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View Full Version : Jermaine to Dampier... HELP!!



Joel
08-11-2004, 07:18 AM
Jermaine O'Neal is looking for help. There's no need for a want ad, though, because the Indiana Pacers' All-Star forward already has someone in mind for the job.

Someone like center Erick Dampier.

"We've talked an awful lot this summer," O'Neal said of Dampier in a Q&A with the Indianapolis Star. "I told him he should do a one-year deal.

"The only option out there for him is Atlanta. It's his judgment call. He understands we'd love to have him."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1855781
More at link..

TheSauceMaster
08-11-2004, 07:20 AM
I am pretty sure this or something similar has been posted already , looks like the same stuff that was in the Indy Star.

Joel
08-11-2004, 07:26 AM
Sorry if it's a repost. I didn't see it in the main forum.

Nonetheless, Dampier would be a nice pickup for you guys. He'd definitely fill the hole that Brad left last year.

TheSauceMaster
08-11-2004, 07:39 AM
Sorry if it's a repost. I didn't see it in the main forum.

Nonetheless, Dampier would be a nice pickup for you guys. He'd definitely fill the hole that Brad left last year.


I think you'll find a few of us hardcore guys don't want dampier :laugh::laugh:

JOneal7
08-11-2004, 08:28 AM
that'd be awesome...Another wristband/headband for me to go after. :)
Damp already hooked me up with the headband last yr...heh

Anthem
08-11-2004, 10:53 AM
Yeah, ESPN shamelessly lifted that story from the Indystar.

Snickers
08-11-2004, 11:01 AM
that'd be awesome...Another wristband/headband for me to go after. :)
Damp already hooked me up with the headband last yr...heh

I never really wanted Dampier, but in that case, LETS GET HIM!!!

SoupIsGood
08-11-2004, 11:03 AM
forget trading ron, lets convince damp to sign a 1 yr deal

line up of tinley-jackson-artest-o'neal-dampier

:champions:

Lord Helmet
08-11-2004, 12:07 PM
forget trading ron, lets convince damp to sign a 1 yr deal

line up of tinley-jackson-artest-o'neal-dampier

:champions:
YES!!!I hope J.O. can convince him to sign with us.I mean Damp has to know he could be the final piece of the puzzle for us.He would only have to sign 1 year and then after that year he could look for his payday.Damp can't be that stupid he knows we are close and we almost won last year.But he will probably go to Knick land because its all about the $$. :mad:

Joel
08-11-2004, 07:56 PM
forget trading ron, lets convince damp to sign a 1 yr deal

line up of tinley-jackson-artest-o'neal-dampier

:champions:

I'm not really that high on Dampier.. If he signs a one year and is motivated, he'd be a great pickup.

I still don't think the Pacers EVER win a championship with Jamal Tinsley as their PG.

Hicks
08-11-2004, 07:58 PM
You're not the first Kings fan I've seen rag on Tinsley. What's that about?

Tinsley's has great natural PG skills, he's a terrific passer, handles offensive pace well, and since last year showed a decent shot and ok defense. He's a great floor leader.

Joel
08-11-2004, 08:04 PM
I guess when you have a glut of PG talent on your team, you know a championship calibur PG when you see one. Jamal isn't a solid enough shooter or defender to get you a title. Unless you have someone named MJ or Shaq on your team, you need someone better than him the initiate the offense.

IMO, he's one of the 5 worst starting PG's in the game. But that's just MY opinion, for wat it's worth.

Hicks
08-11-2004, 08:07 PM
Since when is shooting ability the first priority of a classic PG? I'd think being able to run a team is the first thing you want, and Tinsley has those characteristics in spades. And his defense was decent last year. Not exception, but certainly not bad. I thought it was good, actually.

And while he was streaky from 3, he did average 37% from down town.

ROCislandWarrior
08-11-2004, 08:09 PM
I guess when you have a glut of PG talent on your team, you know a championship calibur PG when you see one. Jamal isn't a solid enough shooter or defender to get you a title. Unless you have someone named MJ or Shaq on your team, you need someone better than him the initiate the offense.

