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View Full Version : Honest Question: How Many Games Have You Seen Paul George Play?



BRushWithDeath
06-30-2010, 09:05 AM
Nearly everybody seems really excited about Paul George. Simple question. How many times have you seen George play? Youtube highlight videos don't count. I know T-Bird was able to get game tapes on him and liked him so that is a plus but doesn't satisfy me completely as it seems to have for many of you. It's scary to me that I've seen both our second rounders play more games than George. I'm confused how people can be so sure we made a good pick without having a clue what we're getting.

Trader Joe
06-30-2010, 09:09 AM
Who cares, he has sweet dunks in sweet highlight vids with sweet music. Just like Shawne Williams did in 2006 when half the board was saying how Shawne would end up better than Granger. That's all that really matters right?

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 09:11 AM
I have seen him play less than zero times. more like -2.

duke dynamite
06-30-2010, 09:12 AM
-6

EDIT: Darn it, Unclebuck! You thwarted my attempt to be humorous.


Nearly everybody seems really excited about Paul George. Simple question. How many times have you seen George play? Youtube highlight videos don't count. I know T-Bird was able to get game tapes on him and liked him so that is a plus but doesn't satisfy me completely as it seems to have for many of you. It's scary to me that I've seen both our second rounders play more games than George. I'm confused how people can be so sure we made a good pick without having a clue what we're getting.


With no disrespect, I think you are trying to make a fire out of an ant hill here. I think the overall consensus is that everyone is excited that we have a player that shows potential right out of the jug, instead of us having to squeeze it out of him like an orange.

Brad8888
06-30-2010, 09:18 AM
I doubt that virtually anyone here has had an opportunity to see any full games. That is why we are blessed to have T-Bird, Seth, and a couple of others who take the time to both gather info on who is available to draft, and then break down that player's game into terms the rest of us can understand. Most of us know how our opinions compare to Seth and T-Bird when it comes to how the Pacers play, and can extrapolate from there to determine how much faith we each put in their far more informed opinions. That is why I am confident that Paul George is the real deal, and I suspect I am not alone.

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 09:38 AM
-6

EDIT: Darn it, Unclebuck! You thwarted my attempt to be humorous.




With no disrespect, I think you are trying to make a fire out of an ant hill here. I think the overall consensus is that everyone is excited that we have a player that shows potential right out of the jug, instead of us having to squeeze it out of him like an orange.

Timing is everything

Day-V
06-30-2010, 09:42 AM
Goose Egg.

smj887
06-30-2010, 10:04 AM
Never seen him play, but he has two first names so he will be good. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Ray Allen, and now... Paul George.

Swish
06-30-2010, 10:08 AM
Why would you want to rain on any of our parades? What the hell else do we have to look forward to but the hope that maybe we stole a good player at #10? Why would you want to take that hope away from anyone? So you can look cool on the internet?

And, too, how many games have YOU seen him play? How can you know that he WON'T be what some on the board say?

Hicks
06-30-2010, 10:11 AM
I doubt that virtually anyone here has had an opportunity to see any full games. That is why we are blessed to have T-Bird, Seth, and a couple of others who take the time to both gather info on who is available to draft, and then break down that player's game into terms the rest of us can understand. Most of us know how our opinions compare to Seth and T-Bird when it comes to how the Pacers play, and can extrapolate from there to determine how much faith we each put in their far more informed opinions. That is why I am confident that Paul George is the real deal, and I suspect I am not alone.

This plus what I've read or heard away from PD.

I may have not ever been to any given obscure island nation on the planet, but if I read a few solid articles on it from people who have, I think I would have at least some idea of what it is like.

*edit*

And that's not to say I'm part of the "George = superstar!!" group. I'm not because he's got to show me what he's got @Conseco before I even begin to entertain something like that. I just like what I heard, enough that I think he might be pretty good, and I'm excited to see him in a Pacers uniform for that reason. That doesn't mean I'm sitting here "knowing" what he will or will not be. No one does. We can only try to gleam possibilities based on what is currently knowable about the guy.

Drewtone
06-30-2010, 10:12 AM
I hadn't even heard his name until I read T-Bird's writeup on him, which made me excited about getting him. I'll stand by that until proven true or otherwise on the court.

