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McKeyFan
07-05-2010, 04:45 PM
Yeah, I gotta go post in the summer league, thread. But I've been watching it on NBA TV.

Ladies and gentleman, we just found our future point guard and the steal of the draft. Lance Stevenson can flat out ball. The only thing I've seen him do wrong so far is miss one foul shot.

He hits his outside jumpers. He drives to the hole. He posts up. He sees the whole floor. He handles the ball great. He can cross over on anyone who tries to steal the ball. He makes the fantastic pass. He makes the pedestrian pass. He gets it with spacing on defense.

He is 6 freaking 5.

The announcers are talking about him like he's all the rage. Because he is. This could transform our team.

I'm ecstatic. Go Pacers.

Rupert Stilinski
07-05-2010, 04:46 PM
I hope you're right and I'm sure this will be the first of many similar posts, but let's temper our emotion a bit after 1 summer league half.

Daniel33
07-05-2010, 04:48 PM
It's Stephenson :)

Deadshot
07-05-2010, 04:58 PM
He has definitely been impressive but his dribbling has been a little loose. He was charged with a carry in the second half. He got trapped at halfcourt at one point because of his lack of handles.

However, he does seem to have a lot of energy and a lot of pop. He seems to be seeing the floor well (several nice passes to Rolle to start the game). If they keep working with him I think he will end up being a great pickup from the draft. I have certainly been more impressed with him over any other players in this game (including George, Orton, Magnum, etc).

Remember, this is the summer league. This doesn't mean we disregard everything he does here, but we also need to look at matters realistically.

Hillman's 'Fro'
07-05-2010, 04:58 PM
Can he stay in front of guys like Paul, Parker, Rondo and Rose ?

purdue101
07-05-2010, 05:01 PM
i'll admit - i'm impressed watching him today.

he needs to work on his handles a bit as he dribbles far too high, but his skill set is phenomenal for a second rounder. he sure can attack the hoop at will. mid range game is solid. court vision is very good for a 2 guard. could definitely be the steal of the draft. reminds me a lot of tyreke evans.

magnum rolle looks like a rotational player as well. great rebounder.

paul george looks akward out there - i'm somewhat disappointed on that front. nice shooting form, but his feel for the game is nowhere near stephenson's.

count55
07-05-2010, 05:02 PM
Can he stay in front of guys like Paul, Parker, Rondo and Rose ?

Who can?

This is all premature, but no question Stephenson has a whole lot of just plain natural ability. Good knack for being able to make something good happen when things get out of control. The Pacers haven't had that since...well..ever.

Of course, this Orlando squad is a far cry from anything he'll see in the real games, so we'll need to see how he responds when he gets destroyed by somebody. (And that will happen.)

Young
07-05-2010, 05:12 PM
Not to take away from anything positive but is summer league play really anything to be excited about?

I think most people have known that Stephenson has had NBA talent and a place in the league if he keeps his head on straight. My concern was/still is what goes on between his ears. Not only about what he does off the court but is he a good teammate? Is he coachable? Time will tell on these things. Glad he has played well so far though.

Rupert Stilinski
07-05-2010, 05:14 PM
Let me also say in this thread, I love Stephenson's game today. If this isn't an absolute aberration, he's the best point guard on the roster, at this point.

purdue101
07-05-2010, 05:15 PM
that pass by stephenson to rolle was sick. top 10 material.

rel
07-05-2010, 05:15 PM
Dang...stephenson is killing these guys

pwee31
07-05-2010, 05:17 PM
I'm excited... that's for sure

dynamis22
07-05-2010, 05:44 PM
Kevin Durant agrees

From His twitter
KDthunderup


"Lance Stephenson is out here in Orlando puttin on a clinic!! He can hoop!!"

D-BONE
07-05-2010, 05:48 PM
Looked great today, but REVOLUTIONIZE? Wow! Hope so, but I need to that consistently against even better comp to go that far. At this point, I don't even know about the PG thing, although it's worth a shot. Definitely worth being excited about.

docpaul
07-05-2010, 05:48 PM
Wow... Lance is blowing up twitter too:

http://twitter.com/#search?q=lance%20stephenson

He's a trending topic.

Nice to be on the good side of news for a change.

Wish I could have seen the game.

Ozwalt72
07-05-2010, 05:49 PM
I'm hoping this is just a taste of what Stephenson can do. He weighed a bit heavy but he definitely looks slimmer than he was. That should contribute to his agility. 6'5 and about 210 is about right for him. Anyway, let's hope he proves capable of PG.

Anthem
07-05-2010, 05:51 PM
that pass by stephenson to rolle was sick.
Which one? Those two bonded instantly... there were several really good passes from Lance to Magnum in this game.

It's like the kid was born ready.

pacers74
07-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Let's not let this get us to high or low. He looked awesome today, and I want to annoint him the savour, but we have to let things play out. He looks like he can run the point, and let's just hope he keeps it up.

rel
07-05-2010, 05:56 PM
sucks for the knicks fans that wanted him and saw NY skip on him @ pick 38 AND 39. Hope he keeps it up and bring some excitement to the team and fill up some seats. I was thoroughly entertained watchin the guy

Roaming Gnome
07-05-2010, 06:07 PM
sucks for the knicks fans that wanted him and saw NY skip on him @ pick 38 AND 39. Hope he keeps it up and bring some excitement to the team and fill up some seats. I was thoroughly entertained watchin the guy

Does this mean that we could have another point guard that hates the Knicks...?

graphic-er
07-05-2010, 06:10 PM
Wished he had some more assists though, 3 is pretty low, but he didn't make any bad turnover. I guess the low assists could be attributed to the talent he has around him in the summer league.

judicata
07-05-2010, 06:12 PM
You guys are jerks for getting me all excited. ;)

Roaming Gnome
07-05-2010, 06:15 PM
Wished he had some more assists though, 3 is pretty low, but he didn't make any bad turnover. I guess the low assists could be attributed to the talent he has around him in the summer league.

Yeah, the 3 assist were pretty low, but he was willing to pass the ball and set guys up. A lot of his passes were just not converted or lead to fouls in our favor!

SoupIsGood
07-05-2010, 06:23 PM
Good to hear!

