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View Full Version : Expect Pacers to make a run at Jordan Farmar



Psyren
06-30-2010, 08:33 PM
Per Mike Wells on Twitter:


LA Times reports Lakers do not make a qualifying offer to PG Jordan Farmar. Expect the Pacers to pursue him.


Mike Wells Twitter (http://twitter.com/wells222)

Kegboy
06-30-2010, 08:35 PM
Don't mention the '06 draft, don't mention the '06 draft, don't mention the '06 draft.

:pissed:

duke dynamite
06-30-2010, 08:35 PM
Sure, why not? I said on twitter that obtaining him would solve the PG situation for at least a year.

woowoo
06-30-2010, 08:39 PM
ughhhh....

imawhat
06-30-2010, 08:39 PM
Sure, why not? I said on twitter that obtaining him would solve the PG situation for at least a year.

No it wouldn't. I like Farmar but there's a reason the Lakers aren't making a qualifying offer, and it ain't the luxury tax.

Day-V
06-30-2010, 08:40 PM
No it wouldn't. I like Farmar but there's a reason the Lakers aren't making a qualifying offer, and it ain't the luxury tax.

I'd like to see how he does outside of the Triangle. The Triangle just doesn't really seem PG-friendly.


Hell.....maybe we should try it. Couldn't hurt.

pwee31
06-30-2010, 08:44 PM
I've liked Farmar for a while. Wanted him in the '06 draft.

Perhaps we should merge this with the other thread

odeez
06-30-2010, 08:44 PM
I wouln't mind us getting him, but he certainly doesn't excite me or do I think he is the splash we need to make at the position.

BornReady
06-30-2010, 08:45 PM
do you guys think he'd be a better decision than felton?

duke dynamite
06-30-2010, 08:46 PM
No it wouldn't. I like Farmar but there's a reason the Lakers aren't making a qualifying offer, and it ain't the luxury tax.
I'd rather have him as our starting PG than TJ effing Ford.

pwee31
06-30-2010, 08:48 PM
do you guys think he'd be a better decision than felton?

Not sure about a better fit, but I'm sure he'd be cheaper, and can do similar things even if not a starter, he'd be nice as a backup, and would likely get more minutes as our backup then elsewhere

Day-V
06-30-2010, 08:48 PM
The Lakers could throw Jeanie Buss out there at the Point and still win 50 games a season.

Taterhead
06-30-2010, 08:50 PM
I like him but it's hard to picture him leaving LA. He is just about to take over for Fisher if he can stay around a few more years, which is his dream to be the Lakers starting PG. Plus he is a Cali kid and has never left the area. It would be a good pick up if we can swing it though.

odeez
06-30-2010, 08:52 PM
I'd rather have him as our starting PG than TJ effing Ford.

That's for sure!

count55
06-30-2010, 08:59 PM
I'd rather have him as our starting PG than TJ effing Ford.

Of course, most of us preferred TJ Ford over Jamaal ****ing Tinsley at one point in time.

pacers74
06-30-2010, 09:00 PM
Can someone tell me what the salary cap is going to be and what are salary is right now, so I know how much we can offer a free agent.

Really?
06-30-2010, 09:04 PM
I like him better than felton for our offense personally, I just wonder how much they would have to pay him and how long the contract would be for.... It is really crazy how much some players who don't really have to do much get paid in the NBA... I hate when teams over pay players...It often really hurts the teams in the future.

Day-V
06-30-2010, 09:05 PM
Can someone tell me what the salary cap is going to be and what are salary is right now, so I know how much we can offer a free agent.

The NBA Salary Cap for this next season is $56,000,000, roughly.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5099980

Right now we are actually over the cap, at around $65,000,000.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/story.asp?story_id=9198

Really?
06-30-2010, 09:05 PM
Can someone tell me what the salary cap is going to be and what are salary is right now, so I know how much we can offer a free agent.

cap is like 52 we are at like 66 or something...

BornReady
06-30-2010, 09:06 PM
I doubt Farmar would be that expensive to attain. Like, I'm fairly certain he'd cost less than Felton would cost us.

pacers74
06-30-2010, 09:07 PM
So we can't sign anyone? How are we going to get under the cap?

Really?
06-30-2010, 09:08 PM
I think there are some kind of mid level exceptions or something...

NapTonius Monk
06-30-2010, 09:09 PM
Of course, most of us prefer TJ Ford over Jamaal ****ing Tinsley still today.
Is how I would have put that if I'd written it.

tadscout
06-30-2010, 09:09 PM
So we can't sign anyone? How are we going to get under the cap?

LT cap is all we have to stay below... we'd sign players with exceptions or a S&T.

count55
06-30-2010, 09:10 PM
Can someone tell me what the salary cap is going to be and what are salary is right now, so I know how much we can offer a free agent.

If we sign Paul George, we will be almost exactly at the Luxury Tax. Sign either or both of the 2nd rounders, and we're over the Tax.

The Pacers - Bird, Simon - have repeatedly said that they will not pay the tax.

We have the ability to offer a Free Agent up to the full MLE, or about $5.8mm, however, if we seek to avoid the luxury tax, then we can effectively offer any free agent:

$0

Of course, we have until April of next year to get our payroll under the luxury tax. However, the further over the tax we go, the more likely it is that we will have to complete a trade similar to the one that Utah made last year - where they were forced to package Eric Maynor in order to get OKC to take Harpring's contract and reduce their payroll.

Therefore, I believe that any thought of signing a Free Agent should also consider which asset - Rush, Hansbrough, Hibbert, George, future draft picks - it might possibly cost us down the road.

count55
06-30-2010, 09:11 PM
Is how I would have put that if I'd written it.

Yeah, I considered that.

Sookie
06-30-2010, 09:11 PM
I hope we don't pay too much for him...He's better than Ford, but Price's stats were better, in every area (seriously, higher points, rebounds, assists, Field Goal Percentage, and Free throw percentage..equal blocks and assists) except three point shooting, last season.

Although if we could get rid of Ford, perhaps we could sign some cheap option as a third PG, in case AJ isn't healthy by the begining of the season..and at least our PGs would be extremely cheap..

pwee31
06-30-2010, 09:13 PM
The Lakers don't have any PG under contract for next year Fisher, Farmar and Shannon Brown are all up. They'll likely try to resign Fisher though.

Wonder if they would sign and trade Farmar for Dahntay Jones?

Or could we possibly sign and trade Watson to the Lakers who sign and trade Farmar?

xBulletproof
06-30-2010, 09:13 PM
So we can't sign anyone? How are we going to get under the cap?

Teams that are over the cap by the amount of the mid level exception can use it. What is the mid level exception? It's the ability to use around 6 million dollars to sign players. The MLE can also be used to sign a multi year contract.

Teams over the cap also have a low level exception which is only available for 1 year signings. I believe it's roughly 1.5 - 2 million.

So we can sign people, they just have to be very cheap. I'm fairly sure all that is correct. It's been a while since I needed to know that information for work.

pacers74
06-30-2010, 09:16 PM
From what was just posted I think we would rather s&t a player we already have under contract like D.Jones rather than having to sign Watson and putting further over the salary cap.

Sookie
06-30-2010, 09:16 PM
Teams that are over the cap by the amount of the mid level exception can use it. What is the mid level exception? It's the ability to use around 6 million dollars to sign players. The MLE can also be used to sign a multi year contract.

Teams over the cap also have a low level exception which is only available for 1 year signings. I believe it's roughly 1.5 - 2 million.

So we can sign people, they just have to be very cheap. I'm fairly sure all that is correct. It's been a while since I needed to know that information for work.

I still suggest getting Diener with the 1.5-2 million for a year. He can handle being backup PG if need be. He knows Jim, knows the team..is cheap..and reliable. I don't expect to need him that much, but he'd be better to have than a free agent rookie PG.

tadscout
06-30-2010, 09:18 PM
If we sign Paul George, we will be almost exactly at the Luxury Tax. Sign either or both of the 2nd rounders, and we're over the Tax.

The Pacers - Bird, Simon - have repeatedly said that they will not pay the tax.

We have the ability to offer a Free Agent up to the full MLE, or about $5.8mm, however, if we seek to avoid the luxury tax, then we can effectively offer any free agent:

$0

Of course, we have until April of next year to get our payroll under the luxury tax. However, the further over the tax we go, the more likely it is that we will have to complete a trade similar to the one that Utah made last year - where they were forced to package Eric Maynor in order to get OKC to take Harpring's contract and reduce their payroll.

Therefore, I believe that any thought of signing a Free Agent should also consider which asset - Rush, Hansbrough, Hibbert, George, future draft picks - it might possibly cost us down the road.

There's also a chance of foresight to dump an expiring for cap room to a team that strikes out in FA and needs to fill out their roster, thus giving us breathing room to use an exception.

1984
06-30-2010, 09:19 PM
LA Times article: http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2010/06/the-lakers-decided-wednesday-not-to-give-restricted-guard-jordan-farmar-a-one-year-3-million-contract-offer--it-means-now.html

Farmar said that he is best suited for an up-tempo offense, and thought that the Indiana Pacers were interested [paraphrased].

On the issue of the LT: I think it will be a non-issue. There are too many loop holes. The Pacers will have plenty of creative options that will allow them to narrowly escape the LT.

Really?
06-30-2010, 09:19 PM
If we sign Paul George, we will be almost exactly at the Luxury Tax. Sign either or both of the 2nd rounders, and we're over the Tax.

The Pacers - Bird, Simon - have repeatedly said that they will not pay the tax.

We have the ability to offer a Free Agent up to the full MLE, or about $5.8mm, however, if we seek to avoid the luxury tax, then we can effectively offer any free agent:

$0

Of course, we have until April of next year to get our payroll under the luxury tax. However, the further over the tax we go, the more likely it is that we will have to complete a trade similar to the one that Utah made last year - where they were forced to package Eric Maynor in order to get OKC to take Harpring's contract and reduce their payroll.

Therefore, I believe that any thought of signing a Free Agent should also consider which asset - Rush, Hansbrough, Hibbert, George, future draft picks - it might possibly cost us down the road.

Do you think that Murphy's expiring Contract and potential contributions to a playoff team would allow us to trade him and get under the cap without compromising any of our other assets?

pacers74
06-30-2010, 09:20 PM
s&t D.Jones or Rush.

Really?
06-30-2010, 09:23 PM
So back to the main question what do you think about Farmer and what kind of contribution do you see him making for our Pacers?

Day-V
06-30-2010, 09:24 PM
So back to the main question what do you think about Farmer and what kind of contribution do you see him making for our Pacers?

Maybe producing at the level of 2005-2006 Anthony Johnson?

Sookie
06-30-2010, 09:25 PM
So back to the main question what do you think about Farmer and what kind of contribution do you see him making for our Pacers?

He'll be better than TJ.

He was inconsistent with LA, but you tend to be when you are a backup PG..I like Brown more, although Farmar certainly has the higher bballIQ

Ozwalt72
06-30-2010, 09:26 PM
The lakers MAY have interest in a wing, but I doubt it. It would be nice if we could ship them Dahntay or Solo and a chunk of cash for a resigned Farmar.

Actually, since the Pacers were supposedly willing to pay 3 mil for a higher pick....I could see them putting that much up for a sign and trade....or the right kind of salary dump. (A little easier for a team to stomach taking on Troy Murphy's contract if they had 3 mil of it paid for)

PacersFan1991
06-30-2010, 09:27 PM
Not a big Farmar fan, but as mentioned, he would be an upgrade over T.J.

