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View Full Version : So now is 2 guard the new priority?



MLB007
08-27-2010, 03:48 PM
While I don't think they give on Brandon for this, I could be wrong. If so, what then?
We have a lot of "wings", but really all are old school 3's. None of them except maybe Dahntay are real 2's. And he doesn't give you the outside threat you want ideally.

Dunleavy (healthy) give you the offense you want, but cant' really guard 2's.

Paul MIGHT be able to play it, but i have the feeling he's a real 3 as well. I also think that with his length and hops that you REALLY would like him in the paint as much as possible. he showed quick hands and lets not forget that he was playing inside until the last 2 years! Maybe he has some post game?!!

IF George shows game to require minutes, then our front line goes Roy/Danny/Paul at least a good chunk of games. With Darren added that team COULD play a Dahntay and still have plenty of shooters. hmmmm

The ideal would be Paul lights it up and is quick enough to guard 2's. :eek:

And Tyler is healthy and locks down the 4.

THEN WTH do we do with all that $$$???? :)

Hicks
08-27-2010, 03:50 PM
PF is still the priority. More important position, and harder to find than a SG.

Psyren
08-27-2010, 03:51 PM
I'd still say PF. We've still got Dunleavy, Dahntay and Paul George. Not to mention you could throw Posey in if need be.

SMosley21
08-27-2010, 03:53 PM
No. We have a glutton of wing players. Paul George, Mike Dunleavy, Dahntay Jones can easily give us what we need from the SG position, considering we have an All-Star at the SF spot and a rising star at the PG spot. All we need from the SG spot is consistency, something that Rush never provided anyway.

Noodle
08-27-2010, 03:57 PM
Lord have mercy, Brandon is still gonna start people. The sky cannot fall down. Get your minds out of the weeds.

Speed
08-27-2010, 03:58 PM
I'd rather just give Paul George some baptism by fire than worry about another 2 guard, right now.

Wing is the one position that could take a hit like this.

CableKC
08-27-2010, 04:02 PM
As most have said...PF is the priority. However, I always thought that after PG and PF....if we really wanted to look at our Starting SG position that I always thought that BRush was a Starter on a Lottery Team...but ( at best ) a 6th Man or 1st GF off the bench on a Playoff Caliber Team ( hence my trade suggestions to try to get Rip from the Pistons ).

If the opportunity arises where we can get a solid Starting caliber SG and it costs us an Expiring+BRush+Solo....I'd take it unless there was a comprable deal for a Starting Caliber PF ( which I do not think is a realistic option this season ).

SMosley21
08-27-2010, 04:03 PM
I'd rather just give Paul George some baptism by fire than worry about another 2 guard, right now.

Wing is the one position that could take a hit like this.

Even before the Rush suspension, I was hoping that PG would be our starting 2-guard. This just makes that a little more likely to happen.

Sookie
08-27-2010, 04:09 PM
No, Dunleavy, D.Jones, and Posey can all play there realistically, and Jimmy will play AJ there too (or heck, TJ). That's plenty..We've got Hans and McBob..one the coach won't play and one that might not be able to play, at PF, and Granger, whose an SF that Jimmy will play at the PF position..(that feels redundant..)

Unclebuck
08-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Lord have mercy, Brandon is still gonna start people. The sky cannot fall down. Get your minds out of the weeds.

He won't the first 5 games, we know that for sure

Trophy
08-27-2010, 04:21 PM
We have enough at 2.

ChristianDudley
08-27-2010, 04:36 PM
Power forward is still the position that needs to be filled the most out of any position for us right now. As far as possible 2s goes with what we currently have, we have a lot of potential/worthy players of that position other than Brandon--Dahntay, Dunleavy, Paul George (has said he wants to be a 2), and James Posey are all capable starting 2s. We're loaded with wings right now, and it's looking like a good thing with the way things have been going lately (Rush & Stephenson's off-court troubles).

sportfireman
08-27-2010, 04:37 PM
Plus with JOB as our coach our PG's can play the 2 as well.........we need to find a PF.