Los Angeles
07-05-2010, 06:25 PM
You guys are jerks for getting me all excited. ;)

No doubt! :buddies:

IUfan4life
07-05-2010, 06:43 PM
so these are the same fans that hate troy murphy?

ilive4sports
07-05-2010, 06:44 PM
Wished he had some more assists though, 3 is pretty low, but he didn't make any bad turnover. I guess the low assists could be attributed to the talent he has around him in the summer league.

He should have had more. There were numerous times where he set someone up perfectly and they either passed instead of taking their own shot or just didnt convert or got fouled.

I liked what I saw out of Stephenson. I knew he could play, but with him switching to PG I wasn't sure how he would look. Well he showed he is capable of it. Still needs to keep learning, but for just switching to this position in about a week he looked very comfortable. Its better to see him perform well than to suck. Neither mean thats how he will play in the regular season, but its still nice to see something positive.

xBulletproof
07-05-2010, 06:50 PM
Wooooooooah slow it down people.

Stephenson had a good summer league game. In the real NBA, the PG is the hardest position to come in as a rookie and have an immediate impact. I imagine it's twice as difficult for a guy who has never actually been a point guard.

If he plays all year as the backup PG and doesn't annoy me, I'll be impressed.

cordobes
07-05-2010, 06:55 PM
Seemed to me more of a natural scorer than a point-guard, but he's certainly talented. Very old-school,smooth. His style of play reminded me of Michael Redd, a guy who can get to his spots and get shots off using his body well and then keeps knocking them down.

Ballerzfan
07-05-2010, 06:59 PM
Comparing him to Huertel in the game, Lance didn't waste his dribbles. Not that his handle was CP3 like by any means, but it was efficient. More than once Huertel was caught doing fancy dribbling out top and missed a chance to get the ball in the right place at the right time because he was "showing off" imo. And Lance is BULL strong. At this point I don't agree with the people saying he's too slow. He's strong enough and has enough flash to get where he wants WHEN he wants. That's all that necessary.

joew8302
07-05-2010, 07:01 PM
Yeah, this performance was outstanding. If it was any better he could be in the same league with Jerryd Bayless or Marcus Banks.

Seriously, lets take a cold shower. It is obvious the guy is good enough and should make the team, but beyond that he is still an unknown.

Anthem
07-05-2010, 07:01 PM
Wished he had some more assists though, 3 is pretty low, but he didn't make any bad turnover. I guess the low assists could be attributed to the talent he has around him in the summer league.
I'd have sworn he had three passes that were directly converted to dunks by Magnum, not counting anybody else. I'm thinking the official numbers are a bit low.

The bigger issue for me is that he did pass frequently and well. His ppg is way higher than his apg right now (small sample), but I think it will even out over time.

And lets face it, he was playing a guy who was like 5'8". He SHOULD be punishing that guy.

pwee31
07-05-2010, 07:02 PM
That's why i simply said I'm excited. Hibbert and Hansbrough both had excellent summer leagues last year. Even Diener had like a 30 point game in summer league.

All that being said. Stephenson still looks nice

BornReady
07-05-2010, 07:05 PM
I've been excited about this guy since draft night :D
ahh good times are to come ^^

DrFife
07-05-2010, 07:27 PM
I can day-dream with anyone, but here's my question:

Let's say that TPTB soon decide that Lance can develop into a scoring PG, and that therefore a short-contract, decent player such as Farmar (and, by mid-season, Price) to supplement will do just fine.

If so, then whom do we pursue (position-wise) with our expirings? Player X?

BornReady
07-05-2010, 07:34 PM
I can day-dream with anyone, but here's my question:

Let's say that TPTB soon decide that Lance can develop into a scoring PG, and that therefore a short-contract, decent player such as Farmar (and, by mid-season, Price) to supplement will do just fine.

If so, then whom do we pursue (position-wise) with our expirings? Player X?

MORE talent, MORE depth, and whatever else we can get! we can ALWAYS improve :)

Doug
07-05-2010, 07:49 PM
You know, I think I'll just accept that it is true and that Lance will dominate the point guard position, as a Pacer, for the next 12 years.

This thought makes me feel good.


I know I'll have to face that he's a rookie playing the summer league eventually. But for now, I'm happy.

Ozwalt72
07-05-2010, 07:52 PM
I can day-dream with anyone, but here's my question:

Let's say that TPTB soon decide that Lance can develop into a scoring PG, and that therefore a short-contract, decent player such as Farmar (and, by mid-season, Price) to supplement will do just fine.

If so, then whom do we pursue (position-wise) with our expirings? Player X?

Well, going in to next year, other than our two draft picks....

Stephenson/Price
Rush/Dahntay
Granger/George
Hansbrough/McRoberts
Hibbert/Rolle(Though I see him more PF)

That's 9 players with 2 more coming via draft picks. Immediate need would seem to be a starting PF that can play some at center, or Player X as we call him. If there isn't one available, we get a solid backup center capable of playing 20 mpg. Roy will probably never be a high minute guy. Also, by the end of this year we should know what we have in Rush. We may need a starting SG.

In the draft we'd probably look to add another PG if there is value where we pick.

Next Year:
Stephenson/Price/Rookie
FA/Rush/Dahntay
Granger/George
Hansbrough/McRoberts
Hibbert/20mpg center/Rolle

If the right SG came along, and we were able to grab a nice big to compliment Roy....could potentially be a good team. All of this is a HUGE WHAT IF at the point guard position though.

REMEMBER: I'm not saying Stephenson's a solution to ANYTHING. This is Purely what if.

pwee31
07-05-2010, 07:58 PM
I can day-dream with anyone, but here's my question:

Let's say that TPTB soon decide that Lance can develop into a scoring PG, and that therefore a short-contract, decent player such as Farmar (and, by mid-season, Price) to supplement will do just fine.

If so, then whom do we pursue (position-wise) with our expirings? Player X?

http://realgm.net/src_wiretap_archives/67840/20100705/horford_unsure_about_future_in_atlanta/


Al Horford is in the fourth year of his rookie-scale contract, which means he's eligible for a five-year extension.

If Horford doesn't agree to an extension with the Hawks, he would become a restricted free agent next summer.

"I'm not sure, yet," he said when asked if he's open to an extension.

"This is a summer for me to get better and focus on next season. I don't know what their approach is going to be on that. I know that as a team, [the focus is] to get Joe Johnson back."