Trophy
06-30-2010, 09:30 PM
Free agent wise, I'd be happy with Farmar or Blake.

Pacers2012
06-30-2010, 09:38 PM
Sure, why not? I said on twitter that obtaining him would solve the PG situation for at least a year.

I'm not down with farmar. if the pacers just try get a short fix until february i much rather they look at shaun livingston before farmar. I know he has had injuries but he wont cost much and has big upside if he stays healthy. plus if we got collison or a starting guard he would be an excellent backup.

Day-V
06-30-2010, 09:40 PM
I'm not down with farmar. if the pacers just try get a short fix until february i much rather they look at shaun livingston before farmar. I know he has had injuries but he wont cost much and has big upside if he stays healthy. plus if we got collison or a starting guard he would be an excellent backup.

I have been one of the few on here wanting Livingston as well. If you can't find the PG of the future right now, then sign him on the cheap and see what he can do.

Ozwalt72
06-30-2010, 09:43 PM
Part of me thinks we'll find 2 PGs, and let them battle Price for time. One a higher priced guy, another a lower priced guy with potential. Could that be something like Farmar for 3 mil per for 2 years and Livingston on an unguarantee'd deal with a promise of the chance to start?

Both contracts lower than the cost of the contract Felton will likely get.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 09:49 PM
He is just another temporary PG. With the salary cap issues we have I am ok with the signing. I won't be doing cartwheels, but it is a mild improvement.

pizza guy
06-30-2010, 09:52 PM
s&t D.Jones or Rush.

If we have to trade Rush, LA is the last place I want him going. He could play behind Kobe and learn for a few years, be great off the bench, and maybe unleash his potential within the "winning atmosphere" and good coaching.

As far as Farmar goes, I wanted the Pacers to draft him and I'd be glad to have him here now. We're obviously looking at a S&T deal and would have to send them one of our expiring contracts. If it's TJ, I say do it right away. If it's Dun or Murph, I might be a little more hesitant because they will likely have more value at the trade deadline and could potentially bring back a better PG than Farmar.

I like the way Farmar plays. He's a pass-first, score when you can kind of PG and seems to have decent control when he's on the floor. Of course, playing with Kobe, you have the luxury of not having to be the superstar on the court, but the one setting up the superstar on the court, so you're going to look good by default.

That said, I think he would be a good fit here because he can pass well to the likes of Danny and Roy, and hit a shot when he's open (which, if you didn't know, is what a PG is supposed to do, lol). In my opinion, if we could get him here and burden the Lakers with Ford, Murphy, or DunJr for a year, I'd be all for it.

--pizza

troyc11a
06-30-2010, 09:54 PM
I feel Farmar could be a positive pickup for the following reasons:

1. He's cheap and fits a need!
2. He has 2 rings = helps with culture of team
3. He is only 23 y/o
4. He could be the starting pg this year and if it doesnt work out - a quality back up next year when Tony Parker and Mo Williams hit the open market.

Really, he excites me as much as Lawson, Flynn, Collison, or Felton. All of them are really backups on championship caliber teams and we would have to give up something for them. We give up nothing to sign Farmar. Go for it Larry! Nothing to lose.

TheRifleman51
06-30-2010, 10:31 PM
I am all for going after Farmar i like him better than Blake he's still young i think he is like 24 at most he's played with Champions. Even if it was off the bench i think he could at least help for a couple of years as a starter until we find someone better. lets face it we either can't afford or can't trade for anyone with out blowing up the team so what can we do to put with any kind of skill at the PG

Swish
06-30-2010, 10:34 PM
We aren't doing a S&T for Ford/Dun/Murph. At least not one-for-one. You really want to pay Jordan Farmar the same salary any of those three guys currently makes?? And for more years??

beast23
06-30-2010, 10:40 PM
I'd rather have him as our starting PG than TJ effing Ford.


Of course, most of us preferred TJ Ford over Jamaal ****ing Tinsley at one point in time.

Guess I never paid much attention to our players middle names.

Do any of our other players have effing middle names?

Personally, I sure wish we have Kirk effing Heinrich.

Swish
06-30-2010, 10:42 PM
I'm sure they all have effing middle names.

pwee31
06-30-2010, 10:46 PM
Part of me thinks we'll find 2 PGs, and let them battle Price for time. One a higher priced guy, another a lower priced guy with potential. Could that be something like Farmar for 3 mil per for 2 years and Livingston on an unguarantee'd deal with a promise of the chance to start?

Both contracts lower than the cost of the contract Felton will likely get.

I tend to agree with you on finding 2 point guards. My guess is D.J Augustin will be one of those PGs with Blake, Ridnour or Farmar being the other.

As mentioned in another thread, with the Bobcats being near the cap after the qualifying offer to Tyrus Thomas, I don't think they have enough to offer Felton anything worth his while. I think they let him walk and let another team overpay for him. With Larry Brown liking veterans, I see the Pacers trading Ford for Augustin and Muhammad.

Bobcats get a 1 year veteran PG to start and replace Felton. Pacers get rid of Ford, get a young PG to compete for a starting spot, and get a serviceable backup center in Nazr who will still be insurance to Foster's back and another expiring contract back in return.

I think the Pacers then use all or part of the MLE on Blake, Ridnour or Farmar to compete against Augustin.

The Pacers still have plenty of assets and expiring contracts that can be moved as well.

I personally don't think the Pacers want to trade Murphy. Bird said he was our best player last season during his end of the year presser. We all know O'Brien has a man crush on him, we didn't address that position in the draft, and I doubt we start the season with just Hansbrough, McRoberts, Solo and Foster at that position

tsm612
06-30-2010, 10:47 PM
I'd rather just sign Marcus Williams if he plays well in the summer league.

Sookie
06-30-2010, 10:51 PM
AJ, DJ, and Jordan for PGs..heh..Jim would cry at the lack of vets there..

Kemo
06-30-2010, 10:56 PM
I like Farmar ,and think he would be a good fit here.. I even think it is possible that he could go so far as to averaging 12-14 points and 7 or or 8 assists..
PLUS the fact he is only 23 years old.. and already has 2 championship rings , in which he was Fisher's backup..


The main thing that Farmar brings to this team is playoff and finals experience.... which I really feel is valuable in creating a winning environment..

I know it seems some Lakers fans , seem to not care for him too much , and blame him for Kobe's broken finger ..




excerpt taken from a story I just read at http://www.ocregister.com/sports/finger-255473-bryant-never.html ...




-----------Bryant suffered an avulsion fracture in two places near the tip of the finger on Dec. 11 as he tried to field a low Jordan Farmar pass. Bryant kept playing despite a projection of needing at least six weeks to heal – and he played pretty well. He was the Western Conference Player of the Month for December.-------





Make sure and read some of the reader comments at the bottom ...



I think he would be well worth giving a chance , and once AJ Price comes back , they can battle for the starting spot ..

As others on here have mentioned ...

I also LOVE the idea of somehow signing Shaun Livingston..
IMO he is a very low risk/high reward player whom is trying to prove himself after coming back from that freak injury .. I think if given the chance, Livingston would play out of his mind and MORE than earn what he would be getting paid by us ...













.

ChristianDudley
06-30-2010, 10:57 PM
I really don't know what to expect from Jordan...I don't think that right now he's a starting quality PG that would be suitable for us and I'm not sure if he'll ever be a starting-quality PG. It does sound possible he could turn out to be a greater player than what he already is once he gets out of that triangle offense, but I'm just not sure. I'm still leaning towards being interested more in Raymond Felton in terms of getting a PG out of free-agency.

ChristianDudley
06-30-2010, 10:59 PM
Yeah, I'd probably rather try out Livingston for real cheap than to grab up Farmar.

PacerGuy
06-30-2010, 11:01 PM
IMo he still resigns w/ LA.
He will look, get offers, but LA will match.
(yes I know they don't have the "right" to match, but Farmar will give it to them)

next....

Really?
06-30-2010, 11:02 PM
I am all for going after Farmar i like him better than Blake he's still young i think he is like 24 at most he's played with Champions. Even if it was off the bench i think he could at least help for a couple of years as a starter until we find someone better. lets face it we either can't afford or can't trade for anyone with out blowing up the team so what can we do to put with any kind of skill at the PG

He's 23 and jut slightly older than Price and over a yr younger than Tyler, interesting huh... seems like he has been in the league for a while for some reason

odeez
06-30-2010, 11:06 PM
IMo he still resigns w/ LA.
He will look, get offers, but LA will match.
(yes I know they don't have the "right" to match, but Farmar will give it to them)

next....

Word is the Lakers like Blake, and might be leaning towards going with him.

Day-V
06-30-2010, 11:12 PM
He's 23 and jut slightly older than Price and over a yr younger than Tyler, interesting huh... seems like he has been in the league for a while for some reason

He pulled a Gordon Hayward and came out early when his draft stock was high after that Final Four run in 2006.

Los Angeles
06-30-2010, 11:14 PM
Being smack-dab in the middle of Lakers land, I've seen more of Jordan Farmar than I have of just about any other young PG in the league.

And let me tell you, I very much like what I see. :nod:

pizza guy
06-30-2010, 11:14 PM
We aren't doing a S&T for Ford/Dun/Murph. At least not one-for-one. You really want to pay Jordan Farmar the same salary any of those three guys currently makes?? And for more years??

I didn't say I want to pay Farmar that, I just want to hang one of them around LA's neck. LoL

--pizza

jeffg-body
06-30-2010, 11:23 PM
:angel
Yeah, I'd probably rather try out Livingston for real cheap than to grab up Farmar.

Hell, I would like to have them both in camp somehow. We could let Price rest as long as he needs and have 2 veteran PG players that can change the game with mismatches.

TheRifleman51
06-30-2010, 11:24 PM
He's 23 and jut slightly older than Price and over a yr younger than Tyler, interesting huh... seems like he has been in the league for a while for some reason

it seems like he's been the league for a minute

pacers31tc
06-30-2010, 11:25 PM
Farmar? Really? I don't put Jordan Farmar and solution in any sentence together.

Day-V
06-30-2010, 11:27 PM
Farmar? Really? I don't put Jordan Farmar and solution in any sentence together.

Technically, you just put "Jordan Farmar" and "solution" into a single sentence.

#31MillerTime
06-30-2010, 11:30 PM
I dont really think we should be looking at Jordan Farmar right now I think we could have better choices.

pacers20
06-30-2010, 11:33 PM
like i think we should go after kirk or even nate robinson

15th parallel
06-30-2010, 11:37 PM
IMo he still resigns w/ LA.
He will look, get offers, but LA will match.
(yes I know they don't have the "right" to match, but Farmar will give it to them)

next....

IDK, but I believe he has said that he's not comfortable with the triangle offense. So I believe he is leaning towards playing for other teams who can give him better offers and with a different style of play.

#31MillerTime
06-30-2010, 11:37 PM
like i think we should go after kirk or even nate robinson

Yeah they could help our team a lot especally Robinson with his 3-point shooting ability

Day-V
06-30-2010, 11:39 PM
like i think we should go after kirk or even nate robinson

..........................No thank you.

pacers20
06-30-2010, 11:40 PM
yea but he isnt a pure point gaurd

#31MillerTime
06-30-2010, 11:42 PM
yea but he isnt a pure point gaurd

True. Well I guess we'll find out who Bird really wants soon enough.

