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PacerCrazy
08-07-2004, 09:46 AM
Here is today's star article.

http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/168459-4016-179.html

Stojakovic appears good fit for Pacers
Contracts of Kings' sharpshooter and Indiana's Artest would make for easy trade.


Peja Stojakovic is one of the league's best shooters with a .398 mark from 3-point range in six NBA seasons. -- Garrett Ellwood / Getty Images

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By Mark Montieth
mark.montieth@indystar.com
August 7, 2004


The tremors from Sacramento Kings forward Peja Stojakovic's trade demand have rolled straight to Indiana, where he's already the focus of rampant speculation in a deal involving Ron Artest.

Stojakovic, the NBA's second-leading scorer last season with a 24.2 average, revealed Thursday he told the Kings on July 23 he wanted to be traded.

The Pacers qualify as a logical destination, given president Larry Bird's public admiration for Stojakovic and the fact his contract closely matches that of Artest.

Stojakovic's agent, David Bauman, told the Sacramento Bee that Bird had inquired about an Artest-Stojakovic deal in June. Friday, Bauman confirmed the Pacers' interest and Stojakovic's desire to leave the Kings.

"Larry Bird is a very tenacious general manager and he's going to do everything he can to make something happen," Bauman said in a telephone interview from Serbia and Montenegro, where Stojakovic has been making promotional appearances for the Serbian national team.

"I dealt with him in the draft. He's calling and pushing and coming up with ideas all the time."

Bauman said Stojakovic put his Sacramento home up for sale Friday and plans to reiterate his demand in a telephone conversation with Kings co-owner Joe Maloof tonight.

"They're going to realize Peja is deadset on this," Bauman said. "It's probably better to make the best trade you can make now.

"We're putting a ton of pressure on the Kings and the Kings' owners."

Bird and Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh were out of the office and unavailable for comment Friday. Artest and Kings general manager Geoff Petrie did not return calls.

Artest's agent, Mark Bartelstein, would not confirm trade discussions.

"I don't think there's anything imminent or anything like that," Bartelstein said.

A straight-up deal involving the two players would qualify under NBA salary cap rules because their salaries match closely enough, or the Pacers could include a minimum salary player. Stojakovic will be paid $6.875 million next season, while Artest will receive $6.2 million.

Artest played in the All-Star game and was named Defensive Player of the Year last season. He averaged 18.3 points during the regular season, but his production fell off sharply as the playoffs progressed. He averaged 14.5 points in the conference finals loss to Detroit, shooting .298 from the field and .194 from 3-point range.

Stojakovic played in the All-Star game for the third consecutive season and had a career-high regular-season scoring average, but also struggled in the postseason. He averaged 17.5 points in 12 playoff games, shooting .384 from the field and .315 from 3-point range. He hit 3-of-12 shots in the Kings' Game 7 loss to Minnesota and was criticized by the Sacramento media for becoming passive.

"I wasn't able to find my game the whole playoffs," he said.

Stojakovic's regular-season production fell off after Kings forward Chris Webber returned from a knee injury for the final 23 games. The lack of on-court chemistry between the two was exacerbated after Webber criticized the effort of some teammates after the Game 7 loss to Minnesota.

Stojakovic also is said to be upset by the loss of Kings center Vlade Divac, his closest friend on the team. Divac had been the Kings' most powerful locker room presence, a role Webber will likely inherit.

"Now that Vlade is gone, this team is going to take my tone," Webber said in an interview published in the Sacramento Bee on Sunday.

Asked what changes he'd like to see Kings management make in the offseason, Webber asked for a player fitting Artest's description.

"I'd just like to see an aggressive defender at the three (small forward) spot," he said.

Bird, meanwhile, has stated the Pacers need more scoring and improved outside shooting to take pressure off Jermaine O'Neal around the basket. Bird has called Stojakovic "the best shooter in the NBA by far."

Stojakovic, 27, has hit .398 from 3-point range and .885 from the foul line in his six NBA seasons.

Stojakovic, whose girlfriend is due to give birth to their first child Aug. 15, has not stated a preference to play for a specific team, but Bauman said he would be happy with a trade to the Pacers.