IMO, he's one of the 5 worst starting PG's in the game. But that's just MY opinion, for wat it's worth.


Wow...how would you know what a championship PG is? Quite obviously it isn't Bibby or Jackson now is it?

Hicks
08-11-2004, 08:13 PM
He's got you there; I don't recall any rings on their fingers, either.

Joel
08-11-2004, 08:16 PM
Wow...how would you know what a championship PG is? Quite obviously it isn't Bibby or Jackson now is it?


Ouch. :king:

SoupIsGood
08-11-2004, 08:34 PM
I'm starting to think Tinsley has played some bad games againt the kins or something, all kings fans hate him.

And does JO always get techs againt the spurs? All spurs fans think he is immature, full of himself, and doesn't give a damn about winning.

But really, a bottom 5 starting PG? Hmmm

In terms of passing abilty, he is at least a top 10 PG.

But if scoring is what your after, any team can put a small shooting guard at PG. I think its more important a PG is a good passer, and runs the offense well.

Joel
08-11-2004, 08:51 PM
He is a good passer. So is Mateen Cleaves. That's not the number #1 requirement for a good NBA PG these days.

You have to have a combination of the following:
Great speed, size, strength, a nice outside shot, the ability to create your own shot, and the ability to run a break. Tinsley lacks too many of those thing IMO.

But hey, I'm the same guy that wanted Ike Austin instead of Vlade Divac. ;)

Roaming Gnome
08-11-2004, 08:52 PM
I guess when you have a glut of PG talent on your team, you know a championship calibur PG when you see one. Jamal isn't a solid enough shooter or defender to get you a title. Unless you have someone named MJ or Shaq on your team, you need someone better than him the initiate the offense.

IMO, he's one of the 5 worst starting PG's in the game. But that's just MY opinion, for wat it's worth.

Sounds like the exact same >>>:horsedoo: that Mark Patrick spews everytime Tins name is mentioned. Actually word for word at that when it came to the Pacers chances at winning it all. Yeah, Tins is not Jason Kidd, but come on...bottom 5, :wtf:!

If Tins was bottom 5 talent, he would not have the backers that he has on either this forum or the IS forum. Just look at the comments about Scot Pollard...If it were up to a lot of us on these forums, the dude would be traded for sweat bands, gym socks and a used ball because we know we couldn't get the rack of new balls for him!

Joel
08-11-2004, 09:02 PM
Yeah.. Thanks for Brad Miller. That was an even trade. ;)

Pollard isn't bad. He just needs to play in a run and run style offense. He thrives when he can get a lot of put back on the break. If you put Pollard on the Mavs as their starting center, He'd average close to a double/double.

SoupIsGood
08-11-2004, 09:03 PM
He is a good passer. So is Mateen Cleaves. That's not the number #1 requirement for a good NBA PG these days.

You have to have a combination of the following:
Great speed, size, strength, a nice outside shot, the ability to create your own shot, and the ability to run a break. Tinsley lacks too many of those thing IMO.

But hey, I'm the same guy that wanted Ike Austin instead of Vlade Divac. ;)

The only thing I think Tinsley is really lacking there is great speed.

Snickers
08-11-2004, 09:09 PM
Yeah.. Thanks for Brad Miller. That was an even trade. ;)

Pollard isn't bad. He just needs to play in a run and run style offense. He thrives when he can get a lot of put back on the break. If you put Pollard on the Mavs as their starting center, He'd average close to a double/double.

You think swapping Ron for Peja would open up our running game a bit?

Joel
08-11-2004, 09:21 PM
Okay... I rated them all. Looks like I was wrong. I have Tinsley rated as the 8th worst Starting PG in the league. I'd take several backups over him (Eric Snow, Bobby Jackson, Jamal Crawford, Nick Van Exel, and Troy Hudson).

