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View Full Version : Scouts’ Views: 5 guys about to make it big [Collison mentioned]



MillerTime
09-07-2010, 09:41 AM
1. Jrue Holiday(notes), PG, 76ers. He is long and talented and has really only scratched his potential. But the more he played last season, the better he got. The question has always been: How well can he run a team? And if you are going to have him as your one, you want to have a two who can be a playmaker, too. That's what they have with Evan Turner(notes).


2. Darren Collison(notes), PG, Pacers. When you look at the numbers he put up as a starter when Chris Paul(notes) was hurt, obviously, if he gets big minutes he is going to produce. The one thing that worries me, though, is whether he'll fit Jim O'Brien's system. It's not a traditional offense where the point guard simply creates and racks up assists. That's what he did in New Orleans, and O'Brien will have to adjust a bit.


3. Kevin Love(notes), PF, Timberwolves. He has gotten better as a rebounder, and he is one of the more versatile power forwards out there. He can shoot it from medium and long range, and he is a tough matchup. He has to get better defensively—if he had been healthy all of last year, he would have made some natural improvements.


4. D.J. Augustin(notes), PG, Bobcats. Someone has to be the point guard. He took some steps backward last year, but that was because Larry Brown really wanted to make Ray Felton into a pretty good point guard. And he did. Now, with Felton gone, he can do the same with Augustin. He can shoot the 3, but he has to do better at playing within Larry's system and not trying to do too much on his own.


5. J.J. Hickson(notes), PF, Cavaliers. There is a reason everybody wanted this guy at the trading deadline, but the Cavs will be happy they kept him. He is a beast inside and a great athlete. He could eventually block 2.5 to three shots per game. He will be a good rebounder, and although he might not have the smoothest offensive game, he runs the floor very well—and they're going to be a good transition team.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoNECtAq_kGTxRGsEuEvhjS8vLYF?slug=tsn-166987

Yahoo! Sports

spreedom
09-07-2010, 10:31 AM
Glad to see Collison and Kevin Love on that list. I still contend that we should do whatever we can to get Love.

MillerTime
09-07-2010, 01:58 PM
Glad to see Collison and Kevin Love on that list. I still contend that we should do whatever we can to get Love.
If we want Love, we're looking at trading Granger.

spreedom
09-07-2010, 03:33 PM
If we want Love, we're looking at trading Granger.


As unpopular as this likely is in Indy... I'd definitely do that trade. I just doubt that Minnesota would.

MillerTime
09-07-2010, 04:08 PM
As unpopular as this likely is in Indy... I'd definitely do that trade. I just doubt that Minnesota would.

You never know..Minni was ready to give Jefferson for Granger. But then again, some beleive Minni traded Jefferson because him and Love didnt get along well

spreedom
09-07-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm under the impression that Jefferson was indeed traded to make more room for Love.

HeliumFear
09-07-2010, 05:45 PM
In this thread,we overrate Kevin Love.

Lance George
09-07-2010, 07:38 PM
Just how good can Collison be? A Robin to Granger's Batman or, dare I say, even better than Danny?

xBulletproof
09-07-2010, 07:45 PM
Just how good can Collison be? A Robin to Granger's Batman or, dare I say, even better than Danny?

I would say he could be as good as Danny at some point. However playing PG he could have much more influence on the result of the game. That said, I still believe we need a 3rd player at their talent level to really compete. Be that Roy stepping up, or Paul George in a year or two, or what we do with our cap space this year. In my dream scenario, that's Roy stepping up, PG being a very good SG, and getting a player of that level at PF this offseason.

*sigh* ..... dream dream dream ....

Isaac
09-07-2010, 11:39 PM
In this thread,we overrate Kevin Love.

No we don't. Minnesota would reject Granger for Love.

bulldog
09-08-2010, 12:08 AM
I'm under the impression that Jefferson was indeed traded to make more room for Love.

I had this problem with my freshman year roommate. Jefferson must have been a c**kblock.

imawhat
09-08-2010, 01:39 AM
No we don't. Minnesota would reject Granger for Love.

No. We wouldn't offer Granger for Love.

Magic-man
09-08-2010, 03:05 AM
In this thread,we overrate Kevin Love.

No doubt!

Granger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Love
and that is coming from a non-indiana fan.... What love has done is nothing as yet, his team is still on the bottom of the ladder so his stats are padded. Similar to Curry's in GS uptempo offense.