"He's looking for a team that's successful and has a chance to win," Bauman said. "We did look at Indiana and Indiana does fit his parameters."

sweabs
08-07-2004, 10:18 AM
I was just about to post this article.

My thoughts = :cry:

PacerCrazy
08-07-2004, 10:19 AM
Orginially I was against this but the more I think about it the more I think it could work out really well for the Pacers...

Hicks
08-07-2004, 10:44 AM
Where's Peck to remind everyone of his theory that Mark is the mouth-piece of the Pacers when I need him? ;)

obnoxiousmodesty
08-07-2004, 11:01 AM
Well if the Star is speculating on it, then the chance of this happening must be relatively high.

Willbo
08-07-2004, 11:26 AM
We prayed for an interesting off-season, and for our sins we got one

bulletproof
08-07-2004, 11:54 AM
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it mildly amusing that Peja has already put his Sacramento home up for sale. I don't know why, but that made me chuckle. I guess it's because if that's not a fück you to the Kings, I don't know what is. He seems resolute in his decision to leave. Let's hope he doesn't develop a strange attachment to one of our aging players...like Reggie. :laugh: He'll demand a trade after one season.

tora tora
08-07-2004, 12:08 PM
Please do not deal Artest :pray:

Roaming Gnome
08-07-2004, 12:22 PM
Eventhough I don't like the thought of trading Ronnie at all, at least in this deal there is value comming back! It seems like Pacer Brass is bound and determined to make a change concerning Ron and in my mind this is one of the better deals that I have heard for Ron, that is possible.

So, if they make this deal... We will really get to see how flexible Rick Carlisle can be.

ROCislandWarrior
08-07-2004, 12:26 PM
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it mildly amusing that Peja has already put his Sacramento home up for sale. I don't know why, but that made me chuckle. I guess it's because if that's not a fück you to the Kings, I don't know what is. He seems resolute in his decision to leave. Let's hope he doesn't develop a strange attachment to one of our aging players...like Reggie. :laugh: He'll demand a trade after one season.



Your not the only one BP,,, I guess they are not even going to give the Maloof's a chance to win him back.



Wait, did I just agree with bulletproof?;)

ROCislandWarrior
08-07-2004, 12:28 PM
But in all seriousness... is Bird is trying to build a team like the Pacers of 2000? I've never seen much of Larry's Celtics...but let me guess...alot of outside shooting with one dominant post player?

Hicks
08-07-2004, 12:31 PM
But in all seriousness... is Bird is trying to build a team like the Pacers of 2000? I've never seen much of Larry's Celtics...but let me guess...alot of outside shooting with one dominant post player?

Kind of.

MSA2CF
08-07-2004, 12:38 PM
Kevin McHale & Robert Parish & Cedric Maxwell & Walton, not to mention Bird were all inside forces if you'd like to call them that.

Anthem
08-07-2004, 12:42 PM
Man, what is it with Larry trying to bring a championship to Sacramento?

They now have 2 of the 3 best players from Thomas' team, and all we'd get in return is Pollard and Peja?

This is disgusting.

Lord Helmet
08-07-2004, 12:45 PM
Please do not deal Artest.Read my sig

Cactus Jax
08-07-2004, 12:48 PM
Go get Peja! I love Artest to death and I have a jersey of him lying around here, but Peja is THE best shooter in the game.

People say, what about on defense, and from what I've seen he's not the worst defender in the world, not even close, although I wouldn't say he's even average.

Here's a proposal I came up with on Real GM that worked perfectly.

Pacers trade: Artest, Pollard, Fred Jones
Kings trade: Peja, and Doug Christie

I know what people will say. Don't trade Freddie, he'll gain more playing time if Ronnie is traded and I say that's crap. Ron played SF last year, and Freddie is 6'2'' if I remember correctly.

Doug Christie (Yes he has a ***** for a wife) can play 3 positions (None with his wife :mad:;)) PG, SG, and SF plus he'd be a fairly good replacement for Ron on defense. Pollard gets another chance in Sacto, and the Peja and Ronnie parts are obvious for both teams.

RSmits
08-07-2004, 12:48 PM
Somebody please explain to me how we are a better team with Peja instead of Ron. Where is our post-up game outside of JO? Nobody. There would be way to much offensive front court pressure on JO to score-- and he would constantly be double-teamed. Also, where would our perimeter defense come from?

