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Peck
08-13-2004, 09:42 PM
that since Shaq is now in the east we're F#cked?:dancers:

Hicks
08-13-2004, 10:05 PM
Compare last year's Lakers to this year's Heat. Now tell me with a straight face they even measure up.

:angel:

Peck
08-13-2004, 10:51 PM
:neutral: They measure up!!!!

Kegboy
08-13-2004, 11:19 PM
So yeah, given that Peck, how do you feel about the idea of dumping Pollard for a second-round pick and cash?

DisplacedKnick
08-13-2004, 11:25 PM
I don't buy that. Detroit showed that Shaq can't beat you by himself and if you stop the rest of the team you'll be OK. They also showed that if you make him work he can't go strong night-in, night-out.

The Pacers problem? Nobody to match up with Wade.

But Miami has huge depth issues. If they can get to a solid 8-man rortation they'll be dangerous. If not, they'll be interesting. They'll be even more interesting if Shaq gets his edge back and comes to camp 40 lbs lighter. We'll see on that one.

Sollozzo
08-13-2004, 11:43 PM
Shaq in the east with Miami is much more dangerous than Shaq in Los Angeles last year for a couple reasons.

Shaq wont take such a pounding against Eastern teams

Shaq will be on a team that allows him to dominate, unlike last year's Lakers team where Kobe got alot more shots. This Heat team is just going to throw it into Shaq constantly.

Unclebuck
08-14-2004, 12:01 AM
Peck, I have been either on this forum or the IS forum for almost 4 years now and I don't believe you have ever started a thread quite like this before. When I read your post I figured someone had stolen your moniker

TheSauceMaster
08-14-2004, 02:08 AM
The East will not be soft like it was Last Year ;)

Peck
08-14-2004, 02:10 AM
So yeah, given that Peck, how do you feel about the idea of dumping Pollard for a second-round pick and cash?

Ambivilant.

On the one hand he will be useless vs. Shaq. On the other hand he is bigger & stronger than Foster who will be useless vs. Shaq.

Besides I could care less about salary's unless we do something with it. Now if you mean dump him to use the money to get Dampier, then yes.

But if you mean dump him just so the Simons can pocket more money? No.

Peck
08-14-2004, 02:12 AM
I don't buy that. Detroit showed that Shaq can't beat you by himself and if you stop the rest of the team you'll be OK. They also showed that if you make him work he can't go strong night-in, night-out.

The Pacers problem? Nobody to match up with Wade.

But Miami has huge depth issues. If they can get to a solid 8-man rortation they'll be dangerous. If not, they'll be interesting. They'll be even more interesting if Shaq gets his edge back and comes to camp 40 lbs lighter. We'll see on that one.



While in Florida I had the pleasure (if you wanna call it that) of seeing something about Shaq almost every day.

Every time I saw him he was working out & certainly he talks like he wants to prove to the world that he is still the man.

Peck
08-14-2004, 02:13 AM
Peck, I have been either on this forum or the IS forum for almost 4 years now and I don't believe you have ever started a thread quite like this before. When I read your post I figured someone had stolen your moniker

Nah, it's me.

I was just bored & wanted to stir the pot, so to speak. ;)

TheSauceMaster
08-14-2004, 02:23 AM
Peck, I have been either on this forum or the IS forum for almost 4 years now and I don't believe you have ever started a thread quite like this before. When I read your post I figured someone had stolen your moniker

Nah, it's me.

I was just bored & wanted to stir the pot, so to speak. ;)


Shame on you Peck :p:p:p

wintermute
08-14-2004, 02:43 AM
keep in mind shaq's age too. over the past few years, he's had to sit out quite a few regular season games because of injury.

this year, maybe he'll go all out in the regular season to prove people wrong, and get injured in time for the playoffs :devil:

Jose Slaughter
08-14-2004, 03:46 AM
keep in mind shaq's age too. over the past few years, he's had to sit out quite a few regular season games because of injury.

this year, maybe he'll go all out in the regular season to prove people wrong, and get injured in time for the playoffs :devil:



He has missed 15 games in each of the last 3 seasons.

naptown
08-14-2004, 04:44 PM
Shaq will not have it as easy as many people think. While the West has more big guys, the East has smaller, quicker centers who can run the floor. With guys like Foster, Big Ben, Blount, Bosh, Kwame, etc, it will be interesting to see how well Shaq holds up being forced to run the floor on D for 82 games plus the post season.

Sure he is going to dominate the half court offense, but a smart coach will have their teams fast break against Miami as much as possible.

MSA2CF
08-14-2004, 04:46 PM
I think Foster will do a superb job guarding Shaq, if given the chance.