Los Angeles
06-30-2010, 11:47 PM
yea but he isnt a pure point gaurd

Sure he is.

Everyone points to Farmar's stats in LA and claim that he didn't meet some kind of potential.

But look at it this way: The point guard under Phil Jackson's triangle is not the source of much of anything. THINK REAL FAST - Who was the PG of the Jordan era bulls? TIME'S UP!

Even under circumstances that would kill the future of any young point guard, Jordan Farmar's minutes and production has been consistent or even increased as the last couple of years have passed.

Look at that championship team - look at the talent on that team! Look at the veteran leadership on that team! Put Jordan Farmar on a building team with players of similar age, and you just might see the Jordan Farmar that a lot of people have been expecting.

imawhat
06-30-2010, 11:48 PM
I think Jordan is a pretty good fit with Indiana, but what concerns me is that he hasn't improved in the past two seasons. I think he's regressed, and I'd go as far as saying he didn't look ready to play this season. I'm not sure if he was out of shape or what, but he wasn't ready.

I haven't looked at his stats, but I'm assuming they've regressed since '07-'08.

He's a good energy guy when he's on and he can play good defense, but he really wasn't showing up last year, on a championship team. Imagine his motivation in January when we're 12-20.

Hicks
06-30-2010, 11:48 PM
I'm all for bringing in Farmar if we can.

pacers20
06-30-2010, 11:49 PM
yea and i think he would thrive in a up tempo style like we run the triangle is a hard offense to learn for a young pg

#31MillerTime
06-30-2010, 11:51 PM
yea and i think he would thrive in a up tempo style like we run the triangle is a hard offense to learn for a young pg

Look for the Pacers to try to run the break as much as they can this year.

pacers20
06-30-2010, 11:52 PM
yes and i hope we are a high flying team cant wait

Day-V
06-30-2010, 11:53 PM
Sure he is.

Everyone points to Farmar's stats in LA and claim that he didn't meet some kind of potential.

But look at it this way: The point guard under Phil Jackson's triangle is not the source of much of anything. THINK REAL FAST - Who was the PG of the Jordan era bulls? TIME'S UP!

Even under circumstances that would kill the future of any young point guard, Jordan Farmar's minutes and production has been consistent or even increased as the last couple of years have passed.

Look at that championship team - look at the talent on that team! Look at the veteran leadership on that team! Put Jordan Farmar on a building team with players of similar age, and you just might see the Jordan Farmar that a lot of people have been expecting.

I believe he was talking about Nate Robinson there, L.A. ;)

#31MillerTime
06-30-2010, 11:54 PM
yes and i hope we are a high flying team cant wait


I believe he was talking about Nate Robinson there, L.A. ;)

We will be as long as we play smart. And yes he was talking about Nate thanks for pointin that out Day-V

Marlin
07-01-2010, 12:07 AM
I'm all for bringing him in and see what he can offer, but can we afford it? I mean, aren't we going in LT land by signing our picks and, supposedly, Farmar?

We'd need to shed salary in some way, from what I understand.

vnzla81
07-01-2010, 12:10 AM
I rather have Watson

tadscout
07-01-2010, 12:12 AM
I rather have Watson

He wants to play for the Lakers...

LAPacer
07-01-2010, 12:14 AM
Most of my friends in LA that are the more die-hard/knowledgeable fans think Farmar is a ballhog and really have wanted him gone for the last couple of years. They liked him his sopohmore season and have soured lately mainly because he never got any better and might have gotten a little worse.

vnzla81
07-01-2010, 12:14 AM
He wants to play for the Lakers...

then sign somebody else, I don't see Farmar as an starter

graphic-er
07-01-2010, 12:23 AM
then sign somebody else, I don't see Farmar as an starter

Yeah all this guy ever did was dribble it up the court and pass it to Kobe, not much chance you can screw that up.

Pacerized
07-01-2010, 01:12 AM
For a pg playing on a team with that kind of talent he should be averaging more the 2 assist in 18 min. of play. No thanks, I'd rather pick up a vet min. player for one more year. I'm really not that concerned with our pg or pf situation. As opportunities come to trade away our expiring players it's possible this team will become even less balanced then it is now. Of course I hope they focus on trading for a pg first. As long as we have a balanced roster to start the 2011 season I'll be happy.

Hicks
07-01-2010, 01:24 AM
For a pg playing on a team with that kind of talent he should be averaging more the 2 assist in 18 min. of play.

Maybe, maybe not. The triangle has the ball OUT of the PG's hands very often.

tadscout
07-01-2010, 01:29 AM
Maybe, maybe not. The triangle has the ball OUT of the PG's hands very often.

Yep, PG's are like QB's... they need a right fit system wise.

Pacers2012
07-01-2010, 01:54 AM
If we have to wait until february to get a good guard in a trade then i'd like to have shaun livingston for the reason he will be cheap and has a big upside. its been a few years since the bad knee injury. with getting him for very little we could add another pg like blake. blake would like to have a shot at starting much like farmar. I'm not sure how price has been rehabing but, he could miss camp. so as of now we have no pg

xtacy
07-01-2010, 02:32 AM
I wouln't mind us getting him, but he certainly doesn't excite me or do I think he is the splash we need to make at the position.

this.

#31MillerTime
07-01-2010, 02:34 AM
Hey guys jus wantin ta tell you to check my new thread out I kinda need some answers.

Swish
07-01-2010, 07:52 AM
Sure he is.

Everyone points to Farmar's stats in LA and claim that he didn't meet some kind of potential.

But look at it this way: The point guard under Phil Jackson's triangle is not the source of much of anything. THINK REAL FAST - Who was the PG of the Jordan era bulls? TIME'S UP!

BJ Armstrong and Ron Harper. :nod:

able
07-01-2010, 07:59 AM
Of course, most of us preferred TJ Ford over Jamaal ****ing Tinsley at one point in time.

But not all, same luggage, nowhere near same league as pg though

bphil
07-01-2010, 08:07 AM
Please, Please Larry... don't sign Farmar. We would undoubtedly overpay for him, and at this point in his career he's a known quantity, and that quantity consists of a guy who couldn't start over an aging Derek Fisher.

The good news is that he's coming from a championship team, and therefore will undoubtedly think he's too good to sign with a rebuilding franchise in a small market. Bullet... dodged.

btowncolt
07-01-2010, 08:16 AM
YES!

Unclebuck
07-01-2010, 08:33 AM
Wow, I'm surprised by many comments in this thread. Let me first say what I posted 24 hours ago before we even knew if he was going to be a free agent. Yes I want Farmar, I have wanted him for a few years.

Do I know Farmar is the answer at point guard? No of course I don't know that. But I know that Watson, Ford, or Blake are not the answer? So why not take a chance on someone who maybe could be a long term solution

For those of you who are looking at Farmar's stats and comparing year to year. I think that is a huge waste of time. Playing with Kobe and in tyhe triangle stats mean nothing.

For those of you who are denigrating him because he couldn't play ahead of Fisher. You must have no knowledge of the Lakers at all and the relationship between Kobe and Fish.

I really think he has a chance to be a starting point guard on a good team. And that is what we need. And if he doesn't work out, if he is not as good as I think he might be, ok, but why not take a chance. (I'm not suggesting trading Granger for him or signing him to a max deal

pacergod2
07-01-2010, 08:37 AM
Quick look at Farmar's skills:

-He is quick with the basketball and likes to push the tempo.
-He has a nice outside shot with some range.
-He is cheaper than just about any other PG option.
-He is solid defensively, but not an electric athlete.
-He is a smart player who commands the offense well when running a team.
-He is all around very solid, but he does not have that exciting potential.
-He would come in and be solid for us at the right price.

I would like to give the kid more playing time here to see what he could do. I would rather grab him than have to pay for a Collison, Augustin, Lawson, etc type of player with current assets.

I like Shaun Livingston for many of the exact same reasons. Farmar is quicker, while Livingston is bigger with a better ability to finish in the lane. Farmar is the better outside shooter. Both solid options for us. I think both would be interested in a one year deal to prove what they can do with playing time, which is the attraction for PGs to our team.

owl
07-01-2010, 08:44 AM
pg2 said..."Re: Expect Pacers to make a run at Jordan Farmar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quick look at Farmar's skills:

-He is quick with the basketball and likes to push the tempo.
-He has a nice outside shot with some range.
-He is cheaper than just about any other PG option.
-He is solid defensively, but not an electric athlete.
-He is a smart player who commands the offense well when running a team.
-He is all around very solid, but he does not have that exciting potential.
-He would come in and be solid for us at the right price.

I would like to give the kid more playing time here to see what he could do. I would rather grab him than have to pay for a Collison, Augustin, Lawson, etc type of player with current assets.

I like Shaun Livingston for many of the exact same reasons. Farmar is quicker, while Livingston is bigger with a better ability to finish in the lane. Farmar is the better outside shooter. Both solid options for us. I think both would be interested in a one year deal to prove what they can do with playing time, which is the attraction for PGs to our team. "

I suspect it will be one of these two when all is said and done. My question is how do the
Pacers sign anyone with out going over the LT? The only way is if they trade salary for less salary or cut Price.

bphil
07-01-2010, 08:46 AM
It's odd how seemingly any PG who might be available and is rumored to be getting looks from the Pacers suddenly becomes the best PG in the association. Come on guys, seriously? Do you really think Jordan Farmar is the solution?

Unclebuck
07-01-2010, 08:49 AM
Quick look at Farmar's skills:

-He is quick with the basketball and likes to push the tempo.
-He has a nice outside shot with some range.
-He is cheaper than just about any other PG option.
-He is solid defensively, but not an electric athlete.
-He is a smart player who commands the offense well when running a team.
-He is all around very solid, but he does not have that exciting potential.
-He would come in and be solid for us at the right price.



I agree with each of your points. I like the pressure he can put on the ballhandler maybe a little more than you do. I saw several times where he was really able to pressure the opponents point guard, in fact I think that is what I liked about him the most. Sure doing that for 10-12 minutes a game is a lot easier than asking him to do it for 35 minutes a night.

I think his biggest weakness is he isn't a great playmaker, he doesn't have that innate point guard ability like a Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson to create for others. But I did see Farmar get to the basket and finish rather well. I also like his three point shooting and his energy.

Just wondering what type of contract he wants.

hans023
07-01-2010, 08:51 AM
Yeah all this guy ever did was dribble it up the court and pass it to Kobe, not much chance you can screw that up.

Come on he did more than that and if given the opportunity I think he would do very well for us.

Unclebuck
07-01-2010, 08:52 AM
It's odd how seemingly any PG who might be available and is rumored to be getting looks from the Pacers suddenly becomes the best PG in the association. Come on guys, seriously? Do you really think Jordan Farmar is the solution?

Post like this make me a little angry. Please point out anyone who even suggested that Farmar "suddenly becomes the best PG in the association".

Please show me the direct quote or even some sort of statement that even hints at such a thing.

No one is even saying that Farmar is the solution. But he might be and why not look into him and if the price is right, why not bring him in.

edit: it is weird to look at Hoopshype.com and see the Pacers currently have the 5th highest team payroll in the NBA

Unclebuck
07-01-2010, 09:11 AM
I don't believe this has been posted yet.



http://www.insidesocal.com/lakers/2010/06/farmar-speaks.html


FARMAR SPEAKS
By Vincent Bonsignore on June 30, 2010 8:56 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) | ShareThis
When it was all said and done, the Lakers did right by Jordan Farmar Wednesday when they declined to give the restricted guard a one-year, $2.8 million contract offer.