I just don't get it.

Lord Helmet
08-07-2004, 12:53 PM
Go get Peja! I love Artest to death and I have a jersey of him lying around here, but Peja is THE best shooter in the game.

People say, what about on defense, and from what I've seen he's not the worst defender in the world, not even close, although I wouldn't say he's even average.

Here's a proposal I came up with on Real GM that worked perfectly.

Pacers trade: Artest, Pollard, Fred Jones
Kings trade: Peja, and Doug Christie

I know what people will say. Don't trade Freddie, he'll gain more playing time if Ronnie is traded and I say that's crap. Ron played SF last year, and Freddie is 6'2'' if I remember correctly.

Doug Christie (Yes he has a ***** for a wife) can play 3 positions (None with his wife :mad:;)) PG, SG, and SF plus he'd be a fairly good replacement for Ron on defense. Pollard gets another chance in Sacto, and the Peja and Ronnie parts are obvious for both teams.

I actually like that trade.But I still don't want to trade Ronnie.

Cactus Jax
08-07-2004, 12:58 PM
Somebody please explain to me how we are a better team with Peja instead of Ron. Where is our post-up game outside of JO? Nobody. There would be way to much offensive front court pressure on JO to score-- and he would constantly be double-teamed. Also, where would our perimeter defense come from?

I just don't get it.

Give me the last championship team that had multiple GOOD, consistent post-up options.

Pistons (03-04) 0
Spurs (02-03) 1
Lakers (99-02) 1
Spurs (98-99) 1
Bulls (95-98) 0
Rockets (93-95) 1
Bulls (90-93) 0

That's since 1990, and who's in that list: Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem.

The Pacers had too many players who posted up and that clogged up the lane. Part of that was resolved when Al was traded, but I still think having the 2 best players on a team be post up players is no good.

Yeah JO will be double-teamed, just like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and that's why there's Peja, Reggie, S Jax, and Jamaal (When he's hot) to drain open three pointers.

I will give you perimiter defense though, but in my proposal Christie would help a little bit in that area.

Cactus Jax
08-07-2004, 01:02 PM
Go get Peja! I love Artest to death and I have a jersey of him lying around here, but Peja is THE best shooter in the game.


The only thing that comes to mind is that defense wins championships.



Defensive TEAMS win championships, defensive individuals don't automatically get that championship, and I feel that the team's defense while not quite as good as last years, which was near record breaking, it would still be well above average.

The pressure would be on Jackson, and Reggie more than Peja, as the SF's in the league aren't all that good.

Cactus Jax
08-07-2004, 01:07 PM
Somebody please explain to me how we are a better team with Peja instead of Ron. Where is our post-up game outside of JO? Nobody. There would be way to much offensive front court pressure on JO to score-- and he would constantly be double-teamed. Also, where would our perimeter defense come from?

I just don't get it.

Give me the last championship team that had multiple GOOD, consistent post-up options.

Pistons (03-04) 0
Spurs (02-03) 1
Lakers (99-02) 1
Spurs (98-99) 1
Bulls (95-98) 0
Rockets (93-95) 1
Bulls (90-93) 0

That's since 1990, and who's in that list: Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem.

The Pacers had too many players who posted up and that clogged up the lane. Part of that was resolved when Al was traded, but I still think having the 2 best players on a team be post up players is no good.

Yeah JO will be double-teamed, just like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and that's why there's Peja, Reggie, S Jax, and Jamaal (When he's hot) to drain open three pointers.

I will give you perimiter defense though, but in my proposal Christie would help a little bit in that area.


If you take Chicago out of your example its a completely different picture, especially since Jordan and Pippen in their heyday could play anywhere on the floor, including posting up.


Yes there are players there that DO post up, like you said Jordan and Pippen, but they didn't thrive off that. They did post up for variety and to always put pressure on the defense, but their team wasn't directed around posting up.

The Pistons won the title this year, at least from the offensive end (Their defense was 99% of the reason why they won the title), off of Hamilton, and Billups being able to score tons, while everyone on the court could score when needed, but Sheed is hardly a consistent post-up player.