SoupIsGood
08-14-2004, 04:57 PM
I hope we fast break a lot next year, but not just against Miami. Put the ball in Tinsley' hands, we can be a good break team if he can continue to improve.

Pig Nash
08-14-2004, 05:22 PM
thats not gonna happen with RC at the helm, SIG.

Peck
08-14-2004, 06:01 PM
I think Foster will do a superb job guarding Shaq, if given the chance.


You have got to be kidding me?

Foster can guard a lot of people, Shaq is not one of them.

There is no shame in that btw few players can, but Foster has particular trouble against strong low post players. He can't guard Magluire for example. But they don't get any bigger or stronger than Shaq.

My fear is this. Jermaine has to spend a lot of time guarding Shaq, thus totally neutralizing him. & no it's not an even trade, Shaq will still get his.

As of today the best people we have for Shaq in order are.

1. Jermaine O'Neal
2. Scot Pollard :o
3. Austin Croshere
4. Jeff Foster

Yes, IMO, Pollard & Croshere are both better at guarding strong low post players than Foster.

The problem really is though, that other than J.O. none of them I really want guarding Shaq.

MSA2CF
08-14-2004, 06:05 PM
We'll see what happens.

Hicks
08-14-2004, 06:19 PM
Peck, what players do you think can guard Shaq? How/why can they?

Unclebuck
08-14-2004, 06:53 PM
Didn't Isiah start Croshere on Shaq a few years ago in a game.

Snickers
08-14-2004, 07:05 PM
Didn't Isiah start Croshere on Shaq a few years ago in a game.



Yep, and Austin rained threes on him the whole first quarter, before he took him out. Shaq's not used to having to guard guys out on the perimeter.

And I remember Austin doing a decent job on D too.

canyoufeelit
08-14-2004, 07:08 PM
Didn't Isiah start Croshere on Shaq a few years ago in a game.



Yep, and Austin rained threes on him the whole first quarter, before he took him out. Shaq's not used to having to guard guys out on the perimeter.

And I remember Austin doing a decent job on D too.

Yeah, Austin had a lot of success with Shaq that year. He is our "ace in the hole" :laugh:

naptown
08-14-2004, 07:12 PM
Peck, what players do you think can guard Shaq? How/why can they?

Can I take this one????

Nobody. As long as he is allowed by the refs to root a stationary player out of position. Nobody.

The only person who has shown the ability to be effective against Shaq on D is Yao. His height, footwork and strength has given Shaq fits on more than one occasion. He bothers Shaq for exactly the reason I stated above....he can't just root the guy out of his way like he does every other player in the league. And when he does get good position on Yao, he still has to shoot over him. And that is something Shaq has little experience with....having to shoot over someone.

Peck
08-14-2004, 07:18 PM
Peck, what players do you think can guard Shaq? How/why can they?

First, there is nobody that can shut Shaq down. When he wants to he can just out physical anybody playing today.

However there are a few players that can give him problems.

In no particular order these players have proven that they can make Shaq work harder.

Yao Ming
Eric Dampier
Ben Wallace
Brad Miller
Jamaal Magloire
Tim Duncan

These others have shown some ability but I wouldn't want them guarding him for a game.

Jermaine O'Neal
Theo Ratliff
Kelvin Cato
Eddy Curry

Of course there are a couple of the old timers who for very very short periods of time can be affective against Shaq

Kevin Willis
Dale Davis

Again, I want to emphasize that none of the above can stop the big man.

However they do make him work.

But that does not mean just because nobody can stop him one on one that you just stand pat & hope for the best.

MSA2CF
08-14-2004, 07:31 PM
Shaq ain't all that and a bag of potato chips. :tsk:

naptown
08-14-2004, 07:58 PM
Personally, I think Shaq is the greatest big man to play the game.

There has never been that much size and pure athletic ability in a man that big before. The guy is a freak of nature.

I remember the first time I ever seen him play. His sophomore year at LSU. And while he was still very raw, I said then that would be the next GREAT big man to play the in the NBA. And now...the Greatest Big Man to ever play.

I can't stand him....but I can't deny what he his.

Peck
08-14-2004, 08:07 PM
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I don't like him either but you just can't deny what he is.

I don't think he was better than Wilt, but there is no denying that he is the best big man since Wilt was in his prime.

That's saying something because in the 80's & 90's there were some really good centers

Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Montrose ;) those are some really great centers, but none of them were as dominate as Shaq.

Doug
08-14-2004, 08:17 PM
As of today the best people we have for Shaq in order are.

