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Trader Joe
09-13-2010, 07:21 PM
Bball you're assuming that there is a Colts defensive scheme that can stop the run this year. I'm not sure there is.

D-BONE
09-13-2010, 10:04 PM
Well, the Saints took the SB, IMO, primarily based on two things.

1) They got consistent pressure on Manning. (We're heavily tilted toward the passing game regardless of why we can argue that is.)

2) They kept Manning off the field by moving the chains, whether it be by ground, a relatively short to medium passing attack, or both. (Our D can't get off the field if we can't get a lead and/or keep the opposition in and long situations. That would seem to indicate that the cart was before the horse in the philosophy that went into assembling the D blueprint and personnel. Or that we just haven't gotten good enough personnel - i.e. DTs and LBs.)

This is effectively how the Texans defeated us yesterday and, as Jay points out, the skinny on how to beat the Colts. Has been for some time now. It's generally worked, particularly in the postseason, with the exception of the SB victory year.

I may be nitpicking. Most people would gladly take any SB victory. I'm just stating this is what I think has held the Colts back in the quest for the glory of multiple championships. Manning is great, but what I wouldn't give for just one difference maker at DT or LB.

ChicagoJ
09-13-2010, 10:59 PM
Manning is great, but what I wouldn't give for just one difference maker at DT or LB.

Or a hellacious run-blocking, pulling guard.

ChicagoJ
09-13-2010, 11:02 PM
If the Colts' defense intentionally funneled the other team to a running game then that is a critical error in coaching and/or the fundamental makeup of the team. When the other team is gashing you on the ground that's good for the opposing team. At some point, even if it requires giving the QB throws, you have to sell out and stop the run at all costs... IMHO...

You can't allow a team to carve you up on the ground like that.

The way that the Colts were playing on D Schaub would've been a fool to put the ball in the air much. Why bother?

You want to put eight or nine men in the box? Ooh boy. Ask the Falcons how that worked on the Steelers' first snap in OT yesterday. That sounds like a great plan until the RB gets into "the second level" (LBs) and discovers that he's already beaten everybody.

You've got to stop the run with your front seven. You can't throw extra bodies at it. Well, maybe on fourth-and-1 you can throw extra bodies at it. But not as a staple in your game plan.

Bball
09-13-2010, 11:49 PM
You want to put eight or nine men in the box? Ooh boy. Ask the Falcons how that worked on the Steelers' first snap in OT yesterday. That sounds like a great plan until the RB gets into "the second level" (LBs) and discovers that he's already beaten everybody.

You've got to stop the run with your front seven. You can't throw extra bodies at it. Well, maybe on fourth-and-1 you can throw extra bodies at it. But not as a staple in your game plan.

I'm not promoting 8 men in the box as my gameplan or team design... I'm promoting it once it's clear the other team isn't going to throw because they are gashing my defense as it is with their running game.

Since86
09-14-2010, 12:50 PM
Do we really have to go through this every stinking year? I'm not talking about the play on the field, I'm talking about the reaction on this board.

Geez guys, it's the first freaking game of the season. Do you not remember how LAST season started out?

I'm not happy about Sunday's game, but it's like some of you are already looking forward to next season. Shade has been doing this doom and gloom routine since 2005. And every year they've won 12 games. Unless you guys, for some reason, think that it's reverse psychology or something, can you wait before looking for a tall enough building to jump off of?

The Texans led the league in passing yards last year, and were at the bottom of the league in rushing. Foster was a practice player through parts of last season. I'm sure the gameplan wasn't in place to deal with the play calling that happened in the second half.

The Texans did a 180degree reversal of their team identity during a game. While it's a HUGE disappointment they (the Colts) weren't able to turn the page and get it figured out during the game, I seriously doubt it spells doom for the rest of the season.

How about they actually play game 2 before drafting the forfeit letters?

SoupIsGood
09-14-2010, 02:46 PM
I know they'll still win at least 11 games, barring disastrous injuries. I'm just peeved at how we never seem to adequately address our weaknesses in the trenches. Remember when the Colts could actually run block, and when the play-action pass was a staple of our offense? That was a lot more fun to watch than Peyton winging it 55 times a game because our OL is made of tissue paper.

