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View Full Version : What would you give up to get Carmelo?



odeez
06-30-2010, 01:07 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67597/20100630/nuggets_might_be_willing_to_trade_carmelo/

I put this thread up with the thought of why would you ever let a player like Carmelo go anywhere? I guess the Nuggets are being proactive indeed. The Nuggets have offered an extension, but Melo has been sitting with it for awhile with no word. So I thought I would ask you here at PD what would you give up to get him? Would you want him at all?

Kegboy
06-30-2010, 01:09 PM
In a vacuum, anything. But of course, one would have to weigh the risk of him leaving when his contract up, which is pretty massive.

Dr. Awesome
06-30-2010, 01:10 PM
Nothing.

The Nuggets won't trade him.
He will cost too much.
He will leave when his contract is up.

odeez
06-30-2010, 01:11 PM
In a vacuum, anything. But of course, one would have to weigh the risk of him leaving when his contract up, which is pretty massive.

Right, so I should add signing him to an extension would be a must in any deal.

odeez
06-30-2010, 01:11 PM
Nothing.

The Nuggets won't trade him.
He will cost too much.
He will leave when his contract is up.

ok

BRushWithDeath
06-30-2010, 01:12 PM
Right, so I should add signing him to an extension would be a must in any deal.

If you can sign him to an extension, you give them anything they want. Just like if you can sign Chris Paul to an extension.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 01:33 PM
Anyone really think Melo would sign long term here? The chances of that happening are similar to the chances Kravitz writes an insightful Pacers article or Conrad Brunner is critical of the team. So that said a 1 yr rental of Anthony is no appealing at all.

odeez
06-30-2010, 01:36 PM
Anyone really think Melo would sign long term here? The chances of that happening are similar to the chances Kravitz writes an insightful Pacers article or Conrad Brunner is critical of the team. So that said a 1 yr rental of Anthony is no appealing at all.

I know right, I thought of that when posting the thread. But then I thought anything is possible...dreaming I know!

Stryder
06-30-2010, 01:40 PM
Carmello wouldn't play in indiana.

CableKC
06-30-2010, 01:41 PM
I wouldn't give up anything.

IMHO....he's a decent Franchise Player but not a great one. He's the equivalent of Paul Pierce to the Celtics. Pierce was always a very solid All-Star level Player that never really got over the Playoff hump until Ray Allen and KG showed up. With the Nuggets, Carmello was always a great Player to have on the Team...but the Nuggets never really got over whatever hump they were stuck on until Billups showed up.

Personally, I think he's a very solid Player....better in some respects than Granger...but not a Player that I would say that I would give up the farm to get. I'd rather use whatever assets that would cost us to get a Player like Carmello and continue to build around Granger.

d_c
06-30-2010, 01:49 PM
I wouldn't give up anything.

IMHO....he's a decent Franchise Player but not a great one. He's the equivalent of Paul Pierce to the Celtics. Pierce was always a very solid All-Star level Player that never really got over the Playoff hump until Ray Allen and KG showed up. With the Nuggets, Carmello was always a great Player to have on the Team...but the Nuggets never really got over whatever hump they were stuck on until Billups showed up.

Personally, I think he's a very solid Player....better in some respects than Granger...but not a Player that I would say that I would give up the farm to get. I'd rather use whatever assets that would cost us to get a Player like Carmello and continue to build around Granger.

Melo, like Pierce, is a multiple time all-star. Before the Nugz acquired him, they were a bottom dweller. With him, they have been a playoff team every single season (and that was before acquiring Billups). He's never missed playoffs in his career. Granger can't make a claim like that.

He's a better player than Granger and if the Nugz ever offered him straight up for Granger, the Pacers would have to do that in a second. I don't understand how someone can say that they wouldn't build around Carmelo because he's very good but not great, yet they would build around Granger, who is older and not as good as Carmelo.

Sollozzo
06-30-2010, 02:00 PM
I wouldn't give up anything.

