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View Full Version : people say Ron collapsed in playoffs! Didn't Peja????



Roy Munson
08-09-2004, 03:20 PM
Ron at least continued to shut down players defensively and had a decent playoffs...but Peja just crumbled....losing Artest is going to make us lose our defensive abilities. People don't understand...both us and Detroit were the two best defensive teams in the league and now without Ronnie Detroit will dominate the league defensively and we will not be able to like Detroit can :(

Are you kidding? "Ron....had a decent playoffs"???? What were you watching? He disintegrated, mentally.

Peja might not have been hitting his shots, but he didn't completely lose focus of what the team was trying to, and he didn't completely start hogging the ball and throwing up terrible shots.

SoupIsGood
08-09-2004, 03:51 PM
oops, nevermind this

sweabs
08-09-2004, 03:56 PM
Give me a break! Ron continued to shut players down defensively and had a decent playoffs. He struggled a little bit against Detroit but he had a great first two rounds and played well in Game 4 we won in Detroit. Ron may not have been perfect but Peja just crumbled and did not contribute defensively like Ronnie. The thing about Ronnie is even if his offensive game if off, he will still continue to dominate a game, DEFENSIVELY! How many players can do that? Ron is a special type of player that does not come around that often....and look how much his offense improved in the last 2 years. He has been workin on his game all summer and imagine how much more it will improve. Ron can be an MVP in this league.

Wow - I completely agree.

Reggie4Three
08-09-2004, 04:06 PM
Ron at least continued to shut down players defensively and had a decent playoffs...but Peja just crumbled....losing Artest is going to make us lose our defensive abilities. People don't understand...both us and Detroit were the two best defensive teams in the league and now without Ronnie Detroit will dominate the league defensively and we will not be able to like Detroit can :(

Are you kidding? "Ron....had a decent playoffs"???? What were you watching? He disintegrated, mentally.

Peja might not have been hitting his shots, but he didn't completely lose focus of what the team was trying to, and he didn't completely start hogging the ball and throwing up terrible shots.



Give me a break! Ron continued to shut players down defensively and had a decent playoffs. He struggled a little bit against Detroit but he had a great first two rounds and played well in Game 4 we won in Detroit. Ron may not have been perfect but Peja just crumbled and did not contribute defensively like Ronnie. The thing about Ronnie is even if his offensive game if off, he will still continue to dominate a game, DEFENSIVELY! How many players can do that? Ron is a special type of player that does not come around that often....and look how much his offense improved in the last 2 years. He has been workin on his game all summer and imagine how much more it will improve. Ron can be an MVP in this league.

I agree with this as well.

Mourning
08-09-2004, 04:06 PM
Well MVP stretches it too far IMO, but yes, this is a special type of player you dont trade away, not even for the best pure shooter in the league IMO. Besides, I dont think we have the free flowing offense Peja excels in, so his numbers will go down, also look at SacTown at the perimeter they now have conservatively stated 2 of the top-5 perimeter defenders who both also account for themselves offensively, they will be SCARY to play coming season if this goes through!

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Unclebuck
08-09-2004, 04:29 PM
I would rather those who are in favor of this possible trade simply say that Ronnie causes too many problems and those problems hurt the team. Because any other arguments I have read today are nonsense.

Why not just admit that yes the pacers defense won't be as good without Ronnie, and yet the team will lose a lot of toughness and energy without Ronnie. Please don't try to argue otherwise

indygeezer
08-09-2004, 04:43 PM
Ronnie DID fall apart in the POs...mentally. PJ suffered offensively. Anybody wanna mention Billups play up to the finals???

It Happens.

Hicks
08-09-2004, 04:46 PM
I will argue otherwise on the toughness front. One man does not make or break this entire TEAMS toughness. That's just bs IMO.

I will conceed our D won't be as good, but I don't for a second think the drop will be as far as many of you do.

Beyond that, I'm for this trade because I'm excited about what Peja brings to our table, and I know this would never even be close to happening unless Ron was a real pain in the *** privately to this franchise, so I'm not against him leaving, despite me liking his great defense and his other positive traits.

indygeezer
08-09-2004, 04:50 PM
I will argue otherwise on the toughness front. One man does not make or break this entire TEAMS toughness. That's just bs IMO.

I will conceed our D won't be as good, but I don't for a second think the drop will be as far as many of you do.

Beyond that, I'm for this trade because I'm excited about what Peja brings to our table, and I know this would never even be close to happening unless Ron was a real pain in the *** privately to this franchise, so I'm not against him leaving, despite me liking his great defense and his other positive traits.