Because now Farmar gets exactly what he wants: Unrestricted free agency and an opportunity to shop himself around the NBA as a potential starting point guard.

Farmar and his agent asked the Lakers not to exercise their right to make the offer, which essentially means they will receive nothing in return if Farmar does leave as a free agent.

Had they done so, the Lakers could have matched any contract offer made to Farmar by other teams, severely limiting his maneuverability.

"I really appreciate what they did, because they didn't have to, they could have treated me like a piece of real estate and potentially hurt my ability to take a serious look at what might be out there for me," Farmar said by phone Wednesday. "So for that, I am thankful."

The move doesn't officially end Farmar's Lakers career, which began four years ago when they drafted him in the first round out of UCLA and spanned three NBA Finals appearances and two world championships, but it's very likely he won't be back next season.

By all indications, the Lakers will bring back Derek Fisher, which would have meant another year as a backup rather than a starting job for Farmar.

And at this point in his career, the former Taft of Woodland Hills star wants a chance to branch out as a starter, to find out if he can be an upper-echelon point guard in the NBA, preferably with a team that runs an up-tempo offense rather than the slower triangle.

"That's my goal, and I want to see what opportunities are out there for me as a starter," Farmar said. "I know there is interest, and I'm looking forward to exploring my options. It's something I've been looking forward to."

Farmar, 23, is grateful for his time with his hometown Lakers, and if he does move on he will look back on his career in Los Angeles with fondness.

"I love everything about the organization, my teammates and this city," Farmar said. "But ultimately I want a chance to start, and it's something I looked forward to every single year here, but it just never happened. All I've ever wanted was a legitimate chance to start."

Now he may finally get it.

graphic-er
07-01-2010, 09:12 AM
Come on he did more than that and if given the opportunity I think he would do very well for us.
Really, can't think of anything else... I know, he warmed a seat for when Fisher needed to rest his old man legs.

NapTonius Monk
07-01-2010, 09:31 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/8722/jordan-farmar-exit-interview-video

June, 22, 2010 Jun 22
5:11
PM PT





Heading into the Western Conference Finals against the Suns, I wrote about Jordan Farmar's progression (or lack thereof) (http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/6941/jordan-farmar-vs-the-suns-then-and-now) since his surprise promotion to starter for the 2007 playoffs against Phoenix. Our conversation for the article reinforced a lot of what we've heard from Farmar over the last couple of seasons. He's not wild about the triangle or his place in a system preventing him from having the ball in his hands for large chunks of possessions. He hasn't been griping to the media, but he's definitely dissatisfied playing off the bench in a limited role. In the meantime, the coaching staff hasn't always been enamored with his play or his attitude.

I've often predicted Jordan's time with the Lakers will have the end date of June 30, 2010 due to mutual disinterest. After Farmar's exit interview, I'm more convinced than ever he'll be with another team next season. The restricted free agent obviously refrained from committing one way or another, but the criteria laid out for a decision presented the odds of returning as fairly small:

"I really want to see what kind of player I can be in this league," explained Farmar. "I know I can do a lot. I know I can lead a team. For me in my career, I've always played at a championship level, so I definitely want to win and that's important to me. But I don't know if I could look back at the end of my career, if I didn't get a chance to see that type of player I can really be. So this free agency is kind of what is it geared for towards for me. I want to check that out and see the situation, whether it be here or elsewhere, where I can really see what I can do."

Well, between the presences of Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom, Farmar's role in the foreseeable future will only grow so much. Factor in a seemingly good chance Derek Fisher will be re-signed (I've personally never believed otherwise) and he still may not even be able to crack the starting lineup, and next season appears even more a Xerox in the making. Then again, he's a role player with two rings and a shot at more, so there's the trade-off. How do you balance that?

"It's tough," admitted Farmar. "I think for my career, I need to establish myself as somebody who can lead a team and play big minutes and being a lead guard. I think that desire to want to do more comes all the time, especially having won two championships early in my career. I think it's really important. Looking back, I'll really be happy with these championships, but I really want to push myself to the limit. I've always done that, to try to push myself to be better and better."

Farmar's an L.A. native who's played his entire career from the high school-level onward in the City of Angels. Career aspirations understood and appreciated, I wondered if he was nonetheless ambivalent about leaving the only roundball town he knows.

Not so much.

"Outside of the Lakers, I like that idea. I love L.A. I think it's good for somebody to get away sometimes. My friends and family have been great, and they've had a chance to be close and be around this whole experience and learn and grow. I have a family of my own starting, and that's where my heart and my head is. We're gonna be together no matter where we're at. I think that's comfortable for me and us. I have a little one on the way. A lot of good things are going for me. I'm just looking forward to the rest of your life."

Like I said, ain't the signals of a dude with plans to stick around.

Farmar's situation is nothing if not interesting. On one hand, his concern about getting pigeonholed is valid, along with his projection for the ceiling to his role in purple and gold. He's also likely correct about his potential as a better fit elsewhere, and remains a good, quick finisher with underrated hops. On the other hand, I've always felt Farmar isn't quite as good as he thinks he is and I'm not convinced he's the ideal starter for a playoff-caliber team. He's a streaky shooter and while perhaps the result of being limited by the triangle, he's been a fairly inconsistent play-maker. On defense, he's can be a demon jumping the passing lanes, but he's not great on-ball and isn't strong enough to fight through screens. If he's been legitimately robbed of a chance to develop in L.A., he's nonetheless left with a lot of improvements to make.

I also wonder how great a leader Farmar will be, since it's generally a requirement for point guards. Without question, Jordan hasn't received many opportunities outside of the Bench Mob's early days in 2008 - to be fair, he often acquitted himself nicely - but his mindset leaves one hard-pressed to picture him as an extension of a coach's whiteboard. It's been very important for Jordan to play "his way," and a point guard who doesn't wholeheartedly endorse his coach's plan is a huge obstacle. Just ask the Clips and Baron Davis. If Farmar wants the responsibility and the ball in his hands, he'll need to adopt more of a "no questions asked" mindset on his next team. If the hardheadedness resurfaces, he could wind up in the exact same situation, except on a non-contender.

In any event, I'm counting on a "Thank you, Jordan" jumbotron montage at some point next season. Watch Farmar below and tell me if you disagree.

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<embed name="s_media_1_0" id="s_media_1_0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G1Y9mzLDHNU&hl=en&fs=1" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="540"></object>

Unclebuck
07-01-2010, 09:34 AM
I was trying to think of other teams in need of a starting point guard, who could almost guarantee Farmar a chance to start.

Knicks
Pacers
Heat - although that puts Farmar back in a similar situation with Wade being Kobe like and Wade having the ball most of the time

Any other teams?

2Cleva
07-01-2010, 09:35 AM
Wells222 (http://twitter.com/Wells222)
It's not surprising the Pacers are interested in Farmar. Team officials have liked him for some time.

I do have to say as a Laker fan - Farmar is very talented. However he has a real superstar mentality - that's the biggest problem LA had. He thought he should shine in a traditional offensive set instead of run the tri. He was more about what was good for him than what was good for LA. I understand that completely with young players.

Last season, LA actually changed the offense so the 2nd team would be more uptempo and Farmar could do his thing. This past season that wasn't the case as they tried Shannon more as the initiator to mixed results.

Hard to keep young guys happy in lesser roles when they already have a ring.

I think Farmar would do well in Indy. He definitely will score for the team. An issue I have is he doesn't create for others off his penetration but that is partly because he's so hungry to prove himself. Getting a starting nod should chill him out.

He's a cocky SOB though. Can rub a lot of people the wrong way. He won't hesitate to voice displeasure to coaches either. If he can do it to Phil, he'll do it to anyone.

D-BONE
07-01-2010, 09:43 AM
I guess I'd be okay with him if the price is right, which appears to be one advantage according to many here. I'd also prefer a relatively short-term deal. One reason is that he's far from a sure thing.

There's also the general attitude thing that comes out some of the posts. If he comes in and competes to start, but doesn't win the job or even does next year but doesn't hold in more than a year, how does he react then?

Not sure he'd be my first choice, but sounds like he's one of the more realistic ones. I like Felton better from an all-around standpoint, but it would appear that his asking price will be too exorbitant for us.

MLB007
07-01-2010, 09:54 AM
Of course, most of us preferred TJ Ford over Jamaal ****ing Tinsley at one point in time.

I still like him more than Jamaal ****ing Tinsley!! :box:

sheppie33
07-01-2010, 10:04 AM
Pacers show interest in Farmar

The Indiana Pacers are targeting former Lakers point guard Jordan Farmar for a one-year contract. The Portland Trail Blazers and Knicks have shown interest, too.

– Adrian Wojnarowski, 3:15 a.m. ET, July 1



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhrCIlrKtZesVrjyohcJKIy8vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz063010

sheppie33
07-01-2010, 10:05 AM
Felton Too.

Several teams show interest in Felton

Charlotte Bobcats free-agent point guard Raymond Felton received calls from New York, Miami, Indiana, New Jersey, Dallas and Memphis at the beginning of free agency, a source said. Felton is viewed as the best point guard available in free agency. While the Los Angeles Lakers are looking for a point guard, Felton is expected to command more than the midlevel exception and is likely out the Lakers’ range.

– Marc J. Spears, 2:45 a.m. ET, July 1

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhrCIlrKtZesVrjyohcJKIy8vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz063010

Shade
07-01-2010, 10:06 AM
Meh.

Brad8888
07-01-2010, 10:07 AM
Maybe we could talk LA into doing a S & T of Farmar for Dahntay. That way Kobe won't have to worry about being shut down by Dahntay except in practice. Then, we would have a serviceable backup at the point for whoever we find to start after TJ's contract expires. Until then, at least we would a pg who can hit 3's at an acceptable rate.

Unclebuck
07-01-2010, 10:07 AM
I see the Blazers are a similar situation to the lakers. In that when the game is on the line they give the ball to Roy and use him as the point guard. Actually they do that for large portions of every game.

Felton is more of a sure thing. But acquiring him is more expensive and I think if we acquire him in a season or two we still will want a better point guard.

I would rather acquire Farmar - of course assuming he can come cheap. Pacers selling point is he'll be the starter

D-BONE
07-01-2010, 10:09 AM
Pacers show interest in Farmar

The Indiana Pacers are targeting former Lakers point guard Jordan Farmar for a one-year contract. The Portland Trail Blazers and Knicks have shown interest, too.

– Adrian Wojnarowski, 3:15 a.m. ET, July 1



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AhrCIlrKtZesVrjyohcJKIy8vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz063010

If accurate, how would Farmar feel about a one-year offer? Personally, I'm all for shorter deals for the type of guys that have been suggested, but are they?

Slick Pinkham
07-01-2010, 10:14 AM
He's a cocky SOB though. Can rub a lot of people the wrong way. He won't hesitate to voice displeasure to coaches either. If he can do it to Phil, he'll do it to anyone.

That sounds exactly what people were saying about Rondo two years ago, when it seemed like the Celtics were almost convinced that he was more trouble than he was worth. I know, he is not a Rondo-type athlete. I have no expectations that he would be a top 5 NBA PG.