IMHO....he's a decent Franchise Player but not a great one. He's the equivalent of Paul Pierce to the Celtics. Pierce was always a very solid All-Star level Player that never really got over the Playoff hump until Ray Allen and KG showed up. With the Nuggets, Carmello was always a great Player to have on the Team...but the Nuggets never really got over whatever hump they were stuck on until Billups showed up.

Personally, I think he's a very solid Player....better in some respects than Granger...but not a Player that I would say that I would give up the farm to get. I'd rather use whatever assets that would cost us to get a Player like Carmello and continue to build around Granger.


Can't you say that about any "franchise player", even the great ones (which I think Melo is)?

Look at the Lakers with Kobe in between the Shaq and Gasol years: They missed the playoffs the first year and couldn't make it out of the first round the next two. Kobe led the league in scoring those last two years and was pretty much the epitome of a "franchise player", yet they weren't able to get over the hump until Gasol showed up, kind of like the Nuggets didn't become an elite team until Billups arrived....

Look at the Heat with Wade: He has a spectacular season year after year yet Miami hasn't done anything except miss the playoffs and get eliminated in the first round since they won the title in 06. Yet I think every NBA fan would consider Wade a "great" franchise player...

Look at the Cavs with Lebron: In 07, he was able to get them out of a very weak Eastern Conference. But once teams like Boston and Orlando became elite he couldn't get out of the east, mainly because the Cavs just don't have the personal to beat those teams in a playoff series.

I think he's better than Granger in pretty much every aspect of the game. You can win a title with Carmello Anthony as your best player - he just needs some solid pieces around him like any other elite star. Can you say that about Granger though? He hasn't even been able to lead a team to the postseason. Like DC pointed out, Melo has been to the playoffs *every* season, leading some not-so-spectacular Denver teams to the playoffs in the loaded west.

As to the original question posed in the thread: I wouldn't trade anything for Carmello right now because he would bolt in a heartbeat next summer. We'd have to give up the farm to get him here right now so he wouldn't have much to play with here and would no doubt be eager to leave in 2011. Then we would be left with absolutely nothing.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 02:17 PM
Melo, like Pierce, is a multiple time all-star. Before the Nugz acquired him, they were a bottom dweller. With him, they have been a playoff team every single season (and that was before acquiring Billups). He's never missed playoffs in his career. Granger can't make a claim like that.

He's a better player than Granger and if the Nugz ever offered him straight up for Granger, the Pacers would have to do that in a second. I don't understand how someone can say that they wouldn't build around Carmelo because he's very good but not great, yet they would build around Granger, who is older and not as good as Carmelo.

Sorry, I just completely disagree. If Melo signed an extension I would be all for it. But like I said, Melo would never sign long term in Indiana. If we gave up Granger for Melo we would be giving up 3 more years of Granger (with the real possibility of him extending) for a one year rental of Melo (with no chance he would extend).

I don't think anyone would argue who the better player is. The long term betterment of the franchise is without question though.

Pacers2012
06-30-2010, 02:18 PM
Carmelo is not going to sign with indiana unless we throw a max deal at him and can show him that he would put us over the hump making us a contender. He is 26 an is in his prime. Just like LBJ if he doesn't win a ship in denver this year then he will feel the need to go to a contender or a team with better supporting cast. If he wants to be the featured player on a team and win a ship then he better find that team next year. If he doesn't find that team then he could end up like ray allen and paul pierce. Needing other stars to get him a ship. He will most likely team up with the team that doesn't get 2 of this years top FAs. Lets say the Nets only get Amare or Bosh. Melo would be there Ace in the hole in 2011. Same goes for the Knicks and Bulls.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 02:25 PM
Carmelo is not going to sign with indiana unless we throw a max deal at him and can show him that he would put us over the hump making us a contender. He is 26 an is in his prime. Just like LBJ if he doesn't win a ship in denver this year then he will feel the need to go to a contender or a team with better supporting cast. If he wants to be the featured player on a team and win a ship then he better find that team next year. If he doesn't find that team then he could end up like ray allen and paul pierce. Needing other stars to get him a ship. He will most likely team up with the team that doesn't get 2 of this years top FAs. Lets say the Nets only get Amare or Bosh. Melo would be there Ace in the hole in 2011. Same goes for the Knicks and Bulls.