I agree with this completely. I like Ron, but if he's being a carbunckle on DW's backside then it's time to cut him loose. I wanna see what we can do with speed like Jamaal can bring along with Sax and Peja running the court.
<edit> With those three + JO you can forget those 70 point games IMO.

Roy Munson
08-09-2004, 04:56 PM
I will argue otherwise on the toughness front. One man does not make or break this entire TEAMS toughness. That's just bs IMO.

I will conceed our D won't be as good, but I don't for a second think the drop will be as far as many of you do.

Beyond that, I'm for this trade because I'm excited about what Peja brings to our table, and I know this would never even be close to happening unless Ron was a real pain in the *** privately to this franchise, so I'm not against him leaving, despite me liking his great defense and his other positive traits.

Right. I can't understand why this is so hard to see.

The Pacers defense will still be operating under the same system and concepts. It will still be good. Maybe not QUITE as good as last year, but who knows? Maybe the introduction of SJax into lineup will have greater affect than people are expecting.

And on offense, we'll go from a slow plodding offense into a more exciting, passing, cutting and wide open game which will be great to watch. Losing Artest on offense, we lose his tendency to monopolize the ball, take bad shots, his bad passing ability, and poor outside shooting, for Peja, who brings unequalled outside shooting, excellent passing, which will encourage player movement and make us very hard to defend.

I sure hope it happens, because I think it will make the Pacers a better team, and that is exciting to think about.

Mourning
08-09-2004, 04:58 PM
"Maybe not QUITE as good as last year, but who knows?"

Want to place a bet on that?:devil:

;)

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Arcadian
08-09-2004, 05:04 PM
Players who play hard make their teammates play harder.

Losing both Ron and Al will definately impact how hard the team plays. I thought that would be obvious. You need players who will sacrifice their bodies and to be physical. It is infectious with the team. I don't know about Jack but I know that is not what Peja brings.

Mourning
08-09-2004, 05:11 PM
Players who play hard make their teammates play harder.

Losing both Ron and Al will definately impact how hard the team plays. I thought that would be obvious. You need players who will sacrifice their bodies and to be physical. It is infectious with the team. I don't know about Jack but I know that is not what Peja brings.

Yup! Aggreed! The staff has a great impact, but so do players like Artest. He sort of sets the example or standard if you like that puts some pressure on others to give it that little extra aswell.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

PistonsDynasty
08-09-2004, 05:33 PM
Ron at least continued to shut down players defensively and had a decent playoffs...but Peja just crumbled....losing Artest is going to make us lose our defensive abilities. People don't understand...both us and Detroit were the two best defensive teams in the league and now without Ronnie Detroit will dominate the league defensively and we will not be able to like Detroit can :(

You mean the Pistons and Spurs? They were tied for the best defense in the NBA. Also defense wins championships. The Pacers problem was they were giving up to many points. If Rip can drop 20+ on Artest he'll be abble to drop 35+ on Peja.

Mourning
08-09-2004, 05:41 PM
"You mean the Pistons and Spurs? They were tied for the best defense in the NBA. Also defense wins championships. The Pacers problem was they were giving up to many points. If Rip can drop 20+ on Artest he'll be abble to drop 35+ on Peja."

No, wrong we were not scoring enough ourselves from the outside which is why we got Jackson! Another reason was multiple injuries to keyplayers, and yes, that is a valid excuse IMO. Though I will without a doubt admit that the Pistons are a GREAT TEAM and probably would have won in the end, but a 7-game series it would have been, I think in that with the difference in that game beying more experience on the Pistons aswell as a slightly better defence and a little luck and maybe some sloppiness from our side. Alas that never happenned. And, yes, the best defensive teams were in order:

1) Pistons
2) Spurs
3) Pacers

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

bulletproof
08-09-2004, 06:43 PM
I saw this post on another board and thought it might be appropriate here (anyway, I liked it):

There are pro's and con's to every trade. And because of the lunacy by some of the Artest backers, I'm going to address the pros.

First of all, Peja was a top candidate for MVP for nearly 3/4's of the regular season before his stock slowly fell (I know he eventually finished fourth, but he was ahead of JO in votes for most of the season). Well, what caused the drop-off for the final quarter? The return of Chris Webber. With Webber in the line-up, the overall team chemistry changed and the ball was no longer going through Peja, but through Webber. The offense became stagnant, and when the going got tough, guys stopped fighting for one another. Thus the loss to Minnesota. And the criticism spread throughout the locker-room and eventually into the media. "Peja's reluctant to shoot!" "Peja chokes as Sacramento goes down!"