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 10:22 AM
Zero, but I read enough articles that I'm comfortable with the pick. I'm just glad that Bird took a chance. Let's hope that he becomes the next Lottery Superstar outside of the Top 3 ala Kobe Bryant. Youtube videos are alright, as long as you know what you're looking for. The main thing that impressed me was his body control.

MyFavMartin
06-30-2010, 10:24 AM
How many games did people see of Danny before he got drafted?

graphic-er
06-30-2010, 10:26 AM
The guy works out with Danny, doesn't that count for something?

Kegboy
06-30-2010, 10:45 AM
Never seen him play, not even clips. I'm concerned that he wasn't great for a bad team in the WAC, and that "experts" have labeled him high-risk, high-reward. But Tbird likes him, so I'll give him a chance.

Really, my problem isn't with him, per se, but the idea of getting another wing when that's the last thing we need. If TPTB felt he was BPA, that's fine, it wasn't like I was enamored with anyone else available. Except Trade McTraderstein, I had a good feeling about him.

Trader Joe
06-30-2010, 10:48 AM
How many games did people see of Danny before he got drafted?

I watched him utterly dominate every game of the MWC tourney that year. He made Bogut look like a child.

bellisimo
06-30-2010, 10:50 AM
I know many people are asking if Paul is Shawne 2.0...but i always thought that Shawne had the skills to become a good player in the NBA - it was all of his off-court things that kept him from reaching his potential...IMHO that is. :)

and if Paul is similar to the talent of Shawne without the off court distractions...he should be a solid player in the future...

Hicks
06-30-2010, 10:52 AM
College sophomore Danny Granger's team went 12-18 in the Missouri Valley. Just saying.

Kegboy
06-30-2010, 11:01 AM
College sophomore Danny Granger's team went 12-18 in the Missouri Valley. Just saying.

Yeah, and he put up 19/8 and shot over 50%. Bad team doesn't bother me, bad team where people say you're not carrying your weight does.

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 11:09 AM
Yeah, and he put up 19/8 and shot over 50%. Bad team doesn't bother me, bad team where people say you're not carrying your weight does.

OK, but at what point do you say that because his teammates were so bad and because the opponent focused all their defense to guard paul George, that caused his poor FG%. And still the coach would rather george shoot a contetested shot as opposed to a teammate shoot a wide-open shot.

Because that is pretty much what Paul's coach told Dan Dakich last week.


You put 4 of us on the court with Lebron James against NBA teams and the defenses will focus so much on Lebron that his shooting % will drop

naptownmenace
06-30-2010, 11:12 AM
How many games did people see of Danny before he got drafted?

That's what I was thinking. I never saw any games that Kobe, KG, TMac, Dwight Howard, or Amare played in either.

jhondog28
06-30-2010, 11:20 AM
My issue is not with Paul George as the pick, my issue is the first coach he will have in the NBA is JOB. My confidence in JOB putting him in a position to succeed is not very high.

ksuttonjr76
06-30-2010, 11:37 AM
OK, but at what point do you say that because his teammates were so bad and because the opponent focused all their defense to guard paul George, that caused his poor FG%. And still the coach would rather george shoot a contetested shot as opposed to a teammate shoot a wide-open shot.

Because that is pretty much what Paul's coach told Dan Dakich last week.


You put 4 of us on the court with Lebron James against NBA teams and the defenses will focus so much on Lebron that his shooting % will drop

I don't know about that. I can shoot a mean 3 :D.

Trader Joe
06-30-2010, 12:00 PM
College sophomore Danny Granger's team went 12-18 in the Missouri Valley. Just saying.


And who's to say how Danny's career would have turned out if he was drafted into the NBA after his sophomore year?

Oh, and the Mo Valley is much stronger than the WAC.

BRushWithDeath
06-30-2010, 12:01 PM
That's what I was thinking. I never saw any games that Kobe, KG, TMac, Dwight Howard, or Amare played in either.