The thing is we wouldn't be the only team offering Carmelo the max. I don't think that would change things at all.

Tom White
06-30-2010, 02:29 PM
Melo, like Pierce, is a multiple time all-star. Before the Nugz acquired him, they were a bottom dweller. With him, they have been a playoff team every single season....

Thanks in large part to Billups!

My own answer would be that I would not give much. I'm just not a fan of his.

Pacers2012
06-30-2010, 02:43 PM
The thing is we wouldn't be the only team offering Carmelo the max. I don't think that would change things at all.

I prob wasn't as clear as i should have been. We would not be able to get Melo. Many teams can give him a max deal not all can be contenders. Pacers wouldnt be a contender right away. Maybe 2013 at the soonest we could be a contender baring that JOB is gone. God i hope He is gone after this year. I rather have Mark Jackson as our coach and he hasn't even coached yet.

pizza guy
06-30-2010, 02:50 PM
I'd love to have 'Melo, and would probably give Denver whatever they wanted for him. Odds are he'll resign in Denver from what I've heard, so if he were traded to Indy, what makes you think there's no way he'd stay? It's not like Denver is Miami or LA in terms of night life or whatever. Besides, with all these other teams having cleared cap space for this offseason, we're going to be one of the few with a crap load of space next offseason. If we're able to hold on to a couple nice pieces here to have around 'Melo going forward in the weaker East, maybe he likes his chances to at least get to the Finals here.

I'm not saying it would happen that way, only that it's not entirely inconcievable to think it could happen that way.

That being said, it's a pretty risky move. If there was a way to know ahead of time that he would extend his deal and stay here, it'd be a HUGE step to getting this franchise back on the map. You'd be getting a legitimate super star that would put you in contention every year, and would put more butts in the seats than we've seen in five years. Also, with his star power, you may be able to lure in a PG that can win.

I imagine we'd have to trade Granger, Rush, Murphy's contract, and probably more. I'm not a whiz with the contracts and numbers like some of you, so I'm just putting out a hypothetical here. If that's what we give up, I'd do it right now and then proceed to wine and dine 'Melo every night til he extends with us. If those players were the ones leaving and we could keep Hibbert, George, and Hans, then add 'Melo and Point Guard X, that's a team that would probably be able to compete.

I'd do it and pray like crazy he'd stay.

--pizza

d_c
06-30-2010, 02:51 PM
Thanks in large part to Billups!

My own answer would be that I would not give much. I'm just not a fan of his.

Melo made the playoffs in each of his first 5 seasons in the league with no Billups.

pizza guy
06-30-2010, 02:57 PM
Even if it is a one-year rental, I'd still have to think about it. I mentioned that 'Melo is going to put butts in seats, and this franchise could use that maybe more than anything right now. Then if he walks after this season, we've still got crazy cap space to do something with, and we try to hitch our cart to another star, or multiple stars.

I think if you're looking at the financials here, it's almost got to be worth it. And from a competitive standpoint, would you rather go through this year without any more changes and try to see what happens next year? Or, go through this year with 'Melo and see what happens next year?

This isn't like trading Artest for Peja. We were not going to get anything out of Artest, so we dumped him and got nothing out of Peja, and he bolted. Even if 'Melo bolts, we're still going to get something out of him for a season, that better than whatever we're going to get from whoever we trade.

--pizza

PaceBalls
06-30-2010, 03:12 PM
I think he is the best player in the NBA besides Lebron and Kobe. I would do whatever it takes. Of course, that includes an extension. It would be great to have him around for a season, but it would hurt... bad... to see him leave.

I can see how the Nuggets would think about doing a trade now if they were sure Carmello was leaving. Better to get something out of a deal instead of just cap space.

Also he is a restricted free agent next year, and the Pacers will be one of the few teams able to spend the money for a max deal.

BornReady
06-30-2010, 03:25 PM
It'd be nice, but we do have a pletora of swingmen already...

odeez
06-30-2010, 03:39 PM
It'd be nice, but we do have a pletora of swingmen already...