Here's my question to the board: Did anyone see a similar demise with the Pacers' Ron Artest during our clutch time in the post-season? Remember these headlines: "Ron loses cool...decks Hamilton in 4th to seal fate!" "Ron shoots horrid 29% from field and 19% from the 3 in Conference Finals!"

It's the same thing, only Ron's problem was more mental, whereas Peja simply had trouble fighting for a team leader who was selfish and uncompromising on the floor.

We're not trading for Peja to thrust him into the role as team leader. He isn't going to be a vocal catalyst, or someone to stir up the guys in the locker room. His job will be to play defense and spread the defense by making them respect the outside shot, which, by the way, he will hit at a high percentage.

More importantly, the Pacers lose the headache of a player who aggressively sticks to his own agenda. Ron, while behaving most of the season, forced himself into the role of a scoring threat. During stretches where we really would have preferred him to help us spread the ball around, he would drive head first to the hoop with reckless abandon.

Honestly, how many times last season when Ron had the ball would you go, "No...no...no...Ron....No!....uhh....good shot...whew...good friggin' shot (sigh)."

I honestly feel that with Peja we will see a much more fluent offense. You'll see the number of offensive fouls we produce over the course of one game drop. And you'll see more fast break opportunities. And frankly, jump shots always kill Detroit. We had a "go straight at you" squad last season and Detroit had the bigger bodies and won the shooting battle hands down. With the team that we're trying to assemble, we're forcing Detroit to come at us. We'll win that battle hands down if we follow through with this trade.

And finally, all the talk about Ron's desire to win and his defensive prowess...Please! I think we're all handicapped by the fact that we haven't seen Stephen Jackson in a Pacers uniform. His and Artests' productivity are nearly identical and Stephen's will to win is evident by his clutch shooting and swagger under pressure. Not only that, but defensively, he has quicker feet than Ron and can better handle the quicker perimeter players we'll meet next season. So, when it comes to our toughest competition next seasonóthe world champsóJackson is much better suited to guard Hamilton. And if anyone thinks Peja will have trouble guarding Tayshun...well....nevermind.

Roy Munson
08-09-2004, 06:50 PM
I saw this post on another board and thought it might be appropriate here (anyway, I liked it):

There are pro's and con's to every trade. And because of the lunacy by some of the Artest backers, I'm going to address the pros.

First of all, Peja was a top candidate for MVP for nearly 3/4's of the regular season before his stock slowly fell (I know he eventually finished fourth, but he was ahead of JO in votes for most of the season). Well, what caused the drop-off for the final quarter? The return of Chris Webber. With Webber in the line-up, the overall team chemistry changed and the ball was no longer going through Peja, but through Webber. The offense became stagnant, and when the going got tough, guys stopped fighting for one another. Thus the loss to Minnesota. And the criticism spread throughout the locker-room and eventually into the media. "Peja's reluctant to shoot!" "Peja chokes as Sacramento goes down!"

Here's my question to the board: Did anyone see a similar demise with the Pacers' Ron Artest during our clutch time in the post-season? Remember these headlines: "Ron loses cool...decks Hamilton in 4th to seal fate!" "Ron shoots horrid 29% from field and 19% from the 3 in Conference Finals!"

It's the same thing, only Ron's problem was more mental, whereas Peja simply had trouble fighting for a team leader who was selfish and uncompromising on the floor.

We're not trading for Peja to thrust him into the role as team leader. He isn't going to be a vocal catalyst, or someone to stir up the guys in the locker room. His job will be to play defense and spread the defense by making them respect the outside shot, which, by the way, he will hit at a high percentage.

More importantly, the Pacers lose the headache of a player who aggressively sticks to his own agenda. Ron, while behaving most of the season, forced himself into the role of a scoring threat. During stretches where we really would have preferred him to help us spread the ball around, he would drive head first to the hoop with reckless abandon.

Honestly, how many times last season when Ron had the ball would you go, "No...no...no...Ron....No!....uhh....good shot...whew...good friggin' shot (sigh)."

I honestly feel that with Peja we will see a much more fluent offense. You'll see the number of offensive fouls we produce over the course of one game drop. And you'll see more fast break opportunities. And frankly, jump shots always kill Detroit. We had a "go straight at you" squad last season and Detroit had the bigger bodies and won the shooting battle hands down. With the team that we're trying to assemble, we're forcing Detroit to come at us. We'll win that battle hands down if we follow through with this trade.

And finally, all the talk about Ron's desire to win and his defensive prowess...Please! I think we're all handicapped by the fact that we haven't seen Stephen Jackson in a Pacers uniform. His and Artests' productivity are nearly identical and Stephen's will to win is evident by his clutch shooting and swagger under pressure. Not only that, but defensively, he has quicker feet than Ron and can better handle the quicker perimeter players we'll meet next season. So, when it comes to our toughest competition next seasonóthe world champsóJackson is much better suited to guard Hamilton. And if anyone thinks Peja will have trouble guarding Tayshun...well....nevermind.