There is a chance that he could be a significant upgrade, though. Lots of people here were clamoring for a draft trade-down to get Bledsoe or Bradley. IMO Farmar is a safer option than they would have been, and I am happy with what we got in the draft anyway. If the finances can work, why not? He's 23, hungry, and much better than what we have. I'm not saying lock him up fro 5 years, but a 2 or 3 year deal in the 3-4 mil range per year seems doable. I doubt if he bites on 1 year. Maybe he wants more cash than 3-4 mil, though. If PT and potential impact are factors, there are few if any situations better for him.

Asteezy
07-01-2010, 10:34 AM
How do I feel with possible addition of Farmer? Well from what i have seen (very little) he could possibly come in and play at a similar level to Earl Watson did last year.

What sort of salary do you guys think he can demand? 2 mil per? more? less? i dont know, that sort of contract would almost certainly mean a s&t deal for the pacers too stay under the LT.

So what players could we trade to make a deal work?

D. Jones - Possible, but LAL has ill feeling towards this guy so that could prevent a deal?
B. Rush - Again a possibility but i'd hate to give up his stellar D
T. Hansborough - Doubt we would want to give up Hans in a deal for Farmar
R. Hibbert - Hang Up Larry
S. Jones - We would give him up, but i doubt LAL has an interest.

pizza guy
07-01-2010, 10:43 AM
That sounds exactly what people were saying about Rondo two years ago, when it seemed like the Celtics were almost convinced that he was more trouble than he was worth. I know, he is not a Rondo-type athlete. I have no expectations that he would be a top 5 NBA PG.

There is a chance that he could be a significant upgrade, though. Lots of people here were clamoring for a draft trade-down to get Bledsoe or Bradley. IMO Farmar is a safer option than they would have been, and I am happy with what we got in the draft anyway. If the finances can work, why not? He's 23, hungry, and much better than what we have. I'm not saying lock him up fro 5 years, but a 2 or 3 year deal in the 3-4 mil range per year seems doable. I doubt if he bites on 1 year. Maybe he wants more cash than 3-4 mil, though. If PT and potential impact are factors, there are few if any situations better for him.

That's what I was thinking. If he wants to prove himself, what better place than here? Getting this team to win would be one of the bigger challenges he could put himself up to. But, in Granger, Rush, and Hibbert he'd have three good players that could really use a PG that can set them up. If we could sell Farmar on that core being added to via the expirings and making this team a real contender in the East in a couple years, I think he'd find that the situation here is what he's looking for.

--pizza

Gamble1
07-01-2010, 10:51 AM
I have a hard time believing that he will accept 3-4 million to be a starter. IT would take the full MLE IMO.

Farmar has never excited me as a player. He's just like the other guys we have brought in. TO me he is a slight upgrade over Ford but so was Watson.

Swish
07-01-2010, 10:58 AM
This probably isn't going to happen without a trade going down elsewhere on the roster. We would have to not sign both 2nd rounders, and probably cut AJ Price to get enough money together to throw at Farmar to get him to even talk to us.

Anthem
07-01-2010, 10:59 AM
I have a hard time believing that he will accept 3-4 million to be a starter. IT would take the full MLE IMO.
He's not going to get anywhere close to that. Who's going to spend that kind of money?


Farmar has never excited me as a player. He's just like the other guys we have brought in. TO me he is a slight upgrade over Ford but so was Watson.
Yeah, but who's out there that's better? That we have a shot at right now?

I'm fine with a season-opening rotation of Farmer/Price. Hopefully we make a move for a top-flight guard in the next year, but this isn't a bad move as long as he comes cheap.

vnzla81
07-01-2010, 11:01 AM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100701/SPORTS04/7010416/1004/SPORTS/As-LeBron-Derby-begins-Pacers-seek-point-guard



If the Pacers go the free agent route for a point guard, expect them to look at Shaun Livingston, Steve Blake, Jordan Farmar and their own free agent, Earl Watson.

SMosley21
07-01-2010, 11:03 AM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100701/SPORTS04/7010416/1004/SPORTS/As-LeBron-Derby-begins-Pacers-seek-point-guard



If the Pacers go the free agent route for a point guard, expect them to look at Shaun Livingston, Steve Blake, Jordan Farmar and their own free agent, Earl Watson.

Add Kyle Lowry to that list, even though he's restricted.

Swish
07-01-2010, 11:09 AM
Maybe we could talk LA into doing a S & T of Farmar for Dahntay. That way Kobe won't have to worry about being shut down by Dahntay except in practice. Then, we would have a serviceable backup at the point for whoever we find to start after TJ's contract expires. Until then, at least we would a pg who can hit 3's at an acceptable rate.

Yeah, I'm sure Kobe is real worried about getting shut down by Dahntay twice a season. Probably keeps him up at night.

Gamble1
07-01-2010, 11:46 AM
He's not going to get anywhere close to that. Who's going to spend that kind of money?


Yeah, but who's out there that's better? That we have a shot at right now?

I'm fine with a season-opening rotation of Farmer/Price. Hopefully we make a move for a top-flight guard in the next year, but this isn't a bad move as long as he comes cheap.
I think we have to go a shoot a little higher than Farmar. Don't get me wrong I don't think he is terrible or anything but he is a scoring point guard to me. DO you see him differently and if you had an option of Farmar or HIll who would you choose?

I would take Hill over Farmar if it would only cost us Rush.

IUfan4life
07-01-2010, 12:18 PM
Yeah, I'm sure Kobe is real worried about getting shut down by Dahntay twice a season. Probably keeps him up at night.

thanks for making me spit out my coffee. jerk...

diamonddave00
07-01-2010, 01:36 PM
I think the Pacers will offer Jordan Farmar a 4 year deal in the 15 mil range (total salary). Larry will use his playoffs finals experience as a selling point to Pacer fans.

Sookie
07-01-2010, 01:39 PM
I'd prefer Farmar over Watson

We know what Watson is..Farmer at least is young and has the chance to get better...

besides..I don't want any vets available for Jimmy..

CableKC
07-01-2010, 01:50 PM
If we are looking to find a PG that can adequately run the point....then we're on the right track.

EDIT - Fine, I'll give him a chance...as long as we are not overpaying him. I'd be cool with about 4 mil a year.

Kid Minneapolis
07-01-2010, 01:56 PM
Farmar is not a bad player at all. Wouldn't mind having him.

bigjammers
07-01-2010, 02:08 PM
Not a huge fan of Farmar, but I think he's pretty low risk. He could bring a real winning attitude to the Pacers. He's been to the Finals 3 times and I believe he made the final 4 a few times while at UCLA (though that is less significant).

Gamble1
07-01-2010, 02:09 PM
I was trying to think of other teams in need of a starting point guard, who could almost guarantee Farmar a chance to start.

Knicks
Pacers
Heat - although that puts Farmar back in a similar situation with Wade being Kobe like and Wade having the ball most of the time

Any other teams?
I think the Pacers will be able to get Farmar. IF you look at the Heat or the Knicks they will want to have better pg than Farmar starting for them. Chalmers is arguably better now and the Knicks will have enough money laying around after no big FA come their way to invest in a guy like Felton.

Man I was hoping for more than Farmar this off season. Guess I'll have to wait another year.

Edit: Whats our fascination with UCLA pg's?? Watson, Farmar, Collison

count55
07-01-2010, 02:11 PM
EDIT - Fine, I'll give him a chance...as long as we are not overpaying him. I'd be cool with about 4 mil a year.

He may end up getting that, but that sure seems like overpaying him to me.

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 02:22 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100701/SPORTS04/7010416/1004/SPORTS/As-LeBron-Derby-begins-Pacers-seek-point-guard



If the Pacers go the free agent route for a point guard, expect them to look at Shaun Livingston, Steve Blake, Jordan Farmar and their own free agent, Earl Watson.

The thing about Jordan Farmar is that he is more offensive minded than running the point, kind of like TJ. But thats okay because he's a two year stop gap kind of guy that will be around to offer experience and grow as a player. He's extremely athletic, and understands how to run the point. He does have a confidence problem, but perhaps the 30+ minutes a night will help him understand his spot.

I don't think people understand just how bad our point guard situation is. Our starter last year was the third string point guard for a 25 win team that got cut halfway through the season. Our backup point guard TJ, has probably been begging to be traded forever now, all things point to AJ as being potentially injury prone.

Jordan was a backup for a multiple championship team, and while he is no world beater, he will take care of the point guard problem much better than the unproven Shaun Livingston (of whom I welcome to be our backup), offensively weak Earl Watson, one dimensional Steve Black, or signing an undrafted point guard. We are so weak offensively, Farmar might be able to average 13-15 points. I like this move if it is done, and I think the championship experience is the main thing that grabs my attention. If we are ever able to bring in our fictional magician point guard, than Jordan could be our backup, or sign wherever else in two years.

I DON'T want to see him playing the two. :laugh:

pizza guy
07-01-2010, 02:36 PM
I really like the upside of Farmar. He's been playing behind Fisher and has been able to watch the hardest working guy in the league for 4 years, not to mention his championship experience. He's got to have an understanding of what it takes to win, and not much is going to rattle him. He's still young and he is motivated. Not to mention, he's HEALTHY!

I'm OK with a PG that wants to take a few shots, even 3pt shots --IF he can hit them, and I think Farmar has proven he can do that. With Farmar, Granger, Hibbert, Rush/George, and (healthy) Psycho T, I think we're looking at a good future.

--pizza

bphil
07-01-2010, 02:42 PM
Post like this make me a little angry. Please point out anyone who even suggested that Farmar "suddenly becomes the best PG in the association".

Please show me the direct quote or even some sort of statement that even hints at such a thing.

No one is even saying that Farmar is the solution. But he might be and why not look into him and if the price is right, why not bring him in.

edit: it is weird to look at Hoopshype.com and see the Pacers currently have the 5th highest team payroll in the NBA

Sorry, not meaning to make you angry. I have a hard time dialing down my reality factor for these boards.

In my opinion, after three years most players in the NBA are what they are, especially if they played in college. A guy who averages 7 and 2 after three years is most likely going to average 7 and 2 for the rest of his career.

Remember how DJones blew up at the beginning of the season and Larry looked like a genius for signing him? And then he went back to being the same player he has always been and now everyone wants the Pacers to get rid of him. I foresee the same thing happening if we get Farmar, and we'll have to overpay to get him just like we overpaid for DJones.

No one wants to hear this, but I say we sign a scrub PG if we can or run the guys we already have out there for another year, and then try to get our long term solution next summer when we have cap space and/or a high draft pick. I would just hate to see the Pacers wasting time and money on a guy who is destined to be a career backup...

Anthem
07-01-2010, 02:42 PM
He may end up getting that, but that sure seems like overpaying him to me.
Agreed. The whole reason to go after Farmar, in my opinion, is that he's likely to be cheap. I'm thinking less than J.Jack.

count55
07-01-2010, 02:45 PM
Agreed. The whole reason to go after Farmar, in my opinion, is that he's likely to be cheap. I'm thinking less than J.Jack.

Yeah, I don't want to pay the guy jack, either.

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 02:46 PM
Sorry, not meaning to make you angry. I have a hard time dialing down my reality factor for these boards.

In my opinion, after three years most players in the NBA are what they are, especially if they played in college. A guy who averages 7 and 2 after three years is most likely going to average 7 and 2 for the rest of his career.