Johnson has agreed to re-sign with Atlanta and the team is searching for a center. Horford's preference is to play power forward.

"I'm fine with [center] but my natural position is obviously the four," he said.


I wouldn't mind Mr. Horford as a player X

BlueNGold
07-05-2010, 08:02 PM
The Pacers should make a hard run at Horford. He would be perfect next to Hibbert. That would lock down our front court and we would be back in the playoffs immediately.

Ozwalt72
07-05-2010, 08:03 PM
The Pacers should make a hard run at Horford. He would be perfect next to Hibbert. That would lock down our front court and we would be back in the playoffs immediately.

Next to hibbert AND as the C when Hibbert's on the bench. Man that would be cool.

Swish
07-05-2010, 08:04 PM
So he's this year's McBob? Fantastic.

idioteque
07-05-2010, 08:06 PM
Does anyone know who else will have significant cap room in 2011?

I'd think Hortford would be somewhat intrigued about being grouped between Granger and Hibbert. Especially if Stephenson and George show signs of development and Rush eases into his role as a sixth man defensive stopper. It's good to be a sunshiner every once in awhile. :cool:

MillerTime
07-05-2010, 08:07 PM
Is it only me or is Stephenson's game a lot like Tyreke Evans? He has a big body for a PG like Evans and has a good act of getting to the rim.

Deadshot
07-05-2010, 08:10 PM
That's why i simply said I'm excited. Hibbert and Hansbrough both had excellent summer leagues last year. Even Diener had like a 30 point game in summer league.

All that being said. Stephenson still looks nice

And Luther Head has had 2 30pt games in the NBA. Lance looked great today but it will be nice to get more of a sample size against a variety of different opponents/teams/playing styles.

Anthem
07-05-2010, 08:12 PM
MORE talent, MORE depth, and whatever else we can get! we can ALWAYS improve :)
Yeah. We're far from set.

pacers74
07-05-2010, 08:15 PM
Well, going in to next year, other than our two draft picks....

Stephenson/Price
Rush/Dahntay
Granger/George
Hansbrough/McRoberts
Hibbert/Rolle(Though I see him more PF)

That's 9 players with 2 more coming via draft picks. Immediate need would seem to be a starting PF that can play some at center, or Player X as we call him. If there isn't one available, we get a solid backup center capable of playing 20 mpg. Roy will probably never be a high minute guy. Also, by the end of this year we should know what we have in Rush. We may need a starting SG.

In the draft we'd probably look to add another PG if there is value where we pick.

Next Year:
Stephenson/Price/Rookie
FA/Rush/Dahntay
Granger/George
Hansbrough/McRoberts
Hibbert/20mpg center/Rolle

If the right SG came along, and we were able to grab a nice big to compliment Roy....could potentially be a good team. All of this is a HUGE WHAT IF at the point guard position though.

REMEMBER: I'm not saying Stephenson's a solution to ANYTHING. This is Purely what if.


I hope this is right, but it is too early to predict anything. Let's just sit back and have fun watching our guys progress.

pacers74
07-05-2010, 08:17 PM
If and only if we are set at PG, then we need a starting caliber PF next.

Anthem
07-05-2010, 08:31 PM
At this point I don't agree with the people saying he's too slow. He's strong enough and has enough flash to get where he wants WHEN he wants. That's all that necessary.
Yeah, the kid he was playing against was not NBA quality. And I'd have worried if he was just rolling right over him and using the brute strength. But he was going AROUND the guy he's six inches bigger than.

He needs to keep improving his handles, but a 6'5" guy playing the point is no longer quite as ridiculous to me as it was at this time yesterday.

Pacers2012
07-05-2010, 08:34 PM
Does anyone know who else will have significant cap room in 2011?

I'd think Horford would be somewhat intrigued about being grouped between Granger and Hibbert. Especially if Stephenson and George show signs of development and Rush eases into his role as a sixth man defensive stopper. It's good to be a sunshiner every once in awhile. :cool:

Other teams will have cap space as always. Pacers should easily have the most space. If the pacers are smart though they wont spend all their money. They should take a look at OKC. OKC has kept space the past years so that they can almost always make moves thats best for the development of the team. As for Horford and ATL, if the hawks dont resign crawford then they could possibly resign horford. A sign and trade would be more likely. No one will know though until after the CBA is agreed upon.

pacers74
07-05-2010, 08:35 PM
I don't think we need Livingston anymore.

speakout4
07-05-2010, 09:00 PM
Yeah, the kid he was playing against was not NBA quality. And I'd have worried if he was just rolling right over him and using the brute strength. But he was going AROUND the guy he's six inches bigger than.

He needs to keep improving his handles, but a 6'5" guy playing the point is no longer quite as ridiculous to me as it was at this time yesterday.
How about a 6'4" PG called Kidd? No one ever thought he was too big.

Hoop
07-05-2010, 09:13 PM
I know everyone is giddy with excitement at the moment, but please remember. He's a 19 YEAR OLD KID that just finished his freshman year.

He may stink it up the next game, maybe not. Don't every one slit their wrists when he looks bad in at least one of these summer league games and he probably will.

Having said that, I'm ready to sign him.

I may get my darksider badge taken away. :D

Trophy
07-05-2010, 09:22 PM
DeShawn Stevenson?

http://www.hoopsmanifesto.com/images/stories/deshawn%20stevenson%20tattoos.jpg

jeffg-body
07-05-2010, 10:56 PM
I am as excited as the next guy about the kid's performance but we have to be grounded and remember this is summer league and a 19 year old kid. With that being said though, I think he has a pretty good upside and he has a better shot at learning the PG spot than a 24 year old coming out.

Kegboy
07-05-2010, 11:01 PM
...


...


You know, I'm just gonna let you kids have your fun.

:leaving:

cdash
07-05-2010, 11:04 PM
Does anyone know who else will have significant cap room in 2011?

I'd think Hortford would be somewhat intrigued about being grouped between Granger and Hibbert. Especially if Stephenson and George show signs of development and Rush eases into his role as a sixth man defensive stopper. It's good to be a sunshiner every once in awhile. :cool:

I think he will have an extension with Atlanta hammered out long before he hits free agency. Even if he doesn't he will be a restricted free agent, so Atlanta can match any offer made to him. So we would have to grossly overpay to get this guy, in the unlikely event that he ever makes it to free agency.