1 Jason Kidd
2 Allen Iverson
3 Baron Davis
4 Stephon Marbury
5 Mike Bibby
6 Dwyane Wade
7 Steve Francis
8 Sam Cassel
9 Steve Nash
10 Tony Parker
11 Gilbert Arenas
12 Dre Miller
13 Chanucey Billups
14 Jason Terry
15 Jason Williams
16 Gary Payton
17 Kirk Hinrich
18 Damon Stoudamire
19 Antonio Daniels
20 Jeff McInnis
21 Rafer Alston
22 Derek Fisher
23 Jamal Tinsley
24 Carlos Arroyo
25 Charlie Ward
26 Marko Jaric
27 Chuky Atkins
28 TJ Ford
29 Tony Delk
30 Jason Hart

Joel
08-11-2004, 09:22 PM
You think swapping Ron for Peja would open up our running game a bit?


I do, and that would help Pollard a lot.

Hicks
08-11-2004, 09:28 PM
Good God you put Fisher ahead of Tinsley.

Harder to argue with most of the others, but that's not really a knock on Tinsley as it is a demonstration of how many quality PGs are in this league.

indygeezer
08-11-2004, 09:37 PM
He is a good passer. So is Mateen Cleaves. That's not the number #1 requirement for a good NBA PG these days.

You have to have a combination of the following:
Great speed, size, strength, a nice outside shot, the ability to create your own shot, and the ability to run a break. Tinsley lacks too many of those thing IMO.

But hey, I'm the same guy that wanted Ike Austin instead of Vlade Divac. ;)

Wow! Took alot of guts to admit that!!!

SoupIsGood
08-11-2004, 09:39 PM
payton and fisher over Tinsley? :o

Jason Kidd
Allen Iverson
Baron Davis
Stephon Marbury
Mike Bibby
Dwyane Wade
Steve Nash
Tony Parker
Gilbert Arenas
Dre Miller
Jason Williams
Kirk Hinrich
Carlos Arroyo
Steve Francis


are the only ones I'd take over tins, and im not so sure about arryo and others

So I think argueing Tins is less than a top 15-18 PG is a little off. Plus, only about 10 or so of the people on your lsit are better passers than him, and Tinsley role on this team isn't to score, so I'm fine with it.Id t

Snickers
08-11-2004, 09:39 PM
Okay... I rated them all. Looks like I was wrong. I have Tinsley rated as the 8th worst Starting PG in the league. ....


Ok, I'm bored, so I'll take the PGs you listed and rearrange them to where I think they're most appropriate.

I tend to value traditional PG skills [passing, court vision, leadership and quarterbacking ability, etc.] more than scoring, so that may show up in some of my rankings.


1 Jason Kidd
2 Baron Davis
3 Mike Bibby
4 Steve Nash
5 Stephon Marbury
6 Chauncey Billups
7 Sam Cassell
8 Jason Williams
9 Steve Francis
10 Tony Parker
11 Gilbert Arenas
12 Dwyane Wade
13 Jason Terry
13b: Eric Snow
14 Dre Miller
15 Gary Payton
16 Jamaal Tinsley
17 Carlos Arroyo
18 Damon Stoudamire
19 Kirk Hinrich
20 Jeff McInnis
21 Rafer Alston
22 TJ Ford
23 Derek Fisher
24 Chucky Atkins
25 Antonio Daniels
26 Marko Jaric
27 Tony Delk
28 Charlie Ward
29 Jason Hart

NOTE: Jamaal could easily jump ahead of Payton, Miller and Snow. And Terry and Wade are really 2-guards playing PG, so he could go as high as 12.

indygeezer
08-11-2004, 09:47 PM
I have no problem with JT's play. He's what, a 3rd year player? He WILL improve. Year before last I would have traded him for a german shepard but he made great strides this year. I think being sat down by RC gave him time to lear some and motivation. Again, he will get even better.

ChicagoJ
08-11-2004, 10:54 PM
I guess when you have a glut of PG talent on your team, you know a championship calibur PG when you see one. Jamal isn't a solid enough shooter or defender to get you a title. Unless you have someone named MJ or Shaq on your team, you need someone better than him the initiate the offense.

