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speakout4
08-31-2010, 07:30 PM
One guy has to go to appease the fans who aren't happy with both Lance and Rush. The guy who goes saves the other and allows Bird the luxury of cleaning up the present mess. The remaining miscreant gets to be publicly rehabbed.

Who does Bird sacrifice and why?

MillerTime
08-31-2010, 07:58 PM
One guy has to go to appease the fans who aren't happy with both Lance and Rush. The guy who goes saves the other and allows Bird the luxury of cleaning up the present mess. The remaining miscreant gets to be publicly rehabbed.

Who does Bird sacrifice and why?

I think it might be too early to tell right now. It seems that you have made the inference that George is our future starting SG. I think we should wait and see how their rookie season goes through. Theres no harm in keeping both Rush and Lance and having extreme depth in SG/SF.

BRushWithDeath
08-31-2010, 07:59 PM
Neither.

Sookie
08-31-2010, 08:03 PM
Lance.

1. Fans and teammates will have an easier time forgiving a pot head than a domestic abuser.
2. Lance has a legit shot of going to jail, Rush does not.
3. Lance has "potential" Rush is at least an adequat NBA player. Both have potential, and quite frankly Rush has a better chance at reaching his. (That's saying something isn't it..)
4. Lance supposedly has repeated issues with women (the sexual assault case, this, and supposedly he's hit his GF before..) Brandon clearly repeatedly smokes. There's a very good shot both will do their "crime" again. One again, pothead is clearly the lesser of two evils.

really easy choice, actually.

Psyren
08-31-2010, 08:21 PM
My guess is, if it's one of those 2, it'll likely be Lance.

However, my gut feeling is saying Solo just because he's literally useless.

pwee31
08-31-2010, 08:23 PM
I think they'll both go. I think you let the Lance situation play out to see the verdict, but I still think regardless they cut ties with him.

I think that Rush will be moved as well. He has already been on the block in the past, and I felt was already on thin ice. I think the suspension is the icing on the cake.

The only thing helping both of these guys, is I believe Bird learned from the GS trade and won't take a bad deal just to get rid of these guys. I think he'll remain patient, but still get a solid deal done. May not be as much talent coming back, but it won't be a bad contract either.

I keep thinking a Rudy Fernandez, but it seems Portland wants a young big back in return since they were asking Chicago for Taj Gibson.

Only time will tell, but I think both will be gone

BlueNGold
08-31-2010, 09:20 PM
It's just a matter of time before Lance is gone. The only question is whether the Pacers keep Rush. I think I'd keep Rush until we have enough depth to move him. I don't consider D Jones depth. Dun needs to be healthy to be depth. George needs to show he can play.

I think we better wait until the smoke clears before we send Rush packing...

MrHale
08-31-2010, 09:45 PM
some people overreact, i bet none of em leave

beast23
08-31-2010, 10:00 PM
One guy has to go to appease the fans who aren't happy with both Lance and Rush. The guy who goes saves the other and allows Bird the luxury of cleaning up the present mess. The remaining miscreant gets to be publicly rehabbed.

Who does Bird sacrifice and why?
First off, I don't think the disposition of one has anything at all to do with the disposition of the other.

Lance will not be dropped unless the Pacers are forced to drop him. He looked great in preseason and shows a ton of promise. If he admits to guilt in any way or is convicted, he's gone. I don't think there is any doubt about that at all. If he is not convicted or charges are somehow dropped, then it's anybody's guess what might happen.

If Lance somehow survives, he may or may not prove himself capable of being our solution at SG. So, if he is still with the team by the end of the season, then he will get a second year to prove himself... at least until a guilty verdict would dictate otherwise. I personally agree with others that Europe might be in his best interest, even if not convicted.

As for Rush, previous handling of similar situations with the Pacers would indicate that they will try pretty hard to include him in a trade. Since he has value, the Pacers won't just toss him to the wind. They will attempt to use him to get a decent SG or PF in return. Regardless, I think Rush is eventually gone anyway because he has not and will not prove himself to be a starting SG for a contending team.

BlueNGold
08-31-2010, 10:04 PM
This joint is going to go crazy when Paul George starts lighting it up. We will all be on cloud nine for sure. There is no reason to search through the weeds when there is already a smoking hot replacement for Rush available sitting on the pot...one that is likely to shoot the 3 at an even better clip.

