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View Full Version : Where does Fred Jones fit in now?



Johnny
08-05-2004, 10:50 PM
After the signing of SJax and Gill, where does that leave Fred? I know there was speculation that he might play some point after we signed SJax. Now, we are three deep at point, and he is behind SJax at the 2. I do not see where he is going to get any playing time unless Reggie really decides to take very limited minutes this year.

I am pretty high on the guy because the Pacers really have not had an athletic swing guard in a long time. It is almost like we traded away our forward logjam to pick up a guard logjam:(

Hicks
08-05-2004, 10:51 PM
He either gets traded, gets room via another trade, or sits tight and waits patiently for Reggie to call it a career. I'm hoping it's the last one.

Snickers
08-05-2004, 10:55 PM
Yep, next year he'll be the first guard off the bench.

MSA2CF
08-05-2004, 10:55 PM
I'm not so sure Gill will be getting more minutes than Fred.

Snickers
08-05-2004, 10:55 PM
Sheesh, that old Tmac sig keeps showing up.... that makes me sad. :cry:

Anthem
08-05-2004, 11:41 PM
I'd like to see Fred Jones as our backup SG, with Jackson as the starter.

Sollozzo
08-05-2004, 11:49 PM
Anthem, I wouldn't mind seing Jones as the backup to Jackson either.....but we know how loyal this franchise is to Reggie Miller, and making him 3rd string is out of the question for them.

Johnny
08-06-2004, 12:46 AM
Absolutely. I really cannot imagine the announcement of the starting lineups without, "aaaand number 31, RRRRRRReggie Miller!!!!!":rockon2:

Anthem
08-06-2004, 01:21 AM
Absolutely. I really cannot imagine the announcement of the starting lineups without, "aaaand number 31, RRRRRRReggie Miller!!!!!":rockon2:

I'm ready right now. I love Reggie to death, and I've watched every one of his major playoff performances, but this team has got to cut the cord sometime. And of our three shooting guards, it's hard to make the case that Reggie should be in the top two.

Lord Helmet
08-06-2004, 01:26 AM
Absolutely. I really cannot imagine the announcement of the starting lineups without, "aaaand number 31, RRRRRRReggie Miller!!!!!":rockon2:
:cool: I agree

Sollozzo
08-06-2004, 01:48 AM
I think we should have cut the cord on Reggie Miller last summer.

ABADays
08-06-2004, 09:13 AM
:rolleyes:

sixthman
08-06-2004, 10:21 AM
:bored:

Fool
08-06-2004, 11:25 AM
At this point do you classify Reggie as just hanging on for a ring? Do you think he would play Pollard type minutes rather than retire when the team is so close to a championship? I realize he has been cool with taking less minutes but he's still been a starter. Do you think he would be a seat warmer if it meant he was on the team when the team won a championship?

Roy Munson
08-06-2004, 11:53 AM
There are many scenarios that could lead to more minutes for Freddy.

1) Bender gets an injury (as unlikely as that seems) so SJax has to play more minutes at 3.

2) Reggie gets an injury so Freddy and SJax play most or all of the 2 minutes.

3) Artest gets an injury or otherwise has to sit some games out, so SJax becomes the starting 3.

4) The staff decides that Freddy is more effective as backup 1 than the other guys we have there.

5) Any of the backup 1's get an injury, leaving room there for minutes for Freddy.

Depth is good. Any of the above find situations could come up. It's good planning to be prepared for them. The Pacers have improved their depth and flexibility.

MSA2CF
08-06-2004, 12:05 PM
Reggie will surprise & disprove a lot of people this season.

Hicks
08-06-2004, 12:35 PM
Last season was the year for Reggie to surprise & disprove. He had his chance. He was healthy, rested, and didn't do much in the playoffs. I'm ready to cut the cord; I just wish he was. But if he lets Jackson start in his place, I'm OK with him being a bench guy.

ChicagoJ
08-06-2004, 12:45 PM
Reggie will surprise & disprove a lot of people this season.

You could be right. My standards for Grandpa Reggie are so low that I'll be surprised if he plays in sixty games and is part of the regular rotation in the playoffs.






:devil:

MSA2CF
08-06-2004, 12:48 PM
:shakehead:

beast23
08-06-2004, 02:09 PM
First off... Freddie faces a lengthy recovery period. That puts him months behind the team since he will not initially be in playing shape and will not have benefitted from the summer league and training camp.

I don't see any role at all for Freddie until at least January.

And even then he's probably glued to the bench for a month or so.

It's going to be a long season for Freddie.

ChicagoJ
08-06-2004, 02:35 PM
I know I keep forgetting that when people talk about Fred.

Sollozzo
08-06-2004, 03:03 PM
Reggie isn't suprising anyone this season. If you really think Reggie is going to make an improvement over last season, you are in for a major disappointment.