Every single one of those guys listed came out of high school so it's quite different. And yet I'd still seen more of Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire pre-NBA than I did of Paul George, a college sophomore. I watch a lot of college basketball. I'd seen Danny Granger completely dominate the MWC Tourney on his way to MVP honors as a senior. I saw his NCAA tournament game against Nova. He was a first team all conference selection in a far better conference than Paul George. Granger was the runner-up for conference player of the year to NBA number 1 draft choice and All-Star Andrew Bogut. If George finished second to Luke Babbitt I wouldn't have a problem with it. But he didn't. He didn't even make first team which consists of such luminaries as Jahmar Young, Adrian Oliver, Jared Quayle, and Taj Wesley along with the aforementioned Babbitt. Also, when was the last time a lottery pick who spent more than 1 year in college never led his team to the NCAA tournament? Is it Ike Diogu? That worked out well.

Trader Joe
06-30-2010, 12:02 PM
OK, but at what point do you say that because his teammates were so bad and because the opponent focused all their defense to guard paul George, that caused his poor FG%. And still the coach would rather george shoot a contetested shot as opposed to a teammate shoot a wide-open shot.

Because that is pretty much what Paul's coach told Dan Dakich last week.


You put 4 of us on the court with Lebron James against NBA teams and the defenses will focus so much on Lebron that his shooting % will drop

UB, what do you expect his coach to say? Of course, he is going to make excuses for why Paul's %'s are low, he wants people (recruits) to buy into good players coming to Fresno State and succeeding.

I can't think of a more biased source on Paul George than his coach, probably his mom, but that's just about it.

Sollozzo
06-30-2010, 12:31 PM
UB, what do you expect his coach to say? Of course, he is going to make excuses for why Paul's %'s are low, he wants people (recruits) to buy into good players coming to Fresno State and succeeding.

I can't think of a more biased source on Paul George than his coach, probably his mom, but that's just about it.


It's still a legitimate observation regardless of who's saying it.

Isaac
06-30-2010, 12:40 PM
I have actually seen Paul George play one game in February against Nevada. It was on ESPNU and I decided to tune in to watch Nevada for tournament prediction time.

I was unfamiliar with Paul George before that game, but I definitely made a note of him after seeing him light up the Wolfpack for 26/9 with 17 free throw attempts. I was impressed.

Mr_Smith
06-30-2010, 12:52 PM
I've never seen him play.....i've only seen highlights of him on youtube.

millertime90
06-30-2010, 12:59 PM
Who cares, he has sweet dunks in sweet highlight vids with sweet music. Just like Shawne Williams did in 2006 when half the board was saying how Shawne would end up better than Granger. That's all that really matters right?

and i'm guessing you are one of the "0"s, which gives you the right to criticize and compare george to one of the pacers biggest draft busts correct? afterall, a few highlight videos and some heresay is all that really matters in forming a negative opinion on a guy right?

BPump33
06-30-2010, 01:06 PM
Wow, it is pretty crazy that 90% of us haven't seen our #10 pick play a single game in college.

I hope he's good because he's now a Pacer, but I can't say with any doubt that he will be, just like most of us can't.

We all just have to hope at this point and trust in the TPTB. Some of us will have an easier time with that than others.

Unclebuck
06-30-2010, 01:21 PM
UB, what do you expect his coach to say? Of course, he is going to make excuses for why Paul's %'s are low, he wants people (recruits) to buy into good players coming to Fresno State and succeeding.

I can't think of a more biased source on Paul George than his coach, probably his mom, but that's just about it.

Sure, I expect his coach to put the best spin on whatever he says about his former player. But the coach could have used a different explanation to explain away the poor shooting %. So I guess I put some weight in what he is saying.

maragin
06-30-2010, 01:28 PM
I don't follow college ball. Unless they're in the Final Four, I won't have seen a guy play. The good news is, the Pacers pay guys to watch the games, and then bring them in for workouts. With summer league coming up, my number will change from zero.

I also never saw Rik Smits play a game before we drafted him.

Kegboy
06-30-2010, 01:29 PM
OK, but at what point do you say that because his teammates were so bad and because the opponent focused all their defense to guard paul George, that caused his poor FG%. And still the coach would rather george shoot a contetested shot as opposed to a teammate shoot a wide-open shot.

Because that is pretty much what Paul's coach told Dan Dakich last week.

You put 4 of us on the court with Lebron James against NBA teams and the defenses will focus so much on Lebron that his shooting % will drop

That's valid. But again, my issue is that people who would know better than me saying he didn't play to the level of his talent.

