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View Full Version : Lance Stephenson being our Point Guard of the future?



odeez
07-01-2010, 04:30 PM
Obviously it's early in the process for us to know anything for sure. But I wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were on Lance possibly being our point guard of the future? How many of you think he has the tools to do it? It has been mentioned before by some here, so I wanted to revisit the idea. When I watched the latest episode of Pacers Crate with Magnum and Lance, he mentions he thinks that the point is the best position for him.

The problem for me is there is nothing to really go on, in terms of him playing the position, but it looks like the Pacers will try him out there in Summer League, which gives us all something to really check out. I would love it he did work out to be a PG, he is big and can pass the ball and get to the rim, but will he be a pass first point guard or a score first point guard? Anyone out there that watched him in Cincy with thoughts on him playing PG?

I know we are still going to try to find someone on the market, but none of the guys mentioned really get me excited. Anyways, let's talk about it: Lance at the point!

RonArtest
07-01-2010, 04:40 PM
Are you sure O'Brien won't stick Dunleavy or Murphy at the point? I mean Lance can't hit the three at a high enough clip and shooting three's is what it's all about right?

Sookie
07-01-2010, 04:50 PM
Point guard of the future. I doubt it. He's not actually a point guard. However, if need be he could play point. I'm opposed to putting players out of position though.

He's a decent passer, and a good ball handler. Not that great of a shooter. Possible 0 guard.

What is it with this organization and making players play out of position. Just a heads up, Dahntay Jones is going to be much more effective at the SG position than the PF one. Dun is going to be much more effective at the SG or SF spot than the PF spot. Watson and Price are point guards not shooting guards ect...

Having him run the PG spot in Summer league definitely makes sense. Paul George is an SG/SF and we don't really have a PG in camp. Plus you get to see if he can handle it until AJ gets back. Gives us more options if he's capable. Gut feeling is he'll make a much better SG than PG though..

odeez
07-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Point guard of the future.

I doubt it. He's not actually a point guard. However, if need be he could be a point guard.

He's a decent passer, and a good ball handler. Not that great of a shooter.

What is it with this organization and making players play out of position.

I know he didn't play the point in college, but he seems to think he can play the position. It's worth a look at least.

Psyren
07-01-2010, 05:01 PM
The problem he's had his entire life is he's too ball dominant. He's a shoot first, pass second type of player, or at least he was at Cincy.

Larry seems to think his attitude has changed though, and if he wants to be a team player, there's no reason why he can't be a dominant point guard.

Sookie
07-01-2010, 05:03 PM
I know he didn't play the point in college, but he seems to think he can play the position. It's worth a look at least.

Oh yea, it definitely worth a look, and we don't really have a better option in camp.

But Ben Gordon thought he was a point guard too...

Magic P
07-01-2010, 05:04 PM
The problem he's had his entire life is he's too ball dominant. He's a shoot first, pass second type of player, or at least he was at Cincy.

Larry seems to think his attitude has changed though, and if he wants to be a team player, there's no reason why he can't be a dominant point guard.

I don't trust LB's judgment of players.

BornReady
07-01-2010, 05:04 PM
not knocking on Lance or anything (actually, i LOVE him to death, as you guys may have realized,) but it just seems like he tells people what they want to hear

odeez
07-01-2010, 05:07 PM
not knocking on Lance or anything (actually, i LOVE him to death, as you guys may have realized,) but it just seems like he tells people what they want to hear

Hmmm, thanks, yeah not thrilled with the way he answers questions, he does seem to say what you want to hear, but not every player has great sound bites...

Sookie
07-01-2010, 05:11 PM
Hmmm, thanks, yeah not thrilled with the way he answers questions, he does seem to say what you want to hear, but not every player has great sound bites...

A lot of players do that, especially young ones.

Really?
07-01-2010, 05:24 PM
I remember mentioning this a long time ago when he was drafted that they would try him out as point and hope for a Tyreke Evans type player, many thought I wrong but I guess I was on the right track.

I think that if he can control his turnover issues, and obtains a pg mentality then he may actually start a few games at PG this season... near the end that is... here is the starting line up that I fell we will have by the beginning and end of the season...



Yeah I think

Starting out it will be
1 Ford
2 Rush
3 Granger
4 Murphy
5 Hibbert

By the end it will be

1 Stevenson
2 George
3 Granger
4 Hansbrough
5 Hibbert

I think Ford and Murphy will be traded by the end of the season, and Bird OBrien will try Stevenson at the 1....Rush will be a good 6th man

Then I switched McRoberts for Hansbrough as an after though... this is assuming we trade ford and Murphy, and I didn't take into account who we may trade for. It may not happen but I don't think that it is unconceivable...

odeez
07-01-2010, 05:29 PM
Listening to JMV, Lance comparing himself to Dwayne Wade... we could only hope!

MLB007
07-01-2010, 05:30 PM
The problem he's had his entire life is he's too ball dominant. He's a shoot first, pass second type of player, or at least he was at Cincy.

Larry seems to think his attitude has changed though, and if he wants to be a team player, there's no reason why he can't be a dominant point guard.

Well, yes actually there IS. His apparent lack of athleticism would seem to eliminate a 6'5" (stocky) guy from guarding world class quick point guards.

Really?
07-01-2010, 05:30 PM
Oh and what he brings to the PG position could be very good adding another dimension. No he wouldn't be the typical pg but his mid range game is pretty good... It is always good to have a PG that is willing to take it in, and take a little contact and kick it out to Granger, Rush, Murphy, George for the 3.

I guess we will see how he does in summer league...

tadscout
07-01-2010, 05:31 PM
I think he has enough ball handling, basketball IQ/savvy, and play making skills to be a PG... just needs to loose the selfishness he was known for...

MLB007
07-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Filling in the Blanks: NCAA Scouting Reports
April 28, 2010
Kyle Nelson

Toward the end of his freshman season, Cincinnati shooting guard Lance Stephenson surprisingly announced that he would return for his sophomore year. Weeks later, he shocked few when he reneged on that announcement and entered the NBA Draft with an agent (reportedly his lawyer, Alberto Ebanks). While Stephenson always seemed like a one-and-done player, he had a subpar freshman season that exposed many of his flaws and showed the limit of his potential.

Physically speaking, Stephenson has solid height for an NBA shooting guard at 6-5 with good length and a strong frame. As was the case in high school, he relies on his strength to overpower weaker players and compensate for his lack of athleticism. From a conditioning standpoint, he did not appear to be in ideal shape this past season, likely carrying an extra 10-15 pounds on his thick frame. He is quick in the open floor, but lacks the explosiveness and lateral quickness expected from wings (!!!! if he ain't quick enough for WINGS......)
at the next level. While he will continue to work on his strength and conditioning, there is no doubt that Stephenson is a below average athlete in the NBA.

His offensive skill set, which is heavily reliant on isolations and muscling his way to the basket, will probably have to be adapted at the next level, given his lack of explosiveness and quickness. While Stephenson’s touch around the basket is not bad, his overall shooting during his freshman season was extremely poor. He shot a dismal 21.9% from beyond the arc, converted under 50% from inside the arc and made just 66% of his foul shots.

On film, his shooting motion with his feet set is not terrible. He has a fairly fluid motion and release. But he has issues with excess lower body movement, and when he shoots off the dribble, his mechanics are less consistent and he has a tendency to fade away while shooting.

The biggest issue here is Stephenson’s decision making. He settles for bad shot after bad shot, in spite of miserable percentages and open teammates. He seems to lack any sort of understanding of shot selection. Even when his shots were not falling, he forced the issue and, if his teammates sought their own offense, he tended to pout and fade into the background. This is likely the primary cause for concern from NBA scouts, as Stephenson has never really shown the ability to play team-oriented basketball and could certainly have issues adapting to a situation where he’s simply a role player.

Stephenson does a good job of creating space off the dribble, showing solid ball-handling skills for his size. The effectiveness of his mid-range game suffers due to his poor shot selection, but he has shown an ability to find shots inside the arc and pull up off the dribble. Similarly, he was at his best last season when he attacked the basket both in transition and in half court situations, where he could use his size and strength to his advantage. He must improve his willingness to find the open man, though, as his tunnel vision often results in offensive fouls and untimely turnovers.

Though Cincinnati did not field the most competitive or disciplined team last season, Stephenson’s lack of offensive efficiency and selfish style of play have been omnipresent throughout his career. During workouts, he must somehow convince scouts that he is capable of playing team-oriented basketball and has the ability to produce efficiently in a smaller role. As we have written before, Stephenson possesses NBA-caliber scoring abilities. His average athleticism and questionable decision making ability, however, may force him to work his way up through the D-League first.

On the defensive end, Stephenson did a decent job at Cinncinati, but his lack of lateral quickness limits his potential in this area at the next level. He will struggle to guard bigger and more athletic guards in the NBA, though his strength and length will likely work in his favor. His strong frame also helps him on the boards, where he averages 7.5 rebounds per 40 minutes, pace adjusted -- solid numbers for a wing player.

His behavior off of the court has also been a well-documented issue in recent years. He stayed out of trouble at Cincinnati, but he has accumulated quite a collection of red flags during his brief time as an amateur basketball player. Any NBA team that considers drafting him will have to do extensive research about his background, and decipher why he was in such a big rush to leave Cincinnati after such a sub-par freshman season.

While there are a tremendous amount of obstacles in his way, Stephenson still has the potential to be a contributor at the next level at some point down the road. While his lack of explosiveness and mediocre shot selection are areas of significant concern, he has good scoring instincts and a decent offensive repertoire. Stephenson is sure to be one of the most controversial players in the draft. There is no guarantee that he will even be picked, but he may be able to carve out a career for himself regardless, a la Stephen Jackson

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Lance-Stephenson-1287/#ixzz0sT7mupMo
http://www.draftexpress.com

xBulletproof
07-01-2010, 05:37 PM
Listening to JMV, Lance comparing himself to Dwayne Wade... we could only hope!

That worries me. Anyone picked in the 2nd round probably shouldn't be thinking that highly of themselves. Goes along with the idea of self entitlement I've heard about him, however.

I didn't hear how it was said, or the context, but to me he should just be talking about working his *** off to be sure he makes the team, or to prove all the people who didn't draft him wrong. Not how he compares to an All NBA player.

MLB007
07-01-2010, 05:41 PM
2010 Draft Profile - Lance Stephenson
STRENGTHS: Lance is a big, strong, mobile and athletic scorer with an unquestionable scorer's mentality which has served him well in high school as well as at the University of Cincinnati. The Big East as well as non-conference play has been a successful audition for a guard that came on the scene with a chip on his shoulder and a desire to showcase his skills for one year before moving to the Association. His build allows him to shoot over smaller guards while also exhibiting surprising quickness at 6'5" and 200 pounds. In some cases Lance almost looks or craves physical contact en route to the basket on an athletic drive. Stephenson has demonstrated the ability to dish the rock in traffic and rebound with bigger players. He can be a streaky shooter but has an uncanny ability to always be around the rock and ready to score. While he has played some point for the Bearcats; his true position may be at small forward because smaller and quicker point and shooting guards provide trouble on the defensive end. But the tables quickly turn on the other end of court to an advantage for Mr. Stephenson.

WEAKNESSES: If he's one and done then Lance definitely needs to work on his mid to long range jumper and cut down on his capacity for turnovers. I wonder about his level of maturity and whether his off the court antics will subside or reappear in the pros. Does he need to be the man? Because he may be the man on a D-League team if he doesn't stick with an NBA team. May want to also work on conditioning because most of the guys he'll guard at the two spot or the three spot will be his size and just as strong. Will also have to work on his defense if he is going to see real minutes on the floor in the Association.