Remember how DJones blew up at the beginning of the season and Larry looked like a genius for signing him? And then he went back to being the same player he has always been and now everyone wants the Pacers to get rid of him. I foresee the same thing happening if we get Farmar, and we'll have to overpay to get him just like we overpaid for DJones.

No one wants to hear this, but I say we sign a scrub PG if we can or run the guys we already have out there for another year, and then try to get our long term solution next summer when we have cap space and/or a high draft pick. I would just hate to see the Pacers wasting time and money on a guy who is destined to be a career backup...

As long as we sign him for 3 years with a team option, I'm cool with paying him around 4 million per year.

He's always been much better than DJones.

indyblue47
07-01-2010, 02:50 PM
I just saw this on ESPN Insider from Chad Ford and thought I'd share.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

ESPN's Chad Ford
Pacers must weigh options against Farmar

"The question is ... do they want to overpay for a guy who could never beat out an aging Derek Fisher in L.A.? They explored all sorts of deals for Devin Harris, Darren Collison, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor etc. at the draft. I feel like if they're patient, they probably land a better PG."

bphil
07-01-2010, 02:51 PM
Agreed. The whole reason to go after Farmar, in my opinion, is that he's likely to be cheap. I'm thinking less than J.Jack.

Hmm. Am I the only one who thinks Farmar is going to be looking for long-term starter's money? He strikes me as a guy who strongly overvalues himself and his experience with the Lakers based on the quotes I've been reading from him recently... am I wrong?

sheppie33
07-01-2010, 02:54 PM
Hmm. Am I the only one who thinks Farmar is going to be looking for long-term starter's money? He strikes me as a guy who strongly overvalues himself and his experience with the Lakers based on the quotes I've been reading from him recently... am I wrong?

I sense that as well. I dont mind Farmar, but I think we should wait it out a bit longer and see if better options come along. At least wait until free agency plays out a bit.

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 02:56 PM
Hmm. Am I the only one who thinks Farmar is going to be looking for long-term starter's money? He strikes me as a guy who strongly overvalues himself and his experience with the Lakers based on the quotes I've been reading from him recently... am I wrong?

While its pretty obvious he overvalues himself, I don't think his agent would be silly enough to lead Jordan to believe that he's actually going to get paid big $$.

bphil
07-01-2010, 02:59 PM
While its pretty obvious he overvalues himself, I don't think his agent would be silly enough to lead Jordan to believe that he's actually going to get paid big $$.

Wait... isn't that an agent's job? Ha ha... :)

Unclebuck
07-01-2010, 02:59 PM
I just saw this on ESPN Insider from Chad Ford and thought I'd share.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

ESPN's Chad Ford
Pacers must weigh options against Farmar

"The question is ... do they want to overpay for a guy who could never beat out an aging Derek Fisher in L.A.? They explored all sorts of deals for Devin Harris, Darren Collison, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor etc. at the draft. I feel like if they're patient, they probably land a better PG."

I feel the need to say two things in response.

First I think Farmar is a point guard the pacers have a realistic chance of getting cheaply, I think he has a chance to be pretty good. How good I don't know.

Second and most important, I think the comment about "not beating out an aging Derek Fisher" is an idiotic comment (and I would tell Chad Ford that to his face) because Fisher is one guy who Kobe trusts above all other players so the value Fisher provides as the point guard on that team is huge. Fisher is really good or rather perfect for the triangle for Kobe for Phil for that team. So to denigrade Farmar because he cannot beat out Fish is an idiotic comment

Since86
07-01-2010, 03:02 PM
Sorry, not meaning to make you angry. I have a hard time dialing down my reality factor for these boards.

In my opinion, after three years most players in the NBA are what they are, especially if they played in college. A guy who averages 7 and 2 after three years is most likely going to average 7 and 2 for the rest of his career.

Yes, because no one in the entire history of the NBA has ever, EVER, actually improved year-to-year.

There are quite a few examples, across all sports, that contradict your opinion. But don't let that get in your way.

No, I'm not saying Farmar will, just saying it's silly to think he can't.

OakMoses
07-01-2010, 03:08 PM
I feel the need to say two things in response.

First I think Farmar is a point guard the pacers have a realistic chance of getting cheaply, I think he has a chance to be pretty good. How good I don't know.

Second and most important, I think the comment about "not beating out an aging Derek Fisher" is an idiotic comment (and I would tell Chad Ford that to his face) because Fisher is one guy who Kobe trusts above all other players so the value Fisher provides as the point guard on that team is huge. Fisher is really good or rather perfect for the triangle for Kobe for Phil for that team. So to denigrade Farmar because he cannot beat out Fish is an idiotic comment

I agree, both about Farmar and about Fisher.

Ford says we can get a better PG if we're patient, but if we sign Farmar to a cheap, short deal, it's not like we're limiting our options in any way.

esabyrn333
07-01-2010, 03:08 PM
I feel the need to say two things in response.

First I think Farmar is a point guard the pacers have a realistic chance of getting cheaply, I think he has a chance to be pretty good. How good I don't know.

Second and most important, I think the comment about "not beating out an aging Derek Fisher" is an idiotic comment (and I would tell Chad Ford that to his face) because Fisher is one guy who Kobe trusts above all other players so the value Fisher provides as the point guard on that team is huge. Fisher is really good or rather perfect for the triangle for Kobe for Phil for that team. So to denigrade Farmar because he cannot beat out Fish is an idiotic comment

To piggy back on what you said.

If we get Farmar for cheap or for a very reasonable price what effect does that have on us trying to trade for one of the other guys. I would say 0%

Having 3 young PG's fighting for playing time would only make this team better ( Farmar, Price, MAYNOR, LAWSON, COLLISON Whoever)

Just like with our wings let them battle in practice and earn the starting job..... Competion makes everyone better.

bphil
07-01-2010, 03:14 PM
Yes, because no one in the entire history of the NBA has ever, EVER, actually improved year-to-year.

There are quite a few examples, across all sports, that contradict your opinion. But don't let that get in your way.

No, I'm not saying Farmar will, just saying it's silly to think he can't.

Most other sports are different than basketball in my opinion. I think you reach your "talent threshold" much more quickly in basketball than in football or baseball. You pretty much know how good a basketball player is going to be by the time he hits 20. If you think guys who are older than that are just late bloomers and will somehow figure it out further on down the road, then the Timberwolves will probably be calling you about a GM job in the near future...

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 03:18 PM
To piggy back on what you said.

If we get Farmar for cheap or for a very reasonable price what effect does that have on us trying to trade for one of the other guys. I would say 0%

Having 3 young PG's fighting for playing time would only make this team better ( Farmar, Price, MAYNOR, LAWSON, COLLISON Whoever)

Just like with our wings let them battle in practice and earn the starting job..... Competion makes everyone better.

Last year that was our big thing. We had too many decent role players and it really blew up in our faces.

Luther was good at iso and on the break, Dahntay wasn't bashful, Rush hits the three, TJ can play a little bit, etc. That was also Portlands problem two years ago, which is leading to Rudy Fernandez being shipped.

Since86
07-01-2010, 03:18 PM
You pretty much know how good a basketball player is going to be by the time he hits 20.


:spitout:

Have you ever watched a player named Danny Granger? I mean, when he was 23 he just finished his rookie year, which he averaged 7.5pts/game.

Four years later he's still averaging 7.5 points..........

Makes sense.

I feel like I'm in the trailer for Inception. "You mean, I'm dreaming?"

bphil
07-01-2010, 04:06 PM
:spitout:

Have you ever watched a player named Danny Granger? I mean, when he was 23 he just finished his rookie year, which he averaged 7.5pts/game.

Four years later he's still averaging 7.5 points..........

Makes sense.

I feel like I'm in the trailer for Inception. "You mean, I'm dreaming?"

To be fair (to myself), if you read my earlier posts, you will see that I stated that after three years in the NBA you know what a player's numbers will be in most cases. Granger's numbers improved in his first three years as he adjusted to the size and speed of the NBA game and as he got more PT, but his general skill set remained basically the same. He still does the same things he did then, just on a more consistent basis.

So, by the time a guy is 20, you can see what his skill set will be for the rest of his career. Give him two or three years to adjust to the NBA's level of play, and then he's pretty much locked in to the player he's going to be. Do you really think Danny's numbers are going to continue to improve as much from this point forward as they did during his first three seasons? Obviously not. Now I will grant you that Danny was a bit of an unusual case after he continued to improve into his fourth season, which is why he earned the most improved award... :)

If I'm wrong about what I'm saying, then please explain why every single player in the NBA isn't shooting 95% from the free throw line after 10 years in the league...

OakMoses
07-01-2010, 04:12 PM
Steve Nash's numbers looked pretty mediocre for his first 4 years, until he got a starting job.

Day-V
07-01-2010, 04:15 PM
I'd still rather give Livingston a shot. Although I wonder if we could get both.

Pacersalltheway10
07-01-2010, 07:21 PM
Livingston averaged 11 points per game and 5 assists per game as a starter last year.. He averages 2 ppg and 2 assists per game as a substitute. In his last 3 games played the totals were: 15 points and 7 assists , 18 points and 7 assists , 10 points and 7 assists. Pacers should give him a chance.

pizza guy
07-01-2010, 07:26 PM
I feel the need to say two things in response.

First I think Farmar is a point guard the pacers have a realistic chance of getting cheaply, I think he has a chance to be pretty good. How good I don't know.

Second and most important, I think the comment about "not beating out an aging Derek Fisher" is an idiotic comment (and I would tell Chad Ford that to his face) because Fisher is one guy who Kobe trusts above all other players so the value Fisher provides as the point guard on that team is huge. Fisher is really good or rather perfect for the triangle for Kobe for Phil for that team. So to denigrade Farmar because he cannot beat out Fish is an idiotic comment

That's what I was thinking. Replacing Fisher in LA won't happen until he retires. Doesn't matter how old he gets until he reaches Darrell Armstrong-status. He is the PG for Kobe and Phil, and has earned his spot for as long as he wants it. Knocking Farmar for that is simply foolish.

Considering the price Farmar will likely command, I don't see how any of these others are better. Let's say one of the teams in the FA race misses out on "their guy" and they want something to appease the mobs. They're under the cap, so we offer some deal where they get a decent player and we get some cap space. Just enough to sign Farmar. Then, with whatever we've got left, we make another deal for a serious contributor to this team. All of a sudden, the Pacers are a completely different squad and have a really good shot at making the playoffs.

Not saying it's going to happen, but it could.

--pizza

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 07:31 PM
I would be okay with a lineup of:

Farmar/Livingston/Stephenson/Ford
Rush/George/Stephenson/Jones
Granger/Rush/Mike
Murphy (ugh)/McRoberts/Hansbrough (If he ever returns)
Hibbert/McRoberts/Foster/Rolle

At least until the deadline.

Swish
07-01-2010, 08:49 PM
Count, can you tell us how far under the LT we would be after signing George, before signing either of the 2nd rounders? How much would cutting Price save us?

I think it's important to see how much we could even pay the guy before going much further down the Farmar road.

PacerPride33
07-01-2010, 09:17 PM
Terrible choice by Pacers, Farmar is terrible

count55
07-01-2010, 09:23 PM
Count, can you tell us how far under the LT we would be after signing George, before signing either of the 2nd rounders? How much would cutting Price save us?