We have no one on the wing that is as good as Melo... in any deal you are going to move some of those players. If there is not room, you make it for a player like Melo, no doubt.

pacers74
06-30-2010, 03:41 PM
Not gonna happen. End this thread.

vnzla81
06-30-2010, 03:45 PM
Not gonna happen. End this thread.

+ 10000000


end this thread

odeez
06-30-2010, 03:47 PM
Not gonna happen. End this thread.

Great attitude dude, yeah let's end all threads that aren't going to happen! We wouldn't have much to talk about now would we? :rolleyes:

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 03:52 PM
D*mn shame. Everyone is more concern about him not wanting to sign for Indiana then whether or not he would be good fit. How do you know he wouldn't sign with Indiana, since it would be in a "weaker" conference? Heck, if I was a Superstar player, I would sign with a Eastern Conference team, because I would get tired of battling the other 50+ win teams year after year after year.

pacergod2
06-30-2010, 04:08 PM
I would give up anything for Melo. He is a better basketball player than LeBron, IMO.

I would love to see him here. I wonder if he could exclsuively play PF for us. If not, we would have to figure out a way to get he and Granger on the floor together.

pizza guy
06-30-2010, 04:23 PM
I would give up anything for Melo. He is a better basketball player than LeBron, IMO.

I would love to see him here. I wonder if he could exclsuively play PF for us. If not, we would have to figure out a way to get he and Granger on the floor together.

While that would be a tremendous problem to have, if we traded for 'Melo, Granger would have to be in the deal.

--pizza

joew8302
06-30-2010, 04:33 PM
I would give up anything for Melo. He is a better basketball player than LeBron, IMO.

I would love to see him here. I wonder if he could exclsuively play PF for us. If not, we would have to figure out a way to get he and Granger on the floor together.

Umm sorry, Melo is not better than Lebron.

#31MillerTime
06-30-2010, 04:37 PM
Ok. Who really believes we can get Carmello. 1. Who are we going to give for the Nuggets?? Miswell give em our WHOLE team! 2. Where are we going to get that kind've money cause Im sure he is not cheap!

pacergod2
06-30-2010, 05:21 PM
Umm sorry, Melo is not better than Lebron.

Yeah, I don't agree with too many of your opinions either.

Day-V
06-30-2010, 05:23 PM
I like Carmelo way more in the clutch than LeBron, that's for sure.

grace
06-30-2010, 05:25 PM
I was going to say the change in my purse, but that's too much money.

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 05:46 PM
I was going to say the change in my purse, but that's too much money.

Man, that's cold, :laugh:.

CableKC
06-30-2010, 05:53 PM
Melo, like Pierce, is a multiple time all-star. Before the Nugz acquired him, they were a bottom dweller. With him, they have been a playoff team every single season (and that was before acquiring Billups). He's never missed playoffs in his career. Granger can't make a claim like that.

He's a better player than Granger and if the Nugz ever offered him straight up for Granger, the Pacers would have to do that in a second. I don't understand how someone can say that they wouldn't build around Carmelo because he's very good but not great, yet they would build around Granger, who is older and not as good as Carmelo.
JMHO. I know that Carmelo is better then Granger ( I said that in my post )...I'm just not all that impressed with him.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 06:02 PM
Yeah, I don't agree with too many of your opinions either.

Cool. Unlike your posts mine are just not random shots from the hip with no numbers or analysis to back it up. Saying Carmelo is better than Lebron is just lunacy.

Over their careers the only edge Anthony has over Lebron is averaging .21 fewer turnovers per game and he is a better free throw shooter by 6 percentage points.

Lebron scores more than Carmelo, rebounds more than Carmelo, more than doubles Carmelo in assists, shoots the 3 better than Carmelo and has a higher fg% than Carmelo

LBJ has also made it further in the playoffs than Carmelo despite not having played with a PG near the level of Billups.