NBA OUTLOOK: What's the hurry? Stick around for another year; exhibit some leadership skills and show scouts that you are both physically and mentally ready for the grind of the NBA. Erase any doubt that you could be an impatient and unhappy bench and role player entering the NBA. Lance's hurry could put him squarely on a D-League squad or in Europe with a non-descript team. Talent can sometimes override good judgement; I hope it doesn't in Lance's case.
Player profile submitted by: Bruce C. Jett

Would you like to write a player profile for any prospect that may be entering the 2010 NBA Draft? Email profiles of any player (even player’s not on our list) to our Webmaster. Credit will be given to the author of the profile.

xBulletproof
07-01-2010, 05:45 PM
Player profile submitted by: Bruce C. Jett

Would you like to write a player profile for any prospect that may be entering the 2010 NBA Draft? Email profiles of any player (even player’s not on our list) to our Webmaster. Credit will be given to the author of the profile.

If you're quoting this to back up any statements, you just undercut your own debate.

Any Joe Schmoe can write an article and send it in. Meh.

MLB007
07-01-2010, 05:47 PM
NBA Comparison: Aaron McKie/Ron Artest

Strengths: Nineteen year old freshman with an NBA-ready body ... At 6'5 210, has a rare combination of power and quickness ... Completely dominated the New York PSAL, almost single handedly leading Lincoln HS to four titles (Owns the all time scoring record in the State of New York) ... Was often the biggest and strongest guy on the court, and took advantage of it, routinely dismantling opponents using brute force ... Relentless attacker of the basket, seeking out contact and getting to the free throw stripe where he converts at a high % ... Excellent penetrator with a quick first step ... Utilizes change of pace dribbles, cross-overs and spin moves to get into the lane ... Able to slither his way in between small creases ... Superior ball handler with a flare for the dramatic (good or bad) ... Good court vision. Aesthetically pleasing shooting stroke ... Supreme accuracy on pull up J's, especially when dribbling to his left ... "Easy" three point range. Has shown flashes of lock down on the ball defense with his strength and 6'10 wingspan ... Should be an instant fast break running the point at Cincinnati with his rebounding ability ... "Born Ready" has been hyped since day 1 at Lincoln, playing under tremendous pressure and scrutiny every night, even appearing in a documentary about him ...

Weaknesses: Legitimate question marks surrounding his character and mental makeup (high school carrer marred by an assault charge) ... The hope is that he will gain maturity at Cincinnati ... His on court body language is awful ... Often seen pouting, dragging his feet, arguing with referees and yelling at teammates ... If he believes he should get the ball and doesn't, or doesn't get a call, he's inclined to allow it to affect his game and take a play or two off ... Despite his athletic gifts, lacks explosive elevation on his jumper and on drives to the rim ... Needs work on leg strength, but just not a very explosive leaper ... Tends to fade away and abort follow-through on his jump shot from time to time ... Capable of making the spectacular pass, but does not always make the simple, smart pass ... Shows glimpses of extraordinary court vision, but too often has tunnel vision toward the hoop and doesn't look for teammates ... Seems to predetermine when to shoot and when to pass, rather than natually allowing the flow of the game come to him ... Gets wrapped up in 'style points' and getting oohs and aahs from the crowd instead of playing sound fundamental basketball ... Prone to stagnant over-dribbling. Lateral quickness is just average - looks lead footed ...Too much standing around on defense rather than being proactive on help D ...

Adam Ganeles 10/30/09
SEASON

TEAM

MIN

PTS

REB

AST

TO

A/T

STL

BLK

PF

FG%

FT%

3P%

PPS
2009-10 CIN 28.2 12.3 5.4 2.5 2.4 1.0 0.9 0.2 1.9 0.44 0.664 0.219 1.14
PerGame 28.2 12.3 5.4 2.5 2.4 1.0 0.9 0.2 1.9 0.440 0.664 1.14

SEASON

TEAM

GP

MIN

FG

FGA

FTM

FTA

3PM

3PA

PTS

OFF

DEF

TOT

AST

TO

STL

BLK

PF
2009-10 CIN 34 960 162 368 79 119 16 73 419 63 119 182 84 81 31 6 66
Totals 34 960 162 368 79 119 16 73 419 63 119 182 84 81 31 6 66
YouTube Clip - 5/16/2008
Download:
FLVMP43GP
YouTube Clip - 06/09/2010
Download:
FLVMP43GP
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odeez
07-01-2010, 05:47 PM
That worries me. Anyone picked in the 2nd round probably shouldn't be thinking that highly of themselves. Goes along with the idea of self entitlement I've heard about him, however.

I didn't hear how it was said, or the context, but to me he should just be talking about working his *** off to be sure he makes the team, or to prove all the people who didn't draft him wrong. Not how he compares to an All NBA player.

Yeah, sorry, the context was JMV asked him who he would compare himself to in the NBA. Lance said Wade, because he is a leader, makes great plays, and is a great player... that's not verbatim, but in general that is what he said...

MLB007
07-01-2010, 05:48 PM
If you're quoting this to back up any statements, you just undercut your own debate.

Any Joe Schmoe can write an article and send it in. Meh.

And so if you hadn't really seen a player, you would take the time to fill out a misleading and false report????????????? uh huh
The only statements that I'm responding to are the silly ones suggesting he might be a point guard. ;)
Guess all those are just bs, eh?
meh

Really?
07-01-2010, 05:48 PM
Hopefully he will end up getting quicker by lowering his body fat some from the workouts the pacers will have him do... if he wants to succeed at this next level he is going to have to continue to work hard and listen to what the coaches and trainers have to tell him...

I wish him the best....

Dr. Awesome
07-01-2010, 05:51 PM
He's 6'5. Clearly O'Brien sees him as a center.

BornReady
07-01-2010, 05:51 PM
well from what I can gather he has been working his @$$ off since committing to the draft and it has paid off a lot. that's why his stock rose so much in the days leading up to it.

xBulletproof
07-01-2010, 05:59 PM
And so if you hadn't really seen a player, you would take the time to fill out a misleading and false report????????????? uh huh
The only statements that I'm responding to are the silly ones suggesting he might be a point guard. ;)
Guess all those are just bs, eh?
meh

Doesn't mean they haven't seen the player, but it doesn't mean they have any clue what they're talking about either.

Really?
07-01-2010, 06:04 PM
Here is one of Chad Fords takes on Stevenson...


May 13 Update: (Las Vegas Workout Report) Cincinnati freshman Lance Stephenson was also in the house. Stephenson was ranked in the top 10 by many scouting services coming out of high school (No. 12 by ESPNU), but a bad reputation scared away a lot of colleges and has marred the opinion of many who've watched him play.

What I saw on Tuesday and Wednesday may cause some to reconsider. Abunassar has been working on Stephenson's conditioning. He is down to 227 with 9.4 percent body fat. He looks as cut and as lean as I've ever seen him. The better conditioning has clearly helped his game. He's lighter on his feet, more explosive and able to keep his intensity up for longer periods of time.

The guy can flat-out score. He's got a nice midrange jumper, can pound it down low and is always hunting for his shot. He wasn't overly selfish (despite the rep), but when a scoring opportunity came, he took it.

I pushed him a little bit after the workout on his bad rep. He was up-front with me that he may have let things get to his head in college. But the last season has been a humbling one for him. He has realized that hype alone won't get him into the league, and he has buckled down to work on his game.

While I don't think Stephenson is a lottery pick, there aren't 30 more talented players in the draft. I'm not sure how he'll handle all the distractions that the NBA brings, but his game is well-suited to the league.

In 3-on-3 games on Wednesday, he challenged Oklahoma State's James Anderson for the most points scored in the morning. He got his points in a variety of ways. He was unconscious from midrange, took the ball to the basket and even posted up a little. While there is clearly more room for maturity on and off the court, he's a talent who could get minutes immediately in the NBA.

cdash
07-01-2010, 07:12 PM
:rolleyes:

pacers74
07-01-2010, 07:14 PM
I don't think he is a point guard, but neither were Bledsoe and Bradley in college and people including me were willing to give them a chance at the position.

odeez
07-01-2010, 07:17 PM
:rolleyes:

Thank you, back at ya :rolleyes:

D-BONE
07-01-2010, 07:17 PM
I say he's best suited as instant O off the bench. At least early in his career assuming he earns the PT. Nothing about him via what little I've seen and the lot I've read sound as if a transition to point is conducive, but I guess there's always an outside chance.

IndyPacer
07-01-2010, 07:27 PM
That worries me. Anyone picked in the 2nd round probably shouldn't be thinking that highly of themselves. Goes along with the idea of self entitlement I've heard about him, however.

I didn't hear how it was said, or the context, but to me he should just be talking about working his *** off to be sure he makes the team, or to prove all the people who didn't draft him wrong. Not how he compares to an All NBA player.

That wasn't out of context or misquoted, either. In another interview I watched, he said that he expects to be an All-Star in a few years from now. He appears to really believe this. What I've seen in interviews has bothered me a bit. He strikes me as being too immature to be in the NBA right now, and this is doubly distrubing considering that people on this board want him to run the team's offense and make the big on-court decisions for the team.

I'm not trying to be too hard on him, nor do I dispute that he was probably well worth the risk at 40. I am well aware that he's young and has potential to grow into a very good player. I'm just saying that I have concerns about his level of readiness RIGHT NOW. Everyone is looking at his powerful physique, but I'm not convinced that his brain has caught up to his body.

odeez
07-01-2010, 07:34 PM
He seems to have the physical tools to play the position, but I think his maturity and ego are going to be his biggest challenges. He thinks he's going to be great, and I don't mind that as long as it doesn't hurt the team. We want players with some swagger, this team needs more of that. He seems to have worked on improving his rep, but still has a lot to prove. He is a low risk, high reward guy, the odds are he doesn't work out being a PG, but I won't poo poo on the possibilty he might be successful in some fashion.

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 07:34 PM
This guy is not a point guard. Unless if you want TJ 2.0 only stronger, you got Lance.

Or you can play him at his position and he can just use his handles to get past people at shooting guard.

woowoo
07-01-2010, 07:49 PM
Pippen, Jordan, and Harper all played some point for the Bulls back in the day. It is certainly possible....

vnzla81
07-01-2010, 07:53 PM
I been saying since they drafted him that the pacers want him to play the point, I think he has the tools to be one.

Really?
07-01-2010, 08:08 PM
This guy is not a point guard. Unless if you want TJ 2.0 only stronger, you got Lance.

Or you can play him at his position and he can just use his handles to get past people at shooting guard.

Huh...? what do you mean by TJ 2.0... he is nothing like Ford in any aspect... feel free to answer

IndyPacer
07-01-2010, 09:32 PM
Or you can play him at his position and he can just use his handles to get past people at shooting guard.

What?!?! What's this crazy talk about using a player in their actual position to give them the best chance to perform well and win games? At 6'5" he should clearly play at PF.

cdash
07-01-2010, 10:04 PM
Thank you, back at ya :rolleyes:

He's not a point guard. Just because we have a glaring hole at a position doesn't mean we have to try to jam a square peg into a round hole.

Trophy
07-01-2010, 10:05 PM
I hope not.

Pacers2012
07-01-2010, 10:17 PM
He would take to long to develope into a guard and we will have a guard most likely in the near future either from trade or a cheap FA. This is just not plausible at all. He is a true sg anyway

Young
07-01-2010, 10:23 PM
It is highly unlikely that Stephenson is a solution at the point.

He can probably play some point, especially in Jim's offense. I don't see him being a long term solution as a point guard though.

The guy is a scorer. Has enough size to play the 2. Why try and make him into a point? Let him do what he does well and focus on his on/off the court maturity.

It will be interesting to see how he does.

Pacers2012
07-01-2010, 10:23 PM
What?!?! What's this crazy talk about using a player in their actual position to give them the best chance to perform well and win games? At 6'5" he should clearly play at PF.