YES!!!

Excellent points.

I sure hope this happens.

Roy Munson
08-09-2004, 06:50 PM
I saw this post on another board and thought it might be appropriate here (anyway, I liked it):

There are pro's and con's to every trade. And because of the lunacy by some of the Artest backers, I'm going to address the pros.

First of all, Peja was a top candidate for MVP for nearly 3/4's of the regular season before his stock slowly fell (I know he eventually finished fourth, but he was ahead of JO in votes for most of the season). Well, what caused the drop-off for the final quarter? The return of Chris Webber. With Webber in the line-up, the overall team chemistry changed and the ball was no longer going through Peja, but through Webber. The offense became stagnant, and when the going got tough, guys stopped fighting for one another. Thus the loss to Minnesota. And the criticism spread throughout the locker-room and eventually into the media. "Peja's reluctant to shoot!" "Peja chokes as Sacramento goes down!"

Here's my question to the board: Did anyone see a similar demise with the Pacers' Ron Artest during our clutch time in the post-season? Remember these headlines: "Ron loses cool...decks Hamilton in 4th to seal fate!" "Ron shoots horrid 29% from field and 19% from the 3 in Conference Finals!"

It's the same thing, only Ron's problem was more mental, whereas Peja simply had trouble fighting for a team leader who was selfish and uncompromising on the floor.

We're not trading for Peja to thrust him into the role as team leader. He isn't going to be a vocal catalyst, or someone to stir up the guys in the locker room. His job will be to play defense and spread the defense by making them respect the outside shot, which, by the way, he will hit at a high percentage.

More importantly, the Pacers lose the headache of a player who aggressively sticks to his own agenda. Ron, while behaving most of the season, forced himself into the role of a scoring threat. During stretches where we really would have preferred him to help us spread the ball around, he would drive head first to the hoop with reckless abandon.

Honestly, how many times last season when Ron had the ball would you go, "No...no...no...Ron....No!....uhh....good shot...whew...good friggin' shot (sigh)."

I honestly feel that with Peja we will see a much more fluent offense. You'll see the number of offensive fouls we produce over the course of one game drop. And you'll see more fast break opportunities. And frankly, jump shots always kill Detroit. We had a "go straight at you" squad last season and Detroit had the bigger bodies and won the shooting battle hands down. With the team that we're trying to assemble, we're forcing Detroit to come at us. We'll win that battle hands down if we follow through with this trade.

And finally, all the talk about Ron's desire to win and his defensive prowess...Please! I think we're all handicapped by the fact that we haven't seen Stephen Jackson in a Pacers uniform. His and Artests' productivity are nearly identical and Stephen's will to win is evident by his clutch shooting and swagger under pressure. Not only that, but defensively, he has quicker feet than Ron and can better handle the quicker perimeter players we'll meet next season. So, when it comes to our toughest competition next seasonóthe world champsóJackson is much better suited to guard Hamilton. And if anyone thinks Peja will have trouble guarding Tayshun...well....nevermind.


YES!!!

Excellent points.

I sure hope this happens.

Hoop
08-09-2004, 07:01 PM
Ron at least continued to shut down players defensively and had a decent playoffs...but Peja just crumbled....losing Artest is going to make us lose our defensive abilities. People don't understand...both us and Detroit were the two best defensive teams in the league and now without Ronnie Detroit will dominate the league defensively and we will not be able to like Detroit can :(

Are you kidding? "Ron....had a decent playoffs"???? What were you watching? He disintegrated, mentally.

Peja might not have been hitting his shots, but he didn't completely lose focus of what the team was trying to, and he didn't completely start hogging the ball and throwing up terrible shots.


I wouldn't say Ron disintegrated, he struggled against the Pistons, but so did everyone else. He had a great first 2 rounds of the playoffs. It was not solely Ron's fault we lost to the Pistons, like your trying to make it sound..


Playoffs - First 2 Rounds

Peja
RD1 PTs 18.2 - FG% 42.2 - 3PT% 28.6 - REB 8.8 - APG 1.4
RD2 PTs 17.0 - FG% 35.7 - 3PT% 34.2 - REB 5.7 - APG 1.6

Ron
RD1 PTs 20.3 - FG% 41.8 - 3PT% 30.8 - REB 5.0 - APG 4.3
RD2 PTs 21.3 - FG% 44.0 - 3PT% 40.9 - REB 5.5 - APG 3.5

Ron carried the Pacers the first 2 rounds and completely shut down Paul Pierce and Caron Butler.