IMO, he's one of the 5 worst starting PG's in the game. But that's just MY opinion, for wat it's worth.

:funny:

Watch for falling credibility.

If there is one thing Tinsley can do better than just about every other PG in the league not named Kidd, its initiate the offense. :rolleyes:

If you've got JO, Ron/Peja, Reggie, and Al/SJax on your roster, the last thing you want your PG to do is shoot the ball alot. :confused:

And everyone else has already jumped on the really stupid comment. My goodness, Joel. Oscar couldn't even lead your team to a championship, and that was two cities ago. (Three if you count Omaha) I must've forgotten something over the years, when exactly did you watch a championship caliber PG?

:pity:

:annoyed:

Joel
08-11-2004, 11:17 PM
For what it's worth, I said "championship calibur" not "championship winning".

How many titles does Jason Kidd have? Is he a "championship calibur" point guard?

SoupIsGood
08-11-2004, 11:23 PM
But you implied you knew this by watching the kings, who have no championships.

ChicagoJ
08-11-2004, 11:28 PM
But you implied you knew this by watching the kings, who have no championships.

Now, SIG, if you had read his post correctly, you'd see that he implied that he knew a championship-caliber PG becuase his team has a glut of talent at that position, not just because they are the Kings.

Couldn't somebody say that Tinsley/ AJ/ Gill/ Wright/ Brewer [?] is a glut talent, too. :confused:

Unclebuck
08-12-2004, 12:05 AM
I vote for Joel as poster of the week. He has been a welcome addition, please stick around.


Joel last year at this time i would agree with you that Tinsley was one of the 5 wrost point guards in the NBA. Everyone who knows me knows two things about me I love Artest and I am not a big fan of Tinsley.

But over the past year Tinsley has won me over to a large degree. His defense has improved 100% to the point where he is average now. That is how bad he was in his first two years. His shooting has improved a little, but he is left wide open so often that he should improve a little. He gets warmup jumpers all game every game. So his shooting % is a little inflated compared to a guy teams key on.

There were several times last season where Carlisle became frustrated with Tinsley's decision making and played AJ more than most fans wanted.

I would rank Tinsley somewhere in the lower teens as a player who plays the point guard postion.

SoupIsGood
08-12-2004, 12:17 AM
I second that vote. I always welcome fans of other teams, helps widen our perspective.

Joel
08-12-2004, 12:39 AM
Thanks guys, I appreciate the kind words. This board seems to be full on intelligent posters that are passionate about their hoops. I'll be sure to stick around.

able
08-12-2004, 04:58 AM
hrmph

balonie!

Tins will surprise a few of you and most of all Joel.

I refuse to (again) post comparison stats, but his are looking eerily like a certain pg from NJ over the same period and in the same stage of his career as Tins is now.

I'll let Tins do the talking this coming year, but I do urge you to consider the following:
In the previous year(s) we have been on the sharp lookout for a starting PG (see the KA signing for one) numerous Terry talks etc. However this year, when Terry was a possibility whilst discussing the Al trade, it was shot down by RC and LB. for the simple reason that they have obviously made the mind transition, Tins is here to stay, he's gonna be a very good if not great PG.

LB (whom I easily admit knows a heck of a lot more about the game then I do) has said he sees Tins as the next AllStar on this team, now who are we to conclude that Tins would even be considered in the lower half of the PG's in this league?

If I see the lists swarming and Tins no higher anywhere then 16 then I seriously have to question a few things. Tins is easy top 10 atm, and will be top 5 shortly.

Courtvision and passing skills are in abundance, shooting is improving, quick hands (steals galore) and his defense is coming along nicely.

I fear that he will get a hefty raise and contract extension, if not he will (certainly after the coming season) get an offer the P's wont be able to match, of that I'm sure.

naptown
08-12-2004, 09:52 AM
A few things to keep in mind about Tins.

He never played organized ball until he was 19 or 20 years old. And when he did it was AAU ball. He was nothing but a NY playground player...., no jr. high ball and no high school ball. He missed years upon years of coaching and fundamentals that almost every other player in the NBA had been receiving since they were 10 years old or younger.