At 6'5 he should clearly not be playin PF. The average PF is easily 6'9. I mean reggie was 6'9 and a SG. It about how the player performs in a posistion that determines where he should play. Like Dirk, the dude is 7'0 and a guard. If he was in the post he would suck

xBulletproof
07-01-2010, 10:26 PM
At 6'5 he should clearly not be playin PF. The average PF is easily 6'9. I mean reggie was 6'9 and a SG. It about how the player performs in a posistion that determines where he should play. Like Dirk, the dude is 7'0 and a guard. If he was in the post he would suck

That "wooshing" sound you hear, is the joke going right over your head.

Magic P
07-01-2010, 10:29 PM
At 6'5 he should clearly not be playin PF. The average PF is easily 6'9. I mean reggie was 6'9 and a SG. It about how the player performs in a posistion that determines where he should play. Like Dirk, the dude is 7'0 and a guard. If he was in the post he would suck

:confused:

odeez
07-01-2010, 10:43 PM
He's not a point guard. Just because we have a glaring hole at a position doesn't mean we have to try to jam a square peg into a round hole.

Who said he was a point guard? I was simply posing a question. You disagree and that's cool, but at least give it a chance. Also where do you get that anyone is jamming him into the position? I just don't get that. The Pacers are going to try and see if he can play the one, and I think it is worth a look. I don't know if it will work, chances are it won't, but it is worth a try. Why don't you tune into NBATV on Monday if you can get the channel and report back what you see. We should all know a little more then.

ECKrueger
07-02-2010, 12:07 AM
At 6'5 he should clearly not be playin PF. The average PF is easily 6'9. I mean reggie was 6'9 and a SG. It about how the player performs in a posistion that determines where he should play. Like Dirk, the dude is 7'0 and a guard. If he was in the post he would suck

:p

cdash
07-02-2010, 12:10 AM
Who said he was a point guard? I was simply posing a question. You disagree and that's cool, but at least give it a chance. Also where do you get that anyone is jamming him into the position? I just don't get that. The Pacers are going to try and see if he can play the one, and I think it is worth a look. I don't know if it will work, chances are it won't, but it is worth a try. Why don't you tune into NBATV on Monday if you can get the channel and report back what you see. We should all know a little more then.

Isn't the title of this thread, "Lance Stephenson being our point guard of the future?" Doesn't that kind of imply that you think he is a point guard?

About jamming him into a position: The guy is a wing player. He seems like a very, very natural 2 guard to me. Trying to make him into a point guard just because we need one seems like you would be attempting to force him into being something that he's not. We've seen this experiment time and time again in the NBA, and it never, ever works. Exhibit A: Larry Hughes.

odeez
07-02-2010, 12:34 AM
Isn't the title of this thread, "Lance Stephenson being our point guard of the future?" Doesn't that kind of imply that you think he is a point guard?

About jamming him into a position: The guy is a wing player. He seems like a very, very natural 2 guard to me. Trying to make him into a point guard just because we need one seems like you would be attempting to force him into being something that he's not. We've seen this experiment time and time again in the NBA, and it never, ever works. Exhibit A: Larry Hughes.

I would have titled the thread "Lance Stephenson is our point guard of the future!" I wouldn't have placed question mark in there if I wasn't asking if folks here what they thought about him playing the position. Yes, it most likely won't work, but if he can be interchangeable btw 1 & 2 now and then that would be nice. I am not for making or forcing him into the position at all. The Pacers are already having him trying to run the offense in the first rookie practice. I get you don't like the idea, cool. I am open to seeing what he can do at the 1, that's all...

cdash
07-02-2010, 12:47 AM
I would have titled the thread "Lance Stephenson is our point guard of the future!" I wouldn't have placed question mark in there if I wasn't asking if folks here what they thought about him playing the position. Yes, it most likely won't work, but if he can be interchangeable btw 1 & 2 now and then that would be nice. I am not for making or forcing him into the position at all. The Pacers are already having him trying to run the offense in the first rookie practice. I get you don't like the idea, cool. I am open to seeing what he can do at the 1, that's all...

Alright, my fault then, sorry man. I just took it different than you intended.

I think he could actually play some spot minutes at the 1 if we were in a pinch, but his NBA future is at the 2 I think. Like you said, we wait and see.

millertime90
07-02-2010, 12:54 AM
the only difference between tyreke evans and lance stephenson is mentality...you teach lance how to become a team player without the enormous ego, then there's no reason he can't become a similar player. he sure as hell has the talent for it...

woowoo
07-02-2010, 01:10 AM
Mark Patrick and Conrad Brunner discuss Lance at the 7 min mark

http://www.wnde.com/mediaplayer/?station=WNDE-AM&action=ondemand&item=300655725&feed_name=mpos.xml

Mark Patrick and Lance

http://www.wnde.com/mediaplayer/?station=WNDE-AM&action=ondemand&item=300655725&feed_name=mpos.xml

Taterhead
07-02-2010, 02:09 AM
Hey, why the hell not? If he could develop into a PG you'll have one hell of a player. He has a lot of growing to do and I think a huge reason he dropped is that Cincy leaned on him a little too much, too early. If that kid goes to Duke or Michigan State he is brought along more slowly and his mistakes aren't so glaring. So I really don't see why we wouldn't give it a shot.

I think the biggest thing with Lance is he wants the ball in his hands. Last year at Cincy he averaged less than 11 shots a game in just under 30 minutes. He also had 8 games with 4+ assists, which for a freshman 2 guard is pretty impressive, and his college coach on the radio the other day said he was a great passer. So I think his rep as a gun is a little unwarranted.

jpc
07-02-2010, 02:44 AM
Didn't the Pacers once have a big strong point guard who liked to post up his verticially challenged peers? I think his name was Mark Jackson. Was he a decent player?

I also love this kid's attituede. The Pacers are in desperate need of a player with the confidence to take the ball inside. Your never going to be the best at anything unless you think you can be. Give him a chance.

IndyPacer
07-02-2010, 06:29 AM
Hey, why the hell not? If he could develop into a PG you'll have one hell of a player. He has a lot of growing to do and I think a huge reason he dropped is that Cincy leaned on him a little too much, too early. If that kid goes to Duke or Michigan State he is brought along more slowly and his mistakes aren't so glaring. So I really don't see why we wouldn't give it a shot.

I think the biggest thing with Lance is he wants the ball in his hands. Last year at Cincy he averaged less than 11 shots a game in just under 30 minutes. He also had 8 games with 4+ assists, which for a freshman 2 guard is pretty impressive, and his college coach on the radio the other day said he was a great passer. So I think his rep as a gun is a little unwarranted.

He was also dumped from Team USA's 18 and under team because he was such a ball hog. I hope he's learned from his past mistakes because I get some bad Steve "Franchise" Francis vibes from reading about the problems he's had. "Starbury" is another guy who had talent but couldn't get past personality issues. I don't think Stephenson is as much of a risk as those guys, but let's not ignore red flags completely just because he was drafted by our team. I think he'll be OK if he humbles himself a bit. A good torching by an elite NBA player would probably help him get his priorities in gear so he stops thinking he's going to be the All-Stars East starting PG and begin thinking about how he can earn a chance to come off the bench for the Pacers.

Major Cold
07-02-2010, 07:16 AM
Did you like Flip at Point? Do you want a slower more inexperienced Flip?

Anthem
07-02-2010, 07:54 AM
Did you like Flip at Point? Do you want a slower more inexperienced Flip?
Actually, yes. I preferred Flip to TJ.

TooBigNdaPaint
07-02-2010, 08:05 AM
The problem he's had his entire life is he's too ball dominant. He's a shoot first, pass second type of player, or at least he was at Cincy.

Larry seems to think his attitude has changed though, and if he wants to be a team player, there's no reason why he can't be a dominant point guard.


If you heard OB's recent comments before and after the first Summer League practice, he WANTS his starting PG to look for his shot FIRST and then PASS second. This comment took me by surprise since most posters (myself included) thought he pulled TJ Ford for this exact reason. But, in OBIE's offense, it makes sense. If you PG is running and get to the rim, he SHOULD take it to the rim hard. Lance has these exact qualities. He's a dominant, physical, freak, who will take it hard to the hole and get the foul. He's a good free throw shooter so he'll score 20pts plus (high percentage) each night because there aren't many BIG point guards in this league. He'll also match up with Derrick Rose and Rajon Rando but they may be a little quicker than him. That's okay because they'll have to deal with his size and strength on the opposite end. This should make for EXCITING basketball if it plays out that Lance is INSTINCTIVE (as he thinks he is) in making the right play at the right time on 95% of each possession. Defensively, he'll be a nightmare to opposing PGs and SGs with his size and strength. He'll UPGRADE our defensive presence and will be able to get strips and steals against opposing SF and PF when he's close enough to help out on defense. Hibbert and Murph will love his size and tenacity and help ability. I'm amazed at his superb confidence and instinctiveness for the game thus far. Lance has played against the BEST high schoolers who are NOW in the NBA (when he was a young as 8th Grade, i.e. OJ Mayo) so he knows that he's got a much game as they do. As the negative press is a joke. There are too many HATERS who are just jealous of his skill level and nitpick his game to death. Lance will be a STEAL of this DRAFT and may be an ALL-STAR before Paul George.

thewholefnshow31
07-02-2010, 08:23 AM
the only difference between tyreke evans and lance stephenson is mentality...you teach lance how to become a team player without the enormous ego, then there's no reason he can't become a similar player. he sure as hell has the talent for it...

You cannot teach that. Either a player gets or he does not get. That is the big worry about Stephenson and that is why I do not have high hopes for him. Hopefully he gets his head straight and is not a problem, but I am not going to hold my breath.

owl
07-02-2010, 08:36 AM
Did you like Flip at Point? Do you want a slower more inexperienced Flip?

If this works you have something special. If it does not you have lost nothing. Mark Jackson was not exactly fleet of foot or a great defender but he sure could play the point at his size.

Justin Tyme
07-02-2010, 10:26 AM
We've seen this experiment time and time again in the NBA, and it never, ever works. Exhibit A: Larry Hughes.


Then there was Marquis Daniels at PG.

Brad8888
07-02-2010, 11:21 AM
Isiah and Jalen thought that Jalen could play pg in the "Quick", too. That worked out great, too, didn't it? The difference, though, is the fact that Jalen was a very skilled scorer at the NBA level prior to conducting Isiah's experiment. Stephenson may or may not be skilled enough to even make the team.

The weird thing is that O'B's statements regarding Stephenson even confirm his strategy that has a primary focus of having a scoring first pg who only looks to pass when he is cut off from an easy score. Exactly like TJ and all of the other guards who have played for O'B in the past have played, with Allen Iverson serving as his prototype for what a pg is supposed to be.

I would rather see Dunleavy play pg than anybody we have, now, because he may have the courage to stand up to O'B and install a passing game starting at the point. I know he would be hopeless on defense, but we don't play much defense with O'B as coach anyway, so who cares?

OakMoses
07-02-2010, 11:43 AM
Tyreke Evans is not a PG.

OakMoses
07-02-2010, 12:10 PM
Mark Patrick and Conrad Brunner discuss Lance at the 7 min mark

http://www.wnde.com/mediaplayer/?station=WNDE-AM&action=ondemand&item=300655725&feed_name=mpos.xml

Mark Patrick and Lance

http://www.wnde.com/mediaplayer/?station=WNDE-AM&action=ondemand&item=300655725&feed_name=mpos.xml

In the interview with Conrad, he says that Bird brought in Kramer for the workout specifically to challenge Stephenson. Then he says that Stephenson picked apart everyone in that workout.

Hicks
07-02-2010, 03:09 PM
Tyreke Evans is not a PG.

And if he and Wade aren't, neither is Lance.

I'm intrigued only in that he's new and it might be a better fit in this system than in most, but in the end, this guy will be a SG long-term in all likelihood.

