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View Full Version : I leave town for 2 days and all heck breaks loose



Unclebuck
08-08-2004, 12:43 AM
I have been away since Thursday morning, spending some much needed time away with the family at a northern Indiana lake. I was having a great time too until about 3:00 today when my mom tells me "the Pacers traded Ron Artest" I say for who, she says for some guy from California, I ask for Peja?, she goes no some guy with a long last name. Well yes we finally decide it has to be Peja.

So I turn on ESPN, don't see anything about an NBA trade, but I figured now thatthe NFL season has "started" ESPN might not have any time to mention NBA stuff.

I finally decide that it must just be another rumor, and decide I will never trust a pontoon boat source again. My mom announced this trade after she got off a pontoon boat ride with a friend from across the lake.


So I get home tonight and check this forum and see that it is still a rumor but a strong rumor.

I have read almost every post in this forum about the Peja for Artest possible trade. And while I don't like the trade I do trust Larry, Donnie and Rick to make the right decisions. it would appear they have reached the end of their rope with Ronnie.

Let me say this about Peja. I have always thought his offense was overrated and his defense underrated.

Can he did anything offensively besides shoot the ball? . I don't think so. Has he been a clutch shooter in his career? I don't think so.

Why has he struggled so badly in the playoffs? There is a very simple explanation. When teams focus as they do in the playoffs on one opponent, they can devise a scheme to control Peja. Basically he is shut down because his defender does not leave him. Peja needs a lot of shots to get into a groove. if he does not get shots in the first three quarters he won't hit the 4th quarter shots.

Defense. Yes I think he is underrated. The Kings were poor defensively because their interior defense is horrible. Their perimeter defense is good. Christie and Jackson are superb, Bibby and Peja are good defenders.

I have seen Peja play good one-on-one defense a lot of times, granted Christie always guarded the better offensive player, but I think with the right coaching and a good defensive system Peja will be fine defensively.

Sorry I have to cut this short, I am tired and sun-burned.

Let me mention one other thing. Artest got to the free throw line a lot so did AL, if the Pacers replace AL and Ron with Peja and Jax I really worry about games of 18 freee throw attempts per game for the whole team. FT attempts IMO are hugely important.

sweabs
08-08-2004, 12:49 AM
Let me mention one other thing. Artest got to the free throw line a lot so did AL, if the Pacers replace AL and Ron with Peja and Jax I really worry about games of 18 freee throw attempts per game for the whole team. FT attempts IMO are hugely important.

Real interesting point.

You are correct - free throws are a big part of winning games...and Peja will not cut to the basket and bang down low like Ron did for us (which often resulted in going to the line). Not only will we suffer on the defensive end from a lack of aggressiveness, but the consequences will also be revealed on the offensive end.

TheSauceMaster
08-08-2004, 12:52 AM
Always another Great Information Filled Post by UncleBuck , I couldstay away any longer from my extended break and as usual right on target with comments.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:: thumbsup::thumbsup:

bulletproof
08-08-2004, 08:31 AM
Let me mention one other thing. Artest got to the free throw line a lot so did AL, if the Pacers replace AL and Ron with Peja and Jax I really worry about games of 18 free throw attempts per game for the whole team. FT attempts IMO are hugely important.

Real interesting point.

You are correct - free throws are a big part of winning games...and Peja will not cut to the basket and bang down low like Ron did for us (which often resulted in going to the line). Not only will we suffer on the defensive end from a lack of aggressiveness, but the consequences will also be revealed on the offensive end.

What the hell are you guys talking about?

Here are the combined free throw numbers for Jackson/Peja:

.868 FT% (627/722)

Harrington/Artest:

.729 FT% (504/691)


Not only do they go to the line more, they have a considerably higher combined percentage.

indygeezer
08-08-2004, 08:33 AM
Question UB. How are Peja's ball-handling skills? (WTH is going on with my screen? It split! anyway) I ask because IMO with TWO outside options (PJ and Sax) the interior is going to open up alot and if PJ can make a good entry pass then JO and even Jeff are going to get alot more bunny opportunities with the "and 1" because of late help defense.

Kegboy
08-08-2004, 12:43 PM
Let me mention one other thing. Artest got to the free throw line a lot so did AL, if the Pacers replace AL and Ron with Peja and Jax I really worry about games of 18 free throw attempts per game for the whole team. FT attempts IMO are hugely important.

Real interesting point.

You are correct - free throws are a big part of winning games...and Peja will not cut to the basket and bang down low like Ron did for us (which often resulted in going to the line). Not only will we suffer on the defensive end from a lack of aggressiveness, but the consequences will also be revealed on the offensive end.

What the hell are you guys talking about?

