PDA

View Full Version : Hawks exploring trades for Josh Smith (could be our PF)



The Future
07-05-2010, 09:46 PM
We are in need of a PF and a PG.

What do you guys think of Josh Smith?

He's athletic, plays great defense, and can finish around the rim. He would be a perfect fit with Hibbert.


The Hawks have recently been exploring the possibility of trading power forward Josh Smith as part of their summertime makeover, according to sources around the league.
Source:http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/05/shaq-weighing-offer-from-hawks-to-join-johnson/

MillerTime
07-05-2010, 09:50 PM
Not to fond of these small PF. I think Josh is a great player, but I just dont like him as a PF, I'd much rather keep him at SF. He kind of reminds me of Lewis playing PF in Orlando. I'd much rather have a 'real' PF like Horford, Bosh, Jefferson, Gasol, etc.

I like having a team with size. Though Smith is 6'9"ish, he still pretty undersized for a PF, he doesnt have the mass

BRushWithDeath
07-05-2010, 09:52 PM
Even if we really wanted him, we don't have anything that could get him.

Plus he'd shoot 600+ threes next season for us. Which isn't a good thing.

sportfireman
07-05-2010, 09:55 PM
Undersized but extremely athletic, defensive. Can run the floor and finish...... One concern he takes bad shots sometimes (3's)....With our staff preaching 3's it might not work out well. But I'd take him in a heartbeat.

imawhat
07-05-2010, 10:04 PM
His numbers were really solid last year. 15.7 pts on 50.7% shooting (only took 7 threes, missing all), 8.7 rbs, 4.2 asst, 1.6 stl, 2.1 blk, 2.47 to.

He's almost the perfect player to pair with Roy. I thought he should've won defensive player of the year in '08-'09.

If the trade was based solely on talent I'd be glad to trade Troy Murphy for him. But he'd definitely be a risk with his attitude and temper.

odeez
07-05-2010, 10:05 PM
Love Josh Smith, we are a playoff team with him!

Young
07-05-2010, 10:07 PM
Plus he'd shoot 600+ threes next season for us. Which isn't a good thing.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/josh_smith/career_stats.html

I remember before last season he said he wasn't going to focus on shooting 3 points last season. That stuck out to me because you hardly ever hear a player say that.

A part of me would love to have him. He is a good player, seems to have matured, and contract is not awful. Actually short.

However I don't see how the Pacers have the pieces to get him. At least me, I wouldn't offer up much besides Murphy and Rush for him.

Also I worry that Jim would have him shooting a lot of 3s which would be dumb. Add that to the fact that I have doubts that Josh should be playing the 4. Look at back at the NBA Finals. You have to be able to play in the paint and to do that on a nightly basis you need size. It's like controling the line of scrimmage in football. I just don't think Josh can help the Pacers in that area.

Pacers2012
07-05-2010, 10:11 PM
Not to fond of these small PF. I think Josh is a great player, but I just dont like him as a PF, I'd much rather keep him at SF. He kind of reminds me of Lewis playing PF in Orlando. I'd much rather have a 'real' PF like Horford, Bosh, Jefferson, Gasol, etc.

I like having a team with size. Though Smith is 6'9"ish, he still pretty undersized for a PF, he doesnt have the mass

6'9 is not undersized with his vertical. that fact is that smith is SO athletic is why people dont see him as a PF. He averaged 15ppg, 8.7rpg and 4.2apg. Thats solid play from a PF.

And for those who think that Smith just jacks up 3s. take a look at his stats. Last year he took 7 threes yes 7 im not leaving off a 0. He went of 0-7 last year from 3. I think his coaches finally got him to play to his strengths. I think this would be a great addition to the Pacers given he also averaged 2bpg. He is big, athletic and runs very well and the pacers love to run. He would be an instant play maker at the defensive end.

The Future
07-05-2010, 10:12 PM
Josh Smith also can pass the ball which will be great for our system!

ThA HoyA
07-05-2010, 10:16 PM
How is he undersized if anything gasol and them are oversized haha jk.... Ask Murphy how all that height he has on smith helps him on the defensive end.... We would be getting one of the best defensive players in the game. He would improve our interior defense on his presence alone. Add in the fact that almost everytime he gets interviewed he talks about the importance of defense to win or get better...

BobbyMac
07-05-2010, 10:25 PM
We need to address the PG issue first, much the more important issue.

gopacers1179
07-05-2010, 10:26 PM
this guy was soooo close to playing for IU, I really wish he did. I really really wish he was a Pacer. He has an attitude I dont care much for, but he would immediately be my favorite Pacer.

Even if he does leave ATL, I see him replacing a big name from a big market. He's just way too talented and the Pacers have no one to offer outside of Granger(who they dont need).

McKeyFan
07-05-2010, 10:30 PM
We need to address the PG issue first, much the more important issue.

That was addressed earlier today, starting at about 3:10 pm.

cdash
07-05-2010, 10:32 PM
Not to fond of these small PF. I think Josh is a great player, but I just dont like him as a PF, I'd much rather keep him at SF. He kind of reminds me of Lewis playing PF in Orlando. I'd much rather have a 'real' PF like Horford, Bosh, Jefferson, Gasol, etc.

I like having a team with size. Though Smith is 6'9"ish, he still pretty undersized for a PF, he doesnt have the mass

In today's NBA, he's not really a small PF. I don't understand that you want to "keep him at SF"...he's played PF since he got to the NBA. Atlanta started Horford at C (Zaza before him), J-Smoove at PF, and Marvin Williams at SF. He almost never played SF.

On paper, Smith looks like a great addition to our team. Super athletic, good defender, and his active defense can hide of some Roy's slow-footedness. I worried that he might dog it after he got paid, but he was a borderline All-Star last year. He does seem to have a bit of an attitude problem, and in this system I'd worry that he would rekindle his ill-fated love for the three point shot.

I don't know what it would take to get him, my guess is actually not as much as people around here think. I think an expiring+2nd round pick+maybe McRoberts would be in the ballpark.

MillerTime
07-05-2010, 10:34 PM
6'9 is not undersized with his vertical. that fact is that smith is SO athletic is why people dont see him as a PF. He averaged 15ppg, 8.7rpg and 4.2apg. Thats solid play from a PF.

And for those who think that Smith just jacks up 3s. take a look at his stats. Last year he took 7 threes yes 7 im not leaving off a 0. He went of 0-7 last year from 3. I think his coaches finally got him to play to his strengths. I think this would be a great addition to the Pacers given he also averaged 2bpg. He is big, athletic and runs very well and the pacers love to run. He would be an instant play maker at the defensive end.

Hes undersized by his mass. He doesnt have the size

vnzla81
07-05-2010, 10:36 PM
I think that Atlanta is going to trade him for a Center to move Horford to his natural position and at the same time get enough cap space to resign him(Al)

I would take him for Murphy in a heartbeat

gopacers1179
07-05-2010, 10:36 PM
I don't know what it would take to get him, my guess is actually not as much as people around here think. I think an expiring+2nd round pick+maybe McRoberts would be in the ballpark. this is all you think it would take to land one of the premier PF's in the East?

cdash
07-05-2010, 10:39 PM
this is all you think it would take to land one of the premier PF's in the East?

Eh, probably not. But I don't think they are going to be able to get a great deal for him if they trade him. There's a reason he didn't go to the All-Star game last year, even though he was very deserving of the honor: He has a reputation as being hard to coach, and his sideline tirades at Mike Woodson were well documented. His attitude and contract drag his value down.

Kstat
07-05-2010, 10:40 PM
I think that Atlanta is going to trade him for a Center to move Horford to his natural position and at the same time get enough cap space to resign him(Al)

I would take him for Murphy in a heartbeat

They're likely going to sign Shaq to play center.

vnzla81
07-05-2010, 10:45 PM
They're likely going to sign Shaq to play center.

how you know? any link?


I don't see a guy like Shaq signing with a team like the Hawks, I am thinking that Shaq is going to SA reason why he nevers talks crap about Duncan.

jeffg-body
07-05-2010, 10:47 PM
I would love it if we could land Josh Smith somehow. It is crazy that we consider 6'9" as undersized, especially with the hops that this kid has. I don't know what Atlanta would want from us. If they want cap room we could offer a lot to them. If they want talent I doubt we could give them what they want if we exclude Danny and Roy.