But I'm cool with trying him at the 1 for a bit.

OakMoses
07-02-2010, 03:20 PM
And if he and Wade aren't, neither is Lance.

I'm intrigued only in that he's new and it might be a better fit in this system than in most, but in the end, this guy will be a SG long-term in all likelihood.

But I'm cool with trying him at the 1 for a bit.

The term '0 guard' really needs to be more recognized by most NBA fans. We need a term to talk about the Kobe/Roy/Turner/Evans/Wade players as they seem to be coming along much more often these days.

Then we can start talking about guys like Fisher as '0 guard PG's'.

odeez
07-02-2010, 03:36 PM
A nice article by Wells on Stephenson. Looks like JOB wants him to be a shoot first guard, and I am sure shoot the threes as well...

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100702/SPORTS04/7020329/1088/SPORTS04/Pacers-Stephenson-could-be-special-or-a-headache

Deadshot
07-02-2010, 04:56 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned before but I don't think it deserves a new thread. Apparently Lance has been sidelined with a foot injury for several practices by now. The details weren't very specific but I don't imagine it to be serious at all.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_100702.html

odeez
07-02-2010, 05:02 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned before but I don't think it deserves a new thread. Apparently Lance has been sidelined with a foot injury for several practices by now. The details weren't very specific but I don't imagine it to be serious at all.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_100702.html

Yo thanks a million, that is why he is in the new scrimmage video1

TooBigNdaPaint
07-02-2010, 05:56 PM
Yo thanks a million, that is why he is in the new scrimmage video1

Nice scrimmage but I didn't see that much domination by Magnum Rolle as Obie had stated after this particular scrimmage. Not sure what he was seeing on this video but Rolle played okay although I believe he's definitely a keeper and will provide much need athleticism for the Pacers when we need to match up against some of the more athletic BIGs in the Eastern Conference.

Also, I'm trying not to be too picky but Josh McRoberts still can't shoot a lick. I'm sure his legs were dead. He had mentioned that he was NOT training for Summer League play and liken playing in Summer League (without training up) like walking around the block one day and then being asked to run the Marathon the next day. Poor Josh but as he said.....he's a basketball player and he's loves to play whenever the opportunity arises.

The only un-drafted player that caught my eye and who seems to score consistently from all over the court is the French PG Thomas Huertel. This guy has got some game and I can see why he was the MVP of the Adidas Eurocamp this year. He doesn't seem to be exceptionally quick laterally on the defensive end but he's sneaky quick on offense, has got a good handle, and has a good feel for both passing or shooting it from anywhere on the court. He may be somebody that the Pacers want to keep if the opportunity presents itself. We could use his scoring and craftiness on offense. We'll see if he has NBA type skills when they start playing next week in Summer League. I hope Obie gives him an opportunity to play major minutes. He may be a sleeper for us.

Hopefully, someone will give us a medical update on Lance. I really wanted to see him play full court today. Paul George looked smooth on offense and has some game as well. He's got a real fluid jump shot and his size on defense definitely keeps his man thinking about coming inside when guarded by Paul.

MLB007
07-02-2010, 06:17 PM
Then there was Marquis Daniels at PG.

Lets not forget out own beloved George McLeod!
Gonna revolutionize the position. :-o
Look, I love the enthusiasm. to a degree. But nobodies seen the guy play a minute and yet all kinds of assumptions and expectations are running rampant across this site. Can a 6'5 225lb guy play pg? With less than average athleticisim for a TWO guard???????
C'mon.........:p

Coop
07-02-2010, 06:39 PM
Can a 6'5 225lb guy play pg? With less than average athleticisim for a TWO guard???????
C'mon.........:p

I'm not sold on Stephenson playing PG yet either. But, he did have a better vertical, longer wingspan, and faster agility times than Mikhail Torrance (6'5" 210lbs), who many on here wanted us to pick in the 2nd round as a PG. He also beat out Avery Bradley with his agility time, and one of Bradley's biggest strengths coming into the draft was his elite athleticism.

Obviously doesn't mean anything. I thought it was interesting to note as a comparison though.

BlueNGold
07-02-2010, 08:00 PM
I fully understand the need to improve the talent on this team. I understand the concern is that this is a team of milk drinkers and we need some arrogance, aggressiveness and swagger. The dude will also bring some toughness which...except for Tyler H...this team lacks. Lance is also clearly a natural gamer. I get all of that. But I still cannot believe the Pacers pulled the trigger on him regardless of what a PI happened to not find.

Here are the excerpts that have me concerned:

Stephenson was charged with sexual abuse after being accused of groping a girl at a bus stop near his high school during his senior year.

When was this? Last year? Maybe 18 months ago? Yeh...no conviction...so let's just forget about that one....

...and this:

He also was cut from the Team USA 18-and- under team because of chemistry concerns....."The question is what was happening with those other four guys on the court when Lance is on the court? Five percent of the game is played with the ball in your hands. The other 95 percent is played without the ball in your hands. Lance had to work on that. We try to implement the team concept of passing more than dribbling."

Keep in mind this is a guy comparing himself to DWade before he's sniffed a dollar of NBA money. Wait until he is making millions. These are things that simply don't change easily...and sometimes never in their lives. This is the telltale Marbury/Tinsley selfish-ball that we all know and hate.

...and this:

Stephenson led Lincoln High School, which also produced Stephon Marbury and Sebastian Telfair, to four straight city championships.

Who is this? Another Marbury? Now the pieces fall into place.

But the worse part is if Lance pans out at PG. What happens when you have to re-sign him? I suppose he may represent a trading asset.....so I guess that is something to stand on. But I just cannot imagine signing a multi-year million dollar contract with a guy that has that resume' AFTER seeing a tremendous basketball franchise be decimated by character issues. We have this to look forward to while wondering when IMPD is going to get their first arrest.

If your argument is that "after all, he doesn't have a guaranteed contract", I guess that helps...but where is the benefit of drafting him? You don't draft a guy and expect him to fall flat on his face. If he succeeds, who signs him to his multi-million dollar contract? Personally, I don't think the Pacers can take a risk on him. The only alternative is to trade the asset and it would be a fire sale.

Taterhead
07-02-2010, 08:12 PM
If you heard OB's recent comments before and after the first Summer League practice, he WANTS his starting PG to look for his shot FIRST and then PASS second. This comment took me by surprise since most posters (myself included) thought he pulled TJ Ford for this exact reason. But, in OBIE's offense, it makes sense. If you PG is running and get to the rim, he SHOULD take it to the rim hard. Lance has these exact qualities.

And with Brandon Rush as your starting SG, at least as of right now, I think those qualities are magnified a little. You can't have 2 passive guards. Guys have got to be more assertive. I think the key here is Lance learning a good shot from a bad one, and a good pass from a bad one. Sure he was let go off Team USA, but I don't really think that has anything to do with the future. That was him then, as an extremely young player with a lot to learn. Why not give him a chance? What do we have to lose? If it doesn't work out, back to SG he goes. But the potential of him at PG with his size and handles is worth a look.


I fully understand the need to improve the talent on this team. I understand the concern is that this is a team of milk drinkers and we need some arrogance, aggressiveness and swagger. The dude will also bring some toughness which...except for Tyler H...this team lacks. Lance is also clearly a natural gamer. I get all of that. But I still cannot believe the Pacers pulled the trigger on him regardless of what a PI happened to not find.

Here are the excerpts that have me concerned:

Stephenson was charged with sexual abuse after being accused of groping a girl at a bus stop near his high school during his senior year.

When was this? Last year? Maybe 18 months ago? Yeh...no conviction...so let's just forget about that one....

...and this:

He also was cut from the Team USA 18-and- under team because of chemistry concerns....."The question is what was happening with those other four guys on the court when Lance is on the court? Five percent of the game is played with the ball in your hands. The other 95 percent is played without the ball in your hands. Lance had to work on that. We try to implement the team concept of passing more than dribbling."

Keep in mind this is a guy comparing himself to DWade before he's sniffed a dollar of NBA money. Wait until he is making millions. These are things that simply don't change easily...and sometimes never in their lives. This is the telltale Marbury/Tinsley selfish-ball that we all know and hate.

...and this:

Stephenson led Lincoln High School, which also produced Stephon Marbury and Sebastian Telfair, to four straight city championships.

Who is this? Another Marbury? Now the pieces fall into place.

But the worse part is if Lance pans out at PG. What happens when you have to re-sign him? I suppose he may represent a trading asset.....so I guess that is something to stand on. But I just cannot imagine signing a multi-year million dollar contract with a guy that has that resume' AFTER seeing a tremendous basketball franchise be decimated by character issues. We have this to look forward to while wondering when IMPD is going to get their first arrest.

If your argument is that "after all, he doesn't have a guaranteed contract", I guess that helps...but where is the benefit of drafting him? You don't draft a guy and expect him to fall flat on his face. If he succeeds, who signs him to his multi-million dollar contract? Personally, I don't think the Pacers can take a risk on him. The only alternative is to trade the asset and it would be a fire sale.

I think people should stop writing people off for mistakes they have made as kids. He is a human being, and human beings make mistakes. It's easy for us to sit here and criticize people. But none of us know what it's like to have people doing news stories about you as an 8th grader and constantly showering you with praise every step of your development. It has an affect on your mindset. I think we were all a lot different as 17-19 year olds than we were at 24-25 year olds. So lets hold off the criticism until the kid at least gets a fair shake at growing up. These guys live in a different world than we do, and experience a side of life most of us have no clue about. A lot of people have overcame a lot more than ego problems, so I don't see any reason to feel Lance can't overcome what ever issues he may have.

Sure, we are all a little concerned with some things in his past. But who knows? For a second round pick he has great potential. I think we should all be excited about that.

MLB007
07-02-2010, 08:20 PM
I'm not sold on Stephenson playing PG yet either. But, he did have a better vertical, longer wingspan, and faster agility times than Mikhail Torrance (6'5" 210lbs), who many on here wanted us to pick in the 2nd round as a PG. He also beat out Avery Bradley with his agility time, and one of Bradley's biggest strengths coming into the draft was his elite athleticism.

Obviously doesn't mean anything. I thought it was interesting to note as a comparison though.

Yeh that is interesting. And contrary to the negative athletic reports I read about him. hmmm
I did see somewhere that he appeared to be in better shape for the NBA camps than he was in college. 20 lbs would make an awfully big difference in athleticism at that level I would think. ??

CooperManning
07-02-2010, 08:23 PM
If your argument is that "after all, he doesn't have a guaranteed contract", I guess that helps...but where is the benefit of drafting him? You don't draft a guy and expect him to fall flat on his face. If he succeeds, who signs him to his multi-million dollar contract? Personally, I don't think the Pacers can take a risk on him. The only alternative is to trade the asset and it would be a fire sale.

I don't understand...are you saying that a problem with Stephenson is that he will want a multi-million dollar contract if he succeeds? Is there an NBA player who doesn't? I think it will be incredibly fortunate if our 2nd round pick does well enough to command a high salary.

How much of a "risk" is any second round pick, really?

BlueNGold
07-02-2010, 08:58 PM
And with Brandon Rush as your starting SG, at least as of right now, I think those qualities are magnified a little. You can't have 2 passive guards. Guys have got to be more assertive. I think the key here is Lance learning a good shot from a bad one, and a good pass from a bad one. Sure he was let go off Team USA, but I don't really think that has anything to do with the future. That was him then, as an extremely young player with a lot to learn. Why not give him a chance? What do we have to lose? If it doesn't work out, back to SG he goes. But the potential of him at PG with his size and handles is worth a look.