The only other player that's worthy of argument in this time period is David Robinson, but by the time he won his titles, he was mostly a defensive specialist.

beast23
08-07-2004, 01:13 PM
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it mildly amusing that Peja has already put his Sacramento home up for sale. I don't know why, but that made me chuckle. I guess it's because if that's not a fück you to the Kings, I don't know what is. He seems resolute in his decision to leave. Let's hope he doesn't develop a strange attachment to one of our aging players...like Reggie. :laugh: He'll demand a trade after one season.


No kidding!

During the season, we talk about "statement games". But that just topped any meaning of the word "statement" that I've ever encountered.

As you know, I would hate to see Artest traded.

But quite honestly, if her were traded for another "3", Peja is about the best and most equitable deal for Artest that I can think of.

It certainly changes the face of the team. Perhaps not worse, just different. More emphasis on outscoring the opponent as oppsed to preventing them from scroing as much as us.

One thing that getting Peja might do is to revive Reggie's offensive game. You put one bomber on one side of the court, with Reggie on the other and Reggie suddenly will get such wide-open shots that even in "defer mode" he will not refuse to take them.

Also, we will face no more zone defenses. And probably far fewer double teams on Jermaine.

I think Jermaine may fall from the ranks of the 20 and 10 performers. We will get more points from SF and SG, and fewer from Jermaine. Maybe 18 and 10.

If you've been right about Bird and Walsh wanting Artest gone, then this is the perfect trade. A better one may never present itsself, and one just as equitable probably wouldn't present itself until will not present itself NEXT summer.

If we are going to do, then let's get the Kings on board. Then I will change my handle to the "Anti-beast23". [Apologies to other Artest fans, but I am and always will be a Pacer fan first and a player's fan second.]

Lord Helmet
08-07-2004, 01:25 PM
Can Peja play any D?I'm just asking I'm not trying to clown Peja.

indytoad
08-07-2004, 01:29 PM
Like someone said in another thread, we seem to be trading one weakness for another. If this trade goes through we are puny up front, which is not a good thing considering how much Detroit and Miami have bulked up. If we do this, there is no way we'll do any better than third in the east. If we hadn't already traded Al this might be a good trade, but now...

IndyToad
It's been a while

Lord Helmet
08-07-2004, 01:31 PM
Like someone said in another thread, we seem to be trading one weakness for another. If this trade goes through we are puny up front, which is not a good thing considering how much Detroit and Miami have bulked up. If we do this, there is no way we'll do any better than third in the east. If we hadn't already traded Al this might be a good trade, but now...

IndyToad
It's been a while
I agree.

Kegboy
08-07-2004, 01:36 PM
Eventhough I don't like the thought of trading Ronnie at all, at least in this deal there is value comming back! It seems like Pacer Brass is bound and determined to make a change concerning Ron and in my mind this is one of the better deals that I have heard for Ron, that is possible.

So, if they make this deal... We will really get to see how flexible Rick Carlisle can be.

Exactly. But as I said, Rick's head might explode, and then Mike can coach. :p

If management is adament on trading Ron, then hell yes you do this deal. It's by far the best deal we could possibly get for him.

That said, not knowing the off-the-court situation, I still feel it hurts us on-the-court. We've got 3 great defensive coaches, so maybe they can salvage our D with more team principles. But it's a gamble.

As for adding Fred to the deal, I don't see Sacramento wanting to lose Christie. But then, maybe they'd feel they wouldn't need him with the addition of Artest. And I think Fred would fit in very well with the Kings, and would certainly negate them losing Gerald Wallace. But unless they went out and got somebody else, they'd have to start Fred, which is asking a lot.

Roaming Gnome
08-07-2004, 01:56 PM
This is based on how I feel the rest of the league views Ron Artest.

One thing...Sacramento is a community much like our own and Ron Artest is viewed throughout the league as a headcase. On court aside, Ron may not get as good a look in Sacramento because he is not viewed as a "good guy". Yeah, I know Webber, but at that time Sac was searching for any kind of identity and more willing to take the risk on Webber then. Sac is not really in that need to take a risk like that now. In a conservative market like Sacramento, Ron could be seen as a PR nightmare and not worth the risk.

I won't be suprised at all to see Sacramento take a lesser player then Ron in trade just because of the perception of Ron Artest and how he would be viewed in Sacramento.