Kstat
07-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Shaq is a perfect fit for Atlanta. He solves their center issues and allows Horford to move over to PF.

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm



Free-agent center Shaquille O'Neal is seriously considering a two-year deal with the Hawks that starts at the mid-level exception of $5.8 million, according to NBA sources close to both the team and the future Hall of Fame player.

CooperManning
07-05-2010, 10:48 PM
how you know? any link?


I don't see a guy like Shaq signing with a team like the Hawks, I am thinking that Shaq is going to SA reason why he nevers talks crap about Duncan.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/05/shaq-weighing-offer-from-hawks-to-join-johnson/


ORLANDO The re-signing of Joe Johnson might not be the only big splash the Atlanta Hawks make this summer.

Free-agent center Shaquille O'Neal is seriously considering a two-year deal with the Hawks that starts at the mid-level exception of $5.8 million, according to NBA sources close to both the team and the future Hall of Fame player.

O'Neal, whose past season in Cleveland with LeBron James ended in disappointment, has been working out the past two weeks in Orlando, where he makes his offseason home.

Johnson, over the weekend, agreed to sign with the Hawks for the six-year, $119 million maximum allowable contract with the Hawks. Free-agent signings can't begin until July 8. Johnson was told by management that the Hawks intended to make significant changes to their roster, including the possible addition of O'Neal.

"I think he wants to see how everything shakes out with all the free agents, but he's seriously considering Atlanta's offer,'' said the source who asked that his name not be used. "He wants to play two more years, and he wants it to be with a contender. He thinks he can help them become a serious one.''

The Hawks, who lost in the second round of the playoffs for the second consecutive year, have a glaring need for a bigger, stronger center with a low-post game. They have been using undersized Al Horford, who could slide smoothly to power forward to make room for O'Neal.

The Hawks have recently been exploring the possibility of trading power forward Josh Smith as part of their summertime makeover, according to sources around the league.

O'Neal, 38, played 53 games for the Cavs last season, averaging 12 points and 6.7 rebounds in 23.4 minutes. Although he isn't the force he once was, he could solidify Atlanta defensively.

The Cavaliers traded for him last summer, believing he could be their answer to rival Orlando and Dwight Howard, but they never reached that matchup after losing to Boston.

The Hawks are thinking along the same lines after being swept by the Magic in the second round this spring. They had no answer for Howard around the basket, something that O'Neal still could provide. They also could use O'Neal's star appeal to help create some much needed interest in the franchise.

Although the Hawks looked awful against the Magic, they had won 53 games during the regular season, their fifth consecutive season of improving their victory total. Much of the blame for the loss fell on the shoulders of Johnson and Smith, their two most talented players, and coach Mike Woodson, who was fired.

O'Neal made $20 million last season in Cleveland the final year of a long-term contract -- but he knows that his value has dropped dramatically, and he probably won't be offered anything more than the mid-level.

"He wants to make sure he finishes with a contender, and in a city he likes,'' said the source.

Pacers2012
07-05-2010, 10:48 PM
Hes undersized by his mass. He doesnt have the size

so that would make antawn jamison a SF too then. i mean he is 6'9 and weighs 5pounds less then josh. that also includes carlos boozer who is 6'9 an weighs a little more then josh. It doesn't always matter how much you weigh or your mass. It how you move in the paint and posistion yourself. only guys like shaq can move you out of the way by weighing less then them.

Kstat
07-05-2010, 10:49 PM
...and Antawn Jamison can't defend his position, either.

cdash
07-05-2010, 10:50 PM
...and Antawn Jamison can't defend his position, either.

Wait, are you saying Smith can't defend his position?

Kstat
07-05-2010, 10:52 PM
Are you saying he can? %90 of the defensive plays he makes are off the ball. He gets posted up at will.

CooperManning
07-05-2010, 10:55 PM
This makes some sense if the Hawks sign Shaq to a 2-year deal and want to extend Horford/Crawford. I'd have no problem doing something like Murphy/Rush/future 2nd for Smith/M. Evans, don't know if that'd be enough though.

Gives the Hawks an expiring, a prospect, and a 2nd. We get Smith and an expiring SG. Salaries are nearly identical.

Pacers2012
07-05-2010, 10:57 PM
Wait, are you saying Smith can't defend his position?

yep thats what they're saying. 6'9 just doesn't cut it at PF. even if you can jump out the gym. aparently the guy with who is taller and weighs more always wins.

smith was also runner up to howard this year for defensive player of the year.

Chuck Chillout
07-05-2010, 11:01 PM
Could we have Horford instead?:)

CooperManning
07-05-2010, 11:03 PM
Just realized Smith is only 24. I'd throw in a future first instead of second, if pressed.

OakMoses
07-05-2010, 11:04 PM
We would be a better team with Josh Smith. He would be a good fit next to Roy. He is a good player.

However, there's just something about him that's always rubbed me the wrong way. I've never been able to put my finger on it, but he just doesn't seem like a winning player. I don't know what that means either.

cdash
07-05-2010, 11:07 PM
Are you saying he can? %90 of the defensive plays he makes are off the ball. He gets posted up at will.

His man to man defense isn't glorious, but his help defense is great. He makes guys think twice before driving into the lane, because he is always there to block or alter the shot.

I'm a little baffled by some of your comments on defense. You think Josh Smith isn't a good defender, but you think Amare Stoudemire is.

gopacers1179
07-05-2010, 11:08 PM
We would be a better team with Josh Smith. He would be a good fit next to Roy. He is a good player.

However, there's just something about him that's always rubbed me the wrong way. I've never been able to put my finger on it, but he just doesn't seem like a winning player. I don't know what that means either. Roy, Smith, Psycho T would be a nasty front court for a decade. Ive never heard of this Smith rumor but Im kindof excited considering we're in the market of doing deals in the near future. Like a previous poster said, this guy has some baggage and we might be able to land him in a fair deal. Problem is, I could see alot of teams reaching for this guy. Alot prettier places than Indy tbh.

Pacers2012
07-05-2010, 11:09 PM
We would be a better team with Josh Smith. He would be a good fit next to Roy. He is a good player.

However, there's just something about him that's always rubbed me the wrong way. I've never been able to put my finger on it, but he just doesn't seem like a winning player. I don't know what that means either.

Your not the only one. I think its just the way he carries himself. Kinda like how people think Rush doesn't care. thats just me though, I feel the same way. I would still take him though but, that would all depend on who they wanted from us.

BlueNGold
07-05-2010, 11:14 PM
We would be a better team with Josh Smith. He would be a good fit next to Roy. He is a good player.

However, there's just something about him that's always rubbed me the wrong way. I've never been able to put my finger on it, but he just doesn't seem like a winning player. I don't know what that means either.

I agree. Amare is not exactly the same type of player...just a little similar. I don't think either of them are the type of PF needed to build a championship team.

Horford is the type of PF you need...one that can smash you in the mouth. Smith is the type you want for the highlight reel. You win difficult games with size and force...or a talented wing player. Horford plays with the requisite force. JMHO.

BTW, this is also why Murphy is the opposite of what you want in a PF.

odeez
07-05-2010, 11:23 PM
Get him if you can, no doubt, who cares if he is undersized, we are a playoff team with him, again...

graphic-er
07-05-2010, 11:31 PM
So then it must be asked, if the Hawks want a center for Josh Smith, would you put Hibbert up for him?

gopacers1179
07-05-2010, 11:46 PM
Now Ive had some time to think about the possibility of Josh Smith being a Pacer, he's a worthless player for us. After a few more years in the league, hes gonna lose his athleticism and be a 6'9 undersized PF who doesnt have a jump shot. That mixed in with some of his emotional problems, I dont think he'd be worth the trouble and the salary he'd eventually demand.

Im so on the fence with him....one second sounds great then Im like I dunno.......

ThA HoyA
07-06-2010, 12:55 AM
He is 24 years old! These are the type of deals we need to make where a player isn't there yet but on the verge of really putting their entire game together. We can't expect teams to give away The perfect player. If Murphy can try and play defense I see no reason why a runner up for DPOY wouldn't be a good fit or is undersized.