You probably don't like my posts because they are based on sense and reasoning. You would probably prefer more off the wall comments that have no factual base or inkling of practicality. Believe Carmelo is better than Lebron all you want, in fact shout it out on this board. At least that way you will do others a favor in allowing them to see how foolish it is and skip your posts.

d_c
06-30-2010, 06:05 PM
JMHO. I know that Carmelo is better then Granger ( I said that in my post )...I'm just not all that impressed with him.

Guy is one of the most versatile scorers in the league. And he's done it year after year with a high degree of consistency despite being the focus of opponents' defenses every night and facing double/triple teams since the first game of his rookie season. He gets to the line about 8 times a game, takes the hits and is still fairly durable.

What about him doesn't impress you? That he isn't as good as Lebron or Kobe or can't carry a franchise to a title? If that's what it takes to impress, then there are only a handful of players in the league worthy of being impressed by.

I can understand that some people might be turned off by his persona or whatever, but the guy is a heck of a basketball player.

Kegboy
06-30-2010, 06:06 PM
I was going to say the change in my purse, but that's too much money.

Spoken by somebody with a team worth a damn.

pacergod2
06-30-2010, 07:41 PM
Cool. Unlike your posts mine are just not random shots from the hip with no numbers or analysis to back it up. Saying Carmelo is better than Lebron is just lunacy.

Over their careers the only edge Anthony has over Lebron is averaging .21 fewer turnovers per game and he is a better free throw shooter by 6 percentage points.

Lebron scores more than Carmelo, rebounds more than Carmelo, more than doubles Carmelo in assists, shoots the 3 better than Carmelo and has a higher fg% than Carmelo

LBJ has also made it further in the playoffs than Carmelo despite not having played with a PG near the level of Billups.

You probably don't like my posts because they are based on sense and reasoning. You would probably prefer more off the wall comments that have no factual base or inkling of practicality. Believe Carmelo is better than Lebron all you want, in fact shout it out on this board. At least that way you will do others a favor in allowing them to see how foolish it is and skip your posts.

Yes... that. That right there. I probably don't have much respect on this board for "sense and reasoning". Are those things you would consider in defining "moderateness"?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moderateness

Carmelo is more versatile than LeBron is.

You can have all the stats you want. When LBJ has the ball in his hands 95% of the offensive possessions I would hope his stats are "better". The offense in Denver runs through Billups. Carmelo scores more proficiently than Lebron does, because his offensive moves are more than put my head down, charge into the lane bulling over defenders and getting the call. Carmelo has back to the basket moves, including an unstoppable step back jumper. Carmelo's biggest deficiency in his game was his defense, mainly because he didn't care to play it, but he has improved that so significantly over the last two years, that I put him in Lebron's stratosphere. I think LBJ will struggle a lot more than Carmelo will later in their careers because of the way they play the game. I think Lebron is the most overrated basketball player ever. I think he is easily the most gifted athlete in the NBA. I think Carmelo is a better basketball player. Carmelo is a better passer as well. I think a lot of LBJ's assists come off of bailout plays and initial passes in the offense. I think that Carmelo's assists have more substance, coming off of double teams and are in the flow of the offense.

My response was harsh, but for the exact same reason that you pointed out here, "Unlike your posts mine are just not random shots from the hip with no numbers or analysis to back it up."

Your initial response to me was, "Umm sorry, Melo is not better than Lebron."

Pardon my ignorance, but how was your original response full of "numbers or analysis to back it up"?

joew8302
06-30-2010, 10:04 PM
Yes... that. That right there. I probably don't have much respect on this board for "sense and reasoning". Are those things you would consider in defining "moderateness"?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moderateness

Carmelo is more versatile than LeBron is.

You can have all the stats you want. When LBJ has the ball in his hands 95% of the offensive possessions I would hope his stats are "better". The offense in Denver runs through Billups. Carmelo scores more proficiently than Lebron does, because his offensive moves are more than put my head down, charge into the lane bulling over defenders and getting the call. Carmelo has back to the basket moves, including an unstoppable step back jumper. Carmelo's biggest deficiency in his game was his defense, mainly because he didn't care to play it, but he has improved that so significantly over the last two years, that I put him in Lebron's stratosphere. I think LBJ will struggle a lot more than Carmelo will later in their careers because of the way they play the game. I think Lebron is the most overrated basketball player ever. I think he is easily the most gifted athlete in the NBA. I think Carmelo is a better basketball player. Carmelo is a better passer as well. I think a lot of LBJ's assists come off of bailout plays and initial passes in the offense. I think that Carmelo's assists have more substance, coming off of double teams and are in the flow of the offense.