DGPR
08-31-2010, 10:09 PM
This joint is going to go crazy when Paul George starts lighting it up. We will all be on cloud nine for sure. There is no reason to search through the weeds when there is already a smoking hot replacement for Rush available sitting on the pot...one that is likely to shoot the 3 at an even better clip.


All of this.

IndyHoosier
08-31-2010, 10:23 PM
This joint is going to go crazy when Paul George starts lighting it up. We will all be on cloud nine for sure. There is no reason to search through the weeds when there is already a smoking hot replacement for Rush available sitting on the pot...one that is likely to shoot the 3 at an even better clip.

He will probably average .420 from three point range this season ;)

On a side note, Rush averaged .423 fg (almost there), but he did average 4.20 rebounds!!!!

beast23
08-31-2010, 10:31 PM
This joint is going to go crazy when Paul George starts lighting it up. We will all be on cloud nine for sure. There is no reason to search through the weeds when there is already a smoking hot replacement for Rush available sitting on the pot...one that is likely to shoot the 3 at an even better clip.Now, I don't want anyone to think that I am a Rush fan, because I am not. His lack of aggression as a starting SG drives me batty.

But, do you really think that George is going to charge straight out of the gate as a rookie, and is going to "shoot the 3 at an even better clip" <THAN Rush>?

You see that's a problem. I don't want him shooting them at a better clip. But I wouldn't mind him making them at a better percentage. Since Rush made 41% of his threes last season, I doubt George can do as you wish.

He's a rookie and isn't likely to prove himself to be the where all - end all this season. The most we can hope for is that he shows "promise" as a possible solution if he keeps developing.

Seems like you've already coronated him as King George. He is not likely to be our solution for our present Lance-Rush problems.

BlueNGold
08-31-2010, 10:36 PM
Now, I don't want anyone to think that I am a Rush fan, because I am not. His lack of aggression as a starting SG drives me batty.

But, do you really think that George is going to charge straight out of the gate as a rookie, and is going to "shoot the 3 at an even better clip" <THAN Rush>?

You see that's a problem. I don't want him shooting them at a better clip. But I wouldn't mind him making them at a better percentage. Since Rush made 41% of his threes last season, I doubt George can do as you wish.

He's a rookie and isn't likely to prove himself to be the where all - end all this season. The most we can hope for is that he shows "promise" as a possible solution if he keeps developing.

Seems like you've already coronated him as King George. He is not likely to be our solution for our present Lance-Rush problems.

Hmmm. I guess I may be a little too high on him. I really feel like such a dope.

IndyHoosier
08-31-2010, 10:44 PM
I don't think he understands your DOPEY sarcasm of the events that UNROLLED for Rush last week!

IndyHoosier
08-31-2010, 10:45 PM
I am FIRED UP for this season!

BlueNGold
08-31-2010, 10:46 PM
He will probably average .420 from three point range this season ;)

On a side note, Rush averaged .423 fg (almost there), but he did average 4.20 rebounds!!!!

I bet David Harrison averaged 4.20 fouls, 4.20 blocks and 4.20 boards a game. His IQ I believe was also 4.20.

Edit: I'm glad we are keeping this all about basketball.

IndyHoosier
08-31-2010, 10:55 PM
I bet David Harrison averaged 4.20 fouls, 4.20 blocks and 4.20 boards a game. His IQ I believe was also 4.20.

Edit: I'm glad we are keeping this all about basketball.

I couldn't find any stats on fouls or IQ, but all of your other guesses were HIGH.

BlueNGold
08-31-2010, 11:00 PM
I couldn't find any stats on fouls or IQ, but all of your other guesses were HIGH.

So, stone me. I read it in the papers. In any event, I am out of this joint.

DGPR
08-31-2010, 11:25 PM
So, stone me. I read it in the papers. In any event, I am out of this joint.


Try not to be so blunt next time.

DaveP63
09-01-2010, 07:42 AM
Both will roll their way out the door into the high weeds.

xtacy
09-01-2010, 07:50 AM
i hope both.