OakMoses
07-05-2010, 11:07 PM
I think he will have an extension with Atlanta hammered out long before he hits free agency. Even if he doesn't he will be a restricted free agent, so Atlanta can match any offer made to him. So we would have to grossly overpay to get this guy, in the unlikely event that he ever makes it to free agency.

If we want Horford we're going to have to offer him a max deal.

cdash
07-05-2010, 11:09 PM
If we want Horford we're going to have to offer him a max deal.

Even then I'm not sure Atlanta wouldn't match it. After all, this is the team that just gave Joe Johnson a max deal. Regardless, I don't really see Al as an option for us.

Slick Pinkham
07-05-2010, 11:11 PM
Bo Outlaw once had 40+ points and 25+ rebounds ina summer league game.

Just sayin'... it ain't NBA and often it's sloppy thrown-together play that isn't even close to High D1 college level

OakMoses
07-05-2010, 11:17 PM
Even then I'm not sure Atlanta wouldn't match it. After all, this is the team that just gave Joe Johnson a max deal. Regardless, I don't really see Al as an option for us.

Agreed. I'm just saying it's the only chance we've got. I don't know if it's worth it or not.

However, I did hear a rumor that Atlanta's owners might be selling soon, and that part of the reason they gave Johnson the big contract was because they wouldn't be around when he was old and still making huge money. If that's true, they might be a bit reluctant to have 2 max contract guys. Teams seem to think it's better to clear the deck when you're trying to sell.

BlueNGold
07-05-2010, 11:21 PM
Bo Outlaw once had 40+ points and 25+ rebounds ina summer league game.

Just sayin'... it ain't NBA and often it's sloppy thrown-together play that isn't even close to High D1 college level

Not taking anything away from Stephenson's play, but there is very little preparation in summer league. I believe that factor is why summer league is not real. Players don't have their weaknesses exposed sufficiently...and someone attempting to play PG for the first time is not getting a real test...particularly when the opposing PG is under 6 feet.

Pacemaker
07-05-2010, 11:24 PM
Is it only me or is Stephenson's game a lot like Tyreke Evans? He has a big body for a PG like Evans and has a good act of getting to the rim.

I had the same thought ! His game today look similar to me.

OakMoses
07-05-2010, 11:53 PM
TWill ran the point for NJ today. That will be an interesting match-up. He and Lance are about the same size and TWill is a very good defender.

Sollozzo
07-06-2010, 12:07 AM
DeShawn Stevenson?

http://www.hoopsmanifesto.com/images/stories/deshawn%20stevenson%20tattoos.jpg

<object style="height: 344px; width: 425px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LnVCWhIxmMk"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LnVCWhIxmMk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></object>

DrFife
07-06-2010, 12:32 AM
TWill ran the point for NJ today. That will be an interesting match-up. He and Lance are about the same size and TWill is a very good defender.

Somewhere Seth is adjusting his Hanes'. :D

Kstat
07-06-2010, 12:48 AM
I wish I could get as excited over one half of one summer league game....

OakMoses
07-06-2010, 12:57 AM
Wished he had some more assists though, 3 is pretty low, but he didn't make any bad turnover. I guess the low assists could be attributed to the talent he has around him in the summer league.

I watched the game again just to count Stephenson's assists and should-have-been assists.

I counted 5 assists.

I counted 9 should-have-beens: 2 where guys passed up open shots, 1 where McRoberts got fouled, and 6 open shots that Stephenson created that were missed.

Sollozzo
07-06-2010, 01:02 AM
I wish I could get as excited over one half of one summer league game....


When you've watched what we have for the past 6 years it doesn't take much.

rel
07-06-2010, 01:09 AM
just the thought of a Stephenson / George / Granger lineup makes me :drool:
i have no idea how well they'll work together but just thinking about it makes me excited

bphil
07-06-2010, 01:20 AM
Stephenson's performance got me much too excited to make any objective (or even remotely rational) statments about his future prospects, so I think I'd better hold off on any comments related to that subject for now.

What I will say is this... getting to watch him play in that game made the $14.95 I spent on the summer league broadband account seem like chump change!

bphil
07-06-2010, 01:22 AM
Bo Outlaw once had 40+ points and 25+ rebounds ina summer league game.

Just sayin'... it ain't NBA and often it's sloppy thrown-together play that isn't even close to High D1 college level

Ha ha, that's such a buzz kill, but it's a good point.

Kstat
07-06-2010, 01:24 AM
The talent level is much higher, but it's certainly less intense.

You really can't learn who can play in summer league. You can only find out who can't.

These are glorified pick-up games. At most, you get a good entertainment value out of being able to watch your draft picks in action 4 months in advance of the actual season.

cdash
07-06-2010, 01:33 AM
The talent level is much higher, but it's certainly less intense.

You really can't learn who can play in summer league. You can only find out who can't.

These are glorified pick-up games. At most, you get a good entertainment value out of being able to watch your draft picks in action 4 months in advance of the actual season.

Bingo.

If Stephenson continues to have a great summer league, it really doesn't mean much. If George continues to underwhelm, then it's a bit of a red flag.

Will Galen
07-06-2010, 01:37 AM
Revolutionize the Pacers?

Here I was hoping he would be useful in a pinch. Now I'm thinking he might be a rotational player.

15th parallel
07-06-2010, 04:31 AM
Bingo.

If Stephenson continues to have a great summer league, it really doesn't mean much. If George continues to underwhelm, then it's a bit of a red flag.

Having an underwhelming summer league does not mean much in the NBA. Derrick Rose didn't have a good summer league showing before, but look at him now.

Paul has missed a lot of his shots, but has contributed in the game with his efficient free throw shooting. And yes, he's a project, so this poor shooting will happen once in a while. Same goes for Lance and Magnum, who has better showing for that game. But I think we should be happy that those 2nd rounders have shown what they can provide with the Pacers, and that they have the potential to get minutes in the NBA.

DGPR
07-06-2010, 04:57 AM
I'm just happy to hear some good news from our players at the summer league. It's nice to hear this stuff after the crap we've been through the past few years.

Unclebuck
07-06-2010, 07:59 AM
I admit I only read the first post in this thread.

Wait just a minute. Summer league is about 3 levels below preseason basketball, which doesn't matter anyway. Honestly, summer league means absolutely nothing to me. Lance might be the best player ever, but there is no way to determine that from 1 summer league game.

