Damiper makes $13 million. which mean to stay under the cap they would need to only take back $5 million. So they would need to add more salary for a Ford deal to work while also getting under the LT.

Only way that wouldn't have to be the case is if multiple players were involved for another $5 million from the Bobcats... which is possible.

pizza guy
09-14-2010, 01:07 AM
1. Yes the Bobcats could waive him as well, but the LT isn't there ONLY goal. Jordan would like to stay under the tax, but they also want to add some talent. Remember they most traded Chandler to the Raptors for Calderon, but they thought Dampier's contract would be more valuable and land a better/less expensive piece than Calderon. They can trade Dampier for a piece that can help and still get under the LT

2. I don't believe a trade exemption can be used with another player, so it would basically be use the trade exemption to acquire a player

I wouldn't say cap space is worthless? It would allow you to trade for a player without having to match salaries. Really benefits you if you have a team looking to cut salary or rebuild that wants to trade a player simply for cap space. It's like trading an expiring contract that expires instantly.

I do think it requires a 3 way if the Pacers were to get involved b/c the Bobcats need to lose about $8 million to get under the LT. Damiper makes $13 million. which mean to stay under the cap they would need to only take back $5 million. So they would need to add more salary for a Ford deal to work while also getting under the LT.

Only way that wouldn't have to be the case is if multiple players were involved for another $5 million from the Bobcats... which is possible.

Good point. Also, as I think about it, cap space doesn't expire. So, it would carry over into next season when we'd have more cap space than we could use.

--pizza

O'Bird
09-14-2010, 02:04 AM
I think of Sac wants cap relief, it works well for all involved

They've got one of the lowest payrolls in the league. They don't need to shed salary, and they certainly have no interest in Dampier. I also don't see why Charlotte would be so interested in TJ Ford.

Denver wants expiring contracts. New Orleans should want them, but it's not clear that they're there yet. Cleveland is a huge payroll mess; they ought to dismantle, in my opinion, but that's going to be a long hard slog. A three way deal with long-term contracts going out of Cleveland and Indiana's expirings going in looks possible, but who would the third party be, and what could the provide Indiana that really helps them going forward? Admittedly, there are good reasons to trade TJ Ford now rather than wait for the deadline or next summer.

.

Justin Tyme
09-14-2010, 07:53 AM
The Bobcats aren't going to trade Dampier. I stated so on 8/30 in the trade section that the Bobcats are 8 mil over the LT now with Dampiers contract. It would cost them major bucks in LT plus loss of about 5 mil in shared revenue for being under the LT if they did. I believe on the 8/31 in the 3rd PG thread Count stated it would cost MJ about 20 mil if he traded Dampier. Jordan isn't going to take a 20 mil hit out of his pocket unless maybe he was getting Wade, LJ, Kobie, etc and then I'd have my doubts. Jordan just doesn't have the deep pockets some other owners have.

I don't see Jordan making a stupid decision by trading Dampier where is will cost him in the 8 figure category just after buying the Bobcats. Once he cuts Dampier he will be 5 mil under the LT, and then can either sign a player or make trades for Ford or whom ever.

Will Galen
09-14-2010, 09:37 AM
The Bobcats aren't going to trade Dampier. I stated so on 8/30 in the trade section that the Bobcats are 8 mil over the LT now with Dampiers contract. It would cost them major bucks in LT plus loss of about 5 mil in shared revenue for being under the LT if they did. I believe on the 8/31 in the 3rd PG thread Count stated it would cost MJ about 20 mil if he traded Dampier. Jordan isn't going to take a 20 mil hit out of his pocket unless maybe he was getting Wade, LJ, Kobie, etc and then I'd have my doubts. Jordan just doesn't have the deep pockets some other owners have.

I don't see Jordan making a stupid decision by trading Dampier where is will cost him in the 8 figure category just after buying the Bobcats. Once he cuts Dampier he will be 5 mil under the LT, and then can either sign a player or make trades for Ford or whom ever.

Stupid decision?