Mr_Smith
09-01-2010, 07:56 AM
Goodbye Lance....as for Brandon, how many players in the NBA smoke weed?? So to sum it up.....Goodbye Lance

Trophy
09-01-2010, 08:18 AM
What Brandon did wasn't too bad to kick him off the team, IMO so he'll be staying.

Lance I think may be cut, unless he speaks with Bird and is willing or sounds willing to grow up.

If both guys remain Pacers, then I think Solomon wil be waived or traded for a future 2nd round pick from someone giving us the space to sign Magnum.

McKeyFan
09-01-2010, 08:40 AM
Try not to be so blunt next time.

Doo be diplomatic.

ksuttonjr76
09-01-2010, 09:20 AM
If Indiana makes a PR move, then Lance will be gone. If makes Indiana a basketball move, then both players will be here. IMHO, Rush will be around for a while. Rush has solid numbers for SG who doesn't have any plays designed for him (Hibbert is pretty much in that same boat). If Paul George lives up to the hype, then Rush would be excellent 6th man behind Paul George if we decided to go with a future starting 5 of...

Collison
George
Granger
Hansbrough/McRoberts
Hibbert

Truth be told, if Dunleavy returns to form, I can see Indiana resigning him to be the backup to Granger then trading D. Jones.

pizza guy
09-01-2010, 09:31 AM
This thread has been great, and I don't want to harsh anyone's mellow, but I think it's either both of them or neither of them. I can see Lance getting cut, or Bird hanging onto those high hopes. Rush has had some time here to show that he's a capable player, and his crime wasn't something that will give too many teams pause when you start talking trade. Throw in Rush with another expiring and Team X sees him as potential talent with minimal risk.

I hope both guys are able to put this stuff behind them and focus on playing basketball, because I do believe they're both talented and they can both play significant rolls on this team. Rush may be chronically lethargic on the court, but maybe the addition of Collison will be enough to take Rush's game higher. Lance may be raw and unproven, but if he can step up his game to the NBA level, he'll give the Pacers a real push toward knocking out their goals of making the playoffs and beating weaker teams.

--pizza

Tom White
09-01-2010, 09:52 AM
It's just a matter of time before Lance is gone. The only question is whether the Pacers keep Rush. I think I'd keep Rush until we have enough depth to move him. I don't consider D Jones depth. Dun needs to be healthy to be depth. George needs to show he can play.

I think we better wait until the smoke clears before we send Rush packing...

Ha! Please tell me you didn't say that!

Tom White
09-01-2010, 09:55 AM
This joint is going to go crazy when Paul George starts lighting it up. We will all be on cloud nine for sure. There is no reason to search through the weeds when there is already a smoking hot replacement for Rush available sitting on the pot...one that is likely to shoot the 3 at an even better clip.

OK, now you're just trying too hard.

Brad8888
09-01-2010, 10:04 AM
OK, now you're just trying too hard.

Dude...




Whoa...






You're harshing his mellow, man...





Like, stop...


Whoa...

MLB007
09-01-2010, 10:07 AM
One guy has to go to appease the fans who aren't happy with both Lance and Rush. The guy who goes saves the other and allows Bird the luxury of cleaning up the present mess. The remaining miscreant gets to be publicly rehabbed.

Who does Bird sacrifice and why?

Rush is a decision.
Lance is a no brainer. If charged (?) he's gone.
Not like there's anything comparable in their transgressions.

MLB007
09-01-2010, 10:09 AM
some people overreact, i bet none of em leave

Right, cuz beating up a woman and slamming her head into a step is just normal everyday bad boy stuff.
Right? :eek: :censored:

MLB007
09-01-2010, 10:11 AM
This joint is going to go crazy when Paul George starts lighting it up. We will all be on cloud nine for sure. There is no reason to search through the weeds when there is already a smoking hot replacement for Rush available sitting on the pot...one that is likely to shoot the 3 at an even better clip.

We don't know that he can play the 2 spot effectively.

MLB007
09-01-2010, 10:13 AM
Ha! Please tell me you didn't say that!

Well it does appear that his problem may be chronic.

Psyren
09-01-2010, 10:48 AM
The wittiness in this thread is unbelievable.

Justin Tyme
09-01-2010, 10:51 AM
I don't see it as an either or, but as a both will be gone. I don't see Bird panicing on Rush, but taking his time to find a good deal to trade Rush. Rush either won't start the season as a Pacer, or he'll be gone by the trade deadline.