Brad8888
08-27-2010, 05:19 PM
Another step towards reinstatement into the starting small ball lineup for TJ Ford as the sg next to Collison, assuming Ford is goig to still be here. It wouldn't surprise me to see

Collison
Ford
Dunleavy
Granger
Hibbert

for the first 5 games, at least, and likely for an extended time beyond that.

mmpfm1
08-27-2010, 05:21 PM
I think Rush will stay with the Pacers. The pacers organization will attempt to spin the story. The pacers will support Rush with his "problem". They will paint the picture that Rush has a real drug issues and needs some professional help.They will do this in an attempt to make people feel sympathy for him . It will also stop people from seeing him as a casual user who just likes to party. IMO

ChristianDudley
08-27-2010, 05:23 PM
Another step towards reinstatement into the starting small ball lineup for TJ Ford as the sg next to Collison, assuming Ford is goig to still be here. It wouldn't surprise me to see

Collison
Ford
Dunleavy
Granger
Hibbert

for the first 5 games, at least, and likely for an extended time beyond that.

yeah I'd really like to know what T.J. and O'Brien talked about a week or 2 ago...I'd hope it was about a trade involving T.J. and not giving him playing time next season lmao.

Sookie
08-27-2010, 05:25 PM
yeah I'd really like to know what T.J. and O'Brien talked about a week or 2 ago...I'd hope it was about a trade involving T.J. and not giving him playing time next season lmao.

I really doubt it would be about playing time. Ford's gone through two years of JOB "randomly" (in Ford's opinion, I'm sure) taking away his playing time. No reason for Ford to be that happy over a conversation, he knows as well as anyone what Jimmy says is not really ever what Jimmy does.

Brad8888
08-27-2010, 05:26 PM
yeah I'd really like to know what T.J. and O'Brien talked about a week or 2 ago...I'd hope it was about a trade involving T.J. and not giving him playing time next season lmao.

Yep. You and me both.

Sookie
08-27-2010, 05:36 PM
Interestingly, I do think Brandon + Ford (expiring) could probably get us a decent PF..I just can't think of any right now. (maybe Diaw...I guess we could do worse seeing he's only got one year on his contract too..) But Brandon would be worth a lot more to a team than Lance would...(:( I'd rather not trade him)

IU_sears
08-27-2010, 06:29 PM
WHAT ABOUT LANCE??? He can play the 2!!!

LOL, wow... one bad apple spoils the bunch... Bring back CAPTAIN JACK and the TIN MAN!!!

cdash
08-27-2010, 06:31 PM
We aren't freaking out at all about this five game suspension...

We're fine at the wings, even with Rush out for five whole games. I'm still more worried about the four.

Sookie
08-27-2010, 06:44 PM
WHAT ABOUT LANCE??? He can play the 2!!!

LOL, wow... one bad apple spoils the bunch... Bring back CAPTAIN JACK and the TIN MAN!!!

Hey is a 2, but the assumption is he won't be here. Much better shot of Rush being here.

avoidingtheclowns
08-27-2010, 06:50 PM
Interestingly, I do think Brandon + Ford (expiring) could probably get us a decent PF..I just can't think of any right now. (maybe Diaw...I guess we could do worse seeing he's only got one year on his contract too..) But Brandon would be worth a lot more to a team than Lance would...(:( I'd rather not trade him)

Diaw actually has two years, second year being a $9mil player option (Sham (http://shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/bobcats.jsp)).

As for Diaw the player... unless Posey is involved in the trade, I'm not tremendously interested. The second year at $9mil is a little too much to take on for a guy that really won't be a longterm answer for us at the 4 and certainly doesn't help us with two of our deficiencies: defense and rebounding.

pacers74
08-27-2010, 06:58 PM
We aren't freaking out at all about this five game suspension...

We're fine at the wings, even with Rush out for five whole games. I'm still more worried about the four.

You are correct, but Rush is about the closest we have to a starter at SG. Dunleavy could be a starter if comes back 100% healthy. George could become a starter, but he is too green to throw in there right now.