To some trading partners Dampier is worth almost $30 mill. That would be his $13m salary if waived, a $13m luxury tax saving, plus getting under the luxury tax means a team can receive $3-5m at the end of the year as a bonus.

Last I read Charlotte needs a point guard and a big. There are trades out there that will not only get Charlotte under the Luxury tax, but get them both needs.

They can always waive Dampier, but they can acquire better assets by trading him. I look for him to be traded.

naptownmenace
09-14-2010, 11:17 AM
Stupid decision?

To some trading partners Dampier is worth almost $30 mill. That would be his $13m salary if waived, a $13m luxury tax saving, plus getting under the luxury tax means a team can receive $3-5m at the end of the year as a bonus.

Last I read Charlotte needs a point guard and a big. There are trades out there that will not only get Charlotte under the Luxury tax, but get them both needs.

They can always waive Dampier, but they can acquire better assets by trading him. I look for him to be traded.

Jordan did sign Kwame Brown who is similar to Dampier in production. Plus they have 16 players under contract. If they cut Dampier, they can still do a trade and take back a little more salary for a PG or backup C and stay under the luxury tax.

I don't think they'll make a trade.

BTW, here's the entire article about this from sportsillustrated.cnn.com:



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/wires/09/11/2030.ap.bkn.nba.s.dust.chip.1st.ld.writethru.1061/#ixzz0zKOXLGA4

Dampier's odd contract makes him NBA's 'Dust Chip'

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) - Rod Higgins was general manager of the Golden State Warriors in 2004 when he helped negotiate what seemed like a routine sign-and-trade deal involving center Erick Dampier.

Six years later, Higgins is on the other side of the country in a new job as GM of the Charlotte Bobcats. And now he holds what's become one of the most valuable contracts in recent memory - the last year of Dampier's unique, voidable $13 million deal.

Dubbed the "Dust Chip'' because a team can trade for Dampier, then waive him and his contract will disappear like a cloud of dust, it's considered gold for teams like the Bobcats seeking salary-cap relief. The 35-year-old veteran has become a get-out-of-jail-free card, a way to achieve financial flexibility and avoid the choke-hold the luxury tax presents.

"It is quite interesting, being with Erick on the front end and the back end of this deal,'' Higgins said, breaking into a chuckle. "I've also changed teams to get that done.''

Higgins' cell phone is busy these days. Starting Monday, 60 days after the Bobcats acquired Dampier from Dallas, the Bobcats can package his contract in another multiplayer deal. It's a chance for the Bobcats to hand off Dampier's contract to another team seeking to reduce payroll and get a key player in return.

That means just two weeks before teams open training camp, Dampier has no idea where he'll play this season - or for what salary. It's all because he failed to achieve the playing-time clause in his seven-year, $73 million deal last season, making the last year non-guaranteed.

It's a rarity in the NBA, where almost all contracts outside of fringe players are fully guaranteed.

"For me, it's just limbo,'' said Dampier, who had arthroscopic knee surgery in May. "I don't really know what's going to happen.''

Trading Dampier is a complicated proposition, though, and the Bobcats may not fare any better than Dallas did.

The Mavericks had dreams of using Dampier's contract to obtain LeBron James, Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh, but that didn't pan out. They instead sent Dampier to Charlotte for center Tyson Chandler in a five-player deal that was hardly a blockbuster.

There has been reports the Bobcats could even acquire Denver forward Carmelo Anthony in a Dampier deal, or at least a starting point guard to replace departed free agent Raymond Felton,

But Higgins is lowering expectations. While saying there's no "drop dead date'' to get a deal done, they may end up simply waiving him.

"The conversations have been had around the league,'' Higgins said. "I don't know if there's going to be anything that subsequently gets done.''

That's because the main motivation for Charlotte owner Michael Jordan is to get under the league's luxury tax threshold of $70.3 million. Having a payroll above that figure triggers a dollar-for-dollar tax, something Jordan has no desire to pay with the Bobcats losing tens of millions annually.