Here are the combined free throw numbers for Jackson/Peja:

.868 FT% (627/722)

Harrington/Artest:

.729 FT% (504/691)


Not only do they go to the line more, they have a considerably higher combined percentage.



Once again you're comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they shoot a much higher percentage, there's no debating that.

However, they were BOTH the #1 option on their respective teams. Of course they'd get fouled more than our 2nd and 3rd guys, which is what they'd be here.

Actually, there's more. P/S shot 31 more FT's, right? Well, they also played in 9 more games (161-152) and played more minutes per (77.1-68.1).

You factor that in with them running in high-octane offenses, and they should have had a lot more FTA's than they did.

Of course, to counter my own argument, you could say that they were fouled less because opponents know they're such good shooters, and likewise Ron/Al were fouled more because they're not. But there's more to FTA's than scoring points. It's also getting opponents in foul trouble.

ChicagoJ
08-08-2004, 01:24 PM
UB, in your absence, I've tried to avoid concluding whether I'm "For" or "Against" this particular rumor.

I know you love Ron, but assuming, as you said, "it would appear they [DW, Bird, Rick] have reached the end of their rope with Ronnie"; and if you put your "objective" hat on, do you think the Pacers could realistically do better than Peja for Ron? In other words, is that "fair value", in your opinion?

I'll check back later tonight... Samantha and I are going to go outside play basketball and she's insisting that I be "the red team." Four-years olds. :shakehead:

Sollozzo
08-08-2004, 01:43 PM
Incase anyone is wondering, here are the freethrow statistics for Peja and SJax in 02-03, when they werent the first options on the team.

Peja-231/264 freethrows, 87.5 percent
Jackson-139/183, 76 percent

Combined- 370-447, 83 percent

Unclebuck
08-08-2004, 02:01 PM
"it would appear they [DW, Bird, Rick] have reached the end of their rope with Ronnie"; and if you put your "objective" hat on, do you think the Pacers could realistically do better than Peja for Ron? In other words, is that "fair value", in your opinion?



Peja is not my type of player. I don't like one-dimensional players. (yes I know Reggie is one-dimensional, but he is so clutch). I never considered Peja a legitimate MVP candidate just like I never considered Dirk a legitimate MVP candidate.

If you are asking me what type of player is my ideal player. Ron Artest is my ideal player minus the extra stuff he gets involved in that effects the team and the occasional times when he tries to do too much offensively. But there are no perfect players, but Ron is very close IMO.

I would rather have Paul Pierce than Peja. IMO Pierce is just a better player.

Sorry Jay I guess I am dancing around your question.

"Could the Pacers do better than Peja". I don't know, probably not

"Is it fair value". I suppose. If this trade takes place I expect the national media to be split about 50% / 50% on who got the better end of the deal.


The key question to me is this:

Is J.O and Peja better than J.O and Artest. NO. I am a huge believer that a team is only as good as your best 2 players.

MSA2CF
08-08-2004, 02:03 PM
Hey UB, I actually agree with you about everything you wrote in your 2,740 post. :o

Hoop
08-08-2004, 07:52 PM
Hey UB, I actually agree with you about everything you wrote in your 2,740 post. :o
Me Too ! :scream:

Kegboy
08-08-2004, 09:04 PM
The problem with Pierce is, we'd have to give up more to get him, since he's got a max contract. Now, granted if that could be Austin or Pollard, then that'd be alright. I just don't like having two max guys on your team. Screws up your whole salary structure.

DisplacedKnick
08-09-2004, 10:26 AM
Don't worry UB - I left Thurs AM and got back last night and found that the Crawford trade rumors I've been following religiously for the last month finally happened. I'll be gone for a few days over Labor Day - if we get Dampier it'll be then.

Slick Pinkham
08-09-2004, 10:40 AM
"Could the Pacers do better than Peja". I don't know, probably not

"Is it fair value". I suppose. If this trade takes place I expect the national media to be split about 50% / 50% on who got the better end of the deal.




I've asked the question directly on other basketball forums: If Artest is traded 1-for-1 for Peja, who gets the better end of the deal?"

While opinions are mixed, there is a clear majority (>2:1) saying the Pacers would get the better end of the deal.

I know, people overrate offense.

But it is a decent trade IF management has decided to move him. Salary is important-- I'd rather not have another MAX money player for Ron, and Peja's relatively low salary adds opportunity to retain a deep bench.

Once again, I'd rather not do any deal for Ron, but this is probably the best we could do, if Donnie Bird insists that he must go.

indygeezer
08-09-2004, 11:12 AM
BTW...this morning ESPN 950 (local outlet) said it was Ron + James Jones for Peja (guess we just don't wanna increase salary one iota)