I think people should stop writing people off for mistakes they have made as kids. He is a human being, and human beings make mistakes. It's easy for us to sit here and criticize people. But none of us know what it's like to have people doing news stories about you as an 8th grader and constantly showering you with praise every step of your development. It has an affect on your mindset. I think we were all a lot different as 17-19 year olds than we were at 24-25 year olds. So lets hold off the criticism until the kid at least gets a fair shake at growing up. These guys live in a different world than we do, and experience a side of life most of us have no clue about. A lot of people have overcame a lot more than ego problems, so I don't see any reason to feel Lance can't overcome what ever issues he may have.

Sure, we are all a little concerned with some things in his past. But who knows? For a second round pick he has great potential. I think we should all be excited about that.

I don't blame him. I just don't think he's worth the risk because I don't see a sufficient reward. IMO, the best case situation means that he plays well and we trade him for some nominal value. Worst case, he plays well, we re-sign him and he blows up like Artest or Marbury. Middle ground is...we cut him loose. None of those options are appealing IMO.

Taterhead
07-02-2010, 09:01 PM
I don't blame him. I just don't think he's worth the risk because I don't see a sufficient reward. IMO, the best case situation means that he plays well and we trade him for some nominal value. Worst case, he plays well, we re-sign him and he blows up like Artest or Marbury. Middle ground is...we cut him loose. None of those options are appealing IMO.

I disagree, I think the best case is he learns from past mistakes and develops into a good person and fulfills his potential and we get a steal. Why do you label him someone who can't handle success as a grown man because he let his success get to his head as a kid? I just disagree that it's a risk because of what happened on a 18 and under USA team. I think you are letting the the Pacers past determine their future, which is always a mistake.

BlueNGold
07-02-2010, 09:03 PM
I don't understand...are you saying that a problem with Stephenson is that he will want a multi-million dollar contract if he succeeds? Is there an NBA player who doesn't? I think it will be incredibly fortunate if our 2nd round pick does well enough to command a high salary.

How much of a "risk" is any second round pick, really?

My concern is not that he will want big money. My concern is that drafting him is taking a needless risk that has limited potential reward. I think the Pacers are just impressed with what they believe is a steal in the second round. I hope they are right, but I don't think the story will end a happy one.

BlueNGold
07-02-2010, 09:07 PM
I disagree, I think the best case is he learns from past mistakes and develops into a good person and fulfills his potential and we get a steal. Why do you label him someone who can't handle success as a grown man because he let his success get to his head as a kid? I just disagree that it's a risk because of what happened on a 18 and under USA team. I think you are letting the the Pacers past determine their future, which is always a mistake.

I would give your first sentence about a 2% chance of happening. ...and I'm not labeling him as someone who cannot handle success as a grown man, because I don't think his type grows up. That's the problem. See Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury and Jamaal Tinsley for examples. I do wish him luck...and really, really want to believe you are right...but I don't believe it.

Anthem
07-02-2010, 11:13 PM
I would give your first sentence about a 2% chance of happening. ...and I'm not labeling him as someone who cannot handle success as a grown man, because I don't think his type grows up. That's the problem. See Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury and Jamaal Tinsley for examples. I do wish him luck...and really, really want to believe you are right...but I don't believe it.
The dude hasn't played a single minute of NBA ball yet. Can we at least give him summer league before writing him off?

ChicagoJ
07-03-2010, 12:14 AM
What is summer league going to prove about (a) his ability to play in the NBA, (b) his ability to play PG in the NBA, (c) his ability to grow up (which was BnG's point), or (d) pretty much anything.

Summer league is almost as overrated as individual pre-draft workouts.

Maybe I should take the summer off and just let the loonies and crackpots take over.

ReginaldWayne
07-03-2010, 12:22 AM
We really dont know at this point enuf to say hes gna be the pg of the future . He does have a great talent and this rookie yr will say a lot about him, well see if he can get his togther and also make the right plays. If he gets mins which he will eventually will over the course of whole season we'll see how he plays at the point. He could definately be a good contributer andland into into a bigger role in the future as a combo but maybe even point. But its also pretty possible that his head isnt together and he sits on the bench untill hes traded or let go. But for now ill give him the benefit if the doubt, he does have a lot of potential so lets see what he does with it

BlueNGold
07-03-2010, 02:04 PM
The dude hasn't played a single minute of NBA ball yet. Can we at least give him summer league before writing him off?

You are welcome to give him summer league or whatever you like. I also respect your opinion on this. I just have a different one...one that is not interested in a repeat....or even a sniff of the last fiasco of a decade. I don't even like the reminder....and I don't think you need his type to win. Maybe I have a little more patience.

If he surprises everyone by a) playing unselfishly, b) playing smart with the ball (including sharing the ball) and c) keeping out of trouble off the court for a couple solid years...all things he is known not to do...I will join everyone on the Lance Stephenson band wagon if there's another seat. For now, I wish you all well on the trip.

BTW, what is the plan if he plays really well (at PG) during his first year? Isn't this what everyone wants? What is the next step? Do you sign that 4 year 8M/yr contract with him and hope he doesn't pull a Tinsley or blow up in your face the next year? I'm pretty risk tolerant and I don't care for that scenario...

Taterhead
07-03-2010, 02:17 PM
I just wish people would actually watch him play before speaking on him. He averaged 11 shots per game in around 30 minutes a game. That is a shot about every 3 minutes. Geez, what a ball hog. He has trouble with shot selection. That is a completely different issue. His assist numbers are actually great for a freshman 2 guard, and I challenge someone to find a freshman SG with better assist numbers. And as far as I know Lance has never been in any real trouble. He was charged with sexual assault a few years back and the charges were dismissed. Sure you can just label it another athlete getting an unfair break, but the truth is none of us know the specifics of the incident and it could just as easily be a case of someone talking out of their rear end.

BTW if he plays really well at PG I would have no problem signing him to a 4 year deal that pays him 2 million per season. And I would feel like a got a steal.

Ozwalt72
07-03-2010, 02:31 PM
BTW, what is the plan if he plays really well (at PG) during his first year? Isn't this what everyone wants? What is the next step? Do you sign that 4 year 8M/yr contract with him and hope he doesn't pull a Tinsley or blow up in your face the next year? I'm pretty risk tolerant and I don't care for that scenario...

You take him up on his freakin' team option or unguarantee'd second year, is what you do.

Hicks
07-03-2010, 02:36 PM
I thought I read that the sexual abuse thing was him grabbing a girl's butt. Both he and the girl were teenagers. Not a huge deal from what I know so far, though certainly inappropriate. Just my opinion.

BlueNGold
07-03-2010, 04:13 PM
You take him up on his freakin' team option or unguarantee'd second year, is what you do.

Then what? Take him up in terms of cutting him...or keeping him? If you keep him, are you ready to fork out 6-8M/yr after two years of good ball and behaviour? How is this different than Tinsley II?...at least in year 3 when you have to sign that contract?

Ozwalt72
07-03-2010, 05:58 PM
Then what? Take him up in terms of cutting him...or keeping him? If you keep him, are you ready to fork out 6-8M/yr after two years of good ball and behaviour? How is this different than Tinsley II?...at least in year 3 when you have to sign that contract?

If he's earned the contract....hell yes you do.

A GM operating on fear of "maybe" isn't going to be in charge of a team very long. Would you let a player that has earned such a contract -at a position of need- just walk? If you are concerned about his behavior you try to trade him.

odeez
07-03-2010, 06:06 PM
We're all just going to have to wait and see. Hopefully he plays this week and we can at least have idea if it's even possible. I see both sides of the debate, and I am glad we are at least having the conversation. I don't have any compelling evidence for either side. You either like the idea or you don't. I know if he does succeed we will all be here chanting his name (ok maybe not all of us), if he fails his detractors will say see I told you so. I like the idea of him being able to play the position, but I also know his background regardless of how much the Pacers checked him out, raises some red flags. I like to think we are due for some good fortune and he will show maturity and the willingness to behave and take this opportunity and make something of it. In the end, time will tell, the problem is we have all been waiting such a long, long time.

idioteque
07-03-2010, 07:00 PM
Then what? Take him up in terms of cutting him...or keeping him? If you keep him, are you ready to fork out 6-8M/yr after two years of good ball and behaviour? How is this different than Tinsley II?...at least in year 3 when you have to sign that contract?

I'm not worried about Stephenson's off-court behavior. It sounds like the Pacers vetted him harder literally than a player has ever been vetted before by an NBA team. Bird was stung hard by the Artest situation and wouldn't take a chance on the guy unless it had a more than reasonable chance of panning out. So he was dropped off a team for chemistry (not disciplinary) reason when he was 18 and supposedly grabbed some girl's *** in high school? Not enough to discount the guy in my opinion, if he had an extensive high school criminal record okay, but not a big deal to me.

What worries me more is his on-court play. I am sure Lance has all the talent in the world, but he's at a make or break point in his basketball career where he needs to learn to be an unselfish player. He won't be learning that in Jim O'Brien's flunksketball system. Hopefully Lance just stays relatively level as a rookie player and can be convinced to buy into a system next year, where he may really blossom and turn into a good pro.

rel
07-03-2010, 07:54 PM
somewhat off topic, but saw lance @ circle center today! Got a picture with him. i think i was the only person to recognize him :/ hopefully he can change that by playing well on the court

Ozwalt72
07-03-2010, 08:13 PM
somewhat off topic, but saw lance @ circle center today! Got a picture with him. i think i was the only person to recognize him :/ hopefully he can change that by playing well on the court

Did his eyes glow red and did he seem to have an overwhelming desire to eat babies?

IndyPacer
07-03-2010, 09:00 PM
I'm not worried about Stephenson's off-court behavior. It sounds like the Pacers vetted him harder literally than a player has ever been vetted before by an NBA team. Bird was stung hard by the Artest situation and wouldn't take a chance on the guy unless it had a more than reasonable chance of panning out. So he was dropped off a team for chemistry (not disciplinary) reason when he was 18 and supposedly grabbed some girl's *** in high school? Not enough to discount the guy in my opinion, if he had an extensive high school criminal record okay, but not a big deal to me.

What worries me more is his on-court play. I am sure Lance has all the talent in the world, but he's at a make or break point in his basketball career where he needs to learn to be an unselfish player. He won't be learning that in Jim O'Brien's flunksketball system. Hopefully Lance just stays relatively level as a rookie player and can be convinced to buy into a system next year, where he may really blossom and turn into a good pro.


I'm far less worried about Stephenson than I would be about someone like Tinsley or Stephen Jackson. I don't think Stephenson will get into bizarre shootouts at nightclubs or any of that type of nonsense. I'm mostly concerned that he doesn't develop any of the unbearable personality issues of someone like Francis, Starbury, or Rider. I think he's been hearing everyone around him tell him he's going to be the next Michael Jordan or something, but I think getting drafted in the 2nd round and facing some tough competition should help humble him a bit.

He did rub me the wrong way with his interviews saying he's going to be a All-Star within a few years and seemed to think he's a gifted PG with no on-court evidence to back that up, but I'm happy to support him as long as I keep reading that he's behaving himself and not creating any problems on the team. I would have actually worried more about his ego had he been an absolute athletic freak and was drafted in the lottery. I think guys like "Franchise" were convinced that they came into the league so talented and skilled that they didn't need to bother trying to get any better because they thought they were already the best anyone could be. So he never got better, and no one could stand his arrogance and unpleasant personality.

I think the Pacers did the right thing scrutinizing and investigating him so carefully. I'm going to do my best to give Lance the benefit of the doubt, which I trust he deserves based on the extensive background checks they performed. I wish I could get a peek at that psych report, though. :D

bunt
07-03-2010, 09:11 PM
Then what? Take him up in terms of cutting him...or keeping him? If you keep him, are you ready to fork out 6-8M/yr after two years of good ball and behaviour? How is this different than Tinsley II?...at least in year 3 when you have to sign that contract?