But what you said about the four is correct. Right now we don't have anyone who is ready to sart at PF. Tyler is about to start the second part of his rookie season, McBob isn't ready to start and might not ever be ready, and I don't want Foster out there starting anymore, age has gotten to him.

cdash
08-27-2010, 07:07 PM
You are correct, but Rush is about the closest we have to a starter at SG. Dunleavy could be a starter if comes back 100% healthy. George could become a starter, but he is too Green to throw in there right now.

But what you said about the four is correct. Right now we don't have anyone who is ready to sart at PF. Tyler is about to sart the second part of his rookie season, McBob isn't ready to start and might not ever be ready, and I don't want Foster out there starting anymore, age has gotten to him.

I suspect we will see Dunleavy starting at the two on opening night, with the possible exception of Dahntay. Once Rush comes back, I assume he will take it back barring anything unforeseen happening.

I agree with you about the four. It's a concern for me and I am not thrilled about the prospect of Jeff Foster's decaying corpse starting for an extended period of time.

MLB007
08-27-2010, 08:38 PM
WHAT ABOUT LANCE??? He can play the 2!!!

LOL, wow... one bad apple spoils the bunch... Bring back CAPTAIN JACK and the TIN MAN!!!

Oz never did give nothin to the tin man. :hmm:

MLB007
08-27-2010, 08:41 PM
I suspect we will see Dunleavy starting at the two on opening night, with the possible exception of Dahntay. Once Rush comes back, I assume he will take it back barring anything unforeseen happening.

I agree with you about the four. It's a concern for me and I am not thrilled about the prospect of Jeff Foster's decaying corpse starting for an extended period of time.

You'll be trying to throw a saddle on that old horse when he's averaging 15 rpg. (if he's healthy)

MyFavMartin
08-27-2010, 08:48 PM
Maybe we could get Rush to work with Bill Walton...

Day-V
08-27-2010, 08:48 PM
Maybe we could get Rush to work with Bill Walton...

Sounds like he already has......

cdash
08-28-2010, 03:35 AM
You'll be trying to throw a saddle on that old horse when he's averaging 15 rpg. (if he's healthy)

If he averages 15 rpg, I will absolutely throw a saddle on that old horse, and I'll advocate a trade for every other over the hill player too. Tracy McGrady, come on down!

LA_Confidential
08-28-2010, 03:59 AM
Maybe we could send Dunleavy and Rush to the Hawks for Jamal Crawford since he wants to be traded. SG would be pretty much solved since Crawford is consistently aggressive offensively.

MLB007
08-28-2010, 10:44 AM
If he averages 15 rpg, I will absolutely throw a saddle on that old horse, and I'll advocate a trade for every other over the hill player too. Tracy McGrady, come on down!

LOL - TM ain't no Jeff Foster. :D
i seriously do think a healthy Jeff will have some 15 rebound games IF he plays a lot of 4 next to Roy and Danny.
Not gonna happen if he's backing up Roy.
Jeff's been Hurt, he ain't been over the hill. :box:

Eleazar
08-28-2010, 10:55 AM
When Rush has been suspended a 2nd or 3rd time for the same issue is when I'll start worry about his position on the team.

Brad8888
08-28-2010, 11:01 AM
Oz never did give nothin to the tin man. :hmm:

that he didn't, didn't already have :)

BlueNGold
08-28-2010, 06:38 PM
Dun will be starting. If 100% healthy, he is probably better than Brandon....and I say this being a defense proponent. Dunleavy 2007 may be better than Brandon ever plays.

Pacers2012
08-28-2010, 07:13 PM
When Rush has been suspended a 2nd or 3rd time for the same issue is when I'll start worry about his position on the team.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors#18100

The NBA on Friday suspended Brandon Rush for five regular season games due to violating its anti-drug policy. A player has to test positive for marijuana three times to receive a five game suspension and the NBA can only test players during the season.

Bob Kravitz of The Indianapolis Star thinks Pacers president Larry Bird needs to trade the shooting guard.

