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Peck
08-11-2004, 04:00 AM
I'm bored with all of the trade speculation at present & I thought I would see if somebody could answer a question for me.

We've complained since the day the fieldhouse was opened that it's to corperate, to stiff, to quiet.

I don't disagree with any of that, however I keep reading over & over again that the common fan isn't at the game anymore.

Could somebody please tell me who the hell the common fan is?

Let's go ahead & exclude one group right now. People who are given tickets to the game by thier employer who have no idea who any Pacer is other than maybe Reggie Miller can be taken off of the common fan list.

But is there a social or economical level that determines who is the common fan?

The reason I ask is because I have set with the same group of fans since I think about 96 or 97 (I don't remember when I made the move to be honest with you) & I don't think these guys fit into what some people think are the common fan. The seat in front & to the right of me is occupied by a judge the seats to my left are occupied by an accountant from Carmel (& from the size of the diamonds on both his & his wifes hands I would say he is very succesfull). The guy behind me I don't know what he does but from listening to him talk & looking at the way he dresses I would say he is a warehouse worker somewhere (BTW, this guy hates Jeff Foster & I mean he hates him).

What's the common theme to all of these? They all have had tickets in the same section (we were together for the last couple of years at M.S.A. ) since before I came along.

Most of these guys are getting up there in age so they don't tend to stand & yell a lot (although the guy behind me certainly let's out yells at our bench often enough) but they are all diehard fans of the team.

Does the fact that the accountant & the judge don't toil the fields or bring signs to the game showing thier admiration for Jermaine (or whoever) mean they aren't the common fan?

Who is the common fan?

TheSauceMaster
08-11-2004, 08:08 AM
Hmm , very good question , although I think you made the point you mention Accountant and a Judge I would assume they can easily afford to goto a game , I think when people mention common folks they mean the average guy who you would find working in a office job , bank , store etc.

The NBA is getting more and more geared to I would say people who make 30k( just a rough estimate) and up a year , which it didn't used to be that way. I know people will argue that the extra seating adds to the factor but I remember when getting a Pacers ticket was like asking for a miracle from god they were very hard to get a few years back.

Has the sucess and failure of the past years turned most people into we will wait and see fans? I dunno I have been Crazy for the Pacers since I was 5 years old and I am now 36 , I just couldn't see rooting for another team. I have had season tickets before , used to buy them every year and maybe my wife is the biggest excuse why I don't buy them , she hates basketball with a Passion.

anyways , I am sure I could add more but I been up all night why most you normal people been sleeping and maybe I will add more later.

RWB
08-11-2004, 08:34 AM
As Peck has pointed out you can't break it down into social classes. One of the funniest things I've seen was Evan Bayh (when he was Gov.) at a Bucks game just giving a ref a ration of crap. Was not dignified at all for someone in his position. Man he really gained my respect that game. I'm not sure who the common fan is because anyone who frequents these boards are usually on the fanatical side.

All I know is I hate to get up in the morning after a Pacer loss. Why? Usually the first thing out of the wife's mouth is "I can't believe they lost last night". :laugh:

JOneal7
08-11-2004, 09:03 AM
The Common Fan is the one who wants peja, not artest :devil:

but being serious, I think it's just a fan of the game.
Diehards have season tickets and bring signs and all that good stuff. Commons root for us, come to games 1-2 times a yearand wear a pacer t shirt they found in there garage or w/e. Me? I'm the diehard fan...and just wait!~ Everyone at the house will notice me this season! It's a personal goal of mine to defend my title of most fanatic poster.
I hate the fans tho who are like "Sit down" when i'm screaming my @$$ off at a game trying to get root for us to make a run or what not.
it's annoying as hell.

Unclebuck
08-11-2004, 09:18 AM
Peck, I break it down to real fans vs people who are at Conseco just for something to do, maybe they got the tickets for free or maybe they paid for the tickets but they could care less if the Pacers win or not.

Income level has nothing to do with it. I often see Don Marsh at the games and the former CEO of Conseco, they likely are die-hard Pacer fans I don't know, but they are wealthy and just because they are wealthy does not mean that aren't real fans.

I have never made a sign before, don't see the vlue in that, but I have had someone holding a sign block my view of the game.

So I have no idea what the term "common fan" Reminds me of the offensive term "working man" to generally describe blue collar workers.

Hicks
08-11-2004, 09:33 AM
I don't know what makes a fan "common", but I like UB's method of breaking it down between real fans and people who just happen to be at the game.

Anthem
08-11-2004, 10:52 AM
Yeah, Peck, I think your first division is the only important one.