I think this may be my first post on here but these comments are just ridiculous. You're letting one incident to completely define this guy. You're worried that a SECOND round pick might turn out to be a good player. Think about that, because it doesn't make sense. It's almost like you're rooting against the guy - not because you don't like him, not because of his skill set, not because he went to Cincy and you like OSU, but because he might succeed and then he might jump into the stands and set back the franchise another 5 years. All because of one incident.

That is completely backwards thinking and would get the Pacers nowhere. It's simple: if in this first year he's a bad apple - you cut him. If he plays well - you sign him. If he continues to play well and improve, you continue to sign him.

Hicks
07-03-2010, 11:28 PM
somewhat off topic, but saw lance @ circle center today! Got a picture with him. i think i was the only person to recognize him :/ hopefully he can change that by playing well on the court

Did he try to grab your ***? We need to start watching out for that since he's in town. ;) j/k

Pointz
07-03-2010, 11:35 PM
We are rushing to judgement on this kid...he is young and probably a little immature but he has good potential for a second round pick.He has no guarantees from the Pacers. I can understand the concerns with his off-court issues, but alot of us didn't see those issues occuring before they happened. So who are we to rush to judgement on this kid before he has a chance to play?

MaHa3000
07-04-2010, 11:23 AM
I've been watching a lot of video on him. I've watched a lot of video on Tyreke Evans to try to compare the two. Lance to me seems to be on that level.

I believe with the right coach that he could be an all star point gaurd. He has handles and vision. His cross-over was at least effective at the college level.

I saw in those videos a natural abillity to create. When have the Pacers had this type of talent?

The hype surrounding "Born Ready" has probably gotten to me. But I have tried not to like the kid. Sure he may not be as well spoken as we would like our multi-million $ players to be he in Pacers-nation. And he may lack the fundamentals we prefer as well. I just can't get over the unique abilty he has to get to the rim (especially in the fast break).

Until Lance gives me a reason not to be, I'm really excited about his future here as a Pacer. And I'm really hoping he turns out to be a point gaurd.

jeffg-body
07-05-2010, 02:17 AM
Why not give the kid a shot at it? Let him play significant minutes the first half of the season backing up TJ, who would start. Split the numbers where he consistently get half a game and don't waver, regardless of the score or record. Why not? The kid has all of the talent in the world.

This may kick that old knock on the kid saying that he has an ego a mile wide and does not work together well on a team. If the kid does poorly he could be a good SG in the rotation. If he does well, trade TJ at the deadline and make AJ the starter and Lance the back-up that logs serious minutes.

Brad8888
07-05-2010, 07:09 PM
Isiah and Jalen thought that Jalen could play pg in the "Quick", too. That worked out great, too, didn't it? The difference, though, is the fact that Jalen was a very skilled scorer at the NBA level prior to conducting Isiah's experiment. Stephenson may or may not be skilled enough to even make the team.

The weird thing is that O'B's statements regarding Stephenson even confirm his strategy that has a primary focus of having a scoring first pg who only looks to pass when he is cut off from an easy score. Exactly like TJ and all of the other guards who have played for O'B in the past have played, with Allen Iverson serving as his prototype for what a pg is supposed to be.

I would rather see Dunleavy play pg than anybody we have, now, because he may have the courage to stand up to O'B and install a passing game starting at the point. I know he would be hopeless on defense, but we don't play much defense with O'B as coach anyway, so who cares?

Apparently, after today's game, I was wrong about Stephenson. :blush: :o

Go Lance! :happydanc

BornReady
07-05-2010, 07:24 PM
haha guys I think today only adds to the excitement of the 2010 NBA draft day thread
MANY of is were ecstatic to get lance stephenson- i just revisited it to see how it went down <3
check around pg 10ish if you want to see

vnzla81
07-05-2010, 07:33 PM
Is nice to see so many people jumping in his band wagon, I think that Im not as crazy as some people thought I was when I said that the pacers drafted him to be the point guard of the future.

speakout4
07-05-2010, 07:44 PM
Did he try to grab your ***? We need to start watching out for that since he's in town. ;) j/k
I just hope he doesn't ***-grab during a game. ;)

Hoop
07-05-2010, 09:01 PM
I only saw a few of Tyreke Evans' games this season, but I thought Lance looked very similar today. (not saying he's the next tyreke, but one can dream)

Anyone see a lot of Tyreke this past season? Similar style?

sportfireman
07-05-2010, 09:18 PM
Is nice to see so many people jumping in his band wagon, I think that Im not as crazy as some people thought I was when I said that the pacers drafted him to be the point guard of the future.

I for one said after he was drafted that this why he prob was drated, he reminds me of a R. Westbrook type pg ........... pg for future idk??????? PG for now definitely yes. Thats why the Pacers haven't went after a pg they wanted to see what we had in Lance... IMO.

odeez
07-05-2010, 10:02 PM
Good to see this thread wasn't total BS when I posted it. I know it's only one game into Summer League, but Lance showed us something today.

Kemo
07-05-2010, 10:32 PM
I've been watching a lot of video on him. I've watched a lot of video on Tyreke Evans to try to compare the two. Lance to me seems to be on that level.

I believe with the right coach that he could be an all star point gaurd. He has handles and vision. His cross-over was at least effective at the college level.

I saw in those videos a natural abillity to create. When have the Pacers had this type of talent?

The hype surrounding "Born Ready" has probably gotten to me. But I have tried not to like the kid. Sure he may not be as well spoken as we would like our multi-million $ players to be he in Pacers-nation. And he may lack the fundamentals we prefer as well. I just can't get over the unique abilty he has to get to the rim (especially in the fast break).

Until Lance gives me a reason not to be, I'm really excited about his future here as a Pacer. And I'm really hoping he turns out to be a point gaurd.


This post bears repeating ...

+100 FTW ...





.

cdash
07-05-2010, 10:37 PM
I couldn't be more excited about this guy. I still don't think he is a PG, just like Tyreke Evans isn't a PG. But he is showing that he can handle the ball well enough to eat some minutes at the position.

Kemo
07-05-2010, 10:37 PM
Why not give the kid a shot at it? Let him play significant minutes the first half of the season backing up TJ, who would start. Split the numbers where he consistently get half a game and don't waver, regardless of the score or record. Why not? The kid has all of the talent in the world.

This may kick that old knock on the kid saying that he has an ego a mile wide and does not work together well on a team. If the kid does poorly he could be a good SG in the rotation. If he does well, trade TJ at the deadline and make AJ the starter and Lance the back-up that logs serious minutes.



+1

Also to add...

What if ....


WHAT IF ....

Lightning strikes , and Lance becomes a franchise player like a Jordan , Kobe or a LeBron ??

Things like this DO happen ..

Ya never know ..

I would be happy with having a good , true starting calibur player ...

But Like I said Ya Never Know.....


and keep the words "WHAT IF?" in the back of your mind , and enjoy the ride ...






.

xBulletproof
07-05-2010, 10:44 PM
Wow. This is going to be a long and rough ride back to reality for some people. Whew.

Kemo
07-05-2010, 10:50 PM
lol.. What , can't a person dream? ...



I AM trying for sunshiner award next year... shhhhhh


But ya , seriously someone has to do it , when times seem dark ..

There isn't a more deserving franchise than the Pacers .. We desperately NEED that lighning strike...





...

KennerLeaguer
07-05-2010, 11:59 PM
the only difference between tyreke evans and lance stephenson is mentality...you teach lance how to become a team player without the enormous ego, then there's no reason he can't become a similar player. he sure as hell has the talent for it...

That suggests Tyreke is a team player as well without his own character issues. :) Tyreke hasn't been as stupid or as self destructive as Lance, but I'll wait awhile before giving him any benefiit of the doubt of being a true team oriented guy.

JBones19
07-06-2010, 12:28 AM
That suggests Tyreke is a team player as well without his own character issues. :) Tyreke hasn't been as stupid or as self destructive as Lance, but I'll wait awhile before giving him any benefiit of the doubt of being a true team oriented guy.

I may be missing something, but has Lance done anything illegal or destructive other than grab a girls butt in high school?

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-06-2010, 02:02 AM
I may be missing something, but has Lance done anything illegal or destructive other than grab a girls butt in high school?

He got into an altercation with a childhood friend and teammate also while in high school. Nothing really that uncommon.

I think it's really important to remember he's 19 years old. He made mistakes. He's going to make some more. That doesn't make him a terrible person, it makes him human.

I'm just glad we're going to get the chance to watch this kid possibly grow into something special right in front of our eyes.

ChicagoJ
07-06-2010, 06:44 PM
Wow. This is going to be a long and rough ride back to reality for some people. Whew.

Maybe we should find a spot for the "SUMMER LEAGUE CHAMPS 4EVER!!" banner next to the "61 WINS!! WOOT!" banner.

Wake me up when he plays in a regular season game. I'll start forming my opinion then.

btowncolt
07-06-2010, 06:45 PM
Maybe we should find a spot for the "SUMMER LEAGUE CHAMPS 4EVER!!" banner next to the "61 WINS!! WOOT!" banner.

Wake me up when he plays in a regular season game. I'll start forming my opinion then.

If he does an adequate job pointing in the next game, I'm sold.

ChicagoJ
07-06-2010, 06:50 PM
If he does an adequate job pointing in the next game, I'm sold.

classic.

:applaud:

dohman
07-06-2010, 06:55 PM
What about the aj price man crush?

timid
07-06-2010, 07:51 PM
man crush lol...who has a man crush on AJ Price and why?

pacers74
07-06-2010, 08:12 PM
If AJ comes back and plays like he did when he got extended playing time, he and Lance could be quite a combo.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 08:15 PM
Lance Stephenson's name is involved in 5 thread titles on the front page. He looked great in the 1st summer league game but lets not get carried away thinking this guy is the answer to all our PG problems. 2nd round pg's normally dont lead teams to the playoffs ever.

Im rooting for Lance but Im not drinking the kool aid

Anthem
07-06-2010, 09:17 PM
Lance Stephenson's name is involved in 5 thread titles on the front page.
Not much else to talk about.

Justin Tyme
07-06-2010, 10:02 PM
If he does an adequate job pointing in the next game, I'm sold.


If he does an adequate job pointing, I want him when hunting season starts.

odeez
07-06-2010, 10:22 PM
Why does everyone keep saying don't carried away about Lance? Isn't getting carried away part of the fun of all this, dreaming about a player being the answer to our prayers is something we all do from time to time. I get the feeling some people love coming down on those who get carried away. It's easy to get carried away, but it is also easy to be negative. I'll be the first to say, this is going to take time (Lance playing the point). But so far he has played great for a rookie who had one year of college ball. Of course the regular season is different thing entirely. This is Summer League and those of us on the Lance bandwagon should all be use caution when we anoint him the answer at the point. I never intend to say he was the answer at the point, but I had no problem posing the question. So far his passing is his best attribute. Also he gets the ball up the court in a hurry and can get to the rim when he wants, which he needs to do more of. He certainly will make the team. And I hope to see him get minutes in the regular season, how many I don't know, but I already can't wait for training camp to start and Summer League isn't even over yet.

gopacers1179
07-06-2010, 10:27 PM
Good post Odeez. I did mention earlier itt to not get carried away about Lance. Im more of a "lets wait and see" guy instead of clinging onto someone so soon. Like I mentioned before, Im rooting for Lance. It'd be awesome to get some real value out of him coming from the 2nd round.

ChicagoJ
07-06-2010, 11:36 PM
Why does everyone keep saying don't carried away about Lance?

It's July 6th, that's why.

I'll wait until he's actually made the roster and gets into a regular season game before I start forming an opinion either way.

ChicagoJ
07-06-2010, 11:37 PM
If he does an adequate job pointing, I want him when hunting season starts.

Are you saying you don't like point guards that can point?

:eek:

Day-V
07-06-2010, 11:39 PM
Why does everyone keep saying don't carried away about Lance?