Peja was the 3rd scorer for the Kings in the first 2 rounds and failed miserably to even come close to his regular season numbers and I doubt he shut down anybody....or ever will.

SycamoreKen
08-09-2004, 08:07 PM
I think both players faltered in the playoffs for different reasons, much of which was out of their control.

A big part of Peja's problem was that he had a coach that didn't have the guts ot stand up to his still gimpy star and say we are winning this way and you need to come on board. Instead, he totally changed his teams style and they fell hard.

I think Ron fell victum of thinking he had to do everything after Tins and J.O. got hurt. Think about it, was there anyone else on the team that showed any reliability all year outside of Ron and J.O.? The flagrant was dumb, but a flop job as much as anything. I think Ron will learn from this and come back better for it this season. He has shown he can improve. Jackson gives Coach Rick the option of pulling Ron out if he starts killing the offense. We didn't have that luxary last season.

Right now, I would rather stand pat than make the trade. I really want to see how the addition of Jackson helps the team. We really need another big more than we need Peja.

Hicks
08-09-2004, 08:12 PM
I want to know how many 3 point attempts Ron made in each game of each round of the playoffs.

Same for 2p FGs.

And then the same for Peja.

SycamoreKen
08-09-2004, 08:16 PM
Here are Ron's:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ron_artest/game_by_game_stats.html

Here are Peja's:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/predrag_stojakovic/game_by_game_stats.html

AleksandarN
08-09-2004, 10:24 PM
Ron at least continued to shut down players defensively and had a decent playoffs...but Peja just crumbled....losing Artest is going to make us lose our defensive abilities. People don't understand...both us and Detroit were the two best defensive teams in the league and now without Ronnie Detroit will dominate the league defensively and we will not be able to like Detroit can :(

Are you kidding? "Ron....had a decent playoffs"???? What were you watching? He disintegrated, mentally.

Peja might not have been hitting his shots, but he didn't completely lose focus of what the team was trying to, and he didn't completely start hogging the ball and throwing up terrible shots.


I wouldn't say Ron disintegrated, he struggled against the Pistons, but so did everyone else. He had a great first 2 rounds of the playoffs. It was not solely Ron's fault we lost to the Pistons, like your trying to make it sound..


Playoffs - First 2 Rounds

Peja
RD1 PTs 18.2 - FG% 42.2 - 3PT% 28.6 - REB 8.8 - APG 1.4
RD2 PTs 17.0 - FG% 35.7 - 3PT% 34.2 - REB 5.7 - APG 1.6

Ron
RD1 PTs 20.3 - FG% 41.8 - 3PT% 30.8 - REB 5.0 - APG 4.3
RD2 PTs 21.3 - FG% 44.0 - 3PT% 40.9 - REB 5.5 - APG 3.5

Ron carried the Pacers the first 2 rounds and completely shut down Paul Pierce and Caron Butler.

Peja was the 3rd scorer for the Kings in the first 2 rounds and failed miserably to even come close to his regular season numbers and I doubt he shut down anybody....or ever will.

I just would like to reply to this statement. DId you even watch the Kings last year in the playoffs?

I would like to give you the following links so this might enlighten some of you on Pedja's defence

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240420023

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240426006

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240429023

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playo...tory?id=1791956

Did you see what Pedja did in the Dallas sieres? He was the one to shut down Nash Finely and Dirk in final plays of each of those game. You can not say that I person who plays no defense can produce such results. If that is not shuting down DAllas's big guns at the important moments then I do not what it means to to shut someone down then.:confused:

Hoop
08-09-2004, 11:17 PM
Ron at least continued to shut down players defensively and had a decent playoffs...but Peja just crumbled....losing Artest is going to make us lose our defensive abilities. People don't understand...both us and Detroit were the two best defensive teams in the league and now without Ronnie Detroit will dominate the league defensively and we will not be able to like Detroit can :(

Are you kidding? "Ron....had a decent playoffs"???? What were you watching? He disintegrated, mentally.

Peja might not have been hitting his shots, but he didn't completely lose focus of what the team was trying to, and he didn't completely start hogging the ball and throwing up terrible shots.


I wouldn't say Ron disintegrated, he struggled against the Pistons, but so did everyone else. He had a great first 2 rounds of the playoffs. It was not solely Ron's fault we lost to the Pistons, like your trying to make it sound..