Who buys tickets to watch the Pacers, vs. who is given tickets to an entertainment event. Big diff right there.

beast23
08-11-2004, 12:07 PM
Able, I once agreed with that statement, but I don't presently agree with it at all.

I'm 52 and have been a "real fan" of the Pacers since the start of their first season. As a teenager, I would even stay up until 1 AM listening to those ABA road games in Oakland.

Since the move to Conseco, I continue to attend most home games, but I've really only paid for tickets 15-20 times since the move. I usually get free suite tickets.

The employees and even most clients that attend games in our suite are 10-year or more Pacer fans.

We do have expectations of the employees in the suite, because we don't want to risk presenting a negative impression to clients. Employees don't loudly boo, swear or overconsume alcohol. Otherwise, they risk not being invited back. Other than that, anything goes.

My point is that a lot of free tickets are getting into the hands of folks that love the Pacers. There are a number of folks who attend just to witness Conseco or to socialize in the back of the suite, but I really believe that most of the attendees in our suite are what one would call "real fans", they just keep their emotions in check because they want to get invited
back. But based on the debates we have in the suite, the majority could definitely be described as "real fans". I really don't think that our suite is any different than many of the others in this regard.

At Conseco, I don't think you can correlate whether one is a "real fan" with the amount of noise one makes or whether one chooses to get out of his/her suite. Many fans who receive free tickets keep their emotions in check because others from their company may be watching, and poor behavior may translate into not getting any more free tickets.

"Real fans" who can afford to attend are there for several games a year. Yet there are a lot of "real fans" that either live out of the area or cannot afford to attend many, or even any, games a year. And many of those fans watch or listen to games as much as possible. Or even stay up half the night to keep up with the Pacers by reading and posting on this forum.

naptownmenace
08-11-2004, 12:12 PM
I really don't see the importance of this question. I've always thought that the complaint was that the Pacers have had a difficult time drawing the casual fan, not the common fan.

The Pacers brass (and the entire NBA in general) is really after the casual fan. This is the person that usually only goes to the games if a group of his friends asks him to go. The person that only gets interested in the team during the playoffs. The guy that has the money and can afford to go to the game but decides that he'd rather go see a movie, dine out, or whatever.

In a town like Indianapolis, they really need the casual fan to continuously pack the house. Hopefully, they can convert more of the casual fans into common fans or diehards. That's why you see so much gimmickry at the games: deejays, mascots, contests, live bands before the games, giveaways, ect.

The Pacers have the diehards and common fans under control, it's the casual fan that they're after.


PS -- Many diehards and common fans of the past have fallen to the ranks casual fan with the rise of the internet, cable and Satellite TV availability, and Indy's rise in entertainment opportunities.

indygeezer
08-11-2004, 12:21 PM
I'll let you all in on an idea I've had for promotions. I was reading the Star Sports section one Sunday AM during the PO's and noticed a picture of Tinsley in action. In the background over his right shoulder you could see a balding fan wearing a coat and tie. He looked interested but not excited. THis gave me the idea for 2 adds.
In the first the guy sits there miserable while everybody around him is going nuts...the tag line goes.."Next time, leave the tie at home".
The 2nd one...same guy same coat and tie. He starts off interested but starts to gettiing into it. As he gets more and more into the action he starts peeling the jacket, then the tie, then he loosens his color and cuffs and is screaming his head off as the action goes...again the tag line "Next time, leave the tie at home".

Hey, it's a thought. (and I didn't mention a certain trade once)

ChicagoJ
08-11-2004, 12:26 PM
I used to walk from AUL to MSA in my suit and tie, to my personal seats, where I could yell up a storm. Don't automatically dismiss people wearing suits and ties at the games as "corporate stiffs". :twocents:

Besides, some of you have seen my *special* Pacers tie. :blush: :devil: :D

Kegboy
08-11-2004, 12:28 PM
I don't know what a "common fan" really is, anymore. All I get around me are the people who think Dale Davis and Rik Smits are still on the team. I used to have a couple sitting in front of me, standard yuppies who were nice, though they drank way to much. I always worried about them driving home. Bought a lot of Pacers gear, which I'm sure made management happy. But they had a second kid and stopped coming.

I'm moving seats this year, where I'm supposedly going to be around more season ticket holders. But then, by my definition, I'd call season ticket holders "diehard fans". :whoknows:

indygeezer
08-11-2004, 12:36 PM
I used to walk from AUL to MSA in my suit and tie, to my personal seats, where I could yell up a storm. Don't automatically dismiss people wearing suits and ties at the games as "corporate stiffs". :twocents:

Besides, some of you have seen my *special* Pacers tie. :blush: :devil: :D

No, no...no offense Jay. I know I'm quite comfortable in a tie. I am seeing it as a way for marketing to let those who ARE corporate stiffs know that it's ok to get crazy...they don't ALWAYS have to be "on stage" <they'll NEVER believe that>. I see it as a way to build enthusiasm and add fan noise to the games. Get more of em up and clapping rather than sitting on their hands.