Once Dampier is off the books, the Bobcats would be about $5 million below the luxury tax, so they won't take back more than that in salary in any deal for Dampier. That makes a blockbuster deal difficult unless it's a multi-team trade.

But there is motivation for a team that's already into luxury tax territory. Acquiring Dampier for equal salary and then waiving him would save $26 million this season, his salary plus the tax. So Higgins expects to be busy starting Monday - all because of a contract that couldn't be duplicated today.

In 2004, the luxury tax wasn't in effect every season and teams could re-sign their own players to seven-year deals, one year longer than allowed in the current labor contract.

Entering free agency after averaging a career-best 12.3 points and 12 rebounds, the Warriors packaged Dampier in a trade with Dallas that involved eight players and two draft picks.

Dallas agreed to a seventh-year for Dampier, but only with a playing time requirement. Dampier had to log 2,100 minutes, or an average of 30 minutes over 70 games in 2009-10, to make the $13 million due in the final season guaranteed.

Slowed by a balky knee, the 6-foot-11 Dampier appeared in only 55 games last season and played 1,280 minutes. Suddenly, an aging, unspectacular player had become the "Dust Chip.''

One of Charlotte's options for Dampier was to waive him and re-sign him for less. But while Dampier said in July the Bobcats would get "the first opportunity'' to re-sign him, he turned down a $2.2 million deal. It was all Charlotte could offer because it was over the cap and had used $3.5 million of the $5.7 million midlevel exception to sign guard Shaun Livingston.

So now the Bobcats will likely either trade Dampier or release him. And the move will be made by Higgins, who never would've guessed he'd be holding such a valuable chip six years ago.

"That contract,'' Higgins said, "is probably one of the most valuable contracts in the league.''

CableKC
09-14-2010, 12:00 PM
The Bobcats aren't going to trade Dampier. I stated so on 8/30 in the trade section that the Bobcats are 8 mil over the LT now with Dampiers contract. It would cost them major bucks in LT plus loss of about 5 mil in shared revenue for being under the LT if they did. I believe on the 8/31 in the 3rd PG thread Count stated it would cost MJ about 20 mil if he traded Dampier. Jordan isn't going to take a 20 mil hit out of his pocket unless maybe he was getting Wade, LJ, Kobie, etc and then I'd have my doubts. Jordan just doesn't have the deep pockets some other owners have.

I don't see Jordan making a stupid decision by trading Dampier where is will cost him in the 8 figure category just after buying the Bobcats. Once he cuts Dampier he will be 5 mil under the LT, and then can either sign a player or make trades for Ford or whom ever.
I agree with you here. My guess is that the Bobcats are fielding offers to see what they can get. If something peaks their interest.....they pull the trigger....otherwise Dampier is waived. The only way that the Bobcats consider anything is if they get something huge out of it as the likely cost would involve paying a significant amount of LT.

CableKC
09-14-2010, 12:05 PM
Geez.....you'd wonder why Teams wouldn't want to push onto a Player some "Dust" Contract where they have some huge unguaranteed Contract like Dampier does.

bballpacen
09-14-2010, 01:06 PM
I am looking, but I do not see any realistic deal where Dampier will be moved. If a team is wanting to trade for Dampier, to lower their tax penalty, then they will have to send out a min of 12 mil or so, more or less to much for Charlotte to take back without going back over the LT... Any team below the tax threshold is not going to have much of an interest in him, IMO...

I was playing around with the trade machine/checker for an hour or so trying to revisit the IND/NYN/POR deal that Donnie shot down, with Charlotte sending Damp to Portland, but could not get anything realistic to work out...

Will Galen
09-14-2010, 01:18 PM
I still say trading Dampier can get Charlotte better players in return.

Say they waive him, they will then be roughly $5 million under the Luxury tax line. They have been looking all summer to upgrade their PG position. Without Dampier who do they want to trade that anyone really wants at this late date?

Because of the Stephenson siltation, we may or may not be interested in trading them Ford right now.

However, a lot of teams want Dampier because he's an instant salary drop. For instant, if they want to trade me Najera, I'm not interested. However, if they are trading me Dampier too, I'm very interested.