Kravitz writes: "So what we've got here in Rush, a guy who floats around the court like he's stoned at times, is a guy who cares so little about his team, his teammates and his profession that he can't lay off the chronic for a measly couple of months. You know what weed-smoking NBA players do? They smoke weed during the summer, when there's no testing. Is it so much to ask of a guy making millions of dollars to lay off the cannabis during the basketball season? ... Once again, team president Larry Bird will have to trade a player with a gun pointed at his temple -- but it's got to be done. Just as Pacer Nation was starting to feel a little bit good about this franchise after the Darren Collison trade, here came the double whammy: rookie Lance Stephenson's arrest on domestic violence and Rush's drug suspension."

Rush will lose about $116,000 due to the suspension.
-------------------------------------------------------------

What's your stance now?

This is the 3rd time he has been caught. the nba doesn't bring out these issues the first 2 times cause it looks bad for them and they prob also hope guys can grow up and lay off the bud for basketball season. I know i did when i played sports and i wasn't gettin paid millions either. Rush's chances of being traded just doubled and he only has himself to blame. I don't have a problem trading him since I don't see him being much better then what he already is. Really if this is his 3rd time being caught then he should be suspended more like 15games so he loses close to half a million dollars. 5 games is nothing when there are 82 games. Im sure he is more worried bout that 116k he lost more then the measily 5 games he wont play.

beast23
08-29-2010, 12:24 AM
PF is still the priority. More important position, and harder to find than a SG.I would agree with this. PF is the #1 priority. But, SG is also a priority because, with or without Rush, we do NOT have the quality of SG that we need on our roster to become one of the top competing teams in the league.

graphic-er
08-29-2010, 11:43 AM
I think we can do a shooting guard by committee just fine, we just need everyone to play consistent at that position. All of our players at SG have been inconsistent.

I think this year you will see Posey as the first wing off the bench so that he can play some minutes with Collison has they already have a rapport with each other.

Eleazar
08-29-2010, 01:13 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors#18100

The NBA on Friday suspended Brandon Rush for five regular season games due to violating its anti-drug policy. A player has to test positive for marijuana three times to receive a five game suspension and the NBA can only test players during the season.

Bob Kravitz of The Indianapolis Star thinks Pacers president Larry Bird needs to trade the shooting guard.

Kravitz writes: "So what we've got here in Rush, a guy who floats around the court like he's stoned at times, is a guy who cares so little about his team, his teammates and his profession that he can't lay off the chronic for a measly couple of months. You know what weed-smoking NBA players do? They smoke weed during the summer, when there's no testing. Is it so much to ask of a guy making millions of dollars to lay off the cannabis during the basketball season? ... Once again, team president Larry Bird will have to trade a player with a gun pointed at his temple -- but it's got to be done. Just as Pacer Nation was starting to feel a little bit good about this franchise after the Darren Collison trade, here came the double whammy: rookie Lance Stephenson's arrest on domestic violence and Rush's drug suspension."

Rush will lose about $116,000 due to the suspension.
-------------------------------------------------------------

What's your stance now?

This is the 3rd time he has been caught. the nba doesn't bring out these issues the first 2 times cause it looks bad for them and they prob also hope guys can grow up and lay off the bud for basketball season. I know i did when i played sports and i wasn't gettin paid millions either. Rush's chances of being traded just doubled and he only has himself to blame. I don't have a problem trading him since I don't see him being much better then what he already is. Really if this is his 3rd time being caught then he should be suspended more like 15games so he loses close to half a million dollars. 5 games is nothing when there are 82 games. Im sure he is more worried bout that 116k he lost more then the measily 5 games he wont play.

It doesn't change my opinion because this is the first time he has gotten punished for it. Some people have to learn there lesson the hard way, and this could be what teaches him his lesson. The only thing that needs to be done is the Pacers need to do their own drug testing to make sure he keeps off of it.

bulldog
08-29-2010, 02:01 PM
It doesn't change my opinion because this is the first time he has gotten punished for it. Some people have to learn there lesson the hard way, and this could be what teaches him his lesson. The only thing that needs to be done is the Pacers need to do their own drug testing to make sure he keeps off of it.

Almost certain that wouldn't be allowed. The collective bargaining agreements cover all that kind of stuff, and a team can't just decide to start testing and enforcing a more strict drug policy.

BlueNGold
08-29-2010, 03:19 PM
The fact he was caught 3 times during the regular season is troubling. He does all of this in the face of the franchise attempting to clean up its image.