In Stephenson case, I'd just rather Bird cut him to make room for Rolle. Eat the salary and just be done with it. No reason to let Stephenson put the Pacers in another PR nightmare with his distorted view towards the opposite sex just b/c of "possible potential." Possible potential and a buck will get you a cup of coffee, and at the same time it can cost Herb Simons millions in another PR nightmare that the Pacers can ill afford.

naptownmenace
09-01-2010, 11:35 AM
Pacers president Larry Bird said in a statement that the organization would support Rush.

"We have been made aware that Brandon Rush has been suspended for violating the NBA's anti-drug policy," Bird said. "We will do what we can to provide Brandon help going forward."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5503818&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

The Pacers can't cut Rush and I doubt anyone will be willing to trade for him right now. The league has handed out the punishment and the Pacers can't do anything else about it.

I still have a feeling that Lance's case will be dropped eventually and he'll probably get a 5 game suspension from the league office as well. Then the Pacers will be stuck with either cutting him and still paying him for 2 seasons or keeping him.

I'm guessing both players will be on the Pacers roster at the opening of the NBA season.

woowoo
09-01-2010, 01:05 PM
We do not know what went down between LS and his girl, we do know that Brandon has failed multiple drug tests.... So who really has the issue here?

A 19 year old who just signed a pro contract and is new to the dangers of the NBA life or the vet who knows what the score is? Brandon just totally chit on Bird, the ownership, the city, and his team mates. Lance is just beginning his journey, this could be the best thing to ever happen to him.

I hope the Pacers stick with Lance, he is young and can change.... As far as Rush.... I think it is obvious he has NO intention of trying to change.

What Lance did was totally uncalled for, but he is still a kid. I know I am not perfect and I am not proud of many things I have done in the past.

If a man knows he can be dropped for a UA at any time and still "chooses" to smoke then he has no respect for his job or employer. It simply makes me sick this idiot would make a conscious decision to get high. Lance got caught up in a "heat of the moment" situation and blew it.

Which really is worse?

90'sNBARocked
09-01-2010, 01:27 PM
The only thing helping both of these guys, is I believe Bird learned from the GS trade and won't take a bad deal just to get rid of these guys.

Amen brother!

No need to panic, I think Bord has done a fantastic job of keeping things very low key , to the point that Lance is not even a topic of discussion. I think normally you would have heard Bird speak on it more, and more from Lance

I hope im not wrong in saying this but I really really hope Lance is given a chance to redeem himself, with the Pacers

CableKC
09-01-2010, 01:37 PM
We do not know what went down between LS and his girl, we do know that Brandon has failed multiple drug tests.... So who really has the issue here?

A 19 year old who just signed a pro contract and is new to the dangers of the NBA life or the vet who knows what the score is? Brandon just totally chit on Bird, the ownership, the city, and his team mates. Lance is just beginning his journey, this could be the best thing to ever happen to him.

I hope the Pacers stick with Lance, he is young and can change.... As far as Rush.... I think it is obvious he has NO intention of trying to change.

What Lance did was totally uncalled for, but he is still a kid. I know I am not perfect and I am not proud of many things I have done in the past.

If a man knows he can be dropped for a UA at any time and still "chooses" to smoke then he has no respect for his job or employer. It simply makes me sick this idiot would make a conscious decision to get high. Lance got caught up in a "heat of the moment" situation and blew it.

Which really is worse?
I have a whole response brewing in my head, but I need to do some work first.

For now, I'm just going to say that I can see that this particular post will generate some rather "stern" responses.

Sookie
09-01-2010, 01:59 PM
Okay, domestic violence is NOT a maturity issue. It's not what you can "grow up" from. It's a deep seated emmotional issue, and quite frankly a character issue. I am of the opinion that if guilty, he needs to be punished for what he did, for the sake of punishing. I'm not giving a person who committed such an awful act leeway because he can dribble a basketball. That's just disgusting. If he does his time, and makes a complete turnaround, and proves (hasn't done anything in years, makes a sincere effort to being to respect women..as in I'd suggest women's studies classes and the like) then okay, give him another shot. But that's a LONG way to go. And he won't be a "kid" by then.