The thing is Charlotte is setting in the catbird seat. They won't trade Dampier unless they get good players in return and also get under the tax line. If they can't do that then they will waive him and get under the tax line.

Will Galen
09-14-2010, 01:26 PM
I am looking, but I do not see any realistic deal where Dampier will be moved. If a team is wanting to trade for Dampier, to lower their tax penalty, then they will have to send out a min of 12 mil or so, more or less to much for Charlotte to take back without going back over the LT... Any team below the tax threshold is not going to have much of an interest in him, IMO...

There's still a couple weeks before training camps start. There's teams that still have major decisions to make. We have the Stephenson situation to iron out. Denver has to decide what if anything they are going to do with Melo.

If Charlotte trades Dampier it will take something like the Collison four team deal to get them what they want.

CableKC
09-14-2010, 03:00 PM
Below is a list of the Salaries for Teams in 2010-2011:


Lakers - $95.01 mil in 2010-2011
Magic - $93.95 mil in 2010-2011
Mavs - $85.38 mil in 2010-2011
Nuggets - $82.15 mil in 2010-2011
Bobcats - $79.39 mil in 2010-2011
Celtics - $78.74 mil in 2010-2011
Rockets - $75.30 mil in 2010-2011
Jazz - $74.74 mil in 2010-2011
Blazers - $72.79 mil in 2010-2011
Spurs - $69.79 mil in 2010-2011
Sixers - $68.46 mil in 2010-2011
Hawks - $68.41 mil in 2010-2011
Bucks - $68.19 mil in 2010-2011
Heat - $66.99 mil in 2010-2011
Hornets - $66.53 mil in 2010-2011
Pacers - $65.05 mil in 2010-2011
Pistons - $65.02 mil in 2010-2011
Grizzlies - $64.32 mil in 2010-2011
Warriors - $64.01 mil in 2010-2011
Suns - $63.00 mil in 2010-2011
Raptors - $61.33 mil in 2010-2011
Knicks - $56.18 mil in 2010-2011
Bulls - $55.76 mil in 2010-2011
Nets - $55.44 mil in 2010-2011
Clippers - $53.15 mil in 2010-2011
Wizards - $52.85 mil in 2010-2011
Cavs - $51.83 mil in 2010-2011
Thunder - $51.47 mil in 2010-2011
TWolves - $46.18 mil in 2010-2011
Kings - $43.41 mil in 2010-2011

I'm not sure what the LT threshold is...but I'll assume that its roughly around $69+ mil. I marked the Teams in Red that are definitely above that mark...and in turn...maybe interested in getting below the 2010-2011 Luxury Tax Threshold by trying to acquire Dampier's "Dust" contract.

Of the list, I'd conclude that the only Teams that may really be interested in Dampier's Contract are:


Lakers - $95.01 mil in 2010-2011
Magic - $93.95 mil in 2010-2011
Mavs - $85.38 mil in 2010-2011
Nuggets - $82.15 mil in 2010-2011
Bobcats - $79.39 mil in 2010-2011
Celtics - $78.74 mil in 2010-2011
Rockets - $75.30 mil in 2010-2011
Jazz - $74.74 mil in 2010-2011

Of this list, I'll exclude the Mavs since they consciously moved Dampier in the first place...so LT probably isn't a concern for them ( at least for now ). I'll also excluded the Lakers, Magic and Celtics as they are not in a position to give up something substantial as they are in "Win at all costs" mode now. As for the Blazers....they probably want to avoid the LT as well...but only need to shed $3-4 mil in Contracts to get out from under that. The only Teams that I can really be interested in Dampier's contract would be the Nuggets and the Rockets and/or the Jazz ( most notably the Nuggets especially if Carmelo is definitely gone ) are in Playoff mode but not anywhere near Championship contention......what reasonable asset could they part with in order to acquire Dampier's contract?