He has only been in the league for 3 seasons. Last year he made a huge jump in his game. From decision making to shooting to defense to understanding his role on the team. I think last year he really started to "get it". He was expected to be a bit of a project because of his lack of playing organized ball. I believe the project is really starting to pay off and the rewards are only going to get bigger.

Tins really reminds me of a young Mark Jackson. And if Tins continues to improve at the rate we have seen the last 3 years he may end up being even better than Mark. And personally, I would take that any day over most of the PGs in todays NBA.

Snickers
08-12-2004, 11:18 AM
I like Tins a lot, and I think he fits in with the team we have quite nicely.

I've kept him on my "Don't trade this guy unless you get a REALLY good deal" list all summer. I didn't really like the idea of trading him for Jason Terry, and he was my personal deal-breaker in the Tmac mess.

But It's hard to say he's better than guys like Jason Terry and Gilbert Arenas, considering that at this stage he's really only an 8-point 6-8 assist guy. Add to that being benched for a good chunk of the season, only just starting to play defense, and having a shooting touch that didn't start to reveal itself until later in the playoffs.... and I'm thinking he'll get a lot more respect next year.

Top 5 may be asking a bit too much, but top 10 isn't out of the question. I don't care how many points he scores; that's not his game. If he continues to make the offense run smoothly [which will be an even more important task this year], play adequate defense [maybe he can step that up to "solid defense"], and hit enough shots to keep the defense from ignoring him, then all these Jason Kidd comparisons will be a lot less outrageous.

Arcadian
08-12-2004, 01:24 PM
I'd take Damp if it was a short contract and it didn't cost Bender.

Tins really came on the second half of the season (or whenever it was that he came back as starter.) Watch him next season and your opinion will change.

Joel
08-13-2004, 01:05 AM
With everyone sticking up for Tinsley like this maybe he should get some Yahoo fantasy love from me in the KingsTalk league. 11th round?

Snickers
08-13-2004, 01:23 AM
With everyone sticking up for Tinsley like this maybe he should get some Yahoo fantasy love from me in the KingsTalk league. 11th round?

He might be a steal by then.... who were some of the last players picked?

ChicagoJ
08-13-2004, 10:13 AM
No, you've hit the nail on the head. You don't really want Tinsley on your fantasy team, he'll never put up eye popping numbers in points or steals, and his assists will generally be above average but probably not league-leading.

But statistics are the worst possible way to evaluate PGs. ATO and FG% are the only somewhat-useful stats for a PG, but to call them somewhat-useful is an insult to "somewhat".

On your real team - he's the type of player and type of person that can be the "glue" - keeps everyone happy, keeps the offense moving, gets the ball where it needs to be when it needs to be there, controls the tempo, overcomes adversity (not too many guys in the NBA have driven a garbage truck - I don't worry about Tinsley under pressure), etc.

BigDawg44
08-13-2004, 11:59 AM
didnt this thread start out about Jermaine wanting Damp?

Pig Nash
08-14-2004, 02:35 AM
sure did bigdawg. its fun to see the conversation go somewhere though.

Joel
08-14-2004, 03:31 AM
He might be a steal by then.... who were some of the last players picked?

I always gamble in 11 and 12. Last year it was Vin (and tonic) Baken and Grant Hill.

This year I'll probably pick Zo and someone like him.

Peck
08-14-2004, 04:26 AM
I wouldn't have Allen Iverson be the point guard on a Gus Macker team. Ok, never mind that that is exactly where Iverson should be a p.g.

I can't stand p.g.'s like Iverson, Marburry & Francis etc. who feel that passing is something you do after you look for your 1st, 2nd & 7th option.

Mark it down now, I will stand by this. None of the above will ever win a title unless they become older & determine that being part of a team is what is required to win.

All of them will have great career stats. & probably each of their teams will always be in or around the playoffs, but these people are cancers in the truest form.

We all know that I am no fan of Artest, but I would take two Ron's before I would ever want any one of them.