My response was harsh, but for the exact same reason that you pointed out here, "Unlike your posts mine are just not random shots from the hip with no numbers or analysis to back it up."

Your initial response to me was, "Umm sorry, Melo is not better than Lebron."

Pardon my ignorance, but how was your original response full of "numbers or analysis to back it up"?

Hillarious. I guess the reason Kobe Bryant is better than Derek Fisher just because he has the ball in his hands more, right? Sound logic. The reason I didn't mention stats in my first post is because I figured every logic, semi NBA fan would realize Lebron is better. Apparently I underestimated you, my bad. Like I said in my second post every bit of logic and facts back up my point.

And you are honestly going to argue Lebron scores the ball less proficiently than Carmelo? Are you sure you know the meaning of the word proficient? Lebron gets to the line more, shoots better from the field and better from 3 point range? You like Carmelo better, I get that, and thats fine. But you are wrong here.

You also argue Carmelo is a better passer than Lebron? What on earth do you base that on? Lebron- 7 assists per game; Carmelo- 3.1 assists per game. Carmelo's assist to turnover ration is almost exactly 1:1. Lebron's is better than 2:1. What exactly do you base this on? Again more off the hip stuff that no statistical measure could back up.

Carmelo's assists have more substance? That makes no sense whatsoever.

And if Carmelo is better than Lebron how come he hasn't got to the finals? I mean he has played with an all NBA PG and can't get to the same point that the inferior James has got to? Makes sense.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 10:26 PM
They are different players. Lebron is more of a playmaker and Carmello is more of pure scorer. What use is it sticking up for your guy??

So Lebron scores more than Carmello even though he isn't a pure scorer and Carmello is? That is pretty self explanatory.

PaceBalls
06-30-2010, 10:29 PM
So Lebron scores more than Carmello even though he isn't a pure scorer and Carmello is? That is pretty self explanatory.

whatever...

BornReady
06-30-2010, 10:44 PM
So Lebron scores more than Carmello even though he isn't a pure scorer and Carmello is? That is pretty self explanatory.

I'd argue that Carmelo is far more well rounded than Lebron is in scoring. This is what you get out of Lebron: either a freight train bulldoze to the basket for a layup or dunk, a long 2, or a 3. Lebron has NO postup game and his midrange game isn't particularly stellar, two things that Carmelo do FAR better.

MrSparko
06-30-2010, 10:46 PM
I'd argue that Carmelo is far more well rounded than Lebron is in scoring. This is what you get out of Lebron: either a freight train bulldoze to the basket for a layup or dunk, a long 2, or a 3. Lebron has NO postup game and his midrange game isn't particularly stellar, two things that Carmelo do FAR better.

All Shaq ever did in his prime was score from a foot or closer to the basket. I would take him over Richard Hamilton 7 days a week.

BornReady
06-30-2010, 10:47 PM
All Shaq ever did in his prime was score from a foot or closer to the basket. I would take him over Richard Hamilton 7 days a week.

I wasn't talking about either Shaq or Rip...

joew8302
06-30-2010, 10:53 PM
I'd argue that Carmelo is far more well rounded than Lebron is in scoring. This is what you get out of Lebron: either a freight train bulldoze to the basket for a layup or dunk, a long 2, or a 3. Lebron has NO postup game and his midrange game isn't particularly stellar, two things that Carmelo do FAR better.

I can respect that. I don't agree at all Lebron has no postup game or Carmelo is more well rounded, but I hear you.

My point wasn't to say Lebron is better in every area than Carmelo. I even acknowledged the turnovers and ft%.

My point was, which I had previously thought was as obvious as night and day, that Lebron was a superior player to Carmelo.