I always had doubts about Brandon in terms of character since Bird was joking about Brandon needing to pay his "parking tickets":
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2008/jul/16/rush_signs_pacers/
Source: KU Sports

While the news papers actually believed the parking ticket story, I was aware of a different issue that paints a different picture in terms of the character of Brandon Rush:

Recall the situation where Rush had to go to court for another reason?: child support

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2008/apr/04/brandon_rush_has_court_date_child_support_case/
Source: KU Sports.com

Interesting that these incidents happened about the same time. Apparently the franchise is baby sitting Brandon now.

Edit: I recall Larry laughing about him needing to pay his parking tickets. Parking. It should have been obvious to everyone what Bird actually meant...but apparently people did not get it...because the author of the article seemed to be oblivious to this play on words.

Sookie
08-29-2010, 06:34 PM
The fact he was caught 3 times during the regular season is troubling. He does all of this in the face of the franchise attempting to clean up its image.

I always had doubts about Brandon in terms of character since Bird was joking about Brandon needing to pay his "parking tickets":
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2008/jul/16/rush_signs_pacers/
Source: KU Sports

While the news papers actually believed the parking ticket story, I was aware of a different issue that paints a different picture in terms of the character of Brandon Rush:

Recall the situation where Rush had to go to court for another reason?: child support

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2008/apr/04/brandon_rush_has_court_date_child_support_case/
Source: KU Sports.com

Interesting that these incidents happened about the same time. Apparently the franchise is baby sitting Brandon now.

Edit: I recall Larry laughing about him needing to pay his parking tickets. Parking. It should have been obvious to everyone what Bird actually meant...but apparently people did not get it...because the author of the article seemed to be oblivious to this play on words.

That stuff is all knucklhead, typical young guy stuff. (Yes, even paying the child support..unfortunately)

It's not "shoot up the club" stuff, or "beat up your GF" stuff. It's stuff, that if Brandon does live up to his potential..we could deal with.

rexnom
08-29-2010, 06:57 PM
I actually think Brandon will be good enough to start on a championship team, which I think are better suited for him than lottery teams. If he's the 4th or 5th option on your team, chiming in with some excellent perimeter defense and few outside shots here and there, you're in good shape.

speakout4
08-29-2010, 08:15 PM
The fact he was caught 3 times during the regular season is troubling. He does all of this in the face of the franchise attempting to clean up its image.

I always had doubts about Brandon in terms of character since Bird was joking about Brandon needing to pay his "parking tickets":
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2008/jul/16/rush_signs_pacers/
Source: KU Sports

While the news papers actually believed the parking ticket story, I was aware of a different issue that paints a different picture in terms of the character of Brandon Rush:

Recall the situation where Rush had to go to court for another reason?: child support

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2008/apr/04/brandon_rush_has_court_date_child_support_case/
Source: KU Sports.com

Interesting that these incidents happened about the same time. Apparently the franchise is baby sitting Brandon now.

Edit: I recall Larry laughing about him needing to pay his parking tickets. Parking. It should have been obvious to everyone what Bird actually meant...but apparently people did not get it...because the author of the article seemed to be oblivious to this play on words.
Somewhere at this very moment Brandon is reading these threads and lighting up.

BlueNGold
08-29-2010, 08:48 PM
That stuff is all knucklhead, typical young guy stuff. (Yes, even paying the child support..unfortunately)

It's not "shoot up the club" stuff, or "beat up your GF" stuff. It's stuff, that if Brandon does live up to his potential..we could deal with.

I'm actually not too worried about Brandon. He's not a bad guy and I don't think he has an attitude.

However, NBA players are entertainers...and they are not typical young guys. Many of them never seem to grow up because they live in a completely different world...that IMO does not lend itself to producing mature adults. The good news is that his handlers will probably make sure the child support is paid. The bad news is that they are not going to baby sit him 24/7 to prevent him from breaking league rules again. That part is up to him...and we shall see how this turns out.

MLB007
08-29-2010, 09:19 PM
Somewhere at this very moment Brandon is reading these threads and lighting up.