Bball
09-08-2010, 04:20 AM
and O'Brien will have to adjust a bit.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6rlqiFZzb1qcwdpzo1_400.jpg

HeliumFear
09-08-2010, 06:03 AM
No we don't. Minnesota would reject Granger for Love.



Kahn is collecting SFs this year. There's no way he would pass Granger up.


On a serious note,Love would look like junk if he had to bare the offensive load Danny does. He doesn't do enough in other areas of the game to make up for that,either.

Granger > Love

spreedom
09-08-2010, 08:35 AM
No doubt!

Granger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Love
and that is coming from a non-indiana fan.... What love has done is nothing as yet, his team is still on the bottom of the ladder so his stats are padded. Similar to Curry's in GS uptempo offense.

The Pacers also finished out of the playoffs last season, so I wouldn't really bring up team standings. And how can your stats be padded when you're playing less than 30MPG? If Love was playing 36MPG he'd probably be leading the league in rebounding.




Kahn is collecting SFs this year. There's no way he would pass Granger up.


On a serious note,Love would look like junk if he had to bare the offensive load Danny does. He doesn't do enough in other areas of the game to make up for that,either.

Granger > Love


Right now, I agree that Danny is going to have a better season... but he's also turning 28 this sesason, whereas Love just turned 22. Which player would you rather have in three years? And I'll remind you that per-36 minutes, Kevin Love does just about everything better except scoring (and he rarely got plays called for him last season). To me, Kevin Love's game is the definition of "doing the little things." He's improving as a defender (while Danny is on the decline there) and is a great passer who boxes guys out and sets screens. Did I mention he has three-point range and generally takes good shots? There's a big difference between being a better player and being a more valuable player. To me there are only a handful of guys in the league that can bring as much offensively as Love, whereas there are probably a couple dozen guys that could score 20+ PPG if they were taking 18 FG (7 3PT) per game.


I hope I don't come across as a Danny hater, because I really love his game and go to bat for him a lot in conversations outside of the Digest, but I'd really have a guy that can put up numbers AND do the little things than a guy that puts up less well rounded numbers while doing few of the little things.

Unclebuck
09-08-2010, 09:17 AM
yeah, I've watched Kevin love play, and I am not impressed. perhaps he is one of those guys that is better the more you see him.

Speed
09-08-2010, 09:40 AM
24-25 point a game scorers don't grow on trees. Even if you adjust for the crappy team factor, he's still a 20 plus point a game scorer, easy.

If Paul George would start to reach his potential in 3 - 4 years and you could sign and trade Danny (at the end of his contract) for a guy like Love, it makes sense. At that point, it still wouldn't work for the other team due to Danny's age, probably.

As for right now, I think it would be cutting off your nose to spite your face scenario.

That said, I really do like Love, just not for Danny and not right now.

dohman
09-08-2010, 09:45 AM
depending on what george shows us this year I would be okay with trading granger for a kevin love type player.

trade high.

Doddage
09-08-2010, 10:06 AM
I would not want Kevin Love if we're going with Hibbert as a long-term starting center. Someone like Love needs a Dwight Howard type of player next to him to be most effective since a center like that could make up for Love's weaknesses.

Cactus Jax
09-08-2010, 10:10 AM
I would not want Kevin Love if we're going with Hibbert as a long-term starting center. Someone like Love needs a Dwight Howard type of player next to him to be most effective since a center like that could make up for Love's weaknesses.

Well anyone could use a Dwight Howard type player next to him and be effective.

spreedom
09-08-2010, 10:22 AM
I agree that Love and Hibbert together might not be an ideal combination, but I think both have the potential to improve to the point where they can both be average to above-average defenders. If you put them next to wings that can stay in front of their man, then you've really got something. And man, I really like the idea of having two bigs that are as good as passers as Roy and Love.

HeliumFear
09-08-2010, 03:06 PM
The Pacers also finished out of the playoffs last season, so I wouldn't really bring up team standings. And how can your stats be padded when you're playing less than 30MPG? If Love was playing 36MPG he'd probably be leading the league in rebounding.