Kstat
07-06-2010, 12:58 AM
Oh wow... 24 years old? And he's losing his athleticism? :laugh:

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:16 AM
Oh wow... 24 years old? And he's losing his athleticism? :laugh: you're off base and you're missing my point which could probably be made clearer if it wasnt in text. Smiths game relies alot on his athleticism and being 6'9 and all without a solid faceup 15 footer his game might suffer once he's in his early 30's. He did come straight from college so once minutes begin to limit his ability he might not have much to rely on. And since hes very talented right now him and his agent will demand an expensive long term contract which might put us in difficult spot in 5 years with him.

Although being 24, he has avg over 30-35 mins a game the last 5 of his 6 seasons in the league. He was close to 30 his rookie year. Now check this, lets say we got him for instance. He looks great and we give him 5-7 year deal worth alot of money and when years 4 or 5 come rolling around, his athleticism might be suffering and like I said earlier, hes only 6'9. Hes cant shoot the 3 at all(made ZERO last year) and doesnt shoot well from the line. Hes not an above average rebounder either. Just an elite off and on the ball defender. I dont see him as worth like I previously believed once I first heard of the possibility.

Give Me A Break Larry!!!!
07-06-2010, 01:16 AM
is josh smith left handed?????????

tadscout
07-06-2010, 01:17 AM
I think Murphy/Rush for Smith would be a good and fair deal for each...

Atlanta would turn into one of the deepest teams in the league with Murph and Rush being key guys off their bench. (Murph's exp deal would help them resign Horford, and Rush would lessen the blow if the also couldn't resign Crawford.)

Our athleticism and defense would greatly improve. I'd just hope Hibbert and Danny could reign in Smith's temper, and vis versa Smith's passion for D would rub off on the Pacers.

With Bird's comments about our draft picks, saying we are now looking to get long athletic players, Smith sounds like someone Bird would like... as well would fit the high impact criteria to be willing to trade away future cap space for him.

rel
07-06-2010, 01:18 AM
who needs Josh Smith when you have Magnum Rolle!? :eyebrow:

Kstat
07-06-2010, 01:22 AM
you're off base and you're missing my point which could probably be made clearer if it wasnt in text. Smiths game relies alot on his athleticism and being 6'9 and all without a solid faceup 15 footer his game might suffer once he's in his early 30's.

...so you're saying somewhere 6-7 years down the road, Josh Smith might suffer a massive decline?

And this is a reason not to acquire him now?


He did come straight from college so once minutes begin to limit his ability he might not have much to rely on.

Exactly how did not going to college hinder Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant in their 30's?

pacergod2
07-06-2010, 01:23 AM
Even if we really wanted him, we don't have anything that could get him.

Plus he'd shoot 600+ threes next season for us. Which isn't a good thing.

We do have something to give him. The ability to resign Al Horford next year. Troy Murphy's contract would look really nice next to Joe Johnson's new max contract for a year. It ensures they have the flexibility to resign him to near max money. He is a guy you build around. No question. Josh Smith is an excellent player, but he relies so much on athleticism that as he ages, his game won't translate as well. He is owed a large sum of money, 3 yrs, 28.2M. He probably is maxing out his value as a tradable contract at this point. I bet they would want Murphy for Josh Smith, possibly with a throw in young player. Magnum Rolle (with lip service from our coach recently) or Josh McRoberts possibly, though I hope we keep both.

Josh Smith is a phenomenal athlete. He can score in bunches at times, but is inconsistent as a player. One thing he will always give you is the ability to block shots and rebound and generally give your team a chance to win the game through his efforts. I am not saying he is necessarily a clutch player of sorts, but the opposite... the rugged guy that does a lot of work. He is an excellent fit next to Hibbert IMO. Josh Smith roaming the weak side for offensive rebounds would be a delightful problem to have. I think that is a very good match roster-wise. We would also go from a terrible defensive PF to an excellent one. I would love that move. I would endorse a trade for Josh Smith.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:32 AM
...so you're saying somewhere 6-7 years down the road, Josh Smith might suffer a massive decline?

And this is a reason not to acquire him now?



Exactly how did not going to college hinder Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant in their 30's?Yes, hes playing out whats left of a 3 year deal comes to an end, he'll want a big deal to close his career. He'll be 27/28 by then unless hes extended immediately. If he's well structured and he plays here for his 20's, then yes its an upgrade. But if we're not smart with his contract, which has been an issue this decade, we could end up obligated him for too long. Just sayin


And comparing him to two hall of famers is just ridiculous and top 5 players at their position in NBA history. Cmon dude you can do better than that.

Kstat
07-06-2010, 01:33 AM
you're the one that used not going to highschool as a basis for him never getting any better.

And yes, if you can trade for Josh Smith, you do it and don't worry about something as ridiculous as what he'll ask for 3 years down the road under a totally new CBA, or how he'll perform 6-7 years down the road when he hits his 30's.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:43 AM
you're the one that used not going to highschool as a basis for him never getting any better.

And yes, if you can trade for Josh Smith, you do it and don't worry about something as ridiculous as what he'll ask for 3 years down the road under a totally new CBA, or how he'll perform 6-7 years down the road when he hits his 30's. I guess my draft thread made a few nuts. I never mentioned ANYTHING about not going to high school making him better or worse EVER. Look yourself. Im worried about him losing his athleticism fast (like JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO) while being undersized plus not having range in his J. By the time he's 30, he wouldve played more minutes than most guys in the old school NBA played by 32-34. Calm yourself. Id like the dude being a Pacers alot. But there are some issues with him, I dont believe its best for the team to give up much to get him.

Kstat
07-06-2010, 01:46 AM
He's 24. Exactly how fast do you think he's going to lose his athleticism?

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:51 AM
He's 24. Exactly how fast do you think he's going to lose his athleticism? once hes in his high 20's low 30's playing 10-13 seasons of 82 games of basketball, 32-35 mins a night. Time isnt your friend after 10 NBA seasons, no matter if it begins in college or the pros. Smith was thrown into the fire quickly. Hes 24 and a 6 year pro. Its gonna take a toll in 4-6 years. Common sense. Hes not Kobe or Garnett in a 1000 different ways

Kstat
07-06-2010, 01:53 AM
ok... so 6-7 years down the road, when he hits his 30's, he might break down.

Really, I don't care if he's been in the NBA since he was 5. It's ridiculous to comment on a player's longevity in the near future when he's only 24 years old and has no major injury history.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:55 AM
ok... so 6-7 years down the road, when he hits his 30's, he might break down. right. Like I said, I think the dude is cool. But he could end up a Pacer for that long while being signed to a huge contract. When the back end hits I fear he wont be worth the money anymore. Outside of that, if we could keep him for up to 4 years for a fair deal, Im all for it believe me.

We do have alot of money to spend and if we land him it makes sense he's gonna get big time paid.

Kstat
07-06-2010, 01:58 AM
Josh Smith is still under contract for 3 more seasons. He isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and when he does there will be a much more owner-friendly cap in place.

ThA HoyA
07-06-2010, 01:59 AM
So we shouldn't trade for him because he will eventually lose his athleticism when he's 30?? Or even 28 or 29 that's still a solid 4-5 years of Josh smith. He fits perfect next to hibbert. Plus I think he could work on his jumpshot in 4-5 when his athleticism will be gone.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 02:02 AM
So we shouldn't trade for him because he will eventually lose his athleticism when he's 30?? Or even 28 or 29 that's still a solid 4-5 years of Josh smith. He fits perfect next to hibbert. Plus I think he could work on his jumpshot in 4-5 when his athleticism will be gone. Ive said this in earlier posts, what you say.

I wouldnt prefer to have him here for longer then 4 years though, thats all. His strength is scoring in the paint. Itd be cool if could develop a J, but he never hit a 3 in 09-10 and shot poor from the line. Ive said much about this subject alot in the thread. Got sidetracked by some dude

oz_pacer
07-06-2010, 03:46 AM
josh smith maybe undersized at pf but his hops far outweigh his lack of size he can block shots and grab rebounds with the best of them, athleticism and defense 2 things we really need

pwee31
07-06-2010, 09:49 AM
Yes Please!

Rupert Stilinski
07-06-2010, 10:16 AM
Ive said this in earlier posts, what you say.

I wouldnt prefer to have him here for longer then 4 years though, thats all. His strength is scoring in the paint. Itd be cool if could develop a J, but he never hit a 3 in 09-10 and shot poor from the line. Ive said much about this subject alot in the thread. Got sidetracked by some dude

I don't know, I read through this whole thread and it looked to me like you have pretty much just been spewing out a whole bunch of nonsense.