Looking at his game log, that 0-fer against San Jose St. looks bad. Yes, you should never judge a player by one game, but if he's easily the best guy I'd like to at least see a little more fight in that line. Maybe that game shows how bad his teammates really are, but in this instance on paper I'd like to see more out of a top-10 pick.

I haven't seen the guy, so I'm just gonna drop it. That's why I've stayed out of the threads about him. I'll just say there are some valid concerns here, and those who are already saying he's gonna make the all-rookie team and we should trade productive players to make room for him might want to temper their enthusiasm.

Slick Pinkham
06-30-2010, 01:47 PM
Don't get too down on the relatively low profile of the school.

Just about nobody saw Scottie Pippen play at Central Arkansas, Karl Malone at Louisiana Tech, or Steve Nash at Santa Clara either.

If you have the talent, the scouts will find you.

Swish
06-30-2010, 01:59 PM
Wow, it is pretty crazy that 90% of us haven't seen our #10 pick play a single game in college.

I hope he's good because he's now a Pacer, but I can't say with any doubt that he will be, just like most of us can't.

We all just have to hope at this point and trust in the TPTB. Some of us will have an easier time with that than others.

It's not really that surprising. He comes from a West Coast school. Most of us live in the Eastern half of the country. I would venture a guess a majority of us don't get to see a lot of PAC-10 basketball, let alone much West Coast small school games.

The thing is, the people who HAVE seen him play all seem to like him. That's enough for me.

Taterhead
06-30-2010, 02:01 PM
I've seen George play 4 times. I recently moved back to Indy from AZ and he was on TV a few times against teams from around there. He is good, no doubt about it. But he does have some inexperience playing on the wing. It's my understanding he was a C in high school. That is a big transition for a player on the offensive end.

I think the sky is the limit. Look at his numbers from his freshman season. His shooting percentages from the floor were stellar (47% 2FG; 45% 3FG). However he shot below his ability from the line (70%). So fast forward to his sophomore season. He obviously works on his free throw shooting, upped it to 90% on many more attempts. However his shooting from the field dipped as opposing coaches were more aware of his abilities. I don't think it is alarming at all. He was BY FAR their best player. And everybody knew it.

I like the kid. I think one aspect of his game that will come into play in the NBA is his previous experience at C. He is very comfortable with his back to the basket. And if he moves to the big guard, he is gonna be a tough cover for anyone at that position down low with his height and length. He is a work in progress though. But I think he will show his potential very early and be a good player from the jump.

Just the fact he came out of college after 2 years at a very weak program playing a position completely different from what he was used to in HS and impressing enough to become a top ten pick in a fairly strong draft is enough for me though.

Hicks
06-30-2010, 04:09 PM
Don't get too down on the relatively low profile of the school.

Just about nobody saw Scottie Pippen play at Central Arkansas, Karl Malone at Louisiana Tech, or Steve Nash at Santa Clara either.

If you have the talent, the scouts will find you.

This, plus it sounds like he's just only starting to become who he's going to be out on the floor.

Isn't the word that he was a CENTER in high school and started out as a post guy in college? The fact that he even looks so much like a wing this soon is slightly remarkable to me.

So since he even looked as good as he did so soon from that position (2/3) gives me some optimism. Obviously the $1,000,000 question is: Will he continue to improve out on the wing? Scouts (not all, but a significant amount) seem to see potential for a lot of growth. We'll have to wait and see.

Allegedly he looked pretty good during his workouts against other wings, and many do see a lot of potential in him. Given the potential and how new he is at even playing the position, maybe he's just now starting to blossom and that's why he wasn't hotter stuff at the time? If we're lucky (and no one knows right now how this will go), we might have snagged him at just the right time to watch him blossom in a Pacers uniform. Maybe.

imawhat
07-01-2010, 12:23 AM
I'm nervous, but my nervousness comes mainly from everyones' expectations of George.

The general consensus seems to be that Brandon Rush is expendable because of George. Ironically, most people's expectations of Brandon were way too high after the end of his rookie season. Now Brandon goes out and plays quality basketball and we're calling for his head.

90% of this board has never seen Paul play...probably even more than that. I'm glad to be optimistic, but I'm going to wait until I've seen him play a few times before I get too excited or too down. I hope Pacers fans give him a chance, rather than expecting a ton out of him because he was a #10 pick and some journalist wrote a risky column.