Even in our own arena, there are fans that feel no matter how valuable Ron is, he is someone they just can't relate with and should be moved. I can see a good bit of the Sacramento fans looking at Ronnie the same way.

Just my :twocents:.

bulletproof
08-07-2004, 01:59 PM
Like someone said in another thread, we seem to be trading one weakness for another. If this trade goes through we are puny up front, which is not a good thing considering how much Detroit and Miami have bulked up. If we do this, there is no way we'll do any better than third in the east. If we hadn't already traded Al this might be a good trade, but now...

IndyToad
It's been a while
I agree.


If we had kept Al, we still would have a logjam at SF. Al wouldn't start over Peja, so you're right back to where you were with Al. Wanting to start. And he would not have been happy coming off the bench this season.

Anthem
08-07-2004, 02:24 PM
Here's an honest question.

Has anyone ever been scared of Peja in a game? Honest question.

Now, we only play the Kings twice a year, but there's a lot of players I worry about more than I worry about Peja. Ron's always owned him.

bulletproof
08-07-2004, 02:29 PM
I think it's safe to say that this is out of your hands, Anthem. ;)

zxc
08-07-2004, 02:37 PM
Really can't see how trading our second and third best players after a 61 win season and trip to the conference finals is a wise decision. Gonna be such a different team next year if we traded Ron for Peja. Anyway I doubt King's would do it straight up, and I can't see us including anything else of value. If we do then its even worse =\

Pig Nash
08-07-2004, 02:40 PM
I actually think this will make us better. The defense is a philosophy and Rick's not gonna turn this into a fun and gun team. It also clears the middle. HOWEVER (i miss tony and wilbon) I don't think the trade will happen. Every trade i want, we don't get.

look at my sig \/

canyoufeelit
08-07-2004, 02:43 PM
one of my Piston fan friends was absolutely terrified of the possibility of Sacramento coming out of the West because of this game where they had no answer for him:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240211008

he is... uh, inconsistent in the playoffs, but I remember him having a few good games. Maybe Larry can mentor him and take Peja to the next level?

kerosene
08-07-2004, 02:45 PM
We are talking about the guy who was an MVP candidate the first half of last season right? The guy who carried his team when their "best" player was injured? That guy right?

I like Ron, he's my favorite Pacer. I would echo some of the other posts in saying that if the Corporation is intent on trading Ron then Peja would be good value. I'm not saying I'd be completely happy with it, but if the whispers are true about how things are behind the scenes, then this is probably as good as anything that will come along.

Kegboy
08-07-2004, 04:31 PM
i miss tony and wilbon

Me too. I refuse to watch those yahoos they got now.

I assume they'll be back next week. :fingerscrossed:

rm1369
08-07-2004, 05:10 PM
I'm not sure if I like the trade or not. I do know that if we traded Ron for Peja, Reggie MUST come of the bench.

A line up of Tinsley, Miller, and Peja = :puke:

Tinsley, Jackson, Peja, JO, Foster is interesting. I think that would be by far the most balanced lineup we have had in years. I just can't decide if more balanced = better

Kegboy
08-07-2004, 05:18 PM
I'm not sure if I like the trade or not. I do know that if we traded Ron for Peja, Reggie MUST come of the bench.

A line up of Tinsley, Miller, and Peja = :puke:

Tinsley, Jackson, Peja, JO, Foster is interesting. I think that would be by far the most balanced lineup we have had in years. I just can't decide if more balanced = better



You're right. If we make this trade, Reggie's definitely coming off the bench.

I'd feel better if I knew exactly how good of a defender Sax is. Yes, he has a lot of steals, but so does Tinsley. :rolleyes:

beast23
08-07-2004, 05:35 PM
Actually, if we do trade Ron for Peja, I think it becomes significantly important that we somehow swing a deal to bring Dampier and Robinson to the Pacers for either Bender and Croshere/Pollard.

It would suddenly become very important that we acquire some beef up front. Dampier and Robinson provide that.

You give me the following, and even though it constitutes a lot of change since last season, I could go for it:

Dampier... Foster........ Harrison
O'Neal...... Robinson
Peja......... [Jackson]... JJones
Reggie..... Jackson...... FJones
Tinsley..... Johnson..... Gill

That's only 13 players, but it's a much better balanced roster than what we've had for 2-3 seasons.