Not that you "got sidetracked by some dude."

Justin Tyme
07-06-2010, 10:52 AM
I don't see this happening. If I was Atlanta, I'm not giving up Smith for Murphy and Rush. Smith is worth more than that pu pu platter. Pacers would need to add more to the deal. Next years 1st would be a minimum.

pacergod2
07-06-2010, 11:02 AM
I don't see this happening. If I was Atlanta, I'm not giving up Smith for Murphy and Rush. Smith is worth more than that pu pu platter. Pacers would need to add more to the deal. Next years 1st would be a minimum.

The Pacers could throw in the financial flexibility to sign Horford next year. That is a good enough reason to make this deal. If not, OK, how about we go after Horford next year instead. I am sure the Hawks would rather keep Horford than Smith. I would rather have Horford and I would give him a max deal (under the new CBA) to come here. The Hawks will probably make every effort to trade Smith before next year and we have some peices that fit their needs. Whether they like them or not is a different story.

Hicks
07-06-2010, 12:03 PM
You don't refrain from making good moves for your team because of what might happen 6 years later. That's insane.

MLB007
07-06-2010, 12:35 PM
I THINK we are in need of a PF.

Fixed. Some of us think Tyler and Josh and Danny will do just fine. IF George is a real player then Danny is going to have to play more 4 for us to get our best 5 on the floor.



The Hawks have recently been exploring the possibility of trading power forward Josh Smith as part of their summertime makeover, according to sources around the league.
Source:http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/05/shaq-weighing-offer-from-hawks-to-join-johnson/

If he's so great (and he is a very good player) WHY are the Hawks trading him?

pacergod2
07-06-2010, 12:51 PM
If he's so great (and he is a very good player) WHY are the Hawks trading him?

Money. They would rather have their money going towards their better players. Plus he has a lot more value on the open market than Marvin Williams does. I doubt they want to be in LT hell for the next three or four years either.

odeez
07-06-2010, 12:55 PM
So then it must be asked, if the Hawks want a center for Josh Smith, would you put Hibbert up for him?

Nah, I want him to play with Roy, but that is probably who they would want.

Trophy
07-06-2010, 01:14 PM
I'd bring him here in a heartbeat and I think would have interest.

I'd somehow try to trade them Dahntay in the deal.

cdash
07-06-2010, 01:16 PM
If he's so great (and he is a very good player) WHY are the Hawks trading him?

I think they want to move Horford to his natural position at the 4 and they want to bring in a legit 5 in order to do so. J-Smoove has had his problems with the coaching staff there and I think Atlanta realized they might have reached their ceiling with the current roster. They obviously preferred to keep Joe Johnson and make other moves around him, and there have been whispers of J-Smoove being on the market in the past.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:20 PM
I don't know, I read through this whole thread and it looked to me like you have pretty much just been spewing out a whole bunch of nonsense.

Not that you "got sidetracked by some dude." I dont think he'd work well here in the long run. Spew this.......SMD!

tadscout
07-06-2010, 01:26 PM
If he's so great (and he is a very good player) WHY are the Hawks trading him?

They are wanting to sign Shaq to Start at C and move Horford to his natural PF... Thus making Smith a little more valuable to them as trade bait-hahahaa :p (random finding nemo reference...)

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:26 PM
You don't refrain from making good moves for your team because of what might happen 6 years later. That's insane. yeh lets "rent" him for a couple of years and give up some valuable assets..... thinking long term regarding an elite PF with holes in his game, wow I was so out of line and insane.

And then how do you know it'd be "good move", have you seen the proposed trade? You have inside info? Its not like anyone has seen the proposed trade, so who knows anything about a "good move"?

Yes it would be nice to get him in a "fair" deal, but reaching for this specific guy is INSANE! ATL is running him off so......so that leads me to believe if they dont want him "long term", then neither should we.

cdash
07-06-2010, 01:28 PM
yeh lets "rent" him for a couple of years and give up some valuable assets..... thinking long term regarding an elite PF, wow I was so out of line and insane.

Not out of line or insane, just a little ridiculous. Granger is probably going to decline in 6-7 years...should we cut the cord there?

Kid Minneapolis
07-06-2010, 01:29 PM
I lurves me some Josh Smith.

tadscout
07-06-2010, 01:32 PM
yeh lets "rent" him for a couple of years and give up some valuable assets..... thinking long term regarding an elite PF with holes in his game, wow I was so out of line and insane.

Though not considering/thinking the long term media/ fan backlash risk of signing AI (If he does his normal blow up like his last 3 stops) isn't insane?

(sorry for straying to another thread topic, but just pointing out your contradictory thinking between the threads...)

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:37 PM
Though not considering/thinking the long term media/ fan backlash risk of signing AI (If he does his normal blow up like his last 3 stops) isn't insane?

(sorry for straying to another thread topic, but just pointing out your contradictory thinking between the threads...) some of you are just hilarious. Big difference in bringing in a 1 year player who costs us little or bringing in a guy we could get stuck with long term and could be a problem child. Not even a good comparison.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:42 PM
Not out of line or insane, just a little ridiculous. Granger is probably going to decline in 6-7 years...should we cut the cord there? We already own Granger, whos a great guy and a franchise player all things considering. Getting tied up long term with Smith, who looks as if he has a huge attitude and downside, could be a problem for us in the future. DUCY?

tadscout
07-06-2010, 01:46 PM
some of you are just hilarious. Big difference in bringing in a 1 year player who costs us little or bringing in a guy we could get stuck with long term and could be a problem child. Not even a good comparison.

Ummm big difference... AI has a pass of being a problem child on and off the court! We can't afford anymore off court BS... and despite AI being a 1 year rental, he'd be a much bigger profile b/c of his hall of fame career, so if it doesn't work out via him throwing tantrum over playing time or an off court issue fans won't be happy.

Smith, pretty much just with his coach Woodson if I remember right...

btowncolt
07-06-2010, 01:49 PM
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/Roscoe4President/i-like-where-this-thread-is-going.jpg

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 01:55 PM
its funny, when I first read the Smith on the block, I was excited about the possibility of maybe him coming here and posted how I thought how cool it'd be. No one responds.

Then when I took a step back and thought about the big picture if we got wrapped up in this "specific" player, it looked like fools gold and I post reasons why. Then like 7 posters come swinging off their high horses and wanna fill me in on how Im so wrong about doubting this guy would be a good Pacer. Keep em coming, Im not going anywhere till that Hicks guy bans me.

PaceBalls
07-06-2010, 01:57 PM
some of you are just hilarious. Big difference in bringing in a 1 year player who costs us little or bringing in a guy we could get stuck with long term and could be a problem child. Not even a good comparison.

What is it? a rental for 2-3 years or stuck long term? Your logic in this whole thread has holes in it, and when someone points out how ridiculous it is you don't seem to get it. I am finding you quite hilarious :laugh:

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 02:00 PM
What is it? a rental for 2-3 years or stuck long term? Your logic in this whole thread has holes in it, and when someone points out how ridiculous it is you don't seem to get it. I am finding you quite hilarious :laugh: you're lost and reading comprehension is skewed. I said bring Iverson in for 1 year.

I said I'd like to have Smith for 3-4 years tops, which wont happen because once he played here he would be resigned because we have money to spend and long term deals to offer. I dont want this guy playing for us close to his 30's. When he loses his athleticism he wont have any offensive skills left. His J is bad, horrible free throw shooter, and has yelled at his coach many times from the bench. DUCY?

BornReady
07-06-2010, 02:04 PM
with respect to athleticism, gopacers does have a point
remember guys, its not the age that counts, but the miles
tmac comes to mind
on the other hand, josh smith would be a wonderful fit imo and would automatically make us a young playoff team :)

vnzla81
07-06-2010, 02:12 PM
people get need to trade Danny, the guy in three years is going to be 30 years old and is going to slow down and then we need to trade our new guy Paul George because in 10 years he is going to slow down and we would have money to resign him and that is going to suck ..........................:panic::onozomg: :onozomg:

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 02:15 PM
people get need to trade Danny, the guy in three years is going to be 30 years old and is going to slow down and then we need to trade our new guy Paul George because in 10 years he is going to slow down and we would have money to resign him and that is going to suck ..........................:panic::onozomg: :onozomg: Im gonna get another infraction if I keep reading these stupid counter argument posts. Smith has played 6 seasons, over 30 mins a game in each one. Smith will be a 10 year vet at 28. Thats miles son. Get a clue.

cdash
07-06-2010, 02:15 PM
We already own Granger, whos a great guy and a franchise player all things considering. Getting tied up long term with Smith, who looks as if he has a huge attitude and downside, could be a problem for us in the future. DUCY?