Playoffs - First 2 Rounds

Peja
RD1 PTs 18.2 - FG% 42.2 - 3PT% 28.6 - REB 8.8 - APG 1.4
RD2 PTs 17.0 - FG% 35.7 - 3PT% 34.2 - REB 5.7 - APG 1.6

Ron
RD1 PTs 20.3 - FG% 41.8 - 3PT% 30.8 - REB 5.0 - APG 4.3
RD2 PTs 21.3 - FG% 44.0 - 3PT% 40.9 - REB 5.5 - APG 3.5

Ron carried the Pacers the first 2 rounds and completely shut down Paul Pierce and Caron Butler.

Peja was the 3rd scorer for the Kings in the first 2 rounds and failed miserably to even come close to his regular season numbers and I doubt he shut down anybody....or ever will.

I just would like to reply to this statement. DId you even watch the Kings last year in the playoffs?

I would like to give you the following links so this might enlighten some of you on Pedja's defence

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240420023

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240426006

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240429023

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playo...tory?id=1791956

Did you see what Pedja did in the Dallas sieres? He was the one to shut down Nash Finely and Dirk in final plays of each of those game. You can not say that I person who plays no defense can produce such results. If that is not shuting down DAllas's big guns at the important moments then I do not what it means to to shut someone down then.:confused:


You following me ;) Yes, I watched most of Sacto's games and have for several years and I still don't think Peja does much beside shoot the ball and he hasn't done that very well in the playoffs.

Unclebuck
08-10-2004, 12:45 AM
Roy: Artest is not a bad passer, infact I think he was the second best passer on the Pacers team last season.

After reading the forum today I have concluded one thing. Artest sucks, he is a liability offensively, his defense is pretty good but the system makes his defense what it is,

After reading all of this why in the hell would the Kings even entertain the idea of trading the great MVP candidate for the loser Artest.

And how in the hell did the Pacers win 61 games this past season.

Mourning
08-10-2004, 01:20 AM
Ok, so Peja, the super 3pt scorer "only" had 3 games in a 7-game series against Minnesota in which he shot 0 (:o) 3 pointers (mind you he did attempt them!)!!!

Hey, thats great! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: In addition this superman also has averaged a lower 3PT shooting in the first 2 rounds than Ron has, while only having a VERY marginally better FG% in the 1st round and a lesser FG% in the 2nd round. But, hey, you all know Peja will be our 25-30 points a game scorer and Ron wont even manage 20 while only shutting down the leagues top-shooters about half of the time IF not more.

Sure, his coach screwed up, but than STILL... 7 games, 3 games with 0 3 pointers! 0!!!

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Mourning
08-10-2004, 01:23 AM
Oh yeah, Peja also in that series score twice below 10 points, 8 both times. Ron hasnt scored less than 11 in the whole play-offs and as seen above the FG% and 3PT shooting argument thrown around by some looks pretty ... BOGUS!

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

TheSauceMaster
08-10-2004, 09:34 AM
I would rather those who are in favor of this possible trade simply say that Ronnie causes too many problems and those problems hurt the team. Because any other arguments I have read today are nonsense.

Why not just admit that yes the pacers defense won't be as good without Ronnie, and yet the team will lose a lot of toughness and energy without Ronnie. Please don't try to argue otherwise



Thanks , you saved me from reading a whole rubbish thread.

I sure didn't hear too many complaints before game 6 of the ECF about Ron and now that's all you hear , I guess the theroy we win as a team and lose as a team has lost that concept somehwere in all this madness.

Mourning
08-10-2004, 01:18 PM
Kings fan here -

From our perspective having Peja request a trade comes as a shock. He's so low key & easy going and it really came out of left field. It's left us looking @ him in a different light.

I'm one of those season tix holder die hard Kings fans. My husband & I flew with 2 of our friends to Minny for the game 7 of the WC semis. Saying all that to say we watched every second of every Kings game and the post season. If you would of asked me @ the end of last season who I was the most disappointed in I would say hands down Peja. He was deer in the headlights for all of the post season. The final game he scored 8 or 9 points after averaging 25 in the reg season. We had seen this from him in the past but this was the year he really needed to step up & play tough...and it just wasn't there.

This was the 1st year that Peja ever received criticism in the press or from the fans. He's always had Vlade around as the big brother & Webb has always taken the heat for any team troubles. Peja didn't like being in the hot seat to much.

Show me a post season in Peja's 6 years with the Kings where he stepped up. You can't. Rick Fox flustered him on 01 & 02. Trenton Hassell had his way with him last season. This is Peja's track record as an NBA player in the post season.

As a player on the Yugo National team he achieved a lifelong goal of winning the World Championship in 2002. The importance of doing that can not be overstated. Hard to fathom but in some ways it was more important to him than winning an NBA championship.