Sollozzo
08-07-2004, 05:44 PM
Stephen Jackson better be the starter at the 2 guard, no matter what happens.

rm1369
08-07-2004, 05:51 PM
I honestly don't believe Damp makes us better against Detroit. Foster / JO matches up better defensively with detroit than Damp / JO. I do not want JO on Rasheed, to much of a foul trouble risk and it will limit his ability to help on D. Damp is too slow to defend Rasheed.

I don't see it helping offensively much either. Spacing is more important against Detroit than possibly any team and adding Damp will not help space the floor. Damp is more of a threat in the post than Jeff, but not much. I suppose it may help our rebounding.

Damp would help a little against miami, but I'd rather have someone that can shoot so shaq must work on both ends. I think that is more effective than hopeing to bang with him.

beast23
08-07-2004, 05:53 PM
Stephen Jackson better be the starter at the 2 guard, no matter what happens. I think you need to face one fact. Fans don't always get what they want.

If you are holding out for Jackson starting, I think you are going to be extremely disappointed. Or don't you read the quotes of what Rick and Larry have to say?

BigDawg44
08-07-2004, 06:11 PM
I think we should have faith in LB and Rick Carlisle. They obviously know what they are doing. Plus we should have more faith in Carlisles system.

Sollozzo
08-07-2004, 07:43 PM
Beast, back in June, Carlisle said Reggie would be the probable starter unless there was a significant roster change. Well, I think getting Stephen Jackson is a significant change.

Stephen Jackson is just a flatout better player than Reggie Miller, that's obvious. Reggie is slow, cant get open for his shot like he used to, and gets burned on defense.

I think fans need to face the fact that Reggie Miller is finished. We don't need him at all anymore, we have younger players that are the future of this franchise. Letting Reggie continue to start is just shooting the team in the foot, IMO.

Kegboy
08-07-2004, 07:43 PM
I think we should have faith in LB and Rick Carlisle. They obviously know what they are doing. Plus we should have more faith in Carlisles system.

Why should we have faith in Larry Bird? I can understand faith in Carlisle, and in Donnie, but what has Larry done to prove to you he's a good GM?

Hicks
08-07-2004, 07:47 PM
Have faith in Donnie Walsh. He's the one who has to finish any deals, even if they were Bird's ideas.

Kegboy
08-07-2004, 07:56 PM
Have faith in Donnie Walsh. He's the one who has to finish any deals, even if they were Bird's ideas.

Yeah, that's what I keep telling myself:

Believe in The Donnie. The Donnie is wise and all powerful. All kneel before the power and wisdom of The Donnie.

:bowdown:

(See, with Peck gone, I can practice my religion without fear of reprisal. :p)

MSA2CF
08-07-2004, 09:08 PM
Stephen Jackson is just a flatout better player than Reggie Miller, that's obvious. Reggie is slow, cant get open for his shot like he used to, and gets burned on defense.

I think fans need to face the fact that Reggie Miller is finished. We don't need him at all anymore, we have younger players that are the future of this franchise. Letting Reggie continue to start is just shooting the team in the foot, IMO.

:lol2:

Hicks
08-07-2004, 09:09 PM
I agree with PacerFanAdam.

obnoxiousmodesty
08-07-2004, 09:33 PM
I would echo some of the other posts in saying that if the Corporation is intent on trading Ron then Peja would be good value. I'm not saying I'd be completely happy with it, but if the whispers are true about how things are behind the scenes, then this is probably as good as anything that will come along.
I agree 100%.

MSA2CF
08-07-2004, 09:43 PM
if the Corporation is intent on trading Ron then Peja would be good value. I'm not saying I'd be completely happy with it, but if the whispers are true about how things are behind the scenes, then this is probably as good as anything that will come along.

I would agree with that.

ChicagoJ
08-07-2004, 09:55 PM
Just think, 12 months ago there was no way in Hell that the Pacers could trade Ron for Peja straight up. This is what we mean when we say Ron's value has never/ will never be higher.

Sollozzo
08-07-2004, 09:55 PM
MSA2CF, you seem to think what I said about Reggie is hysterical and stupid.