<Jay...c'mon buddy, ya gotta post a pix of the tie sometime>

ChicagoJ
08-11-2004, 12:48 PM
Actually, I liked your marketing idea, and I wasn't offended. Just making the point that a question like this one can lead to a lot of stereotypes, and those aren't always accurate.

MagicRat
08-12-2004, 12:40 AM
<Jay...c'mon buddy, ya gotta post a pix of the tie sometime>

Mr. and Mrs. 222 out for a night on the town.....
http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/222tie.jpg

SoupIsGood
08-12-2004, 12:53 AM
I'd go more, but I have to drive an hour to get to indy. I'm gonna try to make like 12 game this year.

What kinda fan is the fan who enjoys watching the game, but doesn't get overly vocal? I mean, some people just like watching, and don't go crazy all the time.

Whatever you classify that as, that's what conseco mostly has.

bulletproof
08-12-2004, 01:05 AM
I know I'm quite comfortable in a tie.

I'm not, and I don't trust anyone who is. :devil:

JOneal7
08-12-2004, 01:34 AM
I think conseco needs a guy like the fat guy. It's this lawyer here in orlando who at work he wears ties and suits and he's professional. At the game he wears flashy magic custom made outfits and runs around the arena when we are at a key point of the game. He runs around the lower bowl taking his shirt off "flashing" the crowd his breasts per say because he's so fat. LOL
He's like a mascot here and he gets the fans fired up and he shows that even corp. stiffs can have fun at games. Plus it's free advertising for his business I think. If i had to compare him to someone in indy, i'd compare him to the signman..ONLY NOTICEABLE WISE...as in we all know who sign man is and everyone in otown knowes who the fat guy is (if you ever been to a magic game you know that is)
I think Conseco needs more fans like me :)

naptown
08-12-2004, 09:59 AM
The common fan drives a common van...his dog aint got a pedigree.....

Sorry, need more coffee.

ChicagoJ
08-12-2004, 10:09 AM
<Jay...c'mon buddy, ya gotta post a pix of the tie sometime>

Mr. and Mrs. 222 out for a night on the town.....
http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/222tie.jpg




:laugh: Well, that's the tie all right. Rat, I didn't think you took any pictures of the halftime meeting at that game?

(but what are you trying to do, get me in trouble? Mrs. 222 stayed in Chicago that night, so now she's going to wonder why I was at the game with Will Ferrell's wife.)

Vicious Tyrant
08-12-2004, 10:16 AM
I'm not sure if this fits into this discussion, but maybe we should mention something about the knowledge of the game.

Does anyone remember when the Colts first came to town in 84 (???). I knew nothing about football at the time, and I remember the fans shouting so loud during big offensive possessions (not that there were many of those) that the offense couldn't hear themselves. It seems funny now, but I just think a lot of people didn't know any better.

It seems like there are a lot of fans who don't know much about bball either, so they just sit back and watch until everyone else is going crazy at the end of the game, not realizing there were many other important things happening well before the last two minutes.

Vicious Tyrant
08-12-2004, 10:18 AM
You know, now that I post that and read it, it seems to me NBA ball usually just ends up boiling down to the last two minutes (unless its a blowout), so maybe I should recant.

Unclebuck
08-12-2004, 11:53 AM
You know, now that I post that and read it, it seems to me NBA ball usually just ends up boiling down to the last two minutes (unless its a blowout), so maybe I should recant.


That tired old argument that has been around for years and years, really does not stand up to scrutiny.

If you look at the winning % for teams that lead going into the 4th quarter it is straggering. For above .500 teams it is like 90%. I have a very vague memory that the pacers were like 48 - 4.

Logic tells us that every minute of a game is just as important as any other minute. But it is amazing how the team that gets a lead at some point in the game usually wins. I would love to know the winning % for a team that gets a double digit lead at some point in the game. Often they lose the lead but in the end still win the game.

When I watch a game the good teams excel during the 1st 4 minutes of the game, often lesser teams are not ready to play. Good teams then often have a little spurt to end the first half, but the really good teams often come out of the locker room and put the game away early 3rd quarter. That is not to say that there aren't a fair share of games that need to be won in the last 2 minutes of a game .

sixthman
08-12-2004, 12:15 PM
Thanks for taking the time to debunk that myth, UB. I hear that argument fairly often and know instinctively it's not true - but have never taken time to gather up a sensible reply.