Because they're all cynical old farts who love making other people miserable....

But in all seriousness, it IS relatively early to be proclaiming him the next best thing. With that said, I still personally find it totally acceptable for folks to get excited about him.

odeez
07-07-2010, 12:17 AM
Because they're all cynical old farts who love making other people miserable....

But in all seriousness, it IS relatively early to be proclaiming him the next best thing. With that said, I still personally find it totally acceptable for folks to get excited about him.

It is indeed early, I hope I am not coming across like it's not. I am just excited about the possibilities that Lance brings to the team and the rotation next season. I am fully aware of the pitfalls of falling in love with any player. But for a second round pick he's a steal!

odeez
07-07-2010, 12:24 AM
It's July 6th, that's why.

I'll wait until he's actually made the roster and gets into a regular season game before I start forming an opinion either way.

Yeah, that is probably the wiser way to go and I totally respect that approach. But I am willing to say I can pretty much guarantee he will make the team. Watching him play is a breath of fresh air and he brings something to the team that we don't have now. I know it's only July 6th...

pizza guy
07-07-2010, 01:37 AM
It's July 7th now. Can I be over-excited about Lance Stephenson yet? Is it still to early to proclaim him the next Bird-Jordan-Magic-Kobe-LeBron combination of awesomeness? I need to know when that will be OK, because I'm excited to do that. Is it too early to be excited about possibly being excited in the future?

OK, now I'm starting to annoy myself.

Lance looks really good, and I'm hoping that he makes the team and gives us something to look forward to other than NBA Jam with Granger and Dunleavy. Lance obviously brings something to the (Summer League) team that we haven't had for awhile. We're all searching for PG X, and the idea that we drafted him at pick 40 is outlandish but exciting at the same time.

It's fair to say that we all want to be excited about him, some of us are more cautious and others more adventurous.

--pizza

McKeyFan
07-07-2010, 07:52 AM
I need to know when that will be OK, because I'm excited to do that. Is it too early to be excited about possibly being excited in the future?

Dude, it's a message board. You can voice any opinion you want.

Others may criticize you. And they may be right or wrong.

FREEDOM!!!!

pizza guy
07-07-2010, 08:07 AM
LoL, I shoulda put that in green. :p

ChicagoJ
07-07-2010, 11:21 AM
Lance looks really good,

Playing against who?


It's fair to say that we all want to be excited about him, some of us are more cautious and others more adventurous.

Nah. Its okay to be optimistic that he might be able to bring a skillset that the Pacers need. Its not a good idea to base that off an evaluation of him playing against other summer league players, individual workouts, or even playing against college players.

That's not being "cautious". I'm also optimistic that when he gets onto the court in an actual regular season game that I'll like what I see. But I'm not willing to base that optimism on a performance in the summer league.

Let's not forget, David Harrison was an absolute beast in the summer league. The entire optimism around Jon Bender was the way he dominated other high school all-Americans. Even Jamison Brewer looked to be a competent NBA point guard in the summer league.

Cautious would be, "He looks great in the summer leagues, but I don't know if he'll be any good during a regular season game."

But there are plenty of us that are going to stay on the sidelines and not form any opinion until the real games start. (Although I must be careful because I don't think the real NBA games start until mid-April.)

Evan_The_Dude
07-07-2010, 08:18 PM
Either they're hoping he'll be a 2nd round steal ala Gilbert Arenas and be a shoot first point guard, or they're at least hoping he can provide the scoring punch that Marquis Daniels used to give us when he was healthy. If HE feels that he can be an All-Star in this league and he's willing to work hard enough to get there, then that's damn good for him and for us. We need somebody with that confidence and swagger. I get the feeling that at least this is one player that won't be scared to take the last shot and will be quite confident that he can make it.

I'm not big on praising a player for dominating a summer league game or 2. However when you have people in the media praising his abilities and, when other top players [Kevin Durant] are saying "This guy can flat out ball" then I feel there's a little more reason to be excited. I am more excited about Stephenson than I am about George at this point.

Putnam
07-07-2010, 10:42 PM
Aw, go ahead and get excited.

Though the world is so full of a number things,
I know we should all be as happy as
But are we?
No, definitely no, positively no.
Decidedly no. Mm mm.


.

PaceBalls
07-07-2010, 10:54 PM
If you guys thought Runi had a hard time bringing the ball up the court, Lance is going to give you fits. I don't mind him having the ball alot when he is playing... as a shooting guard... but he should not be our PG. We need someone with good enough handles to be able to beat a press, let alone one quick defender, or it's going to be non-stop 8 second calls and turnovers before he gets past the halfcourt line.

Ozwalt72
07-07-2010, 11:02 PM
One thing I don't like from watching Lance play is how right hand dominant his dribbling is. He's testing his defender with stutter steps and such, and not once does he go to his left hand. With that said, when he uses it his crossover is nice.

I like his potential as a COMBO guard. His skill set is in scoring the ball, but he has shown some very nice passing skills. Regardless, he's giving me something to think about leading in to the regular season. If he makes the team, the time he receives on the court will be interesting at least.

No expectations at this point. But I AM developing an idea of what kind of basketball player he is. Not how good he is or can be.

BlueNGold
07-07-2010, 11:11 PM
If you guys thought Runi had a hard time bringing the ball up the court, Lance is going to give you fits. I don't mind him having the ball alot when he is playing... as a shooting guard... but he should not be our PG. We need someone with good enough handles to be able to beat a press, let alone one quick defender, or it's going to be non-stop 8 second calls and turnovers before he gets past the halfcourt line.

It will be interesting to see how things work out for him at the point. I think he has a bit better handle than Quis...and a bigger, stronger body to fend off PG's attempting to steal the ball...so it might be possible for him to run the point. I have only seen parts of the games so far...and honestly, I don't really see a PG. IMO, he is very much a combo guard who is excellent at getting to the rim and scoring in traffic.

BTW, I have trashed this pick but I get why people are excited about his skills. I know others have compared him to Tyreke Evans...and that may be a better comparison...but I see a little Baron Davis in him, without the perimeter game...and without as developed PG skills.

pizza guy
07-07-2010, 11:34 PM
Playing against who?

Nah. Its okay to be optimistic that he might be able to bring a skillset that the Pacers need. Its not a good idea to base that off an evaluation of him playing against other summer league players, individual workouts, or even playing against college players.

That's not being "cautious". I'm also optimistic that when he gets onto the court in an actual regular season game that I'll like what I see. But I'm not willing to base that optimism on a performance in the summer league.

Let's not forget, David Harrison was an absolute beast in the summer league. The entire optimism around Jon Bender was the way he dominated other high school all-Americans. Even Jamison Brewer looked to be a competent NBA point guard in the summer league.

Cautious would be, "He looks great in the summer leagues, but I don't know if he'll be any good during a regular season game."

But there are plenty of us that are going to stay on the sidelines and not form any opinion until the real games start. (Although I must be careful because I don't think the real NBA games start until mid-April.)

Maybe I misunderstood my post, but I think we're saying the same thing, lol.

From what we've seen in summer league, he does look like a good ball player. Of course, it is summer league, so you can't say he's going to be an All Star, lead the Pacers to the playoffs, or really even make the team. What you can do is get excited about a player that may be able to make a difference, or may not. If you like a guy, you jump on his bandwagon and hope he makes the team so we can see him in the regular season. Then, you have to make another judgment of the player when playing against real NBA players, and it may be entirely different. You said you're optimistic that you'll like what you see when he plays real NBA games, but you're not going to base it on summer league or college play. So, what are you going to base it on?

Like I said, I think we're both saying essentially the same thing. That being that it's summer league and it doesn't mean anything beyond whether or not he makes the team.

--pizza

Naptown_Seth
07-07-2010, 11:47 PM
Because they're all cynical old farts who love making other people miserable....

But in all seriousness, it IS relatively early to be proclaiming him the next best thing. With that said, I still personally find it totally acceptable for folks to get excited about him.
I may be cynical and old, but I wear my James White, Sean Green and Fred Hoiberg jerseys with pride.

The list of guys that people get excited about after 3 summer league games and go on to be awesome is a hundred times smaller than the list of guys that go on to do basically zip.



It's July 7th now. Can I be over-excited about Lance Stephenson yet?
Go ahead and buy your Xmas presents now too, they'll both be relevant around the same time.



The good news is - he doesn't suck. That's the real concern you have to bring to summer games. Can the guy at least live in the league a little bit or will he get destroyed.

jeffg-body
07-07-2010, 11:56 PM
I see this as that Lance will be a potentially good player for the P's in the future. Whether that is at SG or PG is the question, to me it doesn't matter. We need talent in a lot of different areas and we got talent in this kid that needs to develop.

Speed
07-08-2010, 12:04 AM
I'm pleased Lance is 19 and already shows some signs, same with George, just turning 20. Usually it's guys who come from big time programs and coaching that you think have already made a good start into tapping potential. Now I see a good starting point for a couple of guys who have some beginnings of nice skilsets and abilities. So we'll see. I like Lance's swagger/pep in his step. I like George's silky smoothness. A couple of intangible tangibles, I guess.

So my optimism stems from the idea they have alot more to learn since they are so young, so therefore the upside is possible, imo.

Of course, how hard they work has the most to do with it. I hope Roy gets in both their ears.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 10:26 AM
One thing I don't like from watching Lance play is how right hand dominant his dribbling is.

-snip-

I like his potential as a COMBO guard. His skill set is in scoring the ball, but he has shown some very nice passing skills.

-snip-

No expectations at this point. But I AM developing an idea of what kind of basketball player he is. Not how good he is or can be.

I refuse to watch silly summer-league games, so I have only one opinion to offer: sounds like Fred Jones with better size. Especially if he's not particuarly good and handling the ball with both hands (a weakness which ultimately set Fred's ceiling pretty low.)

Speed
07-08-2010, 10:29 AM
I refuse to watch silly summer-league games, so I have only one opinion to offer: sounds like Fred Jones with better size. Especially if he's not particuarly good and handling the ball with both hands (a weakness which ultimately set Fred's ceiling pretty low.)

10 times better ball handler, not an elite athlete like Freddy, seems to have an edge to him. Really not comparable in any way, game wise.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 10:33 AM
You said you're optimistic that you'll like what you see when he plays real NBA games, but you're not going to base it on summer league or college play. So, what are you going to base it on?

Like I said, I think we're both saying essentially the same thing. That being that it's summer league and it doesn't mean anything beyond whether or not he makes the team.

--pizza

I'm basing it on the fact that they thought enough of his upside to draft him over De'Sean Butler, who I think will make a very good pro when his knee heals and was probably the lowest-risk second-rounder I've seen in years. Or let's put it this way, he needs to have a better NBA career than Butler has or PD will have another poster *****ing constantly about how the Pacers passed over a particular player in the draft.

PS, I don't think summer league matters much in who makes the final roster. More than 1/2 the summer league players won't even make it to training camp, and a very, very small percentage of non-first-rounders in summer camp will make a team's final roster.

History and the odds just show that during the boring part of the offseason, people waste a lot of time following the summer league and lose track of the wide gap between a summer league player and an actual NBA player.

Sorry if I misread your post.

graphic-er
07-08-2010, 10:34 AM
Where is this opinion that Lance can't handle the ball well? I've watched the games, this kid is torching the opposition and getting any shot he wants. Not afraid of traffic either. At the age of 19, his handles are pretty damn good.

I'd like to see the coaching staff limit his shots for todays game. Tell him he only gets 8 shots for the game (2 per qtr or something), and that he must focus on getting more assists than points. Just to see how well he can dial in the court vision and getting other guys involved.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 10:38 AM
10 times better ball handler, not an elite athlete like Freddy, seems to have an edge to him. Really not comparable in any way, game wise.