We all gave Reggie the benefit of the doubt, that he had an off year in 02-03 because of his ankles. He was rested, and healthy for 03-04, but had a worse season than 02-03 and didnt do much in the playoffs.

Face it, Reggie is 39, is entering his 18th season in the league, he is finished, and probably wont average in double figures this year. Let's move on and cut the cord.

Its time for Jackson to start.

beast23
08-06-2004, 03:22 PM
I can't really figure out those that talk about Reggie significantly slipping.

His FG% is in line with what it has been for the last 6 years. And his 3FG% is in line with his career percentage.

So, basically all the moaners and groaners are *****ing about the fact that Reggie is not shooting as much, therefore not scoring as much.

Yet the focal point of the offense is now through Jermaine and Ron, with Reggie being the #3 option at best.

The only problem that I have with Reggie is the that I perceive that he is passing up open shots that he should be taking. Now that bothers me a lot.

But I am not bothered by the fact that he is scoring less. Anyone who says that is anything other than intentional needs to actually watch a game or two.

Now if you were to argue that, considering that Reggie is 39, he should be playing fewer minutes so that he will remain fresher as the season progresses, then I'd totally agree with that.

But to say he's finished and unable to perform and should therefore be relegated to 3rd guard or even cut loose? I'm sorry, that's beyond absurd. That's stupidity.

Roy Munson
08-06-2004, 03:33 PM
But to say he's finished and unable to perform and should therefore be relegated to 3rd guard or even cut loose? I'm sorry, that's beyond absurd. That's stupidity.


He's so slow now that he CAN'T get shots off like he used to. That's why he passes up shots. He's too slow to get open and too slow to get shots off.

And on defense...well, he's too slow to guard anyone effectively.

If he does start this year, it should only be as a symbolic gesture to honor his long career and contribution to the franchise. If they want to start him, then fine, let him start, play a few minutes, then go sit down and watch the game. The other 2 guys are better players now.

That is truth, not stupidity.

beast23
08-06-2004, 03:51 PM
I'm certain you are correct about Jackson. He is certainly a better all-around player.

Considering Freddie's injury, I'm not certain that he will become a better all-around player than Reggie this season.

Freddie is certainly a much better defender than Reggie. I would probably rate Reggie as "adequate" and Freddie as one of the better defensive SGs in the league.

You don't see Reggie running guys off screens like you used to. I will agree with that. But I do not believe that it has anything to do with Reggie's speed or lack thereof. I believe that particular play is a thing of the past. We are looking to get the ball into the post as our first scoring option, not look for Reggie. So we don't want Reggie going through the post, rubbing his man off where he will be in perfect position to double down on JO.... that wouldn't make sense.

I personally think you are mistaken. Reggie had PLENTY of open looks during the season and in the playoffs. He just passed them up.

If the reason for doing so is simply that Reggie wouldn't shoot and is deferring, then shame on him. And, I go along with inserting Jackson as the starter.

If the reason for passing up open shots is because of Carlisle's offensive design, then I'd say it's really not going to make a difference offensively who starts out at the guard position.

IMO, it really doesn't matter who you want to start at SG. They will NOT take more than 1-2 shots over the first 8 minutes of the game anyway. You could start a 3-foot midget if you wanted to, and you would get just as many shots. During most of Q1, all our offense does is establish the game through JO and Ron anyway.

Roy Munson
08-06-2004, 04:10 PM
Considering Freddie's injury, I'm not certain that he will become a better all-around player than Reggie this season.



That's a good point.

But I think people forget that Freddy was hurt pretty badly last summer also (his back). That is why he played so poorly in pre-season. His shooting was horrible until Christmas and I believe that it was a factor.

Hopefully he will be fully recovered from his shoulder injury/surgery by Christmas this year. If he is, then by the home-stretch of the season and playoffs, I expect that Reggie will be the Pacers' 3rd best SG.

Roy Munson
08-06-2004, 04:34 PM
The idea that Fred fits this team better right now is foolish. I would assume that the people on this board have a small understanding of SPACING!!!!!

...

and frankly I don't like Ron or Freddie taking 3's.

Well, pardon me since I'm obviously not as smart as you, but If I read numbers correctly, I believe Freddy shot a very high percentage from the 3-point line from January till the end of the playoffs. In fact, it was either the highest, or second-highest percentage of anyone on the team, during that period.

beast23
08-06-2004, 04:59 PM
Agreed. I really liked what Freddie was providing the last half of the season.... at both ends of the floor.

With Freddie, it's a matter of getting him healthy and back into playing shape. And then getting the opportunity to play again.

I've really never said I don't have faith in Freddie. In fact I have much more faith in Freddie than I do Bender. It's just that we know how Rick operates... a struggle to get from IR to dressed on the bench, then a 2nd struggle to actually get minutes in a game.