And DT is infuriating. McFarland was our one decent D lineman inside, and we had him for half a season. We were playing friggin Keyunta Dawson at DT one year.

If Polian can't draft/sign the needed linemen, then someone else deserves a shot. We're lucky that Manning is capable of playing a pretty much perfect game, because that's become what we need to get by these days.

I thought our team had turned a corner when Addai/Dom shredded teams on the ground during our SB run. Apparently not. . .

Since86
09-14-2010, 03:47 PM
Your're talking about two different issues.

The running game was thrown out the window Sunday, because of how much time Houston was eating up with their drives by keeping it on the ground. I'm sure the gameplan wasn't having Peyton throw 50+ times because that's how they want to play. That's how they had to play. They needed to score rather quickly. Houston's first drive of the second half chewed up 8+ mins. Longer the game went the more urgency they needed to have with the ball.

I'm not saying they're going to be world beaters on the ground, but they had to throw the ball to have any hope of getting back into it.

I thought Addai ran the ball effectively during the first half. The pass protection is what I thought was the biggest issue, and the biggest problems there were miscommunication or just lack of focus. Mario Williams coming off the edge untouched is unacceptable. Also, Donald Brown completely misread a couple of rushes and stepped up for inside help when the scheme clearly indicated he should have helped on the edge with Williams.

I fully expect these things to correct themselves, solely due to Peyton being behind center. He'll correct those mental mistakes because he will tell them straight out what's going to happen. They don't really even need to think.

But Mario Williams coming off the edge untouched is unacceptable. But I don't know how you can criticize them for throwing so much when the situation clearly warranted a quick passing game.

The whole game was just full of mental errors. How many passes did Garcon drop? Gonzo having his heels on the sideline on that 3rd down play?

I think the defense got punched in the jaw and didn't know how to respond. And if I'm going to jump on them for anything it would be that they looked like they just quit. They've given up big games from runners before, but nothing like they did in the second half. They just flat didn't know how to respond and it seems like they just gave up. That's the biggest disappointment, IMHO.

If that's the way they're going to play then we're in for a long season. But every single defensive player on the field Sunday has been a Colt for atleast a season (obviously not all but you know what I'm saying). That's the first time I've felt like they just up and quit. I fully expect a different defense the rest of the year. That's not them. They routinely bent last year, but always seemed to step up and make the plays when it mattered most. (The 4th down play against NE and even Sessions pick against Houston)

But again, this is the first game of the year. If this was in the middle of the season there would be more room for concern, but they've proven it year after year they will and can get the job done. There's no need to write them off after opening week. The only thing that's changed is we won't need to listen to whether or not they should go for an undefeated season. That's all.

SoupIsGood
09-14-2010, 03:53 PM
I'm not writing them off. Peyton threw 30 passes in the first half, before Houston came on with the time-chewing drives.

Our lack of a run game means that we won't be running very often, Peyton will be throwing tons, and he'll have to be nearly perfect every single game. That's awesome that Peyton can actually do it, but I'd rather watch a more balanced team.

Since86
09-14-2010, 04:31 PM
And 14 of those 30 came on their final two drives of the half, which started with 8mins left in the 2nd quarter with the team down 13-0.

Score quickly, get the ball back and score again. Pretty easy to see the logic in why. Before those last two drives Peyton threw 16 times and Addai ran 7 times. Addai had 10 total rushing attempts for 44 yards. While 4.4yd/rush isn't fantastic, it isn't bad either.

I just really can't fault the play calling considering the situation they were in. If the defense would have shown up, and gotten Houston off the field then I see where you're coming from.

Indy used Addai just like they always do, and were getting some good runs out of it. Joe had a nice run up the middle for 17, even running over a defender and staying on his feet in the process. But when it became clear the defense wasn't going to help the offense, the only solution was to air it out.

If they would have stayed with the game plan they started in the first few drives, then we would have been questioning their heart on whether or not they really wanted to win or just keep the game close.

But Peyton is by far and away their best player. They got down two scores and decided to put the ball in their best players hands. I just don't see how you can fault them for trying to get their best option to make plays.

That's the difference between Houston this year and Miami last year, IMHO. Recievers didn't make plays and lost focus by stepping out of bounds when they were open.

I don't want Peyton to throw 50 times a game either. But when the situation calls for it, he's got to do it. Sunday definately called for it.