His attitude is the only thing that should concern you with him. He's only on the books for three more seasons, so it's not like this could be a long term killer even if he does prove to be a nuisance. He won't start really declining until he's in his 30s, at which point it probably wouldn't matter much to us.

PaceBalls
07-06-2010, 02:17 PM
you're lost and reading comprehension is skewed. I said bring Iverson in for 1 year.

I said I'd like to have Smith for 3-4 years tops, which wont happen because once he played here he would be resigned because we have money to spend and long term deals to offer. I dont want this guy playing for us close to his 30's. When he loses his athleticism he wont have any offensive skills left. His J is bad, horrible free throw shooter, and has yelled at his coach many times from the bench. DUCY?

How do you know he would be resigned? We have money to spend now but how do you know we will have money in 3-4 years?
Your initial claim is so off base because he is 24 and is not even reached his prime. Just stop now before you look even more ridiculous... if that is possible.

cdash
07-06-2010, 02:17 PM
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/Roscoe4President/i-like-where-this-thread-is-going.jpg

That picture is amazing.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 02:21 PM
How do you know he would be resigned? We have money to spend now but how do you know we will have money in 3-4 years?
Your initial claim is so off base because he is 24 and is not even reached his prime. Just stop now before you look even more ridiculous... if that is possible. how do I know he'll be resigned? Outside of a huge temper blow up by him, he'll immediately be our 2nd best player. The Pacers will then wanna lock him up for 5-6 more years at a big price. Im scared to see his game 5-6 years down the road considering how many NBA mins hes played in his career. Get it, DUCY? jeezus people. Dont argue just to pile on. Quit looking at his age, he's going into his 7th NBA season as a starter, his age means nothing. You mustve been at the top of your class

CableKC
07-06-2010, 02:23 PM
Can someone tell me why the Hawks would be interested in moving Josh Smith in the first Place?

cdash
07-06-2010, 02:24 PM
how do I know he'll be resigned? Outside of a huge temper blow up by him, he'll immediately be our 2nd best player. The Pacers will then wanna lock him up for 5-6 more years at a big price. Im scared to see his game 5-6 years down the road considering how many NBA mins hes played in his career. Get it, DUCY? jeezus people. Dont argue just to pile on.

I don't really think anyone is arguing to pile on. They are arguing because it's a silly point you are trying to make.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 02:24 PM
Can someone tell me why the Hawks would be interested in moving Josh Smith in the first Place? they see the downside in him and they cant pay him, Johnson, and Horford big money altogether.

CooperManning
07-06-2010, 02:25 PM
yeh lets "rent" him for a couple of years and give up some valuable assets..... thinking long term regarding an elite PF with holes in his game, wow I was so out of line and insane.

A guy with 3 years/36 mil left on his contract is not a rental. You're thinking longterm about a 24 year old PF who was second team all-defense and 3rd in the league in blocked shots. If you don't like Smith, then you must think one of three things: the Pacers' answer at PF is on the roster right now, the Pacers should acquire a better PF via trade or future free agent signing, or the Pacers should wait and draft a PF next year. Let's examine the middle option, trading/signing a player. Here's a decently comprehensive list of the top PF's in the league. In parentheses is my reason why they're not realistic options for the Pacers.

- Dirk Nowitzki (Just not happening)
- Amar'e Stoudemire (NYK)
- Chris Bosh (Nope)
- Pau Gasol (Nope)
- Tim Duncan (Nope)
- Al Jefferson
- Josh Smith
- Al Horford
- David West
- Rashard Lewis (terrible contract)
- Carlos Boozer (will sign a longterm deal with another team this off-season)
- Antawn Jamison (too old)
- David Lee (will sign a longterm deal with another team this off-season)
- LaMarcus Aldridge (Portland won't trade him)
- Troy Murphy
- Kevin Love (no reason to trade him to us)
- Elton Brand (terrible contract)
- Nene (no reason to trade him to us)
- Marcus Camby (too old)
- Zach Randolph
- Shawn Marion (too old)
- Al Harrington (will sign deal this off-season)
- Boris Diaw
- Luis Scola (will likely sign longterm with Rockets or another team this off-season)
- Andrea Bargnani (no reason to trade him to us)
- Rasheed Wallace (too old)
Carl Landry
Jeff Green
Jason Thompson

I'm also going to eliminate Murphy because he sucks and Diaw because I think most of us can agree Diaw isn't the answer at PF.

This narrows the list to:

Al Jefferson
Josh Smith
Al Horford
David West
Zach Randolph
Carl Landry
Jeff Green
Jason Thompson

To get Jefferson or Smith, we would have to trade, as they both have three years left on their deals. Thompson won't be restricted for another two seasons. Horford and Green will be restricted next off-season. West, Randolph, and Landry will be unrestricted next off-season. So to sum it up, here's how we'd have to acquire these guys:

Jefferson (trade)
Smith (trade)
Thompson (trade/2012 restricted FA signing)
Horford (2011 restricted FA signing)
Green (2011 restricted FA signing)
West (2011 FA signing)
Randolph (2011 FA signing)
Landry (2011 FA signing)

In all likelihood we don't want Jefferson and his poor defense and aren't going to make a deal with Minnesota. In all likelihood ATL will do everything they can to keep Horford. In all likelihood, Zach Randolph will never wear a Pacer uniform. So the question is, which of these options is glaringly better than trading for Josh Smith?

Jason Thompson (trade or 2012 restricted FA signing)
Jeff Green (2011 restricted FA signing)
David West (2011 FA signing)
Carl Landry (2011 FA signing)
Hoping Hansbrough/McRoberts/Rolle fill the 4.
Drafting a PF in next year's draft.

cdash
07-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Can someone tell me why the Hawks would be interested in moving Josh Smith in the first Place?

I posted this earlier in the thread to a similar question:


I think they want to move Horford to his natural position at the 4 and they want to bring in a legit 5 in order to do so. J-Smoove has had his problems with the coaching staff there and I think Atlanta realized they might have reached their ceiling with the current roster. They obviously preferred to keep Joe Johnson and make other moves around him, and there have been whispers of J-Smoove being on the market in the past.

PaceBalls
07-06-2010, 02:32 PM
how do I know he'll be resigned? Outside of a huge temper blow up by him, he'll immediately be our 2nd best player. The Pacers will then wanna lock him up for 5-6 more years at a big price. Im scared to see his game 5-6 years down the road considering how many NBA mins hes played in his career. Get it, DUCY? jeezus people. Dont argue just to pile on. Quit looking at his age, he's going into his 7th NBA season as a starter, his age means nothing. You mustve been at the top of your class

Ahh... the irony of you insinuating that I am not very smart is quite satisfying, thanks. Good way to start off on the board guy. Be insulting and call people names. :thumbup:

Shade
07-06-2010, 02:33 PM
Oh, the irony of seeing Josh Smith end up in Indy... :laugh:

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 02:33 PM
Good post Cooper.

Smith is in his prime right now. Hes going in his 7th season as a full time starter, what youve seen from him the last 2 years is the best you'll get out of the kid. So landing him now, he's gonna impress everyone with his D and athleticism. Pacers will then look to extend him with a contract more than likely and I dont feel Smith will be an elite PF 5 years down the road, but he'll be paid like one.

Justin Tyme
07-06-2010, 02:34 PM
Whether they like them or not is a different story.


That's the point! Why is the Pacers deal so great? It's not. Another team with cap space or an expiring contract and better assets to trade will be a better trade pardner than the Pacers. An expiring contract just to keep Horford next year is a lame trade proposal. IOW, you are trading a near Allstar so you can keep Hordford with a pu pu platter of Rush and whatever in return. Click and dead silence on the phone is all Bird will hear with that offer.