Then he'll be in good company. :D

McKeyFan
08-29-2010, 09:59 PM
Maybe this is where I should share that I do heroin every morning and smoke meth at night.

This is my personal thing, it doesn't hurt me in any way, I am in great health and run marathons every month. I'm also a tri-athlete.

Brandon will be alright. Let's live and let live.

xBulletproof
08-29-2010, 10:03 PM
Maybe this is where I should share that I do heroin every morning and smoke meth at night.

This is my personal thing, it doesn't hurt me in any way, I am in great health and run marathons every month. I'm also a tri-athlete.

Brandon will be alright. Let's live and let live.

http://www.secure-power.com/images/confused.jpg


I'm confused .... is this sarcasm?!

MLB007
08-30-2010, 09:45 AM
http://www.secure-power.com/images/confused.jpg


I'm confused .... is this sarcasm?!

I'm guessing YES. :p

sportfireman
08-30-2010, 10:35 AM
Dun will be starting. If 100% healthy, he is probably better than Brandon....and I say this being a defense proponent. Dunleavy 2007 may be better than Brandon ever plays.

Yeah and Dun 2007 is probably the best Dun will ever play again.:D

Speed
08-30-2010, 11:08 AM
I think Dunleavy will be much better than last year. Dun didn't practice last year, couldn't do leg strengthening during the season. So all of his cardio came in games. At least around December that was the case according to Obie. Same with Hansbrough, no practice, limited conditioning.

I wonder if Dunleavy's defense looks better this year. I think when he has had to play with Murphy throughout much (all?) of his career it was devasting from a team defense standpoint.

Now that Murphy is gone, Dunleavy is full strength (?), I wonder if you can absorb his shortcomings, while the team defense that he brings can be amplyfied.

I guess I'm in the group that thinks Dunleavy will be much better than last year, but maybe never as good as 07. If thats that case he should play alot.

If he plays alot, I also don't think he should be a starter on a good team though.

He's not a 2 guard, to me, not quick enough. He's not a 3 on this team with Danny available. So, as a 6th man, I'd put him as a very good asset. He can make the motion offense click. He can take charges and allow a second group to be agressive defensively.

The one thing about Mike though, I wish he would be more of a leader. Not in a grouchy coach sort of way, but in a positive swagger sort of way. I'd love to see him as captain of the 2nd unit. Not sure he's built like that, though.

As for the first 5 games, I'd guess he starts easily. I think he's one of your 5 best players anyway, probably.

I keep trying to figure out line ups/rotations for the first 5 games and beyond, but it's really pointless. We don't know who will be available, who will be healthy, how Obie will address the PF spot.

It will be interesting, you'll start the season with only Danny and Roy as returning starters from last year. After those two and Collison, I think the other two starters and the rotation players may be up for grabs. Honestly, that's probably a good thing.

DrFife
08-30-2010, 11:41 AM
I think Dunleavy will be much better than last year. Dun didn't practice last year, couldn't do leg strengthening during the season. So all of his cardio came in games. At least around December that was the case according to Obie. Same with Hansbrough, no practice, limited conditioning.


I'm disappointed that he hasn't kept us apprised of his health (improvement) via his blogs. Anyone have any summer updates?

MyFavMartin
08-30-2010, 12:35 PM
I haven't seen an apology from Rush or Stephenson... the latter I get for legel reasons, but does a lack of apology from Rush indicate an appeal is under way or that he's not sorry? Somehow I'd like to see some kind of statement from him.

McKeyFan
08-30-2010, 01:59 PM
Statement from Rush:

"Dude . . . five days? . . . . Dude."

bphil
08-30-2010, 04:39 PM
I was stating to anyone who would listen (i.e. no one) that Duns was going to take back the starting SG job before Rush got strike 3. Now it's a lock. I have a feeling Rush might get Forded this year.

Day-V
08-30-2010, 05:00 PM
I talked to Kravitz today. Basically agreed with me in that while this is not good news by any stretch, that it could be a blessing in disguise for Paul to get some playing time early on in the season.

Also said that Rush is an idiot who doesn't care about the team. Couldn't disagree with that.