I wouldn't call Freddie an elite athlete, and the previous poster just said he couldn't handle the ball with his left hand. I'm just pointing out that we've had other players with similar "weaknesses" as reported by the other poster. Fred was a first-rounder in an awful draft (and was really a reach to take him as early as we did) but probably would have been a #40 or so pick in a normal quality draft.

Actually, he probably sounds more like Flip Murray, and similar to Flip he could also have a 20-30 game "flash in the pan" before everyone figures out to overplay the right hand and that simple defensive adjustment renders him to the bench.

Mr. Sobchak
07-08-2010, 10:44 AM
I wouldn't call Freddie an elite athlete, and the previous poster just said he couldn't handle the ball with his left hand. I'm just pointing out that we've had other players with similar "weaknesses" as reported by the other poster. Fred was a first-rounder in an awful draft (and was really a reach to take him as early as we did) but probably would have been a #40 or so pick in a normal quality draft.

Actually, he probably sounds more like Flip Murray, and similar to Flip he could also have a 20-30 game "flash in the pan" before everyone figures out to overplay the right hand and that simple defensive adjustment renders him to the bench.

After watching all three games I disagree that he doesn't handle the ball well with his left hand...He can get anywhere he wants to on the court with ease..I think you can see that by how well he is shooting the ball. I know its summer league but the guy can get to the basket pretty much whenever he wants...

Anthem
07-08-2010, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't call Freddie an elite athlete, and the previous poster just said he couldn't handle the ball with his left hand. I'm just pointing out that we've had other players with similar "weaknesses" as reported by the other poster.
Jay, there's really no comparison between Lance and Freddy.

I'm not on the bandwagon here, I'm just saying what you'd know if you watched the games.

Heck, the size difference alone is significant. Fred's perfect size for a point guard. Lance is the perfect size for a shooting guard.

Fred played point every year at summer league, and he never looked half as good as Lance did on his worst day.

bphil
07-08-2010, 10:55 AM
I don't know if he's our PG of the future, but I think we can already say that he's a better option that TJ Ford...

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 10:58 AM
Jay, there's really no comparison between Lance and Freddy.

I'm not on the bandwagon here, I'm just saying what you'd know if you watched the games.

Heck, the size difference alone is significant. Fred's perfect size for a point guard. Lance is the perfect size for a shooting guard.

Fred played point every year at summer league, and he never looked half as good as Lance did on his worst day.

Dude, the sun is out, the temperature is nice, and its summer league, which is probably not even as good of a barometer as the developmental league. I'm not watching it. I'm just pointing out careers of NBA players with similar weaknesses. That's all.

McKeyFan
07-08-2010, 11:05 AM
I refuse to watch silly summer-league games, so I have only one opinion to offer: sounds like Fred Jones with better size. Especially if he's not particuarly good and handling the ball with both hands (a weakness which ultimately set Fred's ceiling pretty low.)

Lance Stephenson is to Fred Jones as Elvis's sideburns are to Jim O'Brien's.

RonArtest
07-08-2010, 11:10 AM
If Tyreke Evans can play the NBA point so too can Lance.

btowncolt
07-08-2010, 11:11 AM
Jay's still mad about the Pooh Richardson trade.

Evan_The_Dude
07-08-2010, 11:55 AM
Have we forgotten about A.J. Price? I remember some saying he looked like our future point guard. If he gets healed up and works hard on his game, I think he has that potential. He's proven a lot in actual NBA game experience after all.

McKeyFan
07-08-2010, 12:09 PM
Have we forgotten about A.J. Price? I remember some saying he looked like our future point guard. If he gets healed up and works hard on his game, I think he has that potential. He's proven a lot in actual NBA game experience after all.

I'm an AJ fan. I think he had about 50 percent chance of being our starter pg before the injury. Now I give him 25 percent.

Anthem
07-08-2010, 12:47 PM
Dude, the sun is out, the temperature is nice, and its summer league, which is probably not even as good of a barometer as the developmental league. I'm not watching it. I'm just pointing out careers of NBA players with similar weaknesses. That's all.
I'm not saying you should watch it. I'm just telling you that Stephenson and Fred Jones are in no way similar players.

naptownmenace
07-08-2010, 12:47 PM
Fred Jones never hit 75% of his shots and he never had the post moves that Lance has. In fact Freddy (and I liked him a lot) could only drive right to left and often struggled to finish in traffic. Lance is the total opposite.

Ultimately, I don't see Lance as a Point Guard. I think his best position is SG. He might end up being our PG because he's so good with the ball in his hands but that doesn't mean he's a true PG.

Then again, I look forward to seeing what he can do when passing to guys that really know how to score like Granger, Murphy, and Dunleavy.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 01:04 PM
I'm not saying you should watch it. I'm just telling you that Stephenson and Fred Jones are in no way similar players.

You're missing my point. Its better to lump players together based on similar weaknesses than strengths. Or should we lump Jon Bender and Michael Jordan together since they could both score in McDonald's all-Star games?

I have no opinion on his ability to use either hand against actual NBA defenses. And neither does anybody else on PD. I'm not completely sure the Pacers' own management/ coaches have an opinion yet about what he can do against bona fide NBA competition -- they haven't seen it either.

But if all you have to do overplay his right hand, his ceiling is Fred Jones and Flip Murray and Sean Greene. That's higher than Jamison Brewer's ceiling, so it still counts for something.

I'm not talking about "style of play".

Kuq_e_Zi91
07-08-2010, 01:15 PM
If you overplay him to one side, doesn't matter which side, he'll kill you. He'll sense what you're doing, and attack what you're giving him. Actually, I think he would take it personally like you're disrespecting him. Sort of like, "You don't think I can go left. Watch me."

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 01:20 PM
If you overplay him to one side, doesn't matter which side, he'll kill you. He'll sense what you're doing, and attack what you're giving him. Actually, I think he would take it personally like you're disrespecting him. Sort of like, "You don't think I can go left. Watch me."

And for some players, that's easier said than done.

Anthem
07-08-2010, 01:22 PM
You're missing my point. Its better to lump players together based on similar weaknesses than strengths.
That's fine. But you haven't actually made a case that Freddy's weaknesses and Lance's are all that similar.

Sure, Lance favors his right, but even right now I'd trust him more to go left than I would Fred Jones. And that's something that I expect to quickly improve.

Besides, Freddy's weakness wasn't "can't go left." It was "can't finish on the drive." Nothing suggests that Lance has a similar weakness.

Mr. Sobchak
07-08-2010, 01:24 PM
Lance is also only 19 years old...Even if his off hand dribbling isn't as strong he's got plenty of time to work on it.

Sookie
07-08-2010, 02:05 PM
Have we forgotten about A.J. Price? I remember some saying he looked like our future point guard. If he gets healed up and works hard on his game, I think he has that potential. He's proven a lot in actual NBA game experience after all.

I actually think Stephenson and Price would play well together. Price could find him in good spots, and he'd give Stephenson a person to kick out to when driving to the basket. It'll also be nice to have to fiesty guards.

Granted, I still like the Rush/Price backcourt. I thought they did well together.

Kamiyohk
07-08-2010, 02:17 PM
I am still concern about his attitude.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HscR3v53E3I

Kemo
07-08-2010, 02:59 PM
I refuse to watch silly summer-league games, so I have only one opinion to offer: sounds like Fred Jones with better size. Especially if he's not particuarly good and handling the ball with both hands (a weakness which ultimately set Fred's ceiling pretty low.)

No offense, as I value your opinion like everyone else on here , but I don't see how you can have much , if anything to offer in an opinion of what he is showing us so far if you refuse to watch "silly" SL games ..


That's like me making an observation about something I have never seen..
I know it's a stupid comparison, but thats similar to me saying ..

MEH on a 2013 Camaro ..


But wouldn't it be pretty stupid for me to say ...


"Ya I have seen concept drawings, but thats it ..
I refuse to read those silly spec sheets and check out the actual design pictures...
sounds like it will look like the 2009 Camaro with a faster engine"





.
.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 04:18 PM
No offense, as I value your opinion like everyone else on here , but I don't see how you can have much , if anything to offer in an opinion of what he is showing us so far if you refuse to watch "silly" SL games ..


That's like me making an observation about something I have never seen..
I know it's a stupid comparison, but thats similar to me saying ..

MEH on a 2013 Camaro ..


But wouldn't it be pretty stupid for me to say ...


"Ya I have seen concept drawings, but thats it ..
I refuse to read those silly spec sheets and check out the actual design pictures...
sounds like it will look like the 2009 Camaro with a faster engine"





.
.

I was just responding to the post that we've seen a few "can't go left" players before by providing examples. I have no opinion as to whether he can or not. I've tried to make that clear.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 04:22 PM
Besides, Freddy's weakness wasn't "can't go left." It was "can't finish on the drive."

Now you're confusing Travis Best and Fred. Even Roy Munson would agree that Freddie couldn't go left. Fred was an average finisher, although he tried to dunk too often when a layup would have done the job.

I didn't worry about Fred's ability to finish his own drive at the rim. I can't think of a single time he got to the rim going left. I did worry if the defense collapsed that he couldn't find the seam and make the pass into the soft spot on the defense. But during the same play, I would also worry about Foster's abilty to protect his own face and actually catch the basketball, too. THAT's when it became a low-percentage play.

naptownmenace
07-08-2010, 06:14 PM
Now you're confusing Travis Best and Fred. Even Roy Munson would agree that Freddie couldn't go left. Fred was an average finisher, although he tried to dunk too often when a layup would have done the job.

I didn't worry about Fred's ability to finish his own drive at the rim. I can't think of a single time he got to the rim going left. I did worry if the defense collapsed that he couldn't find the seam and make the pass into the soft spot on the defense. But during the same play, I would also worry about Foster's abilty to protect his own face and actually catch the basketball, too. THAT's when it became a low-percentage play.



You haven't seen him play and admit you don't know if he can "go left" because you haven't seen him play. Still you compare him to Fred Jones. I think you're overreaching here. It's like you're determined to make a point when you don't really have one.

Or maybe it's just a little odd because most people make comparisons of people they have actually observed play.

With that said, I'll just add that unlike Freddy (even in just comparing Summer League play) Lance is more versatile when attacking the basket.

Swish
07-08-2010, 06:23 PM
This whole last part of this topic I have been thinking of Fred Hoiburg instead of Fred Jones. I was a little lost, to be sure.

MLB007
07-08-2010, 07:42 PM
This whole last part of this topic I have been thinking of Fred Hoiburg instead of Fred Jones. I was a little lost, to be sure.

it makes as much sense that way.....:D

Slick Pinkham
07-08-2010, 07:53 PM
For the last two summer league games, our pg of the future has the same number of assists as me.

Hicks
07-08-2010, 08:33 PM
That's one way of saying it.

Another is to mention that he set people up more than a few times in game 3, but people were throwing up bricks left and right when he did, as well as that he only played a few minutes in game 4 due to his thigh getting kneed early on.

I will say the truly daming thing was he had 4 turnovers in those 4 minutes he played today.

But the lack of assists the past two games is misleading.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2010, 08:58 PM
Still you compare him to Fred Jones.

I'm not comparing him to Fred Jones, Flip Murray or Sean Greene.

I'm just saying that we have appropriate benchmarks for players that couldn't use thier off hand very well. And it is not "point guard of the future!!", it is "well, that was fun while it lasted. sigh."

Yeesh.

MLB007
07-08-2010, 10:00 PM
For the last two summer league games, our pg of the future has the same number of assists as me.

And has thrown some REALLY bad passes.
And been knocked out of the game 3 or 4 different times.
And shows some pretty heavy feet on the defensive end.

Hicks
07-08-2010, 10:38 PM
Regarding leaving the game as a criticism, please. 0% his fault he got clocked in the head/neck twice yesterday and got kneed in the thigh in traffic today. That's just a silly thing to criticize him for.