A guy who smokes too much pot. THAT's A MATURITY issue.

What Brandon did (repeatedly) was stupid, what Lance did was terrible.

And as I said, more than likely, both will commit their crimes again. And I know I'd rather have the pot head. Not to mention, Rush will always be easy to trade, most teams have plenty of potheads. Lance..not so much. Get what you can for him now, or cut him. Rush..give him his chance, if the pot interfers with his job, then trade him. He's talanted, someone will take him. Most teams do not view the pot smoking as a big deal. But, unless the girl comes out and says "I made it up" the Pacers would be smart not to have Lance on the team by the time the season starts.

MLB007
09-01-2010, 03:00 PM
We do not know what went down between LS and his girl, we do know that Brandon has failed multiple drug tests.... So who really has the issue here?

A 19 year old who just signed a pro contract and is new to the dangers of the NBA life or the vet who knows what the score is? Brandon just totally chit on Bird, the ownership, the city, and his team mates. Lance is just beginning his journey, this could be the best thing to ever happen to him.

I hope the Pacers stick with Lance, he is young and can change.... As far as Rush.... I think it is obvious he has NO intention of trying to change.

What Lance did was totally uncalled for, but he is still a kid. I know I am not perfect and I am not proud of many things I have done in the past.

If a man knows he can be dropped for a UA at any time and still "chooses" to smoke then he has no respect for his job or employer. It simply makes me sick this idiot would make a conscious decision to get high. Lance got caught up in a "heat of the moment" situation and blew it.

Which really is worse?

Blowing a fattie in the off season OR beating up a woman??

Ummm, Lance's........

pacer4ever
09-01-2010, 03:50 PM
Now, I don't want anyone to think that I am a Rush fan, because I am not. His lack of aggression as a starting SG drives me batty.

But, do you really think that George is going to charge straight out of the gate as a rookie, and is going to "shoot the 3 at an even better clip" <THAN Rush>?

You see that's a problem. I don't want him shooting them at a better clip. But I wouldn't mind him making them at a better percentage. Since Rush made 41% of his threes last season, I doubt George can do as you wish.

He's a rookie and isn't likely to prove himself to be the where all - end all this season. The most we can hope for is that he shows "promise" as a possible solution if he keeps developing.

Seems like you've already coronated him as King George. He is not likely to be our solution for our present Lance-Rush problems.

he is a stud he will be good his rookie year and become the starter book it! this guy is a stud and will be an all star in 3 yrs and be good right away he dribbles to much but that will be fixes cause he didnt have a good PG in colldg trust me this guy is gonna light it up he is 2much4u

beast23
09-01-2010, 05:34 PM
he is a stud he will be good his rookie year and become the starter book it! this guy is a stud and will be an all star in 3 yrs and be good right away he dribbles to much but that will be fixes cause he didnt have a good PG in colldg trust me this guy is gonna light it up he is 2much4uSeems to me like you need to partake of some solid food. You are obviously living off of a steady diet of Kool-Aid.

But, I have to admit that, being a fellow Pacer fan, drinking the Kool-Aid is not always a bad thing. And, as long as JOB's name is not spoken when it is passed, I suppose I could bear it if you passed a little on to me.

P.S. With your 15 thoughts in a single sentence, please stick to Kool-Aid. I'd hate to see what you might offer if you hit the coffee.

CableKC
09-01-2010, 05:56 PM
Okay, domestic violence is NOT a maturity issue. It's not what you can "grow up" from. It's a deep seated emmotional issue, and quite frankly a character issue. I am of the opinion that if guilty, he needs to be punished for what he did, for the sake of punishing. I'm not giving a person who committed such an awful act leeway because he can dribble a basketball. That's just disgusting. If he does his time, and makes a complete turnaround, and proves (hasn't done anything in years, makes a sincere effort to being to respect women..as in I'd suggest women's studies classes and the like) then okay, give him another shot. But that's a LONG way to go. And he won't be a "kid" by then.

A guy who smokes too much pot. THAT's A MATURITY issue.

What Brandon did (repeatedly) was stupid, what Lance did was terrible.