I think it's important to see how much we could even pay the guy before going much further down the Farmar road.

Signing George puts us about $428 under the luxury tax. If we were to cut Price prior to 8/1 (which I neither advocate, nor expect), we would save his entire contract, which is $762, so that would leave us at $1,191 below the tax.

We could also save some money by cutting McRoberts prior to opening night (which I also neither advocate nor expect), about another $385.

So the most possible money we could clear under the tax - without a trade or a buyout - would be just over $1.5mm.

It is my expectation that the two 2nd rounders will not sign contracts until September or so (as we did with Price) while we try to work out some deal to (a) bring in a PG and (b) reduce both our payroll and our roster.

My guess is that they really plan on keeping all three draft picks, and they'd probably like to bring in two players - probably both PG's - while moving two players off the current roster (I suspect they want to move Ford and one of the other expirings).

But...that's just a guess. I think they're going to sit tight for a couple of weeks while the FA market settles out, then try to make some deals.

NapTonius Monk
07-01-2010, 09:55 PM
now everyone wants the Pacers to get rid of him.I don't think this is the case at all with Dahntay.

NapTonius Monk
07-01-2010, 09:56 PM
Terrible choice by Pacers, Farmar is terribleI think it's a fair argument that he wasn't a good fit for the triangle. You think he might look a bit better in an offense keyed by the point?

Really?
07-02-2010, 12:31 AM
Hey quick question to anyone who knows have the Pacers ever added a player to the regular season team that they invited to the Summer League?

Swish
07-02-2010, 12:48 AM
Signing George puts us about $428 under the luxury tax. If we were to cut Price prior to 8/1 (which I neither advocate, nor expect), we would save his entire contract, which is $762, so that would leave us at $1,191 below the tax.

We could also save some money by cutting McRoberts prior to opening night (which I also neither advocate nor expect), about another $385.

So the most possible money we could clear under the tax - without a trade or a buyout - would be just over $1.5mm.

It is my expectation that the two 2nd rounders will not sign contracts until September or so (as we did with Price) while we try to work out some deal to (a) bring in a PG and (b) reduce both our payroll and our roster.

My guess is that they really plan on keeping all three draft picks, and they'd probably like to bring in two players - probably both PG's - while moving two players off the current roster (I suspect they want to move Ford and one of the other expirings).

But...that's just a guess. I think they're going to sit tight for a couple of weeks while the FA market settles out, then try to make some deals.

Thank you, sir. One more Q: I'm not familiar with what the minimum is...is it possible to sign both 2nd's without making any other moves and still be under the LT?

Sookie
07-02-2010, 12:52 AM
Thank you, sir. One more Q: I'm not familiar with what the minimum is...is it possible to sign both 2nd's without making any other moves and still be under the LT?

I think just one..

How do they expect to reduce the salary?

If we trade an expiring, won't we get a contract equal to it?

tadscout
07-02-2010, 12:55 AM
I think just one..

How do they expect to reduce the salary?

If we trade an expiring, won't we get a contract equal to it?

Not if we trade the expiring to a team under the cap...

OakMoses
07-02-2010, 08:13 AM
So the most possible money we could clear under the tax - without a trade or a buyout - would be just over $1.5mm.


How do buyouts work as far as the tax is concerned?I thought we were on the hook for the whole number even after the buyout.

TooBigNdaPaint
07-02-2010, 08:16 AM
I usually hate dumb rumors but this one's interesting: Word from Yahoo sports is that Farmar 'damaged' Kobe's finger so badly on an errant pass that it will take a long time to heal and that Kobe was SO angry at Farmar that he expected to be cut (instead of not being resigned). Kobe damaged finger was wrapped tightly throughout the playoffs and he had to medicate it to play. Kobe's medical doctor have said his damaged finger may trouble him all of next year. I may research more about Kobe's damaged finger from Laker websites and/or forums.

count55
07-02-2010, 08:20 AM
How do buyouts work as far as the tax is concerned?I thought we were on the hook for the whole number even after the buyout.

We're on the hook for whatever the buyout amount is, prorated over the remainder of the contract. For example, if we were to negotiate a buyout for Ford at his contract less the minimum for a player with 6 years experience (about $1.1mm), then we'd pay him $7.4, and that would become his cap number, instead of the $8.5.

Tinsley was owed ~$14.8mm over the last two years of his contract, but was bought out for ~$10.7mm. Had he stayed on the team, he would have had a $7.6mm cap figure this year, but the buyout figure is <$5.5mm.

wintermute
07-02-2010, 08:27 AM
Hey quick question to anyone who knows have the Pacers ever added a player to the regular season team that they invited to the Summer League?

i'm not really sure - was courtney sims initially a summer camp invitee? he ended up playing a few games for the pacers in the regular season.

it's pretty rare for this to happen, for any team. a notable one last year was wesley matthews, undrafted rookie who played for the jazz in summer league and ended up making the team.



How do they expect to reduce the salary?

If we trade an expiring, won't we get a contract equal to it?


Not if we trade the expiring to a team under the cap...

that's one way. also, contracts only need to match to within 125%. so we can trade a big contract for a slightly smaller contract and possibly save a few million. as an example, we can trade murphy (making almost $12m) straight up for corey magette ($9.6m), saving us about $2m this year.

count55
07-02-2010, 08:29 AM
I think just one..

How do they expect to reduce the salary?

If we trade an expiring, won't we get a contract equal to it?


Not if we trade the expiring to a team under the cap...

Also, the rule for matching says that a team can take back up to 125% of the salaries being sent out + $100,000. Therefore, the Pacers could be the team on the other side of that deal. Here's a list of the "minimum" dollars required back in trade for the four big expiring contracts:


Salary Minimum Savings
Troy Murphy 11,968,254 9,494,603 2,473,651
Mike Dunleavy 10,561,984 8,369,587 2,192,397
T.J. Ford 8,500,000 6,720,000 1,780,000
Jeff Foster 6,655,000 5,244,000 1,411,000


This would allow us to reduce payroll while trading with another team that is over the cap. Of course, the other team would have to be willing to take on the additional salary, so it's still something difficult to negotiate.

wintermute
07-02-2010, 08:33 AM
We're on the hook for whatever the buyout amount is, prorated over the remainder of the contract. For example, if we were to negotiate a buyout for Ford at his contract less the minimum for a player with 6 years experience (about $1.1mm), then we'd pay him $7.4, and that would become his cap number, instead of the $8.5.


not a very palatable option, but as a last resort - we can always buy out tj to help avoid the luxury tax.

i think this is something the pacers have discussed. we've heard about the possibility of a tj buyout more than a few times, from wells i think.

OakMoses
07-02-2010, 09:19 AM
I think a Ford buyout is a last resort but probably something that's already been discussed and planned. If word gets out that you're going to buyout Ford, his trade value becomes non-existent. I'm sure Bird is still working hard to find a way to move him, so the official line is that he's not being bought out.

Swish
07-02-2010, 09:41 AM
Ford has to agree to the buyout, too. If he wanted out of here more than he wanted his money, he wouldn't have picked up his player option for this year.

count55
07-02-2010, 09:43 AM
not a very palatable option, but as a last resort - we can always buy out tj to help avoid the luxury tax.

i think this is something the pacers have discussed. we've heard about the possibility of a tj buyout more than a few times, from wells i think.


I think a Ford buyout is a last resort but probably something that's already been discussed and planned. If word gets out that you're going to buyout Ford, his trade value becomes non-existent. I'm sure Bird is still working hard to find a way to move him, so the official line is that he's not being bought out.

I think that a Ford buyout wouldn't happen until around the deadline, and only as a last resort to get under the tax.

The problem with a Ford buyout this summer is that it removes his expiring contract as something usable, and it doesn't create enough space under the tax for us to get a point guard. Buying out Ford for $7.4mm (his contract less the vet min) would leave us a little less than $1.5mm under the tax - before signing our 2 2nd rounders - which I full expect at the min, or about $474 each for the first year.

It just doesn't create enough wiggle room for it to be useful this summer.

count55
07-02-2010, 09:46 AM
Ford has to agree to the buyout, too. If he wanted out of here more than he wanted his money, he wouldn't have picked up his player option for this year.

The buyout would have to be big enough for Ford to believe that he could make up the difference on another team...or at least that the gap between the his current $8.5 and the buyout + his new team salary is small enough that it's made up by the opportunity to play for his next contract.

There is a huge difference between forgoing $8.5mm and testing your value in the market, and giving up $1-2mm in order to get a chance somewhere else.

wintermute
07-02-2010, 10:05 AM
ironically, tj might be regretting not opting out now. the way teams are throwing money around right now, he might easily nab a mle type deal from a team desperate for a pg (e.g. knicks).

hollinger explains the current frenzy as a simple matter of too many max slots, not enough max free agents, with the side effect that too much cap space is driving up everyone's price, even guys like gooden and amir johnson.

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-freeagency-100701/seller-market

if we expect to nab farmar or anyone else on the cheap, it will have to be after all the crazy free agent money has been spent.

HOOPFANATIC
07-02-2010, 12:32 PM
I absolutely love Farmar. He's young, he's got rings to show the guys in the lockeroom. Bird knows you've got to have some players with a winning mentality and have been at least used to winning in the past, and may work harder when the losing starts instead of blaming his teamates.

CableKC
07-02-2010, 12:44 PM
if we expect to nab farmar or anyone else on the cheap, it will have to be after all the crazy free agent money has been spent.
My guess is that if we wait too long, Players like Farmar won't be available.

What other Free Agent PGs are out there that are somewhat decent?

Felton
Blake
Ridnour
Farmar
Lowry

There probably are more...but ( outside of Lowry ) my guess is that these are the top ones available. I know...not the best PG list for a Starting PG....but I can see all of them being off the board and overpaid once the Lebron dominoes fall. Farmar is going to get overpaid IMHO....probably $4 mil a year for multiple years.

OakMoses
07-02-2010, 12:49 PM
Farmar is going to get overpaid IMHO....probably $4 mil a year for multiple years.

Our trump card in the Farmar sweepstakes (if there really is one) is that he wants to start. As UB points out, there are really only 2 starting gigs available right now, us and New York.

One thing to consider in the PG sweepstakes is that if LeBron leaves Cleveland, there may be a fire sale. I wonder if we could pull off something like Foster, Ford, Solo, and a protected 1st for Mo Wiliams and Anderson Varejao.

CableKC
07-02-2010, 01:01 PM
Our trump card in the Farmar sweepstakes (if there really is one) is that he wants to start. As UB points out, there are really only 2 starting gigs available right now, us and New York.

One thing to consider in the PG sweepstakes is that if LeBron leaves Cleveland, there may be a fire sale. I wonder if we could pull off something like Foster, Ford, Solo, and a protected 1st for Mo Wiliams and Anderson Varejao.
If we could get Sideshow Bob....I think he'd be worth it....but no thanks on MoWill....$8.5 to 9.6 mil a year ( up and down between that range ) for 4 seasons. I'm trying to avoid overpaid Players.

Also...I'm beginning to think that Farmar will be overpaid beyond the 4 mil. On top of that....if we are truly going to just offer him a 1 year contract....even as the Starter...I don't see him wanting to get a 1 year deal and then be at the mercy of the unknowns of the CBA next season.