1. Jermaine O'Neal
2. Scot Pollard :o
3. Austin Croshere
4. Jeff Foster

Yes, IMO, Pollard & Croshere are both better at guarding strong low post players than Foster.


[I know we've had this conversation before, but I can't help but chiming in...]

If you had posted that last summer, I would have agreed with you 100%. But, several things happened last year that moved Jeff in front of Austin for guarding power players. First and foremost, Austin has slimmed down. He is a much less muscular player now than he was perviously. While is technique is still good, he doesn't appear to me to have the strength/bulk to match up against the 5s and power 4s.

Pollard I can't really argue one way or another. He didn't get enough time to make me judge his defense one way or another. He *should* be a better defender than Foster against the power players, but he was so horrid last year...

Frankly, I thought last years Heat was an up and coming team. The Shaq trade was a "championship move". It will either vault them to the top (or very close) or backfire horribly. Time will tell. The worst thing is that they are the strongest at our two weakest defensive positions.

DisplacedKnick
08-14-2004, 08:26 PM
As for defenders, Vlade's flopism worked pretty well.

Larry Johnson was who the Knicks usually used on Shaq and he was as good as anyone except Hakeem for a couple of reasons. First, he was very strong - not as strong as Shaq but he was 6-5 and his center of gravity was so low that Shaq couldn't move him.

The second reason is that LJ was so short that when Shaq used his shoulder smash to move him, he hit him in the jaw which refs about had to call. He could still go over him and when the jump hook was working he'd still beat us up, but it worked pretty well.

I personally think that refs letting Shaq get away with a clear offensive foul move has hurt his rep more than anything. His first few years in the league they didn't let him and the guy's a friggin' athlete - he had great footwork and could outquick everyone but Hakeem and Robinson to the basket. Since refs let him smash his way to the hoop that's what he does but he didn't always.

naptown
08-14-2004, 09:04 PM
I don't think he was better than Wilt, but there is no denying that he is the best big man since Wilt was in his prime.

Wilt was before my time....I only WISH I would have got to see him play more than just a couple of games on ESPN Classic.

That reminds me of a story my oldest brother told me about how Wilt caught a lot of crap about not being enough of a team player back in the mid 60's. It pissed Wilt off.

The next three seasons he averaged 7.8, 8.6 and 8.6 assists per game. Not to mention the 24.1, 24.3 and 20.5 points per game. And don't let me forget the 24.2, 23.8 and 21.1 rebounds per game.

Yeah, ok. Wilt was the best. :blush:

ABADays
08-14-2004, 09:08 PM
if Shaq gets his edge back and comes to camp 40 lbs lighter. We'll see on that one.

I don't think Shaq could lose 40 pounds at this point in his career even if he tried. And, I don't think he will get as many calls now that he isn't a Laker.

BTW . . . anyone seen that story about how sorry Kobe was to see Shaq go? Didn't think so.

Anthem
08-14-2004, 09:11 PM
It depends on how much bulk Austin has lost. If it's Austin from 2 years ago, I'd say Austin is our best defender of Shaq.

Austin doesn't have great footwork, but against Shaq he doesn't have to. He just has to push. He can do that.

Peck
08-14-2004, 09:25 PM
I don't want to raise this issue up again, but I do want to say that this is one of the many reasons I was so opposed to the Brad Miller trade.

Brad is one of the best at playing against Shaq because Brad is so sneaky that a lot of times Shaq would foul him & get called for it. The reason Shaq took a swing at Brad is because Brad plays Shaq more physical than most players do & he is not opposed to putting a pointed elbow in Shaq's back.

Also the fact that Shaq couldn't just zone off of Brad was killer as well because if he stepped off of him Brad is almost automatic from14' & in.

Damn I hate that trade. I hate that trade worse than almost anything we've ever done.

BTW, I'm not saying that Brad is the best at playing him but I certainly think he is one of the best.

Kegboy
08-15-2004, 04:42 AM
Rim hit on it already, but no one in the history of the game played Shaq better than Hakeem in his prime. Shaq HATED playing against him, moreso after the Finals sweep. :chuckle:

Natston
08-15-2004, 05:08 PM
Ostertag, pound for pound, was probally the best from a physical standpoint at defending Shaq but he never had the passion or will to do anything...

ChicagoJ
08-15-2004, 11:47 PM
Saw my first Shaq #32 Miami jersey today...

... on a guy walking around Pacific Park on the Santa Monica Pier. :devil:

... but there were many more Kobe jerseys, go figure. :whoknows: I thought, since I was in Santa Monica, that I'd wear a Croshere jersey. Just kidding. I don't own a Croshere jersey.

I'm now returning to my reguarly scheduled vacation.