And as I said, more than likely, both will commit their crimes again. And I know I'd rather have the pot head. Not to mention, Rush will always be easy to trade, most teams have plenty of potheads. Lance..not so much. Get what you can for him now, or cut him. Rush..give him his chance, if the pot interfers with his job, then trade him. He's talanted, someone will take him. Most teams do not view the pot smoking as a big deal. But, unless the girl comes out and says "I made it up" the Pacers would be smart not to have Lance on the team by the time the season starts.
+1. I'm going to save most of you from a long rant and just say that I agree with what Sookie says.

Bottom line is that it's easier to cut a rookie 2nd rounder that is owed rounghly 800k a year. Right now, it's all about PR damage control. I hate that we'll lose on the potential that Lance has....but if the allegations are true....then this kid is "damaged goods".

IF the allegations are true, then I could care less about whatever his potential is. This goes back to what the FO has been preaching since the Brawl and Off court incidents....it was unacceptable for them over the last 3-4 years....it should be unacceptable for them now.

speakout4
09-01-2010, 08:50 PM
Rush is a decision.
Lance is a no brainer. If charged (?) he's gone.
Not like there's anything comparable in their transgressions.
Agree. Rush is a decision but I have as much hope that he will turn it around while he still is young enough to play ball as Lance learning to control his temper.

I do believe that both can get there but they will be way past their primes.

speakout4
09-01-2010, 08:55 PM
A guy who smokes too much pot. THAT's A MATURITY issue.

What Brandon did (repeatedly) was stupid, what Lance did was terrible.

It's a character issue for Brandon too because he did it repeatedly, did not care enough about his team to give his best effort, and let down the people who supported him and paid his salary.

Eleazar
09-01-2010, 09:10 PM
It's a character issue for Brandon too because he did it repeatedly, did not care enough about his team to give his best effort, and let down the people who supported him and paid his salary.

Not necessarily. He could just have a strong social and political belief that there is nothing wrong with smoking pot. The question then is he mature enough to say that even though he has a strong belief the people he works for and with don't and sometimes you have to live by other peoples rules.

Sookie
09-01-2010, 09:12 PM
It's a character issue for Brandon too because he did it repeatedly, did not care enough about his team to give his best effort, and let down the people who supported him and paid his salary.

Not nearly in the same way.

As I said, it's stupid vs horrible

MLB007
09-01-2010, 09:18 PM
It's a character issue for Brandon too because he did it repeatedly, did not care enough about his team to give his best effort, and let down the people who supported him and paid his salary.

Where does "did not care enough about his team to give his best effort" come from?

MLB007
09-01-2010, 09:21 PM
Not nearly in the same way.

As I said, it's stupid vs horrible

That really is a very good way of putting the situations. :applaud:

speakout4
09-01-2010, 09:28 PM
Where does "did not care enough about his team to give his best effort" come from?
Faded on offense as if he were not there.
Let down the people who supported him by getting caught 3 times in two years. You call that caring about his team?
You think that someone can smoke so frequently can give a best effort the next day as if this stuff clears 100% from his body? Possibly he even played under the influence?
He was tested 8 times (4 mandatory tests per season) and was caught 3 times.

A number of pacer fans just sensed that there was something "not there" about Brandon. Come to your own conclusions.

speakout4
09-01-2010, 09:32 PM
Not nearly in the same way.

As I said, it's stupid vs horrible
As I said it's still a character issue.

vnzla81
09-01-2010, 09:41 PM
Dunleavy, Jones and Posey

pizza guy
09-01-2010, 09:47 PM
Dunleavy, Jones and Posey, JO'B

*fixed

CableKC
09-02-2010, 03:06 AM
Faded on offense as if he were not there.
Let down the people who supported him by getting caught 3 times in two years. You call that caring about his team?
You think that someone can smoke so frequently can give a best effort the next day as if this stuff clears 100% from his body? Possibly he even played under the influence?
He was tested 8 times (4 mandatory tests per season) and was caught 3 times.

A number of pacer fans just sensed that there was something "not there" about Brandon. Come to your own conclusions.
I don't get the sense that Sookie is suggesting that what BRush did was excuseable nor acceptable as he did let his fans/team/FO down. Both could be considered "character flaws" that could be grounds for "dismissal" under the rather strict PR guidelines that the Pacers have......but what Sookie is trying to say is that there clearly are differing degrees of what BRush did compared to what Lance ( assuming that it's true ) did.