Side Note 1 - Question to count55 and all Cap-ologists:

I've also noted that the Kings and ( I think ) the TWolves maybe the only Teams that could offer a TPE to the Bobcats in exchange for Dampier ( marked in Blue ). Is it possible for the Pacers to be involved with in a 3 or 4 Team trade with the Bobcats and Kings ( or TWolves ) where Dampier is sent to a 3rd or 4th Team while getting back some asset ( like a Player with some minimal contracts..likely from a prospect that is on a rookie contract ) along with a some portion of the TPE from the Kings or ( possibly ) the TWolves?

Side Note 2 - below is the projected 2011-2012 Salaries ( more for FYI ):


Magic - $97.47 mil 2011-2012
Lakers - $93.49 mil 2011-2012
Celtics - $71.85 mil 2011-2012
Heat - $70.59 mil 2011-2012
Blazers - $65.58 mil 2011-2012
Spurs - $60.35 mil 2011-2012
Jazz - $59.61 mil 2011-2012
Bobcats - $59.41 mil 2011-2012
Mavs - $59.35 mil 2011-2012
Nuggets - $58.74 mil 2011-2012
Sixers - $52.71 mil 2011-2012
Bulls - $52.54 mil 2011-2012
Hawks - $52.46 mil 2011-2012
Clippers - $51.61 mil 2011-2012
Bucks - $50.63 mil 2011-2012
Raptors - $49.94 mil 2011-2012
Cavs - $48.02 mil 2011-2012
Pistons - $47.86 mil 2011-2012
Suns - $47.13 mil 2011-2012
Warriors - $46.73 mil 2011-2012
Hornets - $46.67 mil 2011-2012
TWolves - $43.11 mil 2011-2012
Knicks - $42.66 mil 2011-2012
Rockets - $41.89 mil 2011-2012
Wizards - $41.76 mil 2011-2012
Thunder - $36.42 mil 2011-2012
Pacers - $35.55 mil 2011-2012
Nets - $33.62 mil 2011-2012
Grizzlies - $33.08 mil 2011-2012
Kings - $28.11 mil 2011-2012

Going off of the assumption ( which can easily change given the CBA negotiations ) that Teams over $70 mil COULD be interested in trying to shed Salary early....the Teams in Red are potential candidates in acquiring Dampier's Contract. However, it should be noted that all those Teams would have to do is to acquire an 2010-2011 Expiring Contract...which maybe less costly compared to what Dampier's Contract is.

Professor S
09-14-2010, 04:07 PM
No trade for Dampier . . . Bobcats release him.


Bobcats -- wow -- just announced release of Erick Dampier. Which means Damp will get to pick his next destination after clearing waivers

http://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ/status/24504943470

Justin Tyme
09-14-2010, 04:30 PM
Without Dampier who do they want to trade that anyone really wants at this late date?


Nzar! The Pacers need a b/u center and he's an expiring too.

You trade Ford and rights to Lorbek/Stanko to Charlotte for Nzar and McGuire, and the Pacers cut McGuire. Pacers save about 1 mil. Bobcats get a starting PG that is a 8.5 mil expiring plus a Euro for the future.

CableKC
09-14-2010, 04:31 PM
Well...that was fast...if not predictable. I guess no one offered him anything of worth.

Is the LT about $68 mil?

I calculate the Bobcats 2010-2011 Salary to be about $65.35 mil assuming that Dampier's contract comes completely off of their 2010-2011 Books.

If the FO is really interested in moving BRush....I'd possibly consider:

Nazr Mohammed + Gerald Henderson + Derrick Brown ( filler )
- $9.75 mil in 2010 Salary

for

TJ+Solo+BRush
- $12.07 mil in 2010 Salary

The Bobcats would add about $3+ mil in salary to the Bobcats books but they would still be at or near the LT limit while getting their Starting PG one-year rental. Although we'd still be over the roster limit.....I think that it would be cheaper to buyout Derrick Brown then it would be to buyout Solo since overall....we would be sending out more $$$ then taking back in such a trade. The contracts of BRush Vs. Henderson is a wash as they are pretty much the same.

Heck, I'd even throw in some Cash considerations to help balence out the $$$.