Swish
07-02-2010, 02:54 PM
I kind of think maybe Bird is saying, "Sign this one year deal for a small amount of money, go out and prove yourself, and we'll be the first in line to give you some cash when we have it next offseason.

pwee31
07-02-2010, 03:43 PM
I think a Ford buyout is a last resort but probably something that's already been discussed and planned. If word gets out that you're going to buyout Ford, his trade value becomes non-existent. I'm sure Bird is still working hard to find a way to move him, so the official line is that he's not being bought out.

Another reason that leads you to believe the Pacers really liked Paul George, aren't/weren't comfortable they can/could get PG, or didn't really like anyone at the end of the 1st round.

Let's remember the OKC offered #21 and #26 for #10 and Ford without the Pacers having to take back any other contract. Brackins, Orton and Whiteside were available. Still could get Stephenson at #40. Crawford was available. I mean there's still value on the board, PLUS you unload Ford's 8.5 million

Perhaps Bird thought he could get more value? Or perhaps Paul George is a guy we really wanted

NapTonius Monk
07-03-2010, 05:56 PM
Ford has to agree to the buyout, too. If he wanted out of here more than he wanted his money, he wouldn't have picked up his player option for this year.Just who in the heck do you think this guy is? Richard Jefferson?

Unclebuck
07-04-2010, 07:58 AM
If the writer thinks the Blazers run a wide open offense, he obvously has never seen a Blazers game.

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_15438059


BONSIGNORE: For Jordan Farmar, the real world awaits
Former UCLA, Taft High standout severs ties from Lakers in hopes of landing starting point guard spot somewhere.
By Vincent Bonsignore, columnist
Posted: 07/03/2010 10:08:09 PM PDT
Updated: 07/03/2010 10:49:16 PM PDT


Jordan Farmar, who has spent his entire NBA career with the Lakers since being drafted by the team in 2006, is an unrestricted free agent. When it was all said and done, the Lakers did right by Jordan Farmar on Wednesday when they declined to give the restricted guard a one-year, $2.8 million contract offer.

Now Farmar gets exactly what he wants: Unrestricted free agency and an opportunity to shop himself around the NBA as a potential starting point guard.

It's freedom and opportunity the former Taft of Woodland Hills and UCLA standout has sought for a few years now, a chance to run his own club and find out once and for all if he has what it takes to be an impact starting point guard in this league.

He isn't fleeing the Lakers as much as he's seeking a better opportunity to show what kind of player he's capable of being.

"It's nothing


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personal against the Lakers at all, because I've loved just about everything about playing for this organization," Farmar said. "But I am at a point in my career where I want a chance to start, to see what kind of player I can be while playing (big) minutes."
And he just doesn't see that materializing

with the Lakers, not with them seemingly committed to bringing back Derek Fisher for at least one more season, and certainly not after they signed veteran Steve Blake on Friday to either back Fisher up or possibly start if Fisher goes elsewhere.

In any case, Farmar did not sense a strong opportunity to start next year for the Lakers, which is why he and his agent asked them not to exercise their right to make him an


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offer, an appeal they honored a day before the start of free agency.
For Farmar it represented a classy gesture by the Lakers, and it expanded his opportunities considerably.

Had the Lakers extended an offer, it would have made Farmar a restricted free agent, meaning the Lakers could have matched any contract offer to him by another team.

That would have severely limited his marketability, other teams fearful they'd just be wasting their time chasing him if the Lakers had the final say in whether they brought him back.

But by waiving the right - and surrendering any chance at compensation if he leaves - the Lakers granted Farmar complete freedom to find a job and team that best suits him.

And for that, he is grateful.

"I really appreciate what they did, because they didn't have to, they could have treated me like a piece of real estate and potentially hurt my ability to take a serious look at what might be out there for me," Farmar said. "So for that, I am thankful."

The move didn't officially end Farmar's Lakers career, which began four years ago when they drafted him in the first round out of UCLA and spanned three NBA Finals appearances and two world championships, but with the signing of Blake and the likelihood of Fisher returning, it is very doubtful Farmar will be wearing purple and gold next year.

Now Farmar can focus on finding a team he feels best suits his talents - which sometimes seemed suffocated by the restrictions of the triangle offense.

As of Saturday, the Indiana Pacers, Portland Trail Blazers and New York Knicks were showing considerable interest in Farmar, and each team runs a wide-open offense.

Nothing against the triangle - which has helped Phil Jackson win 11 NBA titles over the past 19 seasons - but it never afforded Farmar the chance to utilize his skill set as a creator and scorer.

And as a backup, Farmar was severely limited in what he could do, his primary focus being defense and trying to maintain any momentum the starters created.

Offensively, there were never any set plays to exploit his ability, and his limited minutes never enabled him to get into any sort of rhythm.

Farmar averaged 18.1 minutes per game over his four years with the Lakers, always a dependable backup and part of the rotation almost from the day he arrived, but as the years moved on he was hoping to play more than the time he was allotted, and hopefully expand his role in the offense.

That was never the case at Taft or at UCLA, where Farmar was either the focal point or one of the main components, given free rein to run his teams and ample minutes to get teammates going and pick and chose his own scoring opportunities.

"That's how I grew up playing the game," Farmar said. "And as a backup, you just don't have that kind of leeway, and that can be a difficult adjustment."

It doesn't help that Farmar has watched two former UCLA teammates - Oklahoma City's Russell Westbrook and New Orleans' Darren Collison - flourish in uptempo offenses that complement their talents, hoping for the chance to play in a similar system.

Now he may get that opportunity.

"That's my goal, and I want to see what opportunities are out there for me as a starter," Farmar said. "I know there is interest, and I'm looking forward to exploring my options. It's something I've been looking forward to."

Farmar, 23, is grateful for his time with his hometown Lakers, and if he does move on he will look back on his career in Los Angeles with fondness.

"I love everything about the organization, my teammates and this city," Farmar said. "But ultimately I want a chance to start, and it's something I looked forward to every single year here, but it just never happened. All I've ever wanted was a legitimate chance to start."

It's an opportunity he always wanted with the Lakers, but due to circumstances it was never afforded to him.

"I'd come into training camp every season expecting and hoping this would be the year I'd get a legitimate chance to start or play bigger minutes," Farmar said. "I would work all offseason with that hope, that goal in mind.

"But it never happened. And I understand, Fish was there and obviously it was his job, so I just had to respect that and try to do the best I could in the minutes I did get. But I can't say I wasn't frustrated at times, because I'm a competitor and I wanted to contribute more."

Next season, he may finally get that chance.

Hicks
07-04-2010, 02:07 PM
Why would he choose us over New York?

vnzla81
07-04-2010, 02:11 PM
Why would he choose us over New York?

because he likes the pacers coaching staff and the direction were this team is going ................. :shrug:

OakMoses
07-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Why would he choose us over New York?

New York hasn't contacted him yet, to my knowledge. The Pacers and Portland are the teams that he's talked to so far.

Also, New York has a much better chance of signing someone like Felton than we do.

There's also a reported David Lee/Minnesota love affair going on, so one of the many Minne PG's could be headed to NY.

DrFife
07-04-2010, 02:50 PM
Why would he choose us over New York?

I imagine New York will land a bigger "fish" (not name Derek :p).

NapTonius Monk
07-04-2010, 04:47 PM
Would Portland be a good fit? The ball would be in Brandon Roy's hands more than his. New York might be ok, but as someone stated before, they're probably looking for a bigger name than Farmar. I think Indiana would be his best fit, of the three teams mentioned.

MrSparko
07-04-2010, 05:02 PM
If he wants basically the same role he has now then Portland would be a good fit. If he wants to prove he can be a more traditional point guard then the Pacers are a better fit. (Even with O'Brien's no point guard offense he'd still handle the ball here more than with Brandon Roy as previously mentioned.)

Anthem
07-04-2010, 07:23 PM
There's also a reported David Lee/Minnesota love affair going on
That makes no sense. Lee/Love? Lee/Jefferson?

pwee31
07-04-2010, 07:42 PM
That makes no sense. Lee/Love? Lee/Jefferson?

This is Kahn we're talking about. The same guy that just signed Darko 4 years 20 million.

Anthem
07-04-2010, 08:57 PM
This is Kahn we're talking about. The same guy that just signed Darko 4 years 20 million.
That's even worse. You've got Darko/Love/Jefferson. Going after Lee makes no sense.

McKeyFan
07-04-2010, 10:14 PM
There's also a reported David Lee/Minnesota love affair going on, so one of the many mini Minne PG's could be headed to NY.

Fixed.

McKeyFan
07-04-2010, 10:15 PM
I just don't want a player named Far-Marr.

Sounds goofy.

BPump33
07-04-2010, 10:47 PM
I just don't want a player named Far-Marr.

Sounds goofy.

If he does sign here he will become "Farmer" to fans within weeks...

jeffg-body
07-05-2010, 02:35 AM
I like Farmar myself and if we could get him to agree to one year tryout to run the show for the P's why not? It was not his fault that he was stuck behind Fish, who is an ironman and never missed any games hardly.

I can understand people if they were to say he sucked badly, but he has never been given the reigns to a team and told to "lead" them. If we take this attitude towards players we never would have gotten JO in the first place. Before we judge him, let's give the kid some kind of a chance.

Anthem
07-05-2010, 06:36 AM
I like Farmar myself and if we could get him to agree to one year tryout to run the show for the P's why not?
He's not looking for a 1-year deal.

pizza guy
07-05-2010, 07:09 AM
That makes no sense. Lee/Love? Lee/Jefferson?

Minnesota.

Signing a one year deal is a waste of time. It's got to at least be a team option on a 2nd year. That way he has an honest chance to prove himself and the Pacers have an honest chance at extending/keeping him if he shows well as a starter. In a one-year deal, Farmar and the Pacers both lose, IMO.

--pizza

indygeezer
07-05-2010, 07:39 AM
One year deal.....two reasons I can see. Give the player a chance to showcase himself for a year after either being hidden behind an All-star type player or to allow both the player and mgmnt a chance to start fresh with the new CBA next year.

pizza guy
07-05-2010, 07:43 AM
But the trouble is that there's no commitment to the player, which would discourage some from choosing to play here instead of another team. More important is that if the player does show well, and is only signed to a one-year deal, then he walks and all we got was a tease.

--pizza

AustinWind
07-05-2010, 07:47 AM
If Farmar comes in, can we fix his ears first? They've got to impacting his speed on the fast break.

MLB007
07-05-2010, 10:42 AM
Why would he choose us over New York?

Why would he choose NY over us?
With all due lack of respect for the past few seasons, this organization is a lot less messed up than the Knicks.

pwee31
07-05-2010, 12:11 PM
For one, the Knicks are getting ready to sign Amare. 2nd, you have a coach that will let you push it and run and gun. 3rd you're in a big market and playing in MSG. 4th the Knicks are likely offering more then a 1 year deal. Finally, he just left LA, so why not see what New York has to offer

MLB007
07-05-2010, 02:30 PM
For one, the Knicks are getting ready to sign Amare. 2nd, you have a coach that will let you push it and run and gun. 3rd you're in a big market and playing in MSG. 4th the Knicks are likely offering more then a 1 year deal. Finally, he just left LA, so why not see what New York has to offer

Maybe.
Or maybe not.
Not everyone is enraptured of NY.
They've made LOTS of moves the past few years.
None of them seem to work too well.
How is Amare a huge deal?
We have a much more balanced core of young players.(IMO)
We are also a playoff team with a decent pg. (and all the players back healthy)