And you say Carmelo is a more well rounded scorer than Lebron, and Lebron still scores more and with greater efficiency. These are the points I was trying to make.

MLB007
06-30-2010, 11:07 PM
I've never seen anything that made me want him on my team badly. He's a drop dead assassin scorer for sure. But he's a gunner of the first degree and doesn't do a lot else. Also was a bit of a head case, at least at first.
Don't know if he's mellowed. :)

He was surrounded with a pretty nice team so I don't think I'd put their playoff run entirely on his shoulders. In fact they were close to moving him several times over the first 2 or 3 years.

spazzxb
06-30-2010, 11:33 PM
Danny has a reasonable contract that doesn't need built around. He is a piece of the puzzle to which equal parts can still be added.


Melo, like Pierce, is a multiple time all-star. Before the Nugz acquired him, they were a bottom dweller. With him, they have been a playoff team every single season (and that was before acquiring Billups). He's never missed playoffs in his career. Granger can't make a claim like that.

He's a better player than Granger and if the Nugz ever offered him straight up for Granger, the Pacers would have to do that in a second. I don't understand how someone can say that they wouldn't build around Carmelo because he's very good but not great, yet they would build around Granger, who is older and not as good as Carmelo.

spazzxb
06-30-2010, 11:42 PM
Danny has a reasonable contract that doesn't need built around. He is a piece of the puzzle to which equal parts can still be added.


Melo, like Pierce, is a multiple time all-star. Before the Nugz acquired him, they were a bottom dweller. With him, they have been a playoff team every single season (and that was before acquiring Billups). He's never missed playoffs in his career. Granger can't make a claim like that.

He's a better player than Granger and if the Nugz ever offered him straight up for Granger, the Pacers would have to do that in a second. I don't understand how someone can say that they wouldn't build around Carmelo because he's very good but not great, yet they would build around Granger, who is older and not as good as Carmelo.

BornReady
06-30-2010, 11:42 PM
I can respect that. I don't agree at all Lebron has no postup game or Carmelo is more well rounded, but I hear you.

My point wasn't to say Lebron is better in every area than Carmelo. I even acknowledged the turnovers and ft%.

My point was, which I had previously thought was as obvious as night and day, that Lebron was a superior player to Carmelo.

And you say Carmelo is a more well rounded scorer than Lebron, and Lebron still scores more and with greater efficiency. These are the points I was trying to make.

oh haha
in that case
you are correct
no matter how much i hate lebron
being a pacers fan and spending 4 years of school in cleveland will do that to you :D

joew8302
06-30-2010, 11:47 PM
oh haha
in that case
you are correct
no matter how much i hate lebron
being a pacers fan and spending 4 years of school in cleveland will do that to you :D

Tell me about it. I have lived in Ohio for 25 years and was always a Pacer fan. My first year in college was Lebron's Sr year in high school. At that time I think Cleveland won 18 games behind Milt Palacio, Ricky Davis and Jumaine Jones. Many of the people at Bowling Green that were originally from Cleveland wouldn't even claim the Cavs when I brought them up. Fast forward a few years later to the Wizards/Cavs playoff series the same people who wouldn't acknowledge the Cavs now have banners hanging out there windows, bobbleheads and 8 different jerseys.

I feel your pain brother.

#31MillerTime
06-30-2010, 11:49 PM
Honestly I wouldnt give anything up for Mello.

Day-V
06-30-2010, 11:51 PM
So Lebron scores more than Carmello even though he isn't a pure scorer and Carmello is? That is pretty self explanatory.

Actually no, that does make sense.

I think someone just mentioned it, Lebron's best weapon on offense is simply steamrolling down the lane and either A.) Drawing a foul or B.) Finish Strong at the rim. The Jumpshot is really not in his primary arsenal.While his shooting has gotten significantly better over the years, I still think 'Melo has better range and can score from different areas on the floor.

I also think Carmelo is a better clutch player than LeBron, mainly because in a close game with about 3 minutes left, the refs are eating those whistles (most of the time) and LeBron bulldozing into a crowd of 3 defenders won't draw a foul. Carmelo, on the other hand, seems to amp his game up when a game draws to a close and it's time to put it away.