15th parallel
07-01-2010, 12:54 AM
I haven't watch any of his games, but his skills shown on some highlight plays and workouts plus his physical attributes are really what intrigues me. For his size, he can simply post up smaller guards to create inside or attract defense to open up space for our bigs or outside shooters to operate. He also looks athletic enough to create his own offense even without mismatches.

In JOB's style of play, I really believe Paul-Danny combo will really work offensively, just like the Mike-Danny combo before. Hopefully there will be a much better defense since Paul is much more athletic and physically-gifted than Dun.

cdash
07-01-2010, 12:57 AM
Honestly, the thing that makes me most excited about George? Not the sweet dunks, the athleticism, or any of that. 90% from the FT line. Shows he has a nice stroke.

Putnam
07-01-2010, 07:41 AM
I haven't seen any games with Paul George play at all. Nor have I seen any college games with any players for any team in the past 30 years who wasn't, A) a Ball State Cardinal, B) a Georgetown Hoya, C) playing against one or the other of those teams, or D) in an NCAA final four game.


Still, I'm pretty confident and satisfied with the pick. With all due respect to Thunderbird, Seth, Kegboy and others on this forum who watch college ball and have serious and valid opinions, there is a better basis for approving Paul George now that we've got him.

The Pacers' staff of full-time coaching and scouting professionals like Paul George enough to choose him. Isn't that good enough? Even if I weren't a complete dunce about college ball, I'd accept the team's pick over my own hunches and biases.

MLB007
07-01-2010, 11:55 AM
Honestly, the thing that makes me most excited about George? Not the sweet dunks, the athleticism, or any of that. 90% from the FT line. Shows he has a nice stroke.

+1 - First thing that raised my eyebrows. That's a REAL shooter fellas.
90% AND those hops and length................
And despite some cracks about his form, his outside shot looks REALLY comfortable and effortless regardless of range.

I just hope he's "hoops smart" because he's got the rest. The lack of dominating statistics can be solely his lack of help from the rest of the team and being the target of every defense AND/OR a lack of feel for the game. Where to get the ball and how to recieve it and such.
I really hesitate to bring up the name, but... uhhhh. JBender looked REALLY good in the highlight films too. :D

LoneGranger33
07-01-2010, 02:44 PM
I've never seen the guy play, but I am led to believe that 1) Danny Granger has and 2) Danny Granger liked what he saw. That was reassuring enough to me that I don't automatically draw parallels to the Shawne Williams draft when I think of him.

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 02:51 PM
I'm just going to take Mystery Scout and TBirds word on saying he's a beast. They've done much more homework on these guys than Jay Bilas, JVG, Stuart Scott, etc.

The 2nd team All Wac thing does make me doubt him sometimes however.

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 02:54 PM
Every single one of those guys listed came out of high school so it's quite different. And yet I'd still seen more of Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire pre-NBA than I did of Paul George, a college sophomore. I watch a lot of college basketball. I'd seen Danny Granger completely dominate the MWC Tourney on his way to MVP honors as a senior. I saw his NCAA tournament game against Nova. He was a first team all conference selection in a far better conference than Paul George. Granger was the runner-up for conference player of the year to NBA number 1 draft choice and All-Star Andrew Bogut. If George finished second to Luke Babbitt I wouldn't have a problem with it. But he didn't. He didn't even make first team which consists of such luminaries as Jahmar Young, Adrian Oliver, Jared Quayle, and Taj Wesley along with the aforementioned Babbitt. Also, when was the last time a lottery pick who spent more than 1 year in college never led his team to the NCAA tournament? Is it Ike Diogu? That worked out well.

What do you think his role is on a good team when he is at his peak? Just curious.

Psycho T
07-01-2010, 04:32 PM
Zero.

Never heard of him to be honest.

BRushWithDeath
07-01-2010, 06:26 PM
What do you think his role is on a good team when he is at his peak? Just curious.

I don't have a clue. It could be Tracy McGrady for all I know. It could also be James White. Everything is in play with George. He could be awesome. He could be miserable. I can't say because I've never seen him play and that frightens me.

I'm leaning closer to the White end of the spectrum than the McGrady end based simply on his not being viewed as a top player in his decidedly weak league.