Some want a near Allstar and only to give up Murphy and Rush. Pacer fans value their players way too high. Maybe that's also the reason Bird couldn't get a deal done at draft time. Let's be realistic in that other teams don't value Rush, McBob, Rolle, etc as high as Pacer fans do. Other teams want a fair to good return for their players, not just giving them away. I've always said anyone can give something away. It doesn't take a salesman to do that. A good salesman sells the product at a good value and doesn't give it away. With the trade offers I've read in this thread for Josh Smith, people are expecting to get Josh Smith for next to nothing. Apparently, they must think Atlanta is in a fire sale mode. How many would trade Granger for Murphy and Rush? I didn't think so!


I'd be more than happy getting Al Horford next season!!

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 02:37 PM
Ahh... the irony of you insinuating that I am not very smart is quite satisfying, thanks. Good way to start off on the board guy. Be insulting and call people names. :thumbup: lol dude. You dont even reply to my Smith argument, you bring up some off base stuff lol. You were calling me ridiculous earlier itt and I countered with my rationale on getting Smith here. I didnt call you any names. Keep it about basketball, too many, like you, are taking my Pacers talk way too personal. Lighten up

CooperManning
07-06-2010, 02:40 PM
Good post Cooper.

Smith is in his prime right now. Hes going in his 7th season as a full time starter, what youve seen from him the last 2 years is the best you'll get out of the kid. So landing him now, he's gonna impress everyone with his D and athleticism. Pacers will then look to extend him with a contract more than likely and I dont feel Smith will be an elite PF 5 years down the road, but he'll be paid like one.

Thanks, but my question wasn't rhetorical.


So the question is, which of these options is glaringly better than trading for Josh Smith?

Jason Thompson (trade or 2012 restricted FA signing)
Jeff Green (2011 restricted FA signing)
David West (2011 FA signing)
Carl Landry (2011 FA signing)
Hoping Hansbrough/McRoberts/Rolle fill the 4.
Drafting a PF in next year's draft.

Or maybe you have another player in mind?

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 02:43 PM
Thanks, but my question wasn't rhetorical.



Or maybe you have another player in mind? We drafted Tyler in the lottery, so in my mind, he's our starting PF of the future. We passed on too many potential "starting" PG's to just let Tyler come off the bench. Some of this is involved in my poor draft thread, did we get Tyler as a trophy or are we gonna start him? If he was drafted that high , he must start for us when he's healthy. Otherwise, another fumbled draft.

MyFavMartin
07-06-2010, 02:47 PM
Kings have a ton of cap space next year and so there might be a bidding war for Landry.

tadscout
07-06-2010, 02:51 PM
That's the point! Why is the Pacers deal so great? It's not. Another team with cap space or an expiring contract and better assets to trade will be a better trade pardner than the Pacers. An expiring contract just to keep Horford next year is a lame trade proposal. IOW, you are trading a near Allstar so you can keep Hordford with a pu pu platter of Rush and whatever in return. Click and dead silence on the phone is all Bird will hear with that offer.

Some want a near Allstar and only to give up Murphy and Rush. Pacer fans value their players way too high. Maybe that's also the reason Bird couldn't get a deal done at draft time. Let's be realistic in that other teams don't value Rush, McBob, Rolle, etc as high as Pacer fans do. Other teams want a fair to good return for their players, not just giving them away. I've always said anyone can give something away. It doesn't take a salesman to do that. A good salesman sells the product at a good value and doesn't give it away. With the trade offers I've read in this thread for Josh Smith, people are expecting to get Josh Smith for next to nothing. Apparently, they must think Atlanta is in a fire sale mode. How many would trade Granger for Murphy and Rush? I didn't think so!


I'd be more than happy getting Al Horford next season!!

I think you missed the part of them looking to sign Shaq and them moving Horford to his natural PF position like he has been begging them too...

That leaves them to use Smith as a trade chip to add depth/ get an expiring to guarantee they can resign Horford...

They aren't in firesale mode, they are just trying to change the dynamic of their team a little that keeps staling at the 2nd round... and to ensure they can resign Horford.

CableKC
07-06-2010, 02:52 PM
I posted this earlier in the thread to a similar question:
I could be wrong...but I thought I saw on the NBATV newsfeed that the Hawks maybe interested in bringing in Shaq?

Cherokee
07-06-2010, 02:54 PM
I'm a big Troy Murphy fan, but I'd trade him for Josh Smith in a heartbeat.

tadscout
07-06-2010, 02:54 PM
I could be wrong...but I thought I saw on the NBATV newsfeed that the Hawks maybe interested in bringing in Shaq?

Yes, that is what started the whole conversation... (check the link in the original post ;) )

Pacergeek
07-06-2010, 03:04 PM
Smith is a basketball player. Let's stop with all of this labeling nonsense. Is he a PF, SF, C, G, who the hell cares? Smith would be an upgrade over any position on our roster, including Granger. If we have an opportunity to get him, we should get him.

pacergod2
07-06-2010, 03:05 PM
That's the point! Why is the Pacers deal so great? It's not. Another team with cap space or an expiring contract and better assets to trade will be a better trade pardner than the Pacers. An expiring contract just to keep Horford next year is a lame trade proposal. IOW, you are trading a near Allstar so you can keep Hordford with a pu pu platter of Rush and whatever in return. Click and dead silence on the phone is all Bird will hear with that offer.

Some want a near Allstar and only to give up Murphy and Rush. Pacer fans value their players way too high. Maybe that's also the reason Bird couldn't get a deal done at draft time. Let's be realistic in that other teams don't value Rush, McBob, Rolle, etc as high as Pacer fans do. Other teams want a fair to good return for their players, not just giving them away. I've always said anyone can give something away. It doesn't take a salesman to do that. A good salesman sells the product at a good value and doesn't give it away. With the trade offers I've read in this thread for Josh Smith, people are expecting to get Josh Smith for next to nothing. Apparently, they must think Atlanta is in a fire sale mode. How many would trade Granger for Murphy and Rush? I didn't think so!


I'd be more than happy getting Al Horford next season!!

I would LOVE to get Al Horford next year as well. I have been clamoring for that since that draft when most of our expirings would be up. I really like Horford in a franchise player kind of way. He is probably on Granger's level at PF. He would be well worth the price and he is an exceptional person from what I have heard, but I clearly don't know him.

As for the actual trade proposals, I was thinking that the basis of what we would give them would start with Troy Murphy as a very good compliment as an expiring contract at PF. There would obviously have to be a first rounder and another young player involved, but that all depends on what the Hawks like.

There probably is another team that could give them a better offer, but I think it is an avenue we ought to pursue. I think we would be remissed if we didn't make the effort to see what it would cost us. You never know how desperate a team is until you lowball them enough times that you finally figure out what they will take. That's negotiation, not sales.

PS - gopacers1179, it would probably do you well to be a little more thorough before you finish your posts. The less you think, the more misunderstandings there will be, especially on a blog forum such as this one. I think some of your thoughts are very valid opinions. Do I disagree with some of them, such as the imminent re-signing of Josh Smith if we obtained him? Absolutely. But it doesn't mean they aren't valid. The other posters do have some legitimate qualms with your posts, in that they seem to be less of a cogent thought and more of an argument. Its not your ideas, it is just difficult to follow your thoughts comprehensively when there are twelve posts and only a half a thought in each. Half the posts and twice the thought will probably keep you out of trouble. I had to do the same exact thing when I first started here.

PPS - Oh and this is my edit... that if you proofread your posts it will go a LONG way. See i still proofread and edit my posts!!!