With the report of a possible "lengthy" rehab, I just think it might be awkward trying to work him back into the lineup. And if this team is in high gear and really clicking in December - January, then I think it might be very difficult to find the minutes for Freddie because Rick tends not to screw with it if it's not broken.

Through no fault of his own, I just think Freddie has a tough road to hoe this year. Like previous seasons for Bender, I think Freddie might find himself in a holding pattern until the following season and supposedly Reggie's retirement.

Anthem
08-06-2004, 05:42 PM
Well, pardon me since I'm obviously not as smart as you, but If I read numbers correctly, I believe Freddy shot a very high percentage from the 3-point line from January till the end of the playoffs. In fact, it was either the highest, or second-highest percentage of anyone on the team, during that period.

Plus, he's not afraid to take them. Unlike...

MSA2CF
08-06-2004, 05:47 PM
I can't really figure out those that talk about Reggie significantly slipping.

His FG% is in line with what it has been for the last 6 years. And his 3FG% is in line with his career percentage.

So, basically all the moaners and groaners are *****ing about the fact that Reggie is not shooting as much, therefore not scoring as much.

Yet the focal point of the offense is now through Jermaine and Ron, with Reggie being the #3 option at best.

The only problem that I have with Reggie is the that I perceive that he is passing up open shots that he should be taking. Now that bothers me a lot.

But I am not bothered by the fact that he is scoring less. Anyone who says that is anything other than intentional needs to actually watch a game or two.

Now if you were to argue that, considering that Reggie is 39, he should be playing fewer minutes so that he will remain fresher as the season progresses, then I'd totally agree with that.

But to say he's finished and unable to perform and should therefore be relegated to 3rd guard or even cut loose? I'm sorry, that's beyond absurd. That's stupidity.


I could not have said it better myself. :amen:

Pig Nash
08-06-2004, 06:04 PM
I can't really figure out those that talk about Reggie significantly slipping.

His FG% is in line with what it has been for the last 6 years. And his 3FG% is in line with his career percentage.

So, basically all the moaners and groaners are *****ing about the fact that Reggie is not shooting as much, therefore not scoring as much.

Yet the focal point of the offense is now through Jermaine and Ron, with Reggie being the #3 option at best.

The only problem that I have with Reggie is the that I perceive that he is passing up open shots that he should be taking. Now that bothers me a lot.

But I am not bothered by the fact that he is scoring less. Anyone who says that is anything other than intentional needs to actually watch a game or two.

Now if you were to argue that, considering that Reggie is 39, he should be playing fewer minutes so that he will remain fresher as the season progresses, then I'd totally agree with that.

But to say he's finished and unable to perform and should therefore be relegated to 3rd guard or even cut loose? I'm sorry, that's beyond absurd. That's stupidity.


I could not have said it better myself. :amen:


:amen:

Roaming Gnome
08-06-2004, 07:54 PM
I can't really figure out those that talk about Reggie significantly slipping.

His FG% is in line with what it has been for the last 6 years. And his 3FG% is in line with his career percentage.

So, basically all the moaners and groaners are *****ing about the fact that Reggie is not shooting as much, therefore not scoring as much.

Yet the focal point of the offense is now through Jermaine and Ron, with Reggie being the #3 option at best.

The only problem that I have with Reggie is the that I perceive that he is passing up open shots that he should be taking. Now that bothers me a lot.

But I am not bothered by the fact that he is scoring less. Anyone who says that is anything other than intentional needs to actually watch a game or two.

Now if you were to argue that, considering that Reggie is 39, he should be playing fewer minutes so that he will remain fresher as the season progresses, then I'd totally agree with that.

But to say he's finished and unable to perform and should therefore be relegated to 3rd guard or even cut loose? I'm sorry, that's beyond absurd. That's stupidity.


I could not have said it better myself. :amen:


:amen:

:amen: Word! :applaud:

Cactus Jax
08-06-2004, 08:02 PM
I'd love to agree, but where's the room for the next couple seasons? Fred's growth will be stopped quite a bit with the lack of playing time until Reggie retires, so it might be better to trade him while there's some potential there.

BTW: How the hell do you include signatures, I'm trying to get mine up there but its now working.

clownskull
08-06-2004, 09:25 PM
I'd love to agree, but where's the room for the next couple seasons? Fred's growth will be stopped quite a bit with the lack of playing time until Reggie retires, so it might be better to trade him while there's some potential


reggie is gone after this year. this is not like the forward situation we were in. trading fred now would be a bad movie in my oppinion. hell, i don't think he's reached his peak as a player yet. his value is likely to go up, not down. if we were to trade him (i hope we don't) we would probably regret it for several reasons

beast23
08-06-2004, 11:11 PM
Kingfrog, I think most would agree. I wouldn't choose to trade FJones. I believe he has shown significantly more potential, certainly more consistency, than Bender. And I would keep him above Bender.

I would only choose to trade him if it helped bring back someone like Dampier to help in the front court.