Now fast forward to this off season and his desire to get traded leaks out. What is the 1 team he has said he'd love to play for? The Chicago Bulls. why? He 1) loves the city; 2)large Serbian population there & 3) He played for coach Scott Skiles when he was in Greece. Where is his heart & desire to win a NBA championship if you say you'd LOVE to play for a cellar dweller team?

As intense as Artest is.....Peja is lowkey and at this point in his career he's got to get a tougher mindset. Maybe Bird could draw that out of him ....but maybe he just doesn't have it when it comes to playing for the NBA.



Thank you, nice to hear something from a hardcore SacTown fan who looks more critical at Peja than the average fan of the Kings probably would.

Welcome to the forum btw;).

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Mourning
08-10-2004, 01:20 PM
I would rather those who are in favor of this possible trade simply say that Ronnie causes too many problems and those problems hurt the team. Because any other arguments I have read today are nonsense.

Why not just admit that yes the pacers defense won't be as good without Ronnie, and yet the team will lose a lot of toughness and energy without Ronnie. Please don't try to argue otherwise



Thanks , you saved me from reading a whole rubbish thread.

I sure didn't hear too many complaints before game 6 of the ECF about Ron and now that's all you hear , I guess the theroy we win as a team and lose as a team has lost that concept somehwere in all this madness.



:amen::thumbup:

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Hoop
08-10-2004, 06:45 PM
Kings fan here -

From our perspective having Peja request a trade comes as a shock. He's so low key & easy going and it really came out of left field. It's left us looking @ him in a different light.

I'm one of those season tix holder die hard Kings fans. My husband & I flew with 2 of our friends to Minny for the game 7 of the WC semis. Saying all that to say we watched every second of every Kings game and the post season. If you would of asked me @ the end of last season who I was the most disappointed in I would say hands down Peja. He was deer in the headlights for all of the post season. The final game he scored 8 or 9 points after averaging 25 in the reg season. We had seen this from him in the past but this was the year he really needed to step up & play tough...and it just wasn't there.

This was the 1st year that Peja ever received criticism in the press or from the fans. He's always had Vlade around as the big brother & Webb has always taken the heat for any team troubles. Peja didn't like being in the hot seat to much.

Show me a post season in Peja's 6 years with the Kings where he stepped up. You can't. Rick Fox flustered him on 01 & 02. Trenton Hassell had his way with him last season. This is Peja's track record as an NBA player in the post season.

As a player on the Yugo National team he achieved a lifelong goal of winning the World Championship in 2002. The importance of doing that can not be overstated. Hard to fathom but in some ways it was more important to him than winning an NBA championship.

Now fast forward to this off season and his desire to get traded leaks out. What is the 1 team he has said he'd love to play for? The Chicago Bulls. why? He 1) loves the city; 2)large Serbian population there & 3) He played for coach Scott Skiles when he was in Greece. Where is his heart & desire to win a NBA championship if you say you'd LOVE to play for a cellar dweller team?

As intense as Artest is.....Peja is lowkey and at this point in his career he's got to get a tougher mindset. Maybe Bird could draw that out of him ....but maybe he just doesn't have it when it comes to playing for the NBA.



Diehard Pacer season ticket holder here.
Thanks for posting and stop back in anytime, especially when the season starts. We already have some regular posters that are Piston fans and Sixer fans. We love having outside opinions and we have good mods that stop flaming wars before they begin.

Personally I hope this trade does not happen, it could be bad for both teams in the long run.

Unclebuck
08-10-2004, 11:32 PM
Kings fan here -

From our perspective having Peja request a trade comes as a shock. He's so low key & easy going and it really came out of left field. It's left us looking @ him in a different light.

I'm one of those season tix holder die hard Kings fans. My husband & I flew with 2 of our friends to Minny for the game 7 of the WC semis. Saying all that to say we watched every second of every Kings game and the post season. If you would of asked me @ the end of last season who I was the most disappointed in I would say hands down Peja. He was deer in the headlights for all of the post season. The final game he scored 8 or 9 points after averaging 25 in the reg season. We had seen this from him in the past but this was the year he really needed to step up & play tough...and it just wasn't there.

This was the 1st year that Peja ever received criticism in the press or from the fans. He's always had Vlade around as the big brother & Webb has always taken the heat for any team troubles. Peja didn't like being in the hot seat to much.

Show me a post season in Peja's 6 years with the Kings where he stepped up. You can't. Rick Fox flustered him on 01 & 02. Trenton Hassell had his way with him last season. This is Peja's track record as an NBA player in the post season.

As a player on the Yugo National team he achieved a lifelong goal of winning the World Championship in 2002. The importance of doing that can not be overstated. Hard to fathom but in some ways it was more important to him than winning an NBA championship.