TooBigNdaPaint
07-06-2010, 03:08 PM
It's a crazy pipe dream to even think that Josh Smith would WANT to sign with a rebuilding Pacer team. Also, Joe Johnson has now resigned with the Hawks and there's NO way he would want Hawk management to let Josh Smith walk away. With 53 wins last year and the Celtics getting one year older, the Hawks are closer to going further in the playoffs but need a few more pieces (that includes Josh Smith's insane athleticism). People can blame Joe and Josh for their playoff loss last year but this Hawk team still needs another star on the team to go further.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 03:11 PM
I agree wholeheartedly Pacer. Youre def right. Some have made good counter points and have corrected a mistake of mine or two but alot of people on here I would hate to have to deal with in real life. Alot of people are wearing goggles and have no realm of imagination. Theyre just like, yeh I'd trade Murphy in a second for one of the best PF's in the league. Duhhhh,

BRushWithDeath
07-06-2010, 03:14 PM
I'd trade Murphy in a second for one of the best PF's in the league. Duhhhh,

If that isn't a "Duhhh", I don't know what is.

pacergod2
07-06-2010, 03:18 PM
No doubt buddy. There are a lot of people on here that I bicker with incessantly, like Justin Time and cdash. Hi guys!!! There are a lot of things they are very opinionated on that I am just as opinionated on in the opposite manner. We have harsher discourse sometimes, but I will tell you that they are some of the best posters on this forum because they keep you on your toes and are insightful no matter if you agree or not. We are all mostly rational in our own minds. You just can't take it personal and try to listen to the heart of their messages. You might learn something. You can't try to make them listen. They will listen when they want to, but you gain their respect with great posts and thoughtful counter arguments. I love your enthusiasm and definitely respect some of the things you have said. You will get used to it the more you post and it will be a rewarding experience if you let it.

Hillman's 'Fro'
07-06-2010, 03:26 PM
gopacers1179-

With respect to your take on Hans being the long term solution at
PF, assuming Hans's health allows it, I suspect that Bird probably
wholeheartedly agrees.

Besides, upgrading both the Pacers G spots ( no pun intended !)
is a much bigger priority than the PF spot anyway (if we need--
to use a VERY overused point of reference--a Dale Davis-esque
PF to help protect/cover up Hibbert's deficiencies that's probably
more an indication that Hibbs may not be the answer at C than
anything else).

Note: The needed uprade at SG could come from a light sudddenly coming
on in Rush's head, George taking to the NBA like a duck to water, a
combo of both or an acquisition.

As for Josh Smith, I see him having further to go from a growth
standpoint. It was really just in the last year or so that he's finally
begun to get it in terms of doing the little things that lead to winning
as opposed to just amassing stats and helping create ESPN highlight
reels.

esabyrn333
07-06-2010, 03:31 PM
I am pretty sure gopacers1179 isn't making his point because he feels like he is being attacked so he is trying to defend himself.

CableKC
07-06-2010, 03:37 PM
Yes, that is what started the whole conversation... (check the link in the original post ;) )
That requires that I go through this entire thread and actually read.....I'm too lazy to do that ;)

pacers74
07-06-2010, 03:52 PM
First if you could get J. Smith you go after him. He is already a star in the NBA. He is young and will be a stud for at least 6 more years. We would be set at PF. Would we trade Hibbert for him, probably not. We don't have anyone else that is good enought o start at the center spot except Hibbert. We have 2 or 3 guys that can start at PF. Murphy, Hansbrough, and even McBob.

naptownmenace
07-06-2010, 03:55 PM
If the Pacers can get JSmith for Murphy and another bit player, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Why anyone wouldn't do that is beyond me - especially since it's so slanted in the Pacers favor.

I doubt they could get him for just that. They'd probably have to add in a lottery-protected future 1st rounder as well. Even then I think the Pacers should definitely consider it.

I don't get where he's too small to play PF. IMO, PF is his natural position and I thought he had his best season this year because they basically played him exclusively at PF. He's never been a liability when matched up with bigger guys on the defensive end. He's always shutdown Murphy each time the Pacers played the Hawks the past two seasons (don't laugh. Murphy might be deficient on the defensive end but he is good offensive player).

BornReady
07-06-2010, 03:57 PM
Can someone tell me why the Hawks would be interested in moving Josh Smith in the first Place?

I think its so they can lock up Horford next year? I'm not completely certain but they're not exactly in a good financial situation after signing Joe Johnson to an albatross contract :)

pacers74
07-06-2010, 03:58 PM
I would rather have J.Smith over Horford.

PacersPride
10-01-2010, 10:13 PM
instead of trading for Randolph, I think Josh Smith would be a much better option. With the hawks expressing they will play horford more at the pf position, where does that leave josh smith? he is not a small forward is he?

if we have a first rounder, and add rush (he could replace crawford), the hawks might go for it. we could add tj ford as well to match salaries.

prefer this over randolph in exchange for a first.

Sookie
10-01-2010, 10:15 PM
instead of trading for Randolph, I think Josh Smith would be a much better option. With the hawks expressing they will play horford more at the pf position, where does that leave josh smith? he is not a small forward is he?

if we have a first rounder, and add rush (he could replace crawford), the hawks might go for it. we could add tj ford as well to match salaries.

prefer this over randolph in exchange for a first.

That'd be a good 2 for 1 for us too.

vnzla81
10-01-2010, 10:20 PM
I have a feeling that Paul George is going to be our Power Forward for some time, just like Josh Smith, Jeff Green and Rashard Lewis.

Sookie
10-01-2010, 10:32 PM
I have a feeling that Paul George is going to be our Power Forward for some time, just like Josh Smith, Jeff Green and Rashard Lewis.

I like the idea of him being our shooting guard though.

ChristianDudley
10-01-2010, 10:32 PM
I have a feeling that Paul George is going to be our Power Forward for some time, just like Josh Smith, Jeff Green and Rashard Lewis.

what are you talking about? O'Brien would put Dahntay there at PF before he'd think about putting PG24 there lmao :blush:

BlueNGold
10-01-2010, 10:44 PM
I have a feeling that Paul George is going to be our Power Forward for some time, just like Josh Smith, Jeff Green and Rashard Lewis.

If that happens, we will never contend. There's a reason Orlando gets flushed pretty hard when they face a well put together team. Most of the time, you can't go small at PF and expect to win it all. Not even with Dwight Howard in the middle.

vnzla81
10-01-2010, 10:58 PM
I'm just saying that if you want a guy like Josh Smith I think we have our own small power forward in PG, he is athletic, can get to the hoop and is pretty much the same size(JS is like 20 pounds heavier)

PacersPride
10-01-2010, 11:32 PM
A guy with 3 years/36 mil left on his contract is not a rental. You're thinking longterm about a 24 year old PF who was second team all-defense and 3rd in the league in blocked shots. If you don't like Smith, then you must think one of three things: the Pacers' answer at PF is on the roster right now, the Pacers should acquire a better PF via trade or future free agent signing, or the Pacers should wait and draft a PF next year. Let's examine the middle option, trading/signing a player. Here's a decently comprehensive list of the top PF's in the league. In parentheses is my reason why they're not realistic options for the Pacers.

- Dirk Nowitzki (Just not happening)
- Amar'e Stoudemire (NYK)
- Chris Bosh (Nope)
- Pau Gasol (Nope)
- Tim Duncan (Nope)
- Al Jefferson
- Josh Smith
- Al Horford
- David West
- Rashard Lewis (terrible contract)
- Carlos Boozer (will sign a longterm deal with another team this off-season)
- Antawn Jamison (too old)
- David Lee (will sign a longterm deal with another team this off-season)
- LaMarcus Aldridge (Portland won't trade him)
- Troy Murphy
- Kevin Love (no reason to trade him to us)
- Elton Brand (terrible contract)
- Nene (no reason to trade him to us)
- Marcus Camby (too old)
- Zach Randolph
- Shawn Marion (too old)
- Al Harrington (will sign deal this off-season)
- Boris Diaw
- Luis Scola (will likely sign longterm with Rockets or another team this off-season)
- Andrea Bargnani (no reason to trade him to us)
- Rasheed Wallace (too old)
Carl Landry
Jeff Green
Jason Thompson

I'm also going to eliminate Murphy because he sucks and Diaw because I think most of us can agree Diaw isn't the answer at PF.

This narrows the list to:

Al Jefferson
Josh Smith
Al Horford
David West
Zach Randolph
Carl Landry
Jeff Green
Jason Thompson

To get Jefferson or Smith, we would have to trade, as they both have three years left on their deals. Thompson won't be restricted for another two seasons. Horford and Green will be restricted next off-season. West, Randolph, and Landry will be unrestricted next off-season. So to sum it up, here's how we'd have to acquire these guys:

Jefferson (trade)
Smith (trade)
Thompson (trade/2012 restricted FA signing)
Horford (2011 restricted FA signing)
Green (2011 restricted FA signing)
West (2011 FA signing)
Randolph (2011 FA signing)
Landry (2011 FA signing)

In all likelihood we don't want Jefferson and his poor defense and aren't going to make a deal with Minnesota. In all likelihood ATL will do everything they can to keep Horford. In all likelihood, Zach Randolph will never wear a Pacer uniform. So the question is, which of these options is glaringly better than trading for Josh Smith?