I hope when I go back now and read the rest of this thread, a little more calm and reason will prevail.

the number of players who looked great in the summer league is a long long list -

thewholefnshow31
07-06-2010, 08:33 AM
I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves by saying he will revolutionize the Pacers. Remember this is just the summer league. We are not even in the preseason yet. There have been plenty of guys who struggled in the summer league like Rose. There have been plenty of guys who tore it up in the summer league only to no show the regular season.

Was it nice to see him play well? Of course it is always great to see a rookie do well. If George, Stephenson, and Rolle all can develop we will could have a good chance of really improving, but one summer game does not mean that is going to happen.

With Stephenson the big question will be during the season will he keep his head on straight. Nobody ever really doubted his talent. It was everything in between his ears that they doubted.

McKeyFan
07-06-2010, 08:37 AM
With Stevenson the big question will be during the season will he keep his head on straight. Nobody ever really doubted his talent. It was everything in between his ears that they doubted.

They must have doubted both. Had this game been televised before the draft, I got a feeling Lance would have been drafted at least 20 spots earlier.

Slick Pinkham
07-06-2010, 08:54 AM
Stevenson and Georje may complement Grainger, Dunleevee, Hibburt, Hansburrow, Pryce, and McRoburts purdy well.


:)

docpaul
07-06-2010, 10:37 AM
I wanted to just post a quick note to point out imwhat's hard work on the PD front page.

Very enjoyable to read/watch breakdown of Lance Stephenson's first summer game:

http://www.pacersdigest.net/2010/07/06/the-lance-stephenson-show-21-pts-5-ast-2-to/

Features like this solidify why this site is one of the best NBA fan sites on the web, no question in my mind.

I guarantee this was a lot of work... thanks imawhat!

MyFavMartin
07-06-2010, 10:42 AM
It's Stephenson :)

It's also Orlando's summer league team.

SYDNEY MILLER AUSTRALIA31
07-06-2010, 10:48 AM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16705

vnzla81
07-06-2010, 10:57 AM
Yeah I agree with UB on this one, we should not get that excited and wait but at the same time I think the talent in the summer league is higher than the talent in college, we got to see guys like Wall and Turner destroy college players and we realize that this guys could play in the NBA and be stars in the future.

If the summer league in my opinion is better than college(they play againts NBA players) I think is fair for some people to get excited about one of our guys dominating in one game and showing that he belongs in the NBA

Brad8888
07-06-2010, 11:01 AM
Stevenson and Georje may complement Grainger, Dunleevee, Hibburt, Hansburrow, Pryce, and McRoburts purdy well.


:)

I wonder how Fjord will take this news?

Rupert Stilinski
07-06-2010, 11:04 AM
Yeah I agree with UB on this one, we should not get that excited and wait but at the same time I think the talent in the summer league is higher than the talent in college, we got to see guys like Wall and Turner destroy college players and we realize that this guys could play in the NBA and be stars in the future.

If the summer league in my opinion is better than college(they play againts NBA players) I think is fair for some people to get excited about one of our guys dominating in one game and showing that he belongs in the NBA

If anyone says the talent level is better in college, they are completely wrong. Sure the Summer League is a pretty rag-tag pick-up type of basketball, but the talent level is definitely better. Almost all of these guys were the best player on their team in college.

Naptown_Seth
07-06-2010, 11:05 AM
I admit I only read the first post in this thread.

Wait just a minute. Summer league is about 3 levels below preseason basketball, which doesn't matter anyway. Honestly, summer league means absolutely nothing to me. Lance might be the best player ever, but there is no way to determine that from 1 summer league game.

I hope when I go back now and read the rest of this thread, a little more calm and reason will prevail.

the number of players who looked great in the summer league is a long long list -
Let me agree and disagree at the same time.

Summer league has a totally DIFFERENT point. Box scores from summer typically mean nothing, and in many cases you have to translate for the STYLE OF PLAY that summer ball is.

I'm not just saying this because I like his hops, but S Robinson is a guy that is hurt in summer ball. He's a wing that compliments others and gets setup for back door alley-oops and smart plays along those lines where his hops make a splash. In fact he had a spectacular offensive board dunk in the game yesterday.

But since summer is all disjointed, loose ball it means that if you are a pure shooter or a ball handler, you're in your element. Also if you are a "just get rebounds and put back dunks" big like Favors you are also in a good place. OTOH if you are waiting for that effort to dig out the low post, or a zip pass when you make a great backdoor cut, or a smooth PnR return pass, you have to cross your fingers that the guy on the court with you is a quality pro or team player type. Your showing is in the hands of others.

Favors won't get burned by good team play in the post, and a guy like Lance gets to run free in the broken court. Fundamentals guys get killed in summer ball unless they are ball handlers. Playground skills shine in these ugly games.


I want to love the new Pacers, but there is no way what Lance did yesterday works out that well in the regular season. Often he made exciting moves just seconds after almost losing the ball. He constantly puts flair on everything which makes mundane or even poor plays look exciting.

His defense was awful, he can't stop other PGs. His ball handling is solid for a SG, but mediocre for a PG. Quick PGs will take his dribble from him many times per game.

If you want to say "but his size..." then look no further than the Nets and TWill (or Turner and Holiday for PHI). That game was a drastic contrast in "play initiator" from bigger guards. If you didn't watch the PHI/NJ game then you just don't have any idea how Lance compares.

Those guys don't lean on cradle/palming show moves, they have ultra quick stutter dribbles and the ability to change direction against very good defense. Turner and TWill saw plenty of each other in fact. They both bring the same size advantage, rebound very well and defend very well.

Lance did one really nice thing yesterday - he made some nice, crisp passes. But so did TWill, and he did it far more often and with less difficulty protecting his dribble. Turner and Holiday weren't quite the passers, but they showed far more of a scoring game.


Bottom line is that Lance played a somewhat immature game that benefited greatly from the situation. Lance has physical talent, but we knew that.

Ultimately though George looks more physically talented and smooth (but horribly, horribly raw). He seems far more likely to stick in the NBA IMO.

Lance needs to learn how to play the normal, non-flash game. He's hamburger with flashy presentation that highlights his talent and hides his flawed style and decisions. Basically to me he still looks like the guy that has been squandering tons of elite player talent with a playground mentality. The parallel to James White remains noticeable.