Right now, I agree that Danny is going to have a better season... but he's also turning 28 this sesason, whereas Love just turned 22. Which player would you rather have in three years? And I'll remind you that per-36 minutes, Kevin Love does just about everything better except scoring (and he rarely got plays called for him last season). To me, Kevin Love's game is the definition of "doing the little things." He's improving as a defender (while Danny is on the decline there) and is a great passer who boxes guys out and sets screens. Did I mention he has three-point range and generally takes good shots? There's a big difference between being a better player and being a more valuable player. To me there are only a handful of guys in the league that can bring as much offensively as Love, whereas there are probably a couple dozen guys that could score 20+ PPG if they were taking 18 FG (7 3PT) per game.


I hope I don't come across as a Danny hater, because I really love his game and go to bat for him a lot in conversations outside of the Digest, but I'd really have a guy that can put up numbers AND do the little things than a guy that puts up less well rounded numbers while doing few of the little things.

You kinda make it sound like Danny is some chucker. I actually just read another post in another forum about this: "I think people tend to look at his FG percentage which was 44.7 and 42.8 last two years and assume he is just a chucker. The truth is he just takes a lot of threes and he converts them at a good enough rate to make him efficient. He averaged 26 points on 58 percent true shooting last year and 24 points on 56.4 percent true shooting. Not to imply that he is as good as them at scoring but both those percentages were better than what Melo, Kobe and Wade posted during those years." (Thanks to Ninja Sheppard of the GameFAQs.com S&R NBA board)

Not everyone could score an efficient 20+ PPG,but Danny does a good job of it.

Kevin Love can do "the little things". Is that really worth giving up a star? It's not.

MLB007
09-08-2010, 03:59 PM
Danny IS a chucker now. He made it official with his "I score the ball, that's what I do" comment a few weeks ago.
His game has shown it the past 2 years.
His defense has become invisible and he doesn't rebound or block shots 1/2 as well as he used to.
This team will never go anywhere with Danny scoring 25pts on 20 shots per game.
He's not a "Star".
He's simply the closest thing we have to one, so he gets the shots.
He COULD be the all around "star" type player if he had the attitude correct.
But it appears he's become another NBA mentality victim.
"gotta score to be the man"........

That role will soon pass to Roy as he will be a more efficient scorer with better percentages and better offensive rebound opportunities for himself and others.
IF Danny can man up to the affront to his manhood that not being "the man" with the ball at he end of the game, he COULD still become a star with 18ppg, 9 rebounds and 2 blocks.
;)

Hicks
09-08-2010, 04:00 PM
Define chucker. Distinguish between chucker and scorer.

MyFavMartin
09-08-2010, 04:07 PM
Kahn is collecting SFs this year. There's no way he would pass Granger up.




:laugh:

MLB007
09-08-2010, 04:15 PM
hmmm, not sure you'll find that anywhere.
To ME a chucker is a slightly derogatory term for an inefficient scorer.
One who gets his points, but takes a lot of shots to do it.
There are a few very efficient scorers out there.
They make their teams better with their scoring and they do it on a minimum of shots so the other players on the team are more involved because they know they have a chance to handle the ball.
A Chucker is one who isn't really that caliber of scorer, but he's the best his teams got so he gets the ball in the crunch situation.
just my definition.

Drewtone
09-08-2010, 04:20 PM
Define chucker. Distinguish between chucker and scorer.

Here is my sense of the distinction using the same player:

scorer = Danny year before last

chucker = Danny with his 2009-2010 shot selection (including contested shots with others open, 3's randomly early in the shot clock, unnecessarily 'tough' shot, et cetera and so on).

MyFavMartin
09-08-2010, 04:23 PM
Any of you guys think that with Big Boy Roy's commitment to hard work in the low post (e.g., improving fouling situation, post moves, Walton) and conditioning (body fat at 10%) that he should be mentioned in the article?

I really think Collison+DG+Roy is going to be a monster this year and if I were Indy, I'd have season tickets yesterday.

Throw in a healthy Tyler (fingers-crossed) and off-dopeRush/George... :drool:

spreedom
09-08-2010, 05:28 PM
You kinda make it sound like Danny is some chucker. I actually just read another post in another forum about this: "I think people tend to look at his FG percentage which was 44.7 and 42.8 last two years and assume he is just a chucker. The truth is he just takes a lot of threes and he converts them at a good enough rate to make him efficient. He averaged 26 points on 58 percent true shooting last year and 24 points on 56.4 percent true shooting. Not to imply that he is as good as them at scoring but both those percentages were better than what Melo, Kobe and Wade posted during those years." (Thanks to Ninja Sheppard of the GameFAQs.com S&R NBA board)

Not everyone could score an efficient 20+ PPG,but Danny does a good job of it.