Jason Thompson (trade or 2012 restricted FA signing)
Jeff Green (2011 restricted FA signing)
David West (2011 FA signing)
Carl Landry (2011 FA signing)
Hoping Hansbrough/McRoberts/Rolle fill the 4.
Drafting a PF in next year's draft.


This is an excellent summary. Reading through this thread many have mentioned Smith would be excellent alongside Hibbert, wondering why many think this? Seems like Jason Thompson would be a better fit imo. However if Bird truly does want long and atheletic, then I guess Thompson is not the answer at PF.

jeffg-body
10-01-2010, 11:37 PM
I think Josh Smith would fit in well with what we are trying to do. Plus Atlanta may need to move him to be able to offer the max to Horford. I think him next to Roy would be very much an upgrade. As long as they don't ask for Granger, George, Hibby, Collison, or Rolle I would be ok with a trade with any of the rest of the guys. Maybe swinging a deal for a 1st rounder, Rush, Solo or Jeff (if they think they are a contender). If they are trying to shed that salary, they could even pick from our expirings and if that would happen we may be able to not offer the 1st rounder.

1984
10-01-2010, 11:47 PM
I live the idea, frankly Hibbett, Smith, Granger, any of our SG's, and Collison would be a line up worthy of contention. Not to mention if Price, Hansbrough, and Rush/George were on the bench. However, ATL will not give Smith away, and i dont know who or what we could offer in a trade, particularly one that places us qbove the luxary tax. Perhaps theyd be interested in draft choices or expiring contracts, but honestly I doubt the rumors validity.

PacersPride
10-02-2010, 12:01 AM
I think Josh Smith would fit in well with what we are trying to do. Plus Atlanta may need to move him to be able to offer the max to Horford. I think him next to Roy would be very much an upgrade. As long as they don't ask for Granger, George, Hibby, Collison, or Rolle I would be ok with a trade with any of the rest of the guys. Maybe swinging a deal for a 1st rounder, Rush, Solo or Jeff (if they think they are a contender). If they are trying to shed that salary, they could even pick from our expirings and if that would happen we may be able to not offer the 1st rounder.

A first rounder would have to be included, and if they take TJ (expiring which helps them resign Horford, who we are not likely to sign anyways) and Rush (Crawfords replacement); ATL might take it, and we have an all-star level PF for the next 3 years.

If ever JOB's system is going to work, this would be the team needed.

pg: DC, AJ, Stephenson
sg: Dunleavy, George, Jones
sf: Granger, Posey
pf: Smith, Hansbro, McBob
c: Hibbs, Foster, Rolle, Solo

* would prefer to keep Rush if its possible. 1st, Ford, Solo, 2nd for Smith? love or hate rush he is valuable to this team, esp not knowing if Dunleavy can stay healthy.

Sookie
10-02-2010, 12:11 AM
A first rounder would have to be included, and if they take TJ (expiring which helps them resign Horford, who we are not likely to sign anyways) and Rush (Crawfords replacement); ATL might take it, and we have an all-star level PF for the next 3 years.

If ever JOB's system is going to work, this would be the team needed.

pg: DC, AJ, Stephenson
sg: Dunleavy, George, Jones
sf: Granger, Posey
pf: Smith, Hansbro, McBob
c: Hibbs, Foster, Rolle, Solo

* would prefer to keep Rush if its possible. 1st, Ford, Solo, 2nd for Smith? love or hate rush he is valuable to this team, esp not knowing if Dunleavy can stay healthy.

That's a good young team. Personally (so long as he's on the team.) I'd like to remove Posey and Jones from the rotation and have George split tiem at the 2/3, and allow Stephenson to play at the 1 and 2, as well. Just so he gets experience at both.

PacersPride
10-02-2010, 12:12 AM
I live the idea, frankly Hibbett, Smith, Granger, any of our SG's, and Collison would be a line up worthy of contention. Not to mention if Price, Hansbrough, and Rush/George were on the bench. However, ATL will not give Smith away, and i dont know who or what we could offer in a trade, particularly one that places us qbove the luxary tax. Perhaps theyd be interested in draft choices or expiring contracts, but honestly I doubt the rumors validity.

if Horford moves to PF, it has to make Smith expendable, couple that with the fact ATL needs financial cap relief as well, and the trade makes sense for them. could they get more, very likely but im not sure Smith is worth 2 first rounders. a first & second rounder, 2 expirings in the amount of 10 million, add in the trade exception and that has to be close to market value for Smith. not sure i would do it, but if we give them 2 firsts not sure that would really hurt us, we still have trade chips and the pacers would be very solid. two firsts would be too much but would get it done. the only question then is are we competitive enough to beat the heat?

we would have rush, jones, george to throw at d wade/ miller. granger on lebron. smith, hansbro to battle bosh. hibbs on big z.

our depth would be stronger and with experience in a 7 game series we might give them a run for their money in a year or two with this lineup.

bottom line, smith is likely to be available considering ATL's financial status and logjam at the PF position.

spreedom
10-02-2010, 12:51 AM
I honestly don't see Atlanta having any kind of fire sale in the next couple of years. Can their team, as currently constructed, win it all? Probably not (a total of 7 different franchises have won the NBA championship in the last 30 years) but they can probably still avoid the tax and stay competitive. This last offseason has shown that no matter how overpaid (Al Jefferson) or unproductive (Hedo Turkoglu) you are, there's always a team out there that can't wait to send you expiring contracts for the players you don't want/need to trim (Mike Bibby, Marvin Williams). I'd say those two and Jamal Crawford will be the ones to be send packing before Josh Smith. And FWIW, I'd trade anyone on our team beside Hibbert and Collison for him, and that's only because their potential is still high and they're players at important positions. J-Smith (not trying to make a nickname, just saving time... oh wait) is one of the most uniquely skilled players in the entire league -- not only that, but his decision-making is much-improved from even "last season" (08-09). He is looking for higher-percentage shots and is arguably the most versatile defensive player in the league. I'd trust him to guard 99% of the players in the league (exceptions being huge guys that can score, like D12/Yao/Shaq). The only other guy I would say that for is LeBron, though I think he plays off-balance and gambles too much to be a true "lockdown" defender. In a league with a true hierarchy that is dominated by teams that can put the clamps on you defensively, that's really an invaluable skillset to have.


BTW, why exactly did this get topped? I mean, I understand literally why (speculative rehashing of the Anthony Randolph trade-that-wasn't), but I really got excited before I weeded through the posts (on my phone... took forever) before I was disappointed in discovering that there were no new rumors or gossip suggesting that he was on our radar in a realistic scenario.

pacer4ever
10-02-2010, 01:26 AM
We are in need of a PF and a PG.

What do you guys think of Josh Smith?

He's athletic, plays great defense, and can finish around the rim. He would be a perfect fit with Hibbert.


The Hawks have recently been exploring the possibility of trading power forward Josh Smith as part of their summertime makeover, according to sources around the league.
Source:http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/05/shaq-weighing-offer-from-hawks-to-join-johnson/

that article was written a while ago

Justin Tyme
10-02-2010, 04:25 AM
if Horford moves to PF, it has to make Smith expendable, couple that with the fact ATL needs financial cap relief as well, and the trade makes sense for them. could they get more, very likely but im not sure Smith is worth 2 first rounders. a first & second rounder, 2 expirings in the amount of 10 million, add in the trade exception and that has to be close to market value for Smith. not sure i would do it, but if we give them 2 firsts not sure that would really hurt us, we still have trade chips and the pacers would be very solid. two firsts would be too much but would get it done. the only question then is are we competitive enough to beat the heat?

we would have rush, jones, george to throw at d wade/ miller. granger on lebron. smith, hansbro to battle bosh. hibbs on big z.

our depth would be stronger and with experience in a 7 game series we might give them a run for their money in a year or two with this lineup.

bottom line, smith is likely to be available considering ATL's financial status and logjam at the PF position.



Trade Exemption can't be used when combined with players in a trade.

bballpacen
10-02-2010, 11:14 AM
Trade Exemption can't be used when combined with players in a trade.
I believe that he was was referring to the incoming TE that ATL would receive in said scenario...