Tell me why you dont think Reggie is finished.

indygeezer
08-07-2004, 10:02 PM
OK, again I leave for a couple days R&R and the &%#()@Q hits the fan. :o I'm taking a laptop with me from now on just to keep up!

I like the deal, do it. Straight up for PJ? Will he promise to shave ?

I'm suprised by the reaction, much more positive than I expected.;)

The Dampier thing is still on the table??? With this I would think we'd be satisfied, how much change do we (some of you) need????:confused:

ChicagoJ
08-07-2004, 10:05 PM
These may all re-appear someday, but they are disappearing tonight.

Twelve months ago, there was no way in Hell that we could trade Ron for Peja, straight up.

This is what I meant when I said Ron's trade value has never been/ will never be higher.

MSA2CF
08-07-2004, 10:22 PM
I don't think Reggie Miller is finished because he still contributes. When his team needs him, most of the time, he still delivers. Players and coaches have said he's still valuable. I agree with them. Although his role in scoring may have been diminished, he still fills that role adequately. As for him still starting, I feel it wrong for him to come off the bench. For reasons others have explained on these message boards...

Look, Adam, I didn't mean to offend you if I did, but I just don't agree with much at all in that post you wrote. I may not have a single "reason," but I do have opinions on how things should be. We all do. I'm just too tired to post all my thoughts on the issue, or even some of them. This topic has been discussed already & I just don't have the energy to tell you why I don't think Reggie is finished. By the by, I didn't think your post was stupid; it's just that I disagreed with it and that emoticon was the best I could come up with to express my feelings because I was/am too tired to explain why I disagree.

Go Pacers!

Sollozzo
08-07-2004, 10:26 PM
MSA2CF, you didn't offend me at all, each of us has the right to our own opinion.

I just think that Stephen Jackson is at this point, a more complete player than Reggie Miller and should start.

Reggie is at the end of the career. His tank is getting closer and closer to "E".

Kegboy
08-07-2004, 10:26 PM
MSA2CF, you seem to think what I said about Reggie is hysterical and stupid.

Tell me why you dont think Reggie is finished.

Don't know about MSA, but I'd start with the 21 point game he had against Detroit in game 2, blocked shot or no blocked shot. That's the second most any Pacer had in the ECF, behind JO's 24 in Game 4.

Sollozzo
08-07-2004, 10:30 PM
Kegboy, we all know Reggie can have big games here and there, I wasnt disputing that. The problem is, he doesnt contribute big on a consistant basis. Even with that 21 point game, he still just averaged 9.3 points against the Pistons in the ECF's.

MSA2CF
08-07-2004, 10:39 PM
Kegboy, we all know Reggie can have big games here and there, I wasnt disputing that. The problem is, he doesnt contribute big on a consistant basis. Even with that 21 point game, he still just averaged 9.3 points against the Pistons in the ECF's.



He's not going to contribute "big" consistently anymore. That's not his role anymore.

Sollozzo
08-07-2004, 10:59 PM
What exactly is his role?

We could use his shooting anytime, but he isnt fast enough to get open enough for his shots.

He is not a good defensive player.

Stephen Jackson is just flatout better at this point.

TheSauceMaster
08-07-2004, 11:12 PM
Well I can't say I like it but I am not mamagement and by all means I don't want Artest traded , but then again I don't have to deal with Ron on a Personal Level for 82 + games. If management is indeed set on getting rid of Ron I think this is the Best Deal we could Get for Ron , I won't be happy myself and I am sure this may upset alot of fans if it indeed does happen.


Disclaimer: THis has nothing to to with basketball or this thread , just trying to ease the tension ;)

Atleast if Peja comes hopefully his Wife will follow , she is a really hottie , I got a picture or two of her and she is defintely a eye pleaser :o

indygeezer
08-07-2004, 11:12 PM
It does concern me. If JO sits for a length of time who reoplaces him? Not that Ronnie would, but he takes some of the rebounding load up front if JO goes down Can Peja do that? No, I don't think so. It's going to take a major contribtion from Cro and Bender to make up for what we lack.


Unless Peja's presence would cause Pollard to have flash-backs and suddelnly rememeber how to play the 5.:p