Look fanboys, I'm not calling him a washout. I'm calling him what he is - a talented guy who's game is all about needless show and runs low on quality teamwork. It's not just that this was versus summer guys because I think you can show something in summer, it was the "how" of the plays. Some guys yesterday stood starkly out as being well above the competition (again Holiday, TWill, Turner), some showed good talent (Favors, McRoberts), and a lot of guys gave you reason to want to keep checking on them.

Lance, George and Rolle all put in "okay, well that's enough to keep looking at you" games, but none put in "you made the team" style of games. Frankly given some of the s*** play you get in summer ball that puts them ahead of the curve. No one else for the Pacers past that big 4 is worth looking at one bit (can't believe people used to push for Hendrix).

imawhat
07-06-2010, 11:36 AM
I want to love the new Pacers, but there is no way what Lance did yesterday works out that well in the regular season. Often he made exciting moves just seconds after almost losing the ball.

You mean the one time it happened?


If you want to say "but his size..." then look no further than the Nets and TWill (or Turner and Holiday for PHI). That game was a drastic contrast in "play initiator" from bigger guards. If you didn't watch the PHI/NJ game then you just don't have any idea how Lance compares.

Apparently those that watched the game don't know how he compares either.


Lance did one really nice thing yesterday - he made some nice, crisp passes. But so did TWill, and he did it far more often and with less difficulty protecting his dribble. Turner and Holiday weren't quite the passers, but they showed far more of a scoring game.

Yes, one nice thing. His scoring, tempo, and setups were meh. If he'd only shown half of Evan Turner's 2-5 FG scoring game, or Holiday's jump shot game. Btw, TWill is much quicker than Lance, which is why he has less difficulty protecting his dribble.



Look fanboys, I'm not calling him a washout. I'm calling him what he is - a talented guy who's game is all about needless show and runs low on quality teamwork. It's not just that this was versus summer guys because I think you can show something in summer, it was the "how" of the plays. Some guys yesterday stood starkly out as being well above the competition (again Holiday, TWill, Turner), some showed good talent (Favors, McRoberts), and a lot of guys gave you reason to want to keep checking on them.

Lance, George and Rolle all put in "okay, well that's enough to keep looking at you" games, but none put in "you made the team" style of games. Frankly given some of the s*** play you get in summer ball that puts them ahead of the curve. No one else for the Pacers past that big 4 is worth looking at one bit (can't believe people used to push for Hendrix).

A guy like Stanley Robinson getting a free pass, Evan Turner showing "much more of a scoring game" that was well above the competition (in a game where he had a ballhandling turnover, unlike Stephenson), the exaggerated notion that Lance had all kinds of trouble losing the dribble, McRoberts showing "good talent" in a game where he did nothing, and Lance showing you an "okay, we'll keep looking at you" game say it all.

It looks a lot more like inflexible, preconceived notions than it does what actually happened.

OakMoses
07-06-2010, 11:51 AM
It's Lance v. TWill tonight. I think this will show us much more about Lance. Randle was small and very poor defensively. He was just totally overmatched physically. If Lance plays a similar game tonight against TWill - a good defender who's his equal (or better) physically - then we'll really have something to get excited about.

Kid Minneapolis
07-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Thanks for reporting this, sounds nice. Surprising to me, to be honest. However... at this point I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic. We've had summer league superstars before (Bender) and didn't quite work out like we thought.

imawhat
07-06-2010, 11:55 AM
I somehow get the impression that it will take more than two games for some people to change their opinion. Of course, if he has a decent to mediocre game, it's "I told you so".

Naptown_Seth
07-06-2010, 12:04 PM
...


...


You know, I'm just gonna let you kids have your fun.

:leaving:
You have a lot more willpower than me obviously. :o


Not only James White, but I also thought of Tinsley and his "did you see that" passing and handles. In the end he was a very frustrating player and that frustration was actually made worse by those flashes of brilliance.

I don't need a guy to fake a wraparound on a routine layup after almost losing his dribble on a basic trap. I need a guy to punish that trap as soon as it comes and never get to the flash in the first place.

The best plays Lance made were the 2 passes to Rolle, one was a nice PnSlip as I recall and a good bounce pass at that.


Let me add this - I don't dislike flash. I'm nowhere near being a "I believe in good fundamentals" guy. I loathe college ball and the slow, deliberate style most of those guys have. You must have the ability to make sharp, flashy moves to hang in the league and I often blast prospects because of this (its why I didn't like Lawson).

My issue is pointless flash, and more so when it comes paired with a lot of slop too.

SMosley21
07-06-2010, 12:11 PM
Does this mean that we could have another point guard that hates the Knicks...?

We can only hope.

Naptown_Seth
07-06-2010, 12:12 PM
I somehow get the impression that it will take more than two games for some people to change their opinion. Of course, if he has a decent to mediocre game, it's "I told you so".
It's summer competition. Bad games mean bad things, good games mean almost nothing.

What you can do and the basics of your style is all that can be read. Are you quicker, stronger, a better shooter, etc than the rest of the guys? No - then go home. Yes - go ahead and come to camp.

Points in summer is one of the worst stats because it's often the equivalent of scrub time scoring. Not all scoring. If Lance is just going cross over, rise up, nothing but net 3s over and over as team's fetch new defenders on him to cool him off, then I'm listening.


I will say that while Lance didn't blow me away here, it was better than the worry George confirmed for me. His game is incredibly raw. At one point he gave up a backdoor dunk by not keeping an eye on his man, then took the ball out of bounds and promptly threw it right back to Orlando.

At least Lance didn't do that.


To put Lance in perspective I thought that Rolle was maybe the 2nd best Pacer out there after McRoberts, maybe 3rd after Lance. I liked what he did. I also like the game of Darrell Arthur. Rolle reminded me a lot of Arthur yesterday.

That puts him at 9-10th on an average bench at best. That's the reality here. Great means good, good means you make the team, decent means you are learning a foreign language.




Imawhat -
Don't worry, the games are all taped and once the week is over I'll put out the video that I think shows my thoughts. Robinson got a "free pass" because he doesn't get to touch the ball. Why? Because he's not a playground ball hog chucker. I don't fault guys for not playing the crap ball that a lot of these guys play because it's that crap ball that keeps them off the team. He rebounded and defended well. He gave George difficulty with his defense.