Kevin Love can do "the little things". Is that really worth giving up a star? It's not.


A guy that averages 14/11/2.5 WHILE doing "the little things" is rare... sign me up for trades like that all day.

90'sNBARocked
09-08-2010, 05:37 PM
A guy that averages 14/11/2.5 WHILE doing "the little things" is rare... sign me up for trades like that all day.

No doubt

Love is a stud, maybe because he doesnt have that primadonna attitude he is not considered "star material"

Anthem
09-08-2010, 06:41 PM
If you suddenly decide you're willing to move Granger, I'd think you'd have a lot of takers. Lots of teams could put together a decent package, not just Minny.

tsm612
09-08-2010, 07:01 PM
If you suddenly decide you're willing to move Granger, I'd think you'd have a lot of takers. Lots of teams could put together a decent package, not just Minny.

Would Atlanta be interested in Granger? Would anyone here be interested in a trade involving Granger and Horford?

spreedom
09-08-2010, 09:21 PM
Would Atlanta be interested in Granger? Would anyone here be interested in a trade involving Granger and Horford?

I doubt Atlanta would be interested, seeing how much Danny's game duplicates Joe and Josh down there...

xBulletproof
09-08-2010, 09:24 PM
I doubt Atlanta would be interested, seeing how much Danny's game duplicates Joe and Josh down there...

..... and Josh?

Josh ... Smith? Danny plays a similar game to ... Josh Smith? :hmm:

Have you ever seen the said player ... play?

Dece
09-08-2010, 09:36 PM
Danny was a chucker last year, and I intend the negative connotation. If you won't take my word for it, go check out T-bird's player analysis of Danny. Even our favorite resident coach talked about his terrible shot selection, firing up 3's with no sense of the game situation.

Trophy
09-08-2010, 09:37 PM
We're not trading Danny.

I don't know why a lot of people want to.

Natston
09-08-2010, 09:52 PM
We're not trading Danny.

I don't know why a lot of people want to.

I would do anything for Love, but I won't do that...

tsm612
09-08-2010, 10:26 PM
We're not trading Danny.

I don't know why a lot of people want to.

I never said that I wanted to. I just think that a trade bringing in Horford would be intriguing, considering that there aren't many good power forwards in the NBA and small forwards are less important and easier to find. Also, if Paul George impresses this year and we think he could be at Danny's level or better (as I do) in the future, you consider using Danny's value to land one of those few good power forwards.

You could have a lineup of:

Collison
? (free agent we spend our cap space on)
George
Horford
Hibbert

MLB007
09-10-2010, 02:36 PM
Any of you guys think that with Big Boy Roy's commitment to hard work in the low post (e.g., improving fouling situation, post moves, Walton) and conditioning (body fat at 10%) that he should be mentioned in the article?

I really think Collison+DG+Roy is going to be a monster this year and if I were Indy, I'd have season tickets yesterday.

Throw in a healthy Tyler (fingers-crossed) and off-dopeRush/George... :drool:

Yes, some of us see that potential.
But until they do something that's all it is.
Crossing fingers.......

MLB007
09-10-2010, 02:40 PM
We're not trading Danny.

I don't know why a lot of people want to.

I don't think a lot of people "want" to.
Talking about his game and being unhappy that he is less than I think he could be doesn't mean I want to trade him.
He's still the best player on this team.
He's a classy guy and a hard worker and has been a very clean face of the Pacers.
And IF he understands that we have OTHER weapons now, and he can subordinate his shooting some and put some of that energy saved into playing defense, rebounding and blocking shots. Again.
He can be an all star that way.
And a more respected one.
He can be the scoring guy (and not a lot else) until Roy takes that job over.
Average glossy scoring numbers.
Or he can be the unquestioned leader of this team with his all around play and leadership.
Understanding that Roy can score. Darren can score. Brandon can score. Dunleavy can score. Hansbrough can score. PG will score (maybe hugely so someday)
HE"S GOT HELP NOW!
I think this is the year for him to chose his path.

I would go so far as to say that there might be no more clear indicator of the success or failure of this team than what happens to Dannys numbers.
If he's shooting (and scoring) as much, we are probably not much better than last year.
If his scoring is down, but his % is up. And his rebounding and blocked shots are up.
This team is probably in the playoffs.
JMO :)