BornReady
09-14-2010, 04:32 PM
Well...that was fast...if not predictable. I guess no one offered him anything of worth.

Is the LT about $68 mil?

I calculate the Bobcats 2010-2011 Salary to be about $65.35 mil assuming that Dampier's contract comes completely off of their 2010-2011 Books.

If the FO is really interested in moving BRush....I'd possibly consider:

Nazr Mohammed + Gerald Henderson + Derrick Brown ( filler )

for

TJ+Solo+BRush

They would add about $3+ mil in salary to the Bobcats books but they would be at or near the LT limit while getting their Starting PG. Although we'd still be over the roster limit.....I think that it would be cheaper to buyout Derrick Brown then it would be to buyout Solo since overall....we would be sending out more $$$ then taking back in such a trade.
wasn't that the proposed deal that fell apart before the trade deadline? or something very similar to that?

Justin Tyme
09-14-2010, 04:35 PM
No trade for Dampier . . . Bobcats release him.



http://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ/status/24504943470


MJ was good for his word of not going into LT Land. I never doubted that Dampier would be waived/cut. It saved MJ MILLIONS! Not to mention he has 5 mil to work with now. Come on MJ and go for the gusto..... trade for FORD!

CableKC
09-14-2010, 04:39 PM
wasn't that the proposed deal that fell apart before the trade deadline? or something very similar to that?
Hmm....come to think of it...yes it was...minus Solo and Derrick Brown.

Great....that just means that MJ can poo-poo the deal at the last second again. :laugh:

Justin Tyme
09-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Is the LT about $68 mil?


70.3 mil

Justin Tyme
09-14-2010, 04:51 PM
wasn't that the proposed deal that fell apart before the trade deadline? or something very similar to that?


Augustin instead of Brown. Solo wasn't part of the original deal.

But they could revive that deal in a heartbeat with with Cable's new Bobcat's 2.0 version, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least. Throw in Stephenson for McGuire, and I'm elated.

pacers74
09-14-2010, 05:22 PM
I just saw this on Robo hicks. Good find Robo.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5572694&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

Erick Dampier free to sign with any team


Email (http://sendtofriend.espn.go.com/sendtofriend/SendToFriend?URL=http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5572694&title=Bobcats%20waive%20Dampier%20to%20get%20under %20luxury%20tax&id=5572694)
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<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> jQuery.getScriptCache('http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/c/?js=espn.tools.r4.js', function() { espn.core.init.tools('5572694','http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5572694'); });</SCRIPT><CITE class=source>Associated Press
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<!-- end mod-article-title --><!-- begin story body -->CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Unable to swing a trade, the Charlotte Bobcats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha) waived center Erick Dampier (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=181) on Tuesday, voiding one of the NBA's most unique contracts and avoiding the dreaded luxury tax.
Dampier was in the last year of a seven-year, $73 million deal, but the $13 million for this season wasn't guaranteed because he failed to meet playing time requirements.
The Michael Jordan (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1035)-owned Bobcats, desperate to get their payroll under the luxury tax threshold of $70.3 million, traded center Tyson Chandler (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=984) to Dallas in July in a five-player trade that included Dampier's contract.
At first, Charlotte wasn't content in just waiving Dampier to clear cap room. Starting Monday, they could've packaged Dampier's contract in a multiplayer deal, possibly for a needed point guard. But the Bobcats found no takers in a deal that also would have kept Charlotte below the luxury tax.
Waiving Dampier leaves the Bobcats about $5 million shy of the luxury tax, a dollar-for-dollar tax Jordan has said the team wouldn't exceed.
"We explored several trade possibilities involving Erick, but ultimately we have been unable to find a viable option that we felt made our team better," general manager Rod Higgins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3734) said. "Out of respect to Erick, we have decided to release him at this time so he may pursue opportunities with other teams prior to training camp."
Once he clears waivers, the 35-year-old Dampier will be free to sign for any team for any salary. Miami, looking for help in the middle to round out its superstar lineup, could be a possibility.
It leaves the Bobcats with uncertainty at center and point guard. Chandler, who was acquired last year from New Orleans for Emeka Okafor (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2399), had an injury-plagued season with Charlotte and the Bobcats used Theo Ratliff (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=687) as the starting center in the playoffs. Ratliff is gone, leaving Nazr Mohammed (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=568) the likely starter going into training camp.
The Bobcats also lost starting point guard Raymond Felton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2753) to New York in free agency. D.J. Augustin (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3415), last season's backup, and newly signed Shaun Livingston (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2393) will contend for the job unless Charlotte makes anther move.

Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press

1984
09-14-2010, 05:28 PM
That is tragic. I honestly thought the Pacers would be able to trade for cap relief.

CableKC
09-14-2010, 05:52 PM
That is tragic. I honestly thought the Pacers would be able to trade for cap relief.
How is it tragic?

The Pacers don't need the Cap relief...the Bobcats did. It actually makes sense that the Bobcats do nothing. The only way that they could have moved Dampier was if they get an offer from some other Team that totally blows their mind.

If we did a trade with the Bobcats directly, they would have had to have taken back $10.55 mil in guaranteed $$$.....still keeping them over the LT.

Financially, a post Dampier-Waived trade involving "Nazr+Henderson+Brown for Ford+Solo+BRush" ( or even cutting it down all the way to "Nazr for Ford" ) deal would make more sense for the Bobcats rather then trying to make a deal work involving Dampier.

Slick Pinkham
09-15-2010, 04:11 PM
So who picks him up for the vet minimum? Not us, I think, given our need to create another roster spot rather than filling one with a has-been.

BornReady
09-15-2010, 04:16 PM
So who picks him up for the vet minimum? Not us, I think, given our need to create another roster spot rather than filling one with a has-been.

A team that has a really good shot at winning the title- probably Miami

CableKC
09-15-2010, 04:17 PM
So who picks him up for the vet minimum? Not us, I think, given our need to create another roster spot rather than filling one with a has-been.
He'll go the cheap route and provide the low-post defense that Miami was hoping that Bosh would provide.

MyFavMartin
09-15-2010, 05:01 PM
I could see the following teams that are below the cap being interested: New York Knicks, New Jersey, Chicago, Golden State, Wolves, Charlotte, Washington, Cleveland, and Detroit.


Does a S&T come into play? A team like Denver whose got Center health issues might be interested if Charlotte agreed.

xBulletproof
09-15-2010, 05:05 PM
Does a S&T come into play? A team like Denver whose got Center health issues might be interested if Charlotte agreed.

I don't believe you can sign and trade a player that you waived, released or whatever. That just wouldn't make sense. Wouldn't be the first thing that didn't make sense, but I still don't think you can.

pacers74
09-16-2010, 03:40 PM
Houston is offering him somewhere around 4 mil for 2 years.

Speed
09-16-2010, 03:49 PM
Houston is offering him somewhere around 4 mil for 2 years.

A Bargain, I think.

pacers74
09-16-2010, 03:54 PM
yea but they have a ton of bigs. Yao, Miller, Scola, Hill, Hayes and Patterson. If they sign Damp, maybe we could get Hill on the cheap.

MyFavMartin
09-16-2010, 04:34 PM
I doubt Houston would want to give up young talent cheaply.

BRush for Patrick Patterson?

memphisgrizzliesfan
09-16-2010, 04:37 PM
Damp is rumored to go everywhere from Memphis to Miami to Houston to Utah.

Houston has already offered a 2 year,$4 million contract to him.

If I were him, at this point in his career. Head to South Beach and back-up Big Z.

CableKC
09-16-2010, 06:46 PM
Damp is rumored to go everywhere from Memphis to Miami to Houston to Utah.

Houston has already offered a 2 year,$4 million contract to him.

If I were him, at this point in his career. Head to South Beach and back-up Big Z.
You'd think that this is what he should do....but he just lost out on $10+ mil cuz he got waived.

I'd hope that his price tag is ramped up so that if the Heat want him...they'll have to pay the LT to get him.