There seemed to be some high expectations for him among the board and I'm trying to understand where they come from. Based the fact that nearly everyone has never seen him play, I'm still confused.

I understand that there are people out there who will take the fact that the Pacers thought he was worthy of being a top-10 pick as enough. I thought Hansbrough was a terrible pick this time last year, despite the front office telling me different, because I'd seen him play upwards of 100 times, 7 of them in person prior to his selection. Nothing I saw last year told me my assumption was wrong.

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong about Hansbrough just as I am about George. But I honestly can't remember the last time I haven't seen a 2 year college player that turned out to be a top 10 pick. I watch a ton of college basketball. Even Diogu, who like George never made the tournament, was a well known player in college who'd I'd seen multiple times as an amateur. I wouldn't be nearly as apprehensive if George had made the first team All-WAC or carried his team a little better than their record suggests.

For the record, I'm also not saying this pick is a terrible one like I did a year ago. There was nobody at 10 that I thought was worthy of the pick. I'm sure they tried like crazy to get out of that spot to no avail. I'm simply attempting to get a handle on why people think he's going turn out so great.

BringJackBack
07-01-2010, 07:05 PM
I don't have a clue. It could be Tracy McGrady for all I know. It could also be James White. Everything is in play with George. He could be awesome. He could be miserable. I can't say because I've never seen him play and that frightens me.

I'm leaning closer to the White end of the spectrum than the McGrady end based simply on his not being viewed as a top player in his decidedly weak league.

There seemed to be some high expectations for him among the board and I'm trying to understand where they come from. Based the fact that nearly everyone has never seen him play, I'm still confused.

I understand that there are people out there who will take the fact that the Pacers thought he was worthy of being a top-10 pick as enough. I thought Hansbrough was a terrible pick this time last year, despite the front office telling me different, because I'd seen him play upwards of 100 times, 7 of them in person prior to his selection. Nothing I saw last year told me my assumption was wrong.

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong about Hansbrough just as I am about George. But I honestly can't remember the last time I haven't seen a 2 year college player that turned out to be a top 10 pick. I watch a ton of college basketball. Even Diogu, who like George never made the tournament, was a well known player in college who'd I'd seen multiple times as an amateur. I wouldn't be nearly as apprehensive if George had made the first team All-WAC or carried his team a little better than their record suggests.

For the record, I'm also not saying this pick is a terrible one like I did a year ago. There was nobody at 10 that I thought was worthy of the pick. I'm sure they tried like crazy to get out of that spot to no avail. I'm simply attempting to get a handle on why people think he's going turn out so great.

The high expectations obviously came from hope of change. Hope of not stubborn decisions in the FO, a pick for the fans, a future star picked from potential. We see guys that aren't good in college like Jrue Holiday, Russell Westbrook, Daniel Orton, Derrick Favors to be more modern.

The main thing that I want to know is how is he in a one-on-one situation. How is he going to do when his number is called? Russell obviously figured out the differences between the two different games of college and NBA.

This is probably one of the more intriguing situations I have been in as a basketball fan. I would give him a pass for their team not winning if he was getting triple teamed, but we do not know if that is true or not. I don't know if he has Jordan Crawford bad shot selection. I wish that I konw what I could get, and the strangest part is that he was a back to basket ballplayer last year.

Rupert Stilinski
07-02-2010, 04:02 PM
and i'm guessing you are one of the "0"s, which gives you the right to criticize and compare george to one of the pacers biggest draft busts correct? afterall, a few highlight videos and some heresay is all that really matters in forming a negative opinion on a guy right?

BRushWithDeath speaks a lot truth in this thread. I hope George comes in and kicks butt, just as much as the next guy, but there seem to be a lot of people putting their eggs in the George basket. He's a complete mystery. The fact that 90% of this board, of avid basketball fans, has not seen a single game he has played is incredibly concerning. The high school and foreign born players are completely different situations so those examples make for a bad comparison.

I don't know how anyone can say, "well now it's time to dump the underachieving Rush, we got this stud George!" I've seen a lot of that. Well we at least know that Rush is an NBA player right now. Who knows if that is the case with George. I'm going to wait until he has actually played a real game, against real opponents before closing the book on him, either way. But just as was the case with Hansbrough, until he proves me wrong, his selection seems somewhat dubious.