Overall I think it's obvious that LeBron is the better player, but 'Melo is the better scorer.

But then again, this is just my opinion.

joew8302
06-30-2010, 11:53 PM
Actually no, that does make sense.

I think someone just mentioned it, Lebron's best weapon on offense is simply steamrolling down the lane and either A.) Drawing a foul or B.) Finish Strong at the rim. The Jumpshot is really not in his primary arsenal.While his shooting has gotten significantly better over the years, I still think 'Melo has better range and can score from different areas on the floor.

I also think Carmelo is a better clutch player than LeBron, mainly because in a close game with about 3 minutes left, the refs are eating those whistles (most of the time) and LeBron bulldozing into a crowd of 3 defenders won't draw a foul. Carmelo, on the other hand, seems to amp his game up when a game draws to a close and it's time to put it away.

Overall I think it's obvious that LeBron is the better player, but 'Melo is the better scorer.

But then again, this is just my opinion.

Good deal. Just one question, if Carmelo has better ranger how does LBJ have a better 3 pt%?

imawhat
06-30-2010, 11:56 PM
If we could guarantee him being here, I'd give up our best 2 players and a 1st round draft pick.

It's very likely that we don't contend without a player at Carmelo's level. He's light years better than any current Pacer.

IF Carmelo gets traded, I believe the Pacers may have the pieces to pull it off. Denver's not looking for cap room; they're looking for as much talent as possible. We've got a very good player under a good contract (Granger) and an up and coming player under a very good contract (Hibbert).

Day-V
07-01-2010, 12:08 AM
Good deal. Just one question, if Carmelo has better ranger how does LBJ have a better 3 pt%?

The 3 Point shot is more of a focal point for Lebron than Carmelo. Lebron went 129/387 while 'Melo went only 59/187. Lebron took a full 200 more 3's than Melo. I think my personal definition for range is different then what everyone else defines it as. That's my mistake right there.

When I said that I believe Melo had more range I meant that he had the ability indeed to hit the 3, but he can also hit the Kevin Garnett/Rik Smits-esque mid-range jumpers and long-range 2's, and he can hit it from anywhere on the floor.

When I think of LeBron, I think of a guy with 2 moves: The Drive and the 3. While I'm sure he does do other things, those seem to be his go-to moves. With Carmelo, I see a guy that can score inside, score outside, score from the top of the key, the post, the baseline, corner, so on and so forth.

pacergod2
07-01-2010, 08:50 AM
The 3 Point shot is more of a focal point for Lebron than Carmelo. Lebron went 129/387 while 'Melo went only 59/187. Lebron took a full 200 more 3's than Melo. I think my personal definition for range is different then what everyone else defines it as. That's my mistake right there.

When I said that I believe Melo had more range I meant that he had the ability indeed to hit the 3, but he can also hit the Kevin Garnett/Rik Smits-esque mid-range jumpers and long-range 2's, and he can hit it from anywhere on the floor.

When I think of LeBron, I think of a guy with 2 moves: The Drive and the 3. While I'm sure he does do other things, those seem to be his go-to moves. With Carmelo, I see a guy that can score inside, score outside, score from the top of the key, the post, the baseline, corner, so on and so forth.


And those are the SKILLS that will make Carmelo a better player when their athleticism declines.

Lebron is an all-world athlete. He needs to become a better basketball player in order to win a championship. He got to the finals in a very weak east. The nuggets made it to the WCF and lost to the Lakers last year. I would say the Lakers have a much better front court than the Nuggets do. Nene is solid and KMart is a beast, but lacks any kind of offensive versatility. They were outmatched by a much better team, just like the Cavs were in their LONE trip to the finals.

If I wasn't on the road for work and had more time, I would be coming up with stats that would help my argument, but I prefer Carmelo as a basketball player. I also prefer Kobe Bryant as well, but that makes me an idiot because Lebron's stats are SOOOO much better than Kobe's it isn't even debatable.

And I know exactly what proficient means. I used that word on purpose.