Yes, I'm just a big hater d-bag. Funny how no one thinks this when I agree on their guy, but if I disagree it's my agenda.

McRoberts did nothing, yet he was the scoring leader at halftime. Multiple times he showed strong comfort in bringing the ball up and pressuring ORL, giving the Pacers a clear advantage in defeating any type of PG pressure or trapping. I'm no fan of JOB having him shoot 3s, but he did show that too.

Josh also got switched onto PG, SG and SF many times during the game and was able to stay in front of all of them.

That stuff wins games. The game is all about outrebounding your position, being able to relieve pressure from mismatches (like switching on PnR or having to bring the ball up court if you aren't a PG), setting clean screens (ahem, attention Orton) and other basics. Having a guy get his own shot is ONE of those things, but it's not the only thing and it's not nearly enough on it's own.

The Pacers LOST the 2nd half, the part where Lance was scoring plenty of points and Josh was tossed out of the game.

Mr. Sobchak
07-06-2010, 12:13 PM
A guy like Stanley Robinson getting a free pass, Evan Turner showing "much more of a scoring game" that was well above the competition (in a game where he had a ballhandling turnover, unlike Stephenson), the exaggerated notion that Lance had all kinds of trouble losing the dribble, McRoberts showing "good talent" in a game where he did nothing, and Lance showing you an "okay, we'll keep looking at you" game say it all.

It looks a lot more like inflexible, preconceived notions than it does what actually happened.

Seth's just mad because a guy he wanted us to take in the 14-18 range got picked with the second to last pick in the entire draft...He has to try and save face somehow. ;)

docpaul
07-06-2010, 12:15 PM
It looks a lot more like inflexible, preconceived notions than it does what actually happened.

Along with a small dollop of: "see, I was right all along!"

OakMoses
07-06-2010, 12:15 PM
It is worth noting that Orlando has probably the worst roster of any team in this summer league. They've got one guy with a roster spot next season (Orton) and two borderline guys (Ewing Jr. and Robinson).

Orton did have one nice play yesterday. The one where Rolle drove on him from the elbow and Orton stayed with him and blocked his shot at the rim without fouling. Pretty impressive for a guy who's known as a big physical guy to stay with a slender quick guy with excellent height and athletic ability and end up winning.

bphil
07-06-2010, 12:16 PM
All I have to say is, it's a hell of a lot better to be awesome in summer league than to suck. You can say the summer league is meaningless all you want, but if Stephenson had played terrible, everyone who is saying his performance means nothing right now would almost certainly be slamming Bird for drafting him...

OakMoses
07-06-2010, 12:17 PM
It's summer competition. Bad games mean bad things, good games mean almost nothing.

What you can do and the basics of your style is all that can be read. Are you quicker, stronger, a better shooter, etc than the rest of the guys? No - then go home. Yes - go ahead and come to camp.

Points in summer is one of the worst stats because it's often the equivalent of scrub time scoring. Not all scoring. If Lance is just going cross over, rise up, nothing but net 3s over and over as team's fetch new defenders on him to cool him off, then I'm listening.


I will say that while Lance didn't blow me away here, it was better than the worry George confirmed for me. His game is incredibly raw. At one point he gave up a backdoor dunk by not keeping an eye on his man, then took the ball out of bounds and promptly threw it right back to Orlando.

At least Lance didn't do that.


To put Lance in perspective I thought that Rolle was maybe the 2nd best Pacer out there after McRoberts, maybe 3rd after Lance. I liked what he did. I also like the game of Darrell Arthur. Rolle reminded me a lot of Arthur yesterday.

That puts him at 9-10th on an average bench at best. That's the reality here. Great means good, good means you make the team, decent means you are learning a foreign language.

Not an argument, just a question for Seth:

What if Lance does it again with TWill guarding him for 25 minutes?

Mr. Sobchak
07-06-2010, 12:20 PM
Not an argument, just a question for Seth:

What if Lance does it again with TWill guarding him for 25 minutes?

He'll have some other excuse as to why it was an an anomaly.

OakMoses
07-06-2010, 12:29 PM
He'll have some other excuse as to why it was an an anomaly.

I have no desire to antagonize Seth, and I'm really not trying to start an argument. I respect his opinion more than about 95% of the people who post around here.

I just think that the step up from Randle to TWill is a huge one. If Stephenson is still successful, then maybe it's time to let just a little bit of excitement live on.

imawhat
07-06-2010, 12:36 PM
My issue is pointless flash, and more so when it comes paired with a lot of slop too.

Said by a fanboy of Brandon Jennings.

Lance needs the "flash", Seth. He's not a fast point guard. He has to use in & outs and around the back moves to penetrate. It's no different than what Marquis was doing. His dribble was a little high yesterday, but let's not act like it was sloppy. He had his head up the entire game; he's obviously confident in his ballhandling.

Which, btw, is unlike Brandon Jennings, who was the fastest point guard in the league last year. You've set a double standard for pointless flash, as Brandon was the guy who didn't need it.

MLB007
07-06-2010, 12:38 PM
They must have doubted both. Had this game been televised before the draft, I got a feeling Lance would have been drafted at least 20 spots earlier.

No, NOBODY doubted that he had the talent.
Doesn't the fact that the KNICKS (he's a NY kid) had TWO second round picks in a row and skipped him with both mean anything to you? ;)

Mr. Sobchak
07-06-2010, 12:40 PM
I have no desire to antagonize Seth, and I'm really not trying to start an argument. I respect his opinion more than about 95% of the people who post around here.

I just think that the step up from Randle to TWill is a huge one. If Stephenson is still successful, then maybe it's time to let just a little bit of excitement live on.

I suppose I'm not trying to antagonize him either but the constant back patting gets really old...I'm of the opinion that Seth is hesitant to give Lance props because he wasn't really on his radar before the draft...Neither was George. I get tampering expectations because it's summer league, but how can you possibly defend someone like Stanley Robinson who did practically nothing except that pretty putback slam and then turn around and criticize Lance for sloppy ball handling and other practically non-existent mistakes when he totally dominated the game?

imawhat
07-06-2010, 12:42 PM
Points in summer is one of the worst stats because it's often the equivalent of scrub time scoring. Not all scoring. If Lance is just going cross over, rise up, nothing but net 3s over and over as team's fetch new defenders on him to cool him off, then I'm listening.