Now fast forward to this off season and his desire to get traded leaks out. What is the 1 team he has said he'd love to play for? The Chicago Bulls. why? He 1) loves the city; 2)large Serbian population there & 3) He played for coach Scott Skiles when he was in Greece. Where is his heart & desire to win a NBA championship if you say you'd LOVE to play for a cellar dweller team?

As intense as Artest is.....Peja is lowkey and at this point in his career he's got to get a tougher mindset. Maybe Bird could draw that out of him ....but maybe he just doesn't have it when it comes to playing for the NBA.




This post needs to be read by everyone

bulletproof
08-10-2004, 11:38 PM
Kings fan here -

From our perspective having Peja request a trade comes as a shock. He's so low key & easy going and it really came out of left field. It's left us looking @ him in a different light.

I'm one of those season tix holder die hard Kings fans. My husband & I flew with 2 of our friends to Minny for the game 7 of the WC semis. Saying all that to say we watched every second of every Kings game and the post season. If you would of asked me @ the end of last season who I was the most disappointed in I would say hands down Peja. He was deer in the headlights for all of the post season. The final game he scored 8 or 9 points after averaging 25 in the reg season. We had seen this from him in the past but this was the year he really needed to step up & play tough...and it just wasn't there.

This was the 1st year that Peja ever received criticism in the press or from the fans. He's always had Vlade around as the big brother & Webb has always taken the heat for any team troubles. Peja didn't like being in the hot seat to much.

Show me a post season in Peja's 6 years with the Kings where he stepped up. You can't. Rick Fox flustered him on 01 & 02. Trenton Hassell had his way with him last season. This is Peja's track record as an NBA player in the post season.

As a player on the Yugo National team he achieved a lifelong goal of winning the World Championship in 2002. The importance of doing that can not be overstated. Hard to fathom but in some ways it was more important to him than winning an NBA championship.

Now fast forward to this off season and his desire to get traded leaks out. What is the 1 team he has said he'd love to play for? The Chicago Bulls. why? He 1) loves the city; 2)large Serbian population there & 3) He played for coach Scott Skiles when he was in Greece. Where is his heart & desire to win a NBA championship if you say you'd LOVE to play for a cellar dweller team?

As intense as Artest is.....Peja is lowkey and at this point in his career he's got to get a tougher mindset. Maybe Bird could draw that out of him ....but maybe he just doesn't have it when it comes to playing for the NBA.




This post needs to be read by everyone



Funny you didn't say that about the other Kings' fan who came here and posted something positive about Peja. It's just one person's opinion.

Unclebuck
08-10-2004, 11:40 PM
Kings fan here -

From our perspective having Peja request a trade comes as a shock. He's so low key & easy going and it really came out of left field. It's left us looking @ him in a different light.

I'm one of those season tix holder die hard Kings fans. My husband & I flew with 2 of our friends to Minny for the game 7 of the WC semis. Saying all that to say we watched every second of every Kings game and the post season. If you would of asked me @ the end of last season who I was the most disappointed in I would say hands down Peja. He was deer in the headlights for all of the post season. The final game he scored 8 or 9 points after averaging 25 in the reg season. We had seen this from him in the past but this was the year he really needed to step up & play tough...and it just wasn't there.

This was the 1st year that Peja ever received criticism in the press or from the fans. He's always had Vlade around as the big brother & Webb has always taken the heat for any team troubles. Peja didn't like being in the hot seat to much.

Show me a post season in Peja's 6 years with the Kings where he stepped up. You can't. Rick Fox flustered him on 01 & 02. Trenton Hassell had his way with him last season. This is Peja's track record as an NBA player in the post season.

As a player on the Yugo National team he achieved a lifelong goal of winning the World Championship in 2002. The importance of doing that can not be overstated. Hard to fathom but in some ways it was more important to him than winning an NBA championship.

Now fast forward to this off season and his desire to get traded leaks out. What is the 1 team he has said he'd love to play for? The Chicago Bulls. why? He 1) loves the city; 2)large Serbian population there & 3) He played for coach Scott Skiles when he was in Greece. Where is his heart & desire to win a NBA championship if you say you'd LOVE to play for a cellar dweller team?

As intense as Artest is.....Peja is lowkey and at this point in his career he's got to get a tougher mindset. Maybe Bird could draw that out of him ....but maybe he just doesn't have it when it comes to playing for the NBA.




This post needs to be read by everyone



Funny you didn't say that about the other Kings' fan who came here and posted something positive about Peja. It's just one person's opinion.





Not true, not true, in the post by a King's fan complimenting Peja defense, I posted that I agreed Peja's defense is underrated