Another double standard, because apparently Holiday and Turner showed off much more impressive scoring. Apparently that's much more impressive scrub time scoring now.

So you're listening when he's swishing threes, but not when he's breaking down double and triple teams, using his body to create space, using his off shoulder to shield against blocks, hitting step back jumpers, and using behind the back dribbles to create space as a way of using a defender's inertia against him?

Got it.

Day-V
07-06-2010, 12:42 PM
Doesn't the fact that the KNICKS (he's a NY kid) had TWO second round picks in a row and skipped him with both mean anything to you? ;)

All it means to me is Donnie Walsh is being Donnie Walsh.....

OakMoses
07-06-2010, 12:44 PM
His dribble was a little high yesterday, but let's not act like it was sloppy. He had his head up the entire game; he's obviously confident in his ballhandling.


It seemed like Lance's ball-handling got better as the game went on. Most of the gaffe's that I remember were in the first half.

Also, let's give him a little credit for unselfishness. For those of you who watched the game, do you have any doubt that he could've scored 40+ if he'd wanted to?

indyaway
07-06-2010, 12:45 PM
Doesn't the fact that the KNICKS (he's a NY kid) had TWO second round picks in a row and skipped him with both mean anything to you? ;)

That's only because they didn't want him hurting LeBron's feelings by dunking on him in practice. I'm only 1/2 kidding when I say this.

CableKC
07-06-2010, 01:16 PM
I don't know whose on what side....but I will say that I agree with those that suggest that we should wait and see what happens with him at the PG spot against more talent. I'm glad that he showed that he has the potential to be a decent PG and I hope that he really does progress accordingly....but I want to see how he does against more talented PGs and pressure defenses that aren't made up of D-League and 3-4 months removed from College talent.

For me, I loved that he did great in his 1st showing in the NBA.....but before we annoint him the savior for the future for the PG spot.....let's see how he does against the type of talent and defenses that he will likely face in the NBA. I'm not saying that he's not capable of being one...but let's see what happens.

Roaming Gnome
07-06-2010, 01:23 PM
...


...


You know, I'm just gonna let you kids have your fun.

:leaving:
You have a lot more willpower than me obviously. :o


Not only James White, but I also thought of Tinsley and his "did you see that" passing and handles. In the end he was a very frustrating player and that frustration was actually made worse by those flashes of brilliance.

I don't need a guy to fake a wraparound on a routine layup after almost losing his dribble on a basic trap. I need a guy to punish that trap as soon as it comes and never get to the flash in the first place.

The best plays Lance made were the 2 passes to Rolle, one was a nice PnSlip as I recall and a good bounce pass at that.


Let me add this - I don't dislike flash. I'm nowhere near being a "I believe in good fundamentals" guy. I loathe college ball and the slow, deliberate style most of those guys have. You must have the ability to make sharp, flashy moves to hang in the league and I often blast prospects because of this (its why I didn't like Lawson).

My issue is pointless flash, and more so when it comes paired with a lot of slop too.
http://attrice.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/buzzkill.jpg

Stop stomping out the little hope and joy there is to watching these summer league games!!!

Really?
07-06-2010, 01:36 PM
Lance's performance was good, but it is his first game, it is also in summer league, it was also against a 5'10" pg.

I have said that the Pacers would put him at the 1 and hope for a Tyreke Evans type of player and hopefully that is what he turns out to be. But you can not take a whole lot from this game besides he plays hard. Has a good mid range game, and is trying to work on not being selfish with the ball.

He will definitly have to learn how to run the half court offense if he wants to play the point during the season, work on his court vision and dribbling.

I think the game today will tell us more about the player that he will be. Going against a player with quickness, d, and NBA experience in Terrance Williams.

Wish him the best....hopefully he shows up and doesn't get frustrated if things don't go how he expects them...

flox
07-06-2010, 03:23 PM
I'm not just saying this because I like his hops, but S Robinson is a guy that is hurt in summer ball. He's a wing that compliments others and gets setup for back door alley-oops and smart plays along those lines where his hops make a splash. In fact he had a spectacular offensive board dunk in the game yesterday.

I agree and disagree with this. I like Robinson as a player and wanted him, but Summer League is where he should shine, especially when you consider that he should be more athletic than most of the players and can operate the triple threat. He is also at his best with the summer league fast pace. Yeah he probably would like some plays run for him with back doors and other smart set up plays but he should be a player that is more that that, doing more things then just being that kind of player.




If you want to say "but his size..." then look no further than the Nets and TWill (or Turner and Holiday for PHI). That game was a drastic contrast in "play initiator" from bigger guards. If you didn't watch the PHI/NJ game then you just don't have any idea how Lance compares.

Those guys don't lean on cradle/palming show moves, they have ultra quick stutter dribbles and the ability to change direction against very good defense. Turner and TWill saw plenty of each other in fact. They both bring the same size advantage, rebound very well and defend very well.

We didn't have a chance to get TWill or Turner. We could have had Holiday, which is unfortunate.

Lance doesn't have the tools that Jrue has. I doubt he can pull off those moves as well because he is slower and plays a more tricky, flashy style which works for him. I don't see why we would have to ask him to learn stutters or direction changes when his crosses and "street" style work for him and allow him to be a different kind of tricky player.

Justin Tyme
07-06-2010, 03:34 PM
What time is the game today?

BPump33
07-06-2010, 03:35 PM
What time is the game today?

7.

Really?
07-06-2010, 04:49 PM
I will say that while Lance didn't blow me away here, it was better than the worry George confirmed for me. His game is incredibly raw. At one point he gave up a backdoor dunk by not keeping an eye on his man, then took the ball out of bounds and promptly threw it right back to Orlando.



Why would George's play worry you, I personally thought that he was drafted on potential and that he would need time to develop into a starter. All of the things that you pointed out are things that can be taught.

I think this should be optimistic, only thing close to worry about his shot, should have knocked down his open three's... If he doesn't do that today then I can see a little bit of worry... but again look how Steph Curry did...

What I liked from George alot was when he got mad and decided to try to take over. Then he showed his dribbling skills, and driving ability.

Like I said before for me there seems to be more room for optimism than worry with George's game...